{"id":7173,"date":"2013-04-09T18:07:09","date_gmt":"2013-04-09T22:07:09","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/?p=7173"},"modified":"2013-04-09T18:07:09","modified_gmt":"2013-04-09T22:07:09","slug":"am-i-enabling-blasphemy","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/unequallyyoked\/2013\/04\/am-i-enabling-blasphemy.html","title":{"rendered":"Am I enabling blasphemy?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

While the commenting\u00a0system<\/em> changes over, some disputes in the\u00a0content<\/em> of the comments stay the same. \u00a0And there was a recent tete-a-tete I\u2019d think needs a post worth of response. \u00a0In Cam\u2019s reply\/objection<\/a> to Scott\u2019s essay on suffering and optimal search strategies<\/a>, Cam went through a couple of the usual objections to theodicy and then exclaimed:<\/p>\n

Why are there multiple types of suffering? Is your deity a sadistic fuckhead? Let\u2019s accept all of the arguments offered by the author. This entire system could theoretically be satisfied by say, one type of physical pain and one type of mental pain. Yet your deity apparently got creative with the varieties of pain he dishes out. Ineffecient at best, unbelievably monstrous at worst.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

And then comment begat comment begat this exchange:<\/p>\n

Guest:<\/a><\/strong> \u201cIs your deity a sadistic fuckhead?\u201d \u00a0<\/em>This is why atheists shouldn\u2019t be on a Catholic forum. Most of you have no clue how to speak with even minimal civility let alone respect.<\/p>\n

Me:<\/a><\/strong> That is not a difficulty that is unique to atheists.<\/p>\n

Guest:<\/a> <\/strong>Perhaps not, but to allow such vile blasphemy to stand on a Catholic blog would be reprehensible. I expect to see such filth on the atheist forum which is why I don\u2019t go there. I don\u2019t see why Catholics should be assaulted by it on a ostensibly Catholic blog.<\/p>\n

Cam:<\/a><\/strong> We can phrase evil ideas in superficially polite language, such as in the original post where even the worst of suffering is declared to be the good work of a creature who has the author\u2019s support, just as noble ideas can be expressed with impolite language. I\u2019m more interested in goodness than civility, and I checked the comment policy, but will moderate my language if that\u2019s Leah\u2019s request<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

So, let me clarify how I feel about blasphemy. \u00a0I don\u2019t care if commenters insult people\/entities\/gods they don\u2019t believe exist. \u00a0What matters to me is how you treat the people you think are\u00a0real<\/em>. \u00a0(Yes, this gives\u00a0solipsists\u00a0a bit of a pass on nastiness, but\u00a0solipsism hardly compensates. \u00a0And who\u00a0wants<\/em> license to be unpleasant in the first place?)<\/p>\n

The content of Cam\u2019s objections are not uncommon (if they were, we wouldn\u2019t have needed the word theodicy in the first place). \u00a0I don\u2019t object to him raising them here, and I don\u2019t think they\u2019re a threat to discourse or to people\u2019s faith. \u00a0(Or rather, if they\u2019re the\u00a0appropriate<\/em> kind, born out of a good faith flinch away from human suffering. \u00a0Would it really be preferable to be indifferent to the ways the world seems\u00a0wrong<\/em> and neglect that feeling Lewis described as being made for another world?<\/a>)<\/p>\n

My objection (and not at all a strong enough one to use moderator coercion) is to Cam\u2019s language. \u00a0I don\u2019t have a no swearing rule, but I think it tends to backfire, even when it\u2019s being used for deliberate, rhetorical effect (i.e. how can you be more upset about my swearing than the thing I\u2019m swearing about?<\/a>). \u00a0It gives the people you\u2019re talking to an excuse to tune out.<\/p>\n

Just like water takes the path of least resistance to the sea, arguments tend to settle for the rebuttal of least effort. \u00a0Once you give people the opportunity to complain about your cussin\u2019, you\u2019ve taken them of the hook on the content of your original theodicy question.<\/p>\n

This blog isn\u2019t meant to be a\u00a0safe<\/em> space for Catholicism. \u00a0It\u2019s supposed to be a safe space for argument seeking truth (and I believe that Catholicism is the truth that turns up). \u00a0So raise all the theology questions you like, but, as long as you\u2019re not agnostic about the existence (and therefore human dignity) of your interlocutors, try to ask them with charity and kindness. \u00a0When someone storms away, it\u00a0feels<\/em> like a\u00a0forfeit, but you haven\u2019t actually won their heart or mind.<\/p>\n

I think civility should be treated basically they way that Lewis treats modesty in Mere Christianity<\/a><\/em>.<\/p>\n

A girl in the Pacific islands wearing hardly any clothes and a Victorian lady completely covered in clothes might both be equally \u201cmodest,\u201d proper, or decent, according to the standards of their own societies\u2026When people break the rule of propriety current in their own time and place, if they do so in order to excite lust in themselves or others, then they are offending against chastity. But if they break it through ignorance or carelessness they are guilty only of bad manners. When, as often happens, they break it defiantly in order to shock or embarrass others, they are not necessarily being unchaste, but they are being uncharitable: for it is uncharitable to take pleasure in making other people uncomfortable.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Sometimes we cause each other pain in debate inadvertently. \u00a0That\u2019s understandable when people are working from radically different assumptions. \u00a0I have friends that it is difficult to argue with, because I find their (in good faith) arguments so horrifying. \u00a0But I trust that they\u2019re trying to do the minimum possible harm, and that their goal is to strike at my beliefs, not at me. \u00a0Charity makes it easier to stay engaged in an intense argument; it doesn\u2019t mean pulling your punches.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

While the commenting\u00a0system changes over, some disputes in the\u00a0content of the comments stay the same. \u00a0And there was a recent tete-a-tete I\u2019d think needs a post worth of response. \u00a0In Cam\u2019s reply\/objection to Scott\u2019s essay on suffering and optimal search strategies, Cam went through a couple of the usual objections to theodicy and then exclaimed: […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":127,"featured_media":7175,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[5],"tags":[188,50],"class_list":["post-7173","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-debatetactics","tag-comment-policy","tag-problems-of-evil"],"yoast_head":"\nAm I enabling blasphemy?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"While the commenting\u00a0system changes over, some disputes in the\u00a0content of the comments stay the same. \u00a0And 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