{"id":11361,"date":"2023-02-07T08:59:48","date_gmt":"2023-02-07T14:59:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/?p=11361"},"modified":"2023-05-17T13:21:35","modified_gmt":"2023-05-17T19:21:35","slug":"the-zen-center-model-is-broken-excerpt-from-further-zen-conversations","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2023\/02\/the-zen-center-model-is-broken-excerpt-from-further-zen-conversations.html","title":{"rendered":"The Zen Center Model is Broken: Excerpt from “Further Zen Conversations”"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>
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In the fall, I met with Rick McDaniel for an interview for his new book, <\/span>Further Zen Conversations<\/span><\/a>. Rick has published a bunch of really good books about Zen in recent years (<\/span>click here<\/span><\/a> for more). He\u2019s such a skilled interviewer that I encouraged him to start a podcast (but that\u2019s not his thing).\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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His reason for wanting to talk with me this time was what we\u2019re doing with the Vine of Obstacles Zen, but to get warmed up, I opened up about my views on what I call the \u201cZen Center Model\u201d \u2013 in short, how it does not generally fulfill it\u2019s promise of offering awakening to householders and so there is a great need for alternatives.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n
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There are monasteries in the US like <\/span>Korinji<\/span><\/a> that offer serious training, of course. However, what we\u2019re doing with the Vine of Obstacles Zen is focussed on offering serious Zen training for householders. I\u2019ll soon be offering more about that here \u2013 another excerpt from later in this interview with Rick.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Below, however, you\u2019ll find a slightly different version, a bit spicier, of the excerpt that appears in <\/span>Further Zen Conversations<\/span>, Chapter 7: Looking Forward. This is the \u201cless polished\u201d version and I\u2019ve expanded on a few points too. In what follows, Rick\u2019s voice is in the narrator role and my voice is in quotes.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Click here<\/a> to support my Zen teaching practice at Patreon of which translations and writings like this are one facet. You will also find an advertisement free version of this post there.<\/em><\/strong><\/span><\/h4>\n<\/div>\n
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Chapter Excerpt<\/span><\/h2>\n<\/div>\n
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The pioneers who brought Zen to North America were familiar with essentially two models, the temple and the monastery. Monasteries were training institutions for people seeking formation as monks and nuns. Temples served the spiritual needs of \u201chouseholders.\u201d The most common form of Zen institution in North America today is neither of these; it is the Zen Center, a uniquely Western construct, a place for lay practice \u2013 whether Soto, Rinzai, or Sanbo Zen \u2013 with or without a focus on awakening and the integration of awakening in one\u2019s life.<\/span><\/div>\n
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Once again Dosho puts the matter in a historical perspective.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cAs far as I know, in all the cultures in Asia before the 20th century there was a two-track system where the monastics \u2013 men and women living in monasteries \u2013 were the specialists, some sub-group of those were really focused on awakening in this lifetime. And then householders, who maybe attended temple services, were generally considered either not interested or not able put the kind of time and energy into waking up that was necessary. Their contribution was to support the specialists and receive merit for doing so.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cThen with the 20th century, a number of things were happening worldwide, some of them specific to Buddhism<\/a>, but one is the collapse of monasticism for various reasons. And at the same time, fortunately, lots of householders became interested in contemplative traditions including Zen. And then this new iteration on an old thing developed \u2013 the idea of \u2018neither monk nor householder,\u2019 which went back twelve hundred years to Saicho, but hadn\u2019t ever really fully taken off.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cWhen people like Suzuki Roshi and Katagiri Roshi came to California in the mid-20th century, what they started with at Sokoji was a traditional kind of Japanese temple. And then all these hippies started coming in who actually wanted to sit. And Suzuki Roshi was, like, \u2018Yeah. This is it. These are the people who are actually neither monk nor householders.\u2019 And so they created this new model for rigorously training lay people.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cThe model caught on. Every place it spread did it a little bit differently, but they all basically did the same thing \u2013 serious Zen training for householders. There were few antecedents for this in Asia. Meanwhile, growth of monastic practice in the West has been much slower. Today, after 60 years or so of Zen in the West, there are fewer than ten monasteries and most are experiencing declining participation.\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n
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But back to the \u201860\u2019s. Young Americans were taking up what had been essentially a monastic practice, but doing so as what in Buddhist<\/a> parlance is called \u201chouseholders.\u201d It was a way, in Dosho\u2019s view, \u201cto resolve the contradiction between the promise of awakening and the difficulty of it. So the early Zen pioneers came up with this new model, the Zen Center model for householders \u2013 primarily \u2013 who wanted to wake up and who were interested in and able to devote a lot of time and energy to the project. That was the Zen Center model. San Francisco, Rochester, ZCLA, Minnesota \u2013 Katagiri Roshi\u2019s Minnesota Zen Center \u2013 all monastic or quasi-monastic. So, you know, through the late \u201970s and \u201980s, when I was at the Minnesota Zen Center before Katagiri Roshi died, we were doing something like three or four hours a day of practice plus having jobs. Plus ten hours on Saturdays. Plus monthly sesshin. And this was not unusual. This was the standard for Zen Centers at the time.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cOf course there were some problems with the model. Marriages. Kids. Careers. So it really pushed what was possible for householders, sometimes too far. In most groups today there\u2019s a general kind of gentling due to cultural influences and new cultural values about balance and success in the contemporary economy. So Zen Centers have become less like training centers and more like churches where people come once or twice a week for an hour or two, and that\u2019s often all the practice they do. They are still called \u201cZen Centers,\u201d premised on the capacity for awakening, and often with a backstory that includes the great awakenings of many of our great ancestors, but almost no Zen Center in the country \u2013 there are exceptions \u2013 now offers a realistic program where great awakening can happen. Most Zen Centers simply do not offer a program with sufficient intensity for householders to experience the kind of absorption necessary for a kensho as clear as the palm of one\u2019s hand, as Hakuin liked to put it.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cTake my old training center, the Minnesota Zen Meditation Center, for example. When Katagiri Roshi was alive, we had about 45 days of sesshin each year, plus two 100-day nonresidential practice periods with practice starting at 4:30am, Monday-Friday, plus two or three months of ango at Hokyoji, the country place we were developing as a monastery. Now, according to their calendar for 2022, I count nine days of sesshin and a few one-day retreats.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cGenerally speaking, it\u2019s going to take many Zen students at least 100 days of sesshin for a first kensho and then another 400 or so (a low estimate for the \u201cbest horses\u201d) to really integrating that awakening. This assumes weekly sanzen\/dokusan with a clear-eyed teacher. There are other ways of doing intensive practice, of course, and sesshin days are just one convenient indicator.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cStill, at the Minnesota Zen Center now, even if you participated in all their days of sesshin, you\u2019d be looking at fifty years before you could get that kind of time in. Meanwhile, the by-line on their web page says that they\u2019re \u2018celebrating 50 years of awakening together.\u2019 And they are not alone in offering this low level of intensity while continuing the narrative about awakening. Indeed, from what I\u2019m seeing, this is now the norm. By the way, to their credit, the Minnesota Zen Center recently raised almost $600,000 for building renovations, including to their zendo \u2013 so this model is being financially support.\u201d (1)<\/span><\/div>\n
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Speaking more generally about the Soto tradition, one of the traditions to which he belongs, he tells me: \u201cWhat they\u2019re often doing is serving as community centers for progressive people that want to come and do a little meditation, and occasionally to hear a talk about something that they can use in their lives. If there\u2019s a children\u2019s program that the kids can attend while they\u2019re doing their weekly Zen thing, all the better. There\u2019s nothing wrong all with that, of course. But it\u2019s not Zen training, and there\u2019s nothing in the history of Zen that indicates that kind of limited practice can actually lead anywhere, except maybe to being a nicer person and a better life next time. Zen in the West has become mostly about well-being rather than the Bodhisattva vow to get to the ground of being to benefit all beings.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cAs I\u2019ve said, most centers now are church-like progressive community centers. You know, there was this idea 50 years ago that Zen was going to convert the West. No! The West has converted Zen. And it\u2019s made Zen \u2013 with some exceptions \u2013 into a progressive belief system, a condiment for progressive living. Meanwhile, it requires an enormous commitment of time and energy from both the teachers and committed members to support this model. Is the outpouring of so much energy worth the results that are generated? I don\u2019t think so.\u00a0<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cIn addition, the Soto Zen Buddhist Association (SZBA) now is focussed on training priests in progressive political causes. I\u2019m a progressive, so don\u2019t disagree with the politics, generally, but with such a nearly exclusive focus, the SZBA has abandoned their duty of care to support Zen priests offering the buddhadharma and instead have become a support for people in Zen priest robes doing progressive Buddhist community organizing. After twenty-years membership and financial support, I resigned from the organization in September.\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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\u201cWell, they do teach meditation,\u201d I suggest.<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cA lot of Zen Centers now teach a fuzzy form of mindfulness. They\u2019re teaching a version of meditation that\u2019s only distinguishable from secular mindfulness in its lack of clear outcomes.\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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\u201cAre there not other schools which still emphasize awakening and the post-awakening process? The Rinzai people, the Sanbo Zen people.\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n
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\u201cTo some extent. And they are all facing the same pressures. Levelling downwards and accommodating individual preferences rather than strong group practice. That is Western culture. To find the easiest way through. And then there\u2019s the commodification of the dharma. So you have kenshos being verified that often are only feint intimations or not even that. I\u2019ve met with people that are deep into the koan systems in various traditions, one who had completed a 500 koan system, and for many of them it\u2019s all intimation but not what would be called a classical kensho.\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n
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There needs to be, in his view, a re-visioning of methods to present Zen in the West.<\/span><\/div>\n
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(1) The preceding three paragraphs will not be included in the version of this interview that will appear in Rick\u2019s book.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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D\u014dsh\u014d Port began practicing Zen in 1977 and now co-teaches with his wife, Tetsugan Zummach Sensei, with the Vine of Obstacles Zen<\/a>, an online training group. D\u014dsh\u014d received dharma transmission from Dainin Katagiri R\u014dshi and inka sh\u014dmei from James My\u014dun Ford R\u014dshi in the Harada-Yasutani lineage. He is also the author of\u00a0Keep Me In Your Heart a While: The Haunting Zen of Dainin Katagiri<\/a><\/i>. D\u014dsh\u014d\u2019s translation and commentary on The Record of Empty Hall: One Hundred Classic Koans,<\/em><\/a> was published in 2021 (Shambhala). His\u00a0third book, Going Through the Mystery\u2019s One Hundred Questions<\/em><\/a>, is now available. Click here<\/a> to support the teaching practice of D\u014dsh\u014d R\u014dshi.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

In the fall, I met with Rick McDaniel for an interview for his new book, Further Zen Conversations. Rick has published a bunch of really good books about Zen in recent years (click here for more). He\u2019s such a skilled interviewer that I encouraged him to start a podcast (but that\u2019s not his thing).\u00a0 His […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":182,"featured_media":11478,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[456,471,453,444,459],"class_list":["post-11361","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-soto-zen-buddhist-association","tag-sumeru-books","tag-szba","tag-zen-center","tag-zen-center-model"],"yoast_head":"\nThe Zen Center Model is Broken: Excerpt from "Further Zen Conversations"<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"In the fall, I met with Rick McDaniel for an interview for his new book, Further Zen Conversations. 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