Anti-Vax Facebook Group Threatens to Overthrow U.S. Government

Anti-Vax Facebook Group Threatens to Overthrow U.S. Government May 6, 2019
photo credit Hannah Wiley Sacramento Bee – Anti-vaxxers protesting at capital

Group members in the Facebook group Stop Mandatory Vaccination have announced their intentions to start a civil war against the government. The members say the battle is the only way to fight “forced” vaccinations by the government.

As measles cases rip through the country, anti-vaxxers are becoming more paranoid about the government. New data released by the Centers for Disease Control reports 764 cases of the measles in 23 states. The current outbreak is the largest since 1994.

As a result of measles outbreaks, multiple states have proposed legislation to remove personal and religious exemptions for vaccines. Bills in Washington, California, and Maine are hoping to tighten exemptions on vaccines.

With an increased push by states to remove exemptions, many anti-vaxxers are becoming unhinged. In a Facebook group Stop Mandatory Vaccination, several members called for a civil war. In the past two months, we located at least three posts referencing war against the government.

“They are coming for the children; this is going to be what launches the next civil war, not gun control or racism, this.”

“I wanna start getting together people that would actually use their guns before letting government and pharma have total control (avoiding V word) … I’m talking about people who are 100% ready for a Civil War.

It’s time to make connections and prepare. I’m not good with technology, and we need a secret chat or forum that is secured. Anyone who can start that? If we don’t start banning together now, it will be too late. I am fighting for our children’s future; It’s time to start building and picking sides…”



“How many of you Would follow Me in a civil war?

UPDATE: if you have discord pm me please and if you don’t get it and dm me. I will be attempting to gather there.”

While many of the updates may be a panicked response to changes in legislation, the threat of violence against the government is clear. Anti-vaxxers are prepared to use guns and violence against the government to stop their children from being immunized.

Even though the posts threaten violence against the government, group admin Larry Cook has done nothing to remove the fear-mongering posts. In fact, several of the people have moved their group to Discord to avoid detection by Facebook.

Only a month ago, Facebook announced they would stop the spread of vaccine misinformation on their site. The company said groups promoting vaccine misinformation would be removed from searches. However, Facebook stated they would not delete groups that promote vaccine misinformation.

Not only is the post a violation of their new guidelines, but threats of violence are also a violation of Facebook’s community standards. Under the policy “Credible Threats,” Facebook states:

Calls for violence or statements advocating violence against the following targets (identified by name, title, image, or other reference)

Any vulnerable person or group including (but not limited to) heads of state, national elected officials, witnesses and confidential informants, activists, and journalists
Threats against the government would be included under this policy. However, Facebook has not removed the posts despite multiple reports for violence.
Anti-vaxxers are continuing to become more and more unstable as the measles spread. Unless social media outlets ban anti-vaccine groups from spreading misinformation and organizing crimes, they will continue to use these platforms to organize their campaigns of terror.
For many in the anti-vax world, standing up for their belief is more important than the safety of others. At what point will Facebook and other social media platforms take these threats seriously?
Last week Facebook announced the removal of several alt-right groups, white supremacist groups, and individuals that promote violence from their platform. The company announced the ban of alt-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan late last week.
With multiple anti-vaccine pages promoting violence, the company needs to consider banning anti-vaccine groups from their site.
Threats against the government should be taken seriously no matter how insignificant they may seem. Facebook has a responsibility to remove these threads and report these people to authorities.

*Katie Joy is a columnist and hosts Without A Crystal Ball on Patheos Non-Religious Channel. She writes articles on parenting, disability advocacy, debunking pseudoscience, atheism, and crimes against women and children.

She co-hosts the YouTube show, “The Smoking Nun,” with Kyle Curtis on The Non-Sequitur Channel. The show airs weekly and tackles pseudoscience, current events, and crime stories.

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  • Friend

    So are they going to come at us with needles?

  • Ann Kah

    These people are creeps and these people are morons. But I suspect that overthrowing the government is not going to be easy for a group with approximately the same fighting power as “One Million Moms”.

  • frostysnowman

    Hahaha! A bunch of crunchy, entitled white people wanting to start a Civil War. Funniest thing I’ve read all day.

  • Friend

    And feed them microwaved food, so the microwaves will impurify their bodies from the inside.

  • WallofSleep

    “How many of you Would follow Me in a civil war?”

  • WallofSleep

    Right? And I don’t think you can actually call it a “Civil War” when it would be over in the time it takes to watch a modern sitcom, minus the commercials.

    Oh yeah?

  • frostysnowman

    But only if it’s full of MSG and gluten, and genetically modified as well.

  • WallofSleep

    So basically an average meal that no one but a raving loon would worry about eating?

    ETA: Although there are people with celiac’s disease and those with allergies to MSG.

  • jim

    Just wait until one gets sick and then they all will get sick and civil war is over.

  • guerillasurgeon

    My God, those two fellas in the middle are definitely grain fed. Probably not worry too much about recoil, but I can’t see them having the stamina for a long war. 🙂

  • Ира Зорькина

    Guys, wake up. You’ve been tricked and gaslighted. It’s not about measles at all. The hysteria is about MUMPS. The Merck is under investigation and on trial for product fraud, MMR vaccine’s being a fraud form the start. There’s 10000 cases of mumps every year in the USA, all infected have been vaccinated with MMR that’s supposed to protect against mumps. It doesn’t. The company is facing astronomical fines. That’s why it is trying to distract the public with ridiculous measles scare

  • Ира Зорькина

    the polls show anti-vaxers and pro-vaxers are approximately 45% to 55%. Almost a half of population. You take the math. You must have been lucky not to have a vaccine injured child in your close circle. Not everyone is this lucky

  • Ира Зорькина

    the funny thing is MSG and gluten allergies are the signs of immune system being damaged by vaccination.

  • Ира Зорькина

    thank you. We don’t need it. There’re still enough decent educated intelligent people in this country to stop government corruption and attempts to control our bodies

  • Faye Triantis

    Coercion by government doesn’t get anyone anywhere. It builds resistance. Parents have the right to protect their children. Stop the fearmongering. Do your research on vaccines.

  • WallofSleep

    (Looks at comments)

    Wow, you certainly have been attracting a fair number of idiotic loons lately KJ. You know what they say, if you’re catching flak that means you’re over target. Keep it up, KJ!

  • WallofSleep
  • Kronos One

    The only people who are paranoid and unhinged are the ones reading this drivel. Self defense is not violence. What is absolutely odd is that everyone knows vaccines kill and maim and yet think those who don’t want to partake are the “unhinged” ones.

  • WallofSleep

    “… everyone knows vaccines kill and maim…”

    You assholes are really coming out of the woodwork, aren’t you?

  • phatkhat

    Yes, I am allergic to MSG. I get really bad “twitchies” if I ingest the stuff. I can always tell if I have, even if the MSG is disguised on the ingredient list. Not life threatening, for sure, but damned annoying and uncomfortable.

  • phatkhat

    “everyone knows vaccines kill and maim”

    No, “everyone” does not “know” this. You people are the ones who aren’t doing your research – and I mean real research.

  • Johnny Uke man

    Since I am in that group and never saw much talk of overthrowing the government I’d call this propaganda. The bottom line is there are people in groups and nobody controls what they say or do. Everybody is on their own to comment anywhere on the web and no particular page is responsible for a comment any more than if I rally some troops in here. We the people are supposed to be in charge of the government anyways so there shouldn’t be anything to overthrow. Simply ensure it’s assembled by the lawful means it was established without corruption. I get the impression people in that group simply want responsible action upon their concerns unabated by billions of dollars of corporate greed

  • Mech610

    Big talk for people who could be done in by a sneeze.

  • Natural Immunity

    Violence is 100% unacceptable BUT people do have the right to protest and they do have the right free speech, even if that is speech you (or I) don’t like. There is also the power of the vote! Some of the comments here (pro vaccine) make it clear that people really don’t give a damn about anyone but themselves and they just make stuff up. I doubt half of you know that natural measles actually imparts higher passive immunity and before the introduction of the MMR measles in newborns and infants was almost unheard of. The vaccine actually offers a lower count of antibodies to be passed on from mother to child. For those who want to start screaming I am a Trump supporter or some other inane BS, I support neither party because they are different sides of the same coin.

  • al kimeea

    I don’t doubt you haven’t a clue… ‘unheard of’ LOL

  • al kimeea

    “research” – guffawing in unison

  • al kimeea

    Madison Square Gardens?!?!?!?! smh

  • al kimeea

    knitting needles, for the metaphorical win!!

  • Carla Graham

    Not to mention Merck & Co Inc. reported higher-than-expected first-quarter profits for 2019. Sales of the MMR measles vaccine soared 27% to $496 million. AKA how a routine childhood illness morphed into the bubonic plague.

  • Terri

    I’m wondering how people on this thread feel about JFK Jr. winning the lawsuit against Monsanto regarding glyphosate being carcinogenic?

  • Carra McClelland

    I especially like your Cyrillic name, comrade.

  • Ann Kah

    Deleted comment, I see. I was going to tell her/him that I wasn’t worried about those polls since much of the anti-vaxx fraction (and the polls that show that number) tended to be in Moscow…

  • Granny Good-Law

    The anti-vaxxers are absolutely correct. It’s the LAW. “That whenever
    any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends [Life, Liberty,
    Pursuit of Happiness], it is the Right of the People to alter or to
    abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on
    such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Forms, as to them
    shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

    Anyone tell me where this is from? NO GOOGLING, please!

  • Dude, there are screenshots. Stop trying to pull a CYA.

  • With regular salt, no Himalayan pink sea salt!

  • Just like seat belt laws? You know, things that keep you from dying?

    Hey, wanna form your own country? Go ahead. Good luck with that.

  • Yet another example of how anti-vaxxers are similar to racist hate groups. Those groups are constantly crying out for a “racial holy war” (“RAHOWA”) and wanting to secede, rebel, or otherwise break away from the USA.

  • Natural measles wipes away immunity. MMR is safe. And anti-vaxxers are the worst kind of liars.

  • Pretty much. They will go on about their “pure” children. It’s sickening.

  • Joe Bonomolo

    Baaaaaaaaa, Baaaaaaaa

  • Joe Bonomolo

    yep, you are an ewe!!! ewwwwwwww!

  • Yes, you can be sure Big Pharma is enjoying the efforts of all the anti-vaxxers. Thanks to their efforts to spread measles, Pharma’s profits are on the rise. Good job, AV’ers!

  • frostysnowman

    Just want to clarify – I am not making fun of anyone who has celiac or an actual MSG allergy. I do know those are read condition and I would never imply they aren’t. Now back to making digs at crunchy white people who avoid certain foods just because they can.

  • frostysnowman

    Most likely from previously unvaccinated people finally getting their shots because there are measles outbreaks all over the country right now (due to people like you spreading misinformation and fear about vaccines).

  • frostysnowman

    Probably nothing, since JFK, Jr. has been dead for years.

  • frostysnowman

    So, hooray, measles for everyone? You yourself are saying the vaccine IS effective.

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk
  • Gonzoline

    If they want to gather en masse and knowingly spread deadly pathogens, and frame their activities as the start of a new civil war… can we just bring them up on war crimes charges for use of biological warfare? That would absolutely tickle me. The schadenfreude would be almost as delicious as seeing that shipload of Scientologists get quarantined.

  • Lisa McLaughlin
  • Lisa McLaughlin
  • Omnicrom

    You are aware that Thiomersal hasn’t been used in vaccines for 20 years right?

  • phatkhat

    Actually, the profit margin for vaccines is pretty low. The big money is in treating the illnesses that spring from measles and mumps – sometimes many years later.

  • Omnicrom

    It is tragic that a child died.
    I wait for proof that a vaccine killed her.

  • Omnicrom
  • phatkhat

    If you are the one that spent all that time to compile the list, you must not have anything important to do. And I CERTAINLY do not have the time to spend to read all those links and find other research to debunk them. But I do know that all the fear-mongering “research” cited by anti-vaxxers has been debunked by medical science.

    I also know that I almost died from measles when I was 9 years old (in the 50s, so before MMR). I also know I had mumps at 17, and am partially deaf in one ear because of it. I WISH MMR had been around when I was a kid. Thankfully, polio vaccine appeared when I was in grade school, though not in time for some of my classmates.

    You people have come up in a day when all these diseases have been wiped out, and you have no idea what it is you are unleashing again.

    As to autism, I urge you to look at the huge amounts of all kinds of pesticides in our food and water. What kinds of additives are in our foods? Even if you eat organic, there is still pesticide in your body. How much time are kids using mobile devices? Are we sure there is no connection? (I don’t mean microwaves, either. I mean the lack of social interaction with real people in real time, and physical activity.) How much of the rise of autism is simply a matter of better diagnosis? When I was a kid, a disruptive kid was just that. Now, they’d be labeled as on the spectrum.


  • phatkhat

    I’m certainly a foe of corporate greed. But vaccines are actually one of the least profitable of medicines for Big Pharma.

    And yes, people ARE responsible for what is posted on their page, channel, blog, or whatever. That’s why there are rules and moderators.

  • phatkhat

    Flagged as spam. Repeatedly posting the same list in the same thread is spam.

    No matter how many times you post it, it is not any more valid.

  • phatkhat

    What has Monsanto and glyphosate got to do with vaccinations? I’m glad that people are recognizing that some of the ag chemicals have unwanted consequences. But vaccines are not ag chemicals.

  • phatkhat

    Good catch.

  • phatkhat

    I really think it is time to divvy up the US. Put all the anti-vaxxers, rebel flag wavers and bible-humpers (on a Venn diagram, I think there would be considerable overlap) in a few states, and let sane people live in the rest.

    You people may want to do what you want to do, but by doing so, you are preventing those who die of preventable disease from having a life.

  • phatkhat

    Ah, yes. “Purity”. Where have we heard that before.

  • Milo C

    Sure, we should all get natural measles instead. It only kills 1 in 500 children exposed to it.

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk

    common sense #vaccinessuck

  • Alienate

    Almost correct. The BIG Money is from treating the kids who got the Vaccines for measles and mumps…. sometimes many years later.

  • Alienate


  • Alienate

    So you do not know that Thiomersal is still used in the multi-shot vials of the Flu Shot? What else don’t you know? Smart Guy.

  • WallofSleep

    I didn’t think you were. I added my edit because I thought I might be coming off doing so.

  • Omnicrom

    I do. I was referring to the MMR Vaccine which is usually what Anti-Vaxxers trot out when talking about Thiomersal because that was the subject of Not-Doctor Wakefield’s sham of a “study”. I also know that the amount of Thiomersal in flu shots are not in quantities even close to causing toxicity problems. I also even know that logic or facts are irrelevant in this discussion because they are always irrelevant to Anti-Vaxxers. I, meanwhile, give a shit about facts and accuracy so I have gone and edited my post for clarity.

    Stop hurting children.

  • Omnicrom

    Projection is an unhealthy look.

    Stop hurting children.

  • I have. That’s why I vaccinate. Whoops.

  • I don’t need to know about your sex life….

  • Dude, TMI. And I thought furries were nuts…

  • Wow, if they suck, why am I still alive and kicking and autism free…?

  • Yeah, they’ll find out that running a country isn’t so easy.

  • Sorry, I read actual facts and not bullshit.

  • And I’m still alive.

  • Have you seen how expensive an ER visit is? Damn.

  • Treating them for what? Citation needed.

  • Jessie Swan

    That’s completely false. Vaccines are extremely profitable.

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk
  • Leanna Reece

    1. Why is “forced” in quotation marks? That’s misleading.

    2. 667 people were reported to have the measles in the US in 2014, per the CDC. So that’s not an outbreak, but 764 cases is an outbreak? (

    3. Few people are “anti-vax.” Most are ex-vax, PRO informed consent, and are not willing to give their body over to the government for experimentation.

    4. Where are the “multiple anti-vaccine pages promoting violence?” Oh yeah, there aren’t any promoting violence (at least to my knowledge). The writer showed screenshots of 3 individuals who posted as their lives and the lives of their children are being threatened. Who wouldn’t be a little upset when someone is threatening your family?

    5. Why doesn’t the author ADDRESS THE CONCERNS educated people have who have actually read countless studies? Why doesn’t she question why safety has not been demonstrated scientifically? Why doesn’t she ask why there have been no studies on the long term impact of the current schedule? Why doesn’t she point out that one can’t conclude a product safe if it’s tested against a similar product- that a true, double blind, randomized trial with an inert placebo is necessary to demonstrate safety? Why doesn’t she point out that this research has not been done?

    6. Girl needs to do some research.

    7. Don’t respond unless you have peer-reviewed studies, conducted by researchers without conflicts of interest, on substantial sample sizes, with minimal confounds, utilizing inert placebos in randomized groups to back your assertions. If you can provide these, I would love to engage in scientific discourse with you, as before I began researching this issue I (mistakenly) assumed vaccines had been demonstrated to be safe via the scientific method. 🙂

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk
  • Carra McClelland
  • phatkhat

    Interesting. I hadn’t really thought about that – more Russian trolls out to further sow dissension and maybe even make us sick. Hmmm.

  • LimeGecko

    Anti vaxx militias. Cute.

    I don’t know whether to hope this is Russian trolls or not… Facepalm

  • phatkhat

    Hey, now! I like the Himalayan salt! Not because it is healthier – it isn’t – but it tastes better than Morton’s. Really. And it looks pretty in its glass grinder (from Krogers, no fancy brand) on the table.

  • LimeGecko

    Vaccines have worked for a few hundred years though I genuinely would worry a little about the 19th century vaccines… Still it beats getting smallpox. Vaccines have been scientifically demonstrated for decades. However I share your skepticism that more than a handful of people are advocating violence.

  • Carra McClelland

    I was just in the ER last week. I have good insurance and it is going to be at least $1500 out of my pocket.

  • phatkhat

    Well, damn. Looks like some of my neighbors.

  • Carra McClelland

    A “routine childhood illness” that kills, blinds and renders people infertile. Right.

  • phatkhat

    Nope. Not grain fed at all. More like too much bacon and biskits ‘n’ gravy.

  • LimeGecko

    The Declaration Of Independence.

    However, no government on earth rejects the public health response necessary to outbreak and epidemic. Even hundreds of years ago, government authority to enforce quarantine in time of epidemic was almost universally acknowledged. And that’s what this will come down to if this becomes an epidemic or even a localized outbreak. Get vaccinated or don’t leave your house until the outbreak is over. Your call.

  • persephone

    That’s your argument. Wow. A true display of how stupid you need to be to be anti-vax.

  • persephone

    I like to ask them how they’re going to defend themselves against an A-10 run. *crickets*

  • LimeGecko

    Newborns typically have the same immunity as their mothers. So if their mothers were vaccinated or had had measles, they would be fine. By the time a baby is a year old however, their immune system is on its own. So the infant will either need to contract all these childhood diseases to gain immunity (and I would hate to watch a tiny child get mumps then measles then chickenpox then rubella then whooping cough then diphtheria then tetanus – and maybe one or two of these diseases would do the child no harm but getting them all would seriously risk blindness deafness and/or neurological damage), get vaccinated against all these diseases, or avoid exposure to them for life.

    The problem is, people skipping vaccinations means avoiding exposure for life is increasingly not an option. And I don’t want babies to start getting these diseases again.

  • LimeGecko

    And risks neurological damage or blindness for several times that many…

  • LimeGecko

    So overthrow big pharma might be more on the nose.

  • That’s nice, but is it a peer reviewed scientific study?

  • Oof. That sucks. 🙁

    I remember the bill my hubby got after an ER visit: $500+. Thankfully, I had a rainy day fund.

  • phatkhat

    Thank you.

  • phatkhat

    Well, if he thinks wearing seatbelts is sheeplike, call me a sheep, too.

  • phatkhat

    I see the doc is into vitamin C therapy, too. Well, alrighty, then.

  • phatkhat

    One has to look at the authors of the studies, and who is peer reviewing them. There are probably, if you look hard enough, a peer-reviewed study or two that prove the earth is flat, too.

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk
  • phatkhat

    There are a lot of questions raised in that story. If the child was not feeling well, why did the parents leave her alone without checking on her? Was she already dead when the parents found her? If so, where did the 114 degree fever come from? By the time any medical help arrived, I would think the body would have been cooling down. Also the story about the coroner is a little strange. I wouldn’t accept these FB stories – particularly second and third hand – without a rather large grain of salt.

  • phatkhat

    I do NOT believe in what people post on FB. Way too many trolls – Russian and otherwise. People looking for attention. People looking to stir something up. Nope. Not interested in your FB links. FB is a major problem in our society.

  • Omnicrom

    Now now, furries usually don’t advocate letting children get sick and possibly even die. Anti-vaxxers do. It’s inherent in the position, that’s why the Anti-vaxx position is evil.

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk

    if you didn’t worship at the altar of pharma you would believe the thousands of parents each year who are devastated by vaccine injury.
    fever is an accepted reaction to vaccine poison—some react more severely.
    Glyphosate opens the blood brain barrier by design allowing the vaccine poison to inflame.
    there is always a better way to prevent disease.

  • phatkhat

    I will criticize Big Pharma long and loud over their greed and monopolistic practices. However, they DO develop medicines that keep people alive and healthy. Including vaccines. With all the resistant bacteria, do we need to add viruses to the list of life-threatening diseases – especially preventable ones?

    Glyphosate opens the blood brain barrier by design

    Wait. What? Glyphosate is an herbicide. Are you saying plants have a blood-brain design that is the same as humans? (Or at all, for that matter.) And where does glyphosate factor in, anyhow? Oh. I googled it. More hysteria over nothing.

    I am not a fan of overuse of chemicals in agriculture, either herbicides or pesticides. Even IF they are not harmful to humans, they have a lot of side effects, like causing harm to subsistence farmers forced to buy expensive seed yearly. I’m also not keen on GMO. Will it hurt me? Probably not. But there is a lot we don’t know yet about long term effects on the ecosystem. But all that aside, the panic about glyphosate in vaccines is much ado about very little. Literally.

  • phatkhat

    I checked your link. Ok, it took me a while to track down exactly what this journal is. It seems to be an open access journal, which in itself is a little suspect, given the usual membership required to see more than an abstract. When I scrolled down through the sources for the “study”, AJ Wakefield jumped out at me. Hmm. Here is a snippet about “journals” such as this one, no matter how official sounding they are.

    The publisher, Multidisciplinary Digital Publishing Institute (MDPI),
    churns out nearly 160 scholarly journals a year, many of them of
    mediocre quality, according to Jeffrey Beall, an associate professor and
    librarian at the University of Colorado Denver, and one of the world’s
    leading experts on what he calls “predatory” open access publishing. …

    Predatory and mediocre journals are based on the model of
    open access publishing in which authors pay fees to have their work
    published online. However, unlike legitimate journals, they bombard
    academics with spam emails, accept almost all submissions and overstate
    the rigour of their peer-review processes. They also often conveniently
    neglect to mention publication fees until late in the process.


    I don’t trust your source.

  • phatkhat

    I’m about to go get a tetanus shot. Haven’t had one for over 10 years, and we are going into a remodel. Gotta rip out FILTHY carpet in this house we just bought, and tack strips will get you…

  • Rosemary McLean Van Gelderen

    30 B a year doesn’t seem like much does it?

  • Omnicrom

    What are you saying, oh brand new disqus account?

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk

    common vaccine ingredient:
    “Glyphosate herbicides have also been shown to destroy cell integrity, meaning they can break down the blood brain barrier and allow toxins in food, water, the environment and vaccines into the brain. This leads to increased brain damage, behavioral issues, learning disorders, and early onset dementia. Studies have shown that people with Alzheimer’s and autism have elevated levels of aluminum in certain areas of their brain. Aluminum and glyphosate herbicides have both been found in vaccines. Aluminum and glyphosate have shown to have a synergistic effect that is connected to gut dysbiosis and neurological disease that are characteristic of autism and Alzheimer’s disease. The FDA and CDC have refused to require testing to confirm these results of glyphosate in vaccines, but it is surmised that glyphosate is breaking down the blood-brain barrier and allowing the aluminum ( 6,150 mcg of aluminum is in the vaccines recommended vaccine schedule) in vaccines into the brain.”

  • phatkhat

    There are about 6 or 7 major vaccine makers. I couldn’t find a detailed breakdown of how much they make on each different vaccine, but Pfizer, for example, also makes animal vaccines, and I’m not sure but that your number doesn’t include ALL vaccines, both human and veterinary. I also came up with about $24 Bn, not 30. But, let’s not split hairs. I’m not saying they don’t make money, but it is their LEAST profitable product.

    Here’s a link that puts it in graphic format:

    The $24 billion vaccine market seems large but represents only 2% to 3% of a trillion-dollar, worldwide pharmaceutical industry.

    The interesting thing this article had, though, was this little jewel:

    Another point of comparison is the global alternative medicine market. That market, which includes homeopathic remedies and various supplements, powders, and teas, is a $34 billion industry, even though only one-third of the treatments have been tested.

    If pharmaceutical companies merely wanted to increase their profit margins, they would stop manufacturing vaccines and focus only on developing and selling drugs and alternative medicines.

  • phatkhat

    And this:

    About 1:609 to 1:1367 children who have contracted a measles infection will develop subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE), a rare chronic, progressive encephalitis that affects primarily children and young adults, caused by a persistent infection of the measles virus. The disease starts with measles infection,
    gradually progressing with psychological and neurological
    deterioration, which can include personality changes, seizures, and
    coma. It is nearly 100% fatal. It is incurable. And it only happens as a
    result of measles.

    Why would anyone risk this voluntarily?

  • Chris Sky

    Oh no. Not 700 cases of “measles.” Out of 350 million people. A disease with a survival rate of 99.9998% (Death rate of 0.2/100,000). Since 1960 BEFORE the vaccine was invented!

    Another fun fact. While idiots in the usa are trying to “mandate the mmr”

    Smart country’s like Japan have BANNED the mmr, acknowledging it’s more dangerous that the disease it’s “supposed” to protect you from!

  • Chris Sky

    700 people in a population of 350 million, for a disease with a survival rate of 99.9998 % before the invention of the vaccine is hardly a public health emergency or an epidemic 😀

    The mmr is worse than the measles.

    Which is why Japan… a country with 300% lower infant mortality rate (babies dying before their first birthday) than the usa… banned mmr in the entire country.

    Meanwhile you want it mandated here? 😀

  • Chris Sky

    Seatbelt don’t list among the “side effects” on the product “coma” “death” etc 🙂

    But nice try.

  • Todd Ranch King

    Interesting that you’re whining about so called threats to the government (a huge, heavily armed entity), and demanding the removal of pro-vax groups for the opinions of a select few (assuming they aren’t agent provocateurs), yet you aren’t calling for the removal of pro-vaxxers, let alone entire groups for the many thousands of them who are daily threatening violence against ex-vaxxers (who typically happen to be mothers who don’t have nearly the arms or might of the US government).
    Are you just that big of a hypocrite, or do you think the American empire is really and truly do weak that it’s about to crumble? And be brought to its knees by a bunch of breastfeeding women, with vaccine damaged children in tow?

  • Wendy Schaefer Kowalczyk
  • GrandmaB

    I am a member of that group and must have missed those posts, or else they were removed by the Administration as soon as they were posted. Also, I have seen many, many trolls crash the ex-vaxxer groups to stir up trouble. It is obviously in the best interest of vaccine manufacturers that certain information not get out to the general public because it will put question in the minds of independent thinkers as to the real safety and efficacy of vaccines. So the author of this article can post anything she wants from the pages, but she cannot be assured who is actually writing the posts she finds offensive. So it could be true or it could just be more fake news to cause an uproar and try to censor free speech. Regardless, you have to wonder what a law-abiding citizen/parent is supposed to do when the government of a ‘free nation’ decides they are going to mandate that innocent healthy children be injected with known carcinogens and neurotoxins. Look at the history in our country with vaccines, pharmaceutical products, medical research, etc. It is full of injustice, mistakes, and using humans as experimental guinea pigs; i.e. Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, Cutter polio shot, SV40 in polio shots, whistleblowers against Merck safety research of MMR, lawsuit against Merck for falsifying efficacy rate of mumps portion of MMR-II vaccine, all the twisted data in research in order to arrive at their pre-determined outcome, etc. Look at asbestos, cigarettes, BPA, mercury fillings, DDT, leaded gasoline and thalidomine along with all the prescription drugs that have been removed from the market. These were all considered safe at one time — definitely showing that SCIENCE IS NEVER SETTLED. LEARN THE RISK !!!!!!

  • Science isn’t supposed to be settled. It’s intended to keep improving as new data comes in. That’s a feature, not a bug.

  • phatkhat

    Glyphosate (the use of which I am NOT defending) is so universally used that you can find traces of it in almost everything, including the food we eat – even organic – the water we drink, the air we breathe. The toxins we ingest will go throughout our systems with or without your fear-mongering. The amounts in the vaccines are trivial compared to what we ingest in a salad.

  • Braitty

    Hey, leave us knitters out of this!

  • Omnicrom

    *Children who have been protected from preventable diseases by vaccines in tow.

    Fixed your last sentence for you 🙂

  • H L

    Here are some of the millions of death threats and vile comments FROM PRO VAXXERS against families with vaccine injuries and lost loved ones due to vaccine injury!!!!!!!!!! You don’t have to look far to find such comments all over the Internet but yet, as a journalist, you fail to find them? You should consider to change your profession. Pharma presstitute is not an honorable job. In the future, a decade or so, people like you will be jobless because your names and false reporting will be remembered but not wanted by an awaken society.

  • LimeGecko

    You expect me to believe Japan doesn’t vaccinate against measles? It’s a localized public health emergency in an outbreak area for people with compromised immune systems who can’t get vaccinated, like cancer patients, and for people too young to be vaccinated, infants under one year old. If this was happening in my neighborhood and I had a young baby I would be very worried. Measles is not like chickenpox. It’s very painful and it takes weeks to recover and depresses your immune system for months. The risk of complications is much higher, including a really nasty terminal degenerative neurological condition which can show up seven or eight years later, and is incurable and always kills.

  • LimeGecko

    The minuscule risk from vaccines is more than outweighed by the memory of hundreds of children in every state confined to an iron lung for life.

  • Carra McClelland

    Japan vaccinated against Measles, Mumps and Rubella. In fact, as a country they have a high vaccination rate. They don’t use the same MMR show as we do here, but they do vaccinate. Try again.

  • Carra McClelland

    I am going to touch on the free speech argument you are using. That only keeps the government for coming for you if you speak out against them. It does not mean consequence free speech in the market of ideas. If you are being a jerk, people are allowed to call you out on it, you are not protected from that. If you are spreading misinformation, people are allowed to call you out on that, you are not protected from that. Privately held organizations such as Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, etc. do not have to leave misleading or dangerous content on their platforms, they are not the government.

  • GrandmaB

    Phatkhat — so you are in favor of laws that mandate that parents protect their children from all forms of exposure to negative health influences? I guess the fast-food chains will be closing and parents will be required to breastfeed their children for a year, use cloth diapers, never allow their children to eat processed foods or foods high in sugar or sugar substitutes or be around second-hand smoke. Yeah, throw out the pop, alcohol, energy drinks, fried foods, candy bars. Just keep adding in more and more boosters and hope no one has the memory to remember what life was like before our children were pumped full of known neurotoxins and carcinogens.

  • The thing about flu vaccines in particular is that they have to be researched every year to make an educated guess six months in advance as to which strains will be prevalent during the upcoming flu season. That’s why the vaccine sometimes does not protect — another strain becomes dominant, and there isn’t enough turnaround time to produces a more targeted batch. That kind of R&D eats away at the profits pretty fast.

  • Chris Sky

    Japan BANNED mmr. Don’t try to sugarcoat it :D.
    The exact vaccine they want to “mandate” in the usa.

    Also. Don’t lie. Japan may vaccinate. But of all developed nations, Japan has the least vaccines (and lowest autism and infant mortality)

    While the usa has the most vaccines and highest autism and infant mortality rate. In fact 300% higher infant mortality rate.
    Bec the usa does things like give new born babies vaccines! Japan does not.

  • Chris Sky

    Japan banned the mmr. Measles/mumps/rubella triple live virus combo shot! As multiple vaccine together compound te chance of side effects!

    They have individual vaccines for measles, and other viruses. But they don’t push them or mandate them.

    They also don’t give babies vaccines the day they are born.

    Japan gives the least vaccines (of any developed nation)

    Has the lowest autism and lowest infant mortality rate.

    Usa… most vaccines (including new born vaccines) highest autim, highest infant mortality rate.

    Measles takes a few days to recover. And the “treatment” has been the same since the mid 50’s. Rest and have some tylenol to bring down fever if required! … measles has a death rate of 0.2/100,000 since 1960. Pre vaccine 😉

    But let’s injet toxins, poisons, live virus, and potential side effects including “death” to “protect” against a disease that 700 out of 350 million have… and only 1 in 500,000 will die from 😀

    FACTS don’t care what you “believe” btw.

  • Carra McClelland

    ^ Did not read the paper I linked. Doesn’t actually know what Japan does and does not vaccinate against. Can not cite any reliable sources for what actually causes the difference in infant mortality rate (hint: It isn’t vaccines).

  • phatkhat

    If the anti-vaxxers would just use their energy to protest the real robber barons of Pharma, like Shkreli and his ilk, who raise the price of cheap drugs overnight to exorbitant amounts – and there are plenty of those stories with facts and figures to back them up! Instead they tilt at windmills and make other people sick.

  • LimeGecko

    I would turn that statement right back at you and continue to resist anti vaxxers until I’m sure polio isn’t returning to our shores.

  • phatkhat

    Side effects are usually all the possibilities, including the direst ones. It’s kind of a CYA for the company. Plus, it allows consumers to know what to watch for. ANYthing can have an allergic response. Look at the old staple of school lunches: peanut butter. People get stung by bees and die. I’ve taken a lot of different medicines with no ill effects, and some that had very unpleasant side effects. I took penicillin a LOT as a kid (in the 50s, antibiotics were over-prescribed), with no problems. Then, in my teens, I had a severe infection, and the penicillin nearly did me in. I was rushed to the hospital with a severe reaction. I cannot take penicillen to this day.

    There is no guarantee. One balances the dangers of getting a disease with the tiny chance of a side effect. However, there are a lot of cases where people are blaming deaths on vaccines when there is correlation but no definite causation present.

  • phatkhat

    Maybe you are a young grandma… I grew up with the specter of polio. I nearly died from measles. I lost some hearing from the mumps I had as a teen. I still have a few scars from chicken pox – some kids had disfiguring scars. Fortunately I never had whooping cough or diphtheria.

    They brought the Salk vaccine to the schools, and I don’t think ANYone opted out. Polio was also a “childhood disease”, but it killed and maimed thousands of kids. Any tiny risk the vaccine had was far outweighed by the benefits.

    People who have always lived in a world with vaccines that prevent all those “childhood diseases” have no idea what it was like before.

    Your scenario is pretty silly. The government is highly unlikely to ever do more than educate about the other issues you raise. Like fast food and breast-feeding. Cloth diapers? Really? Well, they are better for the environment, but most people are not going to give up the convenience. Ironically, the cloth diaper crowd is more likely to be anti-vaxx. As to second hand smoke… There IS a law against smoking in your vehicle while your children are in it here in Arkansas.

    A lot of your ilk are anti-abortion, but want CHOICE for themselves in medical matters. Kinda hypocritical.

  • phatkhat

    Cases of imported measles continue to occur in Japan. Japan has successfully eliminated endemic measles transmission and sustained this status since March 2015 through both high vaccination coverage and rapid detection of and response to every case of measles. In 2016, routine vaccination coverage was 97% for the first dose (one year of age) and 93% for the second dose (year before entrance to primary school, usually five years of age); serological surveys have confirmed that the proportion of antibody-positive (particle agglutination titer ≥16) individuals aged two years or more has remained at 95% or above nationally.

  • phatkhat

    Chicken pox is no joke, either. It can leave disfiguring scars. Not to mention shingles years later.

  • Chris Sky

    Once again. This has nothing to do with anything I said. I said Japan banned the “MMR” vaccine. Not all vaccines. Or the single measles vaccine.

    I also said Japan has lowest vaccination schedule of all developed nations

    Japan has the lowest autism and infant mortality rate of any developed nation.

    Usa highest vaccination schedule in the developed world.
    Vaccinations to new born babies
    Highest infant mortality rate in the developed world. (300% higher than japan)
    And highest rates of autism in the world. 1 in 35 and rising!

    Why can nobody address any of these facts, yet just keep ignoring and offering up contextual tid bits of irrelevant information? 🙂

  • Omnicrom

    I do not defend a single thing said in that poster because death threats are always hideous and never justifiable. The sole stand-out is the comment by one Kevin Wenger who correctly identifies that refusing to vaccinate children is child abuse and could be considered possibly lethal negligence.

    On the other hand it amuses me that the top-rightmost post there is clearly a false flag from an Anti-Vaxxer, only Anti-Vaxxers talk about “Vaccine injured kids” (you yourself prove that by talking about “vaccine injury” like it’s a thing in the real world) and the fact you’re sharing that in your image makes me question whether you’re arguing in good faith. I will always always ALWAYS speak out against death threats and threats of violence. Will you? Are you going to similarly repudiate the Anti-Vaxxers who descended as a ravening swarm upon Audrey Paine when she spoke out at her frustration that her daughter was the first child to suffer from measles in the state of Alabama in nearly two decades (a figure arrived at thanks to the power of Vaccines)? How about the parents of every other child who are viciously, pointlessly castigated by Anti-Vaxxers when their children are burdened with the avoidable tragedy of infection by preventable diseases?

    You talk a big game about “an awaken society” [sic] and how it’s bad to be a “Pharma presstitute” [sic], but what do you really want? I want a reduction in harm, always. I want fewer people slinging death threats no matter who they are or where they’re going. And I want fewer children to have to suffer injury and even death from a totally preventable cause. What do you want Anti-Vaxxer? Your words are making children suffer and you are causing lasting harm. Is tone more important than action? Prove it.

    Vaccinate your kids.

  • Chris Sky

    “Tiny chance of side effect” “dangers of getting a disease”

    Measesls survival rate without vaccine. 99.9998% (Death rate of 0.2/100,000)

    MMR “moderate side effects” 1 in 10 chance… “fever” “rash” “seizures” “measles”

    Less common side effects:
    “Deafness” “coma” “death”

    The vaccine insert then goes on to say “chances of side effects could be compounded with the addition of more vaccines.”

    …. So don’t vaccinate against.a disease that only 700 out of 350 million people have and only 1 out of 500000 die from…. Or vaccinate guarantee poisons, toxins, preservatives live virus, with unknown effects and a 10% chance of catching measles, or seizures… and a smaller chance of death.

    Hmmm… really tough decision 😀

  • phatkhat

    The vaccine/autism connection has been debunked. If Japan has less autism, perhaps we should look at other differences. Perhaps the fact they have single-payer means better pre- and post-natal care for babies and mothers? Japan has a much different culture, and their eating habits are also different. Japan is a culture that stresses the good of the whole, the US is all about the individual. I’m not sure comparisons between the US and Japan can ever be really valid.

    The only vaccine given before 2 months is Hepatitis A, and that is because infants are at risk.

    The measles rash may go away in a few days, but the recovery is significantly longer. People can and do die of measles. I came close. I was given gamma globulin shots to boost my immune system. I’m still here, I guess it worked. But even if 99.9% percent survive the disease itself, there can be long-term problems as Lime pointed out. And the fatal neurological disorder is far more common than people realize.

    A complication of measles that kills children years
    after they have been infected is more common than previously thought,
    according to disturbing data released Friday….

    The complication is a neurological disorder that can lie dormant for years
    and then is 100 percent fatal. Researchers don’t know what causes the
    virus to reactivate, and there is no cure once it does. The only way to
    prevent the disorder is by vaccinating everyone possible against

    Measles is an extremely contagious respiratory infection caused by a virus.
    Once common in the United States, it was eliminated nationally in 2000,
    but has made a comeback, mostly because of the growing number of people
    who refuse to vaccinate their children or delay those vaccinations, experts say.

    The first MMR dose is typically administered at 12 to 15 months of age.
    (Babies may be vaccinated at age 6 months or older if they are at risk
    of exposure to measles, for instance if they are traveling to an area
    with an outbreak.) Unvaccinated babies can be infected with measles and
    later develop this complication, which is called subacute sclerosing
    panencephalitis, or SSPE.

    Scientists once thought the risk of developing SSPE was about 1 in 100,000. Recent
    research in Germany among children who got measles before they turned 5
    identified a rate as low as 1 in 1,700. But the new findings,
    by researchers at the David Geffen School of Medicine at the University
    of California in Los Angeles and the California public health agency,
    found that for babies who get measles before being vaccinated, the rate
    is 1 in 609.

    Are you feeling lucky?

  • phatkhat

    The USA has the high infant and maternal mortality rates because of POVERTY, you dolt. Lack of pre and post-natal care. Poor diet. Overall worse health. Obesity. Diabetes. It has NOTHING to do with vaccines. Correlation does NOT equal causation.

  • phatkhat

    *short* life. FIFY

    Went to school with a kid who had polio. He was really unhealthy after, and died very young. He was a nice kid, too.

  • phatkhat

    Well said.

    There are a lot of shitty people out there, who seem to enjoy saying really cruel things. The internet’s anonymity seems to have given every asshole out there a platform and megaphone to announce their petty hatreds.

  • phatkhat

    700 THIS year. Next year it will be way more. And what about SSTE, hmmm?

  • al kimeea

    Mum knitted me a comfy cable knit that I wore out 25 years ago

  • Zetopan

    “I can’t see them having the stamina for a long war.”

    Or even a long walk.

  • Chris Sky

    LOL I don’t know what you’re trying to “prove here”

    Your own source confirms that Japan Banned the MMR vaccine!
    From your source:
    “Also Japan introduced a MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine in 1989 but was forced to ban it four years later after about 2,000 people suffered side effects that included aseptic meningitis.

    This led to a revision of the Preventive Vaccination Law in 1994 that recategorized vaccination from being mandatory to just optional.”

  • Chris Sky

    “Correlation does not equal causation”

    When the product (vaccines) list on every. Single. Vaccine. “Potential side effect is death” .then goes on to say “side effect chances are compounded by admisinistering multiple vaccines.”

    So… you have a product that says “this could kill you, and the more of these you inject, the higher chance you have of dying”

    “Causation doesn’t equal correlation” does not apply, because they are already ADMITTING a correlation between vaccines and death! Listed on every vaccine!

    But nice try tiger 😉

  • Chris Sky

    Ooooooo… not 700 cases of a diseases that kills 1 out of 500,000. (Even before invention of the vaccine)

    Lol lol meanwhile the mmr gives guaranteed toxins, poisons, live viruses, and a 1 out 10 chance of catching measles!

    700 out of 350 million. …. Vs 1 out 10 + the addition of injecting toxins 😀

    …. Hmmm tough choice if you have an IQ above room temperature!

  • Chris Sky

    Buddy… I get that your a vaccine shill for big pharma.

    But nothing you say can change the fact.

    MMR is more dangerous than Measles.

    Which is why Japan banned MMR.

    Measles: 700 cases out of 350 million people.
    Mmr: side effects in 1 in 10 people!

    Measles survival rate? 99.9998%
    Vaccine survival rate? Unknown.

    You rush out and get that vaccine that a smarter, healthier country banned.

    There’s plenty of “connection” between vaccines and death. Which is why Japan that gives less vaccines, hass less babies dying :D. “Causation doesn’t equal correlation” does not apply because even the vaccine manufacturers correlate death with their vaccines as displayed on their own packaging!

  • Chris Sky

    Ya because polio was “wiped out by the vaccines”. Why don’t you check out the 500,000 cases of “non polio paralysis” (all the effects of polio, without actually being referred to as polio) directly caused by the oral polio vaccine in India 🙂

    It’s easy to say diseases are “wiped out” when you simply call them something else, after you intentionally infected them!

    Another fun fact jonas Salk the guy who created/invented the original polio vaccine, testified in court (after the vaccine campaign was suspended due to vaccine damage on people). That the vaccine did not work. They had to create an all new vaccine, then admitted “sorry everybody we injected 98 million Americans with contaminated polio vaccine containing sv-40 virus known to increase a myriad of cancers significantly! …. And now we have 1 in 3 Americans getting cancer.

    Fun fact 3: polio deaths were reduced by more than 50% and we’re continuing to drop, before the invention of the first vaccine 😉

  • LimeGecko

    Go ask anyone over 60 about the nightmare of walking up in an iron lung. Polio didn’t go away by magic. And it’s not gone yet in a few countries, including India and Pakistan where vaccine providers are sometimes killed by militants. All it will take is people traveling from those countries to an under vaccinated population.

    But yes there is a new version of a paralytic disease showing up in small clusters about every other year now. They are trying to narrow down what virus is causing it. Diseases mutate. The parents of those children would have jumped at the chance if there’d been a vaccine for it. But it’s going to take a few years to isolate it then make a vaccine.

  • phatkhat

    The US has the highest economic inequality and the highest rate of POVERTY in the developed world. Why is it so difficult for you to understand that there is more going on here than vaccinations? Infant mortality is related to pre-natal care, which is sadly lacking in many communities in the US – particularly minority communities, and they have the highest rates of infant – and maternal – mortality. They also have the highest poverty rates.

    You are impervious to facts, no matter how many of us present them, or how many times, or how much proof we show. Oy, vey!

  • phatkhat

    I’m not your “buddy”. I happen to be female. And I am not a shill for big pharma. I am a proponent of single payer and price controls on pharmaceuticals.

    MMR is NOT more dangerous than measles. And, evidently, there are different brands of MMR made from different lines of cells. Some are safer and more efficacious than others. There are also medical contraindications to administering the vaccines. Merck recommends that their MMR NOT be given with other shots. This is where having a doctor you can trust is important. And making sure that you also do your due diligence, and talk to the doctor. Don’t let them buffalo you for their convenience – or the financial convenience of your insurance company.

    Maybe1 in 10 people do have side effects. But the vast majority of them are minor annoyances like soreness or achiness, just like flu shots. They are not dropping like flies from vaccines.

    BTW, yes 700 cases out of 350M people. Know why? Because MOST people have been vaccinated, and we still have that herd immunity. Most of the cases are in communities where they don’t vaccinate. And when the population at large doesn’t vaccinate, guess how many cases there will be?

  • phatkhat

    More people are getting cancer because more people are living longer, and because people have unhealthy lifestyles. As we age, our systems start breaking down – I know from experience. Things like cancer are unwanted mutations of our code. Interestingly, our pets are living longer and getting more cancers, too. And they haven’t gotten polio or MMR vaccines.

    Actually, studies showed that there was no noticeable increase in cancer in people who got SV40 and those who did not. There was a longitudinal study across several countries.

    I can find NOTHING that indicates polio was declining before the vaccine. At least not from reputable scientific sites.

  • A. Noyd

    Japan in no way has less autism. In fact, contrary to the blatherings of the troll, Japan is often reported to have the highest autism rates in the world, but it’s hard to say how accurate that is what with vast inconsistencies in diagnostic criteria and coverage across borders. The rates I’ve seen cited for Japan are around 1 in 55 to 1 in 68, and that sounds a little too conservative given my experience.

    The more socially adept autistic kids here end up in regular classes at school, and there’s usually one or two per class of 30-40 kids. Then there are a couple autistic kids in each school who are either in special ed classes or who are truants within the school. The rest, with more significant impairment, go to special schools for the disabled. At least, this is all true of public schools in the area where I work.

    As for the kids kept in regular classes, they still show a whole variety of classic characteristics. Some are non-verbal or have speech delays, some have no affect, some can’t interpret expressions and gestures well, some get hyper-fixated on things, some have executive dysfunction, and so on. Most of them have official diagnoses that their parents have shared with the schools. I make it my business to know this so I can accommodate and support them.

    So yeah, whatever the actual rate of autism is in Japan, it’s not low by any means. And it actually offends me that the troll is claiming otherwise since I see how hard my autistic students work every day to navigate a society that isn’t built for them. They deserve recognition for that, not erasure!

  • 24CaratHooligan

    Japan may have BANNED the mmr (in 1993) but weirdly, autism rates continued to rise and spiked well after that… cherry-picking much?

  • Chris Sky

    Ya… they banned mmr, but then still increased the total number of vaccines given, and surprise… autism rates rose as well, as you pointed out. 🙂

    And they banned the mmr because of a myriad of “side effects” including over 2000 cases of meningitis from the mmr vaccine! Which just goes to show you never know what adverse health issue you can get!

    But regardless.

    Japan banned mmr.
    Japan has the least aggressive vaccination schedule (in the developed world)
    Japan has the lowest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

    And since the vaccines state right on the package “side effects include death” and they admit “the more vaccines administered the higher chance of death”

    Causation DOES equal correlation because the vaccine manufacturers (and the government) admit that vaccines can kill!
    So logically… more vaccines given – higher chance of death.

    Which is why Japan has 300% less babies dying before their first birthday than the usa, who literally starts vaccinating before the baby is 24 hours old!

  • 24CaratHooligan

    Not sure where to go with this one since opening your front door can lead to death. I’ve never seen the packet a vaccine came in but I still don’t have “can cause death” printed on my door. Anything and everything carries the risk of death, I’m still trying to get my head round the fact that people can be seriously injured by a fucking tea cosy but there is no limit on human stupidity. Lets just have a quick look at a snippet from Oxford University (not as good as Hull, but one can’t have everything) “for example, 1 in 5000 children develop encephalitis as a complication of measles, but less than 1 in a million develop encephalitis as a complication of the MMR vaccine”. Just FYI 5000 is MUUUCH smaller than 1,000,000.
    And while we’re here, Japan has a highly educated population who tend to research proper medical help rather than relying on crushed woodlice or whatever is fashionable in the Ozarks these days, therefore their children receive prompt and effective healthcare rather than becoming the subject of someone’s desperate Facebook like-farming. Have a read of this Twitter thread and VACCINATE YOUR DAMN KIDS.

  • phatkhat

    Thank you! That was very interesting. I know little about Japan’s inner workings. I lived in Germany for many years, and have a pretty good idea of their educational system, but have never been to Asia at all. I’ve had many Japanese friends, mostly Nisei, who have informed me about the culture, but there is a lot I do not know! And that is why I said “IF” they have less autism. Perhaps they just do a better job of integrating them – because the Japanese are more formal and not as outwardly “friendly” as Americans, I would think Aspies and other high-functioning but socially awkward people might not be seen as so weird as here. But, that’s just my conjecture.

    The troll will never give up, but hopefully some lurkers may learn from the exchanges. Actually, I’ve learned a lot by researching what they say and what real scientists and medical people say in rebuttal!

  • Chris Sky

    Lol without the mmr vaccine 700 out of 350 million got measles!

    With the mmr vaccine 1 out of 10 get measles! (Or seizures) lol (as written on the vaccine insert, which you admit you’ve never seen!)

    700 out of 350 million is a lot less chance than 1 in 10. 😉

    then you pretend that there’s so many other factors larger than multiple vaccinations that affect the health of a newborn baby in its first year of life… meanwhile you’ve never even looked at a vaccine package. Can’t even name any of the vaccine ingredients. Have no “reason” to explain why Japan banned mmr while usa is trying to mandate it!

    Then pretend you “know” what you’re talking about!

  • Kira699

    Look at the bright side…all the anti vaxxers would be destroyed along with the administration…then just sanitize the place by burning it down…all of Washington…then rebuild. Who sees a down side to this??? Trump and admin, terminally ill or dead. but remember one thing. Alll these anti vaxxers were vaccinated as children.

  • Tor Iver Wilhelmsen

    Have you tried “math”? It’s very easy. You observe that $20 for a vaccine lasting for years if not a lifetime is LESS money than $1000s for medicines if you contract a preventable disease.

  • A. Noyd

    The Japanese tendency to avoid direct eye contact might suit a lot of autistic people, but that’s about all I can think of that would make Japanese society inherently easier for them.

    Levels of formality in Japan depend on a whole host of variables and complex, overlapping in-group/out-group dynamics. There’s not just one set of social rules, but a broad, ever-moving spectrum of rules. This means that it’s actually quite difficult for autistic people to manage. (The rules aren’t easy for neurotypical people either, going by the number of how-to books and seminars available!)

    And while the image of Japanese people is that they’re always formal, in-group behavior is often more informal and intimate than in other cultures. Japanese people even go out of their way to create situations to dispense with any and all restraint, such as work parties.

    But whatever the level of formality, maintaining group cohesiveness is very important. Individuals are expected both to anticipate the needs of others without being told and minimize their own needs so as not to trouble others.

    Lots of autistic people have trouble anticipating others’ needs. Or, if they can manage it, they might not be good at understanding how to address those needs. Failing at this is most definitely noticed. It’s often assumed to be willful, so rather than seen as merely weird, it gets resented. But when expectations are habitually left unstated, autistic people are at a disadvantage no matter how much they want to live up to social norms.

    Furthermore, autistic people start off with special needs. Many of those needs cannot be minimized to a socially acceptable degree. So they often get further resented for seeming to take more than their “fair share” or making “extra work” for others. Even if being accommodated means they can make significant contributions to a group, it’s those initial accommodations that stand out in other people’s minds.

    All of these issues, however, are acknowledged by Japanese people themselves. There are many awareness-raising campaigns and programs to help people understand autism, especially in schools.

    And plenty of liberally minded people are already eager to accommodate and include autistic people. They think the core principles of Japanese society are in no way weakened by accepting people for who they are and getting rid of the expectation that everyone’s needs should be the same. Rather, they see that it’s better for groups to be diverse, so they seek to change intolerant and inflexible norms. But as norms are typically slow to change, autistic people in Japan still face a lot of difficulties and prejudice.

  • phatkhat

    Fascinating! I don’t currently have any Japanese friends – our area is pretty homogeneous – but when I did, it was in an international environment, and a long time ago. Before autism was much of a thing. This is very informative. I always wanted to visit Japan. Thanks for the little peep into the culture. A lot I never thought about, but now makes sense. LOL, the one Japanese person I follow is Marie Kondo. I think she may be a little OCD, but love her books.

  • Omicron Persei 8

    This is a fight they (AV’s) WILL NOT win. Do they not pay attention to the news? Our government SPECIALIZES in all things war-related. They would absolutely LOVE to have all of them in one place!! It would make their jobs so much easier. I will admit that I don’t like the government all that much either but if they think they truly need to live in a world filled with all the diseases their bodies can handle, they’re going to have to do it in a different country or somehow make their own country somewhere else. They need to keep in mind, though, that as soon as they leave the U.S., their fight is only just beginning. They will now have an even longer list of things to be paranoid about. People aren’t going to politely disagree with them when they try to dispute facts like they do here. They’re going to go after them. I’ve been to countries that are really poor and destitute. I’ve seen the good that vaccines do for people. Anti Vaxxers only THINK they know what hard times and persecution is. Wait until they get out in the real world. It’s literally going to eat them alive.

    All I can say is good luck. They’re REALLY going to need it.

  • KneadingNittles


  • Todd Ranch King

    Not only a moron who thinks it’s cute, but one with zero reading comprehension. Yet, people should trust you know what you’re talking about regarding vaccinations.
    Any idiot who says that vaccines don’t damage children has never read a vaccine insert and is, thus, unqualified to even speak regarding the topic. Alas, though, you think that because you have a tongue and a talking head on the television telling you what it is safe to think that your ignorant drivel must be worth subjecting others to.

  • se habla espol

    Fo years, I’ve tried to find a flu vaccine available to me that had Thimerosol in it. None. Nada. All anybody has are the single-dose vials without my autism booster ;-}. Maybe if I go to a different state?

  • se habla espol

    Sure. Vaccines are quite profitable: to the anti-vax industry. They’re just low margin to the manufacturers.

  • Mike Stevens

    Not only did autism rates continue to rise, but they then suffered huge epidemics of measles and mumps, killing and injuring hundreds more children. They are now starting to see cases of congenital rubella too.
    Well done Japan for a wonderful demonstration of a Lose-Lose intervention.

  • Mike Stevens

    Interesting. You say this:
    “Lol without the mmr vaccine 700 out of 350 million got measles!
    With the mmr vaccine 1 out of 10 get measles!”

    followed by this:
    “Then pretend you “know” what you’re talking about!”


  • Omnicrom


  • Chris Sky

    Idiot when somebody gets vaccine induced measles as a “side effect” they simply call it a “side effect” and don’t “count” you as “infected”. Otherwise technically since you’re getting injected with ” live measles virus” every vaccine is somebody being “infected”. ….. Ignorance!

    Another example? They gave the oral polio vaccine to millions in India. 500,000 got “polio paralysis” aka polio, but because it was directly caused by the vaccine, they call it “vaccine induced polio paralysis”. … all the effects of polio with a different name! And then at the same time declare polio ” eradicated” while 500,000 children are laying paralysed and dying from the polio vaccine.

    So ya. You’re not very bright.

    You can also simply look at the vaccine insert, read through the the “moderate” (1 in 10) side effects and you’ll see “rash” “fever” “seizures” “measles” … but but but even if you get lessons, fever and all the symptoms of measles after being vaccinated it’s just a “vaccine reaction” and not “real measles” so it “doesn’t count” 😉

  • Mike Stevens

    ”500,000 got “polio paralysis” aka polio, but because it was directly caused by the vaccine, they call it “vaccine induced polio paralysis”. ..

    “…So ya. You’re not very bright.”

    I assume you are referring to the cases of Non Polio Acute Flaccid Paralysis (NPAFP) in India.
    A). These were identified during the enhanced clinical and epidemiological active surveillance program introduced alongside the polio eradication vaccination campaign in India.
    B). There were 50,000 cases identified during the 13 years of surveillance, not “500,000”.
    C). These cases were all shown by viral isolation or PCR analysis to be due to viruses other than polio virus, hence the definition “Non Polio”, and excluding vaccine polio strains as the cause.

  • Chris Sky

    … when all esle fails.. Simply lie. Of course you can cite any source to back up and the lies you just told so here’s one to prove me right, and you a liar.

    “While India’s oral polio vaccine (OPV) drives have eliminated polio from the country, they have also resulted in over 490,000 cases of paralysis during 2000—2017, says a new study based on national surveillance statistics. “.

    490,000 I said ” 500,000″.

    Furthermore: “The study suggests that OPV (oral polio vaccine) were responsible for inducing paralysis and speculates that “repeated doses of the live virus vaccine delivered to the intestine may colonise the gut and alter the viral microbiome of the intestine”.

    So once again. Just under 500,000 were given “non polio paralysis” (exactly the same as polio!). Derived from the Oral Polio Vaccine. The “55000” you cite is simply in only 1 year out of the almost decades long vaccination program.

    But as usual. Partial truth. With the important parts “omitted” (on purpose) combined with “ridicule” to try and bolster your position.

    Which all falls apart when I can cite my sources and quote my sources…. And you can’t … because you’re lying!

  • renee_jackson

    Here’s a great way to stop the spread
    of diseases! Tell those same parents that don’t want to vaccinate they can home school their kids. Those same kids are not allowed in public places as well like restaurants store or any place of business unless it’s a hospital or drs office!

  • Jeremy Alan Wade

    Guess what that has never been suggested. I am in the group. And obviously the author doesnt even understand the group name. We are juat against mandatory vaccines. We believe in medical choice. Sorry to say it but if you think the medical choice for a woman to get an abortion why cant we decide what is put into our children. Its so sad that not a single one of you even looked up anything about the group. Maybe research before you jump to conclusions

  • Boomergirl

    Pro vaxxers are the unhinged ones. Anti-vaxxers are the ones explaining that 11 measles cases in CA this year is hardly reason for mandating vaccinations. Chill out. NY and CA and IL have over 95% vaccination rates, more than enough for herd immunity. I had natural measles as a small child, piece of cake, 5 days of a mild illness, now I have lifetime immunity. I had natural chicken pox, mumps, rubella, and whooping cough, too. Also lifetime immunity. And I was immune compromised so I couldn’t get the shots, and I survived.

  • bouncedancer

    Ha ha ha, skepticalraptor is none other than Dr. Paul Offit (aka Dr. Profit), the doctor who makes the rotavirus vaccine which caused babies’ intestines to telescope onto itself. This vaccine maker also gets to set vaccine policies. I thought that kind of collusion was illegal.

  • bouncedancer

    If you read up on the history of vaccines, you’ll find out that ALL communicable diseases dropped by 90 to 98% BEFORE vaccines were introduced, even diseases for which there were no vaccines. Because of better sanitation and nutrition and the cessation of child labor.

  • bouncedancer

    The measles hasn’t killed anyone in the US in decades. Pharma uses statistics from 3rd world countries to do their fearmongering. The vaccine kills people in this country every year.

  • bouncedancer

    Even Dr. Jenner, the man who formulated the smallpox vaccine, is on record saying it couldn’t be the vaccine because it only reached 10% of the world’s population. You are wrong about vaccines having been scientifically demonstrated to work — au contraire: Official records show that communicable diseases dropped by 90 to 98% BEFORE vaccines got started, even diseases for which there were no vaccines. Because of big improvements in sanitation and nutrition and the cessation of child labor.

  • bouncedancer

    Wrong, your statistics are from 3rd world countries, which is what pharma uses for their fearmongering. In the US nobody has died of the measles for decades, whereas plenty have died from the vaccine.

  • Milo C

    “In 2016 and 2017 there were 49 deaths from measles in Europe, and 2018 saw another 72 deaths.” -University of Oxford
    “A study published in 2013 using electronic health record databases reviewed health information on over 13 million vaccinated persons and compared causes of death in the vaccinated study population to the general US population. The death rate 1 or 2 months following vaccination was lower than that in the general US population, and the causes of death were similar [28]. This study provides convincing evidence that vaccinations are not associated with an increased risk of death at the population level.” -National Institute of Health
    I’m not sure where you are pulling statistics from.

  • Leanna Reece

    Read #7 again.

  • Leanna Reece

    As the other comment mentioned, these dis-eases declined before mass vaccination. The scientific data is clear. However, polio is another matter entirely as the diagnostic criteria was changed correlating with the release of the vaccine.

    This is an exert from a book by a physician that offers a little insight into how the polio diagnosis changed: The full story about polio is utterly mind blowing.

    I took two seconds to find just one example as to the data I am referring to:

    The sheer amount of toxic ingredients in today’s vaccines is utterly appalling. So many people eat organic foods, for good reason, then inject themselves with known toxins.

  • Tor Iver Wilhelmsen

    So which was the case where we have measles outbreaks now: Did they stop washing their hands, did they start eating worse food, or did they start forcing their children to work?

    This myth is popular among anti-vaccine activists, but it is still utterly wrong.

  • bouncedancer

    (Norsk?) Or maybe they got the measles from someone who had received the measles vaccine, which causes shedding? You cannot prevent the measles with a live-virus vaccine.

  • Tor Iver Wilhelmsen

    What? More anti-vaxer revisionism and utter lies. People die from the disease, others suffer severe damage; even though not everyone does does not mean we accept the risks. It’s not “benign” in any sense of the word.

    Anti-vaxxers are dangerous, and you contribute to it with the terrible ideas you believe in.