Mother Sentenced to Jail for Refusing to Vaccinate Daughter

Mother Sentenced to Jail for Refusing to Vaccinate Daughter December 18, 2018
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A Miami mother is facing jail time if she doesn’t allow her ex-husband to vaccinate her daughter. The mother shared the news in an anti-vaccine Facebook group. According to a court order, she cannot prevent her daughter from receiving her vaccinations, or she will spend 30 days in jail.

The mother, we will call Carly, has been in a custody battle with her husband for 3.5 years. Carly and her ex-husband share joint custody of their 4.5-year-old daughter.

According to Carly, she and her ex-husband, we will call Scott, have very different beliefs about modern medicine. Scott is a firm believer that their daughter, we will call Mandy, should be fully vaccinated per the CDC schedule.

Carly says that she believes vaccines are toxic. Over the years, she has tried to persuade Scott to read books and propaganda movies like Vaxxed. However, Scott is a man rooted in science and refuses to read or watch anything Carly provides. Carly cried to the group that Scott thinks she’s radical.

For the past 3.5 years, the two have been battling in court about how to manage their daughter’s medical care. Carly believes that because Mandy has the MTHFR mutation, she cannot be vaccinated. Despite Carly’s beliefs, there is no scientific evidence supporting non-vaccination for individuals with this mutation.

Since many anti-vaxxers believe that individuals with MTHFR cannot be vaccinated, they use the mutation as an excuse to get medical exemptions from vaccines. Carly has fought for years to find a doctor that will testify in court supporting her claims.

Despite her best efforts, the two doctors she consulted, including a naturopath, refuse to go on court record and say Mandy’s MTHFR mutation excludes her from vaccinations.

Not even the quack naturopath will testify, that is saying something. Given the fact that absolutely no professional will support her in court, Carly lost her battle to Scott.

Carly sobbed to the group that the court sided with Scott because vaccinations are a usual standard of care with children. Scott’s attorney argued in court that Carly’s beliefs were radical and not based on science.

None of those statements by the attorney stopped Carly from acting like a defiant teenager until the bitter end. Unfortunately, yesterday the court told Carly that they’d had enough. The judge was sick of Carly ignoring the agreements between the two sides.

Additionally, the judge said they had given Carly more than enough time to comply with the terms of the agreement. Apparently, the judge lost his patience and wanted to escort Carly to the clinker yesterday afternoon.

Somehow the attorney’s in the case worked their magic, and Carly did not end up in jail. Instead, the judge requested Carly sign an order that outlined the rules she must follow. If she disobeys the order at any time, the judge said Carly will immediately go to jail.

In the order Carly shared with the group, Scott can vaccinate Mandy at any time he wishes. Scott does not have to tell Carly when Mandy will receive the vaccines. Additionally, Carly isn’t allowed to know the vaccination schedule.

The court ordered that Carly cannot discuss immunizations of any kind with Mandy. Carly is not allowed to be present at any of Mandy’s appointments where she receives vaccines. If Carly interferes in any way, the court will order her directly to jail.

Carly is required to comply with the court by January 14. Failure of Carly’s compliance will result in a 30-day jail sentence.

Naturally, Carly shared the results with the group, and the group reacted as rationally as anti-vaxxers can. Some suggested Carly kidnap her daughter and flee to another state. Others provided suggestions for successful detoxes she can use after she receives vaccinations.

Perhaps the most alarming aspect was the number of people telling Carly that Mandy will become vaccine injured. Dozens of commenters told Carly that if Mandy develops autism or any other issues that Carly should sue. Since Carly is “logical,” she said she has an attorney ready to litigate if necessary.

When she learned Mandy would be injected with chemicals and toxins, Carly could not keep her composure in court. She said she cried the entire hearing.

Even though she is fiercely against the order, Carly says she will comply with the ruling.

While Carly acts like a spoiled brat, she fails to realize that Mandy is the winner in this situation. Because Scott refused to bend to Carly’s ridiculous and radical beliefs, Mandy will receive vaccines to protect her from Measles, Rubella, Polio, Hepatitis, Diptheria, and Tetanus to name a few.

Even though Carly paints Scott as a vindictive ex, Scott is a loving father who wants the best for his child. By vaccinating Mandy, Scott can ensure she will not die from a preventable disease. Additionally, Mandy will not risk long-term side effects from contracting these illnesses.

So while Carly cries into her glass of pinot grigio tonight, I say we raise our glasses and toast Scott.

Congratulations on winning the case! Mandy is lucky to have such a loving and devoted father.

Cheers!

 

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Desertphile

    This is excellent news. I hope this becomes common.

  • Michael Neville

    Historical tidbit: World War I’s Western Front was the first major war where more soldiers died as a result of enemy action than died of disease. In the American Civil War 110,070 Union soldiers died in combat or due to wounds and 199,790 died of disease. The major difference between casualties in the two wars was vaccinations. Between 1865 and 1914 effective vaccines for small pox, measles, mumps, diphtheria, tetanus, typhus and typhoid were developed and widely used. When I was in the Navy I was vaccinated against diseases I’d never heard of. Militaries are great believers in vaccination.

  • TsuDhoNimh

    Not measles or mumps (those came in the 1960s or 70s) … but smallpox and typhoid, and the anti-serums for tetanus and diphtheria really helped.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Note: “If Mandy interferes in any way”

    Should that ‘Mandy’ (the kid) be ‘Carly’ (the mother)?

  • Kevin K

    Agreed.

  • Michael Neville

    Thank you for the correction.

  • WallofSleep

    “Carly believes that because Mandy has the MTHFR mutation…”

    My initial reaction was to read that as an abbreviation of “motherfucker”.

  • WallofSleep

    Militaries tend to focus on assessing the facts and ignoring the whacko politics. For instance, last time I checked the U.S. Navy takes climate change very seriously and considers it a threat to national security.

  • that’s most people’s reaction

  • WallofSleep

    Being the curious motherfucker that I am, and being unsatisfied with my initial reaction, I looked it up…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylenetetrahydrofolate_reductase

  • newfrickinshow

    One of the things that always annoys me about anti-vaccers and a lot of “alternative medicine,” asshats is the over-use of the term toxin. Never any definition, never any specifics, never any details, just some random and meaningless buzzword. Water is toxic in high enough levels for crying out loud. Either provide some evidence that the chemicals in vaccines are of dangerous levels or step aside and shut up.

  • persephone

    And “chemicals.” Everything is made of chemicals. These people are just stupid and ignorant, and support each other in their stupidity and ignorance.

  • Jim Jones
  • Jim Jones

    People used to use the pus from smallpox victims on their teen aged kids way back before proper vaccine doses were worked out.

    They felt that was safer than no vaccine.

  • B.A.

    I thought the same thing! Trump has the motherfucker mutation.

  • James B

    ”Carly says that she believes vaccines are toxic” …… Believes? That’s the problem with these anti-vaccination nuts ! They believe instead of learning the facts. So sad !

  • Ditto.

  • Yeah, I love it when anti-vaxxers claim that they stay away from “chemicals”. I’m forced to wonder what exactly they drink on a daily basis.

  • Anti vaxxers afraid of chemicals but get tattoos

  • Same.

  • Do they not realize that they, themselves, by simple virtue of being alive, are walking, talking, chemical factories? Do they try to avoid all the chemicals their own bodies produce?

  • Courtney Smith

    And what do you say to all the parents who have lost children from vaccines? Why is one death from the measles unacceptable, but one death from the MMR is ok? So that childs life is less important? Try telling that to the parents. Who will be responsible if “Mandy” had a debilitating reaction to the vaccines? Will the father be threatened with jail? There have been thousands of deaths and adverse reactions due to vaccines. What a horribly antagonistic, immature, insensitive article. Writer should be ashamed

  • Courtney Smith

    Well maybe you should take a look at your taxes since we’ve paid out $4 billion to families who have suffered loss and/or debilitating side effects due to vaccines through the VICP.

  • [Citation Needed]

  • Billy Tilo Sobelman

    damn, i’m sorry, but this is wrong. the writer and most you ppl clearly never heard of the nuremberg codes. i bet you’d all fail the Stanford prison experiment. think about it. you are giving chemicals in unsafe dosages to babies at 12 hrs old… then you take kids away from parents because YOU’RE TOLD TO. then you follow blindly as they make vaccines mandatory! wake up.

  • Billy Tilo Sobelman

    that’s actually interesting but lemme tell you really why the difference in wars why things were one way then and another way later.

    civil war, you got more horses and less trained medics, pretty simple. ww1 used mainly horses as well so again they spread a lot of diseases through the war with their fecal matter. then you got ww2 where by then they aren’t using horses so much which can be proven, along with their medics getting extensive first aide training. like way different than in ww1, dispute it if you want but it’s true. then you continue on she on and you are where you are now, yes, the military has a hard on for vaccines, but let’s look back at whos paying for those vaccines. the tax payers. 75% of or taxes is banking the military. so if you don’t pay for it, who does? and then, who banks off it ? PHARMA? you’re a fucking Guinea pig, at best.

  • Michael Neville

    Actually the German army in WW2 used a lot of horses, mainly because Germany had a shortage of petroleum fuels and rubber for tires.

    I’m ignoring the rest of your rant because you don’t actually make a point. A whine about PHARMA is still just a whine.

  • MarquisDeMoo

    I find the groupthink interesting; you can tell where someone is by certain trigger words or statements like ‘kinds’ and ‘PHARMA’ is definitely in that category even without the capitals.

  • Kevin R. Cross

    As usual when it comes up, you, the anti-vax idiot, have yet again shown that you have no understanding of statistics, the laws of large numbers, or in short, why the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Fund (NVICP, not just VICP) has paid out large amounts.
    Control of infectious disease is ALWAYS a statistical process. If you don’t have a solid grounding in statistics, you literally don’t know what you’re talking about. A perfect example is the Rubella vaccine. Roughly one in 1 million people will receive a vaccine injury from the MMR vaccine, which does in fact make it one if the more dangerous vaccines (one in 10 million is more common). Rubella infection is unlikely to have any permanent effect on an adult or child. However, should a pregnant mother get Rubella, the chances of a baby being born deaf, blind, both, or just dead? ONE IN TEN. Any rational person will take a 1 in 1 million risk over a 1 in 10 every single day.
    The NVICP was established in 1986 – FORTY YEARS AGO. In that time literally HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of people have been vaccinated. In numbers like that, even extremely low probabilities become certainties – there WILL be vaccine injuries. Some will be major, or even catastrophic. Because we are sympathetic and caring, we set up a fund to care for those people who were, literally, one in a million. And sometimes that care is not cheap.
    Measles shows the law of large numbers well. One in a million will have a vaccine injury. One in 1000 Measles cases is lethal. So, suppose a population of exactly 1 million people is exposed to the Measles virus. If vaccinated, they will have one person with some form of major vaccine injury. If they are not, they will have about a thousand people DEAD.
    There simply is no good argument against vaccination. Only stupidity and fearmongering.

  • MarquisDeMoo

    Actually it may be true but the price a benevolent society is willing to pay to improve the health of all. There is risk in any activity and we usually balance it out so say the risk of 10 children having an adverse reaction to a vaccine when it saves 10,000 would be acceptable odds. The problem of course is that people don’t understand probability and percentages all of which are outweighed by the anecdotal.

  • Kevin R. Cross

    Um, actually, the number of diseases that can be spread from horses to humans is extremely small. Diseases often can exist in different species, but specific different species, not just anything. The only thing I can think of that goes between humans and equines is rabies. I’d say your hypothesis is nonsensical.

  • I’m not the smartest cat in the room by a long shot, and even I understand the concepts of herd immunity and “worth the ultimately-tiny (0.001% or thereabouts) risk of a bad reaction”. If your kid happens to be in that one-thousandth-of-one-percent, that sucks, but all the more reason for everyone who can get vaccinated to do so. That kid who can’t have vaccinations is relying on the rest of us to protect them.

  • Courtney Smith

    Sorry, but one in a million is absolutely not true. You are actually the one who has no understanding of statistics. You are just regurgitating the crap you hear from people who don’t know. Four people have died in the US from measles in the last 18 years…130 have died as a direct result of the MMR vaccine and it is estimated that only about 10% of adverse reactions/ deaths are even reported so that number is staggeringly higher. I don’t know about you, but I’ll take my chances with the measles. We have more people dying and/or suffering adverse effects from vaccines than deaths from these diseases. There was a 400% increase in severe reactions from the flu shot in 2016. And herd immunity? No such thing.
    Herd immunity is this concept that a certain percentage of the population needs to be vaccinated in order to eradicate a disease. Herd immunity does not exist with vaccines and here’s why, it only applies to those diseases that are naturally derived that confer lifetime immunity. Vaccine manufactures promise to introduce an antigen. They do not promise that the antigen will initiate an antibody response (e.g. MMR vaccine insert). Even if there is an antibody response the doesn’t mean one will have immunity and if they do, immunity is temporary (up to 4-10 years). Chicken pox vaccine gives immunity for “unknown duration” but no more than 10 years, MMR is unknown, Pertussis “protection” is a joke, Hep B is a maximum of 7. How many people in their 30s and 40s and beyond do you know that are completely up to date per the current adult vaccine schedule? Here are some stats: Diseases we vaccinate for and deaths in the US since 2010:
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/E/reported-cases.pdf

    • Chicken Pox (57 deaths since 2010) = itchy rash; 5-7 days; resolves itself
    • Diptheria (ZERO deaths since 2010) = low fever, sore throat; many infections are asymptomatic or mild; treat with antitoxin and antibiotics
    • Haemophilus influenzae Type B (Hib) = flu symptoms, stiff neck; treat with antibiotics for 10 days
    • Hepatitis A (127 deaths since 2010) = transmitted orally through feces, uncooked food; children usually have no symptoms; flu symptoms, jaundice; resolves itself
    • Hepatitis B (2,861 deaths since 2010) = transmitted through blood, semen, vaginal fluids; flu symptoms, jaundice; most people do not show symptoms; acute Hep B resolves itself. Most deaths from drug users who share needles.
    • Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) = transmitted sexually; usually resolves itself with no symptoms; takes years to develop into cancer; regular pap screens prevent cancer; vaccine discontinued in Japan due to adverse reactions & deaths
    • Influenza – a.k.a. “the flu”; high fever, cold symptoms, vomiting; lasts 7-10 days; resolves itself; vaccine contains mercury (thimerosal)
    • Measles (4 deaths since 2010) = fever, cold symptoms, rash; 7-10 days; resolves itself
    • Meningitis = flu symptoms, stiff neck; usually caused by bacteria or virus; viral usually causes no symptoms and resolves itself; bacterial is spread through saliva (kissing, coughing); most people who ‘carry’ the bacteria never become sick; bacterial is treated with antibiotics
    • Mumps (2 deaths since 2010) = fever, swelling of salivary glands; many people show no symptoms; resolves itself within a few weeks
    • Pertussis (27 deaths since 2010) = a.k.a. “whooping cough”; treated with high doses of vitamin C
    • Pneumococcus = flu symptoms, stiff neck; treat with antibiotics
    • Poliomyelitis (ZERO deaths since 2010) = 72% of infections cause no symptoms; 25% flu-like symptoms that last 2-5 days; 0.5% of infected leads to more severe symptoms such as paralytic polio; only people with the paralytic infection are considered to have the disease
    • Rotavirus = vomiting, diarrhea; children, even those that are vaccinated, may develop rotavirus disease more than once.
    • Rubella (3 deaths since 2010) = a.k.a. “three day measles”; flu symptoms; 1-3 days; 25 to 50% of people infected with rubella will not experience any symptoms; resolves itself
    • Tetanus (17 deaths since 2010) = sudden, painful contractions of muscle groups; caused by Clostridium tetani transmitted through broken skin; prevention is to allow wound to bleed freely because the bacteria needs oxygen to germinate; treatment is tetanus immunoglobulin injection and hospitalization. CDC recently issued a retraction on the numbers of measles cases this year and said they had been misconsrued and were around the same numbers as the previous years. If you look at their website, however, 2018 numbers are actually lower than past years. They issued this via twitter, of course, because they wanted it to get lost in the sea of twitter posts- God forbid they lose some of their $350 million dollars.

  • Courtney Smith

    So I just commented above and I’ll copy and paste this for you here: Herd immunity is this concept that a certain percentage of the population needs to be vaccinated in order to eradicate a disease. Herd immunity does not exist with vaccines and here’s why, it only applies to those diseases that are naturally derived that confer lifetime immunity. Vaccine manufactures promise to introduce an antigen. They do not promise that the antigen will initiate an antibody response (e.g. MMR vaccine insert). Even if there is an antibody response the doesn’t mean one will have immunity and if they do, immunity is temporary (up to 4-10 years). Chicken pox vaccine gives immunity for “unknown duration” but no more than 10 years, MMR is unknown, Pertussis “protection” is a joke, Hep B is a maximum of 7. How many people in their 30s and 40s do you know that are completely up to date per the current adult vaccine schedule? I will not set my child on fire to keep yours warm. And I wouldn’t expect anyone else to do the same for me. The 1% chance of having an adverse reaction or death from a vaccine is absolutely false. Do the research, know the numbers, educate yourself on both sides. Vaccines need to be made safer. What happens when that kid is yours? Well in your words, I guess that sucks. There are tens of thousands of parents suffering the loss of their child or dealing with debilitating health issues due to vaccines. Who says sorry to them?

  • Courtney Smith

    Agree. Where there is medical risk, there must be medical choice.

  • Courtney Smith

    The FDA recommends no more than 25mcg of aluminum….Hep b vaccine contains 14x the recommended dose of aluminum per the FDA at 250mcg. Pentacil vaccine is 330mcg and pedirix is 850mcg. These are minimums for a 350lb adult and this is what is being injected into children. The sad part is that each child is different- some can handle the toxins and others cant. Vaccines are a one size fits all “solution” to kids that most certainly are not. You will not know until it’s too late- all it takes is one ingredient in one shot to ruin an entire family.

  • Courtney Smith

    Ingestion and injection are not the same thing. At all.

  • MarquisDeMoo

    ‘Who says sorry to them?’ – You answered your own question; that is why they get big pay-outs if there is any doubt. It is the price the rest of us are prepared to pay to save lives. Your definition of herd immunity is plain wrong, albeit the eradication of disease may rely on a certain vaccination rate it does not only apply to disease erradication:

    https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/52/7/911/299077

    Notwithstanding, if herd immunity does not work explain how Polio was eliminated from the USA and Smallpox from the world (see same article)?

  • Kevin R. Cross

    What a totally useless set of figures. I mean, it’s kind of awe inspiring that you could assemble such a huge series of completely worthless data. Since you don’t include how many people were vaccinated in any case, raw numbers of deaths mean nothing – 5 people dying amongst a group of 14 would be scandalous, 5 among 100 alarming, 5 among 10 million trivial. All that data, and no information at all.

    Except for the outright lies, of course. To wit:

    Diphtheria (note the correct spelling) will kill up to 40% of those infected. While it does respond to antibiotics, those antibiotics that affect Diphtheria often have unpleasent side effects in themselves.

    While Hepatitus B is mostly spread by intravenous drug use in the West, throughout most of the world it’s more of an STD. Roughly 5% of infectees will develop the more severe, chronic form, but this leaps to a whopping 70% if it is contracted before the age of 12. 40% of those with Chronic form HepB will die from Cirrhosis of the liver.

    Human Papilloma Virus: Pap smears do not in any way protect against cervical (or any other) cancer. They are detection method only – as with any cancer, early detection brings a better prognosis. However, this still requires chemotherapy, possibly radiotherapy, possibly surgical intervention, up to and including excision of the affected organs.

    Influenza kills a small percentage of infectees, and little can be done post -infection. It also is very effective at suppressing the immune system, allowing for a wide variety of opportunistic infections. It is a common cause of death among the elderly. Influenza was responsible for the single most deadly pandemic in human history, the 1918 or Spanish Flu, which probably killed about 100 million people worldwide.

    Bacterial meningitis kills 15% of infectees even with appropriate treatment. It also inflicts deafness and/or brain damage in some 15% of survivors.

    Mumps rarely kills, but inflicts reduced fertility or even outright sterility in some 40% of adult male victims and 5% of adult females.

    Pertussis (Whooping Cough) is a serious disease. In children 50% of cases require hospitalization. 1 in 200 dies. The use of vitamin c to aid in recovery is an urban myth.

    Polio does indeed have full effect in only 0.5% of cases. However, 40% of those who are affected die, and most of the remaining are crippled in some fashion. There is no treatment, and barrier/quarantine tactics are entirely ineffective.

    Rubella is indeed a minor infection – unless you’re a pregnant woman. In that case, CRS, Congenital Rubella Syndrome, will manifest 1 in 10 cases, approximately, either causing miscarriage, late-onset fetal death, congenital blindness, deafness, developmental damage or a wide variety of other conditions, and/or combinations therof.

    Further, your statement regarding herd immunity is entirely false. Since vaccination, even without appropriate booster shots, provides a high degree of immunity against it’s targetted diseases for the lifetime of the recipient, your contention that they only help against those diseases you can only generally get once is utter nonsense. Boosters increase levels of immunity back to near-certainty levels, and are certainly a good idea, but the idea that the body loses sensitivity to antigens completely is an idea that was thoroughly debunked over forty years ago. Wherever you’re getting your brain-addled data from, stop using it. Herd immunity is very real, and the actual experts have checked and rechecked that fact over decades. You are only showing your ignorance.

  • OMG – Do we need to get WOKE? Should we read the INSERTS? What else do you have?!

  • innate1

    slant much?

  • Courtney Smith

    No, it’s not wrong and you need to do some serious research on Polio lol. Were you aware that about 70% of the adult population is not up to date and believes they still have immunity from childhood vaccines, yet its the anti vaxxers that get blamed for 3 additional cases of measles (hardly something to be concerned about). Have you ever stopped to think that the majority of anti vaxxers are actually EX vaxxers? They DID vaccinate and suffered because of it. Herd immunity was based on natural immunity not the poison injected into people by Drs.
    The Theory of Herd Immunity Has Nothing to Do With Vaccination
    There is a better than even chance that if you ask someone at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) or the World Health Organization (WHO) or your family physician who first discovered the poliovirus and when they did it, they would have a hard time coming up with the right answer. The answer, by the way, is Karl Landsteiner, MD and Erwin Popper, MD of Austria in 1908.

    At the same time, it is unlikely many at the CDC, WHO or most medical doctors would be able to tell you the name of the person who came up with the theory of “herd immunity,” which serves as the foundational basis for justifying mandatory vaccination campaigns. The name of that person is Dr. Arthur W. Hedrich, a health officer in Chicago, Illinois. He observed that, “during 1900-1930, outbreaks of measles in Boston, MA appeared to be suppressed when 68 percent of the children contracted the virus.”

    Later in the 1930s, Hedrich observed that after 55 percent of the child population in Baltimore, MD contracted measles the rest of the city’s population appeared to be immune to the disease. It was these observations that led to the formulation of the herd immunity theory. But note that the theory was based on unvaccinated populations that were exposed to the disease and developed natural immunity to it. The protection came from the fact that each population was exposed to the disease and a certain percentage of the people got it.

    The original theory of herd immunity had nothing to do with vaccination. The first mass vaccination campaigns for polio and measles in the United States, for example, did not occur until 1954-1955 and 1963 respectively. That’s three decades after Hedrich constructed his theory. The underlying assumption of the theory was that a community as a whole would develop a certain degree of natural protection from an infectious disease after a portion of its members actually came down with the disease, recovered from it, and became immune to it.

    In other words:

    The more members of the herd (community) who were exposed to an infectious disease and developed natural immunity to it, the less of a threat that disease posed to the entire herd (community)
    Somewhere along the line between the 1930s and 1950s the theory of herd immunity was corrupted and resurrected as:

    The more members of a herd (community) who were vaccinated against an infectious disease and developed immunity to it, the less of a threat that disease posed to the entire herd (community).

    Notice the clever slight of hand there. Suddenly, the importance of exposure to an infectious disease was eliminated and replaced with vaccination, and the importance of natural immunity was diminished

  • Courtney Smith

    Ugh the insults and the rudeness are just so classless, but whatever. I rise above it. I type fast so spelling errors will happen- you’ll have to get over that. You are going to disagree with everything I say and any data, research, etc you are confronted with. I could sit here all day and go back and forth. I have more than enough data to support my point and I’m sure you do as well so at the end of the day all we’re doing is passing back and forth contradicting studies. This has been a worthy and interesting debate. I believe there is a time and a place for vaccines BUT until these manufacteres are held accountable to make these vaccines safer then I kindly bow out of getting them for myself and my family (who are all doing just fine). I’m not going to poison myself for others, bottom line. I am not a sacrificial lamb. I have seen first hand the devastation vaccines have caused so I will leave you to your precious vaccines and wish you and your loved ones the best.

  • Kevin R. Cross

    Thank you for that, but the fact remains that you remain the problem. This is NOT an area where we can agree to disagree. Your refusal to use the current vaccines, which have been studied by the very effective people at the CDC, the FDA, Australian Medical Association and many others and found to be as safe as humanly made possible, is a direct and ongoing threat to the health of the small number of people who, for medical reasons, cannot be safely vaccinated, those too young to have begun their vaccination strategy, and the old and ill with reduced immune systems. You, personally, are endangering people’s lives. And I don’t give a flying fuck whether you think my truths are “classless” – you remain an idiot, and potentially a killer.

  • Courtney Smith

    Please post your updated vaccine records per the 2018 CDC adult schedule. Would love to see those. Also, the CDC gets millions from pharmaceutical companies- of course they’re going to say they’re perfectly safe. It’s a conflict of interests and a biased opinion. I could send you thousands of dead babies that prove otherwise. BTW you can’t spread something you don’t have. Are you aware recently vaccinated are not allowed in cancer wards- there is a sign actually posted outside Johns Hopkins stating they are not allowed because vaccines shed and infect others. I’ve never had the flu, mumps, measles, rotovirus, rubella, pertussis so in fact, no, I’m not a threat or “potential killer” (seriously could you be any more dramatic?) You, on the other hand, with your aggressive and violent behavior towards others who don’t choose the path you do, are dangerous. I never said agree to disagree- I simply was trying to gracefully leave a conversation, but it’s obvious you cannot let that happen. My son has a heart condition and is not to be vaccinated so don’t even get started on that BS you have NO clue- do I expect others to poison themsleves for him? No. That’s just insane. I’m responsible for my kid and my kid only. Others are responsible for their kid and their kid only. Get on with your life. Go vaccinate yourself till your eyeballs bleed. I don’t care. You go live your way and I’ll live my perfectly healthy way. Best part about all of this is there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it. Toodles

  • Kevin R. Cross

    You’re right, no vaccine is 100%. Sometimes it doesn’t take, sometimes a person’s immune system just isn’t up to the task. Nevertheless, reducing the chance, and thereby reducing the chance of passing the disease on, is an obviously good idea.
    I have exactly no problem with your son. He can’t be vaccinated, and that’s that. What I don’t understand is your not doing what you can to protect him. Every unvaccinated person around him is a timebomb, a source for contagion that could kill him – especially as, as I know from dealing with heart conditions in my own family, most people with such conditions tend to be immune-compromised to a greater or lesser extent. Yes, it’s possible he could contract from a vaccinated person, but the chances of such are much, much lower.
    The reason I can’t just let this go is because your right to throw a punch ends at my nose. If you are not vaccinated, you increase the danger to me and to everyone I love and care for. Your choice affects literally everyone you have contact with, because sooner or later you’re going to be the reservoir for measles, or mumps, or chicken pox, and then everyone around you is at risk.
    Maybe you’ll be lucky. Maybe you’ll never encounter anyone with a dangerous communicable disease. I won’t bet on your luck.

  • Massive citations needed, there. (Also, stop spamming.)

  • [Citation BADLY Needed]

  • Courtney Smith

    So there was a smallpox vaccine. But as you can see, it had completely dropped from the “list” and hasn’t been used for over 50years.
    Smallpox was virtually eliminated, not from a magic vaccine, but from vast improvements in sanitation, plumbing, hygiene, and diet.
    There is an excellent book called Dissolving Illusions by Suzanne Humphries. It goes into the history of smallpox vaccinations as well as many of the diseases we vaccinate for now.

  • Courtney Smith

    Wow I can’t even with that “logic”. 40 years of healthy living has served me well. Please read what you just wrote to your Dr at your next check up and see if he agrees with that. Please give me stats on your “cesspool” and disease “reservoir” analysis. Considering about 70% of the US adult population is not up to date (which most likely includes you and many in your circle) you better get your bunker and foil hat ready if you actually believe that unvaccinated just magically carry or are reservoirs for disease. You better start asking all your friends and family for their updated shot records! You’ll be surprised at what you find- and do any of them have the measles or mumps? Pertussis? Rubella? Rotovirus?Mmmmm not vaccinated and not sick- what a concept! It’s called taking care of yourself and trusting your body to do what it was actually designed to do. Not everyone takes care of themselves (vaccinated and unvaccinated) so you really can’t lump all unvaccinated into one group.

  • MarquisDeMoo

    I’m sure reading list is full of books that confirm your beliefs, funnily enough we get that all the time here, albeit they usually only reference one book, which they rarely have read themselves. However there comes a point where someone with a balanced perspective admits they cannot be an expert in every topic so they put their faith in the consensus of subject matter experts. The experts may not always be right but I’m damned sure they are more often right than those who think it is all some great conspiracy and definitely more right than someone who thinks smallpox, which is principally an airborne contagion, was eliminated by better plumbing and diet! So unless you have a PhD in microbiology or a related field and published papers on the subject, I will go with the guide and its referenced works from Oxford Academic, I referenced earlier. However since you clearly think Doctors are not to be trusted I do sincerely hope you will not be bothering them when you get sick.

  • cecilia

    the most toxic thing in that child’s life is her moron of a mother.

  • shay simmons

    You have neglected to mention that the FDA recommendations are for aluminum administered intravenously as an ingredient in large volume parenteral (LVP) drug products.

    There is no elemental aluminum in pediatric vaccines. Also, look up the biological definition of “toxin.” Aluminum isn’t one.

  • shay simmons

    ” but one in a million is absolutely not true. ”

    You’re correct – it’s not even one in million.

  • shay simmons

    “Herd immunity does not exist with vaccines ”

    When was the last measles outbreak in MIssissippi?

  • shay simmons

    “Smallpox was virtually eliminated, not from a magic vaccine, but from vast improvements in sanitation, plumbing, hygiene, and diet.”

    Really? Why is there no smallpox in India, the Phillippines, or Ethiopia?

  • shay simmons

    “(including a Harvard educated immunologist)”

    That would be Tetyana Obukhanych.

    https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/appeal-to-false-authority-who-is-tetyana-obukhanych/

  • FallsAngel

    Vaccines are not experimental. Nuremberg doesn’t apply.

  • FallsAngel

    Makes a great bumper sticker!

  • FallsAngel

    Please post ONE medically, scientifically verified death from a vaccine and we’ll talk.

  • FallsAngel

    That money doesn’t come from general taxes; it comes from an excise tax on vaccines paid by (gasp!) the vaccine manufacturers. If you don’t vaccinate, you’re not paying into the fund. That figure is over 30+ years, and includes lawyers’ fees. About 80% of cases are “no fault”.

  • FallsAngel

    Oh, dear Lord, Tetyana!

  • FallsAngel

    Once a substance gets into the bloodstream, the body treats it the same whether it was injected, ingested, inserted rectally, inhaled, whatever! Have you ever watched “Arsenic and Old Lace”?

  • shay simmons

    But she went to HAHVud, my dear!

  • FallsAngel

    Between 1865 and 1914 effective vaccines for small pox, measles,
    mumps, diphtheria, tetanus, typhus and typhoid were developed and widely
    used.

    Much as it pains me to correct a pro-vax person, I gotta do it here. Smallpox vaccine was developed in 1798. Measles, 1963; mumps 1967; diphtheria 1921, so just after WW I; tetanus 1924. Typhus 1933 (not currently commercially available); typhoid 1896 so yes, was available in WW I.

    More soldiers died of the Spanish flu than in battle in WW I.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2862337/
    “The Army and Navy medical services may have tamed typhoid and typhus,
    but more American soldiers, sailors, and Marines would succumb to
    influenza and pneumonia than would die on the industrialized
    battlefields of the Great War.

  • FallsAngel

    and the anti-serums for tetanus and diphtheria really helped.

    Not in time for WW I. Tetanus-1924; diphtheria-1921.

  • shay simmons

    But “toxin” sounds so much more sciencological than “poison.”

  • The anti-vaccine death cultists have latched on to MTHFR and now, in their uneducated abject ignorance, worship it as some sort of ‘scientifical’ totem.
    Dunning-Kruger in action to the detriment of their children and society.
    .
    ZDogg deconstructing the stupidity:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYjQmxzh-Ts

  • I hope the court order is for the life of the juvenile and that Scott, the daddy, insures Mandy gets her HPV vaccination which is a pretty great anti-cancer vaccine.
    I also hope the court got a lesson in anti-vaccine death cult behaviour and irrationality.
    .
    I’d like to see the next anti-vax mommy who appears before this judge…

  • MarquisDeMoo

    Your reply has gone so I will address your points in reply to my own:

    1. Yes there are dangers in anything but a rational person and society balances the risks against the benefits. Since there is an infinitely greater risk in travelling by car I assume you make your child walk everywhere?

    2. If you are unable to accept the advice of the WHO, CDC and Chief Medical Officers of all advanced nations you clearly either are arrogant enough to think your home reading makes you better informed and that they are collectively deluded or that they have an agenda, which makes you a conspiracy theorist. If the hat fits.

    3. You clearly miss the point about a rational approach and disappear down a Rabbit Hole about appealing to authority. I question both yours and my ability to know enough in any scientific discipline be it immunology or climate change, so unless you are genuinely qualified in these disciplines to make up your own mind, then the rational approach for a lay person in any scientific discipline is to go with the consensus of experts. I would add that yet again in this respect you fail to understand statistics; statistically there will be some authorities who are outliers and occasionally they may be right but the rational approach is to go with that which is most often right. Asimov:

    “It is not so much that I have confidence in scientists being right, but that I have so much in non-scientists being wrong.”

    Finally, you put words in my mouth and accuse me of thinking you are patchouli wearing, sage burning hippies and then use that to accuse me of being narrow minded! The only narrow mindedness here is someone arrogant enough to think that with a bit of home reading they know more than the subject matter experts.

  • Mike Stevens

    Wound infection/sepsis was the major killer.

  • Mike Stevens

    There was a crazy dude a while back who insisted sodium chloride was “toxic”.

  • Mike Stevens

    They sometimes shove concentrated bleach up their kids’ butts.
    But even that’s not toxic… it’s “detox” apparently.

  • TsuDhoNimh

    Antiserums (made in horses) for treatment and prophylaxis came before 1900 (Emil von Behring got his Nobel prize for it).

    The toxoids for active preventive vaccination came in the 1920s.

  • Mike Stevens

    Tetyana Upchuck?

  • john tucci

    Merry Christmas, going away, see you next year

  • Mike Stevens
  • FallsAngel

    Interesting. Got a cite for that?

  • In large enough quantities, sure, but even water is toxic in large enough quantities (hyponatremia).

  • This guy cracks me up.

  • Oh lord. *facepalm*

  • jaybetter yes

  • TsuDhoNimh
  • ceciliafxx 5++

  • FallsAngel

    Thank you, the sources I used didn’t talk about Behring or the treatment, not immunization from, diphtheria with the toxoid. In fact, The History of Vaccines (your link) says, “(Note that diphtheria antitoxin was first used to treat the ill, not to immunize.)” I didn’t know someone had won a Nobel Prize for that, let alone his name. Wikipedia is not generally considered a good source on this forum, though I personally find it helpful and I did not use it in my search.

    Is there a reason you needed to be so snide?

  • Mike Stevens

    You are a smarter cat than most!

  • TsuDhoNimh

    Is there a reason you chose to interpret my brief answer as “snide”?

  • FallsAngel

    Your question marks, as if I was too ignorant to know about this. That’s not generally the way you answer a sincerely asked question. And really, Wikipedia?

  • Elizabeth A. Root

    I am happy to pay for vaccines for anyone who can get them.

  • FrenchKissed

    I agree that his argument is largely nonsensical (especially the rant towards the end) but salmonella can spread through horse poop, and is damaging and deadly.

  • FrenchKissed

    Not to mention that if sanitation, hygiene and proper diet were the silver bullet some claim them to be, then ALL the diseases “virtually eliminated” by these improvements would have been so at the same time. Instead we see huge drops in morbidity coinciding with the when and where the vaccines were made available, which occurred at various dates over the last 100+ years.

  • Kevin R. Cross

    Ah, thank you. I figured I’d missed at least one.

  • Rex

    At least Carly did some reading.

    Scott just “believes in Science”, but won’t even look at anything Carly provided him. Yup, that’s the kind of gather data, observe it, evaluate it, etc. that the Scientific Method is all about.

    Sounds more like he believes in something in a religion called “Science”, with the “High Priests of the PhD” that must be believed without question.

    I don’t really know why I’m bother to write this, a quick perusal of the rest of the Website and the comments leads me to believe this comment will likely be deleted. I’m also getting the feeling this WHOLE site, and many of the Commenters, are paid for by Big Pharma.

  • Joanne Long

    Who pays if the child is harmed by the vaccines?

  • Phyllis Georgic Any who blames Trump for separation of children of illegal parents at the borders need to wake up to the fact that most children of legally born parents are taken from them by force by the Child Protective Agencies throughout the country and sold into sex slavery ! https://pjmedia.com/parenting/is-child-protective-services-trafficking-children/?fbclid=IwAR2jtxSheTCfo-HnVgEse77ukyxKlydqLgzpZLgvX9rXWkzYve9U0aX3piY

  • James B

    Science isn’t a religion ! BTW, science is always questioned. Eventually reveals the facts, which, religion does not.

  • Sweet Liberty

    Exactly the vaccine pushers are a cult and they worship vaccine manufactures propaganda. Refusing to look at any evidence of harm or a lack of need for some vaccines. Not surprised that she couldn’t find a doctor to go to court it is career suicide to go up against the sacred cash cow. Also agree this looks like an astro turfing website.

  • Sophotroph

    Ah, the know-nothings are here to tell us how everything they don’t understand is a dogmatic religion, just like they were told to believe by the cultish “alternative sources” they never question.

    I wonder if there’s a vaccine for having a redwood lodged in your eyesocket.

  • Sophotroph

    The above is a spambot! Please report both the post and the account! Thank you.

  • Jennifer Lilley

    Lmao! Because someone knows how to *actually* research, knows that the benefits far outweigh risks of disease, and is knowledgeable.. makes them paid for? Hahaha you antivaxxers are truly delusional, and in desperate need of mental health professionals. Its hilarious that every single belief you vomit out about pro- vaxxers is actually your own CULT trying to displace guilt. 1) vaccines make less than 2% of ‘big pharmas’ bottom line. Antivax cult leaders like Mercola (7 mil/yr off gullible idiots like you, from his website alone) Tenpenny lives in a multimillion dollar compound while preaching about lizard people and illuminati (sorry, it’s actually her batshit crazy belief..

  • Jennifer Lilley

    .. that is equivalent to child abuse. (Comment cut off) so now Fakefield has to bilk you gullible morons into paying for his way, since he’s a joke and no one will hire him. So who is it now that’s in it for money?
    Sorry but disease is way more profitable for ‘big pharma’, mmr- 20$, measles treatment 40k+ per person, -not including the gov government costs. But good know that if you could actually research, realize anecdotes arent evidence, and tell the difference between conspiracy garbage and legitimate scientific evidence.

  • Wesley Wilson

    The author of this opinion piece should take a journalism class or two. Go ahead and express your opinion, but name-calling makes you sound more juvenile than the person you’re calling a “whiny brat.”

  • Sophotroph

    The above is a spambot! Please report both the post and the account! Thank you.

  • Sophotroph

    Not as much as giving any respect to antivaxxers. You’re not here to critique journalism skills, you transparent shill.

  • sanebrain

    The mother was NOT jailed. She was told by the court that if she interfered with vaccination that she would be jailed IMMEDIATELY. The title here plays up irrationality and martyrs her. She in fact backed down when told she would face immediate consequences to pushing her irrational beliefs. If she actually believed her daughter would be hurt she would have accepted jail. But it was going to inconvenience her, so time to back down. My point is the court actually tried to work with her and then gave up. She is NOT a martyr.

  • sanebrain

    The article says he plans to go by the CDC/Peds schedule.

  • sanebrain

    That was even with full scale small pox vaccinations in the Union!!! Though santiation commissions on the Union side helped quite a bit, which is why so many antivaxxers think clean water and hygiene is all they need.

  • sanebrain

    Those are among the battle casualties.