Facebook Shutting Down Largest Anti-Vax Group on Its Platform

Facebook Shutting Down Largest Anti-Vax Group on Its Platform July 22, 2019
Larry Cook Facebook

A massive Facebook group dedicated to spreading fear and misinformation related to vaccines is on the verge of being shut down. Stop Mandatory Vaccination administrator Larry Cook announced to the 167,00 group members that the group has violated dozens of community guidelines, and Facebook has had enough.

According to a post uploaded by Larry Cook, his group “Stop Mandatory Vaccinations” is about to be shut down. Cook shared a screenshot from Facebook alerting him of the violations of the group. In Spring 2019, Facebook announced changes to its community guidelines related to groups and pages that spread vaccine misinformation.

Facebook said that groups that continually shared false or misleading information related to vaccines could be shut down. Additionally, Facebook tasked group administrators with monitoring the content shared in the group.

Apparently, Larry Cook’s time as the reigning king of anti-vaccine propaganda may be coming to an end. According to Cook, the group has violated three community standards and has shared 67 False news stories.

In the update to the group, Cook wrote,

“The group now has 3 strikes against it and there is no appeal process and no way to even review posts that violate Facebook’s terms. I have been going back and forth with a Facebook employee and she has stated I cannot appeal any violations, and additionally, the 3 violations now put the Group into an imminent threat of being “disabled” – shut down. Facebook uses a wily nilly way of auto flagging posts based on user submissions with zero manual review and no way for an appeal, so this means that in all likelihood, a couple more violations – which could be another baby photo for all we know – will shut down this group.”

Cook told group members he attempted to appeal the decision by Facebook. However, Facebook responded by letting him know there is no appeal process for the rule. Additionally, the issue started after Facebook says Cook approved a post that violated their Community Guidelines. With two other strikes against the group, Cook says the group shut down is imminent.

The move to shut down the largest anti-vaccine group on Facebook is a signal that their new protocol is working. The group continually shares posts that state vaccines contain poison and cause autism. WOACB entered the group to find posts that violated Facebook Community Guidelines, and the first two posts on the page met the criteria.

One post shared an article that stated vaccines contain poison. The second post was of a video of a girl with autism biting on her hands. In the video, the caption read, “I’d rather my child have autism than the measles.” The poster warned people that there are consequences to vaccinating their children.

Larry Cook urged members to join his backup MeWe group. Additionally, he encouraged people to opt-in to his email list to continue to help him spread his misinformation. The past six months have not been good for the Stop Mandatory Vaccinations founder. In the spring, YouTube demonetized his channel for sharing vaccine misinformation. Additionally, GoFundMe shut down his numerous campaigns to raise money to stop vaccinations.

With the group about to shut down, Cook reflected on his time adminning the group. He called the group one of his most significant accomplishments in his life.

“I think this group is one of my greatest achievements, actually, because parents from all over the world have been able to ask their questions about vaccines (and lots of other stuff too) and get answers they are seeking, and I did work really hard to make this group a success. Not that it hasn’t had its challenges, of course. I also want to thank my entire Moderator Team – they have been stellar! I could not have done it without them!”

Cook’s group has routinely shared misinformation that scares parents into not vaccinating their children. He consistently shares posts that falsely link infant deaths to vaccines. Despite his claims that he’s helping parents, Cook is one of the largest voices on Facebook, convincing parents not vaccinate their children. His advice puts children, adults, and the immunocompromised of contracting deadly diseases.

For now, the reigning king of vaccine misinformation on Facebook may need to find a new home. As soon as the group is gone, WOACB will make sure to update this post.

Read Cook’s full statement:

 

*Katie Joy is a columnist and hosts Without A Crystal Ball on Patheos Non-Religious Channel. She writes articles on parenting, disability advocacy, debunking pseudoscience, atheism, and crimes against women and children.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Raging Bee

    So he knew Facebook was moving to shut down his page for TOS and content violations, but in all his complaints and dire warnings, he never mentioned the possibility of changing his content to be more compliant with Facebook’s rules? That pretty clearly proves he has no scruples and doesn’t give a 69shit about removing falsehoods from his page…possibly because he knows his entire crusade is based on falsehoods.

  • cecilia

    the reason his posts are reported as false news is because he posts lies. it’s that simple

  • Daniel Pyron

    Lies and threats – long overdue for getting shut down.

  • sleekgazelle

    Facebook finally taking action on misinformation on their platform. It’s a shame they allowed groups like this in the first place, since the measles resurgence coincided almost directly with the rise of their platform.

  • Anna Sommers

    There is no group of antivaxxers. Just parents who have experienced something horrible and want more answers. Our freedom of speech, transparency and discussion is being taken away. Why are most of you choosing to look the other way?

  • APRIL

    That stupid, ha?
    My deepest condolences to you.

  • APRIL

    We are not going anywhere.
    There are many other groups bigger than his that you don’t know about.

  • Anthony Long

    LOL!

    A plague pusher has arrived!

  • Cindy Koch

    The only misinformation is being spread by big pharma! It shocks me that people don’t want safe vaccines and for the manufacturers to be held liable. So sad for the children in this world!

  • Raging Bee

    The continued existence of your ignorant comment is proof that NO ONE’S freedom of speech, transparency and discussion is being taken away. Go to bed.

  • Catherine Kane

    since this is not a one size fits all universe, some people will have reactions to vaccinations and other medications. there is no medication that has no possible side effects for everyone on the planet

    that being said, vaccines are safe overall.

  • Catherine Kane

    actually, from this message, you are going somewhere. and making dark hints about “larger groups” doesn’t mean that anti-vax info is accurate

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    Vaccines are safe, all medicines have side effects. Should we ban aspirin because some people react badly to it?

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    These groups seek to spread misinformation and outright lies about the efficacy and dangers of vaccines, they are not transparent in any way, they are often sponsored or run by people who benefit materially from people who believe their lies by selling supplements and bogus treatments.

    I am not attempting the minimize the hardships of people who care for autistic children, but these groups help no one, the lies they spread make people more vulnerable to preventable diseases while there continuing pushing of a false message (that vaccines cause autism) prevents actual research into the causes and possible mitigation / curing of the condition.

    We are not looking the other way, we are trying to promote the truth and defend people from lies, i get that you don’t see it that way.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    ok, lets get specific, please detail exactly what it is that you think that vaccines do that is bad, and what is your evidence for this belief.

  • zenlike

    Ehm, have a look into their commenting history. Full-on conspiracy nutter. You will not get anything resembling reality out of them.

  • zenlike

    Nah, you still have freedom of speech to spout whatever uninformed nonsense you want. You just cannot do it anymore on a specific private platform.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    Well quite, if a cop comes round and warns you to turn your music down, and you do nothing, you are in no place to complain when they turn up again and give you a ticket.

  • zenlike

    Unfounded claim, strawman, “think about the children!” Yup, someone lit the bat(shit insane) signal.

  • Cindy Koch

    Why don’t you people care that the manufacturers aren’t held liable?! That should be a red flag to anyone who can think for themselves! Have you taken the time to read an actual insert that comes w/them? I would never risk my child’s life injecting them w/pure poison!

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    I always like to give someone the opportunity to defend their position, but having been a denizen of the comments pages for while i know what to expect.

  • Cindy Koch

    Who mentioned anything about banning them? Convenient how you people ignore, the manufacturers should be held liable! That doesn’t bother you?!

  • Cindy Koch

    What’s the unfounded claim? That manufacturers aren’t held liable?! Do you people hear yourselves?! You don’t even make any sense!! Cheers.

  • zenlike

    I was specifically referencing your first sentence, but it is also applicable to everything else you spouted. But yeah, I know, rational people sound like “not making any sense” to loons.

  • Monica Hua

    We aren’t choosing to look anywhere than towards the evidence. Why do you choose to ignore the evidence that your child’s issues are not caused by vaccines? Why do you think you are the only parents of children with issues? How have you not realised that thousands of parents advocate for their children every day, without using them as a crutch to their own victimhood on social media?

  • Monica Hua

    What does a safe vaccine look like to you. Bare in mind your answer should not include the PRATTs of toxins, mercury, aluminium, formaldehyde or poison, because like I said, these are anti vax points refuted a thousand times.

  • They ARE being held liable, that’s why their medicines and vaccines are so effective.
    There’s no poison in vaccines.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    fair point, in my defense complete ban seems to be the standpoint of most anti vaxxers, but i apologies for making an assumption.

    Let me try again

    If a manufacturer follows all the appropriate rules and guidelines for producing a drug, and i have a serious reaction to that drug owing to a quirk of my personal biology, should the manufacture be held responsible?

  • Cindy Koch

    Lol! Last time I checked they can’t be sued!

  • Cindy Koch

    Sounds like you’ve never read the insert that comes in the vaccines. Get back to me when you have! You have been very brainwashed if you believe all those things you listed aren’t in them.

  • Cindy Koch

    Manufacturers are held liable, huh?! Thx for the good laugh!!

  • Monica Hua

    Another PRATT. I would be my house you haven’t read them.

  • Chibana

    But if he stuck to the truth he wouldn’t have an anti-vax group and wouldn’t be able to con morons out of their money.

  • Chibana

    Good news but can you please get someone to proof read your articles before you post?

  • Chibana

    Except that that is a flat out lie! They can be sued. In America, if you don’t like the results of the VICP, which requires less evidence, then you are more than welcome to file a civil case against the manufacturer and/or doctor. It is clearly stated by the VICP but, seeing as you all can’t read, you miss that part.https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-court-myths-nvicp-facts/

  • Chibana

    Why don’t you research this thought that the manufacturers can’t be held liable through real sources before sticking to a lie? I mean, lies are why Larry Crook is being shut down and you want to double down on something you read in a meme? https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-court-myths-nvicp-facts/

  • Chibana

    Do you not hear yourself? You’re spouting debunked rhetoric because someone told you to believe it rather than doing REAL research.

  • Cindy Koch

    Have no idea what PRATT means but when can I move into my new house?! I don’t even have kids and have read some.

  • Chibana
  • Monica Hua

    So you read the part where it explains that adverse events are not indicative of causation? Or the part where they mention the studies that demonstrate the safety and efficacy of the vaccine? I’d love to know what vaccine includes mercury? Or more than a trace of formaldehyde? Or where it lists the aluminium element, and not aluminium salts? Stop me when something sounds familiar.

  • Monica Hua

    Oh, and PRATT stands for point refuted a thousand times, as I wrote in a previous comment. Anti vax rhetoric is made up of PRATTs. You all say the same thing over and over and over again. It gets boring.

  • Cindy Koch

    You do realize they are the only companies that can’t be held liable for their products? That’s not right! What if it was your child that was killed by one? And I’m not an anti vaxxer whatsoever. I am sick of what corporations get away with!

  • Cindy Koch

    Are you saying manufacturers can be held liable?! If you are, you’re wrong! Doesn’t it bother you all the censorship happening in this country? It should. Especially when it comes to vaccines! Larry got shut down because he told the truth! Cheers.

  • Cindy Koch

    I’ve read that they may cause death! C ya Monica. I’m out! Take care…

  • Monica Hua

    Life is terminal….

  • Monica Hua
  • Kit Hadley-Day

    I see you failed to answer my question, but to answer yours.

    If a vaccine manufacturer failed to follow the required rules and regulations for the creation of a vaccine they would be held liable in exactly the same way that a car manufacturer would. Class actions and possible criminal prosecutions.

    Owing to the massive unpredictability of human biology there is always the possibility that an individual may react in an unexpected, or even expected but unusual, way to any drug, vaccines included. This is why there is a special court established to allow people who are unfortunate to be affected by these known issues to claim some compensation, this is to provide a fast track for those affected and to prevent drug manufacturers pulling out of the vaccine market completely due to the risk of being held accountable for something they could not control.

    We do not hold gun manufacturers accountable for the people who get shot with their guns, we do not hold car manufactures accountable for people killed in crashes, unless we can prove that they failed to follow the laws surrounding the manufacture and distribution of their products, why would you hold the drug industry to a higher standard?

    No one here, i hope, will tell you that drug companies are all sweetness and light, they have done really shady stuff and if caught should be punished severely for it, like execs going to jail for a long time. However corporate malfeasance does not change the simple fact that vaccination is the single greatest medical success in all human history, it has saved more life and prevented more hardship than almost any other invention, the only one that could challenge it is water purification.

  • zenlike

    More evidence-less blather. Not that I expected more from a Luddite.

  • zenlike

    And this is exactly why it is useless to debate loons like you. You make a claim for which zero evidence is provided. Someone else provides a ton of counter-evidence that you are wrong. And what do you do? Do your evaluate the evidence? To you provide counter-evidence? Nah, you just dismiss the evidence out of hand, and claim the other person is wrong.

  • zenlike

    Driving a car may cause death.

  • zenlike

    Yup. The same thing over and over again, with zero evidence, and dismissing any counter-evidence provided. There is no debate, just the side of rationality, and the side of loons who repeat the same nonsense over and over again, nonsense they were fed by con-men, and which they don’t even seem to understand.

  • Frankly, I’ll only believe it when it happens. That cesspool of liars has been reported to Facebook hundreds or maybe even thousands of times. It’s been the subject of news stories and accusations from just about every media group you can think of. Facebook hasn’t done squat about it until now. And now, finally, Larry “Boo hoo hoo, now I’ll have to get a real job” whines about receiving a notice of his group violating Facebook’s nearly non-existent “community standards.” Facebook’s community standards are as follows: if it generates revenue for Facebook, it’s allowed and Facebook turns a blind eye to it.

  • Chibana

    Yes they can. Stop lying. Read the credible source that I replied with. To help you, here is a quote.
    “Vaccine court myths – manufacturers are immune

    Other than the national security example mentioned above for certain vaccines like smallpox, this particular myth is untrue – vaccine manufacturers are not immune to lawsuits. Yes, for almost all of these lawsuits, the first step must be the NVICP, but that is not the whole story.

    For example, there are ways to sue manufacturers like showing evidence that the pharmaceutical company engaged in fraud, produced a product that had a manufacturing defect, or were negligent. Each of these is difficult to prove, but if there were genuine evidence of any of those issues, then the manufacturer can be sued.

    In addition, if a claim is denied by the Special Masters in the vaccine court, the case can be appealed, and if that fails the plaintiff can take it to civil court. However, if a case is denied in the NVICP, where it is demonstrably easier to prevail, it is unlikely that an attorney will want to pursue it in civil court.

    And down goes another of those tiresome vaccine court myths.”

  • Chibana

    Except they are held liable and can be sued. STOP LYING!

  • Chibana

    What do you think that says? In your own words, tell us what you took from that paper.

  • Chibana

    And you think they’re not because a meme told you so. That is what is laughable. We use credible sources. You use memes, mommy blogs, and scam artists.

  • Chibana

    So, besides being science illiterate you are also ignorant of the Constitution and what freedom of speech actually means? Private entities do not owe you freedom of speech. You are more than welcome to go make your own platform. No one is stopping you.

  • Anti-vaxxers are attention-seeking egotists who gladly exploit the suffering of their children, or other people’s children, to strangers on the Internet in order to get pity and sympathy. They are liars and I have no sympathy. Why not? Because after all the crying and weeping about “boo hoo hoo, my poor innocent snowflake was injured by teh vax!”, they have absolutely NO proof or evidence to back it up. No VAERS case ID, no hospital statement, coroner’s report, police report, doctor’s statement (an accredited doctor, not disgraced liar like Wakefield), *nothing.* No proof or evidence means they are lying.

  • Kindly provide some actual proof that “they or someone they love was injured or killed by a vaccine.” You’re the one making that statement, the burden of proof is on you. Prove it.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    the science does not support anti vaxxers, anecdotes are not data, while adverse incidents from vaccines can happen, the vast number of people that claim that their child was vaccine damaged are just wrong, they have been taken in by charlatans and quacks who have a vested interest in telling lies to vulnerable people.

    You are making some very broad claims in your post, would you care to support any of them, I would love to know what you think the link below tells us.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    Vaccine inserts are a legal document not medical ones, but if you would rather take medical advice from lawyers it’s up to you i guess.

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    so can any drug, are you advocating the end of all modern medicine?

  • Kit Hadley-Day

    how many people have to tell you that your current belief is wrong before you go and check it out, you have been provided with links, and frankly if you can post here you could just google it.

  • Boreal

    Pro-plaguer says wut?

  • Boreal

    Looks like the pro-plague page is already shutdown. Good riddance.

  • Boreal

    Right? Remember when you got polio?

  • Boreal

    Pro-Plague Post.

  • cecilia
  • cecilia
  • Well, I suppose it can accurately be said that 100% of people that are vaccinated will die….

  • cecilia

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3fbe60e0b3c8e227fcab5be7ecdd2159013054a3b9c2c453708a2d4aa1dad60f.jpg

    I don’t need any condolences. I don’t have polio or smallpox because my mother was smart enough to run to the doctor as soon as he told her the Salk vaccine was available. I’m lucky. I have a mother that loves me.

  • cowprotector

    better shutdown pubmed too:

    “A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21623535/

    “Documented causes of autism include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and encephalitis following vaccination.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21299355

    “Recently emerging evidence suggests that mercury, especially from childhood vaccines, appears to be a factor in the development of the autistic disorders, and that autistic children have higher than normal body-burdens of mercury.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15780490

    ”Conjugate vaccines fundamentally change the manner in which the immune systems of infants and young children function. This period of hypo-responsiveness to carbohydrate antigens coincides with the intense myelination process in infants and young children, and conjugate vaccines may have disrupted evolutionary forces that favoured early brain development over the need to protect infants and young children from capsular bacteria.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21993250

    “Exposure to mercury can cause immune, sensory, neurological, motor, and behavioural dysfunctions similar to traits defining or associated with autism, and the similarities extend to neuroanatomy, neurotransmitters, and biochemistry. Thimerosal, a preservative added to many vaccines, has become a major source of mercury in children who, within their first two years, may have received a quantity of mercury that exceeds safety guidelines.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/11339848/

    “A dose-response relationship between organic mercury exposure from thimerosal-containing vaccines and neurodevelopment disorders.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25198681/

    “A case series of children with apparent mercury toxic encephalopathies manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders.”

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17454560

    “The results overwhelmingly showed that
    unvaccinated children suffer far less
    from chronic childhood conditions than
    vaccinated children.”

    http://www.mednat.org/vaccini/dannivacc_study.pdf

    “These findings demonstrate a counter-intuitive relationship: nations that require more vaccine doses tend to have higher infant mortality rates.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/

    “…. the present study provides new epidemiological evidence supporting an association between increasing organic-Hg exposure from Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines and the subsequent risk of an ASD diagnosis.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3878266/

    “The mass of scientific evidence compiled by researchers clearly indicates that the incidence of autism occurs following vaccination and is most closely associated with the schedule of vaccines culminating in the MMR vaccine.”

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3364648/?fbclid=IwAR0SKjwd6BTSFxPdnzQFok4ki0ofTE8AZvPuzZj6I311RGfwMwhZa2wm6z4#!po=26.9444

    (If the study won’t load, enter the 8 digit number in pubmed search)

  • nmgirl

    On another blog, a mom of an autistic child chastised the anti-vaxxers for saying that the autistic children were now ‘broken’ and had to be ‘fixed’.

  • Anna Sommers

    Everyone is assuming that I’m blaming vaccines for my child’s health issues. Thats mostly what people on here do, they assume. My child has no health issues; completely healthy. All I have been doing this past year is looking for evidence. So far science that isn’t done by people who have conflicts of interest is pointing toward the result that vaccines do come with risk.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Every time one of these groups shuts down, there is less chance that someone will have to go through what my grandfather did.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It is more expensive to treat than it is to prevent. If this were really about “big pharma’s” profits, they would be opposed to vaccines.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Actually I have. It doesn’t look any different from the inserts of every other FDA-approved medication.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Parents who experienced something horrible. You mean like my great grandparents who came home from holding a funeral for one child and found another one dead due to a whooping cough epidemic?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Every form of medicine comes with risk. What matters is that the risk that comes with vaccines is several orders of magnitude lower than leaving the disease they prevent unchecked. When Edward Jenner first started vaccinating for smallpox using cowpox, he was working with a thirty percent chance of death vs a chance of less than one percent; a zero percent chance was not on the table.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    We’ll deal with them too.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Save your condolences for my many relatives who have died from diseases that we will never have to deal with thanks to vaccines.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You know what can also cause death? The diseases that vaccines prevent.

  • Kara Gotshall

    I am less concerned with the vaccine issue, and more concerned with the censorship issue at stake. Why would anyone applaud the fact that Facebook censored a group, with no room for recourse or appeal? It is only a matter of time before a pro-life group is censored for “misinformation,” or a pro-marriage group is censored for “bigotry,” or for a holistic healthcare group to be censored for “misleading the masses.”

    Facebook, obviously, can censor whoever it wants whenever it wants. It is a private organization. I am totally in favor of censoring images that may be violent or inappropriate. But I, for one, do not think it is a good idea to approve of censorship of information, even if it is incorrect. That is the nature of our modern age…consumers should be discriminating about what information they read and share, not put that power into Facebook’s hands. It is not the responsibility of the media to do our thinking for us, on the subject of vaccines or otherwise.

  • Amanbymany

    Your community post history makes me sad for my species.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Facebook is not the government. By the way, anti-choice groups do spread misinformation, and anti-gay groups are bigots. The lies of both groups directly cause harm to people.

  • Joann Loos

    While I understand FB is a private platform and is allowed to put in effect whatever stupid rules Zuckerberg wants, this is censorship. People are allowed to post pictures of themselves drinking and smoking, which are risks not only to themselves but to others. But when groups post articles and commentary contrary to the medical religion we are threatened with closure. Zuck’s been drinking the Kool Aid.

  • Kara Gotshall

    Oops…for some reason I was under the impression that Patheos was conservative Christian, that is why I used those examples! My point still stands, but I should have chosen different examples for the scope of this audience. Would you be comfortable with pro choice groups being taken down for misinformation accusations, with no opportunity to defend their position? Or pro-gay groups? Once one group is censored, it opens the door for any minority position to be censored.
    I agree, Facebook is not government. But as a consumer, I don’t support it’s choices to censor, whether I agree with the position or not.

  • Yawn. Gish gallop, dumping a whole bunch of cut and paste links that are *not about the topic of this article,* namely Larry Crook’s Facebook group being shut down. Maybe. Hopefully.

  • Mark Ethan

    Here are six studies that link acute myelitis (aka paralysis) to vaccines.

    1. “In fact, a number of inflammatory disorders of the central nervous system [myelitis] have been associated with the administration of various vaccines.” — http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27023738

    2. “We reviewed the magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) database of the Dent Neurologic Institute to study the abnormal findings in myelitis. We identified 9 patients, with acute transverse myelitis. Although readily distinguishable from lesions due to MS, the various etiologies for ATM, including post-infectious (n = 2), post-vaccination (n = 3), and idiopathic (n = 4) were indistinguishable on MRI.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10210810

    3. “It should be recognized that certain vaccines might trigger serious neurological immune phenomena such as Guillain-Barre syndrome, seizures, cranial neuropathy, and acute disseminated encephaloMYELITIS (ADEM). Here we report on an elderly woman with ADEM following seasonal influenza [flu] vaccination.” — http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3889594/

    4. “A wide variety of inflammatory diseases temporally associated with the administration of various vaccines, has been reported in the literature. The most commonly reported vaccinations that were associated with CNS demyelinating diseases included influenza (21 cases), human papilloma virus (HPV) (9 cases), hepatitis A or B (8 cases), rabies (5 cases), measles (5 cases), rubella (5 cases), yellow fever (3 cases), anthrax (2 cases), meningococcus (2 cases) and tetanus (2 cases). Usually the symptoms of the CNS demyelinating syndrome appear a few days following the immunization (average: 14.2 days).
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24514081

    5. “We describe two adult cases of neurologic complications occurring after influenza vaccination. The first case was a 62-year-old man who experienced convulsions 5 days after vaccination, and the second case was a 70-year-old man who exhibited paraplegia 7 days after vaccination. Diagnoses of acute disseminated encephalomyelitis and transverse MYELITIS with acute motor axonal neuropathy were made.”
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12636241

    6. “Acquired Demyelinating disorders [MYELITIS] of the central nervous system in children span a wide spectrum. The etiology of acquired demyelinating conditions is multi-factorial namely – genetic, post-infectious, post-immunization…Vaccines, specifically influenza, rabies, and smallpox vaccines have also been reported.” — http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24514081/

  • Eva Live

    So sad that Facebook gets to dictate what speech we can have and what we can’t. This feels like our first amendment rights to free speech are now void, at least as far as saying what we want on the largest social media outlet in the world.

    You can say that he’s lying and you’re glad they’re getting shut down, but what happens when Facebook or another big social media platform shuts down your group or account?

    There’s a beautiful exvangelical Jamie Lee Finch who wrote a book called You Are Your Own. Someone, probably a Christian, complained about her posts (probably because she’s teaching about healthy sexuality), and Instagram took down her account.

    I personally do not want Facebook, Instagram, Google, or any other private company to determine what I or anyone else can or cannot say. Of course if something is outright hate speech that’s not constitutionally protected, that’s different.

  • Friend

    Do you feel sorry for the preacher who was stopped from selling industrial bleach to cure all ills, including childhood ailments? Personally, I’m fine with a private corporation occasionally trying to protect the public.

  • Friend

    Facebook is not the government. Check out the freedom of speech language in the U.S. Constitution.

  • Friend

    Somehow I don’t think Mark Zuckerberg personally polices every Facebook page.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Pro-choice and pro-gay groups don’t spread misinformation as a matter of course. Anti-choice and anti-gay groups do.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Facebook is a private company. They are under no obligation to provide a platform for anyone.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences, and as a private entity Facebook can apply any consequence they wish within their platform.

  • I repeat: gish gallop. This is an article about Larry the Liar and his terrorist group beingh shut down by Facebook…I hope. You can post a hundred more of those worthless links, it’s still not worth bothering with. That’s because it’s not the subject of this article.

  • Kindly list a single time when someone posted “I’m not anti-vax, I just want safer vaccines,” and then actually posted of an example of a vaccine he or she thought was “safe.” Never happens. 😛

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I’ll take my chances with vaccines instead of polio. Fortunately for my mother, Grandpa thought the same.

  • Monica Hua

    Please explain what not having a conflict of interest means to you. Does it include not being funded by groups who have an anti vax agenda?

    Also, where is this robust, peer reviewed, non conflict of interest research that demonstrates vaccines cause all these issues that anti vaxxers say they they do.

  • Raging Bee

    Awww, poor baby, the meanies at Facebook didn’t let you get away with your damaging, irresponsible lies anymore. Go cry on Putin’s shoulder and stop pestering us.

  • Raging Bee

    I am less concerned with the vaccine issue, and more concerned with the censorship issue at stake.

    That’s because you never cared about the LIVES that were impacted by the lies and hysterical nonsense you chose to support.

  • Raging Bee

    What, exactly, so you mean by “medically confirmed?” Citation required.

  • Cozmo the Magician

    OHHHH look, trolly McTrollFace just admitted to being another liar for Jesus. Big surprise eh?

    “I was under the impression that Patheos was conservative Christian”

  • Cozmo the Magician

    “I personally do not want Facebook, Instagram, Google, or any other
    private company to determine what I or anyone else can or cannot say” Fine! Then DON’T &#8203FUCKING USE them.

  • Cozmo the Magician

    No, but these fundienuts like to project. They know that if THEY controlled FB, every single page would be overlooked by an appointed Christian Adult.

  • Raging Bee

    She can go publish her stuff on LiveJournal now — they’re owned by Russians, under Russian law, so she’ll find good company with the Russian agents who’ve been supporting the pro-plague movement.

  • Cozmo the Magician

    Sigh… After seeing all the anti-vax trolls pop up I really wish that Wakefield had never been vaccinated same with the beeotch who I will not bother to name.

  • Martin Penwald

    Discussions about vaccines are always health related. So plagues enthousiasts should be prosecuted for illegal practice of medicine, 1st amendment doesn’t apply there.

  • Martin Penwald

    Should we tell her that 100% of unvaccinated people will die too?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And the anti-gay movement, among other things.

  • This feels like our first amendment rights to free speech are now void, at least as far as saying what we want on the largest social media outlet in the world.

    Your First Amendment rights are that the government can’t censor you. A private organization such as Facebook, absolutely can, and it is within their rights because people are using that platform.

    Generally I am opposed to censorship, but this guy has gotten people killed, spread diseases, and caused very real, tangible harm.

  • These words, I don’t think they mean what you think they mean.

    And there is a huge difference between someone choosing to drink or smoke themselves, and doing things which put not only their children, but the lives of other children at risk because they are too ignorant to read the science.

  • Kara Gotshall

    It actually made me laugh. Apparently only my conservative Christian friends every share Patheos articles! This is the first one I’ve ever seen from an atheist. I literally had to check out the home page of Patheos to figure out where the heck I was after RainbowPhoenix’s comment!

  • Kara Gotshall

    I am not supporting “lies and hysterical nonsense,” I am merely cautioning against the idea of censorship. Today, you are happy that anti-vaxxers are being censored. Tomorrow, will you be happy when information at the border is censored because it is flagged as “misinformation” with no appeal process? I may or may not agree with this particular group. But I think it is a bad move for Facebook to censor them, just because people disagree. That suggests that Facebook can be bought out by the highest bidder, financially or politically.

  • Kara Gotshall

    Even if that is your impression, it doesn’t address the problems of censorship. Facebook is a private organization, I am a consumer…and I am sharing my opinion that this kind of censorship will limit Facebook as a social media platform where all views are permitted.

  • Raging Bee

    Facebook is not censoring anyone “just because people disagree;” they’re censoring people who are deliberately and maliciously spreading disinformation that is known to result in increased sickness and death for innocent people. Either you’re totally ignorant of this, or you’re knowingly supporting their lies. Either way, you have no integrity and no credibility; so take your fake outrage about “censorship” and shove it back where it came from.

  • Rann

    I am less concerned with the vaccine issue, and more concerned with the censorship issue at stake.

    Uncomposted male cow manure!!!! You are tone trolling….and you know it. BTW stop with the fake scare quotes – in each case you cited, those groups do spread misinformation, bigotry and try to mislead people. Just because you can’t admit that’s what they do doesn’t negate the facts.

    It is not the responsibility of the media to do our thinking for us

    Well, jeesh! ….. Someone has to do it if you insist on not thinking!

  • You know what the leading cause of death is?

    LIFE.

  • And transmitted via “passionate hugging”.

  • Er, no, you’ve confused vaccine manufacturers with gun manufacturers. While I do agree that, when a product is proven dangerous, it should be pulled (firearms), I don’t agree that there is sufficient evidence to support your paranoia about vaccines.

  • Jennifer

    Censorship will be the ruin of
    Facebook. I don’t think Americans as a whole will tolerate it. There is more than one side to every issue. Why does one side want credible, unbiased research and science on an issue silenced. Why is one side against the right to informed consent and the fundamental right to be able to control what goes into ones own body especially a product made by a manufacture that has no legal liability. We are expected to trust the same pharmaceutical companies responsible for thalidomide, vioxx, and the opioid crisis to make a fault free product when it comes to vaccines. If after you’ve done your research you feel confident that the safety and efficacy studies have been done and the long list of ingredients in vaccines including aluminum, formaldehyde, polysorbate 80, glyphosate via gelatin, human, and animal DNA fragments, retrovirus and thmerisol etc etc are harmless then you should be free to choose to vaccinate but if someone else decides that based on science and their genetic susceptibility that vaccines are not for them they should be able to say no. If we cannot exercise our fundamental right of control over our own bodies them we are no longer free!

  • Brad Solomon

    Yes they can be sued, but why would anyone spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer instead of just filing a claim with VAERS? And VAERS had already paid out over 4 Billion in vaccine damage!

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s not my impression, it is what those groups do.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, there are not two sides to every issue. Sometimes only one side has science and evidence on its side, while the supposed “other side” is built entirely on bald-faced lies.

  • username56

    Where is Katie Joy’s proof that infant deaths are falsely-linked to vaccines? There’s not a shred of science in this story. We have the highest infant mortality of all developed countries, and we have the most aggressive vaccine program in the world. Time and again, healthy babies die within hours of a round of vaccines, but Katie Joy says there’s no link! Reminds me of the 30 years that “journalists” like Katie dutifully reported no link between smoking and lung cancer before the link was finally admitted to the American people. Too bad about all the people who died because they listened to tobacco science.

  • Jessica W

    Most of the information shared in these groups is true. Theres likely a few posts here and there that get through that are inaccurate, but this happens on all our news stations on t.v. too. Vaccines come with risks, like any other drug. Maybe big pharma should come clean, and
    the government should stop trying to force people into medical decisions they should be making for themselves, and their children. Everyone needs to go on merck website and read the inserts that come in the boxes. Its not misinformation… and censorship is the real problem here. http://Www.merck.com

  • S bean

    a REAL vaccine injury is a ONE in a million event.

    stubbing your toe doesn’t count.

  • Friend

    Correlation is not causation.

    Package inserts list all sorts of things that happen to patients during a drug study, whether or not they are side effects or common reactions. If a patient happens to go bald while taking sleeping pills during a study, that can show up on the insert. This type of info confuses patients, but it is there for full disclosure and to guide future research. It’s important to talk with doctors about common side effects and the risks to you as an individual patient.

    The US does have a high infant mortality rate. This has a lot to do with poverty and lack of access to prenatal care and pediatric care, because many pregnant women and babies do not have medical insurance.

    Correlation is not causation.

  • Raging Bee

    Censorship of damaging lies is perfectly okay, and has nothing to do with censorship of differing views. Your robotic repetition of stale old talking points is noted, and dismissed.

  • Friend

    I’m fine with something being “the ruin of Facebook.” There are myriad other ways to keep up with friends, and I don’t care for having algorithms plop “tailored” information onto my screen.

  • Zeke Ezekiel
  • Michael DiSalvo

    Lies and threats? So you work for medical mafia?

  • Michael DiSalvo

    Yeah, and glyphosphate is perfectly safe and vaccination courts don’t exist

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Oh, you’re being stopped, slowly but steadily.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Repeat after me: “CORRELATION DOES *NOT* IMPLY CAUSATION”

    Tattoo it on your hand…and internalize it mentally.

  • Zeke Ezekiel
  • Friend

    ..

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Because the group is spreading lies that create a public danger.

    You sound like you’d advocate for somebody yelling “FIRE!” in a crowded moviehouse with no care for those harmed in the ensuing panic.

  • Friend

    I love it when people post a meme and claim that something unspecified has been deleted somewhere online.

    And when the meme compares memes and comments with books, and the deletion of memes and comments with book burn1ngs.

    And when the objection from the supposed censor has nothing to do with book burn1ngs or memes, but makes reference to community guidelines on regulated goods.

    Just a random thought here, nothing to do with anything that might appear below.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Censoring harmful liars who pretend to be telling the truth is a social *benefit*, which Facebook should be lauded for.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    You’re pathetically misinformed.

    Big Pharma may not be perfect, but you’re an idio t if you think that vaccines are a bit profit center…*treating* the diseases that vaccines prevent is MUCH more lucrative.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Quit trying to shift the burden of proof.

    If YOUR KIND is claiming that vaccines CAUSE infant death, the burden of proof is on you.

    Katie is just saying YOUR KIND have yet to present ANY reputable evidence.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Doubtful to the point of irrelevance.

    EVERY study that’s been done where parents originally claimed that vaccines caused autism has, upon further questioning, to be mistaken correlation, and the child in question had been displaying autism traits before getting the vaccinations.

    In fact, since you’re so vehement, SHOW ME a case where a vaccine WAS THE PRIMARY AND IRREFUTABLE CAUSE OF DEATH or get off your high horse and re-engage your critical thinking faculties.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    So what?

    If you want to change it, buy enough FB stock.

    It’s a private company, so stop whining.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower
  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I call BS.

    Publish the records if you want us to believe that nonsense.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Maybe on opioids…NOT on vaccines.

  • Lisa McLaughlin

    Are you people clueless or what? 6 corporations own 95% of ALL the media, and their major advertiser/funder big pHARMa so of course they will censor anything negative about their cash cow–liability free vaccines. Follow the money. Even the supreme court ruled that vaccines are unavoidably unsafe.

  • stop the scammers

    You can do a Google search for child dies after vaccine and watch the tons of videos and articles that pop up. There’s your proof

  • stop the scammers

    To say that some of these groups don’t spread misinformation is incorrect and is actually a matter of opinion and not fact. Just because somebody May support gay rights doesn’t mean everything they put about gays is necessarily fact. It may be a fact for that specific person but it doesn’t apply across the board and this goes the same for everything whether it’s abortion or vaccines. We can find scientific literature to back up both sides of every argument and so it is up to people to discern through that information and determine what they believe to be true what they believe not to be true. I’m pro-life and I believe that a fetus is a baby and someone who is pro-choice is going to say that a fetus is not a baby, so who’s right because there’s legal, scientific, and all other types of opinions and arguments that fall on both sides of this. All Kara is saying is that to allow this type of censorship completely violate somebody’s right to free speech and this just opens the door for them to do this to any group they don’t agree with

  • doovinator

    Correlation doesn’t PROVE causation. It is, however, some of the best EVIDENCE of causation.

  • cowprotector

    yea, i got punched in the eye and it swelled up really bad, i went to the hospital and the doctors and nurses kept chanting “correlation is not causation”

  • cecilia

    are you talking about glyphosate?
    I wouldn’t have that near bees.
    What does that have to do with vaccines?
    nothing, right

    maybe you should should really learn about the purpose of “vaccination courts” – try here:
    http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/national-vaccine-injury-compensation-program-facts/

    and:
    “The percentage of compensations to actual vaccines administered is 0.003%. Three one-THOUSANDTHS of one percent of cases of vaccination have resulted in compensation for injury”

    vaccines have a safety rating of 99.997%

  • Susan MacKenzie

    The United States is turning into Nazi Germany and just like the Germans, US Americans have been so brainwashed that they approve the demise of their freedom of speech.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    VAERS hasn’t paid out a cent.

    It’s a SELF-reported adverse events database, with accounts of a person turning into a Hulk after too great a dose of gamma radiation.

    Try again.

    I’d give you the real court you’re looking for, but I don’t enable plague-spreaders.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower
  • Zeke Ezekiel

    So we should doubt the inserts but we should believe you? Ludicrous.

  • Zeke Ezekiel

    It says youre trying to deceive us.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I didn’t say that none of them spread misinformation. Pro-gay and pro-choice groups that spread misinformation are the outliers, while anti-gay and anti-choice groups that spread misinformation are the norm.

  • Friend

    Ask your doctor. Here, I’ll quote myself for you, and you are free to figure out whether I already wrote that, above:

    It’s important to talk with doctors about common side effects and the risks to you as an individual patient.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Freedom of speech means the government can’t punish you for what you say. Facebook is a private platform.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    If it were about profits, “big pharma” would oppose vaccines. Treatment is far more expensive than prevention.

  • Friend

    Literally! Like, we’ve all moved back in time and thousands of miles! Thanks for revealing the true truth!

  • RainbowPhoenix

    “Big pharma” has nothing to come clean about in this situation. Treatment is far more expensive than prevention.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Those are anecdotes, often from someone desperate to blame for their tragedy. We’re expecting actual evidence that can be replicated.

  • Juliet Richardson

    don’t use those platforms again. easy peasy.

    and next time read the terms and conditions so you know what they CAN do, due to them being a PRIVATE ENTITY.

  • Juliet Richardson

    so you have proof that vaccines don’t work through double blind, peer reviewed and published studies over decades?

    great! start linking them! can’t wait!

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I can do a google search for many things and get videos…heck, I can find clips of Marvel movies.

    Does that mean that Natalie Portman’s ‘real’ name is Jane Foster, then?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Nope.

    You’re legally wrong.

    Until it no longer depends on ONE person’s body (the host’s body), it’s not baby, at most it’s a fetus. Past a certain point, ending the pregnancy is a delivery rather than an abortion because the fetus can survive with technological support.

    Anything before it can survive outside the uterus is parasite removal, and YOUR KIND have no say.

  • Juliet Richardson

    i’ll take the few 1000 vaxx related deaths to the literally MILLIONS SAVED.

    if vaccines were THAT deadly/injury causing don’t you think they’d be yanked from the shelves like every other bad drug out there?

    tell you what, sparky, when VERIFIED, 100%, no other possible cause vaccine deaths reach the numbers of those saved by vaccines, then we’ll talk.

  • Juliet Richardson

    “….VAERS had already paid out over 4 Billion in vaccine damage!”

    links?

  • Juliet Richardson

    ok….. you’ve been refuted nicely on this and you KEEP MAKING THE SAME DAMN CLAIM.

    so start linking credible sources and prove your BS.

    [any bets what happens NOW, folks?]

  • bouncedancer

    Ha ha ha — good one. You’re posting a link to the website of Dr. Paul Offit, aka Dr. Profit. He not only gets to make vaccines that harm babies, he gets to set vaccine policy! Isn’t that convenient? How can this kind of collusion even be legal?
    In case you didn’t know, yes, glyphosate has been found in vaccines. And, yes, they ARE full of neurotoxins, like aluminum and formaldehyde among many others. Per the CDC.

  • Juliet Richardson

    wow!

    you mean there are LARGER groups of science illiterate scaremongers that provide some good laughs for those that are not?

    cool!

  • stop the scammers

    Your comment shows how idiotic you are. Based on your statements, then who decides when a fetus becomes a person. Some have the legal argument that anything under 30 weeks can’t survive while it has been known that fetus’ younger than 24 weeks have survived. So who determines when it’s an abortion and when it’s a delivery and what’s a human and what isn’t. certainly not people like you. Obviously not the law because it’s different everywhere you go. And according to new laws, it’s considered a baby as soon as it has a heartbeat. So again, for every side of every argument there is scientific legal precedents and arguments. There are when it comes to abortion and there are when it comes to vaccines. People like you make comments like my body my choice and believe that abortion is okay but yet it’s not my body my choice when it comes to vaccines?? And please don’t give me the BS argument that not vaccinating hurts other people because it doesn’t. Even the CDC says vaccines don’t prevent disease and there were many people who were vaccinated who got the measles. Unvaccinated people can’t spread something that they don’t have.

  • Juliet Richardson

    so by all means, tell us unwashed masses the intricate chemistry involved here as to WHY -those specific- chemicals are in vaccines?

    verifiable chem or biochem degree?

    dazzle us.

  • bouncedancer

    The manufacturer of the smallpox vaccine, Dr. Jenner, said it couldn’t be the vaccine, since it only reached 10% of the world’s population.
    For the last 20 years that the live polio vaccine was used in the industrialized world, it was the only cause of polio. So they switched us to the dead polio vaccine, in a series of 3 shots (multiple shots is a sign of a bad vaccine), and shipped off the live polio vaccine to … (drumroll) 3rd world countries ….

  • bouncedancer

    I am sorry to hear that you are for censorship driven by Pharma.
    Read up on the history of the measles. It’s cyclical. It’s not many years ago that we had at least that many who got it, and there was no big campaign with all lies.
    Nobody died or even was hospitalized (oh believe me, we would have heard about it). The wild virus is the only thing that provides lifetime immunity, and for most children in the modern world it is not a difficult disease, especially with the help of vitamin A, which is proven to be important for the measles. Notice how we never saw or read an interview with families who had people with the measles.

    The vaccine is a live-virus vaccine, which causes shedding. You cannot eradicate a disease with a live-virus vaccine. Many of the people who get the measles have been vaccinated, some very recently; it’s one of the side effects listed on the package insert ….
    It even can eradicate some cancers. The highly esteemed journal Atherosclerosis found that men had 29% fewer heart attacks & 17% fewer strokes if they had a history of childhood measles and mumps.

  • bouncedancer

    There is a statistical rhythm to SIDS deaths, and it happens to coincide with the vaccine schedule. The vaccine industry refuses to look into it.

  • Lilith Marie Haas

    Why isn’t anyone on this thread worried about the right to free speech on the internet? If FB can say one person or group is not allowed to speak, how can we ever really know if we are getting the whole picture on any issue? This is about more than just who gets to decide what current medical advice is true or false, social media platforms currently have protection from liability because they are supposed to be forums for public discussion. Censorship is the suppression of new ideas by those who profit from the status quo. Anyone who thinks that Larry or anyone else like him should be silenced is un- American and against the First Amendment. I think he should be allowed to sue them. https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/senator-hawley-introduces-legislation-amend-section-230-immunity-big-tech-companies

  • Zeke Ezekiel

    DAMNED STRAIGHT!!! The fanatics who attack vaccine doubts here are most likely being paid to troll.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Facebook is a private entity. The first amendment doesn’t apply. Please learn what the constitution actually says before you preach about it.

  • Friend

    Paid? No, I do this out of love. Love of medical science. I’ve also been posting here for awhile, instead of just suddenly showing up and posting N@zi memes, writing in full caps and piling on the exclamation points.

    “Attack vaccine doubts” is a nice bit of deliberate distortion. Most of the regulars on this blog are responsible, level-headed folks who are grateful for advances in medicine.

  • Friend

    Yes, there’s such a grave shortage of viewpoints online. You, for example, didn’t get to post your comment above. I will demonstrate the problem by not copying your words:

    Why isn’t anyone on this thread worried about the right to free speech on the internet? If FB can say one person or group is not allowed to speak, how can we ever really know if we are getting the whole picture on any issue? This is about more than just who gets to decide what current medical advice is true or false, social media platforms currently have protection from liability because they are supposed to be forums for public discussion. Censorship is the suppression of new ideas by those who profit from the status quo. Anyone who thinks that Larry or anyone else like him should be silenced is un- American and against the First Amendment. I think he should be allowed to sue them. https://www.greenmedinfo.co

  • Delta

    Ah yes, most of the information is true… such as “people are only transgender because vaccines are made by demons and contain aborted babies deliberately intended to induce transness.”

    Oh! Or how about “epilepsy only exists because of vaccines”?

    Or… “polio still exists, they just call it something different because it’s actually a vaccine injury”?

    Or… “measles deaths are lies made up by the media to push the New World Order’s agenda”?

    Citation desperately needed, Jessica W.

  • Friend

    By jingo, she’s right! Everyone vaccinated in the 1700s and 1800s DIED AFTERWARD! The trend is unrelenting! Did you know that most people born in 1900 and vaccinated are dead?????????

  • Delta

    Oh, looks like Larry’s fan club has descended…

  • Friend

    Ascended, based on their point of origin.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Say it with me, “correlation does not equal causation.”

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My paternal grandfather lost two younger brothers to a whooping cough epidemic.

    My maternal grandfather’s older brother was left with a permanent limp due to polio.

    My paternal grandmother lost a sister to measles complications.

    My maternal grandmother saw her house get quarantined at least once.

    My mother was directly exposed to polio. Fortunately Grandpa used what was available to protect his children from what his brother went through.

    My brother is severely immunocompromised due to a bout of viral meningitis. If he were to get sick because he came into contact with an unvaccinated child, his life could be in danger.

    My opposition to vaccine myths is carried out entirely for free.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Or… “measles deaths are lies made up by the media to push the New World Order’s agenda”?

    My grandmother lost a sister to measles complications when they were in their twenties. Accusing her of being a liar is fighting words.

  • Bonnie Rourke

    I am against censorship, but it is too late in this case. The people who want the truth have already found it.

  • Bonnie Rourke

    There is glyphosate in vaccines.

  • The woman who wrote this article is either a Stooge of Vaccine makers or an ignorant woman who knows NOTHING about real Health. Either way she is damaging the health of the Nation and should be banned from this site for her bad reporting and misinformation.

  • bouncedancer

    Huh?! How would I know their reasoning — they don’t show the science behind it, and Congress wasn’t able to compel mandated safety reports from them in 32 years. Some of the ingredients are preservatives; some, like polysorbate 80, are there to help transport the ingredients across the blood-brain barrier so they can go straight to the brain and create an inflammatory effect ….
    Are you trying to say you have to have a degree to speak out about injecting loads of toxins into babies and children? Toxins that are leaving a trail of destroyed lives, to the tune of over $4 billion paid out in damages, paid by us. The school budget in California just jumped by 20%, shortly after mandating vaccines. How are we going to pay for all this damage, and why is the mainstream media dead silent about this catastrophe?

  • bouncedancer

    That’s a meaningless phrase put out by pharma. You can just as easily turn it on its head and say, “Causation always implies correlation.”

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And there’s the “big pharma” boogeyman rearing its ugly head. Treatment is far more expensive than prevention. If this were really about profits for “big pharma”, then they would be opposing vaccines to bilk more money out of everyone.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’re either a stooge of anti-vaxxer predators or you’re an ignorant person who knows NOTHING about real health. Either way you are damaging the health of the nation and should be banned from this sight for your bad reporting and misinformation.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Facebook is a private entity. The first amendment does not apply.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only liar here is you and your fellow anti-vax predators.

    Facebook is a private entity. The first amendment is not in play.

    Treatment is far more expensive than prevention. If your ridiculous claims were true, then “big pharma” would be opposing vaccines in order to bilk more money out of everyone.

    Yes, measles can be deadly. My grandmother lost her oldest sister to measles complications.

    All contagious diseases “shed”. That’s what shedding means. The vaccine is several orders of magnitude less virulent than the disease itself. Do you know what even half the words you’re using actually mean?

    When I googled “Atheroclerosis”, all I found was a condition relating to erectile disfunction. That’s doesn’t sound like a highly acclaimed journal to me.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Ooh, look, scary words. I bet you don’t know what any of them mean.

    And if you want to talk about destroyed lives, I’ll gladly tell you what my great grandparents went through when they lost two children back-to-back to a whooping cough epidemic.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Those developing countries are the only places left in the world that still have wild poliovirus. We have the polio vaccine to thank for that, and I personally thank my grandfather’s good sense in getting that vaccine for his children. I likely would not be here otherwise.

    By the way, Edward Jenner didn’t manufacture the original smallpox vaccine. He took advantage of the close genetic relationship between smallpox and cowpox to reduce a thirty percent chance of death to less than one percent. The word “vaccine” is derived from vaccinia variola, which literally means “smallpox of the cow”.

  • bouncedancer

    Duh about pharma — they are the new mafia. You’re right, treatment is far more expensive. And since the vaccinated often get sick, sometimes catastrophically, from the vaccines, there’s a lot to treat. Even without that, it is a HUGE money maker. Don’t be naïve.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Provide evidence for your claims; facts that can be replicated by independent observers. You anti-vax predators have completely failed that basic scientific metric. You only have anecdotes that are loosely connected at best.

    What I know is that my paternal grandfather lost two brothers to a whooping cough epidemic, my paternal grandmother lost a sister to measles complications, and I likely wouldn’t be here if my maternal grandfather didn’t have the sense to get his children the polio vaccine at the first opportunity. Most importantly, my brother is severely immunocompromised due to a bout of viral meningitis. The return of diseases thought eradicated due to the damage you anti-vax predators reducing herd immunity rates is a direct threat to my brother’s life.

  • Brad Solomon
  • Brad Solomon

    It’s actually $4,158,040,250.41 as of now.

  • Brad Solomon

    Well it was Pharma that lobbied to create it so why would they complain? Probably because its easier to just pay people off then to have it revealed in open court the destruction their products cause.

    I don’t need your secret court because I never take vaccines and never will and am perfectly healthy. In fact 80% of adults are not caught up on vaccines! Where’s the plague? It’s all fear mongering. The diseases of the past were eliminated by plumbing not by poison in a needle.

  • FRLBJ

    You need to provide proof that vaccines actually give lifetime immunity and do not cause harm! Big Pharma has failed to do so. If you get measles, mumps and rubella you have lifetime immunity, unlike with vaccines.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Except for all the proof that you anti-vax predators keep ignoring so you can continue to live in your delusion about being smarter than you actually are. I stand by my statement that I likely would not be here if not for the polio vaccine.

  • anne marie hovgaard

    No, that’s simply not true. There’s been lots of research done, and there is no connection – not even a correlation. SIDS just happens around the same time vaccines are given, regardless of whether the baby is vaccinated.

  • anne marie hovgaard

    More like post hoc ergo propter hoc is not true, there’s no correlation unless you ignore the “infant” bit and pretend that everyone might die of SIDS.

  • anne marie hovgaard

    Nope, vaccinated people are a lot less likely to get whatever they’re vaccinated against, if they do get it (vaccines vary wrt. how strong the protection is) they’re less ill. There are risks, but serious side effects are extremely rare. Most registered side effects are from being stabbed by a needle (fainting/sore spot on your arm). Plus nocebo and pure coincidence (if you read package inserts, you’d think most drugs cause headache).

  • anne marie hovgaard

    Measles destroys your immunity to diseases: https://www.asm.org/Articles/2019/May/Measles-and-Immune-Amnesia

  • RainbowPhoenix

    So you admit that there’s no evidence that vaccination is connected to SIDS.

  • anne marie hovgaard

    ??? “Admit”??? I also admit that water is wet and chocolate is tasty.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Sorry. Poe’s Law.

  • Matt Zukowski

    We understand the mechanism of physical impacts and it’s understood to be highly likely being hit in the eye will result in swelling. Then again, it’s also possible someone had pink eye and plonked you in the eye with their pink eye contaminated hand OR you got pink eye prior and just noticed.

    It’s rather why a physical exam is the standard of practice.

  • Matt Zukowski

    “Nobody died or even was hospitalized (oh believe me, we would have heard about it)”

    But we have heard about it. We heard about the age of discovery and the first thing we discovered was we imported disease to the Americas and something like measles would spread from sea to sea. Hawaii is another case in point. This decimated the population.

  • Sophotroph

    Why does your post contain 100% accusations and 0% information to back them up?

    When somebody comes to your antivaxx forum and says “Vaccines are safe, science proves it, go home,” everybody just gives up and leaves?

  • Sophotroph

    Every accusation an admission.

    Even when we point it out, you just can’t help yourself.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    “CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION”

    Learn it.
    Know it.
    Love it.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Nope.

    It’s an axiom of statistics.

    Just because YOUR KIND are too faw king stupid to accept that reality does not bend to your delusions does NOT make statistics or statistical verities false.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    And since the vaccinated often get sick

    *That*, knothead, IS BECAUSE THEY SURVIVE…DEAD PEOPLE DON’T GET SICK, THEY DECOMPOSE

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    If you ignore evidence, you can claim anything.

    First, you’re strawmanning, because vaccines give LONG LASTING immunity, not lifetime immunity, and I don’t know if anything else was ever claimed.

    By YOUR KIND’s standards, you shouldn’t bother to EAT because you’ll just have to eat again, and you might get food poisoning on rare occasions.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Upvoted for truth, not the fact itself.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Uh, if you read her posts, anne marie hovgaard is making pro-vax points.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    In fact, there was one improperly researched vaccine in the Phillippines that caused problems, and guess what? IT WAS PULLED.

    The company that produced it and didn’t test it properly is in hot water, too.

  • Francois Arseneau

    this page is called Patheos? sounds more like Patheticos with everyone cheering for free speech to disappear and have their freedoms taken away to be protected of a few rashes… enjoy the koolaid while research continues to expose vaccines as a complete scam. This has happened before, but this industry is liability free, think about that for a second. A product, mandated by laws with documented harm, paid in the US over 4 billion in damages from a tax collected on vaccines, deemed unsafe by the courts.. how is this not a recipe for disaster? seriously, stop calling people names and behaving like little kids, this is the time to rise up and fight this tyranny. YOu love vaccines, good for you, but forcing others or segregating them from the public like we’re seeing.. Non vaccinated people are not the plague, nor do they carry the plague, nor do vaccines bleach you or make disease less virulent.. This herd immunity thing is BS, and cannot be obtained artificially, especially when all those shots last a couple years at best. If they’re sick, right on quarantine at home, but should be the same for vaxxed that are asymptomatic carriers from many shots. The vaxxed are in fact often times the source of outbreaks, yet the media spins this around and blames the non vaxxed. Come on folks.

  • Neil Hallett

    LOL … the comments section on this agenda-led, industry-funded hit-piece isn’t infiltrated, or is that infested, by a conspicuous gathering of pharma shills. It just looks like that. Anyone interested or worried about mandatory vaccination should be relieved that so many well-informed experts have taken the time to comment. The history of Bayer and Merck, in concert with with the US FDA, can easily be overlooked when making a minor judgement on your child’s life.

  • Astreja

    Free speech refers specifically to the government. There is no obligation whatsoever for any blog writer, at Patheos or elsewhere, to provide an open forum to everyone who comes along.

    For the record, I am firmly in the pro-vaccine camp and see anti-vaxxers and their propaganda as a clear and present danger to public health. Many of the other regular visitors to WACB share this perspective. You are preaching to the wrong choir from the wrong pulpit.

  • Crystal

    Furthermore this article isn’t journalism. It also clearly has an opinion it’s pushing. True journalism presents facts and both sides, not half truths laced with a bunch of opinions.

  • Crystal

    Which by the way is exactly the same thing these groups do which makes this article just as bad.

  • bouncedancer

    Jenner gets credit for “introducing” the smallpox vaccine. You’re not addressing what he said. There is a British town that got famous for quarantining its citizens instead of accepting the smallpox vaccine when an epidemic was going around. Its citizens had dramatically fewer cases and not many injuries or deaths ….

  • bouncedancer

    Few people died of polio before the vaccines. The live polio vaccine left a relative quadriplegic and was the only cause of polio in the western world for the last 20 years of its use.
    ALL the photos of people in iron lungs were from the Cutter Incident — contaminated polio vaccine, which was also contaminated with a simian cancer virus for many years. No thanks.

    The vaccines are still terribly contaminated, and nothing is being done about it, because the manufacturers are free from liability and there is no oversight.

  • Despina Arzouman

    A lot of people ARE NOT PRACTICED IN, or are too medicated to know, or feel the Desire to KNOW THY SELF, and develop their INHERENT ABILITY to become ABLE to Feel-INto HOW to MANAGE their own HEALTH, or their children’s REAL HEALTH (“whole-th”) down to the cellular level. They ‘love’ their pills with fancy names, and talk about their diseases as if they are badges of honor. The Rockefellers initiated the DESTRUCTION of Natural Remedies, as well as the ‘war’ against humanity and Real Freedom [Look it up, unless that has already been censored too]. We should also consider that while external pollution is bad enough.. people (like sheeples) have been trained to unconsciously ingest, imbibe toxic substances — which is oft followed by the phrase: “hmmm it tastes good” — without a care to know what thoughts and measures and chemical substances where deliberately designed (through “scientific manipulation”) that went into the “food substance” they’re glomming down. {And “WHO” wrote the Legislation regulations of how much poison is allowed to be infused into their “food”}. Then, most people will watch tv to view their favorite toxic tv programming (yes.. “programming”) which affects their brain development (causing their MINDS to lose connectivity with their INDIVIDUAL Conscious SELF –including, but not limited to, any higher thinking principles which may ensue of their OWN ACCORD . Then, their brains are left with the ideas implanted into their psyche which, when repeated on a regular basis (including the constant interruption with drug advertisements), cause the brain to believe that what the senses took-in FROM A ‘MADE-UP’ False narrative REPRESENTATION OF REALITY]. Then people try to pretend to “be like” something they “saw” — which can only be a short-lived act– as if one can wear consciousness like a garment of clothing. Then there’s the addiction behaviors of staring into CELL-phones, and receiving mesmerizing blips of blue-light imagery causing sense-perceptions in the brain to believe that what they’re seeing is ‘real’… followed by constantly receiving misinformation from high-salaried ‘smiley faced liars’ through mainstream news media (owned by pharmaceutical companies controlled by the Corporate Oligarchy of the United States). Then they go and earn “diplomas” and “degrees” from SCHOOLING SYSTEMS [“herding systems”] which teach young people how to give “correct answers” instead of develop REASONING SKILLS — so they can get a good job and make a lot of money to support the CORRUPT “people” who are destroying the planet and humanity. Hence… their brains have been put so out of balance, and are so confused, that there is a very narrow margin of ANYTHING THAT REFLECTS THEIR BRAIN’S CAPACITY TO DO ANY REAL THINKING and winds-up in being further disabled to NAVIGATE their REAL GIFT to USE their multi-faceted neural-network in their brain which would enable them to RE-COGNIZE what is Real from counterfeit. Prevention and Real Health comes from MINDFULNESS… not “going to the doctor” for any little imbalance in the body. Conscience (which, IRONICALLY, means “with”-“science”) must take precedence in our THINKing if we are to survive as a Species. The “experts” will NEVER KNOW what is The BALANCE OF WHAT YOU TRULY NEED. What ARE you eating, seeing, doing/ experiencing, accepting, rejecting, comparing/ contrasting… what appetites, proclivities /inclinations, preferences, prejudices, limitations, beliefs are HOLDING YOUR BRAIN IN CHECK because you’re afraid that BIG BROTHER won’t give you the monetary reward and luxuries you’ve been made to believe “that you deserve.” Life is Hard Work, it takes THINKING and developing FORESIGHT. The “cloth” of people’s psyches have unraveled and people want someone else to do their THINKing for them, and put a bandage on the HOLES in their soul forms. What we have earned is HELLth ‘care’. THE MEDI-CULT IS ABOUT HELLth.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    This article did present the facts. There aren’t two sides to this issue. There are facts and there are lies.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only shills I see here are for the anti-vax predators trying to pretend that they’re smarter than everyone else even as they put people’s lives in danger.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Facebook is a private entity. The first amendment does not apply. Please learn what the constitution actually says before you try to preach about it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Polio disabled many people who contracted it, including my grandfather’s older brother. In fact, the oldest polio survivor was diagnosed with it the same year that my mother was exposed. Good thing Grandpa wasn’t an anti-vaxxer.

    Do you have any evidence for your claim about the iron lung photos? Something tells me that you don’t.

    Your claim about the manufacturers has already been debunked multiple times in this comment section alone.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Edward Jenner performed what was essentially the first clinical trial. His use of cowpox to inoculate against smallpox was so successful at reducing death rates that Napoleon was releasing prisoners of war so they could be vaccinated.

  • Shula Edelkind

    You have used the word “misinformation” very carelessly. If the word means “information that is not true” then it cannot be used to describe most of what is discussed on Larry Cook’s Facebook group. I have gone to the effort of looking up most claims made by people posting on there — including some that are worded in a way to sound quite extreme. Like “poison” in the vaccines. Is there any? Well, yes, there is. Thus, this is not misinformation. It is TRUE information. You surely are not going to claim that formaldehyde, thimerosal, or aluminum hydroxide are NOT poisons, are you? And yes — they’re IN there, according to the CDC. You do believe the CDC, don’t you?

    That video mentioned in your article about somebody claiming they would “rather their child have autism than measles” is not something anybody in Cook’s group made up. I would think they shared it from a pro-vax group. I have heard it numerous times, and indeed it has been quoted over and over by PRO-vax preople. Such things are frequently shared on the anti-vax site and discussed. But that is not misinformation — it is a discussion.

    You want to know what is MISinformation? The continual juxtaposition of the word “deadly” next to the word “measles in so-called news articles” Sure … if you wait long enough, somebody will die. And of course people die all the time in the Third World — but there they die of anything. We live in the First World and should not forget we have flushing toilets and sanitation. Nevertheless, I do know a man who almost died of stubbing his toe. But we don’t go around talking about how deadly it is to stub your toe, do we?

    I have been collecting the research on vaccine safety — and I am sorry to say that to date I haven’t found any studies on safety that were done well. Most were done by the guys making money off vaccines — you want to believe them? Go ahead, but don’t ask ME to believe them. The very few studies actually using an unvaxxed group for comparison have shown that those getting the DPT shot had double the mortality of those not getting it (when the unvaxxed group was fragile and unable to be vaccinated) … and FIVE times the mortality of the unvaxxed group when the demography of both groups was similar. So, now, really … who is dealing with misinformation? The researchers with the data who can prove what I just said? Or the people insisting that the DPT shot has saved millions of lives around the world? SAYING that vaccines are safe and effective is misinformation. Vaccine safety has not been proved. It has NEVER been proved. And if you look at those studies that claim to prove it, they don’t. It is laughable. And so those to whom vaccines provide income are now saying it louder. And louder. And with a bigger stick. If their stick gets big enough, does that make it true? Is that the kind of freedom of speech our forefathers envisioned when they wrote the US Constitution?

  • Charlie

    Oh, yeah, we committed the big FB-no-no of sharing vaccine package inserts from the FDA website, which spell out all the symptoms (and deaths!) we’re seeing in ourselves and our children. So Facebooks is collapsing, and all 167,000 members are migrating over to MeWe —
    https://mewe.com/group/5c68fbe3f8f78c2c1891d08d

    As Facebook kicks people out by the millions, only the sheep will be left.

  • Charlie

    Taking enough Vitamin C is more effective at preventing measles than the vaccine is. Look it up.

  • Ian

    Are you kidding me? They don’t care about the real misinformation. It’s the truth they want to cut. Btw, Polio does still exist and yes, it actually is starting to be caused more by vaccine than the wild. Misinformation? Prove me wrong!

  • RainbowPhoenix

    If that were true, measles would have been wiped out before a vaccine was invented.

  • Astreja

    Got any peer-reviewed studies? There’s a lot of talk and bluster about Vitamin C, and a million and one pro-Vitamin-C websites, but I’m not aware of any evidence-based support for infectious disease claims. The body does need it for producing collagen and healing wounds, but it isn’t a magic bullet.

  • Astreja

    Cobbling together a YouTube video is trivially easy, compared to the work of setting up double-blinded medical studies and then writing a paper and having it peer-reviewed and published in a suitable journal.

    That’s why the signal-to-noise ratio is so bad: Many more self-appointed “experts” on the Internet than real ones (who are generally busy doing actual work rather than playing around with webcams).

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You mean the package inserts that are on every FDA-approved medication, and which don’t mention the bigoted idea that being autistic is worse than death?

  • Bonnie Rourke

    So you think only the government can censor?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The government is the only entity bound by the restrictions of the first amendment. Facebook’s platform, Facebook’s rules.

  • FRLBJ

    Where’s your proof? What study was done on you? Where are the citations about your case in scientific journals? Come on! You claim you have such proof. What is it?

  • Crystal

    “A massive Facebook group dedicated to spreading fear and misinformation” – Opinion about what this group is dedicated to.

“Apparently, Larry Cook’s time as the reigning king of anti-vaccine propaganda” – Opinion based on writers viewpoint of what propaganda is.

“Additionally, he encouraged people to opt-in to his email list to continue to help him spread his misinformation.” – Again, opinion that the information he is sharing is misinformation.

    “Cook’s group has routinely shared misinformation that scares parents into not vaccinating their children.” – Again, opinion that blames Cook for parents’ decisions and purports that his group is only sharing misinformation.

    “His advice puts children, adults, and the immunocompromised of contracting deadly diseases.” – Again, OPINION.

    
Discrimination:

“Facebook announced changes to its community guidelines related to groups and pages that spread vaccine misinformation.” – Obviously they aren’t applying it to groups who support vaccines and spread lies about them being safe.

    The OBVIOUS TRUTH OF MEDICINE…

    “The poster warned people that there are consequences to vaccinating their children.” – There is nothing wrong with doing this… there are dangers to EVERY SINGLE MEDICATION OUT THERE. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s not opinion. It’s a statement of fact, easily verifiable by anyone outside the anti-vaxxer echo chamber.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Literally every study that has been in a scientific journal. There are at least a hundred on the debunked autism link alone.

  • bouncedancer

    The fallacy is to think that the vaccine would protect you. There are many signs that the vaccine helps spread the disease, like they so often do. The pertussis vaccine may make the vaccinated person asymptomatic all while he/she is spreading the pathogen because their throats and noses are now colonized with the pathogen.

  • bouncedancer

    I don’t give credence to commenters debunking science–too funny.
    What claim about the manufacturers are you referring to — that they don’t have liability? That the vaccines are contaminated? That there is no oversight?

  • bouncedancer

    It hasn’t been proven that the vaccine got rid of smallpox — ALL epidemics died down and disappeared before vaccines were used.

    From Dr. Tom Mack:
    “If people are worried about endemic smallpox, it disappeared from this country not because of our mass herd immunity. It disappeared because of our economic development. And that’s why it disappeared from Europe and many other countries, and it will not be sustained here, even if there were several importations, I’m sure. It’s not from universal vaccination.”

  • bouncedancer

    See, that’s the problem — there are no gold-standard studies of the childhood vaccines! It’s the only pharmaceutical that gets this pass; everything else has to go through rigorous gold-standard studies.
    When I went on PubMed to look for myself, I found exactly ONE such study (gold standard = enough people, double-blind, inert placebo). This was on the flu vaccine, done on 1,600-some children in Senegal(!). None of the unvaccinated died; 2 of the vaccinated died so it was considered well tolerated …. “Efficacy: 0.0%.”

  • bouncedancer

    Really? Where are these hundreds of studies that debunk the autism link? Not on PubMed. I know of a LOT of links that connect the two.

  • bouncedancer

    Literally nothing in your reply is true. I can only conclude that you’re a troll.

  • bouncedancer

    CAUSATION ALWAYS IMPLIES CORRELATION.

  • bouncedancer

    The experiments with a modified version of the measles virus stemmed from real-life cases.
    “only the rubella component is known to shed.” Very wrong; all live-virus vaccines can shed. Why do you think the Mayo Clinic and others keep the recently vaccinated away from their immune-compromised patients.

  • bouncedancer

    Nobody does from the measles in this country anymore, though a handful die from the vaccine.

  • Crystal

    You mean easily verifiable by anyone inside the force people to do things with their body regardless of their opinion echo chamber.

    There are no third party UNBIASED reports of how there are absolutely no dangers to vaccines because EVERY medication has side effects.

    They aren’t facts, they are opinions.

    Regardless, people have a right to body autonomy. No one has a right to tell you what to do with your body. PERIOD.

  • Crystal

    Also, it is common throughout our history for people, experts, companies, etc. to make claims that something is totally safe and later find out it in fact isn’t. Two of the most common examples of this are X-rays and Chemo and Radiation treatments.

  • bouncedancer

    This page is absolutely crawling with trolls, which get paid per reply. I’m outta here.

  • Crystal

    I feel like everyone is really missing the point here. This specific article is about shutting down someone’s opinion based on the information they have gathered. Right or wrong, is really not the point. People should be allowed to express their opinion on a freedom of speech basis.

    Also, no one forces parents not to vaccinate. Parents opt in or out of vaccinations at their own peril. All people should get a well rounded perspective on anything before making a decision.

    In addition, people who are for vaccinations aren’t always for MANDATORY vaccinations. Those who are should consider that everyone’s body responds differently to different things. It’s why some people can’t take Benadryl while others can, why some people respond to certain diet regimens and why some people can’t drink milk and others can. By forcing people to vaccinate, you are supporting something that WILL INEVITABLY be dangerous for some people.
    This inhibits a person’s ability to take care of themselves properly.

    Even if vaccines were 100% safe (and I’m not saying it is or isn’t, although I do recognize that every medication has side effects so to ignore this piece of information would be reckless… equally reckless would be to ignore the potential damage we could avoid with those vaccines that ARE safe… I digress.) Even if they were 100% safe, MANDATORY vaccines violate a person’s right to body autonomy.

    It is in each of our best interests to support freedom of choice if we wish to maintain our own freedoms. We have to be willing to stand up for others rights whether we disagree with them or not. WHICH MEANS: People who don’t want to vaccinate have that right… and people who don’t do not have the right to tell people who do that they can’t.

    Mandatory vaccines are not about vaccines… this is a topic that concerns the right to freedom of choice… this is not just an American born core value, this is a natural birth right for all living beings.

  • Why do you talk like you have ZERO sense?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And we have the vaccine to thank for the lack of deaths.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Everything you listed is a statement of fact, not an opinion. The risk of vaccines is orders of magnitude lower than the diseases they prevent.

    You do not have a right to callously put others in danger just because you want to pretend you’re smarter than anyone else. My brother is badly immunocompromised due to a bout of viral meningitis. Your predatory misinformation campaign is a direct threat to his life. No one should have to go through what my grandfather went through when New York City was hit with a whooping cough epidemic.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    X-rays, chemo, and radiation are vital tools in medical treatment, even with their risk. Though it wouldn’t surprise me if you’re one of the ignorami who think cyanide poisoning is a better way to treat cancer.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only link you have is Andrew Wakefield and his imitators, who have been rightly disgraced after it was discovered that Wakefield manufactured a risk for the sole purpose of creating a market for his own measles-only vaccine.

    Besides, I’m autistic, and I find that preferable to being dead from an easily preventable disease.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Those commenters provided direct links to the facts they cited to debunk your bald-faced lies about vaccine producers.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My grandfather was one of six siblings. Only three of them reached adulthood. My father is also one of six. All of them made it. What changed during that time? It was the invention of a vaccine for the illness that took two of grandpa’s brothers back-to-back.

    By the way, the virulence of the vaccines themselves has been extensively studied. It is far lower than the virulence of the disease itself, to the point of non-existent in many cases. Doctors also directly recommend that recently vaccinated individuals avoid immunocompromised individuals for a few days as a precaution.

  • Crystal

    Uhm, first of all, I in no way said we should NOT use Xray and chemo technologies. I’m merely pointing out that when they came out, they said they were safe. Turns out they aren’t and people suffered because of it.

    Second of all, it is extremely rude to call people names and also extremely unbecoming to assume something about someone simply because they are bringing up valid points.

    I understand this is a very sensitive topic for people and there are experiences on both sides that are very painful and scary for the other. But that’s not really an excuse to be rude with someone having a conversation with you.

    If we want to solve problems and come to agreements, it is a good idea to treat people with respect. Mutual respect means we can all come to the table and actually solve it, find a common ground instead of name calling and insisting our side is right or the one with all the facts.

    There are many ways to solve problems… none of which include being rude to another because they have a different opinion.

  • Crystal

    I agree that prevention is not only less expensive but a key strategy.I do however, feel that people have a right to choose what strategy they personally use.

    The thing with ‘nothing to hide’ is that that is always the story until information comes out that reveals otherwise. And, it often does. Now I’m not saying pharma is all bad and ef them all, lol… but I am saying that there are pharma companies who have been revealed as less than ethical and prior to that the people would have said there was nothing to hide as well… and unfortunately have tainted the name of any legit company actually trying to do good.

  • Crystal

    Charlie, I would be interested in that as well if you would please guide me to some studies I would very much appreciate that.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’re not having a conversation. You’re just repeating lies that have been debunked many times and defending people who are putting the publics health in danger.

    This isn’t about “different opinions”. This is about one side living in complete denial of reality even as they actively endanger people’s lives. All of the evidence points to vaccines being both effective and

    The only thing needed to solve the anti-vaxxer problem is for them to start paying attention to what the evidence says instead of staying in their delusion about being smarter than everyone else.

    If you want to be respected, then show respect by not passing off LIES as merely “a different opinion.”

  • RainbowPhoenix

    This article is about stopping people from putting the public’s health in danger by spreading lies.

    My brother has the right not to have to hide at home just because some fool who bought the debunked vaccine-autism connection decided that their precious snowflake should be able to make other people sick.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vaxxer predators.

    By the way, I don’t need to be paid to stand up for my brother’s health.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax predators.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    All communicable diseases shed. Vaccines do so at a far lower rate than the diseases they prevent. Don’t use words without knowing what they means.

  • Crystal

    “OOO look, scary words”??? Seriously, if you have a legitimate argument I’m more than happy to have a conversation but mocking people and disrespecting them… oh and again, assuming what they do and do not know is not going to solve anything.

    And your great grandparents losing two children to whooping cough in no way has anything to do with mandatory vaccinations.

    And as sad as this is, the number of deaths related to prescription medications is gigantic. So people don’t trust pharma companies. And it may not be their fault. It could be misprescribed by doctors it could be a lot of things… could be an allergic reaction 9another reason to let people have body autonomy)… regardless, people don’t trust them.

    You can mock them… but that won’t solve anything. And if you TRULY believe that vaccines are helpful and good, you’ll stop hurting your own cause by disrespecting people and start having conversations with them, listening and sharing and helping to spread information.

    As of yet, I have not heard one piece of legit information coming from you other than your anecdote of your great grandparents losing two children to whooping cough to support your perspective. So if you want to have an intelligent conversation, awesome! If you’re just going to call people names, you’re truly only exposing the pro vaxers as less intelligent so you should consider not typing so as to stop hurting your side.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Clearly someone who has no clue how disease transmission works.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Nope. What changed and brought about the massive 98% reduction in mortality was clean water, better nutrition, waste disposal. All before 1950 before most vaccines (except smallpox) were in widespread use.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The commenter I was originally replying to had already clearly demonstrated that he does not know what the words he uses actually mean. He has provided no substantial argument that warrants debate. Any response more serious than mockery would only validate his ignorance.

    What happened to my great uncles has everything to do with mandatory vaccinations. The more people are vaccinated, the fewer people are capable of contracting the illness. The fewer people capable of contracting the illness, the fewer chances the illness has to spread to people who are not protected against it. This is herd immunity 101.

    Haven’t you wondered why I had to go back to my grandfather’s generation? It’s because between the deaths of my great uncles and my father’s birth, the introduction of the whooping cough vaccine was near-immediately followed by a titanic drop in whooping cough cases. We have the vaccines to thank for the fact that my grandparents’ generation was the last in my family to have to go through any thing like that.

    If you want the anti-vax side to be taken seriously, they need to stop spreading LIES that have been debunked hundreds of time, and they need to stop engaging in bigoted behavior against autistic people. The anti-vax crowd has only itself to blame for its lack of credibility outside its own echo chamber.

  • Brian

    Just one point of clarification- The recently vaccinated don’t pose risk to the immunocompromised. This only applies to a few specific vaccines and the only most extreme cases of immunocompromised individuals, which are likely quarantined in hospitals anyway.

    There is an immunocompromised person in my immediate family. He receives all vaccines without issue (but there is a higher probability the vaccine won’t provide immunity).

  • Crystal

    You mean like Typhoid Mary?
    That’s what the flu vaccine did a few years ago… the shot was fine, but the spray people got was spreading the flu like wildfire.

    I have a couple friends… a husband and wife. Every year, she gets the flu shot and every year, she gets the flu… the husband only gets the flu shot every other year and on the years he gets the flu shot he gets the flu… I never get the flu shot… and I haven’t had the flu since I was a kid when I got the flu shot… I find that interesting.

  • Crystal

    I agree. The idea that vaccines were the only thing to change is completely inaccurate and it’s very reckless to decide we should have mandatory vaccines based on this. Tons of things have changed since that time.

  • Crystal

    That’s really interesting, thank you for sharing! Do you have links to supporting documents you could provide?

    I’m not as proficient on this subject as I’d like to be.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Those things have nothing to do with the transmission of airborne disease.

    It was improvements in water sanitation that made the polio epidemic so bad in the first place. Polio was once so ubiquitous that pretty much everyone got it in their first four years of life, which is when it’s safest. When water sanitation improved, people stopped getting that early exposure. The cases that did happen occurred at later, more dangerous ages.

    This is why there was once a myth that black people couldn’t get polio. Discriminatory policies in the 1950s delayed water sanitation development in minority areas. People there were being exposed the old, safer way, while the wealthy white people were the ones being exposed the new, more dangerous way.

    Our ability to enjoy clean water is a direct benefit of the polio vaccine.

  • Crystal

    Michael, do you know where we can all find the VAC Court’s pay out info? It would be nice to know where to find this information.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s only inaccurate if you completely ignore all evidence in favor of your delusions of intelligence.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    That’s true. I should have been more specific about that. My family tends to be careful because my oldest brother is badly immunocompromised.

  • Brian

    I keep hearing about paid trolls. I personally would love to make some extra money doing something as easy as debunking nonsense on the internet.

    Do you know where I can sign up to get paid per post?

  • Brian

    One is true and the other is not.

  • Crystal

    Here’s where things get complicated. You can’t replicate the evidence the way science expects. That is simply because there are too many variables in play in the real world… from mother’s lifestyle, to previous diet… I mean there is now science based evidence that talks about us inheriting our ancestors memories on a cellular level like DNA… so amazing! I digress. My point is, there is not way to do this that science can accept.

    Because science expects experiments with one variable and everything else controlled. That’s why, even though tons of people get sick from things, it takes forever for the courts to acknowledge it… it’s not a conspiracy… it’s simply how the system is designed. And while I personally disagree, my partner brought up a very good point… without the single variable and others controls, science simply has no way to be legitimate… no way to find the truth. So I get why it is that way. But the reality is, that what science is expecting for proof, may simply be impossible. But that does not mean it isn’t happening. Again, I understand why the court and science operate that way… it protects companies from false accusations and presumes people to be innocent… that’s really the only way for us to proceed.

    But things are not people. In fact, it is only healthy to have a certain suspicion towards things you don’t understand nor don’t know about… if we didn’t have that, we wouldn’t have survived as a species… so even if you think that anti vaxers are wrong, it isn’t wrong for them to be suspicious and not trust. It’s the only healthy thing to do.

  • FRLBJ

    The child dies and is lost! That is the ultimate affect!!! Your brother needs to stay away from others then!!!!

  • Crystal

    I agree. If we are talking about something as serious as taking people’s freedom of choice away, then the company needs to prove without a shadow of a doubt that they are not only safe, but do what they say they are going to do.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Excellent job of completely missing the point. My post was about mortality from infectious diseases. By the way, nice job of making the point that early childhood is when people used to get infectious diseases like measles, chicken pox, mumps etc. All fairly benign in well nourished populations of kids. Can’t decide if blind squirrel or stopped clock applies best to you.

  • FRLBJ

    Everyone has access to it. Every ER is obliged to treat the indigent.Many simply do not avail themselves of it because they do not care!

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s not a child at that point. And nice job showing the callousness of the anti-choice crowd. It’s arguments like yours that prove that it has nothing to do with “life” and everything to do with controlling women.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Vaccines are easily understandable if you’re willing to step outside your echo chamber. The very first vaccine was so successful that Napoleon was releasing POWs so they could get it.

  • Crystal

    And I personally am in the same boat as you but on the opposite side. You want proof that vaccines are bad and do harm (which requires a variable and specific set of controls in order to do so because anything else is circumstantial) and I require proof they are 100% safe (which also cannot be done because examples of the past seem to be historical, but not necessarily without circumstantial evidence to the contrary).

    And truthfully, I’m not sure it would make a difference to me personally. I still have to support laws that preserve peoples freedoms… Mandatory anything takes people’s freedoms from them.

  • Crystal

    Again, you seem to be in the echo chamber… I still have yet to receive any legitimate argument supporting why it’s okay take people’s freedom’s away.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You had no point. You only had one of the many LIES that anti-vax predators spread to continue their delusion of being smarter than they are. I guess you think we should get rid of all water sanitation since that’s what’s preventing people from getting the safest form of polio. Or we could just use the vaccine that has reduced wild poliovirus to only three countries.

    By the way, my grandmother’s older sister died from complications of childhood measles. So take your asinine claim that letting someone get sick is better than just using the vaccine and shove it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only echo chamber is the one the anti-vax predators use to pretend that they’re smarter than everyone else.

    By the way, I’m still waiting for you to address the fact that anti-vaxxers pose a direct danger to my brothers life due to the damage to his immune system.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’ve heard plenty of credible arguments. You just don’t want to acknowledge them because being anti-vax is your religion.

  • Crystal

    Well good! Then I’m not in an echo chamber! Because I’m not and have not once pretended to be smarter than you. In fact, I think I’ve tried very hard to engage you in conversation that is a discussion versus just saying you’re wrong, I’m right. And I feel like there are just as many people in here in an echo chamber for vax as against. In fact, I haven’t seen very much in the way of any concrete evidence either way.

    And I must have missed the comment about your brother, please repeat or direct me to the comment.

  • Alexander Porter

    Clearly you’re in denial about the lack of evidence proving vaccines eliminated smallpox.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Except for all the evidence that you ignore so you don’t have to give up your anti-vaccine religion.

  • Alexander Porter

    Oh, please. Coming from the person who claims that the lives of those who have been injured by vaccines are less important than those who who might be infected by a virus or disease.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You are in an echo chamber. You willfully ignore anything that doesn’t line up with your anti-vax religion. You haven’t been trying to engage me in conversation, you’ve just been repeating lie after lie that science has disproven many times over. Holding on to your anti-vax religion is more important to you than evidence or even other people’s lives.

    I’ve mentioned my brothers immunity issues at least half a dozen times in in this comment section alone. It’s obvious that you just don’t want to address it because it would reveal how callous and selfish you really are.

  • Alexander Porter
  • RainbowPhoenix

    What lives? Give numbers and proof that they were injured by vaccines and that it was not just coincidence.

    While you’re at it, look up how herd immunity works.

  • Alexander Porter

    Herd immunity is a model – it has never been achieved, nor does it work in the modern US context. There is less than half of adults that aren’t current on the CDC’s recommended schedule and it’s fact that vaccines wear off – most of which by ten years. The number and proof are the uptick of ASD. If you really need it broken down, the gist of it is this: Infants are especially susceptible to aluminum hydroxide adsorption into brain tissue as they have ‘leakier’ BBBs, and the solubility increased by the aid of Tween 80. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X17308763 If you’re seriously stating there is no link between vaccines and autism, you’re behind in the research. Their manufacturers won’t even stand behind their products, you only do out of fear and lies you’ve been fed about your family.

  • Alexander Porter

    It’s not a religion, it’s called toxicology. Maybe you should look into it. It would serve everyone well, instead of you holding up your damaged family as proof that everyone just blast their babies with toxic metals and contaminated DNA, and that we should just accept that all vaccines are ‘safe and effective’. Clearly you’re not a scientist, nor do you understand the scientific method.

  • Crystal

    You’re literally saying that taking people’s freedom of choice away is acceptable. If that’s so, you might consider moving to a country that does not allow people to make their own choices

  • Crystal

    First of all, you keep saying that I’m echo chamber… aka you keep echoing it.
    Also,
    I have already said I believe in freedom of choice as a core value.
    That is not being a religious anti vax person that is me being an
    American who values not just the rights of Americans but the natural
    right of man.

  • Crystal

    Unfortunately, this comment thread is so long things get lost.

    At
    the moment, you are more interested in fighting with anti vaxers than
    having a conversation. I politely asked you to repeat or direct me and
    while I remember you mentioning you grandparents and great grandparents I
    do not recall your speaking about your brother.

  • Crystal

    However, I fail to see how anti vaxers post a threat to those with
    compromised immune systems if those people are vaccinated then they are
    supposedly protected against getting the thing they were vaccinated
    against?

  • Crystal

    Furthermore it is the responsibility of an individual to protect
    themselves if they have compromised immune systems. It is not your
    responsibility to make sure you never eat peanuts in public because you
    might cause someone in your immediate vicinity to have an allergic
    reaction. It’s also the person who is allergic to make sure they have
    proper gear in order to combat that… like an epi pen. So maybe people
    with compromised immune systems need to make sure they are vaccinated
    and have proper sanitation gear like masks, etc. when they are in
    public.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Herd immunity has been achieved. You anti-vax predators ruined it with your misinformation campaigns.

    There is no link behind vaccines and autism. There have been literally hundreds of studies confirming this every since Wakefield committed academic fraud.

    And so what if there is? I’m autistic, and I find that preferable to being dead from easily preventable diseases.

    As for your claim that my family lied. 6Fuck9 you. 9Fuck6 you right in your lying, bigoted a$$. I’ve seen the graves and the death certificates.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’re literally saying that your delusions are more important than other people’s lives.

  • Crystal

    No, I am saying freedom of choice is a natural right of man and to forfeit that would mean to forfeit that which makes us human to begin with.

  • Crystal

    You’re literally putting words in my mouth.

  • Crystal

    Freedom of choice is not a delusion. It’s a natural right of man and furthermore, one of the most important American values.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It is a religion. You cling to it in the face of all rational evidence for no other reason than to preserve an undeserved sense of superiority. If you had even the slightest understanding of the scientific method or epidemiology you would be in favor of vaccines.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, you’re saying that your delusions make it okay for you to put other people’s lives in danger. You have yours so you don’t care about anyone else.

  • Friend

    Poor women don’t care about having healthy babies?

  • Crystal

    No, I’m saying that freedom of choice is
    a natural right of man and to forfeit that would mean to forfeit that which makes us human to begin with.You are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

  • Crystal

    Are you saying freedom of choice is a delusion? That freedom of choice isn’t a natural right all people should have?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I’m saying that we have a responsibility to protect each other. I’m saying that we do not have the right to endanger others in order to satisfy our own selfish delusions.

  • Crystal

    Yes, and by protecting people’s freedom of choice, we are protecting the sanctity of what it means to be human.

    If your brother is vaccinated, then he is protected from those who aren’t… because he can’t get what they are vaccinated from. So I fail to see how that endangers him in any way.

  • Crystal

    So am I correct to assume that you feel it is right to take people’s freedom of choice away from them then? And to take their body autonomy away from them? Meaning that the law has a right to force people to do whatever it wants with people’s body and the person should NOT have a choice. That is what you are saying by supporting mandatory vaccinations.

    It doesn’t matter what your justification is, sound or unsound. You are saying you, others, the government, etc. have a right to take people’s freedom of choice away and their right to body autonomy.

  • Crystal

    I’ll ask again… are you saying that freedom of choice is a selfish delusion? If not, what exactly are you saying is a selfish delusion? Body autonomy?

  • Alexander Porter

    No, ‘we’ don’t. But we do have the vaccine to thank for over 5700 cases of seizures domestically from the MMR https://physiciansforinformedconsent.org/news/physicians-informed-consent-finds-mmr-vaccine-causes-seizures-5700-u-s-children-annually/

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Already asked and answered. You just don’t want to acknowledge it because it reveals how callous and selfish you are.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Yes, we do have the vaccine to thank for that. No matter what your anti-vax religion says.

  • Crystal

    You did not answer. Yes or no… you believe freedom of choice and body autonomy are selfish delusions?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    He is immunocompromised. The damage to his immune system weakened his vaccines and likely undid them entirely. You don’t care about that though. You’ve made it clear that you don’t care whose life is put in danger as long as you can keep living in the delusion of your anti-vax religion.

  • Alexander Porter

    Oh we’re swearing now. Maybe I could swear at you for your willful ignorance that is responsible for my nephew’s vaccine injury? He’s five and hasn’t spoken since his MMR shot at 15 months. I’m sure you’ll deny there was any relationship. And feel perfectly comfortable telling mothers of vaccine injured children they don’t know what the %*&# they’re talking about. Post one single study proving herd immunity has been achieved. I just gave you to prime statistical examples why it hasn’t. Put up or shut up.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Yes I did answer. You just don’t want to acknowledge it because it reveals how callous and selfish you are.

  • Crystal

    Well, maybe the vaccines are what did it to begin with.
    And if his immune system undid the vaccines likely did it entirely, then according to your philosophy, he is the threat to the public. As, all people not vaccinated are a threat, right?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You called the deaths in my family lies. You lost any right to expect civility. In fact, I’ve reported you for crossing that line.

    Your nephew’s disability has nothing to do with his vaccine. He was showing signs even beforehand, you just don’t have the training or experience to recognize them. I know this because I have the same condition as you’re nephew.

    The only thing you have given me is two examples of the many LIES that you anti-vax predators love to spread so you can continue to live your delusion of being smarter than everyone else.

    I feel very sorry for your nephew. It must be horrible to have a family that cares more about finding something to blame for a condition that he was born with rather than actually getting him the support he needs. And to have an uncle who outright says that he would be better off dead? I hope his parents keep you far away from him.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The damage was caused by viral meningitis when he was in his thirties. Such cases are also seen chemotherapy and advanced AIDs. This is exactly the kind of callousness I’m talking about. You are openly saying that you don’t care about the danger to his life because you just want excuses to continue justifying your anti-vax religion.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Typical vaxbot bullsh!t. The decrease in infectious disease mortality in the first half of the 20th century is well documented and is the greatest public health achievement in history. Vaxbots claiming mandatory vaccination saved millions of lives is like the rookie basketball player who made a layup in garbage time at the end of Wilt Chamberlain ‘s 100 point game. For the rest of his life he talked about “the night me and Wilt went for 102.”

  • RainbowPhoenix

    There is already extensive proof that vaccines are generally safe outside of a small number of people for him they are contraindicated for medical reasons, the people most in need of the protection provided by herd immunity. You just don’t want to acknowledge that because you’ve made the anti-vax movement your religion.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You were never interested in a conversation. The only thing you’ve ever been interested in justifying why it’s acceptable for you to put other people’s lives in danger.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Look up what compromised immune systems do to a person. You probably won’t because it will weaken your ability to make excuses for being selfish.

  • Crystal

    lol you keep throwing out this anti vax religion thing and this verbiage
    that just is completely inaccurate. My religion is my internal sense of
    what is right and wrong. And I believe it is wrong to take people’s body
    autonomy away from them nor do I believe in taking people’s freedom of
    choice away.

    I’m so sorry to tell you this but you’re actually projecting your own selfishness onto
    me. I stand up for the freedom of choice for ALL people including
    people who disagree with my personal choices and feeling about things. You on the other hand seem to think it is acceptable to force people to do things with their body they do not want done to it and to take their freedom of choice away all because of your attachment to your brother.

    Being for humanity… being able to make choices for humanity… it requires you to look past your personal experience and into what preserves the rights of all people. I’m sorry for your brothers’ experience but that is not enough of a reason to force an entire population to do something with their bodies they don’t want done.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Well, thank you for admitting that this has nothing to do with protecting people’s rights to autonomy.

  • Crystal

    Your brother needs to take every precaution possible. And would need to do so whether or not everyone was vaccinated. There are tons of things he could be exposed to beyond viruses we have vaccines for so his life and what he needs to do to protect that life wouldn’t change with forced vaccinations anyway

  • Alexander Porter

    I’ve posted data and research, and your arrogance supersedes anything you’ve posted. You don’t know my nephew, you don’t know what happened to him, and it’s ironic how mad you’re getting at me when you’re shouting such vitriolic, unscientific platitudes.

    All the papers I’ve linked are actual science. You should try it sometime.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’ve posted the same anti-vax lies that have been refuted hundreds of times.

    Why shouldn’t I be angry? You’ve accused me of lying about the deaths in the family and said that I personally would be better of dead than autistic. You have sacrificed any right to expect civility.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Typical anti-vax bulllsh!t. The decrease in infection due to widespread use of vaccines is well documented and is the greatest public health achievement in history. You’re just ignoring it because you’ve made the anti-vax movement your religion.

  • Alexander Porter

    I have chosen to research and feel strongly the narrative denies all the injuries caused by vaccines – the smallpox vaccine had many catastrophic failures resulting in deaths and destruction of countless people’s lives, including the polio vaccine development, DTP, swine flu, the list goes on, and because clearly you’re in no objective position to defend these children and I feel like I can. I have nothing to gain from these exchanges. Tell me, grand master, what is the cause for the meteoric rise in ASD in the United States? One better, name any one subject in any one field of study where the ‘science is settled’, as in, there is nothing more to learn by further study?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    If the whooping cough vaccine had been introduce twenty years earlier, my grandfather wouldn’t have lost two of his brothers. I likely wouldn’t even be here if not for the polio vaccine. Every asinine suggestion you make about what immunocompromised people should do proves that you don’t care at all about “autonomy”.

  • Alexander Porter

    Dear Mr. or Mrs. broken record, I have far more important things to do than internet battle with the likes of you. Good evening.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You obviously don’t because you keep repeating the same anti-vax lies that have been scientifically refuted hundreds of times.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You have chosen to ignore all evidence because you have made the anti-vax movement your religion. You feel strongly that you are smarter than everyone else and you are will to do whatever it takes to preserve that delusion, even at the cost of people’s lives.

    There is no increase in the rate of autism spectrum disorders. We have become aware of the fact that autism exists on a spectrum, and are continuously developed better tools to diagnose people who in earlier days would have slipped through the cracks.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You are correct to assume that I believe we should not put other people’s lives in danger for our own selfish reasons.

    It doesn’t matter what your justification is. You are putting other peoples lives in danger because you think you’re a special snowflake who shouldn’t have to worry about consequences.

  • Crystal

    First, I would like to point out that I watched you almost respond to several of my comments before withdrawing your response.

    2nd, you’ve reverted back to a topic unrelated to the one at hand because you have no sound argument for taking people’s rights away from them beyond some emotional ploy with your personal life.

    Also, I believe you misunderstand what the phrase body autonomy means… it’s the right to your own body… which your brother has. He has body autonomy… that is, the right to his own body and to make choices for himself based on that.

    You simply aren’t willing to preserve the whole of humanity and the natural rights of all people to have freedom of choice and body autonomy. And that’s okay, that’s completely your choice. And I respect that… because I respect your right to choose whatever stance you want. It simply isn’t mine. I’m sorry you can’t respect that and reduce yourself to name calling and false assumptions.

    But I wish you luck on your future arguments with people and I do hope next time you come with evidence beyond anecdotes meant to pull at people’s emotions and coerce them into sacrificing the idea of free choice and body autonomy and everything else that makes life worth living.

    Peace be with you and good luck on your journey through life.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    What happened to my family has everything to do with mandatory vaccinations. Vaccines are essential to make sure that no one else has to go through what my predecessors did.

    I have not falsely assumed anything. You have done nothing but make excuse after excuse for why you should be able to endanger people’s lives. You don’t care one bit about anyone else’s “autonomy” as long as you have what you want.

    The pro-vax side is the only side in this “debate” that ever uses evidence. The only thing you anti-vax predators have are loosely connected anecdotes designed to pull at people’s emotions, useless platitudes about “personal choice”, bigoted arguments about how autism is worse than dying from easily preventable diseases, and bald-faced lies.

    I hope that you develop a conscience and realize that your actions have a direct effect on other people. I hope you let go of your religious devotion to the anti-vax movement. I hope you realize and become as astonished as I am about your unmitigated selfishness that borders on sociopathy. Now take your condescending BS and shove it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Your only “core value” is the ability to be as selfish as you want without having to face consequences.

  • Crystal

    To conclude, you are saying that freedom of choice is selfish but mandatory vaccinations because of your brother (one person) in not selfish? lol.

    I feel like you’re the one who isn’t willing to look at how the choice of mandatory vaccinations affect others. You clearly only care about your brother in this matter and no one else.

    And you have stated several times that I’m delusional for my ideas… which are to preserve the natural rights of all humans to freedom of choice and body autonomy.

    You are throwing out accusations about who I am and assumptions and name calling a cussing because you have nothing to argue with and you are projecting what you are onto me. It is selfish to expect an entire population to vaccinate and have their freedoms ripped from them because of your brother. I’m sorry you fail to see that.

    Also, the definition of sociopathy… Sociopathy is an informal term that refers to a pattern of antisocial behaviors and attitudes, including manipulative and deceitful behavior, often arising from environmental factors.

    The environmental factor is your brother and his situation… the manipulative behavior is where you refused to answer my question directly but attempted to deflect time and time again when I asked you if you were saying it was appropriate to take people’s freedom of choice away and the right to body autonomy. You behavior and attitude isn’t inclusive but in fact is anti-social as you push everyone away who does not agree with you.

    So before you go accusing others of something you may simply want to look in the mirror.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Which they have done. You just don’t want to acknowledge it because your opposition has never been about “freedom of choice.” You just want to be a special snowflake that doesn’t have to worry about facing consequences for putting other people’s lives in danger.

  • Astreja

    May I inquire as to the total number of studies you examined, the search terms that you used to query PubMed, and your professional background vis-a-vis medicine, biochemistry and/or immunology?

  • Crystal

    And I get you’re angry and hurt because of what happened to your brother. But that does not excuse your behavior here.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You saw me withdraw responses because my computer was giving me trouble when I was attempting to reply.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Vaxbot projects his pathological delusion. You refuse to even recognize the decline in mortality due to improved living conditions. I didn’t say that vaccines had been of zero benefits. Eradicating smallpox was huge and vaccination was instrumental. But the virulence of smallpox had already declined in the West due partly to the advances I mentioned earlier.

    What about cholera? Getting in line for your cholera vaccine? Oh, you don’t have because Dr John Snow figured out that it was spread by contaminated water.

    The religious ardor is yours, by the way. Nothing must question The Church of the Holy Vaccine and its Prophets Paul Offit, Stanley Plotkin, Peter Hotez, Richard Pan, and Julie Gerberding. All have reaped hundreds of thousands to millions in license fees, grants, campaign contributions, and stock options.

  • Bonnie Rourke

    They can censor their platform if they want to. I don’t believe in censorship is good for anyone. It usually just calls more attention to what is being censored anyway. Facebook might censor itself out of business.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax predators. You refuse to recognize the decline in infection rates due to widely available vaccines. Eradicating smallpox was a direct result of the vaccine cutting off all vectors of contamination until the pathogen that causes the disease ran out of potential hosts entirely. The advances you list have no bearing on a diseases transmission vectors. Do you know anything about epidemiology?

    The religious fervor is entirely yours. You cling to it so desperately that you don’t even realize how much more pharmaceutical companies could make if they opposed vaccination in favor of merely treating diseases after the fact. The fact that your prophet Wakefield fabricated his fraudulent study for the sole purpose of creating a market for his own measles vaccine is just another example of how you’re projecting.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Letting anti-vax lies spread freely has directly resulted in the return of diseases that were nearing extinction.

  • Bonnie Rourke

    If they were nearing extinction, it was the vaccines that brought them back. People are getting vaccine-strain measles, not wild measles. And 48,000 children in India are paralyzed from live virus polio vaccines. Once you know the truth there is no going back.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Their resurgence was the direct consequence of anti-vaxxers and their misinformation campaign. The truth is that vaccines successfully wiped out smallpox and were on the verge of doing so with polio, measles, chicken pox, mumps, and rubella. Wild poliovirus is now found in only three countries despite once being endemic worldwide.

  • William Christenson

    Big Pharma is attacking all doctors, scientists, nurses, jouranlists, parents who are exposing the dangers of vaccines- pure and simple.. anyone who has take the time and had the courage to actually look at the evidence of vaccine injuries knows very well just how much is being hidden from the public.. The entire vaccine machine is built on lies of omission and fraudulent science.. BILLIONS OF DOLLARS quietly paid out by NVICP to vaccine injured people, but the overwhelming majority of vaccine injuries are never even REPORTED. OF the thousands reported, only a tiny few are compensated. therefore, the real numbers of dollars that should have been paid out to vaccine injured people is in the trillions and trillions. Harvard Pilgrim Study: “Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but underreported. […] Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. Low reporting rates preclude or slow the identification of ‘problem’ drugs and vaccines that endanger public health. New surveillance methods for drug and vaccine adverse effects are needed.”

    Again, let’s stop and think about this revelation for a moment: fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported. The CDC’s entire vaccination propaganda campaign rests on their claim that side effects from vaccination are exceedingly rare (and predominantly minor). According to the CDC, in 2016 alone, VAERS received 59,117 vaccine adverse event reports. Among those reports were 432 deaths, 1,091 permanent disabilities, 4,132 hospitalizations, and 10,274 emergency room visits. What if these numbers actually represent less than 1% of the total as this report asserts? Simple multiplication would yield vaccine adverse events reports numbering 5,911,700!

    ER Doctors, nurses, scientific analysis all confirm, overwhelming majority of vaccine injuries are NEVER reported.
    “Over the past thirty years, in conjunction with an escalation in vaccination numbers, millions of vaccine-related injuries have gone unreported. “ Dr David Davis (50 years as ER Doctor)

    http://truthsnitch.com/2017/10/24/cdc-silence-million-dollar-harvard-project-charged-upgrading-vaccine-safety-surveillance-system/#sthash.X1m60nwh.MjQCmaAt.dpbs
    https://www.healthyfamiliesforgod.com/blog/2015/11/er-nurse-shares-experiences-vaccine-reactions

  • William Christenson

    Please do NOT blindly trust the medical establishment or corporate media..Dr. Marcia Angell, a physician and longtime Editor in Chief of the New England Medical Journal (NEMJ), which is considered to another one of the most prestigious peer-reviewed medical journals in the world, makes her view of the subject quite plain:

    “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine” (sources all linked in article) http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/05/16/editor-in-chief-of-worlds-best-known-medical-journal-half-of-all-the-literature-is-false/

    Trust Merck?? Vioxx was killing THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE! But Merck hid the evidence and attacked anyone who spoke out
    “Merck made a “hit list” of doctors who criticized Vioxx, according to testimony in a Vioxx class action case in Australia. The list, emailed between Merck employees, contained doctors’ names with the labels “neutralise,” “neutralised” or “discredit” next to them.”
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-created-hit-list-to-destroy-neutralize-or-discredit-dissenting-doctors/

  • William Christenson

    PUBLIC is kept in the dark about vaccine injuries, this is blatantly obvious.. do not allow yourself to remain ignorant, please! “In accordance with section 312(b) of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, title III of Public Law 99-660, 100 Stat. 3779 (42 U.S.C. 300aa-1 note) and section 2114(c) of the Public Health Service Act, as amended (PHS Act) (42 U.S.C. 300aa-14(c)), the following is a table of vaccines, the injuries, disabilities, illnesses, conditions, and deaths resulting from the administration of such vaccines, and the time period in which the first symptom or manifestation of onset or of the significant aggravation of such injuries, disabilities, illnesses, conditions, and deaths is to occur after vaccine administration for purposes of receiving compensation under the Program.”
    https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/vaccinecompensation/vaccineinjurytable.pdf

  • Mike Stevens

    I can do a google search for alien abductions and watch the tons of videos and articles that pop up. So there is your proof.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Uhm, first of all, I in no way said we should NOT use Xray and chemo technologies. I’m merely pointing out that when they came out, they said they were safe.”
    Who said they were safe?
    Medical science has known since their inception as medical therapy that there are side effects and complications. Their therapeutic effect depends upon their toxicity to human tissues, after all.
    You are just parroting claims without evidence.

    You can’t “find common ground” when one side merely repeats disproven antivaccine propaganda and lies, and steadfastly refuses to alter its stance despite being shown evidence that it is wrong.

  • Mike Stevens

    “There are no third party UNBIASED reports of how there are absolutely no dangers to vaccines.”

    This claim is right out of the antivax playbook, chapter one (How to use strawman arguments as antivaccine propaganda).

    Tell you what Crystal, you show me someone here who has stated there are “absolutely no dangers to vaccines” and I’ll give $1000 to a charity of your choice.
    Should be easy money…

  • RainbowPhoenix

    But you’ll canonize a fraud who wanted to market his own vaccine?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    If “big pharma” were worried about profits, they would oppose vaccines. Your claim makes no logical or business sense.

  • Mike Stevens

    “People are getting vaccine-strain measles, not wild measles”
    Another lie. The vaccine does not cause measles.

    “48,000 children in India are paralyzed from live virus polio vaccines.”
    Another lie. The virology testing done on those with acute flaccid paralysis has shown no evidence of polio viruses, either wild type or vaccine strain. However, there are many viruses other than polio which can cause paralysis – there is a huge group of dozens of other enteroviruses for a start.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    What makes me angry is your selfishness and callousness that borders on sociopathy. Nothing excuses your repeatedly demonstrated desire TO PUT OTHER PEOPLE’S LIVES IN DANGER just so you can live out your fantasy of being a special snowflake.

  • Mike Stevens

    No, you are ok just reading the package inserts. But you also have to have sufficient intelligence to understand them.
    https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-package-inserts-debunking-myths/

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, the public is not kept in the dark about this. That lie has been debunked hundreds of times.

  • Mary

    Those are not misinformation… you are confusing giving misinformation with opinions and inaccuracies. But have you investigated those “misinformation”s to discover their truths or otherwise?? Don’t tell me you have not survived the world of opinions and inaccuracies happening all the time??! . But wait , talking about misinformation…. .. Tell me about Columbus and his “discovering the western world”?? And THAT is “official” “accurate expert” information” by your government and board of education. LOL!!! Facebook is SOCIAL MEDIA you fools! Or did you forget? It is a social gathering of people where they talk – once upon a time “FREELY.” When people gather they share information. Should I go monitor your sharing at home too??? Should I call the facebook or CDC police or Homeland Security when YOU share some inaccurate info in your home or to your neighbor?? … about physics?… oh wait… MATH – that’s a big one! Maybe we should arrest ALL TEACHERS?? … wait -STUDENTS yes STUDENTS…. and politicians??…. and advertisers??? and marketing professionals???? Know any? ahhh … wait… all cashiers…. all waiters…. all information desk operators…… all Apple employees …. .cable personnel…… ..Quick! – call Homeland!!!

  • Mike Stevens

    “Polio does still exist and yes, it actually is starting to be caused more by vaccine than the wild. Misinformation? Prove me wrong!”

    Sure… I am always glad to correct the antivax propaganda spewed out by Team Plague.

    Polio prevaccine:
    Wild polio – 350,000 cases each year.
    Vaccine associated polio – no cases each year.

    Post vaccine:
    Wild polio – 33 cases in 2018.
    Vaccine associated polio – 5 cases in 2018.

    Situation since 2000:
    13 million cases of polio paralysis prevented by vaccination
    Under 760 cases of vaccine associated polio reported.

    https://www.who.int/features/qa/64/en/
    https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/poliomyelitis

  • Mike Stevens

    Sorry, he won’t have any studies showing that because they don’t exist. He was making it up.

  • Mike Stevens

    “PUBLIC is kept in the dark about vaccine injuries, this is blatantly obvious.”
    …and so that’s why everyone who gets a vaccine is handed a “Vaccine Information Statement” which lists the possible side effects of the vaccine and how to report any suspected reactions?
    If that’s an attempt to “keep people in the dark” it’s an epic fail.

  • Mike Stevens

    Why? …Earned enough already today, have you?

  • Mary

    Vaccines are not preventing anything. Go read the vaccine inserts and do some researching their effects upon people. I’d like to know what antibody actually kills the virus – the vaccines’ which need the immune system to work, or the wild type antibodies. There is no test for that. and if you think the test is to test antibodies… well… if you read peer reviewed studies they always come across high antibodies not working, and low antibodies working – they cannot figure out why except that they know the immune system is not the only system doing the job!

  • And Vioxx was exposed and Merck had to pay damages. It took about six years between its approval and being withdrawn from the market. That’s because it was proven to be dangerous and was widely exposed in the media. Attempts to cover it up by Merck, a giant mega-corporation with billions in revenue and worldwide reach, still failed. It showed how faulty medical products like this do not last. This has not happened with vaccines because vaccines are safe. A massive worldwide cover-up regarding vaccine safety does not exist, and the Vioxx affair demonstrates why.

  • Mary

    You are WRONG and are RIGHT… BOTH are enjoyed BY PHARMA!! LOL They have BOTH ends of the sticks. Why stop at sick care… why not CREATE PERPETUAL illness. When you treat to heal – you stop treating. Nothing better than vaccines to create more disease and earn their profits as well!

  • Mary

    It is NOT “anti-vax” info. And if you researched you would CLEARLY see that. It is EX-MAXED-VAXED, VAX-EXPERIENCE, VAX-EDUCATION, VAX-WISDOM…. OBVIOUSLY you have not done your scientific research.

  • Mary

    Oh what a childish reply …er.. Hairy er… eyed….

  • Mary

    LOL Astreja….. Tsk tsk…misinformation…. you just gave away your “signal-to-noise-ratio” . Have you not heard? …There have NEVER been “double-blind medical vaccine studies” done on vaccine safety. Congress said so in July 2018. And you forgot “placebo.” INERT placebo. which they have not done either. Their excuse is that it is unethical. Yet it is not unethical to inject 72 not safety tested vaccines to millions of children monthly. THAT is how much you have “accurate” info!!!!

  • Mary

    And that is not counting all the after effects and post market effects for years thereafter – which they never document nor investigate!!

  • Mary

    Why don’t you research that yourself?? You will find much much much much more than this.

  • Mary

    Correlation is the very necessary ingredient to scientific INQUIRY. Without correlation there is no observation to proceed with any inquiry..

  • Mary

    Ha… just like many “outbreaks” where the vaccinated are the outbreakers.

  • Mary

    Sure you are.

  • Mary

    So why the boosters?? Where no boosters were ever given previously, yet the CDC talk about diseases having been “eradicated ” because of those and no boosters. Lol

  • Mary

    So it’s OK for vaccines to put people’s lives in danger. READ the FDA INSERTS and Vaccine Compensations. Do you hear yourself??

  • Mary

    Yup… like “extremely rare” that 1 in 6 children have a neurological or learning issue. And children are developing diabetes where none were in the past… and cancers… …. Drugs cause what they say they cause and much more that never gets documented or pulled off the shelf until thousands die. and many more disabled… or are you going to cherry pick the evidence you say you depend on?

  • sabelmouse

    thank you for doing this!

  • sabelmouse

    that makes no sense!

  • Mary

    ….”projection”…. “straw”…. “snowflake”…. nahhh…. no troll or narcissist here… another “projection”

  • Mary

    Knotbrain…. I N J U R E D people are sick and OFTEN STAY SICK ….AND DIE

  • Mary

    Tell that to the Vaccine Compensation Master for the SIDS case they evidenced as due to vaccine injury.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Yes, you are.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It makes perfect sense if you have the slightest idea how epidemiology works.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The FDA inserts on vaccines is identical to the inserts on literally every other FDA-approved medication. Get back to me when you stop taking over the counter medicine.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Vaccines prevent disease by stimulating the bodies immune system to produce specialized antibodies without forcing it to go through the dangers of the disease itself. A person who can’t catch the disease is a person who can’t spread the disease.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    If the whooping cough vaccine had been released twenty-thirty years earlier, my grandfather wouldn’t have had to watch two of his brothers die. If the polio vaccine had been released only a year later, I might not be here.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You mean none of them?

  • Mary

    And also…. if it has no way of being legitimate, then even more so the expected caution and further inquiry, because it is all unknown territory and even then more important to question and re-evaluate – which is NOT being done. We have thousands of witnesses witnessing their children being injured after a vaccine ,yet we are not being heard. Our reports not documented… our children not examined and symptoms not investigated. Vaccines not investigated. Studies not performed. WE are the first responders to our children. If were were not, there’d be more morticians than pediatricians.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Why would I lie about my condition? I suspect you think that only because it’s something you would do.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    But it is not causation.

  • sabelmouse

    no it doesn’t.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only confusion here is from anti-vax predators like you.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I think your tinfoil hat is on too tight.

  • Mary

    And talking about DNA… have you learned that human cells/DNA in humans (such as Aborted Human Diploid Cells used in vaccines) cause DNA damage, DNA mutations, and cancer in the hosts? … that autistic children have been found with hundreds of DNA mutations NOT found to be inherited by either of their parents? See Geneticist Dr Theresa Deisher’s research, SoundChoice site. And that CDC ex chief Dr Gerberding admittted on National TV that if a child has already a mitochondria mutation that vaccines can then cause them autism? …yet infants are never tested for those? ….. that children from in-vitro-fertilization are more prone for risk of autism?…..

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Wow, so you want to intentionally expose people to potentially fatal illnesses just so you can learn something that has already been established.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Because unlike you anti-vax predators, doctors understand that there is something seriously wrong with intentionally exposing children to diseases.

  • Mary

    And your religion science

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I’m autistic. Do you think I would be better off dead?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Yeah, not like our society has issues with pollution or unhealthy diets that cause diabetes or cancer. You predators just love to blame vaccines for everything.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The words of a person who has no knowledge of epidemiology.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Don’t use words when you don’t know what they mean.

  • Mary

    You mean Jenner? … and his “vaccine” which comes from the word for cow, which was about scraping a cow’s pus filled with cowpox disease, and then rubbing into the lanced (cut) flesh of a child, and then smallpox pus later, or smallpox pus from another human AS the vaccine. Absolutely NO double blind studies LOL or safety studies….. no purifying….. no sterilization….. no killing other cow diseases in the pus….. OH SO VERY scientific, don’t you think?? …. Jenner did not even know the virus which caused smallpox, for no strong enough microscope at the time….. then later the one they did claim was the virus turned out to be an influenza virus? .PURELY CORRELATION….his own son vaccinated became sickly the rest of his life and died, Jenner? … you mean the vaccine that caused the spread of syphilis and cholera, and diphtheria, and yellow fever thanks to Jenner? … which means that smallpox deaths are skewed for those facts? …. and that at the time they treated these diseases with deadly mercury in high gram doses accounting for more deaths?
    …. that they used mercury as VAPOR, affecting and lowering immunity of all house members? ….. that the only town who finally rebelled , Leicester, and refused to vaccinate was the only town with the least numbers of smallpox cases? … and that smallpox vaccine was banned? … then resuscitated for more damage? … that people and doctors protested smallpox vaccination for more than 100 years?…..

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Edward Jenner was working with a thirty percent chance of death vs a chance of less than one percent. He was able to reduce the danger of smallpox outbreaks by taking advantage of the close genetic relationship between cowpox and small pox which causes the immune system to react to both the same way despite one being far more dangerous than the other. It was so successful that Napoleon was releasing prisoners of war so they could get vaccinated. Now take your lies elsewhere.

  • Mary

    And how about the direct danger to the child being vaccinated with risk laden vaccines??? CLINICALLY PROVEN? You mean to say your child is so special and must survive at the cost of others by KNOWN RISKS? So other children must survive the Russian Roulette game so yours can have a better chance of non-contraction… when live vaccines are shedding the virus anyway and more likely to contract from them?? Every child is risking their lives with vaccination because NO one knows which child will get the vaccine effects.

  • Rich Brewer

    Big Daddy gummint forces your child to be injected with toxic heavy metals. Hail Hydra!

  • Mary

    Oh… you want us to hear and RELIGIOUSLY BELIEVE YOUR brother’s issues and feel compassionate for him…. yet you have no compassion for the abundance of people you call anti-vaxxers telling you of their EXPERIENCE with vaccines and you call them liars and stupid and uneducated and other names …. Lol and you want THEM to be compassionate with you??? Narcissist??

  • Rich Brewer

    Vaxxer fanatic: “My vaccinated son will get disease from your unvaccinated daughter!”

    Rational Freedom Lover: “Uh, aren’t vaccines supposed to protect your child against the unvaccinated?”

    Vaxxer fanatic: * head explodes *

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The risk of the vaccines is orders of magnitude lower than the risks of the diseases they prevent. I likely would not be here if my grandfather had been an anti-vaxer.

  • Rich Brewer

    Vaxxer fanatic: “My child went into convulsions 3 hours after the MMR shot. Damn Republicrats!”

  • Rich Brewer

    Amish have the lowest incidence of all diseases among groups.

    Also Amish: they do not vaccinate.

  • Mary

    You mean YOUR selfish delusions. My…. you’ve got big problems dear.. So where are you vacationing while you gaslight us here, troll?

  • Rich Brewer

    When freedom is so good, so tasty, it has to be forced on you.

    God bless our cruel overlords.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’re not telling your experience. You are telling lies debunked hundreds of times and looking for things that you can blame for vaccines. You are predators targeting vulnerable groups to spread your misinformation, and by doing so you have directly brought about the resurgence of diseases that were on the verge of extinction.

    By the way, you still haven’t answered if you think I would be better off dead than autistic.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No delusions. Just scientific facts and extensive family history.

  • Rich Brewer

    Sodium fluoride is known to punch holes in the blood-brain barrier aka Mylenin sheath which ordinarily halts toxic aluminum. Sodium fluoride is in all municipal drinking water, vast majority of processed foods and drinks.

    Postmortem cerebral biopsies of Alzheimer’s sufferers show heaviest prevalence of which heavy metal?

    (((Jeopardy theme music)))

    Aluminum

    “Gummint sed it muss be a coinky dink. I luv muh gummint.”

  • Rich Brewer

    Vaxxer fanatic: “Studeez ben dunn fer muh vaxeenz! Scientifical an all!”

    Rational Freedom Lover: “Do you have any idea who funded those studies?”

    Vaxxer fanatic: “No buddy cuz they’s free! TV sed so!”

  • Mary

    SKEPTICAL RAPTOR??? REally? You cant do your own research? That mad scientist madman paid by Pharma? The compensation program declines 50% of the cases, and the ones they accept are further declined or settled. AND MOST people do not know of the program to even apply. Were YOU aware of the program? Doctors dont know or tell their patients!. Did you know that glyphosate was found in EVERY vaccine by scientists? And that it was pronounced a carcinogen?. And recently af ew cases of cancer were won caused by glyphosate and many cases waiting?

  • Rich Brewer

    Who knew that being Amish is actually a superpower?

    They don’t vaccinate and rarely get sick.

    The Avengers don’t have squat on the Amish!

  • Rich Brewer

    Vaccination schedules highest in history in USA.

    Also USA: Highest number of neurological diseases ever recorded.

    Nothing to see here. Go back to bed America. Your loving, cuddly government has figured it out. Watch TV. Consume. Kardashians. Dancing with washed up celebrities. Game of Clowns. Sex, sex, sex. Oooh, look! Aliens!

    Freedom!

    Hail Satan!

  • Rich Brewer

    Vaxxer fanatic: “Muh gummint aint never poisoned sit uh sons!”

    Rational Freedom Lover: “Ever heard of the Tuskeegee experiments where the US gov’t gave black men syphilis?”

    Vaxxer fanatic: * watches G.O.T. *

  • Astreja

    No, the burden of proof rests with the person who makes the positive claim. I am under no obligation to go on a wild goose chase to try to duplicate someone else’s methodology — it rests with them to defend their thesis.

  • Astreja

    I invoke the Cheezburger Law and declare you the loser of the debate by your childish use of the phrase “LOL.” Grow T F up, O plague dog.

  • cecilia

    yes, “SKEPTICAL RAPTOR” – insert a thousand “!” to indicate a triggered anti-vaxxer

    One of the most respected and science accurate websites online. That link to that particular article gives a really excellent explanation of how the “vaccine court” operates. It’s no surprise the rabid anti-vaxxers hate it.

    I can’t wait to get my “shill-bucks”. So far nothing has arrived in the mail but who knows? If I’m lucky this mention my let me retire to Tahiti.

    (sarcasm alert)

  • sabelmouse

    how about you explain then 🙂

  • Mopsy Pontner

    I think some commenters here are just too young to remember the world as it was before herd immunity (through vaccination) reached the levels that affords them the complacency to hold silly views on vaccination. My mother spent three months in an isolation hospital as a child – because of diphtheria. My aunt contracted polio in the late 1950s – she had two young children – and spent the rest of her life in a wheelchair. As a small child, I got measles and chickenpox concurrently, and my mother says I nearly died. I wear my smallpox vaccination scar with pride – as a mark of how science eradicated a dreadful disease. My kids didn’t have to have that hefty injection -scar still visible 50 years later: it must have hurt- because my generation and those before mine valued the protection it gave.

  • Friend

    Fun fact: Many Amish and Mennonites do seek vaccinations when there is an outbreak of disease. They are not rigidly anti vaccines. Please don’t take my word for it. Google it and check local newspaper coverage.

  • Friend

    A friend of mine survived polio with substantial disabilities. Now, decades later, she has Post Polio Syndrome. It is slowly robbing her of what independence she had.

  • Friend

    Intriguingly enough, everybody has heard about the horrors of the Tuskegee experiments, so it’s not exactly a well-kept secret.

    Most of us also know the difference between the Tuskegee experiments and a well-baby visit.

  • Friend

    You’re way off topic. I learned all about the blood-brain barrier while faking the Apollo 11 landing, but thanks for sharing.

    P.S. You’re not typing in my accent.

  • krishnamurphy

    This group was a very valuable source of unredacted truths in most cases; discussing opinions and sharing experiences isn’t “misinformation” in the same sense that virtually all statements promoting vaccines in general certainly are. Vaccination is definitely in itself a religion, complete with the virtual “burning at the stake” of those found guilty of heretical refusal to mindlessly parrot pHARMa lies such “vaccines can create hard immunity (which is literally no immunity at all.)

    Anyone wishing to actually inform themselves about the truth regarding vaccine safety is referred to the 88-page debunking of the the existing “scientific literature” relied on and cited by the CDC in claiming that vaccine safety has been assured by research, published on the ICAN (Informed Consent Action Network) website at icandecide.org (which remains unrefuted by anyone!)

  • Wayne Duncan

    Lies, lies, lies. I specifically acknowledged vaccination’s role in eliminating smallpox, but to recognize that would upset you fantasy. Apparently you did not even notice my reference to Dr John Snow and his work in controlling cholera. Improved sanitation and living conditions were instrumental in reducing and nearly eliminating typhus and typhoid which are now seeking to make a comeback in Lost Angeles and San Fransh!thole.

    I don’t recognize how much more money Pharma could make? That was the entire point of the 1986 BigPharma Free Ride Act of 1986. After Merck killed over 100,000 with Vioxx before it was taken off the market, Gardasil became known as the Help Pay for Vioxx vaccine. Gardasil sales are approaching $1 billion annually but according to you Merck is doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.

    Wakefield neither fabricated research nor had a vaccine in development to replace MMR. His “sin” in your vaxbot religious view was to suggest parents spread out the vaccinations by getting measles, mumps, and rubella as separate jabs which was an option before the UK government withdrew the separate shots in an effort to compel compliance with MMR.

    Your vaxbot delusion is unhealthy. Go get some help. And sell your Merck stock.

  • Rich Brewer

    Even more fun fact: if they use vaccines, they’re not Amish. They’ve broken their covenant but this isn’t a discussion on religious breakaway groups. Amish shun modern technology.

  • jay

    The aliens passed over you because they didn’t want to hear you talk about vaccines 24/7.

  • Rich Brewer

    If vaccines work, you needn’t worry about the un-vaccinated. The shear fact you’re crying over this is proof you don’t trust your own stance.

  • Rich Brewer

    Wow, such cogent, relevant, well thought out retorts. I bet you were captain of your H.S. debate team.

  • Rich Brewer

    Fun fact: safe vaccines, like “tinfoil”…don’t exist. Thanks.

  • carlo151

    Big pharma does not make big profits from vaccines, the reimbursement rate is very low.

    In fact a few years back the US government had to beg some pharma companies to make a flu vaccine, agree to buy the unused vaccines. The previous year did not have a bad flu and they were stuck with the inventory.

    Doctors offices do not make money with it either, it needs refrigeration, and they also get stuck when it expires unused or the power goes out in their office from storms.

    Today your doctor will tell you to go to a pharmacy chain and get a shot.

    Anti vaccine people are badly informed primarily by the non scientific types or Russian trolls making it their mission to destroy the health of western democracy and create divides. Which they have done.

  • Astreja

    It’s no more than the pro-plague lobby deserves. 😀

  • cecilia
  • cecilia
  • Friend

    Thank you. You saved me the effort. Vaccines do not magically remove a person’s religion.

  • Friend

    Feeling compassion for the Amish today, as the anti-vaccine crowd (and fundagelical Christians) constantly use them as pawns, distorting information about Amish people and their lives. This link is not for the shrill anti-vaccine exiles who have swarmed to this comment thread. It is for people who are interested in health differences between the Amish and other Americans:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/why-are-anti-vaxxers-rallying-behind-the-amish/384151/

  • cecilia

    you are very welcome

  • Friend

    Your own description of medical science undermines your claims about the group. My whole family is up to date on vaccinations, for our own benefit and the benefit of others. To you this is evidence that I believe/spread lies. Dude/dudette, I have no desire to burn you at the stake or even call you a heretic.

  • Friend

    I started posting here because of stories of parents who medically abuse their children, denying them chemotherapy, doing Munchhausen by Proxy treatments, etc. So I’ve been here a little while, unlike many on this particular thread…

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Except that they do.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Shows how little you know. Some people can’t be vaccinated. Others have had their immune systems so badly damaged by illness that their vaccines were undone.

  • Friend

    And over time, X-ray technology has improved to reduce exposure. Chemo protocols have been refined and often reduced. Radiation therapy rooms are carefully designed, patients positioned precisely, using small tattoos to guide technicians. CAT scans, MRIs, PET scans, lymphoscintigraphy, fluoroscopy, on and on it goes. We have tons of great technology to diagnose and treat.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You didn’t acknowledge anything. You just parroted the same anti-vax lies that have been debunked hundreds of times.

    Your claim about “big pharma” makes no sense from a logical or a business standpoint. Treatment is far more expensive than prevention.

    Andrew Wakefield’s entire study was fraudulent. He examined twelve children and had the audacity to call that a sample size. Wakefield wanted to make his own measles-only vaccine, but their is no market for it because of the success of the MMR. His solution to that little conundrum was to fabricate a danger from the MMR out of wholecloth to create a market for his own vaccine.

    Your anti-vax delusions are unhealthy. Go get some help.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s really simple. Every person who has become immune to a pathogen is one less person who can pass that pathogen on to someone who is not immune. If enough people are made immune, then the pathogen has no way to find new hosts, and withers away.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Herd immunity is not a complicated idea, and was essential to the successful eradication of smallpox.

    Your claim about “big pharma” does not make any sense from a business standpoint. Treating an illness after the fact is far more expensive than preventing it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My family wasn’t allowed to forget. What happened to my paternal grandfather’s younger brothers in a whooping cough epidemic is one of those things that everyone grows up hearing about. My mother was also exposed to polio at a young age, but Grandpa wanted to make sure his children wouldn’t have to go through what his older brother did.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Strawman and non-sequitur.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I’m autistic. Do you think I would be better off dead?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You mean like Saint Wakefield’s study that fabricated a danger to the MMR because he wanted a market for his own measles-only vaccine?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Thank you for demonstrating how little you know about the actual subject. Come back when you read up about the valid medical reasons why certain people cannot be vaccinated or have weakened immune systems.

  • Rich Brewer

    Really? I’d love to see some of your paintings. So…prove it.

  • Rich Brewer

    Hahahahaha…ye of little knowledge. I didn’t make the argument up, because USA INC. is on record for poisoning its own people, so strawman claim fails massively; and it certainly DOES follow that ‘muricans could GAF about the Truth that is in plain site.

    I usually don’t correct children, but I made an exception here and you’re welcome.

  • Rich Brewer

    Good comedy. Prove it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It is a strawman. It has no resemblance to what the pro-science camp actually says.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You expect me to prove that some people have weak immune systems that puts them at risk if herd immunity drops too low?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s a simple yes or no question. Do you or do you not think that I would be better off dead?

  • Bonnie Rourke

    The measles vaccine is a live vaccine that sheds the vaccine strain virus in the recently vaccinated which can infect others, both vaccinated and unvaccinated. They can identify the strain causing the infection and it more often than not is vaccine strain. India is suing Bill Gates for the paralysis caused by the polio vaccine, I guess we will have to let the court decide that one.

  • Rich Brewer

    It’s a simple command. Prove it or get blocked as a troll.

  • Rich Brewer

    So that’s a NO. Typical. Thought so. Try not to chug any big pharma kack on your way out.

  • Rich Brewer

    Just because you parrot it endlessly with no evidence to show, doesn’t mean it’s reality. You’re a troll’s troll.

  • Rich Brewer

    Attempted (key word) obfuscation means nothing except that you’re skirting the idea. Typical troll-script.

  • Rich Brewer

    Bye bye.

  • Rich Brewer

    hahahahahahahahaha

  • Rich Brewer

    Admission you know nothing. Awesome. Thanks for coming out. Big pharma thanks you.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s a strawman because it bears no resemblance to what the scientifically literate actually have to say.

  • Rich Brewer

    Right. Because vulnerability to neurons from toxins has nothing to do with injecting toxins directly into the bloodstream.

    Question: did your parents have any children that lived? Asking for a friend.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only obfuscation here is yours. You have clearly demonstrated that you have no idea what being immunocompromised involves.

  • Rich Brewer

    CDC is government. Government injected syphilis into African Americans. Yeah, no connection at all. Shear genius.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    How exactly do you expect me to prove the well-known fact that some people’s immune systems have been weakened?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    How should I go about proving my condition? Sounds like you just want to dox me. Anti-vax predators are known to do that when confronted on their lies.

    Just answer a simple yes or no question. Do you think I would be better off dead?

  • Bonnie Rourke

    Small pox could not have been wiped out by vaccines because only 10% of the population was ever vaccinated. So Small Pox was eradicated in spite of 90% of anti-vaxxers. The polio virus was experienced as mild cold symptoms and only caused paralysis because of the DDT being sprayed. Funny how the vaccines are being credited for eradicating polio when it happened just as they banned DDT.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    If it weren’t for the vaccine, smallpox would still be killing thirty percent of the population every time there was an outbreak.

    Polio was causing paralysis because improvements in water sanitation stopped people from getting polio when it was the safest to do so; cases were instead occurring at more advanced ages when the risk of side effects was far greater. We have the polio vaccine to thank for our ability to enjoy clean water.

    By the way, I have a great uncle whose leg was paralyzed due to polio. He got it before DDT was in use.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Post-vaccine my grandparents saw six out of six of their children reach adulthood.

    Pre-vaccine, my great grandparents only saw three out of six reach adulthood.

  • Mike Stevens

    “The measles vaccine is a live vaccine that sheds the vaccine strain virus in the recently vaccinated which can infect others, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.“

    Shedding is minimal. Vaccine strain virus has been isolated once from a throat swab of a recently vaccinated child; the case was unusual, and the phenomenon is very rare.
    Since the virus is an attenuated genotype A strain, it cannot cause typical measles disease in anyone who might be exposed to it.
    The only consequence would be that the exposed individual will get a “booster” vaccination (if they were already vaccinated), or would get vaccinated (if they had never been vaccinated previously).

    Vaccine strain measles has never been documented to both pass to another person and result in natural measles. I tell you what; if you can find a published case report in the scientific literature of that ever happening I will give $1000 to a charity of your choice.
    Go for it…

  • SmilingChaos

    You must have been hit pretty hard in the head at some point in your life. It’s the only explanation for this level of lunacy.

  • SmilingChaos

    Vitamin C doesn’t prevent anything besides Scurvy.

  • SmilingChaos

    Sorry, no. Vaccine injury BELIEF is a result of ignorance and brainwashing.

  • krishnamurphy

    I meant no slight towards individuals – especially those who engage in civil discourse, such as you. People are clearly different, and the “haters” such as I described would not be engaging in anything like the fashion you have. I definitely erred in my heart-felt remarks, as they’re definitely condemnatory with a broad brush. I myself was only recently formally diagnosed with a vaccine injury and I beg pardon! I certainly hope you all remain well and don’t suffer any degenerative conditions that commonly ensue many years following vaccination, such as I did.

    I imagine (given your description) that you are all genetically blessed to have no inherent susceptibility to a vaccine injury, such as the MTHFR variants that limit (sometimes drastically!) the ability of such people to “handle” a toxic pharmaceutical preparation like a vaccine. There are also temporary states of debilitation, like having a respiratory infection (which may not be at all apparent) that, while in and of itself is generally not dangerous, were a vaccine to be administered at that point could easily lead to great harm.

    The star product in that line, inthe news lately, is the MMR vaccine, and it was only very recently that we got access to the original safety trials, which produced a FIFTY PERCENT injury rate! Some of the injuries caused symptomatic expression for the ENTIRE duration of the 42 days (only!) of the trials, which had only a few hundred children in the age range who generally receive that vaccine. Inadequate and highly problematic! See the YT channel for “The High Wire.”

    I must also share this, as you have clearly NOT read the recent publications of Dr. Peter Aaby, a Dutch scientist of great renown. He for 40 years traveled annually to Africa to conduct vaccination campaigns, most notably in Guineau-Bissau. I will link below to his presentation of this seminal work at a major scientific conference, which also includes links to the publication itself. Essentially, the crucial observation came from an accident of unequal distribution/access that led to a perfect “natural experiment,” vaccinated vs. unvaccinated – with the unvaccinated having greater SURVIVAL, while the vaccinated had greater “immunity” (antibodies only) to the targeted infections. I believe you will find it edifying! https://childrenshealthdefense.org/video/video-playlist/most-of-you-think-we-know-what-our-vaccines-are-doing-we-dont/

  • Brian

    How hilarious! The science illiterate Del Bigtree has duped you as well.

    His anti-vaccine propaganda has been refuted as long as it’s existed. Don’t believe me? Then lets make a deal. I’ll give you $1000 in cash, if you agree to give me $50 for each false claim made in his 88 page report that I can show has already been refuted.

    And herd immunity is just as real as gravity. It’s regularly observed and measured.

  • Brian

    Ironically, anti-vaxxers keep asking for another study that would be like the Tuskegee syphilis scandal.

  • krishnamurphy

    “Herd immunity” actually applies ONLY to the naturally infected – vaccination cannot EVER hope to produce that and in fact INCREASES the likelihood of exposure to casual contacts. This, BTW is the view of all reputable scientists, not a fringe group.

    Regarding Del Bigtree, he’s quite a bit more science-literate than you are. Show your refutation publicly – no one else has been able to “say boo!”

  • Brian

    The claim that “Herd immunity actually applies ONLY to the naturally infected” Is verifiably false. We know that vaccines can provide herd immunity just like we know planes can fly and the earth is round.

    Del Bigtree is an anti-vaccine crackpot, who targets the gullible and ignorant with his misinformation. He has been refuted by not only the world’s experts, but also by anyone willing to do a little fact checking.

    Want to see my public refutation? Agree to the deal. If Bigtree is being honest, then you’ll be $1000 richer and have nothing to worry about.

  • Friend

    And yet the selfsame Dr. Aaby is cited and quoted as supporting vaccines:

    He fears what may happen when global vaccination against eradicated diseases stops, as was the case when smallpox had been eradicated.

    “Polio may be eradicated already this year and measles within the next 10 years. If we stop vaccination, it may have very negative effects on morbidity in low-income countries.”

    https://vibekequaade.com/2018/04/03/the-controversial-scientist-dr-peter-aaby/

  • krishnamurphy

    Actually, NO! The only reason that particular disease could be eradicated was that there is no animal reservoir for the pathogen, such as exists for e.g. influenza. Herd immunity, meaning vaccine-induced, played no role whatsoever in the process.

    Regarding the “expense” – I agree! pHARMA just loves it being larger, because all that is what is enriching them. There’s literally no motivation for them to work to minimize it!

  • krishnamurphy

    Untrue. The body responds ENTIRELY differently to a vaccine than to an infection- and the need for “booster doses” on all vaccines is ample evidence that true immunity isn’t gained by vaccination, and vice-versa. I will not engage with your childish “bet” regardless of your inflammatory shaming – if you really believe in your stated position regarding refutation, pull on your big boy pants and trot it out like a real contributor to the scientific discussion.

  • Friend

    I’ll just copy this here to support you… it’s also below in original context.

    And yet the selfsame Dr. Aaby is cited and quoted as supporting vaccines:

    He fears what may happen when global vaccination against eradicated diseases stops, as was the case when smallpox had been eradicated.

    “Polio may be eradicated already this year and measles within the next 10 years. If we stop vaccination, it may have very negative effects on morbidity in low-income countries.”

    https://vibekequaade.com/2018/04/03/the-controversial-scientist-dr-peter-aaby/

  • Alexandra Dinu Felings

    We never needed Larry Cook to convince
    us of vaccines being unsafe. We have witnessed it first hand through our children’s poor health, autoimmune diseases and sadly even death for some families.

    PS Larry Cook ~ we do however love & appreciate your pioneering on health matters. ♥️ You are our hero & true leader for standing up for all this immorality regarding vaccines.

  • Brian

    Nope. You’re still lying.

    I’ve proven Bigtree a liar several times already. If you put your money where your mouth is, I’d be happy to give you a few examples.

  • Brian

    Your defense of scam artists and swindlers is very appreciated by scam artists and swindlers.

    It doesn’t change the fact that they’re lying to you.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The disease targets humans. The only way to wipe out a disease adapted to humans is to make as many humans immune to it as possible. Thus herd immunity.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And my family witnessed the necessity of vaccines when my paternal grandfather lost two brothers to a whooping cough epidemic back to back, my paternal grandmother lost a sister to measles complications, when my maternal grandfather had to take over as the oldest son because his older brother had a bad leg due to polio, when my maternal grandmother and her siblings had to be quarantined multiple times, when my mother avoided getting polio only because Grandpa jumped at the opportunity to protect his children from going through what their uncle did, and when my brother suffered a bout of viral meningitis that wrecked his immune system.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The body produces the same antibodies regardless of whether the pathogen was introduced by vaccine or by illness. That is the absolute most basic aspect of how vaccines work.

  • ladykatie25

    Sharing the deaths of your children after their vaccines is dangerous to the evil doers.

  • Charlie

    It was. The marketing choice was made to promote the profitable (ineffective) vaccine over the inexpensive effective cure. Very interesting talk on the science & history of it — https://youtu.be/W5Bgdqsorg0

    No virus, including Ebola, has ever been known to survive high dose vitamin C. I recently cured my own Shingles with it.

  • Charlie

    Here ya go: http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/index.shtml

    Every peer reviewed study discussed in this talk is found in the above link.

    https://youtu.be/W5Bgdqsorg0

  • Brian

    Exploiting the deaths of children as anti-vaccine propaganda? That’s not cool.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Actually, Rich, the FeralGov, evil as it can be, did not give syphilis to black men. They just let black men who had syphilis go untreated to see what happened. I know it’s a distinction without a real difference.

  • Astreja

    Epic fail! That site is run by a naturopathic organization.. Rejected as insufficiently rigorous and with a clear bias towards alternative medicine.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Who is paying you to spread these lies?

  • sabelmouse

    snort.
    but also ; how does this explain autism not being caused by vaccines?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I’m autistic. Do you think that I would be better off dead from an easily preventable disease?

  • sabelmouse

    that doesn’t explain why autism is genetic 🙁
    why would you be dead just because an illness might be preventable by vaccines?
    being preventable doesn’t make it deadly.
    are you trying to prove that people with autism can’t/don’t logic?

  • d’Monique

    Too young or too ignorant. They don’t believe these diseases are dangerous because “everybody used to have them” and “nobody died” when they were children. Well, let’s ignore the fact that parents didn’t tell their kids everytime someone in the world died or got permanent damaged due to diseases we nowadays have vaccines for.

  • d’Monique

    There’s a study based on anti-vaxx funding that proved you wrong. But anti-vaxxers never like to talk about that. How come?

  • d’Monique
  • d’Monique

    Nobody is forcing your kid to be injected with toxic heavy metal. Get real.

  • d’Monique

    Big Pharma is attacking all doctors, scientists, nurses, jouranlists, parents who are exposing the dangers of vaccines- pure and simple..

    Do you have proof of that claim or are you just paranoid? “Big Pharma” (whatever that is) doesn’t need to spend money on anti-vaxxers since anti-vaxxers do them a favour by not vaccinating and spreading diseases. Treatment cost more than cures.

    OF the thousands reported, only a tiny few are compensated

    Every court system requires proof of claim. Law school 1.1 Can’t prove you got injured by a vaccine? Don’t get compensated. Simple as that.

    According to the CDC, in 2016 alone, VAERS received 59,117 vaccine adverse event reports. Among those reports were 432 deaths, 1,091 permanent disabilities, 4,132 hospitalizations, and 10,274 emergency room visits.

    And how many of them were car accidents, drowning, shootings, suffocation, knife stabbing, turning into the Hulk and other things that have no connection to vaccines?
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ab414c42a7c5065b65f35522626e0c16d10db8baaae9733e78b52b1887408a54.jpg

  • d’Monique

    Oh, so that explains all the spam from anti-vaxxers. But who’s paying them? Big Supplement? Big Essential Oils? Big Colloidal Silver?

  • Mike Stevens

    I’ll answer for her.
    A PubMed search would reveal hundreds of such studies.
    She cherrypicked one and claimed she couldn’t find any others, and then lied about what it found.

    …Antivax MO, direct from the Antivax Playbook, Chapter 2.

  • Mike Stevens

    There are numerous studies, but I can see why you cherrypicked this one, pretending it was the only one you could find (or maybe it was the only one you found and you are just a terrible researcher, rather than being a liar).

    It found a new live flu vaccine showed no benefits above placebo.

    But this is all rather odd…
    …According to Antivax folklore, all studies on vaccines are manipulated or faked to show vaccines work, right?
    …And all studies from funders like the Bill Gates Foundation are deliberately biased, right?
    …And journals like the Lancet are so reliant on Pharma money that they never publish articles showing that vaccines aren’t wonderful, right?
    ….So how is it that this article was ever published?

  • d’Monique

    Their excuse is that it is unethical.

    Of course it’s unethical. You want to inject some with saline solution and expose them to dangerous diseases.

    Yet it is not unethical to inject 72 not safety tested vaccines to millions of children monthly. THAT is how much you have “accurate” info!!!!</blockquote
    They are tested. It's impossible to miss. There is even a study funded by anti-vaxxers.
    And I see you believe in the anti-vaxx myth of "72 vaccines".

  • “THAT is how much you have “accurate” info!!!!”
    Oooooh, scary scary scary!!!! With four exclamation points to emphasize how scary you’re trying to make it sound! That’s because you’re lying through your teeth, as usual. 🙂 https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a86f0f95f26ac10b0afd5d8a04941f3b64ae990b4a99db4b29e50a0c6ad24c7c.jpg

  • S bean

    and yet polio was eradicated from India which is not known for it’s buckets of clean water.
    It was eradicated because of the VACCINE.

    period

  • “Do your research!” Nope, we haven’t heard that one 9,000 times before. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7a3c84910b5366a1204cf0961b0da3b4ef0ad2fda84f9f782523380b95e9f880.jpg

  • S bean

    my wife’s aunt who was born in 1916 got polio and it wasn’t nothing. The family wasn’t poor. Or dirty. Just stop the lies

  • Wayne Duncan

    Redefined. Not eradicated.

  • FallsAngel

    Are you the poster formerly known as “GraceDS”?

  • Jen

    “I believe in free speech as long as it doesn’t go against what I believe.”

    Hello, fascist America.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Back in the days of no chlorinated water and dumping your chamber pots in the street. Also poor nutrition.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Look at the CDC website if you think I’m wrong. I’m not, cause that’s one of my sources. Vaxbots lie so often and so glibly they assume other people do so as well.

  • Wayne Duncan

    And highest infant mortality in the developed world.

  • Rich Brewer

    Hahahahahaha…I wrote Amish, not Catholic. Thanks for divulging your ignorance. Bye

  • Rich Brewer

    Nah, schools are just injecting kids without parental approval, because: freedumb.

  • Rich Brewer

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

  • Brian

    What if that “free speech” causes the unnecessary death and suffering of innocent children?

  • Brian

    …which has been steadily decreasing, even as more vaccines have been added to the childhood schedule, the same as other countries with lower infant mortality.

  • cecilia

    thanks for proving you didn’t bother reading the article that I linked to.

  • FallsAngel

    You have no understanding of how the immune system works to make a post like that.

  • FallsAngel

    That is a total misinterpretation of the baboon study. It’s not even known if the results apply to humans.

  • FallsAngel

    Where is your research published?

  • cecilia

    The US has horrible statistics related to health care because the US doesn’t have Universal Health Care like every other civilized country.

    It’s not that poor people don’t care about health it’s that poverty makes one paralyzed with terror at getting a bill they can’t pay.

  • FallsAngel

    There is no evidence that the nasal flu vaccine spread influenza. It just didn’t work that well, so lots of recipients got flu.

    I’ve heard these nutty flu stories many times over. As a flu shot provider, I’ve heard this one a lot too: “I never got a flu shot, until I got the real flu. It was horrible. Now I never skip it.”

  • FallsAngel
  • FallsAngel
  • FallsAngel

    You just admitted you don’t know anything about chemistry, yet you say multiple shots is a sign of a bad vaccine. Please tell us about this.

  • FallsAngel

    “Few people died of polio before the vaccines.”

    Yeah, dipstick, who cares about them? But let’s get all whipped up about a few non-verifiable deaths due to vaccines.

  • cecilia

    science is the very antithesis of religion.

    science requires evidence and facts

    religion just needs faith – much like the pro-plague anti-vaxxer religion we observe here

  • cecilia

    you are “free” to not get vaccinated. You are certainly “free” to be as uneducated as you wish.
    What you aren’t free to do is endanger other innocent immunocompromised people with your ignorance.

    if you have children and refuse to have them vaccinated DO NOT send them to public school. Keep them home and away from other children.

    I would suggest that you and the rest of your anti-vaxxer cult all move to an island and stay there. You’ll never have to be vaccinated for anything. You can stay and never endanger the rest of society.

    It’s a win-win for everyone.

    of course, if one of your anti-vaxxer cult happens to get a disease and moves in with your guys a bunch of you may get infected. But, hey! Isn’t that the “experiment” you all want? Good luck with your vit C.

  • FallsAngel
  • cecilia

    NO one knows which child will get the vaccine effects.

    Well, not quite:
    Most Kids With Vaccine Injury Were Already Sick

    What a responsible parent SHOULD do is consult with a REAL (not fake) doctor about pre-existing conditions and really understand your child’s health. Asking ignorant people online isn’t a good idea.

  • Crystal

    If a child is vaccinated, how is it dangerous for them to be around unvaccinated children?

  • Crystal

    Also, again, I am not a gung ho activist for or against vaccinations. I am FOR freedom of choice… that means to vaccinate or not. There are many anti vaxers who are against anyone getting vaccinated. I do not fall in that category.

    If people’s immune system is compromised, it is their responsibility to take care of themselves properly, not everyone else’s job.

    However, I also feel that schools should be able to decide if they want to allow unvaccinated children into their school or not… that should be the school’s free choice as well. This way too, parents of immune compromised children can make informed and healthy decisions about what is right for their child and help protect them.

    Again, I’m not an anti vaxer. I believe in preserving freedom of choice… that goes for pro vaxers too. You guys who want to vaccinate absolutely have a right to do so AND, people have a right to know where the schools their children are going to stand on the matter. It’s only fair to have dual consideration. Everyone’s freedoms here matter. People have a right to choose what they feel is best for their life and their body. Anti vaxers have no right to tell you guys you can’t any more than pro vaxers have a right to tell others they have to.

    This isn’t a vaccination issue for me… it’s preserving the natural rights for everyone to body autonomy and freedom of choice.

  • Mike Stevens

    Where do you see the word “Catholic” mentioned in this report?
    …idi0t.
    “In January 2007, the researchers distributed questionnaires to 1,000 Amish parents in Holmes County. Among 359 respondents, most (68%) stated that all of their children had received at least one vaccine, and 14% of those surveyed said their children had received no vaccines.”

  • cecilia

    that’s NOT how science works.
    A polio virus has a very specific genetic marker. You can’t treat a disease if you are sloppy about figuring out WHAT it is.

    “redefined” is what sloppy anti-vaxxers do because they love lies.

  • Rich Brewer

    False analogy. Typical of vaxxer fanatics. Keep taking your shots to “protect” you from the rest of us who are healthy without vaccines…unless of course you don’t trust the vaccines and in that case…get 3 or 5 or 20…just to be on the “safe” side. wink emoji

  • Rich Brewer

    Statements without evidence are called HEARSAY and can never be taken seriously, just like vaxxer fanatics.

  • cecilia

    that’s why people who respect science post evidence and anti-vaxxer just spout BS.

  • Brian

    “Statements without evidence are called HEARSAY and can never be taken seriously”
    …like 99.9% of “vaccine injuries”.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Facebook is a private platform. Free speech is not at issue.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And innocent adults who have been immunocompromised.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    What is the rate that the measles vaccine sheds, and how does that compare to the rate that the measles sheds?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And no whooping cough vaccine.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Answer the question. Do you think I would be better off dead?

  • Liar.

  • FallsAngel

    Actually, you have to educate your kids, at least for 8 years (in most states).

  • Yes, that’s what as known as a hospital protecting itself from legal liability. It’s there to ensure people don’t file worthless lawsuits. Unfortunately, that’s far more likely to happen than someone accomplishing the nearly impossible and being infected by almost non-existent vaccine shedding.

  • FallsAngel

    Fun fact: Most Mennonites practice mainstream medicine. I have worked with Mennonite nurses at mainstream hospitals.

    https://canadianmennonite.org/blogs/susie-guenther-loewen/mennonites-medicine-and-body-0

  • cecilia

    well, technically, yes, they are “responsible” for that child’s education. But, considering how little they understand rational thinking or respect science, I doubt they will be very successful at it.

  • FallsAngel

    My husband had a cousin who died of polio.

  • FallsAngel

    What’s going on here, Without a Crystal Ball? Why are so many of my posts being held up in moderation? None of them say anything controversial.

  • Wayne Duncan

    When, exactly?

  • FallsAngel

    We’re talking about an oncology floor with very immunocompromised patients. When my husband was a patient there, some visitor who thought their cough wasn’t contagious spread parainfluenza
    all over the floor. I got it, and had to stay home until it was over.

    People will do inappropriate things.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    1925.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Vaccines are not preventing anything.”
    Thanks for this ^, Mary.
    As an example of how justifiable it is to shut down these groups disseminating lies about vaccine you could hardly have provided a better one.

  • Mike Stevens
  • Mike Stevens

    Thanks for demonstrating:
    1. How crazed the antivaxers are, and why these deranged groups on Facebook and elsewhere need shutting down, and
    2. Your 18th century understanding of medicine.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Look at the CDC website if you think I’m wrong.”
    I did.
    They confirm you are talking out your rear end.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Wakefield neither fabricated research nor had a vaccine in development to replace MMR.”

    Tell that to the British Medical Journal, who confirmed and documented his scientific fraud, or to Wakefield himself, who had patented a replacement vaccine for MMR that he forecast would make him over £30 million a year.

  • Mike Stevens

    And pray tell us how chlorinated water and sewage disposal prevents measles, diphtheria, influenza, pneumonia, pertussis, chickenpox, meningococcal infection, rubella, mumps, tetanus, Hepatitis B (seeing as how they are spread through different routes of transmission such as inhalation)?

  • Friend

    Yes, thanks. And, to pivot back to the Amish and expand beyond vaccinations, they choose from an array of approaches to disease, including modern clinical medicine. Here’s a story about a young Amish mother who had surgery and radiation for cancer:

    https://www.cancertodaymag.org/Pages/Summer2019/Cancer-and-the-Amish.aspx

  • Mike Stevens

    “Few people died of polio before the vaccines.”
    That’s another lie from you.
    Prevaccine in the United States, over 3000 deaths from polio were documented each year on average.
    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/209448
    I guess a pro-disease antivaxer would call that a “few”, but then they really stink at math (along with logic, reason, and science)

  • Mike Stevens

    “ALL epidemics died down and disappeared before vaccines were used.”
    I guess that explains charts like this:
    (Clue: the arrow shows when the vaccine was introduced) https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9aae8f5dc046bbd37a4c4e09f5f5823451efe9217246affb755a8449d3cc0924.jpg

  • Mike Stevens

    Well I wouldn’t look to bouncedancer for information… she just parrots antivaxer propaganda tropes.
    Try the WHO or CDC for data on diseases and vaccines, and ECDC in Europe.

  • Mike Stevens

    I never saw him claim that.
    But if you are honest and acknowledge that numbers are important, then you’d accept that 1000 deaths from a disease have greater significance and importance than one death from a vaccine.

  • Mike Stevens

    The elimination of measles in the US was a demonstration as to how effective vaccine induced herd immunity can be (with similar scenarios in virtually all developed countries).
    And antivaxers have helped prove that herd immunity worked… by destroying it in communities where vax rates for measles dropped so low that endemic measles has re-emerged in those communities.

  • Mike Stevens

    “He’s five and hasn’t spoken since his MMR shot at 15 months. I’m sure you’ll deny there was any relationship.”
    Well, do you have any evidence that the relationship was causal, rather than coincidence?
    My daughter took her first steps later on the same day she received her MMR shot. Should I put that down to coincidence, or should I attribute some sinister “relationship” between these events?

  • Mike Stevens

    “Nobody died [of measles] or even was hospitalized (oh believe me, we would have heard about it).”

    Strange.
    In the US prevaccine, 450-500 measles deaths were reported each year.
    From 1987-2000, there were over 67,000 measles cases of whom 177 died (0.3%), and nearly 13,000 were hospitalised (20%).
    https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/Supplement_1/S4/823958

  • Mike Stevens

    Since 2000, there have been 3 acute measles deaths (and around 3 dozen deaths from measles SSPE, a late complication that takes 10-20 years to emerge).
    And the reason there are so few acute measles deaths this century?……because thanks to vaccines, measles was eliminated in 2000.
    Now, thanks to you deranged antivaxers, it has come back.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It’s not false at all. The studies that anti-vax predators insist need to be done for vaccines would necessitate intentionally exposing children to potentially fatal diseases.

    And once again, the purpose of vaccinating everyone who can be is to protect those who cannot.

  • Mike Stevens

    The same way it explains homicides not being caused by vaccines.

  • Rann

    What science…. everyone of your comments are science free. You haven’t a clue how to do science.

  • Brian

    You kind of outed yourself as an anti-vaxxer by repeating the anti-vaccine talking point (PRATT) in your previous comment.

  • Crystal

    Let me be clear. I personally don’t vaccinate for my own reasons. That in no way makes me anti vax. I don’t go to church either but I’m not anti Christian.Just because someone doesn’t participate in your crusade doesn’t mean they participate on the opposing team. I have my personal beliefs… and those have to stay separate from my stances politically. Why? Because the right of freedom of choice is bigger than me. It’s all of us. And I can’t support ANY law that intends to take ANYONE’S freedoms away.

    If this were reversed and let’s say I personally did not vaccinate and there was a law out there attempting to outlaw vaccinations… I would need to stand on the side that didn’t support that either because everyone should have the right to their freedom. Everyone should have body autonomy.

  • Alexander Porter

    I won’t pretend to know the truth of anything you type, except for based on your statement, she either walked really late or was given the jab way ahead of schedule…? What is undeniable is the fact that vaccines have injured and maimed millions of people over the last 100 years.

  • Alexander Porter

    You have literally no idea what you’re talking about. When measles was declared ‘eliminated’ in the US in 2000, there was still 86 reported cases. Do you have the slightest clue how many strains of wild measles exist and which strain the jab is supposed to protect against, and to what efficacy, and for how long? Show us the data, and spare us the playground slurs. Not holding my breath.

  • Alexander Porter

    Based on what data??? This thread is so uninformed and ignorant, my IQ is dropping just reading it.

  • Alexander Porter

    Denying vaccine injury exists self immolates any hope you had have being taken seriously. Read the inserts… look for adverse effects in this literature. They all contain it. I know, thinking for yourself is hard. Give it a try: https://www.procon.org/sourcefiles/DTaP_Tripedia.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0UJ6fpxGEynCZWdMDbzRdex3tEuzWhxqQQVOrI2-8yVwbDE3x3ASXACuo

  • Mike Stevens

    “This thread is so uninformed and ignorant, my IQ is dropping just reading it.”
    Then do us and yourself a favour and stop commenting. That way the average IQ the remaining contributors will go up significantly.
    Go post over at Larry’s new antivax propaganda site.. maybe you’ll drag their average IQ up into double figures, but I have my doubts.

  • Mike Stevens

    She got her MMR at 12 months.

  • Mike Stevens

    I suggest you look up the epidemiological definition of “eliminated”.
    Hint… it doesn’t mean no cases at all.

    As to measles vaccine… it consists of Genotype A. This provides protection against all genotypes of the virus (the wild types go from B onwards).
    It’s 97-98% effective with 2 shots, and duration of protection is estimated to be lifelong in vaccine responders. Those who had primary vaccine failure remain vulnerable.

    There.. aren’t you glad you learned some new facts today?

  • Mike Stevens

    Why are you pointing at mortality as the metric for vaccine effectiveness?
    The parameter you need to look at for that is the incidence.

    If someone developed a vaccine that prevented the common cold, how do you suggest people assess its worth?
    By counting the number of cases of the “common cold”, or the number who died from it?

    Mortality is dependent on many factors, like medical care. Obviously preventing the disease contributes, you can’t die of diseases you never get in the first place. That’s why vaccination has had such a global impact in developing countries which still have malnutrition and poor medical facilities, but which have effective vaccination programs.

  • sabelmouse

    i don’t know enough about your life!
    the real question is why you think you would be. you must be ill informed.

  • Mike Stevens
  • Mike Stevens

    “The manufacturer of the smallpox vaccine, Dr. Jenner, said it (eradication of smallpox) couldn’t be the vaccine, since it only reached 10% of the world’s population.”

    I know Jenner was an amazing guy, but I don’t think his near-200 year old corpse was discussing the eradication of smallpox in the 1980s, somehow.

  • Mike Stevens

    “…blast their babies with toxic metals and contaminated DNA.”
    You really do know diddly squat about vaccine science, don’t you?

  • Mike Stevens

    I thank him for doing it also.
    I like it when deranged antivaxers post propaganda that even a 5 year old can see is total bs.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Your entire argument rest on the idea that autism is worse than a potentially fatal disease. So tell me to my face whether or not you think I would be better off dead than autistic.

  • sabelmouse

    no it doesn’t.
    meanwhile you still have NOT explained your argument.
    just fyi. thanks to vaccines i’ve been chronically ill for most of my life. and on top of being on the spectrum i have ocd, general anxiety, ptsd, depression with suicidal ideation.
    some of this from trauma/abuse.
    i often would rather be dead though that’s neiher here nor there.
    please explain your ”epidemiology” comment above.
    you still haven’t.

  • Clancy

    A few weeks ago, Patheos implemented a restricted word filter that contains many normal words. Comments that contain those words automatically go into moderation and have to be manually approved. It’s nothing Katie Joy has done, and so far as I know, she is the only moderator for this blog, so please be patient.

  • sabelmouse

    well, here we are, the silliest thing i’ve read today!

  • FallsAngel

    Thanks.

  • Collectivist

    Jesus!

  • sabelmouse

    totally forgot the fibromyalgia.

  • Collectivist

    So . . .these multiple cyber spacial conversations are therapeutic. . . .?

  • sabelmouse

    can be

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Yes it does. If you want your children to be exposed to potentially deadly diseases so they won’t be autistic, then that means that you think autism is worse than death. So answer the question. Do you think I would be better off dead?

  • sabelmouse

    just as well i saved my reply to tumblr, afore it gets deleted;)

  • Brian

    You’re antivaccine because you spread false and misleading information to vilify vaccination.

  • larrymotuz

    I tend to agree.

    Yet Facebook’s lack of an appeal system means that any mistakes made can never be recognized as mistakes on their part.

    If Facebook never made mistakes –I.e., We’re perfect all of the time, and who are you to question us? seems to be their attitude— this would not be a problem. But, they are not perfect, and bringing in a sensible and transparent appeal system –even one capable of challenging and changing their ‘rules’–is long overdue.

  • larrymotuz

    There is sound science behind it. You just haven’t looked for it, or you’ve looked in the wrong places.

  • larrymotuz

    Vaccines do protect you from what you are vaccinated against. Vaccines help prevent diseases.

    There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that vaccines help spread the diseases they are designed to protect people from. ‘Herd immunity’ due to vaccines is well-established. That’s important due to the reality that some people cannot be vaccinated due to other reasonably grounded, health concerns, usually related to being immuno-compromised or to serious, life threatening allergies.

  • larrymotuz

    Good point. The degree to which people are immuno-compromised clearly matters here.

  • larrymotuz

    What brought about the sharp declines in communicable diseases, however, and in health-life expectancy associated with the eradication of diseases, was vaccines.

    Health-life expectancy should not be confused with life expectancy.

  • FallsAngel

    I’m pointing out that those are the only vaccines the oncologists are concerned about “shedding”. I don’t think the live zoster vaccine is given much any more; they need to update.

  • FallsAngel

    The school budget in California just jumped by 20%, shortly after mandating vaccines.

    You don’t say. I don’t know exactly when California passed vaccine mandates, but By the 1980–1981 school year, all 50 states had laws covering students first entering school. You think this happened for the first time in 2015? Anyway, correlation does not equal causation.

  • Cia

    You’ve got to differentiate and consider what the situation is or would be like now. I agree that diphtheria was a horrible disease in the early twentieth century, and the vaccine was probably a good idea to get on the whole, although many individuals were disabled or even killed by the vaccine. My mother remembered a neighbor boy in the ’30s who died horribly of diphtheria. Polio was also horrible for the tiny percentage of the whole who was crippled by it. But pertussis and measles both became much milder than they had been through natural attenuation, as well as better nutrition and living conditions for the majority, so that after 1945, both became routine childhood diseases which very rarely killed or disabled. Sweden didn’t give the pertussis vaccine between 1979 and 1997, because the vaccine had killed so many babies, and while 60% of Swedish children got pertussis in those years, there was less than one death a year from pertussis. My thrice vaxxed baby got it at eight months old and gave it to me. It was very unpleasant and alarming, ten coughs per breath, but not dangerous, as, again, it very rarely is these days. Measles mortality was only one in 10,000 cases in the US in1960, and the disease greatly improved immune function, greatly reducing many diseases in later life, including cancer. I had measles at six and chickenpox at seven, as everyone I have ever known my age or older did. 99% of American children got measles before the vaccine, and that was a good thing, not a bad thing. Smallpox also became much milder in the US after the outbreak of 1897, after which it caused very few deaths and was often mistaken for chickenpox, while the vaccine caused many severe reactions, even death, in those to whom it was given.

    I’d say parents should seriously consider giving the DT series after two years old, the polio series only if polio comes back here, and the Hib and possibly Prevnar series only for small children in daycare. Those who are breastfed and cared for at home don’t need them, and they come with considerable risks.

  • 74tnagrl74
  • Cia

    No, that’s not it. The reason is that millions of us have reacted severely to vaccines. In my case, I reacted to a tetanus booster with having both arms paralyzed starting the same day (brachial plexus neuropathy), and was later diagnosed with MS, and had my left arm and leg paralyzed for a month in one attack. Although it’s the permanent severe insomnia, the dizziness, the nausea, and the fatigue that are the more serious problems. My daughter reacted to the hep-B vaccine at birth, given without permission, with screaming syndrome for four days and nights. At 18 months old, she was saying two words, uh for up at the playground and uff when she saw a dog. Both words were erased as soon as she got the DTaP booster, and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. At this time, with one in 36 American children being diagnosed with autism, this and other disablilities caused by vaccines (asthma, allergies, seizure disorders, ADHD, learning disorders) are much larger and life-damaging conditions than any of the VPDs are or would be even if no one vaxxed for any of them.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Yeah. Ask Heart of Atlanta Motel how that worked out for them. Or, to stick with tech companies, AT&T.

    FaceBorg (and Goolag and Tw@tter etc) have grown to the point where they are and should be considered and regulated as public utilities. Ask your local electric and/or gas company how it works when they try to deny service for anything other than nonpayment.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    People have the option to not use Facebook. Not a comparable situation.

  • shay simmons

    The nursing program at Illinois State University is formally named Mennonite College of Nursing. I think it was founded shortly after WWI.

  • shay simmons

    Perhaps he owns a Tardis.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    None of those things were caused by vaccines. Looks to me like you’re just looking for a scapegoat.

    Besides, being autistic is better than being dead from an easily preventable disease.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My grandfather lost two brothers to whooping cough, and my grandmother lost a sister to measles complications. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

  • FallsAngel

    Isn’t there a Mennonite Hospital in Bloomington?

  • Brian

    The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious vaccines don’t cause autism.

    Anti-vaxxers and pro-disease advocated just like to use it as a scapegoat.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    And they hate to be confronted with the true implication of the autism claim. Two separate people in this comment section alone accused me of lying about my condition so they wouldn’t have to answer if they thought I would be better off dead.

  • Brian

    You’re dealing with one of the more extreme anti-vaccine, pro-disease advocates out there. Check out some of Cia’s previous comments.

    “Keep reading back in my Disqus profile, over 10,000 comments, and you’ll see that in my first Disqus comments five years ago I was as strongly pro-beneficial disease and anti-vaccine as I am today. The formerly universal childhood diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox, and pertussis are actively beneficial for healthy, well-nourished children to go through naturally…”
    “They should deliberately give natural rubella to schoolgirls at the end of a school year”
    “You know that I favor deliberately giving measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox, maybe Hep-A, to schoolchildren, one at the end of each school year”
    “Vaccines DO cause autism, seizure disorders, and every kind of autoimmune disease”
    “childhood diseases like measles are actively very beneficial for long term health and cancer protection”
    “Among the very youngest newborns who catch it, one in 200 dies of it. It was very unpleasant for for both of us, but not dangerous”.

  • Astreja

    I got the worst flu of my entire life ten years ago. The following autumn I started getting the flu shot as soon as it became available. No flu since then. It seems to be working extremely well for my immune system — YMMV.

  • Mike Stevens

    What’s wrong Cia… posting under a new profile, I see? Why is that?[You clearly want me to block this one too. I’ll wait and see about that…]

    “The reason is that millions of us have reacted severely to vaccines.”
    Except when you are asked for the evidence that millions have severely reacted to vaccines, you can’t produce any, can you? You just list some anecdotes, or cite books written by antivax quacks or antivax propaganda websites instead. In the real world, those fairy tales do not amount to valid scientific evidence, Cia.

    ” In my case, I reacted to a tetanus booster with having both arms paralyzed starting the same day (brachial plexus neuropathy)”
    Except brachial plexus neuropathy due to vaccines is almost always unilateral and takes 3-7 days to manifest.

    “and was later diagnosed with MS”
    …which is unconnected with vaccination, as multiple studies have confirmed, as described in this review of all the available published scientific evidence.

    “My daughter reacted to the hep-B vaccine at birth, given without permission, with screaming syndrome for four days and nights.”
    As you previously told us, your daughter had antenatal hypoxia from a true knot in her umbilical cord, had to have an emergency CS, and still had a low Apgar score at 5 minutes post delivery indicating a degree of residual cerebral hypoxia. Her “screaming syndrome” (which you wrongly label as “encephalitis”, despite never taking her to a doctor for even a cursory examination) was later suggested by a doctor to be due to colic (which though unusual in the first week after birth has been recorded in around 10% of those with the condition).

    “At 18 months old, she was saying two words, uh for up at the playground and uff when she saw a dog. Both words were erased as soon as she got the DTaP booster, and she was diagnosed with autism two months later.”
    As you have also told us, your family has several people who suffer from autism, the reason being a hereditary genetic defect in neuronal synapsing within the communication centres in the brain (a Neurexin-1 gene deficiency). The presenting phenotype for this is autism. You told us your daughter had this genetic defect too, and her neurodevelopmental delay is due to this. Vaccines have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

    “…disablilities caused by vaccines (asthma, allergies, seizure disorders, ADHD, learning disorders)….”
    …Except there is absolutely no convincing scientific evidence that any of these are caused by vaccines, outside the occurence of febrile seizures in a tiny proportion of vaccine recipients (these being benign and having no long term sequelae). Again, the only “evidence” you can present for us is hearsay and extracts from books written by antivaccine cranks.

    “…are much larger and life-damaging conditions than any of the VPDs are or would be even if no one vaxxed for any of them.”
    Tell us, how can vaccines (which do not cause these conditions anywhere except in your fevered imagination) be more damaging than the diseases they prevent? In the prevaccine era, well over 10,000 deaths in the US occurred each year from diseases now preventable by vaccines, with hundreds of thousands suffering long term damage. A more recent estimate is that the vaccination programme saved 732,000 deaths over 20 years in the US (36,000 child deaths prevented each year).
    Do you have a shred of evidence that vaccines have caused more than 36,000 deaths per year in the US? (again, please remember that ridiculous extrapolations from VAERS and quotes from antivax propaganda web sites or internet cranks are NOT valid evidence)

  • Mike Stevens

    Your a lying fantasist, with no pretensions to know anything about vaccines.
    Stop dispensing dangerous advice.

  • FallsAngel

    The Amish don’t shun ALL modern technology. Cell phone are OK, land lines aren’t. Stuff like that.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    To comment on one tiny strand of your spaghetti, ASD diagnoses have risen sharply in the last couple of decades due to improved diagnostic criteria and treatment. I’ve just had a diagnosis of Autism and ADD at the age of 50 and I’m female. 40 years ago “girls didn’t have autism” apart from a minute fraction of severe, non-verbal and unreachable cases. Now it’s recognised that Autism is in fact a spectrum and people fall at different points. Nothing to do with increased vaccinations. I haven’t had a vaccination since I can’t remember when…

  • Alexander Porter

    It has everything to do with increased vaccine rates, as aluminum hydroxide easily crosses the blood brain barrier in babies and pretermies, aided by Tween 80. Autistic brains have been shown to have high levels of aluminum. This coincidences with all the other ailments caused by vaccines: https://www.focusforhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Chronic_Illness_in_US_Children_FINAL_3-3-2016.pdf?gclid=COqN84GvyNYCFRtXDQodRI0LIg-) Also, if you’re not current – according to the pro-vax dogma, you are putting children’s lives in danger.

  • Alexander Porter

    I’ll bet you’ve never even read a research publication. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19740540

  • Alexander Porter

    Polio has not been and never was eradicated from India. The effects of the vaccines can lead to spine lesions, much like happened in the US in the 50’s. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-health-polio/who-plays-down-risk-to-indian-children-from-tainted-polio-vaccine-idUSKCN1MB3H1

  • Alexander Porter

    You’ve posted zero science… hundreds of times. You’ve ignored the toxicology science more times than that. https://docs.google.com/document/d/10GHQRVhjXTg-jUFfmJ5TrhmbwmGihQD8qWk8hvlwftc/mobilebasic?fbclid=IwAR1mjQaic79e0IiA0QSCo3GhjWTD1jFw-F70EWYiVkqYJ2FCSTowwRK74x0

  • shay simmons

    It merged with Brokaw Hospital to become BroMenn and then was acquired by the Advocate chain in 2014 or so. It’s now Advocate BroMenn. Of course, everyone in town still calls it BroMenn.

  • shay simmons

    “I’d say parents should seriously consider giving the DT series after two years old”

    So tell us your qualifications to give such advice.

  • Alexander Porter

    This is not data by any stretch of the imagination.

  • Alexander Porter

    You are the one denying vaccine injuries and adverse effects exist, despite these adverse side effects being listed on each vaccines inserts. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1ttfj_1GTXYV2Z0S1laQWdvd2s/view

  • Alexander Porter

    I’m autistic.

    Suddenly, your posts all make more sense. Ironically, before you attempt to eliminate people like me from the discussion by shouting them down (while presenting zero data), I would like to remind you that I am one of many who have no vested interest in this exchange — loving parents, taxpayers, voters, neighbors and contributors to society – except for better medicine for our children. We have your back in ways you are probably not aware of and I am fighting for your rights along with mine.

  • Brian

    Good grief! Another anti-vaxxer gish gallop.

    Tell me, have you read even one of those studies? Vaccines don’t cause autism, and years of scientific studies prove it.

  • Alexander Porter

    Link a single one of your said studies.

  • Alexander Porter

    And ignored the entire body of data I just posted …

  • Brian

    There are several. How about

    Taylor et al. 2014: Vaccines are not associated with autism: an evidence based meta analysis of case control and cohort studies
    PMID 24814559

  • Brian

    Nope. It’s just that your “list” has been refuted many times already. It’s called a gish gallop.

  • Brian

    Have you ever read a research publication? Did you realize that the author of that paper holds the undesired reputation of having multiple papers retracted as fraudulent. He was caught manipulating data and literally photoshopping images (just like other authors of anti-vaccine papers).

  • d’Monique

    Do you have indisputable proof that your ailments are caused by vaccines? If so, feel free to take it to court. Because you CAN sue the manufacturer, you just need strong evidence. (Or start with the VICP if you live in US)

    VPDs are large and life-damaging, that’s why we try to vaccinate them into extinction. Measles, for example, send about 20 % to hospital, several of them will get permanent conditions and some will die. Some will die long after as well due to SSPE. Everyone that gets measles will get reduced immunity due to immune amnesia, something anti-vaxxers never seem to have heard about. ( Link for more reading )

    Chicken Pox is less severe but can prove fatal if you have underlying health issues. 100% risk of getting shingles later in life.

    Now please provide me the number when it comes to vaccines. How big risk is it to have an adverse reaction to a vaccine compared to the disease itself?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You don’t have my back at all. Your entire argument rests on the idea that I would be better off dead from an easily preventable disease. That’s why you anti-vax predators do everything in your power to avoid hearing from us. You want to use us as props in your misinformation campaigns, but you have no concern for us as people.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The thousands of other people who died in that epidemic are.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’re a bigot who thinks people are better off dead than autistic.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Measles also wiped out somewhere in the area of eighty percent of Hawaii’s indigenous population.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax predators.

  • Mike Stevens

    I’m denying vaccine injuries exist?
    Wow are you deluded…
    I’ll tell you what, show me a comment I’ve made where I’ve denied that vaccine injuries exist and I’ll give $1000 to a charity of your choice.
    …Should be simple (unless you are lying!)

  • Mike Stevens

    I’ve published more medical research articles than you’ve read in your life…
    …And none of them were fraudulent or fabricated like the article you cite.

  • 74tnagrl74

    You cannot sue the manufacturers,but the taxpayer does pay $ for injuries and death,through VAERS. Have you checked out the latest DOJ report on adjudicated cases? Awful lot of $ for ‘safe’ vaccines. Supreme court ruled vaccines are not safe. Set yourself on fire.

  • 74tnagrl74

    Well,Id say that was b4 1960,right? How clean was their environment? Its 2019,wake up. Chemicals injected DO NOT make you healthy. Mustve forgot 5th grade science.

  • 74tnagrl74

    The diseases they fear are listed as adverse effects on the vaccine they inject. Too many sheeple.

  • 74tnagrl74

    Lol,date of last death from what you call diseases,but are just viruses. Ill wait.

  • 74tnagrl74

    Not according to the DOJ quarterly report,but keep regurgitating what youre told to,good doggy.

  • 74tnagrl74

    Could you explain why oncology and nicu units have BIG signs stating recently vaxxed to please refrain from visiting? Then explain how tdap,just 1,says not to use on anyone with siblings or parents with auto immune disorders?

  • 74tnagrl74

    Redefined it exactly whats done,cant have cases after stating a “cure” is had.

  • shay simmons
  • shay simmons
  • shay simmons

    You are confusing VAERS and the VICP (which is funded by an excise tax on the manufacturers. Also, you can sue vaccine manufacturers, they do not have blanket immunity. https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html

  • shay simmons

    Really? I was born in 1955 in a middle-class, middlewestern suburb. We lived in a nice house, we had flush toilets, refrigeration, clean water etc., a healthy diet and lots of exercise.

    We also had measles, mumps, whooping cough, chicken pox and rubella. And 5th grade science knows that airborne diseases are not affected by a clean environment.

  • shay simmons

    Every medical authority in the world calls them diseases; because they are.

  • Tiny but fierce

    My ex-brother-in-law is deaf because his mother had Rubella while she was pregnant. Children who get measles have a significant chance of coming out deaf, blind and/or brain damage, especially babies and toddlers. These are not just common childhood diseases!

  • cecilia

    The newest study just out (but hardly the first with the very similar findings):

    Another study shows that autism is mainly genetic. Antivaxers go crazy.

    worth a read although you know anti-vaxxers won’t bother because it’s riddled with facts, logic and useful information.

  • cecilia

    don’t even go there. I was born in the early 1950’s and in MY family the whole house was so clean you could run your tongue down the kitchen floor and never catch a speck of dust. Every member of my family was obsessively clean. We were middle class and I was always fed VERY healthy food. (Junk food was just not allowed in the house.)

    I remember getting chickenpox and German Measles. And my mother slept in our room (my brother and I since we had these illnesses at the same time). This way she could wake if we were in ANY was in distress. She made sure we never got skin infections by bathing us. So, we were lucky and recovered because of mom’s diligence. And obsessive cleanliness.

    But a virus doesn’t give a rat’s behind how clean your home is. If you don’t have antibodies and you are near an infected person, too bad, you get infected.

    From what I’ve read the measles vaccine was out in 1963. As I don’t remember getting measles at all, I suspect my Mother had me vaccinated. Which I am VERY glad about considering what we have more recently learned about the continuing horror of measles. Meaning that your immune system is compromised for a good 2 to 3 years after, making way for any other diseases to attack you. Oh, joy!

    I consider myself incredibly lucky to have been brought up by such a wonderful and attentive family.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Really fun fact: you don’t get to define what does and doesn’t make someone Amish. Or anything else, for that matter.

  • Tiny but fierce

    Not too mention being funded by lawyers trying to win a lawsuit…

  • Tiny but fierce

    That’s funny, when I got my children vaccinated, their doctors gave me a brochure and talk about the small but present chance of adverse reactions and how they would present. I was informed. I also know personally the adverse effects of the diseases they prevent. Both my children are healthy adults with healthy, vaccinated children of their own.

  • SmilingChaos

    lololol! Why would I care if brain dead ignoramuses take me seriously? You clearly can’t even understand the link you shared. I’ve scraped stuff off my shoe that was more educated than you.

  • Brian

    It doesn’t say that. Whoever told you it does isn’t telling the truth.

  • SmilingChaos

    Oh look, an example of the results of that brainwashing. It’s an epidemic of idiocy.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Polio has not been and never was eradicated from India.”
    I’m glad to see we’ve got an expert here who knows more than all the global and WHO’s specialist epidemiologists, virologists, and public health specialists put together.

  • Mike Stevens

    I looked at your “list of doctors who say vaccines aren’t effective”.
    There are 48 of them. Wow, that’s world shattering news.
    Actually some aren’t medical doctors at all, and the ranks of the remainder are swelled with luminaries like Andrew Wakefield (no longer a licensed doctor, and an infamous scientific fraudster), dozens of cranks whose medical specialty lies outside the fields of vaccines, infections and epidemiology, and scam artists whose main income comes from selling gullible people quack therapies, anti vaccine books and vaccine exemptions. And it’s remarkable how many of your “doctors” have had publications retracted.

  • Alexander Porter

    What year was it eradicated, genius?

  • Mike Stevens

    …So those “important things you had to do” turned out to be less important than your compulsion to spread lies about vaccines on the internet after all?

  • Brian

    There are three serotypes of polio. Type 2 has been globally eradicated, with the last wild case seen in 1999. Type 3 hasn’t been seen anywhere since 2012.

  • Alexander Porter

    You do understand that this paper is a meta analysis of 23 other studies that study one vaccine (MMR) and one ingredient (thimerosal)? Do you also understand that there are generally over 30 ingredients in each of the 16 administered to children in the US? This is like taking one ingredient and comparing it from a two-pack-a-day smoker to a one-pack-a-day smoker and then stating there isn’t a difference in the rate of lung cancer. Case closed!

  • Alexander Porter

    The arrogance here is inspiring. All research I have posted (that’s hundreds of publications), has been retracted save for the one published by Shaw, and it’s not because the research wasn’t valid. It’s because he couldn’t reproduce the method and assay – but he has followed up with other papers validating this point. Papers are retracted all the time in the industry. Given how little we understand about the human immune system, that is normal.

    What is so difficult to understand that known nuerotoxins like aluminum hydroxide turn out to be biotoxic and cause adverse reactions (as listed on all vaccine inserts)? You’ve ignored virtually all scientific evidence, why should I even respond to you anymore?

    How can you stand behind these products when their manufacturers won’t even produce them if they had to do so?

  • Alexander Porter

    While incidences of VAPP have increased, along with AFMM https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-the-public/20181119mmwr-afm.html?fbclid=IwAR0ynYQ81E0ritErDi4uL0J75RViOuyVmahSjbFD7q6bUNcTZ4ymiEGy8zI Polio still has not been eradicated in India.

  • Alexander Porter

    More non-data from a non-existent source.

  • Alexander Porter

    Great, so you’ve finally admitted vaccines can and do cause autism, as listed on inserts and demonstrated in the hundreds of publications I’ve posted here!

  • Alexander Porter

    Shaw couldn’t reproduce the original data set. If you’ve ever maintained a lab notebook, you would understand that it unfortunately happens. I’m sure this is bogus as well: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0946672X17308763

  • Alexander Porter

    Oh really? Link a single one. I’ve posted literally hundreds of publications supporting my position, all of which you’ve conveniently ignored.

  • Brian

    Hilarious! Somehow I knew you would give the same ignorant excuse that you can find on anti vaccine conspiracy blogs.

    Yes, this paper is a meta-analysis (better than double blind studies!) that combined the results of several prior studies. Many studies looked specifically at MMR, but considering MMR uptake is strongly correlated with other vaccine uptake, it’s lack of correlation also shows that other vaccines aren’t correlated either.

    And the thimerosal studies included vaccines for pertussis, Hep B, diphtheria, tetanus, HiB, and Influenza. These vaccines don’t cause autism either.

    If the vaccine doesn’t cause autism, then it automatically means that ALL of the vaccine ingredients, at relevant quantities, don’t cause autism either.

    Next time try reading the actual study if you don’t want to look foolish.

  • Alexander Porter

    Oh, that’s right, in your view, the collateral damage of vaccine injuries still falls too far short of the potential calculated ‘lives saved’ based on some magical criteria. Strange moral position there.

  • cecilia

    projecting?

  • Mike Stevens
  • Alexander Porter

    First, this meta analysis is behind a paywall. So I looked up what epidemiological studies it referenced, and from what I had time for, only measured short term effects, and no interaction or multiple interaction studies from multiples administered at the same time. No single batch of any vaccine can render all other vaccines with the same single ingredient un-reactive. Many vaccines also contain contaminated DNA and RNA particles, which also integrates into human (babies especially) immune systems in ways we still do not understand. Besides, Thimerosal is simply one ingredient, and you’re attempting more exasperated tunnel vision that are the same boring platitudes often parroted. All of their inserts clearly state they can cause a number of adverse effects, including seizures and autism!

  • Alexander Porter

    Peanut gallery?

  • Brian

    Of course it’s bogus!

    It’s Exley’s pathetic attempt at trying to use unreliable data to push a disproven hypothesis.

    Consider this- imagine you were trying to test a new weight loss drug. You recruit five people to take the drug daily for six weeks. Every two weeks, you measure their weight using a scale you got from the thrift store. You never weighed them before the study.
    For one participant, the three weights are 200lbs at two weeks, 600 lbs at four weeks, and 80 lbs at six weeks.

    The other measurements were also wildly inconsistent, but you ignore that and tell everyone that your drug works.

    Sound ridiculous? I agree, but that’s what Exley did.

  • Alexander Porter

    It’s not disproven by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it’s pretty clear, and the research is still progressing, and elucidated here: http://vaccinepapers.org/al-adjuvant-causes-brain-inflammation-behavioral-disorders/

    I’m sure you’ll tell yourself it’s all some crazy conspiracy! I’m sure you tell mothers of vaccine injured children that she doesn’t know what happened to her child and that their life is an unfortunate coincidence. Appalling and antiquated.

  • Brian

    You’ve failed to list a single one with anything remotely close to convincing evidence.

    One mediocre study that has been independently replicated is better than 100 poor studies that haven’t.

    The study I provided had 1,250,000 subjects with very repeatable results.

  • Brian

    If you have to lie to defend your position, you should change your position.

    No, the inserts don’t say that. I have all of them.

    No, DNA does not “integrate into our immune system”. That’s an easily debunked hoax.

    All vaccines have been studied for long term effects.

    And no, the study isn’t even behind a paywall. Sure, some websites will charge you for it, but a simple search on Google scholar brings up the pdf.

  • cecilia

    you aren’t very good at clever repartee

  • Brian

    Hilarious. The anti vaccine blog “vaccine papers”, which is about as reliable as a magic eight ball.

    Several years ago, that blog was brand new. Dan (the blog owner) wrote up an article trying to refute a study from 2003 that showed the MMR vaccine was unassociated with autism. Dan’s rant was long-winded and scientifically ignorant. I pointed out that his concerns, which he insisted were never addressed, were right there in the paper he was criticizing, proving that he was either (1) too illiterate to understand a scientific paper, or (2) being deliberately dishonest knowing that his readers were too gullible or ignorant to notice.

  • Alexander Porter

    Unfortunately, not a single one of those papers claims herd immunity has been achieved, in fact they all correctly state the shortcomings of efficacy and longevity. Nor can anyone read them in entirety as they are behind paywalls. You have also completely failed to understand the difference between efficacy and toxicity.

    I don’t know how to make this more clear: Herd immunity cannot be induced by any of the 16 vaccines currently mandated recommended for children because: a) the low and varying rates of adult vaccination in the US https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/65/ss/ss6501a1.htm and: b) the fact that vaccines efficacy wears off over time for every single vaccine.

  • Alexander Porter

    And you are terrible at science.

  • Brian

    Still lying.

    Herd immunity is readily observed and commonly measured. The most obvious examples are smallpox and rinderpest.

    Measles is another easy one. Without widespread vaccination, then everyone would get measles. Because of vaccine-induced herd immunity, even the unvaccinated are often protected.

  • Brian

    Weren’t you just complaining that you couldn’t read scientific articles because they’re all behind paywalls (even though many aren’t)?

    And you think other people are terrible at science?

  • Alexander Porter

    The smallpox vaccine did not eradicate the virus by itself via herd immunity. Can you show data to prove that claim?

    Measles herd immunity has never been achieved as it is a statistical impossibility. Also, who are you to deny someone from achieving lifelong immunity from contracting it naturally? It’s not a deadly infection.

  • cecilia

    I don’t lie about science. and I post articles which explain facts and evidence. You don’t.
    because anti-vaxxers have nothing

  • Alexander Porter

    ^This comment adds literally nothing to the conversation. I worked around it.

    Most laypeople don’t understand the science regarding efficacy and toxicology. She clearly does not. That’s how manufacturers keep the ruse going. And most likely people like you have financial, career interests in telling everyone: “VACCINES ARE SAFE AND EFFECTIVE” and “WILL NEVER HARM YOU” until it becomes: “EXCEPT WHEN THEY DO” and to save your reputation: “THE ADVERSE REACTION RATE IS WORTH THE LIVES SAVED”.

    The science continues, the truth will come out. It has time and time again with hundreds of thousands of lives destroyed in the name of ‘public health’ (swine flu vaccine, anyone)?

    When that time comes, hopefully you’ll be humble enough to admit you weren’t being honest with yourself and your audience about the risks when it does.

  • Brian

    Measles killed over 100,000,000 people globally in the last century.

    Do you ever tell the truth?

  • Alexander Porter

    Ironic you’d say that, as vaccine toxicology studies are by far the weakest in the entire pharmaceutical arena.

    http://ipaknowledge.org/resources/LYONSWEILERSYSTREVIEW.pdf

  • Brian

    How surprising! Another dishonest anti-vaccine blog.

  • Brian

    Still lying, I see.

    Why do anti-vaxxers constantly lie!

  • Alexander Porter

    Haha. The data doesn’t lie, buddy. Go crawl back under that rock.

  • Brian

    Correct. The data doesn’t lie. The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious that vaccines don’t cause autism.

    Anti vaxxers refuse to acknowledge reality.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I’ve admitted no such thing. You’re just using autism as a crutch for your anti-science agenda, even as it reveals your hatred of autistic people. You use us as props but you don’t want to hear from us.

    Remember that Saint Wakefield was rightfully disgraced for his fraudulent study that only used a sample size of twelve.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    What do you think cause diseases?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It was before the vaccines. Both my grandfathers made sure that their children wouldn’t have to go through what their brothers did.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Strawman. ALL medical procedures carry risk. This has been known since the very beginning of modern medicine and no one has ever claimed otherwise. What matters is that the risk of the medical procedures is far lower than the risk of the diseases they treat or prevent. The very first vaccine was a matter of a thirty percent chance of death or a chance of less than one percent.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Prenatal exposure to rubella is also one of the extremely few external factors known to increase the risk of the fetus developing autism.

  • Alexander Porter

    Hey it’s the no data guy! I’m tired of your nonsensical babbling. You wouldn’t be honest about vaccine injury risk even if the insert states these facts. You believe VAERS captures all injuries. Long story short, stop following me around. You’re nothing more than an ignorant pro-injection pusher.

  • Alexander Porter

    Why do pro-vaxxers avoid talking about data or answering toxicology questions and just resort to insults?

    Because it’s all the have left. Nothing more than bullying and attempts at intimidation.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think that death is better than autism.

  • Brian

    And Alexander Porter the pathological liar comes back with more!

    He posted a gish gallop of junk research. I asked if he had read even a single one so we could discuss it in detail. He ran away and tried to change the topic, because he couldn’t defend the (lack of) data.

    He posted Exley’s embarrassing autism study, but when I asked him about the actual numbers in the study, he ran away again.

    When he couldn’t refute statistically strong, repeatable studies that prove vaccines don’t cause autism, he tried to pretend they were behind a paywall so he couldn’t see them.

    Why are anti-vaxxers so scared of actual facts and evidence?

  • john tucci

    Super post Mike.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Unfortunately, not a single one of those papers claims herd immunity has been achieved”
    Your claim was that herd immunity from vaccines “doesn’t work”.
    Your misunderstanding arises from your assumption that herd immunity has to be perfect in order to have any impact; …not so.
    It doesn’t have to be 100% effective to have an impact – that is just a Nirvana fallacy.
    The entire point of herd immunity from vaccines is that when the protection threshold has been exceeded, spread of the disease is greatly curtailed. No-one says that no disease will occur ever, just that the incidence of disease among the unvaccinated/vulnerable will drop because they are protected from exposure thanks to the sufficiently high proportion of protected vaccinated individuals around them in that community.
    The review I posted and the papers I posted show this. You either haven’t read them properly or understood them.

    “I don’t know how to make this more clear: Herd immunity cannot be induced by any of the 16 vaccines currently mandated recommended for children because: a) the low and varying rates of adult vaccination in the US https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/vo… and: b) the fact that vaccines efficacy wears off over time for every single vaccine.”
    You are labouring under a number of misconceptions here, hence the straw man arguments you are throwing out.
    1. Not all the vaccines on the schedule result in good herd immunity protection, because duration of individual protection is limited (eg pertussis). There is a spectrum, with viral vaccines like measles being the most effective at inducing immunity (but achieving optimal herd immunity is limited by its high infectivity and R0 of 12-18 rather than lack of duration of immunity).
    2. You assume all adults are vulnerable – they aren’t. For instance, with measles everyone over the age of 57 or so will have natural immunity; those younger will still have vaccine immunity.
    3. You assume that all vaccine immunity wears off, and that adults are therefore vulnerable. That is untrue. Many vaccines induce lasting immunity, with low secondary failure rates. For example measles vaccine immunity is long lived, and the epidemiology of the outbreaks seen in the US confirm this. There have been over 1000 cases so far this year in the US, and if measles immunity wore off, then you’d expect the majority of those infected to be adults. They aren’t – around 80% are below the age of 18, almost all of them unvaccinated. So where is the epidemic of measles in the 40, 50, 60 year olds if their vaccine immunity had worn off?
    here are the data for Rockland outbreak – only 21% are adults (and only 3.5% were fully vaccinated.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3dc04914473a9925d49502cc97928c5409a2ed9c06f6050c843bfa8324f1a3ab.jpg

    4. I gave several examples in my citations about vaccines on the schedule conferring significant herd immunity, even if this is not complete. Obviously you need to exceed certain vaccination thresholds to gain maximal herd immunity, hence in populations with poor vaccine uptake there will also be poorer herd immunity effects.
    For example this one and this one are for Rotavirus vaccine, this one and this one are for meningococcal vaccine, this one and this one are for influenza vaccine, this one and this one for pneumococcal vaccine…. there are more but I’ll leave it there.

    Herd immunity is not perfect; it is variable, complex and influenced by variable vaccine immunity, variable duration of vaccine immunity, heterogeneous populations, and variable vaccination uptake rates.
    But to say it doesn’t exist, or doesn’t work is quite wrong.

  • Mike Stevens

    I take it you are admitting you lied when you claimed that I denied vaccine injuries exist then? (If you can show me where I said this you’d be $1000 richer – since you haven’t done that I guess that’s an admission in itself that you lied)

    My moral position is clear and simple – vaccines prevent far, far more deaths from disease than they cause.
    The risk benefit equation for vaccines is heavily in favour of vaccination. People who can’t appreciate that are deluding themselves.
    [If you like, you can pick any disease/vaccine and we can run through the evidence regarding the risk of complications and deaths from the vaccines as compared to the disease.]

    PS: The mere existence of a vaccine side effect as mentioned on a vaccine insert gives no indication as to the relative frequency with which this will occur. Many of the “side effects” are mentioned only as reported “adverse events following immunisation” since there is a legal requirement for the vaccine insert to mention these events.
    Events are not necessarily caused by the vaccine, they may be quite coincidental (eg death from drowning 3 months after vaccination) but these events are required to be recorded and reported as “adverse events”.

  • Mike Stevens

    Show us your one “best” publication that in your opinion shows vaccines cause autism, and we’ll have a look.

  • Mike Stevens

    Unicorn farts, apparently.

  • Mike Stevens

    IIRC, Shaw has had 4 of his articles retracted.
    Once might be bad luck, but 4 times establishes a pattern of abysmal research methods, an absence of ethics and/or downright fraud.

    One paper was retracted because it contained deliberately manipulated photoshopped images inserted to alter the findings of the study.
    Things can’t really get much worse than that. And to show how lacking in morals he is, he blamed the deceit on a foreign post doc researcher who had by then left the country after completing her attachment, instead of shouldering the responsibility himself.

    How can you stand behind the poor research work that these charlatans produce, and pretend to have the high moral ground here?

  • sabelmouse

    i so agree. i used to think that 90% of online commenters were [willfully ] ignorant/plain stupid but the last few days have convinced me it’s more like 98/99%.
    maybe i all descent upon me?!
    let’s hope they’re somewhat brighter irl, but what are the odds 🙁

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The pro-science side is the only one that ever uses data.

  • d’Monique

    1. You can sue the manufacturer. Look what I found thanks to Google: First link on page one But you might want to start with VICP.

    2. VAERS don’t pay out any money. It’s just a database where anyone can claim anything happened after receiving a shot. Including car accidents, drownings, gun injuries, turning into hulk. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4975a9e4b2bfadd24d87d8beadbf4f3fbac9fa8747e32863f5fe4938e23be3a3.jpg

    3. Taxpayers don’t pay anything. The money comes from each vaccine sold. So which is it? Awful lot of money to vaccine injured or manufacturers making awful lot of money of vaccines?

    4. Awful lot of money to a handful of people while billions of vaccines have been given. Proving that severe vaccine injury is one in a million.

    5. Which supreme court ruled that vaccines are not safe? Because that would mean vaccines should be withdrawn from the market, something they aren’t. So I think you’re lying.

    Sounds like you need to set yourself on fire and do some research.

  • S bean

    liar

    Polio-free certification: WHO South-East Asia

    For certification, all countries in the WHO Region need to have no caseof wild polio for 3 consecutive years in presence of high quality AFP
    surveillance systems.

  • Alexander Porter

    I’m not a liar. You’re just clueless.

    Polio is not yet gone: it prevails in India

    https://www.bmj.com/content/361/bmj.k2077/rr

  • Sophotroph

    You ignored it first!

    Seriously, try reading the things you cite. It helps, I promise.

  • Sophotroph

    I agree they should be regulated. They set themselves up as loss-leader bait-and-switch operations to capture and profitize the digital commons.

    That said, they are not regulated that way now. An argument based on how things ought to be is a failed argument.

  • Sophotroph

    There’s nothing to refute.

    There is already an established path for legitimate science. Your boys couldn’t hack it, so they decided to try to fool people who don’t understand how science works by issuing a “Refute me bro!” challenge.

    Surprise! They got you!

  • Sophotroph

    What did 5th grade science say about injecting chemicals, pray tell?

    Did you forget 3rd grade, where they explain that you, and everything else, is made of chemicals?

    Seriously, what gave you the idea that you’d be doing anything other than wasting your time arguing on the internet? You have to have some idea that you’re not very smart.

  • Alexander Porter

    Zero point of reference. What are you even talking about?

  • Brian

    You constantly post links and anti-vaccine propaganda without reading it or bothering to see if it is accurate.

  • 74tnagrl74

    Unavoidably unsafe is what the courts declared. You seem to be confused on WHO pays for vaccine injury. You also havent bothered to read the DOJ quarterly report. Did you know there are cases of autism proven to be caused by vaccines? How about the vaccines causing exactly what they claim to prevent? I find it funny you use google,since theyre removing info they dont agree with (how many Drs you think theyre employing to proof the articles).

  • 74tnagrl74

    Sure,the whole unit mustve been LYING to all of us parents,as we trusted them with our preemies.

  • 74tnagrl74

    50s innoculations compared to today. Youre not up to date,stop spreading diseases. Nobody said a thing about your house. Exactly why talking to people like you is a waste of time. Pills and shots do not build immunity,PERIOD.

  • 74tnagrl74

    Wrong,they dont.

  • cecilia

    getting inoculated in the 50’s and 60’s was to prevent getting infections IN THE 50’S, 60’S AND 70’S and it worked out great because I didn’t get the diseases THEN and I didn’t give anyone else those diseases.

    I don’t have to worry about smallpox NOW because that is GONE GONE GONE. I don’t really have to worry about polio because I’m not moving from where I live – and I’m not hanging around the uneducated plague lovers who refuse to vaccinate their unfortunate children.

    So, while I may not be “up to date” with measles, the likelihood of me coming in contact with one of you anti-vaxxers is very slim.

    As to my overall health, I know this will disappoint you, but because I was raised right (healthy food, visits to the doctor with all the vaccines that were available at the time, exercise, good education, etc) All of my adult life I’ve been incredibly healthy. I could go YEARS without a cold. Barely a sniffle – I’m serious. Am I lucky? Yup! And it’s all because I was raised by intelligent people who understand science, logic and evidence.

    A healthy immune system is built up by a number of means – all of which I was privileged to get. When I was vaccinated against polio, smallpox and measles my VERY healthy immune system responded by robustly making lots of happy little antibodies. That made it possible for me to STAY healthy.

    And, by the way, my mother is STILL a healthy 98 year old. And still gets her vaccinations.

  • Brian

    Or you just aren’t remembering correctly.

  • shay simmons

    Name a public health/medical authority who doesn’t.

    https://wwwn.cdc.gov/nndss/conditions/notifiable/2019/

  • Cia

    The other day I found that Disqus was telling me that I had to sign in. That was only the third time in many years that I had been signed out: I was not aware in any of those cases as to how it occurred. I had not signed out. I tried to sign in, it asked me for my email, then said it had no one by that email in its records. I tried to sign up for a new account, gave it my email, and it said that it already had someone by that email address. So I got another account somewhere else. I’d really rather keep the first one, but I’ve tried several things and can’t seem to do it. I’d like to have my other avatar as well, but after a lot of effort, can’t do it. Nor can I resize this one. At least I have other competencies.

    One problem is that vaccine reactions simply do not come with an imprimatur guaranteeing that it was a vaccine which caused the symptoms of the reaction. You have to use other methods, looking at what could have happened to cause it, how soon after the vaccine was given that the symptom manifested, as well as methods such as epidemiological studies comparing outcomes in different groups, such as vaxxed and unvaxxed. And, of course, both methods have yielded thousands of replicable studies published in peer-reviewed professional journals. An additional problem is that it is the rule rather than the exception that vaccine reactions very rarely occur very quickly after the vaccine was received. Days, weeks, even months or years, are the usual time frame, but the more time passes, the more difficult it is to prove that it was the vaccine which caused it. Obviously it doesn’t mean it didn’t, and those who have been injured will just have to go ahead and try to treat their symptoms, if they have good reason to believe, from reading or hearing of others’ experiences, that they were caused by one or more vaccines.

  • Mike Stevens

    Ah, I get it…
    …you think the opinion of a “yoga therapist” and a student who jointly posted a rapid response on the BMJ (which anyone can do; they are a bit like the BMJ equivalent of Disqus comments) outguns the WHO Polio Eradication experts and the global epidemiology specialists who declared India “polio free”…

    Explain to us why you’d do that.
    It’s the equivalent of claiming the “Earth is flat”, while citing an Internet forum comment by a couple of Albanian lifeguards as your evidence.

  • Mike Stevens

    “You believe VAERS captures all injuries.”

    I believe VAERS reports show the vaccine definitely caused the alleged injury in 3% of cases.
    …Because that is what the evidence shows…
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23063829/

  • d’Monique

    Yes, I use Google. You should too, you might learn something. 🙂

    For example: ‘Unavoidably unsafe’ simply means a product can’t become safer than it already is, without render it useless. (Look, another nice link I found thanks to Google.)

    Who pays for vaccine injury? Those who pay for vaccines.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/15a8c8bbf6f7e26590c7ca712f3e6addf9ec25a6d46429f53626c1ba5e71f335.jpg
    Don’t buy vaccines if you don’t want to fund the VICP.

    Why should I read the DOJ report? What do you expect me to find there?

    Yes, I know there are real vaccine injuries. But the risk is still one in a million. Compare that do the diseases they protect against. I gave you the risk % in my previous post.

  • Cia

    I put up a quotation from Plotkin and Mortimer’s Vaccines which stated that brachial plexus neuropathy (what I had starting the same day as a tetanus booster) could initiate starting on day 1. You don’t recall that? It was caused by the mercury in that and the previous eight DPT/dTs and had had. Anyone who cares to do so (maybe using a search engine other than Google?) can find hundreds of studies and articles on the association of MS and mercury-containing vaccines. I am not the first or only one to have made the connection.

    And, again, as I have said many times, my daughter was sent home from the hospital as healthy on Monday morning, May 7, after having been born on Friday, May 5. We could have gone home sooner, but on the weekend they didn’t have the staffing to process our release. She acted healthy and nursed well until the vaccine encephalitic reaction started on Tuesday evening, May 8, constant, inconsolable screaming for sixteen hours a day, for four days and nights. That is the classic moment for the start of vaccine encephalitis caused by the hepatitis-B vaccine given to newborns, three to five days after receipt of the hep-B vaccine. If it had been a congenital problem, then it would have been evident at birth, and would have continued all along, not starting four days after birth and the screaming syndrome then abruptly stopping at eight days after birth.

    And, as I have said before, the genetic profiles associated with autism do not cause autism automatically, but only when another event triggers them in the genetically predisposed. That’s why we have hundreds of times more autistic young people now than we did thirty years ago. The MTHFR gene, for example, predisposes to autism, but is present in half the American population. Hmm. We now have new neurological disabilities in about 15% of American children, and allergic/autoimmune conditions in about half. How many with these conditions do NOT have one of these conditions? And then how many completely unvaxxed people have this or other suspect genes and do NOT have such a disability?

    There have been literally thousands of studies on vaccines causing allergic and autoimmune disease. You yourself mentioned the book I mentioned last year. And I bought it, but it was expensive, about eighty dollars on Amazon. Vaccine and Autoimmunity, editor Yehuda Schoenfeld. A medical school textbook, an anthology of articles discussing studies on this.

    And back to the most important question. What diseases would be so dangerous, the vaccines for them so safe and effective, that we should take the vaccines for them? You tend to put up statistics from the ’30s. In the ’80s, the only vaccines routinely given were DPT, polio, and MMR. M, M, and R are mild diseases and very beneficial for lifetime health. Rubella, of course, is dangerous for fetuses, but there are several solutions for that problem short of getting the vaccine which often causes severe arthritis. Pertussis evolved to become a relatively mild disease in the 1940s in developed countries. For all but a small percentage of newborns, and there are several solutions for that. Polio and diphtheria are no longer found in developed countries. You know that I recommend either the nosodes or the DT series after two years old, the polio series if it comes back or is desired, and for babies and toddlers who are not breastfed and in daycare, consideration of the Hib series after four months old and maybe the Prevnar series too, although both vaccines are dangerous and should be researched carefully. I say that recognizing that the diseases, if they came back, would be very dangerous for a small number of children not cared for at home. Parents’ choice. Now please elaborate on that if you care to do so, and please don’t tell us how many died of pertussis a hundred years ago. I completely agree that pertussis, diphtheria, and measles were very common and very dangerous diseases until after the War. But pertussis and measles simply aren’t anymore. And it seems that diphtheria might not be a serious problem if it came back now, as it seems to require being parasitized itself with a certain pathogen which is no longer common even when it occurs.

  • Cia

    You’re right. I’m sorry about your nephew losing his language after the MMR. My daughter suffered vaccine encephalitis after the hep-B vaccine at birth, given without permission, but by 18 months, delayed but progressing, was saying two words. I’ll never know how much she might have progressed and recovered from the encephalitis. The DTaP booster erased her only two words immediately and she was diagnosed with autism two months later. I’m sorry these — are attacking you. What you have described has happened to millions, and you know the cause, I know it, they know it.

  • Cia

    Your proof being? No one had ever heard of autism before Rainman thirty years ago, and doctors at that time were told it was so rare they were very unlikely to see a single case in their entire careers. Dr. Kanner said it was so unusual and distinctive that if it had existed before the cases he saw in the ’30s, someone would have described it, but no one ever had. The anthology Childhood Psychiatry, a Johns Hopkins anthology from 1935, didn’t mention anything vaguely resembling autism.

    The few private studies which have been done (no national government wishes to cross its pharma lobbyists by doing such a study) have shown that unvaxxed populations are much healthier than vaxxed ones, and completely unvaxxed children are at close to zero risk of autism, while vaxxed ones now have an autism rate in the US of one in 36 children.

  • Cia

    Have you seen that Democratic presidential candidate Tulsi Gabb-ard is suing *** for its unchecked censorship of views it dislikes, skewing public discourse in an unconst— way? Look at Tuck-r Car-son interviews on Y-T. Also on the sensational Robert Mu-ller hearing last week. I’d like to say more about my account problem, but I guess I’d better quit while I’m ahead.

  • Mike Stevens

    “You have to use other methods [to see if vaccines cause injuries], looking at what could have happened to cause it, how soon after the vaccine was given that the symptom manifested, as well as methods such as epidemiological studies comparing outcomes in different groups, such as vaxxed and unvaxxed. And, of course, both methods have yielded thousands of replicable studies published in peer-reviewed professional journals.”

    Quite. That’s what scientists do, but not antivaxers.
    …Look for all possible causes [don’t jump to conclusions it must have been the vaccine when there are other far more plausible explanations, like all antivaxers do]
    …Check the temporal relationship [but don’t deploy the post hoc ergo proper hoc fallacy, like all antivaxers do]
    …Look at epidemiological studies comparing outcomes in different groups and cohorts [but don’t reject all the studies that show no vaccine link for entirely spurious reasons, like all antivaxers do]

    You are right, there are “thousands of replicable studies published in peer-reviewed journals”. They all demonstrate that vaccines are highly effective, very safe with a low risk of any serious complications, and that there is no causal link to conditions like autism, epilepsy, obesity, diabetes, ADHD, blue tongue disease, MS, crooked facial appearance, ovarian failure, baldness, Gradenigo’s syndrome, gout, Down’s syndrome or haemophilia.

  • Mike Stevens

    “And I bought it, but it was expensive, about eighty dollars on Amazon. Vaccine and Autoimmunity, editor Yehuda Schoenfeld.”
    Well that was a waste of money.
    I’m tempted to say that spending it on yet more homeopathic snake oil to remove the imaginary mercury from your brain would have been a better investment, but then I decided no… at least you can use the book in place of firewood on a winter’s evening.

  • Mike Stevens

    “What diseases would be so dangerous, the vaccines for them so safe and effective, that we should take the vaccines for them? You tend to put up statistics from the ’30s.
    No, I put up data from the prevaccination era. That differs for different vaccines.
    For polio that means the 1940s-50s, for measles the 1950s, for varicella the 1980s-90s, and so on.
    But you can see what happens even as recently as the 90s with large outbreaks of measles in the US.
    Between 1987 and 2000, there were 67,000 cases reported.
    177 kids died (0.3%)
    12,800 were hospitalised (19.2%)
    3,959 had pneumonia (5.9%)
    Around a thousand had encephalitis (some late cases of SSPE are still being diagnosed today)
    https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/189/Supplement_1/S4/823958

    So take your “measles is a harmless disease” mantra and shove it where the sun don’t shine, Cia, because I am fed up of your callous, inhumane and couldn’t care less attitude to the devastating illness caused by vaccine preventable diseases.
    As I told you, it is estimated that over the last 20 years 732,000 lives have been saved by vaccines.
    …Not last century, Cia, but during your own daughter’s lifetime. Wake up will you.
    https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0424-immunization-program.html

  • Mike Stevens

    Don’t expect a direct answer, or a rational one.

  • Mike Stevens

    …But it was a “beneficial” disease!

  • Mike Stevens

    “Spontaneous pen1le erect1on”?
    Isn’t that a beneficial effect, rather than an adverse reaction?

    (…3rd attempt to get past the naughty filter)

  • anne marie hovgaard

    This is just silly, as should be obvious to anyone with the ability to think critically. “Having a neurological or learning issue” is not something clear-cut and objectively observable like having a broken leg. Everyone is different, and what counts as an “issue” depends on where you draw the line. 1 in 6 = 16,67%; if we draw the line at 1SD below the mean just over 14% have a general learning “issue” by definition (and depending on what you’re going to use that number for that may be a perfectly reasonable choice), so all we need is about 2 1/2% kids with dyslexia, ASDs and whatever else we feel like counting. That doesn’t mean the sky is falling, it’s not even a sign that anything is wrong: people are different and that’s OK.

    And of course kids had diabetes in the past, type 1 used to be called juvenile diabetes. As for the increase in type 2, that’s because they’re heavier now. Some kids get cancer, that’s horrible and tragic and nothing new, sadly.

    I have no idea what you’re trying to say with that last bit, sorry, it’s too incoherent. Who are “they” and how can you claim to know something if it’s never documented?

  • anne marie hovgaard

    1. link please. 2. the way that compensation system works, the burden of proof is reversed. You don’t have to prove that the vaccine caused an injury, they just have to fail to prove convincingly that the reason was something else.

  • Raging Bee

    …says the guy who offers no data and no sources of his own.

  • Mike Stevens
  • Brian

    If I had a dollar for every time you specifically have been proven wrong on these same false claims…

    Hviid et al showed the completely unvaccinated had slightly higher rates of autism compared to the general population.

  • Cia

    I put up a quotation from Plotkin and Mortimer’s Vaccines which
    stated that brachial plexus neuropathy (what I had starting the same day
    as a tetanus booster) could initiate starting on day 1. You don’t
    recall that? It was caused by the mercury in that and the previous eight
    DPT/dTs and had had. Anyone who cares to do so (maybe using a search
    engine other than Google?) can find hundreds of studies and articles on
    the association of MS and mercury-containing vaccines. I am not the
    first or only one to have made the connection.

  • Cia

    And, again, as I have said many times, my daughter was sent home from the hospital as healthy on Monday morning, May 7, after having been born on Friday, May 5. We could have gone home sooner, but on the weekend they didn’t have the staffing to process our release. She acted healthy and nursed well until the vaccine encephalitic reaction started on Tuesday evening, May 8, constant, inconsolable screaming for sixteen hours a day, for four days and nights. That is the classic moment for the start of vaccine encephalitis caused by the hepatitis-B vaccine given to newborns, three to five days after receipt of the hep-B vaccine. If it had been a congenital problem, then it would have been evident at birth, and would have continued all along, not starting four days after birth and the screaming syndrome then abruptly stopping at eight days after birth.

  • Cia

    We now have new neurological disabilities in about 15% of American children, and allergic/autoimmune conditions in about half. How many with these conditions do NOT have one of these conditions? And then how many completely unvaxxed people have this or other suspect genes and do NOT have such a disability?

    There have been literally thousands of studies on vaccines causing allergic and autoimmune disease. You yourself mentioned the book I mentioned last year. And I bought it, but it was expensive, about eighty dollars on Amazon. Vaccine and Autoimmunity, editor Yehuda Schoenfeld. A medical school textbook, an anthology of articles discussing studies on this.

    And back to the most important question. What diseases would be so
    dangerous, the vaccines for them so safe and effective, that we should take the vaccines for them? You tend to put up statistics from the ’30s.

  • Cia

    In the ’80s, the only vaccines routinely given were DPT, polio, and
    MMR. M, M, and R are mild diseases and very beneficial for lifetime
    health. Rubella, of course, is dangerous for fetuses, but there are
    several solutions for that problem short of getting the vaccine which
    often causes severe arthritis. Pertussis evolved to become a relatively mild disease in the 1940s in developed countries. For all but a small percentage of newborns, and there are several solutions for that. Polio and diphtheria are no longer found in developed countries. You know that

    I recommend either the nosodes or the DT series after two years old, the polio series if it comes back or is desired, and for babies and
    toddlers who are not breastfed and in daycare, consideration of the Hib series after four months old and maybe the Prevnar series too, although both vaccines are dangerous and should be researched carefully. I say that recognizing that the diseases, if they came back, would be very dangerous for a small number of children not cared for at home. Parents’ choice. Now please elaborate on that if you care to do so, and please don’t tell us how many died of pertussis a hundred years ago. I completely agree that pertussis, diphtheria, and measles were very common and very dangerous diseases until after the War. But pertussis and measles simply aren’t anymore. And it seems that diphtheria might not be a serious problem if it came back now, as it seems to require being parasitized itself with a certain pathogen which is no longer common even when it occurs.

  • Brian

    Wow. Virtually everything you said is the exact opposite of reality.

    In Bruesewitz vs. Wyeth, the Supreme Court REJECTED the claim that vaccines are “unavoidably unsafe”.

    Vaccines have repeatedly been proven NOT to cause autism.

    And vaccines causing diseases? That is the exact opposite of what they do.

  • Cia

    OK, what was mortality from measles in the developed world in the ’50s? Since it was one in 10,000 cases in 1960, 450 deaths a year out of three to four million cases, occurring in 99% of children by 18, I doubt that it was significantly higher in the ’50s. I can look it up on that UK table if you like. Talking mortality, not occurrence. Since it had become a mild, routine, beneficial disease, its simply occurring is a positive thing.

    As you know, I agree that polio was sometimes a terrible disease. Before the vaccines and before agricultural chemicals, 100% of Indian children caught it, usually subclinically, and developed antibodies to it. But this is now, and we just have agricultural chemicals around everywhere, though only a few would be especially susceptible. Polio only caused symptoms in about 10% of those who got it, and in almost the entire 10% the symptoms were of a flu-like illness. In less than one percent was there paralysis, and in a tiny fraction of that it was permanent. But numerically it was a lot in a country the size of the US. I’d recommend either the vaccine series or lathyrus sativus if it came back here, or just if parents were worried about it. That vaccine is not completely safe, but is probably the safest we have.

    Chickenpox is inconsequential. If you want to discuss it, fine, but I think the vaccine is unnecessary, the disease beneficial. What was it, five million cases a year before the vaccine? One hundred deaths, half in children, half in adults.

    The childhood diseases prevent cancer and other serious diseases in later life. So let’s now factor in the millions of deaths from cancer which would not have occurred had the people gone through the febrile childhood diseases during childhood.

    When you say that 732,000 lives have been saved by vaccines, you’re not talking about the US, nor even the US plus all the other developed countries. And you also need to just upfront tell us how many lives destroyed by autism are the equivalent of how many lives saved by vaccines. There is such a figure, which would be different for each person, but it does exist, so tell us what it is for you. One thousand lives destroyed by autism is worth it if one life is saved? If ten or a hundred lives is saved? Is one million with autism worth it for the sake of saving one life from a VPD? Shouldn’t we look at other ways to preserve those lives?

  • Cia

    Did you just look at it at the library at one of your hospitals? I have to say it was very dry for a non-specialist like me, but it was all valuable scientific information.

  • Cia

    I looked at the article you linked. I listened to a Tuck-r Carl-on interview the other day of a (former?) G- executive who said that of course the algor-thms used are biased, and that you have to bring critical thought to what you read on the ***. He said that those who don’t are certainly frequently misinformed and misled. (T asked him if he would be pun- for saying that, and he said he was on admin-strative leave and didn’t know.) That certainly applies here. Your article put a wildly inflated figure on the table and then didn’t say a single word to justify it. It said in 2011 there were 159 cases of measles in the US, last year 140 (or whatever), but since there have been no measles deaths in the US in decades (except for the immunocompromised, fully-vaccinated woman who caught it at a clinic, and no one knew for weeks that she had died of measles), they couldn’t use that to prop up their inflated figure. My bad. It’s not that they couldn’t, and it’s not that they won’t, but they don’t APPEAR to have done so at this time. I skimmed to see how they were going to support it, but reached the end of the article, and it just never did.

  • Thanks4AllTheFish
  • Cia
  • Cia

    Oh, come now. Respectless Insolence? There is a genetic predisposition to react to vaccines, but it is only activated when vaccines are given. That’s why there was ZERO autism before vaccines, but one in 36 American children has it now. There is no such thing as a strictly genetic epidemic. There can be an epidemic when those with the genetic predisposition are exposed to the factor which triggers the results.

  • Brian

    Nope. PIC is trash.

    Every single point they attempt to make displays a gross ignorance of statistics and literally not knowing what “confidence interval” means.

    Seriously. Can’t your side come up with a single rational and consistent argument?

  • Cia

    Kangaroo Vaccine Court, with the shortest statute of limitations of any court? Have you read Vaccine Court about its corruption?

    Actually, anti-vaxxers are aware that Dr. Peter Aaby specifically studies that question and found that 1) natural measles does NOT depress immune function for years (only for a few weeks), and 2) that natural measles slashed all-cause deaths in those lucky enough to have gotten it to one-fifth what it was in those who had not gotten natural measles, whether because they got the vaccine or just did not get measles. And we know that in 1960 measles mortality in the US was one in 10,000 cases, in the UK in the ’80s, one or two deaths per 10,000 cases. We know that measles improves immune function for life, gives females the ablity to protect their babies at the only time in their lives when measles can be dangerous, and prevents cancer and many other diseases in later life.

    You’re saying that ALL of those who get chickenpox will later get shingles? That’s a new one. The only reason that a lot of people get shiingles now is BECAUSE the varicella vaccine has reduced the virus in the environment, preventing people from getting natural boosters. That’s why the UK refuses to give the varicella vaccine. Shingles was very rare before the vaccine: my parents had both had chickenpox, but never got shingles.

    The risk of death or disability from the VPDs would be very small even if no one (in developed countries) gave any vaccines. The risk of disability from vaccines is over 50% (counting allergies and asthma). The risk of autism is now one in 36. And I remember people going berserk at the tragedy of so many ruined lives twenty years ago when it hit one in 200.

  • Brian

    Your claims have been proven false many times, liar.

  • Mike Stevens

    Everything you say is a lie, Cia.
    I’ve explained that to you before, correcting each lie with reference to the plethora of scientific evidence, but you just keep on lying.

  • Mike Stevens

    “When you say that 732,000 lives have been saved by vaccines, you’re not talking about the US.”
    You didn’t bother looking at the reference I cited, did you?
    Of course that was the US.
    Here is the paper. Note what it’s title is.
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6316a4.htm
    Benefits from Immunization During the Vaccines for Children Program Era — United States, 1994–2013.

  • Raging Bee

    FaceBorg (and Goolag and Tw@tter etc) have grown to the point where they
    are and should be considered and regulated as public utilities.

    That’s fine with me, as long as the regs include “don’t spread disinformation about matters of public safety.”

  • Raging Bee

    Got any proof that any of those health effects were actually caused by vaccines? WE have proof of the health effects that vaccines PREVENT.

  • Raging Bee

    No one admitted any such thing, liar.

  • FallsAngel

    She just can’t stop herself!

  • tomonthebay

    Completely false. Blatant lies.

  • cecilia

    take your, “oh come now” and shove it. There was autism before vaccines. Autism happens more often in families = genetic. The evidence is IN and no amount of closing your eyes and ears will change that.

    There’s been over 100 studies in the 20 years since that criminal who lost his medical licence lied about his fake study which proves over and over and over again that vaccines have diddly squat to do with autism.

    The question has been asked here and elsewhere, WHY do you anti-vaxxers hate autistic people? Why do you behave as if they are less than human? Why do you think they are “broken”?
    They are simply born that way and don’t deserve anyone’s disrespect.

    And what do you mean by a “genetic predisposition to react to vaccines”?
    In a healthy body the NORMAL reaction to a vaccine is to create antibodies. A completely normal and expected reaction. It’s as if you people don’t even understand how the immune system works. It’s not magic.

    It’s SCIENCE.

  • d’Monique

    Funny. I keep hearing anti-vaxxers complain about vaccine injuries being underreported and when I and others ask you if you have taken it to court (or reported it to VAERS) we are all met with crickets or excuses. Too many of you don’t even have it in black and white from a doctor.

    No, getting measles doesn’t protect against cancer. There are tests involving a genetically modified virus (a GMO) and you don’t find that in the vaccine or in the wild. https://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2014/05/16/could-measles-cure-cancer-uh-not-exactly/

    I said that the RISK is 100%. UK doesn’t refuse to give the varicella vaccine, it’s simply not part of the childhood vaccination programme. You can still get it if you need it. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/when-is-chickenpox-vaccine-needed/

    Can you please provide a source to your claim of 50% risk of disabiliy from vaccines? I would love to see it.

    Autism didn’t show up with vaccines. It’s always been around, we just gave it a name and learned how to recognize it. Before vaccines it was known as “demon possession” which required exorcism, now people claim that it’s a “vaccine injury” that requires detoxing. Have you heard about changelings? https://www.ranker.com/list/signs-your-child-is-a-changeling/melissa-brinks

    People with autism used to be seen as odd or weird at best or hidden away and lobotomized in mental asylums at worst.

  • cecilia

    You’re saying that ALL of those who get chickenpox will later get shingles?

    wrong. If you got chickenpox as a child you have a one in three chance of getting shingles as an adult. The virus stays in your body for the rest of your life. If your immune system becomes weak and can’t fight off the virus, it can come out as shingles. Sometimes stress can trigger an outbreak.

    unless, of course, you get the shingles vaccine (the new one is well over 90% effective).

    the older shingles vaccine was 50% effective.

  • Cia

    Reply to someone else, I’m being … Absolutely correct that reacting to vaccines is normal. They DESIGN them
    to provoke an inflammat-ry reaction. But many mount too vigorous an
    inflammatory response, it affects the bra-n, and causes enceph-litic
    brain damage. Or the intestines, causing bow-l disea-e.

  • Cia

    Read something for a change. Read Evid-nce of Harm, The Age of
    Auti-m, Denial. J.B. Handl-y’s new book. Dr. Richard Moskow-tz’
    Vaccination. Dr. Halvors-n’s book. On the Internet, read J.-. Ha-dley’s
    Aut-sm not really on the RIse? 99.84% Impossible! Auti-m was new with
    vaccines. Read about Dr. Kan-er’s first writing about it in 1943. Read
    about the history of autism and Asper-er’s, for instance, in Deni-l.

    We hate that vaccines have robbed our children of the lives, the
    personality, the discussions, laughter, the travels, the projects, the
    friendships, the jokes, the dramas, the romances, the careers, the books they would have read, and written, the families they would have had, and raised, and loved. It is of no importance to me that *** like you don’t care about the devastation they promote.

  • Cia

    I read it. It gave no information at all as to how it arrived at such a wild figure. Even if you believed that if the measles vaccine had not been introduced, there would have continued to be 450 deaths a year from measles, it would add up to 9,000 deaths in twenty years. But there is no reason to believe that that would have been the case. Most deaths from measles, in the rare cases they occur, are caused by bacterial pneumonia, which can usually be successfully treated with antibiotics. Most of the measles deaths in the US in 1960 were in malnourished children in the Mississippi Delta. That tragic situation has been long since corrected.

    Pertussis became a relatively mild disease except for a few of the youngest newborns around 1950. You will recall that in the eighteen years in which Sweden did not give the pertussis vaccine, 1979-1998, 60% of Swedish children caught pertussis, but there was less than one death a year from it.

  • Cia

    Mumps and chickenpox are mild, inconsequential illnesses in children.
    Tetanus would be rare no matter what people did. We’d have to see if
    diphtheria would come back, and if it did, if it would be the
    potentially dangerous parasitized bacterium. (And I cautiously recommend the DT series after two years old, even though there would not be huge numbers of deaths whether or not people got it.) Flu is usually relatively mild in children.

    There would be some deaths from haemophilus, pneumococcal, and meningococcal meningitis.Breastfeeding offers good protection, as does caring for children athome, not in daycare. There are nosodes to protect against all these. Most children get immunity to all of them through subclinical exposure by the age of five, and that’s the better course. However, a small number will get the diseases, which can be extremely serious. The vaccines are dangerous, and the Hib vaccine has caused peanut allergy in two percent of those who get it. There are risks and benefits on both sides.

  • Cia

    In the US we do not routinely give the meningococcal vaccine to
    children, while they do in the UK, because the disease does cause a
    number of deaths in children. But on the other hand, all three vaccines
    are dangerous. But let’s think about the meningococcal situation.
    Children are dying of meningococcal disease here. And yet there is no
    panic in the streets, because that is not the direction in which we are
    being chivvied by you-know-who at this time.Why do we give it to teens now, but not to babies and children? It is true the vaccine is quite dangerous for all age groups, but I doubt that factors into their calculus.

    But back to the preposterous figure of 732,000 deaths prevented in twenty years by vaccines. See if you can point out to me a single line in the article you linked which indicates how many died of * disease pre-vaccine, how many it speculates would die now if people didn’t vax for it, and on what it bases its supposition. And then do that for every disease being discussed, and then let’s add them up.

  • Brian

    Never known a single person who got a vaccine injury.

    I know thousands of people who are vaccinated.

    Based on the evidence in the Hviid study, and the logic of PIC, do you accept that vaccines can reduce the risk of autism by 40%?

  • Cia

    Not if they take vitamin A, which reduces the risk of complications to almost nothing.

    I got rubel-a as a child, and so I had imm-nity when I got pregn-nt, and
    it wasn’t a concern for me. Some advocate deliberately giving rubel-a to
    school-aged girls so they get immun-ty long before their child-bearing
    years. It is a very mild disease in everyone but fetuses.

  • Cia

    Children who get meas-es are NOT at significant risk of deaf-ess,
    blind-ess, or bra-n dam-ge. In Euro-e in 2011, 26,0 74 cases of meas-es were reported: there were nine deaths and fifteen cases of probably
    permanent inj-ry. Which would have been prevented by vitam-n A. On the other hand, the MM- causes a large number of cases of br-in damage (a-tism, etc.) and bow-l disease. I had meas-es as a child: everyone I have ever known older than I had meas-es growing up, and not one of them was disabl-d by it. All the hundreds of people I knew at school and at the university, professors and students, had had measl-s, and not one of them was damaged by it.

  • Cia

    Some comments aren’t w m t.

  • Brian

    No cia, people do not advocate deliberately giving diseases to children, if they have any decency.

    Only you do.

  • Cia

    Mea-les is dangerous to populations encountering it for the first time, like Native Americans in the sixteenth century. Or Hawaiians. Like Eb-la, for that matter. After the first few decades, everyone has been exposed to it and people’s immu-e systems develop coping mechanisms. And the dise-se often becomes milder as the result of natural mutations: becoming milder and letting the patient remain ambulant results in greater ability of the pathogen to reproduce and spread. Kill-ng quickly is not in its interests.

  • Cia

    This was originally under the one which starts with M is dan…. How extraordinary that so many ordinary words are no longer permitted.

    So do we want to lose the skill that our species developed over centuries which resulted in measl-s becoming a mild, routine, beneficial childhood dise-se? It would be in no one’s best interest to do so. But that means just letting children go through the natural disease. And, as you also know, the same is happening with Ebo-a. From a k-ll rate of over 90% in its first decades after 1976, its virul-nce has been reduced so that five years ago the morta-ity was only about 50%. And many had antibod-es in their blood from subcli-ical exposure. So there, as with meas-es five hundred years ago, the dise-se is becoming less vir-lent and people’s immu-e systems are developing effective coping mechanisms.

  • tomonthebay

    More lies from cia.

  • FallsAngel

    And why did Sweden restart pertussis vaccine, if pertussis is so trivial?

  • FallsAngel

    No, the taxpayer does not pay for NVICP funding. It’s paid for by an excise tax on each dose of vaccine. If you don’t use vaccines, you don’t pay anything into the NVICP.

  • se habla espol

    Which “Dr. Tom Mack” might you be quoting, and where is the rest of his work? What is the context of this quote, and why should we give it any credence?

  • se habla espol

    How is your religion, which you call “toxicology”, related to the science of toxicology, if at all, and why do you show no evidence that any vaccine is more than 1000th as “toxic” as the diseases they prevent?

  • cecilia

    click on this link for the article:
    Why parents should fear measles, not the vaccine

    Measles is not trivial. It is the most severe of the once-common childhood infections. It is highly contagious and difficult to recognize until the rash appears later in the illness.

    Common complications in the United States include middle-ear infection (otitis media) in 14 percent of reported cases, diarrhoea with risk of dehydration in eight percent and pneumonia in nine percent, the latter caused by the virus or invading bacteria.

    Brain inflammation or encephalitis with convulsions and coma is the most feared complication, occurring in one per 1000 cases. One in three survivors of encephalitis has residual brain damage. A fatal outcome was reported in two per 1,000 measles cases in the U.S., mainly in children with impaired immunity.

  • se habla espol

    I have chosen to research

    What is your bibliography of your published reasearch. In what field(s) are you qualified to actually do credible, validatible research?

    Why do you give the impression that you call “research” is what an honest person would describe as “reading up on the pro-plague propaganda”?

    and feel strongly the narrative denies all the injuries caused by vaccines

    Your feels are irrelevant to any research: give us some credible, replicable research results that we can review. I don’t know about this “narrative” you mention, but we know that the actual numbers show the experienced rate of “injuries” from vaccination to be less than one per million doses. This experience is dramatically lower than the rate of injury from vpds.

    – the smallpox vaccine had many catastrophic failures resulting in deaths and destruction of countless people’s lives,

    This unsupported claim is incomprehensible. What “catastrophic failures” are you babbling about—a failure might be catastrophic to the single patient, but you imply something more widespread than that. It’s also the case that an immunization failure generally result in the catastrophic effects of the disease, not anything that can honestly be attributed to the vaccine.

    including the polio vaccine development, DTP, swine flu, the list goes on,

    What do any of these vaccines have to do with smallpox immunizations?

    and because clearly you’re in no objective position to defend these children

    Is anyone here trying to defend “these children”, whoever they may be, from anything other than potentially catastrophic vpds?

    and I feel like I can.

    Well, whn do you paln to get off your pro-plague high horse and start working for, instead of against vacxcine protection from catastrophic diseases?

    I have nothing to gain from these exchanges.

    Clearly, what you gain is self-administered stroking of an undeserving ego.

    Tell me, grand master, what is the cause for the meteoric rise in ASD in the United States?

    What “meteoric rise”? The only way to make such a claim is the dishonesty of comparing ‘before’ and ‘after’ of a dramatic loosening of the diagnostic criteria, compinded with an increased awareness that ASD is not “worse than death” after all.

    One better, name any one subject in any one field of study where the ‘science is settled’, as in, there is nothing more to learn by further study?

    Again, what does this have to do with the specific questions for which the “science is so far settled”? Epidemiology and immunology are not settled fields, by a long shot, but there’s no reason for them to waste their time, energy, and money chasing more wild pro-plague geese, when there are still unconquered diseases and even better vaccines to develop.

  • Cia

    The immune system learns by doing. It HAS to learn to combat disease by combatting disease. That’s why the formerly universal childhood diseases were so valuable: they honed the skills of the immune system for a lifetime of service, including the prevention of diseases like cancer in later life. If you attempt to prevent the child from ever getting any disease, you have handicapped the system responsible for protecting their lifetime health. And if you do so with vaccines, then you 1) suppress immune function for about a month, in which time a dangerous infection might take hold, 2) induce excessive inflammation, which can become either acute (vaccine encephalitis) or chronic (allergic/autoimmune disease), and/or 3) you have deprived the child of the beneficial experience (for healthy, well-nourished children) of training the immune system and of getting the superior protection given by antibodies created by overcoming the real disease.

    Sensible parents welcome the opportunity for their children to glean all the benefits of going through the relatively mild childhood diseases, even flu, hep-A, and pertussis, naturally. They think long and hard before permitting their child to get any vaccine. And the vaccine might be a well-judged decision: tetanus, for example, or yellow fever before traveling to Brazil these days. But they HAVE to do so knowing that they are taking a calculated risk, which might backfire. And then they’ll spend the rest of their lives regretting what they did.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You still haven’t answered my question. What do you think cause diseases?

  • Cia

    From a physician writing in 1959: “Like previous epidemics, the primary cases have been chiefly in the 5- and 6-year-olds, with secondary cases in their younger siblings…. In the majority of children the whole episode has been well and truly over in a week, from the predromal phase to the disappearance of the rash, and many mothers have remarked, ‘how much good the attack has done their children,’ as they seem so much better after the measles….

    “In this practice measles is considered as a relatively mild and inevitable childhood ailment that is best encountered any time from 3 to 7 years of age. Over the past 10 years there have been few serious complications at any age, and all children have made complete recoveries. As a result of this reasoning no special attempts have been made at prevention even in young infants in whom the disease has not been found to be especially serious….”

    http://newamericannews.com/these-1959-reports-show-measles-was-considered-a-mild-infection/#

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Neither his nephew or your daughter were “made” autistic by vaccines. You just didn’t have the knowledge or experience to recognize the signs she was already showing. You care more about looking for a scapegoat than getting your daughter the help she needs.

    Plus, I’m autistic. Do you think I would be better off dead from an easily preventable disease?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Wrong. Before autism was identified, autistic children were just stuck in sanitariums for their entire lives. Go back far enough, and myths about changelings sound an awful lot like accounts from bigoted parents of autistic children. In a world where no one knew anything about neurology, “fairies stole my child and left a duplicate” was as good an explanation as any.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My grandmother almost died when she got rubella. What you’re advocating is child abuse, plain and simple.

  • cecilia

    I don’t know who you are quoting but anyone who would rather let a child suffer from a horrible disease rather than avoiding the whole experience by getting a vaccine is an awful parent.

  • Cia

    Except that very few of those rendered autistic by vaccine would ever have gotten a serious case of any VPD.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    That’s the whole point of vaccines, to teach the immune system to combat disease without risking developing the disease itself. There is no difference between the antibodies produced by vaccines vs the antibodies produced by getting sick.

    And pertussis? Mild? I think my grandfather would deck you if he were alive to hear that.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My aunt’s near-blindness is attributed to measles. Try again.

    Autism is not caused by brain damage. It is a result of an atypical alignment of neurons that develops prenatally.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    My grandmother lost her oldest sister to measles complications. Try again.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    That “mild” childhood disease killed my grandmother’s oldest sister.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Oh, so you think it’s perfectly fine to wipe out entire populations of people with new diseases.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Measles killed my great aunt and rubella almost killed my maternal grandmother. That doesn’t sound “mild” to me.

    When my grandfather was growing up, a pertussis epidemic killed thousands of people, including two of his younger brothers. I think he might punch someone making the asinine claim that whooping cough is “mild”.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Unvaxxed people develop autism and allergies at the exact same rate as everyone else, you lying bigot.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No one was “rendered autistic” by a vaccine, lying bigot.

    Do you think I would be better of dead than autistic?

  • Cia

    One in 36 children has always been stuck in an asylum for life and no one ever heard of them? Even in ancient farming villages or ancient Rome? Little House on the Prairie? How come no one ever wrote about them or ever said a single word about them? Dr. Kanner wrote in 1943, eight years after the Johns Hopkins compendium of all psychiatric disorders ever seen in children was published, without a single word about anything resembling autism, that it was so strange, so distinctive, that if it had ever existed before that time, someone would have described it, but NO ONE EVER HAD! In North Dakota in 1987, the medical and school records of every single last child in the state were scoured, looking for symptoms or diagnoses of autism or two similar conditions. They found that three in every 10,000 children fell on this spectrum. Then they went back ten years later, in 1997, and did a recount to see if they missed anyone. They found that they had missed ONE child whom they should have counted before. Three in 10,000. And now it’s one in 36.

    Who do you think paid to keep all these millions of children in asylums? Must have still been doing it twenty years ago, since otherwise how to explain that the rate has exploded even in the last twenty years. How old are you? Did you have any cousins way back in the ’90s who were mysteriously spirited away by the Fair Folk? Why are these institutes not still available? What happened to them? Empty, haunted hulks all over the world? Where were/are these asylums? All invisible institutes in the country? Why have there never been any whispers about so and so’s having a “strange” child and that child’s mysteriously disappearing at what three? four? years old, and never being seen or heard of again.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Sounds pretty normal to me.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Shingles is more painful than childbirth or kidney stones. I take my mother’s word for it because she’s had all three. There is no such thing as a “beneficial” disease.

    My mother was also exposed to polio when she was six. If Grandpa had been an anti-vaxxer instead of a reasonable person who wanted to protect his children from the disease that paralyzed his older brother, I probably wouldn’t be here.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    What you call a “mild” disease killed two of my grandfather’s younger brothers along with thousands of others.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, the Hib vaccine does not cause peanut allergies, lying bigot. I swear blaming vaccines for everything under the sun is religion for anti-vax bigots.

  • Cia

    One person’s experience counts as nothing. I had measles with no
    sequelae. I got a tetanus booster that paralyzed both arms starting the
    same day and was later diagnosed with sometimes-paralyzing MS. My
    newborn was given the hep-B vaccine at midnight the day she was born
    without my knowledge or permission, and she reacted with encephalitic
    screaming syndrome for four days and nights. She was saying two words by
    18 months, delayed but progressing, until she got the DTaP at that
    time, it erased her only words and she was diagnosed with autism two
    months later. Now 19, on SSI and Medicaid, going bonkers waiting for a
    Medicaid waiver for an ACT pre-employment program. For the first time,
    there’s a waiting list for it. Because of the tsunami of young autistic
    adults aging out of school, but because certain parties have so much
    invested in denying their existence and numbers, there’s nothing there
    for them.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You are a lying bigot. A recent multinational study of millions of children found that autism has nothing to do with vaccines. That’s a much bigger sample size than your precious Saint Wakefield’s twelve that left him rightfully disgraced for academic fraud.

    Before autism was formerly identified, people with it were just locked in mental hospitals, often lobotomized. Before we had mental hospitals, they were accused of being fairies impersonating the “real” child that was kidnapped.

  • Cia

    So my MS is attributed to vaccines (merc-ry pois-ning). My daughter’s
    autis- and bow-l disease are attributed to vac-ine rea-tions. I believe
    that your aunt’s eyesight was damaged by m-asles, but taking vitamin A
    protects the eyes from being damaged. I’m sorry that your
    aunt or her parents didn’t know that so that they could have given her
    two doses of vitamin A and spared the loss of her vision. It is still
    the case that of the many people my age and older that I have known, ALL
    had m-asles growing up, and none was dama-ed by it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    That’s because congenital rubella syndrome is one of the very few external factors known to increase the risk of developing autism.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Vaccines are designed to stimulate antibody production without having to expose anyone to a potentially fatal disease.

  • Cia

    Why didn’t you mention her when you mentioned the aunt with vision loss from m—? You try again. Why not go for all your cousins dying from chickenp-x?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Read something outside your echo chamber for a change, lying bigot.

    Your daughter should be taken away from you. You obviously care more about finding a scapegoat than you do about making sure she is properly cared for with a condition she was born with.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Different claims, different facts that disprove your lies.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You claim that one person’s experience counts as nothing, yet all you have is claims about your personal experience.

    And once again, your daughter was autistic before she was even born. It’s hardcoded into her neurology. You’re just looking for a scapegoat because she’s not the perfect gerber baby you envisioned. I know because I’m autistic too, and I find that preferable to being dead from an easily preventable disease.

  • Cia

    Have you looked at the website Said no mother ever? Thousands of testimonials from parents who made the vaccine choice and ruined their children’s lives. What horrible disease are you thinking of? There ARE some horrible diseases, but have you seen even a few examples of horrible vaccine reactions? You’ve got to evaluate the risks and benefits on both sides very carefully. And in most cases that means refusing the vaccines.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    What Dr. Kanner describes is only the absolute most extreme form of autism. We understand now that it is a neurological condition that exists on a spectrum. Some people are affected more severely than others.

  • Cia

    You were talking about personal experience of bad outcomes from measles. It would have been logical to cite both your claimed bad outcomes in your original comment. Are you saving more bad outcomes up your sleeve to spring on us tomorrow?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    That depends, are you saving more bigoted lies to spring on us tomorrow?

  • Cia

    That’s right. And your problem with my statements would be….?

  • Cia

    The point is what we should do to prevent children from becoming auti-tic. It is a very bad thing to be. Locked up for life with little to no ability to use language to communicate. Locked out of life essentially. If you have autism, it is at the verbal Asper-er’s end. Most au-ists are never able to use language, never able to repair the language circuits in their brains broken by the vac-ine encephal-tis. Now get over yourself and think about those more severely impaired than you are.

  • Cia

    See the comment I made about this earlier. You are about to have the honor of being my first blockee. Go….!

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Autism is present before a child is born. You can’t prevent it. Now stop spreading lies and focus on doing what’s best for your child instead of looking for a scapegoat.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You are a lying bigot looking for a scapegoat for why your daughter isn’t the perfect gerber baby you wanted. I’m glad my mother is nothing like you.

  • Cia

    Gee, vaccine encephalitis is now damaging the brains of fourteen percent of our children, one in 36 with autism and one in ten with ADHD, one in twenty with a seizure disorder and one in six with a learning disability. And sometimes it’s fatal. Lyla Belkin died at five weeks old from an encephalitic reaction to the hep-B vaccine.

  • se habla espol

    Since all three of your claims are false, take your pick.
    1. Manufacturers are liable for improper manufacture, such as contamination.
    2. Any vaccines that are contaminated are (da da!) the liability of the manufacturer, but any that slips through will be caught by the CDC’s oversight.
    3. The oversight is performed by the CDC, both during manufacture and after sale and use.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, your MS is not attributed to vaccines. Neither is the autism that was hardcoded into your daughter’s neurology before she was born. Stop looking for a scapegoat and deal with reality.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    None of those things are caused by vaccines. Stop looking for a scapegoat for why you didn’t get a perfect gerber baby.

  • Cia

    Wow, that’s the exact same reply DR gave five years ago, down to reporting the Incredible Hulk! Has your cheat sheet gotten torn and stained over the years that you can’t make out the words Turn into the Incredible Hulk? Just turning into hulk?

  • se habla espol

    Any lives that are affected by vaccines or diseases are significant. Luckily, there are so few of them from vaccines.

  • Cia

    lll

  • tomonthebay

    Cia is JPN (just plain nuts).

  • Cia

    not blank

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Your entire argument rests on the idea that your daughter would be better of dead than autistic, even in the face of literally hundreds of studies disproving that link because anti-vax bigots like you have turned the debunked autism link into your religion.

    Your daughter was born with a neurological disorder instead of coming out as a perfect gerber baby. Deal with it.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Only as long as it lasts for less than four hours.

  • se habla espol

    Herd immunity has worked everywhere, both in reducing cases and even in eliminating diseases like rinderpest and smallpox.

  • se habla espol

    So you prefer lying, particularly about those who aren’t here to defend themselves, to mere swearing at you about those lies? Sounds pretty snowflaky to me.

  • Mary

    Many have lost their children to vaccine injuries and vaccine deaths. Try again.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Prove that they were caused by vaccines and not just people looking for a scapegoat.

  • Mary

    Show that science

  • Mary

    Oh Stop BSing

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • Mary

    WHERE is the science to back that up?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    There have literally been hundreds of studies debunking the vaccine-autism myth because you anti-vax bigots keep harping on it. It’s your religion at this point.

  • Mary

    You need to read more accurate information instead of disinformation . Try emulating your colorful diverse name.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only people spreading misinformation are the anti-vax bigots who think autistic people are better off dead.

  • Mary

    So now medical doctors with PHD’s are not qualified as your sources of “medical info” are? LOL

  • Mary

    That is why scientists in their peer reviewed journals discuss how surprised they are that high antibodies subjects still get the disease they are vaxxed for? … and low subjects do not??? … and that they believe there is more to immunity than the immune system known? … and how is it you do not know that live vaccines do cause the diseases ? – that is written in their inserts! OBVIOUSLY you have not read any.

  • Mary

    And you are more interested in insulting and name calling and gaslighting people than finding truth.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Stop lying, bigot.

  • Mary

    Plain bull BECAUSE they have not tested vaccines to investigate any reports of vaccine injuries, so you lie. Simple.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • Mary

    Do you have indisputable proof that vaccines do NOT cause Autism? The renown virologist Dr Plotkin, who created many vaccines DID NOT EITHER in his sworn court testimony.

  • Mary

    Easy. Just look at their inserts. Where did you get that 100% from. Lol

  • Brian

    The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious that vaccines don’t cause autism. It’s not that complicated.

  • Brian

    If they lie (which is exactly what they’re doing), then they definitely aren’t qualified.

  • Brian

    Which vaccine inserts are you referring to? I have every single one of them, but I think you don’t understand them yourself.

  • Brian

    I work with many people on the spectrum (part of your “one in 36”). They’re all high functioning, productive, successful, and essentially the exact opposite of how you disgustingly describe them.

  • Mary

    1. the way this compensation system works is that it is not a legal system to begin with. They operate outside of our Judicial system… outside of normal procedures which is unconstitutional to begin with, and which lawyers themselves call a “Kangaroo Court” run and appointed with “Philadelphia lawyers”. So they can say whatever comes out their a–s. This court is a replacement for true judicial review. And it was made that way as a loophole in law to compensate for giving pharma total immunity to vaccine injury lawsuits, which they blackmailed Congress to be given, and to pacify those suing for injury. The only facts about this court are the witnesses, the victims, and the medical reports. 2. https://ecf.cofc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/show_public_doc?2013vv0611-73-0 plenty of medical science supporting the cause of SIDS being ALSO vaccines – no one had to argue anything, the scientific medical evidence proved itself. If you show the wound is bleeding, then the wound is bleeding – no argument or burden is needed. lol

  • Mike Stevens

    Not plain nuts, but macadamia with chocolate sprinkles.

  • Mike Stevens

    No, the disease was “beneficial”… they didn’t get cancer.
    Seriously, that poster is unhinged.

  • Mike Stevens

    Do you have indisputable proof that a chocolate teapot is NOT in orbit around the sun?
    I suppose if you don’t, then it must be true!

  • Mike Stevens

    “plenty of medical science supporting the cause of SIDS being ALSO vaccines.”
    Really? So why did a metanalysis of research studies on the association find that the unvaccinated are twice as likely to die from SIDS?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342

  • Mike Stevens

    Science has looked into the association between vaccines and SIDS.
    …Guess what?
    Vaccination HALVES the rate of SIDS.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342

  • Mike Stevens

    “They operate outside of our Judicial system… outside of normal procedures which is unconstitutional to begin with, and which lawyers themselves call a “Kangaroo Court” run and appointed with “Philadelphia lawyers”. So they can say whatever comes out their a–s.”

    Yet bizarrely, when on the single occasion one of these unconstitutional kangaroo court officials talking out of his a** says that (according to you, anyway) that a child died of SIDS from a vaccine, you immediately believe him? How does that work then?

  • Wayne Duncan

    Oh, like Merck?

    Concealed evidence of increased cardiovascular risk with Vioxx. 50,000-100,000 deaths. $5 billion settlement. Too bad for Merck they didnt have a liability shield for Vioxx.

    Falsified effectiveness data for the mumps component of MMR. Claimed 95+% when real number was 85-88%.

    Lied to clinical trials participants in Gardasil trials. Told them the “control” was a saline placebo when it was actually AAHS in the same concentration as in the vaccine.

    Yet, those of us who dare question the current US vaccine schedule (most us were pro-vax until we saw our child experience an adverse reaction to vaccines) are endangering the public safety? Nationwide panic manufactured over 1,100 measles cases with ZERO deaths. Polio still mandated when there has not been a wild virus case of polio in US in 40 years. Hepatitis B vaccine mandated at birth for all US infants when less than 1% of the mothers are Hep B positive.

    So, help me understand. Exactly who is spreading misinformation?

  • Alexander Porter

    Do try to make some sense.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Yeah, and based on your reply to me in an earlier post, that was nearly 100
    years ago before widespread adoption of clean drinking water, flush toilets/sewers, improved nutrition, and better overall living conditions

    .The Questionable Contribution Of Medical Measures to the Decline Of Mortality in the United States in the 20th Century John B.McKinlay and Sonia McKinlay, 1977
    http://www.columbia.edu/itc/hs/pubhealth/rosner/g8965/client_edit/readings/week_2/mckinlay.pdf

  • RainbowPhoenix

    None of those things are relevant to the transmission vectors of measles or rubella.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Article is inaccurate. Measles mortality rate, based on actual cases (not “reported”) in 1960, before the measles vaccine, was 1 in 10,000, down 98% from early 20th century. The reduction in mortality was due to improved living conditions (clean water, waste disposal, nutrition etc) not a vaccine which didn’t even exist.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Complete and unbelievable male bovine fecal matter. It is true that there is a genetic component to autism, but it is not a genetic disorder. That would be cystic fibrosis or Huntington’s disease.

    And you can shove your “antivaxxers hate autistic people” up the same place you get most of your posts, without K-Y.

    One of my two most favorite people in the world is my severely autistic 23 year old daughter. She was NOT born that way, she was developing normally until her MMR at 18 months. After that she screamed for days in agonizing pain, ran a 104 degree fever, and started to regress.

  • Wayne Duncan

    They are very relevant to surviving.

  • Wayne Duncan
  • Wayne Duncan

    And when was that?

  • Wayne Duncan

    No. That’s your specialty.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Nope. The Church Of the Holy Needle is your religion.

  • Wayne Duncan

    No. It’s not.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Work on your reading comprehension. That’s not at all what Cia said. She just made an accurate observation on how diseases affect naive populations.

  • Wayne Duncan

    No, Cia didn’t say that. D’Monique made that inaccurate assertion.

  • Wayne Duncan

    No, that would be you needing to do the research.

    1. You can sue a drug company for an injury by a non-vaccine drug, but you can’t sue the same company for a vaccine injury. As originally enacted, the 1986 NCVIA allowed for civil action, but required filing in the VICP (Vaccine Court) first. The Vaccine Injury Table in the original act of Congress was significantly modified by the HHS Secretary in the mid-1990s making it much more difficult to receive compensation. What was intended as a non-adversarial program to compensate kids who had been injured has become very adversarial.

    2. You actually got this one mostly correct. VAERS is a voluntary reporting system.

    3. The fee assessed with each vaccine dose is defined in the act as a tax. Unlike the Obamacare penalty which SCOTUS falsely called a tax.

    4. Doesn’t prove your claim at all. The stated intent of the act to compensate children who were injured was hijacked by HHS changing the rules and by the Justice Department aggressively contesting injury claims.

    5. That would be the Supreme Court Of the United States. See Bruesewitz vs Wyeth 562 US 223. The SCOUTUS decision uses the phrase “unavoidably unsafe” 29 times.

    So you got 1 out 5 right. That’s a failing grade indicating your complete lack of understanding.

  • 24CaratHooligan

    I suspect you’re confusing smallpox with the Black Death. The village of Eyam closed it’s doors during the 17th century outbreak, stopping the disease from progressing further along that particular vector. The last outbreak in the UK was in the 1960s, conicidentally a few miles away from where I now live which is why I’m the only one of my siblings to be vaccinated against smallpox. I was born 7 years after that outbreak.

  • Raging Bee

    You are. And it’s harming innocent people.

  • Raging Bee

    …we saw our child experience an adverse reaction to vaccines…

    Ever talk to someone whose child experienced an adverse reaction to measles? You’ll find more such people to talk to now that your malicious propaganda has caused a drop-off in vaccinations. And trust me, measles is far more likely to cause an adverse reaction than any vaccine.

  • Raging Bee

    Take your hysteria and shove it back where it came from. The connection between vaccines and autism has been repeatedly disproven. Just because you WANT someone to blame for autism, doesn’t automagically mean you’re blaming the right people.

    Also, many of the kids who become autistic were showing some signs of it BEFORE they got vaccinated.

  • Wayne Duncan

    What was false or inaccurate in my post? Every single thing I said about Merck is verifiable fact.

  • Raging Bee

    “One person’s experience counts as nothing,” says the hypocrite who keeps on insisting her experience counts.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Why should I trust you, about measles or anything else? Your side is the one with malicious propaganda supplied by BigPharma/FeralGov/LameStreamMedia.

  • Wayne Duncan

    My daughter wasn’t. You apparently believe your own bullsh!t that the connection between autism and vaccines has been disproven. Manipulated “studies” of MMR and thimerosal where the data was repeatedly altered to eliminate the association are not proof.

    You should change your screen name you hide behind to “Raging BS.” It would be far more accurate. In the meantime, here’s a remedy for what ails you.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/00eb8f232d45b9f8136ff1b3d906ebc924c01239e7cea176b45d804747661d26.jpg

  • Raging Bee

    So in other words, you’re insisting we all listen to your story while maliciously ignoring everyone else’s. Go 69fuck yourself.

  • S bean

    liar

  • S bean

    so the virus is hanging out in water.

    I don’t think you understand the definition of “eradicated”. (it’s in the link I provided)

    plus, once a large group of people are vaccinated they – as a group – are protected from infection.

    Would I like to see India have cleaner water? You bet. But that’s a different problem requiring others to deal with. The sooner the better.

    Right now, most people in India are protected because of the vaccine. If the virus can’t find a host it’s going to die off. That’s the entire point of vaccines.

  • tomonthebay

    Yes, that is an accurate description of cia’s claims (and yours).

  • Wayne Duncan

    Vaxbots, like “Social Just Us” Wh0res, always project their psychosis.

    Were you there when my daughter ran a 104 degree fever and screamed in pain for days after the MMR? No.

    Can you point to a single double blind placebo controlled study of the current vaccine schedule that shows it is safe? No.

    Get in touch with Raging BS. There should be enough medication there for both of you.

  • cecilia

    my dear, cute little stories is NOT how science works.
    I need repeatable, Verifiable evidence done using stringent experimental techniques. That’s all I care about. It’s why I know vaccines work because there has been a century of evidence proving how effective they are.

    The risk of vaccine injury is ONE in a million. You are more likely to be hit with lightening.

    And, as I posted a link elsewhere on this page, children with pre-existing illnesses are more likely to react badly to vaccines. That means you really need to have a serious consultation with a doctor – not a fake holistic wacko – but a REAL doctor about your child’s health.

    People with healthy immune systems react to a vaccine by creating lots of happy antibodies. Which is exactly what is supposed to happen.

  • cecilia

    more blah blah blah. meaningless drivel with zero evidence.

  • cecilia

    I’m fairly sure Cia doesn’t know the truth in any case.
    I’ve laid it out for all to see.

  • cecilia

    here’s an article with pictures:

    Here’s the visual proof of why vaccines do more good than harm

    and here’s why people dying from measles really doesn’t speak to how awful a disease it is:
    Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis

    sure, SSPE is rare, but why risk that at all?
    The risk of the vaccine is really rare and you miss out on being miserable while you suffer through measles, you miss out on possibly being deaf or blind, you miss out on having your immune system destroyed for up to three years and you miss out on SSPE later in life.

    The vaccine is just a better bet.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    I think I know my own condition better than random strangers on the internet who want to use me as a prop in their anti-science agenda.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, it’s pretty much exactly what she said.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vaxxer bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No they’re not.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’re projecting, like all anti-vax bigots.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Nothing you’ve ever said is verifiable fact.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Yes she was. You just didn’t know what to look for.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection.

  • Cia

    Ask Mike Stevens. We discussed it several years ago, and he put up statistics which indicated that only about 10% of autists were employed full-time, almost half were able to hold down part-time, heavily-supported employment, and half were non-verbal or very low-verbal and were not capable on any level of handling any kind of job. How fortunate for those you work with that they were only minimally brain-damaged by their autism. How unfortunate that most are much more severely damaged and will be totally dependent on the taxpayer for their care when the parents are no longer able to do so. My daughter and I toured several facilities last fall, and our county family support coordinator said that they cost $100,000 a year per autistic person, paid by the state. And that’s separate from SSI and Medicaid. Or employment. We’re waiting for a Medicaid waiver to pay for an ACT pre-employment program for my autistic, vaccine-damaged, autistic daughter, which will cost the taxpayer mega bucks. And there are waiting lists for all of the programs, all the residences, as the number of dependent autistic people (in the wake of the vaccine epidemic which began in 1990) far outstrips currently available housing and supported employment for those motivated and capable. SSI and Medicaid are being overwhelmed by the numbers as well, and there are many articles online about how this must be a big fraud, since there is an absolute tsunami of them, when all the “experts” assure us that there has been no real increase. Congrats on doing your part to keep the truth from the public for as long as possible.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    There have been literally hundreds of studies on the subject because you bigots keep harping on that point despite Saint Wakefield’s study of twelve children being proven as academic fraud.

  • Alexander Porter

    The virus has always been hanging out in water. You know, water that people drink and bathe in every day. So claiming that the virus has been eradicated is a lie.

    There are thousands of pathogens for which there are no vaccine, along with many wild types of polio and measles that vaccines don’t even protect against.

    “Vaccines are safe and effective” – a lie.

    “Vaccines are completely safe and do not cause autism” a lie.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19136031 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3135697/ Those with ASD are now being shown to have a permanent state of inflammation in the brain. What triggers this inflammation? Immune response. Triggering immune response is the entire point of vaccines.

    Ironic that those doing they lying are quick to call others ‘liars’. The biggest liar here is you – to yourself.

  • Cia

    I just reread the first line you wrote, and it made me laugh! I really do like your sense of humor, always have! I must specify: about my obviously wanting you to …, as I see that this comment has been separated from the one to which it was a reply.

  • Cia

    I LOVE your comments! It’s a HUGE relief that someone sane and ethical is commenting here! Thank you!

  • S bean

    still a liar

  • Cia

    Mine screamed for days after the hep-B vaccine. Textbook example of le cri encéphalique. Have you read When Your Doctor is Wrong: The Hep-B Vaccine and Autism, by Judy Converse? Same thing happened to her newborn son. She testified at congressional safety hearings about it. And mine lost her only two words at 18 months, right after the DTaP booster. Didn’t say another word for another year and a half, but diagnosed with autism two months later, at 20 months. 19 now. On SSI, Medicaid, and we’re waiting on a Medicaid waiver for an ACT pre-employment program. She wants to live away from home, so ching! Another $100,000 a year in taxpayer money for state-supported autism housing. Group homes are illegal now, it would be a two-bedroom apartment with another handicapped resident and 24/7/365 caregiver oversight. Yeah, this is just about to get everyone’s attention. *** them.

  • Cia

    The rest of my comment (I had to split it up and try to post the parts separately when it went into moderation) is still pending. It is apparently not allowed to discuss the VA-RS.

  • Cia

    I just posted links a few weeks ago to studies showing the dramatic decrease in can-er among those who had gotten measles and other febrile childhood diseases in childhood. Really dramatic. On average, a drop of 20% cancer occurrence for every febrile disease, up to a max of about 80% decrease: mea— is the most effective, but the other diseases are as well. M-mps produces a stunning decrease in the occurrence of cervic-l canc-r.

    I could try to post some of them again if you’d like, but I’m sure you’ve seen yourself what a struggle it is to post true information on this issue. Or maybe not. Have you tried to post any true information?

    Now let’s see if I can get this up, or if I have used a cens-red word.

  • Alexander Porter

    Still denying the science clearly demonstrating vaccines causing autism, and lying to yourself and everyone else vaccines aren’t the root cause of the epidemic. I’m not posting anymore science on the topic, it just gets dismissed here. Another ignorant pro-vaxxer added to the block list.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Mumps produces a stunning decrease in the occurrence of cervic-l canc-r.”

    No, I’m not aware of that Cia.
    I am however aware that attenuated Urabe mumps virus (the one used for mumps VACCINATION) is linked to a significant oncolytic effect.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4980112/

    You mention the effect of wild type measles and mumps against cancer – what is clear is that the vaccine strains (ie any live virus) will exert this effect equally well, without the individual having to risk the raft of serious complications produced by the wild type viruses.
    …GO VACCINES!

  • Brian

    You say everything you claim is a verifiable fact?

    How about your claim that they lied about the mumps vaccine effectiveness? I think you’re lying, but am willing to be proven wrong.

    How about your claim that no one died of measles in the USA? I’m not aware of any deaths yet, and hopefully none occur, but it will actually be a few years before we know if anyone dies from the current measles outbreaks (from SSPE).

    How about people being lied to in the Gardasil trials? I would love to see proof that study participants were told the placebo could only be saline.

  • Brian

    If I show you double blind placebo controlled studies of vaccines on the vaccine schedule, would you stop insisting they don’t exist?

  • Cia

    Did you see that Democratic presidential candidate Tulsi Gab-ard is suing *** for censoring her ads? I am SO excited! The (hmm, what words am I allowed to say?) soc-al m-dia companies, although pr-vate, are now widely viewed as the modern equivalent of the publ-c squ-re, where (OK, gotta tread very carefully now…) the Fir-t Am-endment ri-hts guaranteed by the B-ll of Rig-ts, may NOT be infrin-ed. And it is ill-gal to do so! This is going to have ramifications for many different, critically important, issues which are now being WIDELY cens-red!

  • Cia

    Well, so you’re OK with informing people about how dangerous vac-ines are! Just about to turn your coat, are you?

  • Hadassah Weinstein

    Yes. And SIDS and AUTISM just “Happen” at the same time as Vaccine Schedule. Why don’t we change up the Vaccine Schedule by a few months and see if SIDS and AUTISM will just “happen” at the time of the NEW schedule?

  • Cia

    Hmm, good thing you copied part of my comment, which was deleted for unknown reasons, or I might not have remembered what I said in it. It says it was marked as spam, and is no longer visible. Goodness, is it verboten to mention a medical school textbook on the subject of vac-ines causing auto-mmune disease? Now THERE’S a job I wouldn’t want to have. Truth censor. Disablity promoter.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    ‘Proof’ doesn’t exist except for certain mathematical and logical propositions.

    ‘Evidence’, though…there’s righteous sh itloa ds of it for vaccine efficacy… it’s just that YOUR KIND can’t bear to admit it because it would hurt your fragile fee-fees because you’d no longer be able to call yourselves ‘proud truth speakers’ and hang your heads in well-deserved shame.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Fine, Ally-baby…then you’d be fine if I dropped you into an Ebola ward to work as an orderly *without* the Ebola vaccine?

    Give me your info so I can sign you up!

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Few people died of polio before the vaccines.

    So I can infect you with polio and paralyze your diaphragm so that YOU can spend the rest of your life in an iron lung?

    Contact me with your info so we can get this started!

  • Raging Bee

    Go to bed, you 69hypocritical 69moron.

  • Alexander Porter

    Pretending that Ebola carries the same risks as the 16 vaccines administered fro infants in the US might be the dumbest thing in this entire thread. That’s impressive.

  • Mike Stevens

    “Can you point to a single double blind placebo controlled study of the current vaccine schedule that shows it is safe? No.”

    I don’t think you understand what it is you are proposing here (well, maybe you are just crazy enough to not care)…
    …It would be a vaccine equivalent of the unethical and infamous Tuskegee study, where despite there being a good therapy for a disease, people were used in a double blind trial, leaving half of them to sicken or die quite unnecessarily.

    Are you seriously suggesting that you would be able to conduct a double blind placebo controlled trial of the entire childhood vaccine schedule?
    You would need tens of thousands in each arm for starters, and one group would get all the vaccines, and another would get just placebo. Parents nor researchers would know which patient had received vaccine or not.

    Would you enter this trial, Wayne? Your kid might end up in the vaccine arm rather than the placebo arm. Are you happy with that?
    I doubt it, and I also doubt that 99% of rational individuals would want their kid to risk ending up in the placebo arm, either.
    And then there are these reasons.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Stop lying, bigot.

  • Mike Stevens

    They must have a backlog of thousands of posts pending review. Is anyone going to look at them any time this year?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    We are not “brain damaged”, bigot. We possess an atypical alignment of our neurons, which form prior to birth. Not a single thing that you are saying is truthful. You’re just looking for a scapegoat to explain why you didn’t get the perfect gerber baby you imagined. It must be horrible for your daughter to have a mother who hates her so much.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    It is a neurological disorder caused by a certain combination of genes.

    You obviously don’t love your daughter that much since the entire crux of your argument is that she would be better off dead. Also, she was autistic before she was vaccinated. You just didn’t know what to look for.

  • Cia

    My apologies. I meant that natural mumps prevents ovarian cancer, and I just corrected it. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951028/ I’m sure you were aware of that, oder…? I don’t know, do you want, or would it be possible under the current régime, to post even fifty or so of the studies I have on the febrile diseases preventing all manner of cancers in later life?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Neither your daughter nor Converse’s son were “made” autistic after being vaccinated. Both of you are angry that you didn’t get a perfect gerber baby, so now you’re looking for a scapegoat.

    What’s increasingly getting everyone’s attention is actual autistic people speaking up for ourselves about how bigots like you affect our ability to live our lives. If your daughter needs help for anything, it’s for the abuse you’ve been inflicting on her for the past eighteen years. No wonder she wants to live away from you.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You are of course referring to the pro-science camp, rather than you and your fellow anti-vax bigots who think that their autistic children would be better off dead.

  • Cia

    Really? Do you have any studies showing that those who got the MMR have significantly less cancer in later life than those who did not get it? I have such studies on getting the natural diseases, but at a time when about 50% die of cancer eventually (I think it’s more in Europe), it would be interesting to see how they arrived at such a conclusion, if they did in fact do so.

  • Clancy

    It’s up to each individual blogger and their moderators to review the comments for their blog. I am a moderator on Roll to Disbelieve. The blogger, Captain Cassidy, participates in the comments regularly, and we have three additional moderators, including one in Asia. We usually get to flagged comments within an hour. We generally get about 300 comments a day. We have made a commitment to stay on top of everything. But, we’re wearing thin, and don’t know how much longer we can keep it up.

  • Cia

    Please present the evidence on which you base your accusation that he lied. I assume that you know nothing at all about him or what happened to his daughter, and wouldn’t know them from Adam if you saw them. I think it would be safe to say that it is you who are the liar.

  • Mike Stevens

    “What was false or inaccurate in my post? Every single thing I said about Merck is verifiable fact.”
    Well, let’s take this for starters….
    You stated that Merck “falsified effectiveness data for the mumps component of MMR.”
    I take it you have heard the court judgement on the claim that Merck falsified lab results? Can you link us to it please?

  • Wayne Duncan

    That’s it, worthless troll. You claim to be autistic, it so you have Asperger’s Syndrome so severe it makes Sheldon Cooper look like Mother Teresa. You weren’t there to comfort her, you didn’t move across the country and seek out specialists to help her, you didn’t spend your life saving seeking help for her. You are so “smart” that you are an utter fool.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, mumps do not prevent ovarian cancer. They do however cause sterility in men.

  • Mike Stevens

    Oh…
    🙁

    A problem is that when a comment is rejected, the poster tries to resubmit with what they think is the offending word removed, only to find that hasn’t worked, and then they try another one. Wash, rinse, repeat. Then you have half a dozen very similar posts waiting review from the same poster.
    I started to do this but realised I’d be making work for a moderator, so I don’t try it now (or maybe just once)

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Mother Teresa was a fraud, just like you are. Considering how you keep harping on how autism is worse than death, I shudder to think what kind of abuse you classify as “comfort”. Every post you make reveals how much you resent your daughter for not being a perfect gerber baby. How dare she be born with a neurological condition.

  • d’Monique

    Who wrote those inserts?

    I got the 100% RISK from knowing that the chicken pox virus stays in your body forever. It doeasn’t mean that everybody will get shingles, just that the RISK is always there.

  • Cia

    At the beginning of the Tuskeg-e study, antibiotics had not yet been developed. That meant that a group of those black men who were the subjects of the Tus-egee study did not receive the gold-standard syp-ilis medication of the time, which was, and had been for centuries, merc-ry-based medications. And those men fared a LOT better than those who were given the standard medical treatment, which we now know CAUSED GPI, general paresis of the insan-, (what we now know as Alz-eimer’s), basically mercury poisoning.

    A minor point of little interest is that one of the doctors involved in that study was the family physician for my great-grandfather’s family, who gave his son his surname as a middle name, and then HE gave it to his son, my father. Dr. Sea—-

    So your comparison is more apt than you probably realized. Those children spared the vaccines (like those men spared the mercury treatment) would be and were MUCH healthier, with better outcomes, than those subjected to the standard medical recommendations. I’d better copy this now, right out of the stall.

  • Mike Stevens

    A Tuskegee apologist in action.
    Well done, Cia, I never thought I’d see the day when someone tried to suggest what was done was ethical.
    I’m screenshotting your post right now, before it is removed by the mods.

  • Cia

    In fact, I just used a couple of new skills to start a record of such posts. Just the — taught me one two and a half years ago, but I have never used it until now. Thanks, Just. I wasn’t sure it would work, but I think it did. I saw someone posting with that nym last week, are you back?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The words of actual autistic people, rather than that of parents who hate their children for not being “normal”.

  • Mike Stevens

    Shouldn’t you be directing that comment to Cia?

  • Brian

    Do you love your daughter more than you love the debunked conspiracy that MMR causes autism?

  • Mike Stevens

    “Pretending that Ebola carries the same risks as the 16 vaccines administered fro infants in the US might be the dumbest thing in this entire thread.”
    That would indeed be, since the risks of dying from Ebola after exposure completely dwarf the risks of vaccine reactions.

    But he never said that anyway.
    You through with those strawmen yet, or is your supply chain inexhaustible?

  • d’Monique

    Gees, there are several studies that prove no connection between vaccines and autism. Including one funded by anti-vaxxers. Several members here have posted links, go dig them upp.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5bdf1aa095fd39e507720ae06f8a6da15a370cb46a415b9b016bd6ce77573285.jpg

  • Mike Stevens

    I’ve offered you $1000 if you could show me where I said vaccines never cause harm (you failed to collect, proving you lied)
    I now extend that offer to you if you can show where anyone has said that vaccines “WILL NEVER HARM YOU”.
    Go for it, or do you want to skip that, thereby admitting you are a repeat liar.

  • Mike Stevens

    ” “Vaccines are completely safe and do not cause autism” a lie.”

    Well, that is what is called a strawman.
    …You claim someone says something they didn’t say, so you can criticise them for supposedly saying it.

    Of course, you will be able to demonstrate to readers where someone DID indeed say “vaccines are completely safe”, I assume.
    If you do that then you will be shown to be right.
    If you don’t do that, then you are shown to be a liar.

    I predict you won’t show where someone said that (because nobody ever has).
    Why are antivaxers such [terrible] liars?

  • Mike Stevens

    What toxicology question do you want answered?
    Ask away, and I’ll try and solve your state of ignorance on the topic.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Would that make Jenner ‘The First Doctor’?

    😉

  • Clancy

    Also, even if you edit your comment and remove the offending word(s), the comment remains flagged. The resubmitting thing is one reason why we try to stay on top of the flagged comments. Our regulars know to just wait. And some of the words on the list make no sense, so you can’t predict them..

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    I think Ally-baby buys the strawmen in bulk…and is trying to set up a vertical manufacturing model, raw materials to distribution.

  • d’Monique

    Cheat sheet? I don’t use one. I use my own words unlike anti-vaxxers that just love to copy-pasta each other.

    I thought ‘turning into hulk’ was enough. Everybody else knows what I’m talking about.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    By your standards, *water* is unsafe, because they have ICD-9 codes for *drowning*:

    http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/800-999/990-995/994/994.1.htm

  • Mike Stevens

    Where in your study did they look at the risk of ovarian cancer in those who received mumps vaccine compared to uninfected/unvaccinated controls, or the risks in those with wild mumps compared to those who were vaccinated?
    Answer: …Nowhere.

    Showing wild-type mumps virus might reduce the risk of ovarian cancer means absolutely nothing (vis à vis the situation with vaccination) when we know that attenuated vaccine strain live virus has the same oncolytic properties that the wild virus has.

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Why you, you….SOCIALIST, you!!!

    (After all, that’s what YOUR KIND sound like when you complain that companies behaving in their best economic interest are goring your emotional oxen…as opposed to those who opposed companies causing actual DEATH, which YOUR KIND seem to embrace as ‘free enterprise’…)

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Exactly WHEN was Vioxx declared a vaccine?

    Go get your sources…I’ll wait.

  • d’Monique

    You’re saying it yourself. You need to go to VICP first and then appeal against the verdict afterwards. And then you come with excuses as to why people shouldn’t even try.

    As I said in another post (including a link and all): “unavoidably unsafe” means it can’t be made safer than it already is without making it useless.

  • Mary

    Read the link bufon…. read the link I was referring to in my reply for my REPLY TO HER COMMENT . READ.

  • Mike Stevens

    I’ll ask again… Why did a metanalysis of research studies on the association find that the unvaccinated are twice as likely to die from SIDS?
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17400342
    That is science for you, not a court judgement.

  • Mary

    Planes seem more dangerous and likely to fall, but are their falls due to being an airplane?? Neurological diseases have many causes. HUMANS name diseases and categorize them, yet most diseases’s cause or causes are unknown. SIDS could have many causes. These risks are already known to cause Autism : mitochondria mutation, In-vitro fertilization, human DNA/cells, heavy metals….. all CAUSING ONE so-called disease. And human DNA/cells AND heavy metals ARE found in vaccines. Mitochondria mutations can be caused by human DNA/cells found in vaccines, then a second or third or any vaccine thereafter can cause Autism due to the mitochondria mutation.

  • Mary

    Example study discussions on evidence that oppose the antibody theory of vaccines:

  • Mary

    There is nothing on vaccine misinformation here:

    THE VACCINATED GET MUMPS:

  • Mary

    NO MISINFORMATION HERE EITHER :

  • Brian

    The science is clear. The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious that vaccines don’t cause autism.

  • Brian

    Please stop spamming.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Same company. Different product. I’m sure Merck wishes it could get a cushy liability shield for its non-vaccine products but so far the bribes and coercion haven’t been enough. Just wait a few years and you will be seeing the TV ads “If you or your loved one took Keytruda…”

  • Mike Stevens

    None of that provides a coherent explanation.
    More crucially, you gloss over the finding that vaccination is linked to a reduction in SIDS, and is advocated as one way of cutting infant deaths.

    You clearly don’t have any coherent explanation for autism either.
    “Because… evil toxin” doesn’t count as science.

  • Wayne Duncan

    You obviously have serious issues. You lie and project your excrement and insult anyone who disagrees with you. Suggestion for you, which you won’t follow because you are obviously all wise and all knowing, but try reading How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

    And you claim Mother Teresa was a fraud? Have you spent your life caring for the poorest of the poor in the slums of one of the worlds’s largest cities? I didn’t think so.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Fool. Your first link in the compost I responded to was about how to sue a
    pharmaceutical company. I read the link. Not one word about vaccines beacuse the law firm knows it would be a waste of time and effort after SCOTUS slammed the door in Bruesewitz.”

    I made no excuses. That’s your gig.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only issue here is your blatant resentment of your daughter for having the gall to not be “normal”. You lie and project your hatred of autistic people onto everyone else and insult anyone who disagrees with you. Here’s a suggestion, learn to love your daughter for what she is instead of what you wish her to be. That way you won’t have to look for a scapegoat for something she was born with.

    And yes, Mother Teresa was a fraud. The conditions in her so-called “hospitals” were atrocious, the treatment of her patients inhumane, and her own demands utterly hypocritical.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Stop lying, bigot.

  • Cia

    I didn’t say that it looked at the risk of ovarian cancer in those who received mumps vaccine. It was on the greatly reduced occurrence of ovarian cancer in those who had had natural mumps as girls compared to those who had not had mumps. We don’t know that the vaccine has the same oncolytic properties that the wild virus has: as you remember, Aaby’s study showed that those who had had natural measles had greatly reduced all-cause mortality compared to those who had not had measles. Although those who had gotten the vaccine had LOWER mortality than those who had not gotten either natural measles or the vaccine, those who had gotten natural measles had low- ER mortality than those who had only gotten the vaccine. The properties were not identical. Unless a trustworthy study has been done on that specific question, it has not been demonstrated.

  • Cia

    Blocked for vulgarity.

  • Cia

    I didn’t say it was ethical. At that time, they were unaware that the standard medication was devastatingly destructive and ultimately deadly. Just as at this time, I don’t know, maybe there are some doctors unaware of how dangerous what they are doing is. Their intention was certainly unethical: hoping to show how awful the outcome of those untreated for syphilis was, unconcerned about the suffering the subjects would undergo. My point was only the irony of it all. I could go on with the cynicism and cruelty involved, but that is obvious already. Those who trust the standard medical protocol of their time may be acting very unwisely. Especially when the authorities are unwilling to do the most basic comparative studies which might establish safety. Or not.

  • Wayne Duncan

    No, that would be you. You not only, in the lawyer’s phrase, “assume facts not in evidence” but you actually make up lies and insults because you are afraid to to debate the actual issues which are:

    1. Are vaccines both safe and effective?
    2. Who has the right to make medical decisions for children? Their parents, in consultation with their doctor? Or Big Brother?

    I gotta give you one thing. You have the Two Minute Hate down cold.

  • Mary

    That is how much you want to know the truth. The study you keep MISINFORMING was never about a “fraud.” Dr Wakefield’s colleague Dr Wilson IN that study was given back his license and HE CONTINUED TREATING THOSE CHILDREN. It was on a technicality which they resolved. Wakefield should have been given back his. THAT was the fraud – of the medical board. YOU ARE THE TROLL AND BIGOT SPREADING MISINFORMATION.

  • Mary

    And so you have nothing to say about the renown virologist Dr Plotkin’s sworn testimony??? Why do you ignore that scientific point from the RENOWN VIROLOGIST??? Gaslighting and the spread of pharma misinformation is all you know. But thank you for giving me the opportunity to put the truth out there that others reading this will be curious enough to confirm.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You have never posted a single truthful thing this entire time. You just keep posting lie after lie because you hate autistic people.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Saint Wakefield studied a mere twelve children because he wanted to market a measles-only vaccine and needed to do something about the competition. You don’t like to hear the truth because it ruins your excuses for dehumanizing autistic people.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Every post you make about your daughter reveals your resentment that she is not “normal”. Your treatment of her is utterly disgusting and I hope she gets far away from you so she can live her life away from your abuse. You keep making up lies and insults so you can avoid facing the actual issues which are:

    1: Is a living autistic child better than a dead child?
    2: What gives you the right to put other people’s lives in danger just so you can be a special snowflake?

  • Mike Stevens

    I’m having trouble getting my response through. Here is a screenshot.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e1421fdf383e91e8d55c43dec9f7aa9944fe25759d52c5534be9a0d5c279aa59.jpg

  • Cia

    I appreciate the effort you have made to get this up. I also am having a lot of my comments go into moderation, apparently permanently. I split some up and got some comment parts up like that, but some just went back into moderation, leaving me to muse over what tripped the guill-tin-. You’d think in a discussion on vaccines it would be permitted to discuss vaccines. Maybe length? Certain words? A limit on how many comments a day are permitted? Tenacity? Fervor?

    I only ask that parents be well-informed and then accept or reject vaccines as they freely choose. Mumps is such a mild disease, and potentially beneficial, that I personally would never get the vaccine for my child or myself. You are saying that the vaccine has been shown to offer some of these cancer-preventing benefits. It would be interesting to know if the vaccine gives benefits as good as those of the disease, but it still wouldn’t be enough to induce me to get the vaccine. It is often dangerous, though I have not read much specifically about the mumps vaccine given alone. Those boys, men, or their parents when they are children, who are afraid of possible sterility if they get mumps past puberty (and a lot could be discussed regarding that) are and should be free to choose the vaccine, and if they do, maybe they will get some of the cancer-prevention benefits as well.

    You know that natural measles has been shown to reduce leukemia risk. M, m, and r are all mild or relatively mild diseases in children, usually adults as well, and rubella is only dangerous to fetuses. Don’t you ultimately have to let people decide for themselves if they’re unwilling to see how dangerous the vaccines might be if they take them themselves? I know you are against forced vaccination. All people of good will are.

  • Cia

    Upvoted for effort, not for the insults.

  • Wayne Duncan

    You keep using the same words, inappropriately. Does Merck not
    pay enough for you to afford a dictionary?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for anti-vax bigots.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Same delusion but some new words. You’re making progress. Do you even know what the word “bigot” means. Just a hint. It doesn’t mean someone who disagrees with you.

    And you were almost correct. Projection is indeed a sign of mental illness. It is standard operating procedure for vaxbots.

  • Brian

    Hilarious.

    Mary made up a story in an attempt to defend a known fraudster and scam artist.

    Who is this Dr Wilson? That person doesn’t exist anywhere in the study. He certainly isn’t one of the authors.

    Perhaps you were referring to Dr Walker-Smith, who lost his license but then got it back after saying the fraud was all Wakefield’s fault. Is that what you meant?

  • Brian

    You’re saying law firms don’t like taking cases they know they can’t win?

  • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

    Exactly.

    Meaning your attempt to smear a different product is bul lshi t, especially sans evidence, and *particularly* when YOUR KIND are COUNTERfactual.

  • FallsAngel

    That last was just obnoxious, Cia. Presumptuous, aren’t you?

  • FallsAngel

    No, she never will.

  • FallsAngel

    Can this stupid typing, Cia. I had measles as a child and I have a hearing loss. Raise you!

  • FallsAngel

    No, that sounds like you, Cia. You’ve done it before.

  • FallsAngel

    Hey, Cia, look what I just found today: https://n.neurology.org/content/early/2019/07/30/WNL.0000000000008012?fbclid=IwAR0sTehKNgiCBRZFDeYaY39S-bV6YQaNomSxCZnK_G52aITMlntJ2IvZ4y0
    A large case-control study on vaccination as risk factor for multiple sclerosis
    “Conclusions Results of the present study do not reveal vaccination to be a risk factor for MS. On the contrary, they consistently suggest that vaccination is associated with a lower likelihood of being diagnosed with MS within the next 5 years. Whether this is a protective effect needs to be addressed by future studies.”

    Quit lying, Cia!

  • Wayne Duncan

    Merck made false claims to the federal government about its mumps vaccine. Now they are going to have to pay.

    Docketbird.com/court-cases/UNITED-STATES-OF-AMERICA-et-al-v-MERCK-CO/paed-2:2010-cv-04374

    Merck Has Some Explaining To Do Over Its MMR Vaccine Claims
    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/merck-whistleblowers_b_5881914.html

    Merck accused of stonewalling in mumps vaccine antitrust lawsuit
    https://www.reuters.com/article/health-vaccine/merck-accused-of-stonewalling-in-mumps-vaccine-antitrust-lawsuit-idUSL1N0YQ0W820150604

    Why so many college students are coming down with the mumps
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/03/why-so-many-college-students-are-coming-down-mumps

  • Mike Stevens
  • Mike Stevens

    72 people died from measles last year in Europe. …I guess they didn’t have flushing toilets?

    Introduction of vaccination against measles has reduced measles cases significantly, and cut measles mortality in 3rd world countries despite there still being widespread malnutrition and poor access to clean water and flushing toilets. Globally this is what happened:
    “During 2000–2017, the number of measles cases reported worldwide decreased 80%, from 853,479 in 2000 to 173,330 in 2017, and measles incidence decreased 83%, from 145 to 25 cases per million population.
    During this period, estimated measles deaths decreased 80%, from 545,174 (CI = 368,236–913,226) in 2000 to 109,638 (CI = 46,123–376,619) in 2017.”

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6747a6.htm?s_cid=mm6747a6_w
    Did someone suddenly build them all flushing toilets?

    Tell us, how is it that countries with poor hygiene like India and those in Africa are able to eradicate polio?

  • Mike Stevens

    I am pleased you now accept everything that Plotkin says about vaccines as being true, Mary.
    Welcome to enlightenment. Now you can join me in helping promote vaccines as being highly effective and desirable, with huge benefits that greatly outweigh their risks.
    Congratulations!

  • Mike Stevens

    …More of your unhinged antivaccine lies, propaganda and misinformation…
    PS: stop replying to yourself.

  • Mike Stevens

    That’s true, but only because there aren’t any people “rendered autistic by vaccines”!

  • Mike Stevens

    Cia has difficulty distinguishing those with full blown classic autism and those who are on the spectrum.
    She likes to deliberately conflate the two.
    She has also claimed elsewhere that 1 in 2 children are suffering severe neurological impairment from vaccines, and hat very vaccinated child gets encephalitis from the vaccine.

  • Mike Stevens

    I note how highly selective you are at accepting evidence I present, Cia.
    You happily ignore 99.99% of the facts I present, dismissing them out of hand, but pathologically cling on to an occasional comment I make if you can misrepresent to make it seem I agree with you.
    Get this straight: I don’t agree with you, you are a liar.

  • john tucci

    Total. B.S.

  • Mike Stevens

    What caused the pain?

  • d’Monique

    Exactly HOW dangerous are vaccines? Provide proof of that and we are fine with changing our “one in a million risk”.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Someone who hates autistic people so much that you outright think we would be better of dead definitely meets the definition of a bigot. You only “care” about us so long as you can use us for your predatory misinformation campaign. Your reaction when we speak for ourselves reveals your true colors.

  • d’Monique

    Cia blocked you. I guess she couldn’t answer your questions.

  • d’Monique

    I fail to see any vulgarity in her post.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Sadly, Rainbow, you are a deluded fool. And a liar. You are completely unable to debate a topic so you fling insults.

    You cannot point to any statement of mine supporting your slanderous statement that people with autism would be better off dead. Never said that, never thought that, and you can’t back it up because it is an atrocious lie.

    We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars seeking help for our daughter. We tried applied behavioral analysis (Lovaas therapy), Tomatis listening therapy, secretin infusion therapy, gluten-free/casein free organic diet, intravenous immune globulin, hyperbaric oxygen therapy. All of it helped a little, none of it made a lasting difference.

    We traveled to Wisconsin, Illinois, Texas, New York, and Florida to see specialists. I don’t regret a single dime we invested in her, I just wish she had had a better response so she could live independently and pursue her dreams.

    You are so self-centered and lacking in empathy that I hope you are being honest about being on the spectrum. The alternative is that you are just an @$$hole.

  • d’Monique

    Yup, my fault, bad wording. I meant that the chickenpox virus stays in the body among everybody that had chicken pox, creating a risk for shingles.

  • d’Monique
  • Wayne Duncan

    What is BS, since you consider yourself an expert?

    Are cystic fibrosis and Huntington’s not genetic disorders?

    If autism were a purely genetic disorder, identical twins would have a 100% correlation. If one identical twin had autism, the other would as well. That’s not what the data show.

    Is it BS that my daughter was developing normally for her first year and a half until she got the MMR? She did run a 104 fever, she did scream in pain for days, she did start to regress and lost most of the language she had developed to that point. It’s in the medical record at her pediatrician’s office. I was there, I saw it.

    You just come swooping in and dump your “BS” comment.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Agreed.

  • How did you react to the mercury in the MMR, Cia?

  • Cia? I’m part of the 1 in 36. Or would be, if I was American.

  • I am certainly too young to remember that as anything other than a picture in a history book. But…if the generation above you managed to take the one for smallpox which was far riskier than modern vaccines so that future generations wouldn’t have to risk either the disease or the vaccine then shouldn’t mine be ready to do the same for measles?

  • Now, Now, Mike if bouncedancer does have any information then (s)he should certainly be given the chance to share.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only delusions I see are the ones you cling to so you can seek out a scapegoat for why our daughter wasn’t a perfect gerber baby.

    I can point to literally every dehumanizing statement you’ve made about the daughter you claim to love so much. The idea that autism is worse than death is at the very core of the anti-vax movement. Your whole given reason for wanting children to be exposed to potentially deadly diseases is that you don’t want them to be autistic.

    Pretty much everything you’ve listed in your attempts to “help” your daughter sound like quackery and straight-up child abuse, in addition to a fundamental misunderstanding of what autism is.

    All that time and money spent, and you chose to spend it on quacks who are more interested in encouraging your desire for a scapegoat instead of simply loving your daughter as she is.

    The lack of empathy is entirely yours. You have repeatedly made it clear that your “care” for anyone on the autism spectrum only extends to your ability to use us as props in your predatory misinformation campaigns about how autism is worse than death. The moment we decide to speak for ourselves you reveal how little you really think of us. I hope your daughter finds a way to live her life free from your abuse.

  • S bean

    because autism is genetic.
    There’s been 100’s of studies proving that vaccines have NOTHING to do with autism.

    Ergo, he’s a liar.

  • Cia

    As you know, length is one factor which determines whether comments are automatically detected and deleted as spam, despite the fact that this issue is complex, with many important nuances which should be taken into consideration. That concept appears to be beyond the ken…

    If I split my comments into shorter segments, they stand a somewhat greater chance of staying up. I can’t think of another way to do it other than replying to myself.

  • cecilia

    yes, I saw her comment (threat?)

    it’s what cowards do.

  • Sophotroph

    Man, anti-vax shills are as bad as Jordan Peterson fans. Maybe we can start a thread that insults both of them, then just sneak off to watch TV while they fight each other.

  • FallsAngel

    She had me blocked under her old account (ciaparker2). I presume she’s blocked me with this new one as well.

  • FallsAngel

    Cia, we’ve been through this before. The immune system is not like a muscle. It does not need to be “taught” how to work any more than your cardiac system needs to be taught by say, having a heart attack.

    Sensible parents do not listen to people with no medical education and even less common sense advocate for nonsense.

  • Judy Thompson

    Measles and pertussis ARE, still. That’s why we has the vaccines, Cia. To keep them from spreading once again.
    Polio is indeed found in developed countries, you might want to check your stats on that. The biggest danger is relaxing one’s guard over things we no longer perceive as “dangerous” since someone or many someones entering this country could spread all those no longer “dangerous” diseases everywhere they go, unknowingly.
    This is not a closed country, with 12 foot razor wire barricades to keep out people from ‘undeveloped” countries. Shoot, we’re the ones who gave them measles and mumps in the first place.

    Which war are you referring to? After “the War”? WWII? VietNam, Korea, Iraq?

  • Wayne Duncan

    She was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease by a board certified pediatric gastroenterologist at New York University and diagnosis was confirmed by other board certified pediatric gastroenterologists at Marshfield Clinic and the University of Wisconsin. Getting to the diagnosis and treatment wa very difficult as she doesn’t have the expressive language to tell you where it hurts.

    I don’t know if you have children. Based on your judgmental attitude, I hope not. I have made exactly ZERO dehumanizing statements about my daughter. I love her with every fiber of my being, but to accept that you would have to take your focus off of yourself for just a second. What you describe as autism sounds like what used to be called geeky or nerdy, possibly Asperger Syndrome. And that’s fine. It was probably hard going through school being different from other “neurotypical” kids, and that sucks. But unless you have suffered physical pain so severe that you literally hit yourself in the head so hard that your hair fell out, you have no idea what her life has been like. Her physical pain is less severe now that we have found treatment for her that lessens the severity.

    In any case, you will likely twist this response into some bullsh!t about how I hate people with autism. Don’t bother. I have no more time to waste on you.

  • sabelmouse

    very silly!

  • cecilia

    they do love making alts. And it’s always so obvious.
    They have no idea how funny they are.

  • Mike Stevens

    She’s had 5 days to share her information.
    She hasn’t, so it’s safe to conclude the didn’t have any, and she was lying.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Crohn’s Disease does not cause autism so I have no idea why you think that is relevant.

    90% of your posts contain something dehumanizing about your daughter, starting with your need to find a scapegoat for why she wasn’t a perfect gerber baby. Your whole argument can literally be summed up as, “children should be exposed to potentially deadly diseases so they won’t be autistic.” You might as well just say that the only good autistic person is a dead autistic person.

    What I describe as autism is a neurological condition that results in certain individuals having an unusual alignment of neurons. It is not an issue of “brain damage”. It is not a result of “poison” or “toxins”. A person’s neuron pathways develop before they’re born. Not getting your daughter vaccinated would not have done anything to prevent her from being autistic, but to accept that you would have to take the focus off yourself for a second and think about what’s best for your daughter, instead of just flailing around looking for a scapegoat to explain why she isn’t “normal”.

    I don’t have to “twist” anything you say. Your own dehumanizing statements about your daughter and your reaction any time an autistic person speaks for themselves instead of happily being a prop for your misinformation campaigns says it all.

  • Mike Stevens

    Then your reply won’t be visible to people unless they are actively scanning through all comments on a thread.
    They might do that on the first day or so when there are only a few dozen comments, but none tends to do that several days in, unless someone is deliberately tracking your responses or following you.

    Post several split comments if you must, but I suggest you still do so in response to the poster you are responding to.

  • Mary

    So if you cannot prove a “negative”, on that coin’s flip side, he cannot as well say vaccines do not cause Autism since none have been scientifically investigated. Hellooooooo….? Which is what he did confirm in testimony.

    When I worked for physicians they called themselves scientists FIRST – as taught by medical school. And yes, and what you just quoted (or not) is exactly what Plotkin believes he is doing as a “physician” – and yet he is NOT. He is NOT taking “the whole body of scientific information into consideration” when making a recommendation to a child…. because the scientific evidence when parents report PRESENTATIONS FOR INVESTIGATION are being DISMISSED…. unethically, unscientifically, un-integrally, and above all…. UNCONSCIENCIOUSLY!

    Plotkin removes OBSERVATIONS, the foundation of science, removes CORRELATION, the impetus for further study, removes INVESTIGATION of those…. the PURPOSE OF SCIENCE….. in his claim of “whole body of scientific information.”

    You cannot remove INVESTIGATION from science and call yourself either – physician nor scientist!!
    You can NOT say you have a whole body of information when you DISMISS information!

    The irrefutable scientific and physician FACT remains: NO Scientific GOLD Standard studies -THE protocol for authentic, genuine scientific study – have been performed for the safety of existing vaccines nor new vaccines, nor for their new technical procedures nor for novel vaccines, nor for their ingredients.

    Show me at the very least a recent gold scientific standard, double-blind inert placebo safety study on thousands of human-subjects using human diploid cells…. or recombinant DNA.

    You will NOT find it.

    SHOW ME.

    Do not come to me with the “ethical” excuse. You are already breaching ethics as you are injecting HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of children with UNTESTED vaccines. That is more than 72 ethical breaches times 100s of millions of children… every day of the calendar year.

  • Mary

    The only one talking about “death” and “dehumanizing ” and “lack of empathy” is you. Perhaps it is due to your claimed “autistically aligned neurons” that make you use insults as your debate and twist others’ replies and that unfortunately makes YOU the un-empathic person, and I am so sorry for your circumstance. You should use your energy to get out of your box and be your own scientist and find help in those things that have helped others – or discover your own. Science has not always been right. Study this young man’s perseverance in investigation: https://fox59.com/2019/07/27/he-was-forced-to-drop-out-of-college-and-bedridden-for-11-years-then-he-invented-a-surgery-and-cured-himself/

  • Mary

    Oh… now peer reviewed science is spamming Lol ….feel so sorry for you Brian

  • Mary

    Tell that to all the mainstream newscasters reporting children deaths on National TV. Will that be propaganda too – to report facts?
    And how do you interpret VACCINATED CHILDREN as having Anti-vax parents? Do you hear your stupidity?? If they were anti-vax HOW did their children get vaccinated??? I guess they learned how to prematurely walk and drive themselves to their pediatricians. LOL

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think autistic people are better off dead.

  • Mary

    Got any proof of the times you fell and cut your knee? Got any proof of all the times your mama healed your cold or flu without taking you to the doctor?? Got any proof of your mama keeping you alive your entire infancy without medical help?? Did she drown you while bathing you?… Did she starve you?? Did she leave you alone on the sofa to fall and hit your soft infant head?? Did pediatricians visit your home to make sure your mom was saving you from yourself everyday and every hour of the day as an infant and toddler…. and thereafter Did a pediatrician have to surveil your mama’s every step to tell her when she needed to take you to the doctors office… when it was an emergency or not…. when you needed medication? Did your pediatrician do all that FOR her? I bet you would have been dead at some point in your life if it were NOT FOR YOUR MAMA”S OBSERVATIONS AND WISDOM – NOT your doctor’s.

  • Mary

    So YOU were never “brand spanking new” ever on Disqus? LOL Keep the comedy up Brian, you are really too funny!

  • Cia

    That’s true, and I’ve thought of that. It would put them out of order, which they often wind up being anyway. Just now, the whole page zipped away just as I was about to continue writing, and I had to get back here by scratch. Too many comments? Sab-tage? I don’t know, I’m not good at understanding the technical or political aspects of this. It was clever of you to get replies up by screen shot, I wouldn’t know how to do that, and I’m not sure why it worked. And then it’s also the case that some parties have the ability to delete replies to them. One the other day had a technique which I’ve encountered a few times, of (figuratively) spraying anti-reply spray under her comment, so that my replies just bounced off. I was able to get a few up anyway by putting them in reply to the commenter above her.

    And I know you’ll believe me when I say that certain parties HAVE tracked my responses or are following me with hostile intent.

    However, I’ll be glad to put my replies to you under a commment by you, even though they may be out of order. I have something else I’d like to ask you about. I’m going to put it in another comment in reply to this same one.

  • Mary

    And it is called ” SCIENTIFIC GOLD STANDARD” – Double-blind INERT placebo studies on more than 5,000 human subjects. NEVER performed for any vaccines. Yet they inject us with untested vaccines that keep changing and being added to. Show me these studies for human diploid cell vaccines or recombinant vaccines.

  • Cia

    I have wanted to ask you about yellow fever for a long time. Have you ever seen a patient with yellow fever? And (absolutely no hostile intent here), why do you think Dr. Martin Gore died last January (?) from a yellow fever vaccine? Because of his age? I’ve read different opinions about when it becomes risky to do so because of age, I’ve read 55, 60, and 65. Was he working on a yellow fever study or going to travel in Africa? He was 67, I think, not retired yet?

    I don’t know if you read my vehement defense of people living in areas with active yellow fever getting the vaccine for it, after careful consideration of the risks on both sides. I became quite angry with people saying how it was usually a mild disease, one person’s son was going to study in Peru, and the program required the yellow fever vaccine, which he saw no reason to take. I’m being totally honest here, I could have said Brazil, which would be a horse of a different color, although Peru has areas of tropical rain forest as well.

    I was appalled to learn about outbreaks (epidemics?) in recent years in West Africa and Brazil, I hadn’t known anything about them. My next (serious) question is whether you think yellow fever will occur in Central America, the Yucatán, and Florida in the near future. I don’t think anyone should compel the vaccine, but I think it would be reasonable to require people entering one country after having left one with active yellow fever to either show proof of vaccination or undergo quarantine.

    I respect your expertise on this issue. On other issues, you know that it would be dishonorable on my part to not say what I have seen and learned.

  • Mary

    Inert placebo like saline IS the Gold Standard Science.. Mumps MMR vaccine was already proven ineffective. Look at my posts with peer reviewed studies. Look up CDC scientist William Thompson’s declaration of CDC MMR fraud and his 10,000 pages of documents of that and studies handed to congressman Bill Posey

  • Mary

    “Download The CDC Autism/MMR Files Released By Dr. William Thompson
    The official complaint letters sent to the CDC …..
    For all 10,000 CDC files that were delivered to Congressman Bill Posey by the CDC whistleblower Dr. William Thompson click below. These files contain not only the official data from the 2004 study [CDC falsified] but also the omitted data before the CDC deviated from their analysis plan.”

  • Mary

    Look over CDC scientists William Thompson’s verified facts

  • Mary

    What about medical procedures causing the death and suffering of innocent children? THAT is why the Nuremberg trials were about and the resulting International Law of Informed Consent for any and all medical procedures, and additional National and domestic laws of informed consent which States are breaching.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Stop posting lies.

  • Mary

    You cannot take away the self-protection of individual lives because YOU have a compromised immune system – most likely caused by vaccines! You cannot force another individual to waive his rights to avoid life risks a procedure is inherent with. So it becomes my life or yours. No one has the right to make me choose your life over my own.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No one is taking away your “self-protection”. Nothing, anywhere, gives you the right to put other people’s lives in danger just because you want to be a special snowflake.

    By the way, the damage to my brother’s immune system was caused by viral meningitis. It has nothing to do with the vaccines that everyone in my family has gotten since Grandpa’s younger brothers were among the thousands of people killed in a whooping cough epidemic.

    You’ve also given yet another example of how blaming anything and everything on vaccines is your religion.

  • Raging Bee

    Lots of irrelevant ranting…I guess that means you have nothing.

  • Alexander Porter

    Here we go with another person who thinks bad memes are science! Do I have to write this all in crayon for you to understand…?! AUTISM IS HALLMARKED BY PERMANENT BRAIN INFLAMMATION https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=autism+permanent+brain+inflammation

    VACCINES CAUSE INFLAMMATORY IMMUNE RESPONSES – THAT’S WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED TO DO AND THEY DO IT VERY WELL.

    ALL VACCINE INSERTS CONTAIN ADVERSE EFFECTS WARNINGS, ALL VACCINES CAUSE FEVER, ENCEPHALITIS, AND HYPERIMMUNE RESPONSES.

    So the only question remains: who understands science less?! Vaccine injury deniers or flat-earthers? You decide!

  • Cia

    I hadn’t read about the Tuskegee study for years and made a few mistakes in what I said about it last night. I read about it before going to bed. It was not a study to compare outcomes in the treated and untreated. Investigators had always known that neurological involvement in cases of syphilis were almost unknown in black men (and native Americans) (about 2%) as opposed to white men (about 8%). They thought that maybe there were biological differences (choosing my words carefully here), and that maybe black men suffered more from cardiovascular events caused by syphilis. So the study was just to observe untreated black men with syphilis over a lifetime. There was a smaller control group of men without syphilis.

    My main point continues to be true. The real reason for GPI or tabes dorsalis (dementia and paralysis) turned out not to be from syphilis but from the mercury treatment. Iatrogenic. I’m glad I didn’t say mercury ointment last night, which was used in other places and times, because it turned out that at that time in the US, mercury and arsenic injections were the treatment of choice. Eventually most of the Tuskegee subjects (who were never told they had syphilis, but just “bad blood,” so were denied the right to informed consent), got mercury treatment anyway (having figured out on their own that they had syphilis), but not as much as people able to easily afford it did. And they didn’t get GPI. Another issue is that there was no free medical care for anyone at that time, and for many of us in the US, not now either. My grandfather (same one) used to make house calls and take a chicken as payment, but that’s just not an option anymore.

    And I will say again that yes, it was immoral and unethical. Especially after 1950, when investigators made the deliberate choice to NOT offer penicillin treatment, which would have cured it. I’d have to think for a few minutes about how to phrase the immorality of not giving a deadly treatment which you believe to be a beneficial one. After a few seconds of thought, it was incorrect to say “especially,” but I’m going to leave it at that.

    Both my father and grandfather were named for Dr. Searcy years before the study began in 1932. Dr. Searcy must have been quite advanced in years when it started, but I”d have to look him up to be sure (I don’t g— anything anymore). There is no reason to be ashamed of that.

  • Are you really promoting the scam that improved hygiene and sanitation got rid of the vaccine-preventable diseases?

    The incidence of each vaccine-preventable disease has decreased after the introduction of the vaccine for that disease.

    If sanitation and improved hygiene were the reason, they would all decrease at the same rate and as sanitation and hygiene improved – and they would not return unless sanitation and/or hygiene significantly decreased. In cases of natural disasters, which dramatically affected sanitation and hygiene, you would see the rates of all of the vaccine-preventable illnesses return.

    That does not happen.

    Where are the outbreaks of vaccine-preventable illnesses?

    The outbreaks are in the anti-vax communities.

    The anti-vax communities are obsessed with sanitation and hygiene and do a good job of making sure that levels of sanitation and hygiene are high, but anti-vaxers are the vaccine-preventable disease spreaders.

    India completed a full 5 years as a “polio-free nation” on January 13, 2016.1 It was a remarkable feat considering the odds against achieving this status. The Global Polio Eradication Initiative (GPEI) considered India to be the most difficult region of the world to eliminate wild polio virus (WPV) transmission and then maintain that status for 5 years. Significantly, India borders on Pakistan, which is still experiencing intense WPV circulation.2

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27590898

    The full text is available for free from Pediatrics at the following link:

    https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/138/4/e20160461

    .

  • And your evidence of the autism epidemic?

  • Mike Stevens

    Vaccines don’t cause “compromised immune systems”.
    Medical science has established that beyond doubt.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Shame you haven’t posted any peer reviewed science.

  • shay simmons

    Well, they probably had the same tailor!

  • Brian

    William Thompson himself said the hoax promoted by “vaxxed” isn’t even true.

  • Alexander Porter

    Pediatricians aren’t scientists. Most are not trained in toxicology – many have never had a course on neurology or immunology. They also take payouts for administering vaccines. They aren’t experts on vaccines. Period.

    Outbreaks cannot be certainly traced to originating in vaccinated or unvaccinated each time for certain.

    Here are two outbreaks from fully vaccinated communities: (there are dozens more, but I get moderated any time I post more than two:

    https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/health/24-cases-of-the-mumps-confirmed-at-the-university-of-florida/67-2631e0fd-87ab-4e7b-b786-70cb8394a15f

    https://taskandpurpose.com/uss-fort-mchenry-mumps-outbreak?fbclid=IwAR3cD9vm0zyMlkrm16fwjB7sGCNtO_7BvzKQHGd2GgvBzu_tmAujOsZWtTw

    Truth suppression is MO#1 because of the financial liability shitstorm that would ensue once it becomes common knowledge that yes, vaccines are destroying our younger generation. Careers would be destroyed and deniers and liars would be held accountable by the public.

  • Brian

    The polio vaccine had
    1) double-blind studies, with
    2) saline placebo, performed with
    3) over 5000 human subjects.

    In fact, the trials had hundreds of thousands of human subjects, so it’s obvious that you are a liar.

  • d’Monique

    Vaccines are tested, even by anti-vaxxers. There are tons of studies done but you all refuse to accept them. (Including the one funded by anti-vaxxers for some reason.)
    https://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/testing-vaccines-anti-vaccine-myth-debunking/

    Please explain to us all how a double-blind study would look like to make you anti-vaxxers happy???

    I love that you used the number 72. I guess you mean the anti-vaxx myth of 72 doses/vaccines US children DON’T get by the age of 18.

    https://vaxopedia.org/2018/07/15/do-kids-really-get-72-doses-of-vaccines/

  • Alexander Porter

    What? So your bad meme was good enough for you to post for a correlation (or whatever it was you were going for) but not good enough to show a rise in autism increase?

    Is this guy for real…?

  • You are not addressing what I wrote, but using non-medical sources to claim that you know more about vaccines than doctors and scientists.

    If what you claim is true (it isn’t), you should be able to provide some valid evidence to support your claim.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aac89044c172c59f80358e7585c8ef8155ec4cdd89039910042ce4f13d1ab01f.jpg

  • Alexander Porter

    A non-medical source doesn’t mean it isn’t valid. Scientists aren’t doctors and vice
    versa, but I’m not surprised you don’t know the difference.

    Ironically speaking of validity, your meme isn’t based on any referenced data. Stop using
    them in a legitimate discussion, they are for Facebook. They’re garbage and they crush your credibility.

  • shay simmons
  • You are an anti-vaxer who doesn’t have any medical, or scientific, sources for your claims.

    No surprise.

    Ironically speaking of validity, your meme isn’t based on any referenced data.

    Most of the information in the chart I posted is from one of the highest quality medical sources available, but an anti-vaxer wouldn’t know that.

    Historical Comparisons of Morbidity and Mortality for Vaccine-Preventable Diseases in the United States

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/209448

    .

  • tomonthebay

    Do you ever not lie or are you just completely delusional.

  • Cia

    Blocking you again.

  • Brian

    Copy/Pasting from conspiracy blogs is not peer-reviewed science, liar.

  • Cia

    No, I’ve never said 50%. I said about 15% the other day, including autism, ADHD, seizure disorders, and learning disorders. I’ve said that about half suffer allergic/autoimmune disease from vaccines. Since there’s a lot of overlap, you can’t just add fifty and fifteen.

    I will remind you that it is you who said maybe three years ago that only 10% of autists ever became independent, and around half were able to work part-time (heavily supported). And a half were not even able to work part-time.

    And I will remind you that they are constantly juggling the definitions of autism and what shoud be included on the spectrum. They have moved Asperger’s on and off the spectrum. The bottom line is that there has been a huge explosion of seriously disabled children who cannot perform in what used to be considered a normal way in school, work, social, or really just life situations. Getting an apartment, cutting the grass or hiring someone to cut the grass, getting a driver’s license, filing a tax return. On and on.

    I talked to my daughter’s former therapist this morning and she said she was dumbfounded when she just read new figures for the rates of children on Medicaid in our state now. It has gone from 43% to 50% of all children in the state in just this past year. And, as we learned last year when I filed for Medicaid (and SSI) for C., they have made it a lot harder to get Medicaid, much more stringent requirements. I think I said the other day that there are many articles online on how it must be fraud, that if there is not a real increase in autism, a lot of people are putting on a really good show. I asked L if it were because of poverty or disability, and she didn’t know. And I don’t know either. I’ve read that unemployment is very low now.

    We had to go to one psychologist to apply for SSI and a different one for Medicaid. I was a little surprised, I was prepared for battle, of course, when each of them IMMEDIATELY agreed with me when I told them about her v- reactions. And they IMMEDIATELY recommended her to get them. It took a YEAR to get Medicaid (applied last May, saw the psychologist in September, approved in April).

    I can say that a large percentage of children suffer neurological reactions from vaccines, beyond the disabilities I mentioned. I was reading the other day about how aluminum causes dyslexia, strabismus, and a crooked smile. Crooked smiles didn’t use to occur. C has a crooked smile in addition to everything else. 15% with the disabilities I mentioned, PLUS an undetermined number with problems caused by vaccine ingredients and/or just plain vaccine encephalitis. Many say that ALL vaccinated people suffered at least a slight degree of encephalitis. Hard to tell, when no one has looked at that.

  • Wayne Duncan

    If you had actually read any of my posts on this or any other thread, I was talking about the decrease in mortality.. It is irrefutable, documented fact that infectious disease mortality declined by 95-98% in the first half of the 20th Century before the widespread adoption of any vaccine except smallpox. Even polio deaths had dropped by half to three quarters before the vaccine.

    So if you want thank someone for the dramatic decline in deaths from infectious disease, thank Ignas Semmelweis, or Joseph Lister, or John Snow. Or you can just thank your local plumber.

  • Cia

    Blocked.

  • Mike Stevens

    Warning! …multiple antivaxer diversionary tropes in action!
    [Vaccines are not directly responsible for the historical fall in mortality from infection, therefore vaccines don’t work and are useless!]

    I see several fallacies being deployed in a single comment, Wayne.
    They include the Nirvana fallacy, and a flaming strawman the size of a house.

  • FallsAngel

    Snort!

  • Mike Stevens

    Paediatricians spend a large proportion of their prolonged specialist training time on infectious diseases, epidemiology, immunology and vaccines.
    They certainly hold more status as experts on vaccines than virtually all your so called vaccine experts that grift for the dark side (who are mostly lacking in any medical training [Bigtree, RF Kennedy etc], or who are little more than qu4cks with no relevant expertise in any of those specialist areas [Humphries etc]).

    You also are labouring under the misconception that an outbreak of infection in a near-fully vaccinated population or community represents some kind of vaccine fail, when the opposite is true….

    “U.S. military personnel aboard the USS Fort McHenry, a Whidbey Island-class dock landing ship carrying Marines with the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit, began falling ill and were diagnosed with viral parotitis shortly after the ship departed Mayport Naval Station in Florida in mid-December. The Navy later clarified that affected personnel appeared to be suffering from a probable case of the mumps.
    By early April, the number of affected service members had risen to 28, roughly 4% of the 703 people on board.
    Tell us if you can, sunshine… if the 703 people confined together onboard this ship for 4 months were all unvaccinated, how many of them do you think would have caught this very infectious disease following its introduction?

    Answer: …Probably as many as 703.
    All you have done is highlight a near-perfect natural experiment that indicates the efficacy of mumps vaccine in childhood is 96%, even 20-30 years later!

  • Mike Stevens

    “VACCINES CAUSE INFLAMMATORY IMMUNE RESPONSES – THAT’S WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED TO DO AND THEY DO IT VERY WELL.”
    1. Stop shouting.
    2. Vaccines induce an immune response. This is pathophysiologically distinct from “inflammation”, but as you are a non-expert in immunology I forgive you your ignorance on the difference.
    3. Diseases like measles, pneumonia and meningitis cause inflammation… that’s what they are designed to do and they do it very well.
    4. Vaccines prevent these infections.
    5. If autism is caused by something triggering an inflammatory response, then autism would be caused by infections, and vaccines would help prevent autism.

  • tomonthebay

    Oh boo hoo. That’s ok. Anyone else following your threads will see you continually called out for your repeated lies.

  • Mike Stevens

    “AUTISM IS HALLMARKED BY PERMANENT BRAIN INFLAMMATION.”

    1. Please stop shouting.
    2. Have you noticed that your citations are either oped articles by antivaxers, or that they don’t say what you think they say… like this for instance:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141210073857.htm

    Arking notes that, given the known genetic contributors to autism, inflammation is unlikely to be its root cause. Rather, he says, “This is a downstream consequence of upstream gene mutation.”

  • FallsAngel

    OK, Cia blocked me; I’m crushed. So she’ll never see what I post unless someone else quotes it. That means I don’t have to be concerned with her replying with more and more of her nonsense. Anyway, to go on. . .

    “Polio and diphtheria are no longer found in developed countries. You know that”

    There was a huge epidemic of diphtheria after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It started in Russia and Ukraine, and spread to 12 of the 13 newly independent states. These are developed countries.

    https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/181/Supplement_1/S237/842229

    We’ve been lucky with polio. The most likely way for polio to come back to the Americas, Europe, Australia/New Zealand would be for a kid from a country that still uses OPV to visit while shedding virus and expose a non-vaccinated kid.

    Ed to clarify no polio in any of the Americas.

  • FallsAngel

    Cia probably means Afghanistan, as it’s ongoing.

    Ed to clarify.

  • FallsAngel

    Hate to correct an pro-vaxer, especially one who gives it to Cia, but the only wild polio is in Afghanistan and Pakistan. There is some VAPP in a few countries that still use OPV.

    Measles has entered the US by way of unvaccinated US residents, mostly citizens, traveling to measles-endemic areas, particularly the Philippines, Ukraine and Israel (thought not limited to these), contracting measles there and bringing it back.

  • So if you want thank someone for the dramatic decline in deaths from infectious disease, thank Ignas Semmelweis, or Joseph Lister, or John Snow. Or you can just thank your local plumber.

    And thank vaccines.

    Vaccines save millions of lives every year.

    Anti-vaxers oppose saving millions of lives every year.

    Vaccines are probably the safest and most effective medical intervention available.

    Anti-vaxers oppose the safety and efficacy in medicine.

    .

  • This is still going?

  • Astreja

    Chicken pox, inconsequential? No. It can lead to shingles in later life, which is why I’m in the process of getting vaccinated against it (initial injection a couple of months ago, booster this coming December).

    It can also lead to pneumonia, encephalitis, and in one case reported in the literature, acute cerebellar ataxia.

    And the week I spent in bed with chicken pox was a miserable time indeed that I wouldn’t wish on anyone. (Not even you, Cia, although I am sorely tempted.)

  • Brian

    The unvaccinated develop autism just as often as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious to any thinking person that vaccines don’t cause autism.

  • Mike Stevens

    Please block me too.
    PS: I’ll be blocking you again if you keep up this tidal wave of nonsensical idiocy.

  • Wayne Duncan

    “Vaccines save millions of lives every year.”
    To be charitable, a gross exaggeration. Certainly not even close to accurate in the US.

    “Anti-vaxxers oppose saving millions of lives every year.”
    A bald-faced lie. Vaccine choice advocates
    oppose draconian government mandates for a vaccine schedule that has never been properly tested.

    “Vaccines are probably the safest and most effective medical intervention available.”
    No, that would be hand washing, as originally demonstrated by Dr Ignaz Semmelweis. The 19th century medical establishment destroyed him for his heresy.

    “Anti-vaxxers oppose the safety and efficacy of medicine.”
    Again an inaccurate, deliberately insulting term. And the statement is false as well. We want safe medical interventions, including prescription drugs and vaccines.

    Your laughable claim that vaccines are responsible for the decrease in deaths from infectious disease would be laughable if the victims did not number in the hundreds of thousands. And you don’t care.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You still haven’t gotten around to answering my question about whether you think I would be better off dead.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You’ve never posted a single peer-reviewed document. What is your obsession with INTENTIONALLY EXPOSING CHILDREN TO DEADLY DISEASES?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You mean the deaths that are resulting from the disease outbreaks that have been directly caused by your predatory misinformation campaigns describing how children are better off dead than autistic?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    “hat very vaccinated child gets encephalitis from the vaccine.”

    Even if that asinine argument were true, encephalitis is still obviously the safer route since my father and his siblings had a 6/6 success rate of reaching adulthood, while Grandpa and his siblings only had a 3/6 success rate.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    No, your daughter was not progressing normally. You didn’t have the knowledge to recognize the ways she was deviating.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Bigoted liar.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Why are you see determined to see large numbers of children deliberately exposed to deadly diseases?

  • S bean

    anti-vaxxers deny science.

    you are just too blind to admit it

  • “Vaccines save millions of lives every year.”
    To be charitable, a gross exaggeration. Certainly not even close to accurate in the US.

    Moving the goalposts. You have to limit vaccines to the US in order to not be advocating for killing millions. Your morality is pathetic.

    WHO estimates that at least 10 million deaths were prevented between 2010 and 2015 thanks to vaccinations delivered around the world.

    https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2014/p0424-immunization-program.html

    Will you now claim that the WHO is part of a conspiracy?

    Vaccines are supported by evidence of safety. Anti-vaxers refuse to look at evidence, because anti-vaxers are scientifically illiterate.

    The rest of your comment is also based on distortion, to avoid the obvious – you anti-vaxers oppose saving millions of lives.

    If it helps you to feel better, you anti-vaxers oppose saving hundreds of thousands of lives every year. Gosh, that is so much better – hundreds of thousands adding up to millions of lives every year.

    .

  • d’Monique

    And how do you interpret VACCINATED CHILDREN as having Anti-vax parents? Do you hear your stupidity?? If they were anti-vax HOW did their children get vaccinated???

    There are many ways anti-vaxxers can have vaccinated children.
    1. They vaccinated, their toddler didn’t turn out the perfect little angel the parents hoped for and that turn the parents anti-vaxx.
    2. Only one parent is anti-vaxx, the other isn’t and brings the children to the doc’s office.

    3. Anti-vaxxers lose custody and the children get vaccinated afterwards.

  • There is a slight rise, maybe. But correlation is not causation.

  • 0. You have to show that vaccines cause autism before you worry about how they cause autism.

  • Do you know why they chose Leicester Hospital to be the quarantine place?

  • And (s)he has posted somewhere else in the meantime, right? 😉

  • Cia

    I had chickenpox when I was seven, no big deal. Before the vaccine, there were four million cases a year in the US, with one hundred deaths, fifty in children, fifty in adults. Both the natural disease and the vaccine can caus

  • d’Monique

    Not for long. The anti-vaxxers are getting block-happy.

  • Cia

    Hmm. I was cut off mid-word and unable to continue typing. “can cause shingles in later life, but shingles was very rare before the vaccine because the natural virus in the environment provides a booster effect in all those who had had chickenpox. That’s why the vaccine is not given in the UK. Natural chickenpox is better. Anything can cause pneumonia, and vaccines cause more encephalitis than any disease does. And cerebellar ataxia is something else which can be caused by vaccines. To whichever way you choose to go should not be based on these considerations. Yes, you are less likely to get shingles from the vaccine than from the disease, but many have gotten it from the vaccine.

    I had shingles when my daughter was almost two. That’s how she caught chickenpox. Not a big deal for her either. Then I’ve had shingles, I don’t know, three or four times in the last few years. Extremely painful, and for several weeks. I had a friend who had it for much longer than that, it was almost disabling. Last October I started to get it again, and took the nosode to try to prevent it from going further, and it did! The next day it was completely gone. So that’s the route I’m going to go. I got a vial of the nosode for my friend as well, and will give it to her when I see her. I have no intention of ever getting the shingles vaccine (or any other vaccine).

    I’m glad we both had natural chickenpox and just don’t have to worry about it anymore. The shingles was painful, but still better than the MS and autism we have from vaccine reactions.

  • Judy Thompson

    that was my point, FA: even when this country vaccinated for smallpox, it was still a viable problem in other countries. unvaccinated babies (we weren’t vaccinated until we were of school age) were at risk, still.. And anyone unvaccinated here is at risk from people coming in from elsewhere as long as these diseases exist. So the unvaccinated here, holding their banner high, become the carriers. Cool.
    And it’s my understanding that the vaccines are not 100% effective, which explains why even vaccinated kids are at risk, still.

  • Cia

    Measles and pertussis are relatively mild diseases and beneficial to the
    vast majority of those who get them. The acellular pertussis vaccine is
    extremely ineffective, which is why we have many thousands, sometimes
    tens of thousands, of appropriately vaccinated people getting pertussis
    every year. But no worries, it hasn’t been a dangerous disease in many
    decades. And measles allows girls to protect their future infants,
    improves immune functioning, reduces all-cause mortality in African
    children who recover from it (over 90% of those who get it) by 80%, and
    prevents cancer and many other diseases in later life. I had measles and
    chickenpox as a child, typical cases. Not dangerous. I had pertussis as
    an adult, when my thrice-vaxxed eight-month old caught it at a La Leche
    League meeting and gave it to me. It was alarming, uncomfortable,
    long-lasting, but not dangerous. Then she got the DTaP booster at 18
    months, it erased her only words, and she was diagnosed with autism two
    months later.

  • Cia

    Measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox are extremely valuable diseases
    for children to get. Flu, pertussis, rotavirus, and hep-A are valuable
    as well.

  • Cia

    OK, give me a stat on p-lio in a developed country.

  • Cia

    Two strains of poli-

    have been wiped out by the vaccine. Stupendous! The first type is now

    only found in a few countries, a couple in Afr-ca, I think, maybe

    Nigeria?, and in Pak-stan, probably Afgh-

  • Cia

    I give up. I cannot revise my comment enough to get it out of moderation. Not w m t.

  • Cia

    I’ll bet you I will accept as factual everything (maybe almost everything) of what you have to say about yellow fever. Could you tell me about what I asked? I am genuinely interested.

  • Astreja

    Did you not read what I wrote, Cia? For me, chicken pox was a big deal. I certainly do not want to make matters worse by contracting shingles and/or other neurological sequelae.

  • Cia

    For a few people, it can be very unpleasant, especially if contracted in adulthood. However, my father got it in his early forties, and it wasn’t serious. It’s like many things, there is a gamut. For the vast majority of children, it is mild. For me, it was itchy. My daughter didn’t seem to itch. She had a fever for one day, threw up her lunch that day. The fever

  • FallsAngel

    The last smallpox case in the US was in 1949. We continued to vaccinate for it until 1972. Smallpox vaccine was given in the US at around age 1. Some parents, like mine, did wait until school age for some unfathomable reason. The last known natural case of smallpox was in 1977 in Somalia.

    If the world in 1972 was as “small” as it is today with travel, I doubt the CDC would have discontinued vaccinating until the disease was eradicated. I think we’ll be vaccinating for polio until polio is completely eradicated. JMO.

    Vaccines are not 100%, though some come quite close. OPV is practically 100%. two doses of measles 97%. he unvaccinated are far more likely to contract vaccine-preventable diseases, even those for which the vaccine efficacy is a bit lower, like pertussis (around 85% efficacious). That is the message we should be giving.

    https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/index.html
    https://www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-details/smallpox-vaccine
    https://www.who.int/csr/disease/smallpox/faq/en/

    Ed for formatting

  • Astreja

    How, exactly, do you personally know the effect of chicken pox on “the vast majority of children”?

    And even if you were correct, you have no business even trying to minimize my experiences with the virus. You have no say whatsoever in that matter — ever.

  • FallsAngel

    Harper was not the “lead investigator”. She was a consultant for both Merck and GSK, and she was paid. She describes her job thusly: “she stated that she was the “principal investigator (which) means that I was responsible for assembling a research team to recruit participants, deliver the health care during the study, collect
    biological specimens at the correct time, and retain subjects over the entire time frame of the study.”

    Furthermore: “Although the relevance of her involvement was never an important point except to the anti-vaccine zealots, it was an overstatement to claim she was the “lead researcher.” She was one of many involved in data gathering from
    clinical trials.

    Dr. Harper’s role in the Gardasil clinical trials, as is typical with most pharmaceutical companies, was to manage various aspects of the clinical trial at her institution. That would be everything from making certain that protocols are accurate, that her medical Institutional Review Board approved the trial, that appropriate numbers of patients are enrolled, that placebos and drugs are delivered in a blinded manner to the researchers, and about a few hundred other items.

    There would have been an intentional wall between her, other clinical trial investigators and the companies, GSK and Merck. Moreover, she did not “develop” the drug in any meaningful manner, because her role wasn’t in basic R&D, but
    mostly in clinical trials.”

    There is much more in this article, and Diane Harper is now supportive of HPV vaccine, though she does hold some unorthodox ideas still.

    https://www. skepticalraptor. com/skepticalraptorblog. hp/diane-harper-star-supports-hpv-vaccines/

  • FallsAngel

    Cia, I know you’ve blocked me and won’t see this unless someone quotes me, but I’m flagging your most egregious anti-vaccine posts. I can’t stand for you to be giving out total BS information to unsuspecting parents.

  • FallsAngel

    This “trial” has been going on for about 10 years now. If Merck committed fraud, they should be held accountable. However, till then. . .

  • Cia

    Hmm, you’ve sprayed anti-reply spray under your comment. Not worth my time. I hope

  • Cia

    I block those who use anti-reply spray. Bye!

  • tomonthebay

    Nice lie.

  • Wayne Duncan

    The reason so many still die from measles in Africa is the same reason that thousands used to die from measles in early 20th century America. Lack of clean water, poor nutrition and sanitation, generally bad living conditions. WHO recommends 100,000-200,000 IU for 2 days for measles which significantly reduced mortality rate when followed.
    “The microbe is nothing. The terrain is everything.” L. Pasteur.

  • Mary

    Skepticalraptor?? Really? The raptor of misinformation? You can’t research for yourself? What’s next? Snope the snoop dogs? This is what I said “principle (lead) investigator” and the only mistake on that is the auto spelling which should read “principal.” ….And how did you miss “one of the leading researchers in biomedical science who has spent her life studying vaccines”? Because the raptor didn’t write it? Keep being a somnambulistic follower instead of a truth seeker. Obviously you did not hear her own words in that link, otherwise you would not agree with her being a supporter of HPV, nor did you look at her site. Tsk tsk.

  • Mary

    Its called a mantra – keep repeating those words until you believe them. LOL

  • Mary

    That’s on you, you refuse to look at them.

  • Mary

    Creating conspiracy like you do is not peer-reviewed science.

  • Mary

    Yeah… and that’s why they caught (not) the SV40 cancer that spread to millions of children and one reason for cancer epidemic.

  • Mary

    Poor Brian, he is way behind. Brian… Thompson released his statement and all study records to congressman Posey on the MMR study he was involved with falsifying as instructed by his CDC boss. IT IS AVAILABLE ONLINE FOR YOU TO DOWNLOAD. Get with it!!

  • Mary

    Stop posting lies RP!

  • Mary

    I have and you refuse to read it, repeatedly refuse

  • Mary

    Facebook has the option to be integral – they CHOOSE not to.

  • Mary

    Read vaccine inserts – says they produce autoimmune diseases. Read the peer reviewed studies confirming this. They create greater damage – the ones containing human DNA/cells CAUSE DNA MUTATIONS in the host. Get with it Mike, can’t be babysitting you.

  • Mary

    1. that is not interpreting “antivaxed parents vaccinating their children.” that is another one of your irrational interpretations which is a perfect example of my statement Lol
    2. ok… so they did not have antivax parents – my point. ….so they vaccinated and their child regressed, my point
    3. How many cases is that compared to all other vaxxers whose children become damaged?? PLUS most not repeating vaccines are BECAUSE vaccines injured their children and like loving responsible intelligent parents they are avoiding a repeat. Would you buy the same brand of car seat if it injured your child? I should hope you do not repeat buying ANY product injuring children! But seems you advocate buying defective, children-injuring/killing products for millions of children. So sorry for you.

    Guess what – you lose.

  • Mary

    Yeah….thank you… AND the disease outbreaks and deaths and disabilities caused by vaccines and YOUR misinformation.. Here are a few: (if they are not deleted) THE VACCINATED GET MUMPS:

  • Mary

    more where that came from…. THE VACCNATED GET MEASLES:

  • RainbowPhoenix

    The only person posting misinformation is you.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think autistic people are better off dead.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think autistic people are better off dead.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think autistic people are better off dead from easily preventable diseases.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Thank you for proving my point, bigot..

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think autistic people are better off dead.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Projection is both a sign of mental illness and standard operating procedure for bigots who think autistic people are better off dead from easily preventable diseases.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    You mean the inserts that are only literally every FDA-approved medication and don’t require proof of a causative connection?

  • RainbowPhoenix

    They’re bigots like you who want a scapegoat for why they didn’t get a perfect gerber baby.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Stop posting lies, bigot.

  • d’Monique

    Wow, I’m playing chess with a pigeon.

    Do you believe that every child gets damaged by vaccine?

    I’ve seen countless of screenshots of parents that are asking is anything under the sun is a vaccine injury. Everything from toddler temper tantrums to teen anxiety, from crooked teeth to constipation.

    I’ve also sen countless of screenshots of upset parents that are having panic attacks because parent #2 went and had their child vaccinated. NO regression in sight.

    Any and every product that harms people will get removed from the market. If vaccines really were that dangerous they wouldn’t be given.

  • Rich Brewer

    Says the clown trying to define Amish.

  • Rich Brewer

    LOL

  • Rich Brewer
  • Rich Brewer

    I could’ve written other tech-friendly religions. You might want to brush up on your understanding of the Amish.

  • Rich Brewer

    Proof, not Ivy League Big Pharma bought and paid for shillery.

  • Rich Brewer
  • Rich Brewer

    Thanks for posting that. Proves the MYTH of “herd immunity”. Natural immunity is for life; vaxxer “immunity” is like Bigfoot and Nessie…claimed but never proven.

  • Rich Brewer

    Oh, and your link doesn’t work; just like vaccines. Thanks for playing.

  • Rich Brewer

    How can anyone trust the CDC when they constantly change the definition of what “outbreaks” and “epidemics” are? Remember all BS about ebola and West Nile? Liars change their story to suit their needs; they stray from facts. Why? Bad for bu$ine$$.

  • Rich Brewer

    You’re right. I can’t define what a shill or spam bot is. That’s your job. Sorry for stepping on your toes. Tell Merck I said hello…and rot in hell.

  • Mike Stevens

    Now you are talking “autoimmune “, which is not the same as “immunocompromised”.
    Sheesh! There are huge tomes written about these problems, a college student should be able to discern the difference.
    You just see “immune” and assume every descriptor containing the word means the same thing.
    …a bit like you thinking “haemophilia” and “haemorrhoid” are the same because they contain the word “haem”! (…Maybe you do?)

  • Tiny but fierce

    My my, you’re a touchy one. Thanks for the laugh!

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Stop posting lies.

  • RainbowPhoenix

    Notice she hasn’t responded to the fact that she is completely wrong about what caused the damage to my brother’s immune system?

  • Tiny but fierce

    Ah, projection. That’s always entertaining. I let the Amish define what constitutes being Amish. I just pointed out that you’re trying to do it for them. I have to admit though, the “No true Amish” fallacy you’re throwing around is a new twist on an old fallacy.

  • Deadpool

    Do you think my haemorhoid-philia was caused by vaccines?

  • Mike Stevens

    I’ve been the “principal investigator” in research studies.
    There can be several of these, one for every site where the study is conducted in multi centre studies. At each site there will be several researchers, they are “site investigators”, and the centre’s research is coordinated by the “principal investigator”.

    The entire study will be coordinated by a one “lead investigator”.
    So principal and lead investigators are not the same role.

    Diane Harper quote:
    “I fully support the HPV vaccines. I believe that, in general, they are safe in most women.”

  • Mike Stevens

    Almost certainly! You did get a shot as a child, yes? So anything that has happened since can be blamed on the vaccine!
    You are a “pile-o-phile”

  • sabelmouse

    it leads to shingles due to vaccination.
    a week in bed?
    try 50 years of chronic illness!

  • sabelmouse

    not worth it even though i replied. a sciencey fanatic.

  • Cia

    Even there, as you see, I got cut off mid-sentence. Gee, just imagine, if Tulsi Gabbard wins her lawsuit against G- for censorship, establishing free speech as a con. right even on private Internet sites, the modern equivalent of the public square, what chaos there’s going to be among the sh— and their sponsors.

  • sabelmouse

    hmm

  • Brian

    Nope. Your link is to a nonsensical anti vaccine conspiracy website. Not credible at all.

    If Merck’s Director of Vaccines actually said something you think is worthwhile, then point to the original source, rather than a crackpot one.

  • Brian

    I downloaded it almost five years ago… when the hoax was debunked the first time.

  • Cia

    I thought you’d be interested in this study. MMBI is the same as SSPE, supposedly, it’s supposed to occur in already immunocompromised children, but in this case, the boy is described as having been healthy before getting the MMR. But the interesting thing is that his ultimately fatal, permanent encephalitis was CAUSED by the MMR, and tests showed that he had vaccine-strain measles virus. SSPE seems to have been unknown before the ’60s. The first SSPE registry was started in1968, several years after the measles vaccine was introduced. I think that in rare cases the live measles virus escapes into the wild, so to speak, and that it has been mutated in the process of being prepared to be used in the vaccine, and it can cause the fatal SSPE. In a few cases, SSPE has occurred in vaccinated children, but is more common in those who get natural measles, but I think it is the vaccine-mutated form they get.

    ). “We report a case of measles inclusion body encephalitis occurring in a previously healthy 21-month old boy 8.5 months after MMR vaccination. He had no prior evidence of immunodeficiency and no
    history of measles exposure or clinical disease. ..The nucleotide sequence in the nucleoprotein and fusion gene regions was identical to that of the Moraten and Schwarz vaccine strains…On hospital day 51, the patient died after ventilator support was withdrawn.” A. Bitnum, “MIBE Caused by the Vaccine Strain of Measles Virus,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, vol 29, no 4, Oct 1999, p 855-861.

  • Cia

    All right. I’ll try not to rile you by discussing *** if I reply to you. I found several studies on vaccines causing immune suppression for about a month, but I don’t think you’d want to discuss them.

  • FallsAngel
  • Deadpool

    Oh, this comment is the most frustrating one I’ve read in a while because you’re SO close to the truth… and then you miss.

    “The immune system learns by doing.”

    Correct. This gave me hope.

    “It HAS to learn to combat disease by combatting [sic] disease.”

    Close. So every disease has protein markers that our immune system needs to learn to recognize. (You should have learned this in high school or by watching Magic School Bus.) Once it knows the right markers to look for, antibodies and white blood cells hunt down those codes to eliminate the threat. The problem is this takes time and in the mean time, the diseases get a head start; infecting cells and making us sick.

    This is why vaccines are so valuable: they hone the skills of the immune system for a lifetime of service against the most dangerous diseases we know of. Influenza is problematic as the protein markers for that change so quickly.

    Vaccines are simply weakened or dead disease agents. They are designed to cause an immune response that’s basically the same to the real disease. The only difference is that the chances of side effects are significantly lower with vaccines.

    “If you attempt to prevent the child from ever getting any disease, you have handicapped the system responsible for protecting their lifetime health.”

    No. If you don’t get vaccinated, you handicap the immune system by giving diseases a head start, allowing the disease to get established.

    “And if you do so with vaccines, then you 1) suppress immune function for about a month, in which time a dangerous infection might take hold,…”

    Source? I’ve never heard that from a legitimate journal.

    “2) induce excessive inflammation, which can become either acute (vaccine encephalitis) or chronic (allergic/autoimmune disease),…”

    Again, so close. They HAVE shown that introducing babies to peanuts early drastically reduces the chances of peanut allergies later in life. The hyper-clean movement of trying to protect babies from everything and not letting kids play in and eat dirt probably has increased allergies in the US. Babies’ immune systems can handle a lot more than the last round of baby books led mothers to believe. We could probably move a couple shots up a few months/years instead of spreading them out so much, but I suppose I’ll let the actual scientists who’ve studies such things decide on that.

    “and/or 3) you have deprived the child of the beneficial experience (for healthy, well-nourished children) of training the immune system and of getting the superior protection given by antibodies created by overcoming the real disease.”

    What? Vaccines literally train the immune system (what you claim you want) and create antibodies at less risk than actually getting sick.

  • tomonthebay

    Totally false sabel.

  • Because vaccines do not cause autism, there is no need to change the vaccine schedule “and see.” It’s already been demonstrated, worldwide via testing and studies involving millions of people, that vaccines do not cause autism and vaccination *reduces* occurrence of SIDS. Have a nice day. 🙂 https://www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccine-myths-debunked/

  • d’Monique

    Crayon it is.

  • Hadassah Weinstein

    There are NO Vaccine-Autism studies. There are some studies on MMR-Autism or Thimerosal Studies. And those studies were fraudulent and debunked. To repeat – there has never been a 100% Vaxxed per CDC schedule vs 100% unvaxxed study by CDC – and there never will be. CDC refused requests by congressmen for such a study. WHY?

  • Hadassah Weinstein

    I’m referring to RETROSPECTIVE studies on the children who are anyway unvaxxed so no ethical issues.

  • Come on, Cia, it’s a simple enough question. Any first-or-second-degree relative will do too – that’s a parent, sibling, child, uncle or aunt.

    How did they react to the mercury in the MMR?

  • anne marie hovgaard

    1. The way it works means you don’t actually have to prove you were harmed by the vaccine to get compensation. 2. Scientific knowledge is a result of scientific research, and the research shows that there is no connection. A lot of SIDS deaths were found to be caused by suffocation associated with sleeping face down, and changing recommendations wrt. sleep positions has lead to a dramatic reduction https://www.cdc.gov/sids/data.htm

    There’s also been found a long list of other factors that influence respiratory function & regulation directly or indirectly increasing the risk https://adc.bmj.com/content/102/8/767 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20623341?dopt=Abstract https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1440-1754.1992.tb02729.x Vaccines are not on the list.

  • Though of course, no-one has a crystal ball and we should certainly look at seeing if there’s some sort of test we could develop.

  • (general you throughout)

    And here’s the other thing that a certain type doesn’t seem to get: Eventually, you will pay for someone else’s health.

    It’s not a question of whether you will pay for someone’s healthcare. It’s when you pay for someone else’s healthcare. And the sooner you pay, the better. All the stitch in time stuff…

  • Cia

    Immunity provided by many of the natural diseases is permanent, and always far superior to that sometimes provided by vaccines. Vaccines depress immune function, they often skew immune response to excessive acute inflammation (encephalitis) and/or allergic/autoimmune disease, and deprei

  • Cia

    I started to reply but was blocked mid-sentence from writing more. Censored. Not worth my time.

  • cecilia

    exactly. I know someone who died because he couldn’t afford to regularly see a doctor and dentist. If he lived in Europe, he would be alive today.
    In Europe he would have gotten regular checkups which would have prevented his worsening health.

    It never ceases to amaze me how selfish and stupid some Americans can be on this topic.

  • I’m not even saying they should be selfess.

    I’m pointing out that they will either pay $5000 dollars once for someone E.R visit or like $5 dollars for basic preventative medicine. Multiplied by people.

    Basically, try to be smartly selfish if nothing else.

  • shay simmons
  • cecilia

    I’d LOVE that. The “sciency” part of my brain would love to find out why some people have a robust immune system and then why some people – who “look” healthy but have a less than stellar immune response.

    Sure, I expect variation with any organic body, but WHY and how does it work.

    if humans didn’t waste time and money stupid nonsense like war, etc we would be able to find answers to these and all interesting questions.

  • Deadpool

    Disqus site filters only activate when you hit the “Post” button. Then your comment either goes into moderation or not depending on whether your post includes a word or words on that site’s filter list.

    So either your computer is having issues or you can’t answer my post for… other reasons.

    Probably for the best, I suppose.

  • Cia

    Several times today it’s cut me off in mid-word, and I can’t put a single letter further there or in another comment box. Or, earlier today, when this happened, even on another site. I’m surprised I’m typing along now, but it may not go up.

  • Of course – – you’re actually a vaccine safety advocate.

    I suspect Cia et al will not be so keen though.

  • Ah, more people to follow in the upvotes.

  • Cia

    Another reason is that measles and pertussis evolved themselves to become less virulent pathogens. So on both sides, living conditions and nutrition improved, and the diseases actually got milder than they had been.

  • Wayne Duncan

    Next FallsDownAndCantGetUp will be quoting ZDoggMD

  • cecilia

    they have never been interested in facts and science, sadly

  • Or you know , actual vaccine safety. You’d think vaccine safety advocates would be interested in that.

  • Deadpool

    That’s not censorship, that’s (probably) Disqus’s flawed programming architecture. This conversation is fairly low down a long list of comments. I’ve found that Disqus runs slower and slower (including typing and upvoting) the more comments you load on a particular page. I assume due to excessive RAM utilization.

    I find replying from my own profile eliminates the lag for typing.

  • Mary

    Yes you should stop projecting this mantra

  • Mary

    READ . “one of the leading researchers in biomedical science who has spent her life studying vaccines” and listen to her own words Mike, you can’t take her revelations? Yeah I agree, medical actions are rather corrupt… aren’t they.

  • Mary

    So you resort to projection. Ok. I wore my mineral oil.

  • Mike Stevens </