{"id":7141,"date":"2013-04-10T12:19:36","date_gmt":"2013-04-10T16:19:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?p=7141"},"modified":"2013-04-10T12:19:53","modified_gmt":"2013-04-10T16:19:53","slug":"can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html","title":{"rendered":"Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

And speaking of sparing feelings without pulling punches<\/a>, there\u2019s been a donnybrook going between\u00a0Tom McDonald<\/a>\u00a0(Catholic)\u00a0and Hemant Mehta<\/a>\u00a0(atheist) and JT Eberhard<\/a> waded in yesterday. \u00a0I\u2019m not planning to tag in exactly, but I would like to suggest that they have a slightly\u00a0different<\/em> fight.<\/p>\n

Both Tom\u2019s original post mocking atheism and Hemant and JT\u2019s rejoinder seemed pitched particularly to their own sides, so, even though the posts got pretty heated, it has kind of the effect of a flurry of haymakers that \u00a0don\u2019t actually land but certainly go\u00a0whoooosh<\/em>.<\/p>\n

This all started on April Fools day, when Tom called on Catholics to reach out to atheist friends, but the language he used strikes me (pre- and post-conversion) as a little more than kin and a little less than kind, if you know what I mean.<\/p>\n

Go ahead and hug an atheist today. They need it. They live lives of sad desperation caught in a meaningless universe and protest that they\u2019re happy because they see things \u201cas they really are\u201d and are free to enjoy life as it is, and then disappear into the dust and relieve an already overcrowded world of yet another sentient meatbag\u2026<\/p>\n

What they need isn\u2019t atheism. What they need is what atheism can never offer. Charity. Faith. Hope\u2026<\/p>\n

Atheists offer people an attractive lie: the world all there is, so you might as well just enjoy it. In other words, they look at a broken world, say it can be no product of a loving and omnipotent God, and therefore urge people to just embrace it as is.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

There are a number of things I disagree with in Tom\u2019s essay, and I tend to disagree with the phrasing of what I do agree with. \u00a0 For one thing, just because it might be\u00a0true<\/em> to say that people can\u2019t be fully happy without God doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s persuasive or helpful. \u00a0Heaven knows that I was a very unsuccessful math evangelist when I walked around essentially asserting that everyone had a number theory-shaped hole in their heart. \u00a0They might not realize how much they were missing out on\u00a0now<\/em>, but after the scales fell from their eyes, they\u2019d wonder how they could have ever gone so long without feeling a little twinge whenever they thought of the\u00a0Fibonacci\u00a0sequence<\/a>. (\u201cYou know, you can think of almost everything as a math problem\u2026<\/a>\u201c)<\/p>\n

However, even though I am a\u00a0very<\/em> trustworthy person, I couldn\u2019t always to get people to take math classes purely on my say-so. \u00a0Even though I was in fact correct that learning math infuses the world with structure and beauty! \u00a0And I would have been quite wrong to tell my friends that, despite their subjective experience, they were\u00a0actually<\/em> unhappy, since they were missing out on a way to appreciate the world. \u00a0To convince them, I needed to show them some math (possibly Martin Gardner<\/a>, possibly\u00a0Flatland<\/a><\/em>).<\/p>\n

So, if you\u2019re trying to\u00a0show<\/em>, not\u00a0assert<\/em> that Christianity fills some kind of gap, there are a lot of ways to approach it. \u00a0You could make a philosophical case that you do\u00a0feel<\/em> happiness\/charity\/ethics\/etc, but you can\u2019t ground them without God (try The Last Superstition<\/a><\/em>). \u00a0You could try to get more specific on exactly what you\u2019re talking about when you talk about Agape (The Four Loves<\/em><\/a>).<\/p>\n

But I suspect you actually want art, not apologetics. \u00a0It might be best to invite your friend over for a viewing of\u00a0Of Gods and Men<\/em><\/a>. \u00a0And then go over to their place the next weekend for a film of their choosing and more discussion and desserts in a \u201cHow ought we love?\u201d film festival. \u00a0But I think opening up that conversation takes time and trust. \u00a0Both of which are in short supply online.<\/p>\n

Mind you, I don\u2019t usually pull off this kind of patience, even with friends. \u00a0I\u2019ve more than once gone on lecturing too long, and then, after the room had cleared, turn to the friend that remains and said plaintively, \u201cWhy can\u2019t I just\u00a0shake<\/em> people into loving math? \u00a0They\u2019ll \u00a0like it when I win!\u201d \u00a0(It worked about as well for me as for Toby<\/a>). \u00a0After all, the first piece of evidence that people see for what math does for me is the way I behave when I pitch it.<\/p>\n

There\u2019s been a lot of invective in response to Tom\u2019s post, and, rather than set off a new round, I\u2019d be interested in hearing from JT, Hemant, and Tom (if they\u2019re interested) how they try and convince a good friend that they\u2019ve been missing out on math or classical music or philosopy or whatnot. \u00a0And then if everyone wants to go the art-as-apologetics route, I\u2019d be glad to host another symposium<\/a>.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

And speaking of sparing feelings without pulling punches, there\u2019s been a donnybrook going between\u00a0Tom McDonald\u00a0(Catholic)\u00a0and Hemant Mehta\u00a0(atheist) and JT Eberhard waded in yesterday. \u00a0I\u2019m not planning to tag in exactly, but I would like to suggest that they have a slightly\u00a0different fight. Both Tom\u2019s original post mocking atheism and Hemant and JT\u2019s rejoinder seemed pitched […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":127,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[7,6,5],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-7141","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-apologetics","category-atheism","category-debatetactics"],"yoast_head":"\nCan We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"And speaking of sparing feelings without pulling punches, there's been a donnybrook going between\u00a0Tom McDonald\u00a0(Catholic)\u00a0and Hemant Mehta\u00a0(atheist) and\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"And speaking of sparing feelings without pulling punches, there's been a donnybrook going between\u00a0Tom McDonald\u00a0(Catholic)\u00a0and Hemant Mehta\u00a0(atheist) and\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Unequally Yoked\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2013-04-10T16:19:36+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2013-04-10T16:19:53+00:00\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Leah Libresco\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html\",\"name\":\"Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2013-04-10T16:19:36+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2013-04-10T16:19:53+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\"},\"description\":\"And speaking of sparing feelings without pulling punches, there's been a donnybrook going between\u00a0Tom McDonald\u00a0(Catholic)\u00a0and Hemant Mehta\u00a0(atheist) and\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/can-we-play-not-nicely-better-please.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Can We Play Not-Nicely Better, Please?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/\",\"name\":\"Unequally Yoked\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/17ee17592b35b40040d5f5f7ea5ab464\",\"name\":\"Leah Libresco\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/20e1e6a3a94c4e7928687804a41d888d?s=96&d=mm&r=r\",\"caption\":\"Leah Libresco\"},\"description\":\"Leah is the author of Arriving at Amen and Building the Benedict Option. 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