{"id":474,"date":"2008-11-17T19:15:00","date_gmt":"2008-11-17T19:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other\/"},"modified":"2008-11-17T19:15:00","modified_gmt":"2008-11-17T19:15:00","slug":"the-other","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html","title":{"rendered":"The Other"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/p>\n

Sesshin here over the weekend so no blogging, then work all day and afterwards a green tea latte with an old friend \u2013 an ex-Roman Catholic priest, retired Episcopalian minister, and now a practicing Quaker. One very chilled and wonderfully grumpy old guy. <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Thanks to those of you who commented on the issue of immanent and transcendent. Here\u2019s a question from email, one that lots of Zen students have, that gets at this issue in a relationship kind-of-way:<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

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\u201cHow can a Buddhist<\/a> or anyone who uses Eastern ideas to communicate his life and experience\u2026talk to Christians? By Christian\u2026I mean, God is a man\u2026and\u2026Christ is your personal savior and all other religions are off because of this fact. I ask at risk of stealing my little koan from myself. I have a girlfriend who is into this\u2026difficult to talk about anything in words. Of course, before words, Truth is there.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span> \n
\n
\n

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\n
The point of [any intimate relationship] is not to create a quick commonality by tearing down all boundaries; on the contrary, a good [relationship] is one in which each partner appoints the other to be the guardian of [her or] his solitude, and thus they show each other the greatest possible trust. A merging of two people is an impossibility, and where it seems to exist, it is a hemming-in, a mutual consent that robs one party or both parties of their fullest freedom and development. But once the realization is accepted that even between the closest people infinite distances exist, a marvelous living side-by-side can grow up for them, if they succeed in loving the expanse between them, which gives them the possibility of always seeing each other as a whole <\/span><\/span><\/span>and before an immense sky.<\/span><\/span><\/span>
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<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
The above is Rilke, not me, also pictured above (also not me). He sure says it better than I could. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Nevertheless, I\u2019ll hack away at it. Another way to put it though is this: Don\u2019t be a Buddhist, be a Buddha. As long as your a Buddhist<\/span> you\u2019ll be fighting. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
\u201cUnder the beautiful flag of religion we fight,\u201d said Katagiri Roshi. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
A Buddha can hold both sides at the same time, transcendent and immanent, and still enjoy her noodles. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
And if you\u2019d like to fish some more in the Zen stream, what follows is an old koan that appears in <\/span>Playing the Iron Flute Upside Down. I<\/span><\/span><\/span>t deals with relationship issues, including like those between Ms. Transcendent and Mr. Immanent (or Ms. and Ms. or Mr. and Mr.) You might imagine this to be a dialogue between two lovers. My comments are inserted below in normal font.<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
A monk from Korea said to Yun-chu \u201cI have realized something within me which I cannot describe at all.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Oh, a realization that is so pure it avoids foul words? Transcendent, transcendent. A gap greater than heaven from earth. And much like many Zen students these days who hide behind no-words. Yun-chu best go back to his room and make the monk sleep on the couch. <\/span><\/div>\n

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\u201cWhy is that so?\u201d asked Yun-chu, \u201cit cannot be difficult.\u201d <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
If you\u2019ve seen it, you can say it. If you know what purity and impurity are, you can play with them like a doggie with a new ball. <\/span><\/span>
<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
\u201cThen you must do it for me,\u201d the monk replied.<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Best not to pick up the work that the other must do for her\/him self. If you do, they\u2019ll just wind up resenting you. <\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Yun-chu said, \u201cKorea! Korea!\u201d and closed the dialogue.<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Remember, the monk was from Korea. So Yun-chu is saying, \u201cYou\u2019ve returned home! You\u2019ve returned home!\u201d<\/span><\/div>\n

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Later a teacher of Rinzai Zen criticized the incident, \u201cYun-chu could not understand the monk at all. There was a great sea between them, even though they lived in the same monastery.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Yes, Yun-chu was just using the sea to guard the monk\u2019s solitude. <\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Genro (18th Century Soto monk): <\/span>The Rinzai monk could not understand Yun-chu. There was a great mountain between them even though they were contemporaries.<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span>
<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
Yes, the Rinzai monk was just using a mountain to guard Yun-chu\u2019s solitude. <\/span><\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
Genro\u2019s Verse<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
It is not difficult to open the mouth;<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
It is not difficult to describe the thing.<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
The monk from Korea was a wandering mendicant,<\/span><\/span><\/span> <\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
Who had not yet returned home.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span>
<\/span><\/div>\n

<\/span><\/div>\n
Comments welcome. Other or not.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
\"\"<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Sesshin here over the weekend so no blogging, then work all day and afterwards a green tea latte with an old friend \u2013 an ex-Roman Catholic priest, retired Episcopalian minister, and now a practicing Quaker. One very chilled and wonderfully grumpy old guy. Thanks to those of you who commented on the issue of immanent […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":182,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-474","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\nThe Other<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Sesshin here over the weekend so no blogging, then work all day and afterwards a green tea latte with an old friend - an ex-Roman Catholic priest, retired\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Other\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Sesshin here over the weekend so no blogging, then work all day and afterwards a green tea latte with an old friend - an ex-Roman Catholic priest, retired\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Wild Fox Zen\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dosho.port\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2008-11-17T19:15:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/www.verticalpool.com\/media\/rilkepix.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dosho Port\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dosho Port\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"4 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html\",\"name\":\"The Other\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2008-11-17T19:15:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2008-11-17T19:15:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/45224391b7690e99673782337bd0eabd\"},\"description\":\"Sesshin here over the weekend so no blogging, then work all day and afterwards a green tea latte with an old friend - an ex-Roman Catholic priest, retired\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/2008\/11\/the-other.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"The Other\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/\",\"name\":\"Wild Fox Zen\",\"description\":\"Living the Dream\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/45224391b7690e99673782337bd0eabd\",\"name\":\"Dosho Port\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/wildfoxzen\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/7b9712e98924dea6c08d55890403352f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/7b9712e98924dea6c08d55890403352f?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dosho Port\"},\"description\":\"Dosho Port began practicing Zen in 1977 and now co-teachers with his wife, Tetsugan Zummach, with the Vine of Obstacles Zen. 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