Woman Who Killed Baby in Reckless Freebirth is Pregnant

Woman Who Killed Baby in Reckless Freebirth is Pregnant March 15, 2019

A California mother that attempted an unassisted free birth and killed her baby last fall announced she is pregnant again. “Lisa” announced on Instagram that the baby is due in September 2019. Last fall Lisa attempted to deliver her daughter Journey Moon without any medical assistance and instead relied on a Facebook group to guide her birth.

In October 2018, Lisa engaged in a Facebook group called Free Birth Society. The now defunct group was a community to support women that opted not to have medical assistance for their pregnancy and birth. Group admin Emilee Saldaya played a crucial role in providing Lisa terrible advice during her delivery.

Through multiple updates within the group, Lisa shared her birth with the group. She experienced numerous complications including prolonged rupture of membrane, back labor, foul-smelling and discolored discharge, and she was two weeks past her due date.

A previous article titled “Mother Decides to Have an Unassisted Childbirth Kills Her Baby,” we wrote on her birth detailed the birth:

For four agonizing days, the mother persisted on with her labor at home. She shared with the group that her water broke. At one point she was worried because the fluid was dark, brownish, and had a foul smell. She even worried the baby swallowed meconium. Other mothers told her that a baby swallowing meconium wasn’t a big deal.

The labor of the woman had several red flags that should have been indications to her and the group that something was desperately wrong.

  • The baby was two weeks late from their birthdate.
  • She labored for five days and had limited progress in the labor.
  • She had back pain that was indicative of a malpositioned baby.
  • When her water broke, the liquid was brown and discolored. Amniotic fluid should be clear.
  • She was concerned her discharge contained meconium (fetal fecal matter) which can be aspirated on by the baby causing infection and death.
  • The discharge had a foul smell.
  • Her baby stayed in the foul-smelling and discolored discharge for several days.
  • She only sought medical help after she no longer felt the baby moving.

After six days, Lisa said she woke up and spilled brown discharge all over her legs. At this point, she decided to go to the hospital because she was fearful for her life. Unfortunately, when she arrived at the hospital, the doctors were unable to detect the baby’s heartbeat.

Her daughter, who she named Journey Moon, died from an infection inside of her uterus. Lisa admitted online that she was diagnosed with Group B Strep. Journey’s death was entirely preventable had Lisa had prenatal care and birthed at the hospital.

Following the death of the baby, Lisa shared her story with Free Birth Society:

In the update, Lisa admitted her labor started on October 1, but she did not go to the hospital until October 7th. Additionally, she acknowledged that Journey Moon stopped moving the day before she sought help at the hospital.

After she shared the news, her story went viral. Screen-shots shared within the group, on her public Instagram, and Facebook profile circulated Facebook. Without a Crystal Ball published the story and wrote multiple follow-ups. Eventually, we helped the Daily Beast on an article they published on the birth.

In the Daily Beast interview, Lisa defended her choice to “free birth” and was unapologetic in her decision. Instead of denouncing Free Birth Society, she defended FBS founder Emilee Saldaya. Also, Lisa remained committed to the natural childbirth movement.

Naturally, the story elicited outrage by hundreds of thousands of people. Her inability to accept responsibility for her role in Journey Moon’s death in the Daily Beast article further angered the public.

Now after only five months of Journey Moon’s unnecessary death, Lisa announced on Instagram she is expecting her “Rainbow Baby.” In the photo, her three pit bulls wear signs that say “After every storm.”

The caption reads, “After every storm, there is a rainbow, and our rainbow will be here September 2019.”

She goes on to say, “Hand chosen for earth by it’s (sic) sister in heaven. We are excited to have this new spirit joining our family. Very happy to announce this news during #RainbowWeek. We honor Journey as we welcome her new sibling. We are twelve weeks along today. The pits are ready to take on their guard dog duties!”

While Lisa is absolutely in her right to be excited about her “rainbow baby,” the update will likely infuriate thousands of people that watched her poor choices kill Journey Moon. Lisa did not say if she has seen a doctor for this pregnancy. However, in her announcement of Journey Moon’s death, she said that she would need medical assistance for future pregnancies and births.

Let’s hope for the sake of the sibling that Lisa follows the directions of doctors and does not attempt a second unassisted birth at home. Journey Moon did not have die, and Free Birth Society played a crucial role in contributing to her death.

Lisa, if you are reading this, we wish you the best of luck on this pregnancy. However, we hope that you use doctors and not a Facebook group to assist in your next delivery.

We will continue to update as the story develops.


(Make sure to subscribe to my YouTube channel – I will be hosting a live video on the developments)


*Katie Joy is a columnist and hosts Without A Crystal Ball on Patheos Non-Religious Channel. She writes articles on parenting, disability advocacy, debunking pseudoscience, atheism, and crimes against women and children.

She co-hosts the YouTube show, “The Smoking Nun,” with Kyle Curtis. The show airs weekly and tackles pseudoscience, current events, and crime stories.

Communicate with Katie on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube.

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  • andrea

    Yow. And she’s probably right on the edge of 90 days or less between giving birth and becoming pregnant again, so pile on another risk factor.

  • Yes, it was within 3 months

  • frostysnowman

    Am I the only one who hates the term “rainbow baby”?

  • Nope I hate it too

  • firebubbles310

    I know it’s her body and choice. I know I don’t want to legislate that and how bad that would be. It just makes me so sad for my sister who has tried for 7 years to get pregnant but her PCOS has made that impossible and losing weight is so hard because of the PCOS to have in vitro. It sucks this woman kills her kid with stupid decisions and has another when my sister can’t have one.

    Proof there is no god if i was on the fence for sure.

  • ShamrockGecko

    Meanwhile, countless families wrestle with infertility and miscarriage. Sigh.

  • I really hope she’s going the hospital route this time.

  • Baby Buddha Belly

    This trend of birthing without assistance is just plain reckless. You don’t want medical intervention? Fine. Get a midwife. You don’t want to be strapped to a hospital bed? Fine. Get a midwife. You want to labor without medication? Fine. Get a midwife! For the love of God, just get a midwife, but don’t gamble with your child’s life or future because you don’t know what you don’t know! Journey Moon, in this birth situation, may have actually been blessed to have passed because …a life being severely disabled is not really much of a life at all. Based on what I’ve read here, had this fetus been born alive, she would have likely been severely developmentally disabled. Her passing, however, could have been prevented had her mother chosen to be attended by a midwife. It’s mind boggling to me why anyone would gamble with their child’s life and their own. It’s terribly selfish, stupid and reckless. On a more spiritual level, it’s very confusing to me why women, such as this one, are blessed with another baby. It doesn’t make sense to me on scientific level either (evolutionarily speaking, shouldn’t someone like this – no common sense – be removed from the gene pool?) At least, this next baby has a far better chance of living, the mom has to be admitted for all subsequent births. Let’s hope she picks a better name next time too.

  • Rann
  • sdsures

    Is that crunchy-speak for “dead baby I killed but I’ll never admit it”?

  • sdsures

    I have PCOS too, and very much want to have children. Stories like this infuriate me.

  • andrea

    Sometimes. More broadly, it means a new baby after the loss of a young kid or pregnancy.

  • sdsures

    *raises hand* I’m one of them, which is why this story infuriates me.

  • Shan

    God, rereading this, my horrific takeaway (again) is how avoiding doctors and any medical help is how “free birth” is a performance piece, a display to show how “natural” and “wholesome” the mother-to-be is compared to other moms who are “doing it wrong” by taking steps to ensure their baby’s wellbeing.

    The proof of that? She doesn’t bother going to the hospital when her due date passes, when she’s laboring for days with zero results, or even when she no longer feels movement from the baby. It’s ONLY when she thinks her life is in danger that she seeks medical help.

    Lisa, you don’t care about your future children. You only care about projecting the proper image, and will sacrifice a hundred pregnancies to maintain it. I’ll only believe otherwise if your new child is born with actual medical supervision.

  • Rosa J.

    Not proof there is no God, sorry. Maybe a sign God is calling her to another way of being a mother like adoption. There are many children in this world who need loving parents – having a baby is not the only way to become a parent.

  • Anne

    This woman had a midwife. Her midwife told her she needed to go to the hospital. She didn’t even listen to the midwife. If a midwife says you need to go to the hospital, you need to go to the hospital

  • firebubbles310

    You don’t know my sister’s situation. The shit her in-laws have been through in having a missing son (technically her BIL) for over twenty five years with no answers. The fact that her MIL and FIL require care and would make it hard, if not impossible to adopt. That to function her husband needs meds due to depression because of the shite situation.

    If your God exists. He is a dick to let them wonder for years and let his mother have nervous breaks. For her I -laws health to decline. For her husband to grow up from kindergarten knowing his older brother was missing. That he was the last one to see him except the kidnappers.

    Do not play that different calling shite with me. His family has been through enough without your platitudes. Every year the anniversary is an open wound that sends them all into depression. For them to have trouble conceiving when all her husband wants is a kid is heartbreaking. Honestly so had my sister even before she was married. So spare me that bull. Either your god exists and he let a pedophile ring exist in her husband’s neighborhood when he was a kid that likely led to the disappearance of his brother and did nothing about it to help any of the children or he doesn’t. If he does, the stuff theirs and my family has seen means your god doesn’t deserve to be worshipped.

    Letting children like my BIL’s brother and this woman’s child suffer so means that he does nothing to protect us. He is a bully that expects constant praise or eternal punishment.

  • NikkiofAmystika

    The dogs are cute.
    That’s about the only positive thing I can say here.

  • persephone

    Three pit bulls in a house with a baby is another poor choice.

  • persephone

    If this one survives, I feel safe in predicting it is going to have a crap life. This couple is incredibly immature and focused on themselves. A child is just a symbol for them. Their history of drug use and homelessness indicates very poor planning. They see a baby as a way to prove their adulthood, without recognizing the costs and commitment required to raise a child to adulthood. They see a baby. They don’t see that that baby won’t stay that way.

  • Jet King

    Barf. And crap spouted by people who’ve never had to deal with infertility.
    First of all, “you can always adopt” is insulting. You have no idea what people who struggle with infertility are going through and you sum it up by telling us we can adopt. Because, yeah! Of course! I totally hadn’t thought of that!! How f*#&ing stupid do you think I am?
    Second, do you have any idea how difficult it is to adopt? This isn’t the 1960s. Nowadays, most women who choose to have their babies also choose to keep them. And I’m glad they have the social support to do so. So basically, the only babies up for adoption for the most part are FASD/drug addicted, severely abused/neglected or moderately to severely disabled. Now there’s nothing inherently wrong with these kids, but maybe some families don’t want to go that route? It’s heartbreaking to deal with kids with reactive attachment disorder, in case you’re wondering.
    Finally, maybe the “nonreligious” blogs isn’t the best place to share your idea of “god’s plan”. As far as I can tell, your imaginary friend doesn’t have a plan. The world can be a cruel place of suffering and death. How does that square with the “plan”?
    I’ll leave you with the sentiment of Epicurus: “Is god willing to prevent suffering, but unable? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god?”

  • Jet King

    Not necessarily. I know a lot of people who deal with infertility who also use the term.

  • Jet King

    I was going to comment something about how it’s not the breed but the owners that’s usually the problem… but then I remembered who the owners are… Yeah, probably not ideal!

  • persephone

    Here’s the issue with I have with pits. Terriers are hyper and active. Most of them are five to ten pounds. A pit was bred to take the terrier attitude to a size large enough to attack bulls, in bull baiting. I’ve read too many cases of children attacked by family pits. The popularity of pits have resulted in overbreeding and inbreeding, making certain behaviors even more deadly.

  • Oh, shut up. If you’re not willing to adopt, you don’t deserve to BE a parent.

    Infertility is no excuse to be selfish.

  • That’s no excuse for letting kids suffer in foster care. Infertiles have an ethical duty to ADOPT if they truly want children.

  • THANK YOU for promoting adoption! Infertile people are so selfish when they refuse to adopt.

    (But no, “God” has nothing to do with it. Please leave him out of this.)

  • Yeah, she can adopt. Or just accept that she’s not gonna be a mom.

  • And THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN are waiting for a forever family.

    Why can’t infertiles just adopt if they want a child so badly?

  • “So basically, the only babies up for adoption for the most part are FASD/drug addicted, severely abused/neglected or moderately to severely disabled.”

    So? That’s no excuse not to adopt. And if you’re not willing to adopt a child with a disability, you are a terrible person and should be ASHAMED.

  • Jet King

    Not everyone is ready to parent a special needs child, either emotionally or financially. It’s a big decision. It’s also a very personal choice and none of your business. But sure, feel free to judge other people. I’m assuming you’re not rushing out to adopt these special needs kids tomorrow? In that case, by your own logic, you also don’t deserve to be a parent since you’re not willing to adopt. But it’s easy to be sanctimonious when you’re not faced with that choice because you were able to easily have your own genetic children.

  • Jet King

    So easy to say when you haven’t lived the infertility roller coaster or waited for years for an adoption match. Judge much? How many children have you adopted?

  • Jet King

    Admitting that you don’t have the resources to parent a severely disabled child is hardly selfish. And telling people to shut up is hardly an opening for a rational debate. You need to take a chill pill.
    People have free choice to adopt or not to adopt. They have the choice to not adopt a child with a particular disability because social workers try very hard to find the best possible match for these kids. They would rather you tell them that you’re hesitant about a particular disability than try to hide it because you want a child at all costs. THAT would be selfish.
    What’s insulting to people dealing with infertility is the callousness of that statement: Oh, you can just adopt. First of all: WE KNOW THAT! We are not idiots. We are fully aware that we can adopt. Perhaps we still have hope that we can have genetically related children? How is that different from you or anyone else that managed to get themselves knocked up after a weekend in Vegas? Somehow they are more responsible? Second of all: Many of us are already actively trying to adopt. And facing significant challenges along the way because it’s a long time to wait to find a match and there are very few children coming up for adoption nowadays because women have more choices.
    Maybe next time read my post instead of jumping to conclusions…

  • Jet King

    Well what’s your excuse? Why are you letting kids suffer in foster care? I guess you don’t have an ethical duty because you were able to have kids? That’s a double standard and you are a hypocrite.

  • Jet King

    “Infertiles”? Makes us sound like a cult.
    So because I have a medical condition that makes it difficult to have my own children I have a “responsibility” to adopt. Do you not have a “responsibility” to adopt?
    And your thousands of children? Where are they exactly? Why do I know many families with whom I have done adoption/foster care training several years ago and only one of them has been matched with a kid? Is it just possible that you’re inventing numbers because of your personal agenda, whatever that might be?

  • Jet King

    “Fertile people are so selfish when they choose to get knocked up rather than adopt one of those “thousands” of children waiting in foster care”
    There, fixed it for you. Selfish. Not to mention judgmental and arrogant when they tell other people who can’t get pregnant that easily that it is therefore their duty to do this because they’re too busy breeding their own brats.
    Edited to add: I forgot callous. For having exactly zero empathy for people struggling with infertility. Do you also insist that diabetics should adopt? Or how about people with MS? Cancer? Infertility is a medical condition and it doesn’t somehow make me responsible for other people’s poor choices in choosing to abuse drugs/alcohol during pregnancy or to mistreat their kids to the point that they are so twisted that they don’t know how to love and be loved anymore?
    Now I get that you were upset by what you considered my callous characterization of children currently in care. But these are serious emotional and psychological problems that these kids have and not everyone is equipped to deal with them. It’s not up to you to tell people that they should or should not put their lives on hold to commit to 24/7 care to a severely disabled child. But that doesn’t make these people selfish. Nor is it selfish to want to try to have your own genetic children. It’s basic human nature.
    If you have your own genetic children, then you are very lucky indeed. I don’t consider it selfish of you to have chosen that route rather than adopt. Why can’t you have the same compassion for me?

  • Jet King

    I like Saints and Newfs. Gentle giants. Couldn’t hurt a fly… unless they sat on one 🙂

  • firebubbles310

    She literally cannot foster. She cares for her in-laws. Her MIL has mental and physical health issues. (She has been hospitalized many times because of her son’s kidnapping) Her FIL has criminal history due to having issues from right after their kid went missing. She would love to foster but they don’t qualify. She would love to adopt, the same. I wish she could. I wish I had one to give her, but I don’t. I feel bad for her but I also know I wouldn’t want to legislate idiots like this woman because it is dangerous for the rest of us.

    I was lamenting at my sister’s luck and this woman’s. This woman was in labor and let idiots give her advice and ended up letting her kid die. I can’t change her circumstances or my sister’s. I am sad women like this and those religious twats who pray instead of medical care letting their kids die repeatedly. They have no trouble conceiving. Likely I wouldn’t either if I wanted kids. It sucks. I am sad for those born kids who suffer needlessly, who die because their parents care more about religion. Sad because this woman will likely let idiots tell her what to do rather than go to the hospital or doctor. Sad because we have such a high maternal death rate in this country even though we are soooo great.

    Situations like this remind me of how shitty life is and how random.

  • And I’m sad about those things, too, but I’m ALSO sad that so many kids end up aging out of foster care because people prioritize their own DNA and “pregnancy experience” over taking an already-born child who NEEDS a family.

  • No, it’s selfish. It’s “I WANT”. It’s “My DNA is so important and precious that it deserves to be replicated, and fuck all those kids in need.”

    Infertility is not a “medical condition”, it’s a perfectly natural state for some people. It’s only listed that way because we live in a pro-natalist society that pushes the disgusting idea that the only “real” way to have a family is to have “biological” — excuse me, what am I, a robot? — children.

    And when you say things like the “kids are so twisted they don’t know how to love”? That’s harmful to adoptees and foster children. That adds to the stigma against us. THAT IS NOT OKAY.


  • You’re lying.

    I’m adopted, I keep tabs on these things, so shut up.

  • I’m disabled and have a hard enough time caring for myself. I don’t want kids, I don’t have kids, and I’m reasonably certain I don’t have the temperament to be a parent.

    If I were to become a parent, yes, I would adopt. Because it’s the right thing to do. Because living children are more important than your DNA. And your narrow definition of “family” is utterly fallacious.


    Having your own genetic children… yeah, see, “your own” implies directly that adopted children aren’t really part of your family. That language is problematic.

    PS: I’m not dumb enough to get myself knocked up after a one night stand, Vegas or anywhere. It’s called “contraception”. (And if the worst happened, I’d abort.)

  • Uh, I AM adopted. And you only wait “years” if you’re going through a private agency and told them “no crips, gimps, or tards.” I assure you that there are in fact THOUSANDS of children waiting for forever families in America alone, millions if you go world-wide.

  • Jet King

    You obviously have never dealt with a kid with reactive attachment disorder or you’d have even a modicum of compassion. I wonder at how you can’t see the double standard you’re spewing. Your blog is all about victimhood. Pity you can’t have compassion for anyone but yourself. I’m done with you. You are a hypocrite and a judgemental arrogant twit.

  • I’m disabled myself (Cerebral Palsy) and well aware of what a burden I am to people like you. But thanks for saying out loud what most able-bodied people think.

    Now, here’s why, if you’re unwilling to take on a disabled child, you are not ready to be a parent:

    You’re not guaranteed a perfect pregnancy or a perfectly healthy baby. Shirt happens during gestation, before birth, during birth, shortly after birth, that can mess a kid up pretty bad. You and your docs can do literally everything “right”, and your kid might still be born with a disability.

    Even if you get lucky, and nothing goes wrong, your perfect little able-bodied child could, through illness, injury, or accident, become disabled. It’s not unheard of for people to, say, suffer a spinal cord injury, traumatic brain injury, or lose a limb, or lose their vision or hearing.

    But okay, let’s say you have a perfect pregnancy, deliver right on time without complications, and Baby’s hitting all their developmental milestones slightly ahead of schedule. With me so far?

    At the age of three, your child — being three, and thus impulsive, stubborn, and prone to completely forgetting rules — runs out into the street, and gets hit by a car. Your child suffers, among other injuries, a fractured cervical vertebra, rendering them quadriplegic.

    Would you just abandon them because it’s “too expensive” or you “can’t handle it emotionally”?


    Then why should those reasons be sufficient for not adopting a disabled child?

    PS: “Special needs” is a feel-good thing able-bodied people came up with to avoid actually using the d-word. Use “disabled” please.

  • Where’s your compassion for the children? Hm? Also, making a personal attack like you just did is against the rules of this blog. Flagged.

  • NikkiofAmystika

    Many people keep dogs-even some of the more dangerous breeds-in the same house with babies and small children, closely supervise all dogs and children and their interactions, and everything turns out fine.
    That said, with this woman’s history of bad choices, I’m not sure how well she’d do so, and so rehoming the dogs is probably the best option here.

  • firebubbles310

    I am sad about that too. Which is why I am planning on fostering once I am done with my Master’s. Sure. There are people who prioritize the DNA. Then there are others like my sister where it will be their only shot. IVF is cheaper then adoption (if she would even qualify or ever get chosen). Attacking without knowing the situation is not helpful.

  • I’m offended by the attitude a lot of infertile people have, that only a child from their loins will ever be “good enough” to be family.

    Adoption is actually cheaper than IVF, especially if you go through the state system. A lot of “private agencies” are shady and use it as an opportunity to suck all the money they can out of prospective parents.

  • Lizard

    $10 says she names this baby Rainbow.

  • Mimc

    There’s no such thing as “just adopting”. Adoptions are hard! All children removed from their birth family have some trama. Plus genetics really do matter. Raising an adopted cold is different from raising your own. So it’s a good solution for some couple but not others.

  • lonnie93041


  • Excuses, excuses. Trauma happens in “genetic” families, disabilities happen, mental illnesses happen, none of those are exclusive to adoptees.

    You wouldn’t turn away your “genetic” child for any of those things, so none of them are a valid excuse for not adopting.

  • Kelly

    If only adopting didn’t cost my annual salary. Before you start in on your “everyone who doesn’t adopt kids with disabilities are evil” how exactly is it righteous to take in a child and be unable to afford medications, equipment, special feeds?

  • Kelly

    My father has cerebral palsy and is well loved by his parents, his wife, his children, and extended family, so avoid the lecture on how I hate people with disabilities as I’m LITERALLY RELATED to one and I love my dad with all my heart. I’d much not care if I conceived a child with a disability; my $75,000 spent on adoption vs. spending literally $0 on my own kid other than insurance co-payments for a ridiculous amount of ultrasounds, bloodwork, and doctor appointments to monitor my ill fetus while pregnant could be used to update my home to accommodate a wheelchair, pay for medical supplies, and purchase a wheelchair van to transport my kid to their many, MANY doctor appointments.

  • Summer Severt Breeze

    Adopting from the foster care system does not cost any money.

  • Summer Severt Breeze

    Did somebody accuse you of hating people with disabilities? (Maybe they deleted their comment)

  • Summer Severt Breeze

    Is there a term you prefer for a baby born after losing a child?

  • Kelly

    Not specifically, but this poster above has written many comments claiming people who don’t adopt children with disabilities aren’t good enough to be parents to ANY child.

  • Kelly

    We are interested in NICU babies with disabilities who have already been abandoned at the hospital by their birth parents, and often the foster care system at this point is not involved. Plus, it makes me ill to know the government would give me a paycheck for being a foster parent. My husband and I don’t want to be paid for caring for a disabled child. Is that not good enough? Must we only be interested in older, disabled children?

  • frostysnowman

    How about just “baby”? Giving the child born after a miscarriage a special designation seems to put a lot of pressure on that baby to be somehow more special than average.

  • If your “genetic” child needed any of those things, you’d do whatever you had to to get them. So complex medical needs is not a valid reason for rejection.

    All arguments against adoption essentially boil down to “but they don’t have my DNA”.

  • Financial and medical assistance FOR THE CHILD is NOT “paying you” to be a foster parent.

  • Yeah, no. That’s right up there with “I have black friends”.

    And the phrasing there, “my own kid” — that shows your prejudice right there. You wouldn’t consider an adopted child “your own”.

  • And you’ve demonstrated ableist attitudes in every comment you’ve made.

  • Kelly

    To be honest, you don’t know me and you’re making a ton of assumptions about others based on your own experience. Why would I need government money if I already have a good income, a home in a community with a good school district, and stellar health insurance? Couldn’t that money be better allocated?

    You assume I have no physical or mental disabilities myself. That speaks volumes of your self centered ness. I refuse to parent, BIOLOGICAL OR ADOPTED CHILD, because mental illness renders me to be unfit to parent. At least my doctor and I figured that out before I recklessly got pregnant because “it’s what everybody does.”

    Frankly it’s none of your business how couples choose to create their families.

  • Kelly

    “But they don’t have my DNA” and THANK GOD! Because of my genetics and mental illness, I’d never get pregnant with my own biological child.

    If my adopted child required medical equipment and 24-hour care, our income would be slashed in half because I’d need to stay home and parent. We’d lose our house, then be out on the streets with a child in a wheelchair. Is this what you want? Adopted kids living in deplorable conditions because it’s expensive AF (try to separate your feelings on biological children and adopted children as in this case, my biological child will never exist.) “You’ll do whatever you need to do if your biological child was in a car accident, fell out of a tree, had a genetic predisposition to illness in uterine, etc.” Doesn’t apply to my situation babe.,

  • What part of THE STATE HELPS TO PAY FOR THOSE THINGS do you not understand? As in, the state will pay for a caregiver to come in to your home and help you. There are so many services available at low or no cost, that your “we’d be out on the street” line is pure bullshit. My point stands.

    PS: If nothing I said applies to you, why are you acting all hurt about it? Hit dog yelps, you know…

    And don’t call me “babe”, cupcake. I’m not female.

  • Kelly

    Are you naive? What part of THE STATE HELPS TO PAY FOR THOSE THINGS but shitty foster parents use their disabled kids’ paycheck for selfish reasons and don’t provide them with adequate care and a loving home don’t you understand? I’m not talking about MYSELF-I’m speaking in generalizations from what I’ve witnessed in my career as a pediatric ICU nurse.

    I’m not hurt-merely offering a different perspective that not all of us as are biological-DNA obsessed as you assume. Honestly, if there are couples who deep down know they don’t want to adopt and subsequently raise a disabled child, why are you advocating for it? Wouldn’t they be shit parents anyway? Isn’t that obvious? Why are you angry?

    Babe is a habit and it’s what I call my husband, friends and co-workers (some of whom are male and trans.) And cupcakes are delicious.

  • I’m not naive. But you are. And you’re projecting your anger on to me.

  • Kelly

    I’m simply asking questions. The only emotion I feel is sadness when I go to work to take care of underweight disabled children with GI bleeding from sexual abuse and head traumas due to neglect. I’m human, and seeing children suffer at the hands of their parents does anger me. I’d say that’s quite a normal reaction. *shrug*

  • “Just asking questions” as a excuse to say offensive things and then act like you’re the poor put-upon victim when someone rightfully reacts to your trolling with anger.

    I don’t like seeing children suffer, either. It makes me ANGRY. And abuse is all the more reason for disabled children to be placed in loving homes, rather than left to wither away until they age out in foster homes, after which they’re turned out on their own with no support.

  • Kelly

    I’m not acting like a victim nor am I trolling-what are you talking about? I’m trying to have a conversation and each reply from you has been so bitter and condescending. I’m not exactly sure how anything I said was offensive, other than a slight misphrase that you automatically assumed my hatred for the disabled (“my own” meaning biological, which is irrelevant because being a parent is a no-no for me!) I know emotions are difficult to convey through typing on the internet.

    I agree that these children need placed in loving homes-where did I say that is a bad thing? My POINT is why place disabled kids in homes for the sake of placing them if we KNOW the couples don’t want them? “People who don’t want to adopt disabled children aren’t fit to parent” is a blanket statement IN AN OF ITSELF. If they aren’t fit to parent, THEN WHY THE ARE WE ADVOCATING FOR THEM TO ADOPT?!

    You can be upset, but you can’t change people’s minds. The only person you can control is yourself. Have a nice day.