{"id":1645,"date":"2009-11-21T10:09:00","date_gmt":"2009-11-21T10:09:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure\/"},"modified":"2017-01-24T19:17:46","modified_gmt":"2017-01-25T00:17:46","slug":"because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html","title":{"rendered":"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I&#8217;m Just Not Sure"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men\u2019s group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary in the Apocrypha, from <i>The Thousand Faces of the Virgin Mary <\/i>by George H. Tavard. At the end, I could all but feel the pain of Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli.<\/p>\n<p>We human beings can complicate things so much. Mary, as presented in the four Gospels, is the slightest of characters. After the infancy narratives we hear her say of Jesus at Cana, \u201cDo whatever he tells you,\u201d or words to that effect, and she never speaks again. She\u2019s there at the Cross, she\u2019s there in the upper room. But the most important scene of any biography is not given to us for Mary: her death, where, when, and how.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_dmDaLWNETzg\/Swf9b-mOxjI\/AAAAAAAAAhQ\/4VhM5vnjfP4\/s1600\/IMG_0181.JPG\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" border=\"0\" src=\"https:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_dmDaLWNETzg\/Swf9b-mOxjI\/AAAAAAAAAhQ\/4VhM5vnjfP4\/s320\/IMG_0181.JPG\"><\/a>These matters\u2014and so much more, to judge by this morning\u2019s reading\u2014are given to us by tradition, some of which comes from the Apocrypha or, rather, as Bill (left) referred to it, the Epigrapha. The Apocrypha are the books that the Protestant \u201creformers,\u201d Luther et al, left out of the canon, conveniently to their arguments. The Epigrapha are the books that were never in the canon to begin with, left out by the early Councils that decided the canon. \u00a0 <\/p>\n<p>The names of Mary\u2019s parents, Anna and Joachim? They come not from Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John, but from the Proto-Gospel of James. Tavard calls this Epigraphal book \u201corthodox in doctrine,\u201d but not orthodox enough apparently to be accepted as part of the canon. How about the feast days the Church celebrates to honor Mary\u2014the Presentation, the Assumption, the Immaculate Conception, yes, even the Birth of Mary? None of these are given to us in the Gospels.<\/p>\n<p>I know that I am stating the obvious for many readers, who are far better versed in these things than I am. And before I get over my head in waters where I cannot swim, I\u2019m going to back out and just sit on the beach for a think.<\/p>\n<p>Because when you start diving deep in these waters, considering the many accounts that are not canon and considering the Councils, composed of eminently human bishops, who gathered the canon, you can be overwhelmed with doubt: What do we really know? On whose word do we know it? And did they know it, or only argue, or suppose it? And so on.<\/p>\n<p>I know Ferde will be all over me for this one. His e-mail signature reads: \u201cFerde. If the Catholic Church teaches it, it must be right.\u201d And while I\u2019m not sure about the doctrine of papal infallibility, I can tell you pretty categorically that I do believe in Ferde\u2019s infallibility.<\/p>\n<p>But I am not Ferde, and I am still on the beach, brushing off the sand and shaking my head. What I come back to is the Gospel, to the simple accounts of Mary there, and finally to virtually the only words she ever seems to have said, at least in anyone\u2019s hearing: \u201cDo whatever he tells you.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Christ tells us what to do in the Gospels and nowhere else. Everything else is after the fact. Everything else is canon, deuterocanon, Apocrypha, Epigrapha, orthodoxy, tradition . . . Do I believe that the Holy Spirit guided each and every one of these deliberations? Or do I instead see some merit in the notion of <i>Sola Scriptura, <\/i>held by Luther and the boys?<\/p>\n<p>I gotta tell you, right now, I don\u2019t know. I\u2019m just sitting on the sand (pretty cold here in New England this time of year) and I\u2019m shaking my head.<\/p>\n<p>But I\u2019ll be back at Mass in the morning.<\/p>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/6738513599344023043-3835404557622444315?l=yimcatholic.blogspot.com\" alt=\"\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men\u2019s group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary in the Apocrypha, from The Thousand Faces of the Virgin Mary by George H. Tavard. At the end, I could all but feel the pain of Luther, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":143,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1645","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I&#039;m Just Not Sure<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men&#039;s group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I&#039;m Just Not Sure\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men&#039;s group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Why I Am Catholic\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2009-11-21T10:09:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-01-25T00:17:46+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_dmDaLWNETzg\/Swf9b-mOxjI\/AAAAAAAAAhQ\/4VhM5vnjfP4\/s320\/IMG_0181.JPG\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Webster Bull\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Webster Bull\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html\",\"name\":\"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I'm Just Not Sure\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2009-11-21T10:09:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-01-25T00:17:46+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/b9e15b90318657f7448facc9529d0f79\"},\"description\":\"There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men's group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I&#8217;m Just Not Sure\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/\",\"name\":\"Why I Am Catholic\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/b9e15b90318657f7448facc9529d0f79\",\"name\":\"Webster Bull\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fb246bff84598a72f076cdc78c3c22b?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fb246bff84598a72f076cdc78c3c22b?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Webster Bull\"},\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/author\/websterbull\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I'm Just Not Sure","description":"There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men's group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I'm Just Not Sure","og_description":"There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men's group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html","og_site_name":"Why I Am Catholic","article_published_time":"2009-11-21T10:09:00+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-01-25T00:17:46+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/3.bp.blogspot.com\/_dmDaLWNETzg\/Swf9b-mOxjI\/AAAAAAAAAhQ\/4VhM5vnjfP4\/s320\/IMG_0181.JPG"}],"author":"Webster Bull","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Webster Bull","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html","name":"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I'm Just Not Sure","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#website"},"datePublished":"2009-11-21T10:09:00+00:00","dateModified":"2017-01-25T00:17:46+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/b9e15b90318657f7448facc9529d0f79"},"description":"There really are times when we Catholics give Protestantism a good name. In men's group today, one of our most learned members read from a chapter on Mary","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2009\/11\/because-gosh-sometimes-im-just-not-sure.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Because . . . Gosh, Sometimes I&#8217;m Just Not Sure"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/","name":"Why I Am Catholic","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/b9e15b90318657f7448facc9529d0f79","name":"Webster Bull","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fb246bff84598a72f076cdc78c3c22b?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/3fb246bff84598a72f076cdc78c3c22b?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Webster Bull"},"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/author\/websterbull"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1645","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/143"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1645"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1645\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1645"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1645"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1645"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}