{"id":367,"date":"2009-03-23T20:26:00","date_gmt":"2009-03-23T20:26:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher\/"},"modified":"2009-03-23T20:26:00","modified_gmt":"2009-03-23T20:26:00","slug":"inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html","title":{"rendered":"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><a href=\"https:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_0uPSljNE9f4\/Scg22i0eoZI\/AAAAAAAAAU8\/t2QSRMmdrLw\/s1600-h\/101_0542.JPG\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" style=\"margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt;float: left;cursor: pointer;width: 240px;height: 320px\" src=\"https:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_0uPSljNE9f4\/Scg22i0eoZI\/AAAAAAAAAU8\/t2QSRMmdrLw\/s320\/101_0542.JPG\" alt=\"\" border=\"0\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"Apple-style-span\" style=\"font-size:medium\">Once <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Tung-shan\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Dongshan <\/a>was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, \u201cWhat teaching did you receive while you were at Yun-yen\u2019s place?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Dongshan said, \u201cAlthough I was there, I didn\u2019t receive any teaching.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The monk asked, \u201cSince you didn\u2019t actually receive any teaching, why are you conducting this memorial service?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dongshan said, \u201cWhy should I turn my back on him?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The monk asked, \u201cIf you began my meeting Nan-chuan, why do you now conduct a memorial service for Yun-yen?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dongshan said, \u201cIt is not my former master\u2019s virtue or buddhadharma that I esteem, only that he did not make exhaustive explanations for me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The monk asked, \u201cSince you are conducting this memorial service for your former master, do you agree with him or not?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dongshan said, \u201cI agree with half and don\u2019t agree with half.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The monk asked, \u201cWhy don\u2019t you agree completely?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Dongshan said, \u201cIf I agreed completely, then I would be ungrateful to my former master.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The above (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Record-Tung-Shan-Classics-Asian-Buddhism\/dp\/0824810708\/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1237858510&amp;sr=8-1\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span class=\"Apple-style-span\" style=\"font-size:medium\">based on Powell\u2019s translation<\/span><\/a><span class=\"Apple-style-span\" style=\"font-size:medium\">) has some important guidance for how to study with a teacher and how to regard our long departed teachers.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>A little background to the story above:<br>Dongshan was a golden child in the Chinese Ch\u2019an (Zen) circles of his day, pointed out by Nan Chuan, regarded as a living Buddha, when Dongshan was only 16 years old. He eventually received transmission (he seems to have rejected Nan Chuan\u2019s offer for transmission) from Yun-yen, reputed to be a rather cloudy fellow having attended to Baizhang, another living Buddha, for over 20 years and not had a break in the clouds (i.e., realization). Yun-yen did realize after he left Baizhang but even though Baizhang was a great teacher, as I said in my last post, it takes as long as it takes. Reputation on the other hand sometimes lingers like horse smell long after the latter has left the barn.<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, a couple things here, prompted by some of the discussions here at Yugeji and on the web about how \u201csome people\u201d view authority (love\/hate).<\/p>\n<p>The grounds for Dongshan\u2019s gratitude for Yun-yen seem to lie in how Yun-yen let him discover the buddhadharma for himself, without exhausting explanation.<\/p>\n<p>The second is how for Dongshan that gratitude was upheld by half agreeing. Just because Dogen or Katagiri said this or that, to cling to their words and build a moon palace therein, is to utterly betray them. Living Buddhism isn\u2019t about relying on authority.<\/p>\n<p>If I was the monk, however, when Dongshan said \u201cI agree with half\u2026,\u201d I\u2019d jump in and say, \u201cWhich half?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>\u2018Cause therein lies the rub, matie.<\/p>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/4330911338438640912-5987274937686648344?l=wildfoxzen.blogspot.com\" alt=\"\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, \u201cWhat teaching did you receive while you were at Yun-yen\u2019s place?\u201d Dongshan said, \u201cAlthough I was there, I didn\u2019t receive any teaching.\u201d The monk asked, \u201cSince you didn\u2019t actually receive any teaching, why are you conducting [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":182,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-367","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, &quot;What teaching did you\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, &quot;What teaching did you\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Wild Fox Zen\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dosho.port\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-03-23T20:26:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_0uPSljNE9f4\/Scg22i0eoZI\/AAAAAAAAAU8\/t2QSRMmdrLw\/s320\/101_0542.JPG\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dosho Port\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dosho Port\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"2 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html\",\"name\":\"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-03-23T20:26:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2009-03-23T20:26:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/45224391b7690e99673782337bd0eabd\"},\"description\":\"Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, \\\"What teaching did you\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/\",\"name\":\"Wild Fox Zen\",\"description\":\"Living the Dream\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/45224391b7690e99673782337bd0eabd\",\"name\":\"Dosho Port\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/7b9712e98924dea6c08d55890403352f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/7b9712e98924dea6c08d55890403352f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dosho Port\"},\"description\":\"Dosho Port began practicing Zen in 1977 and now co-teachers with his wife, Tetsugan Zummach, with the Vine of Obstacles Zen. Dosho received dharma transmission from Dainin Katagiri Roshi and inka shomei from James Myoun Ford Roshi in the Harada-Yasutani lineage. He is the author of \\\"Keep Me In Your Heart Awhile: The Haunting Zen of Dainin Katagiri,\\\" \\\"The Record of Empty Hall: One Hundred Classic Koans,\\\" and \\\"Going Through the Mystery's One Hundred Questions.\\\"\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/www.vineobstacleszen.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dosho.port\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/author\/doshoport\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher","description":"Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, \"What teaching did you","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher","og_description":"Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, \"What teaching did you","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html","og_site_name":"Wild Fox Zen","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dosho.port","article_published_time":"2009-03-23T20:26:00+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_0uPSljNE9f4\/Scg22i0eoZI\/AAAAAAAAAU8\/t2QSRMmdrLw\/s320\/101_0542.JPG"}],"author":"Dosho Port","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dosho Port","Est. reading time":"2 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html","name":"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-03-23T20:26:00+00:00","dateModified":"2009-03-23T20:26:00+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/45224391b7690e99673782337bd0eabd"},"description":"Once Dongshan was conducting a memorial service for his master, Yun-yen (literally, Cloudy Cliff, Cloudy Light). A monk asked, \"What teaching did you","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2009\/03\/inviting-trouble-studying-with-a-teacher.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Inviting Trouble: Studying with a Teacher"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/","name":"Wild Fox Zen","description":"Living the Dream","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/45224391b7690e99673782337bd0eabd","name":"Dosho Port","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/7b9712e98924dea6c08d55890403352f?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/7b9712e98924dea6c08d55890403352f?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dosho Port"},"description":"Dosho Port began practicing Zen in 1977 and now co-teachers with his wife, Tetsugan Zummach, with the Vine of Obstacles Zen. Dosho received dharma transmission from Dainin Katagiri Roshi and inka shomei from James Myoun Ford Roshi in the Harada-Yasutani lineage. He is the author of \"Keep Me In Your Heart Awhile: The Haunting Zen of Dainin Katagiri,\" \"The Record of Empty Hall: One Hundred Classic Koans,\" and \"Going Through the Mystery's One Hundred Questions.\"","sameAs":["https:\/\/www.vineobstacleszen.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dosho.port"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/author\/doshoport"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/367","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/182"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=367"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/367\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=367"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=367"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=367"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}