{"id":17228,"date":"2013-09-28T20:47:34","date_gmt":"2013-09-29T01:47:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/?p=17228"},"modified":"2015-05-28T18:43:00","modified_gmt":"2015-05-28T23:43:00","slug":"because-jesus-his-disciples-and-the-old-testament-said-plenty-about-hell","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2013\/09\/because-jesus-his-disciples-and-the-old-testament-said-plenty-about-hell.html","title":{"rendered":"Because Jesus, His Disciples, and the Old Testament, Said Plenty About Hell"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><figure id=\"attachment_17229\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-17229\" style=\"width: 491px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/85\/2013\/09\/Hell.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-17229\" title=\"Hell\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/85\/2013\/09\/Hell-1024x740.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"491\" height=\"355\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-17229\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Anyone know the artist?<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p><p>And once again, it\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2013\/04\/the-1-reason-the-catholic-church-wont-support-same-sex-marriage.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">inconvenient to the spirit of the age<\/a>. But regardless of whether that is the case, the cycle of readings lead us to the passage where Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man in the gospel reading this Sunday.<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>I wonder how much we\u2019ll be hearing about the hell part of the story during the homily?<\/p>\n<p>Most likely, we\u2019ll dwell upon the plight of the poor, or the merciful treatment of Lazarus as he was welcomed into the bosom of Abraham. But the rich guy sees everything from the perspective of the guy sitting on the hot side of the river.<\/p>\n<p>Sure, sure, you don\u2019t believe Hell exists. And if it did, you comfort yourself with highminded ideas about how it\u2019s not a physical place, but more like just a really lonely place, where you just hang out in the quiet. Doing nothing. Forever.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus didn\u2019t cotton to such nonsense, and neither do I.<\/p>\n<p>If you don\u2019t believe the New Testament is true, I reckon you can ignore what follows. Or you can pretend to yourself that the following references to Hell aren\u2019t meant to be taken literally.\u00a0But before you take to that path of mental gymnastics, remember the following handy rule of thumb about the scriptures. Peter Kreeft puts it like so,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>When the biblical author claims he saw something in the external world with his own eyes, or that somone else did and told him, then we are to interpret it literally. On the other hand, when a thing is not visible to the eye, we cannot interpret it literally.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Now Dr. Kreeft is quick to mention that just because something can be interpreted literally in accordance with this rule doesn\u2019t mean that we must believe it. But when it comes to Hell, I\u2019d say consider the source.<\/p>\n<p>Jesus talks about Hell early and often. From the Sermon on the Mount we get the following,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>But I say to you that if you are angry with a brother or sister, you will be liable to judgment; and if you insult a brother or sister, you will be liable to the council; and if you say, \u2018You fool,\u2019 you will be liable to the hell of fire.(Matt 5:22)<\/p>\n<p>If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Matt 5:28)<\/p>\n<p>And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell. (Matt 5:30)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>But Frank, those sound like passages from the Koran, man! Besides, Jesus is exaggerating to make his point to the crowd, right?<\/p>\n<p>Which leads us to the strange case of the next citation from Matthew\u2019s gospel,<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<figure id=\"attachment_17231\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-17231\" style=\"width: 320px\" class=\"wp-caption alignright\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/85\/2013\/09\/jesus-judge.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-17231\" title=\"jesus judge\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/85\/2013\/09\/jesus-judge.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"320\" height=\"240\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-17231\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">If you won\u2019t believe me, who will you believe?<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.(Matt 10:28)<\/p>\n<p>And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades. For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. (Matt 11:23)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Hey lookee there, Hades made its first appearence in the New Testament. Of course, how can a Catholic forget its next mention, eh?<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>And in case some folks missed the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus repeats the following to catch folks up,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and to be thrown into the hell of fire. (Matt 18: 8-9)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Perhaps Jesus was just scaring the common folks. Surely to the learned Pharisees, Sadducees, and priests, he\u2019d tone things down a bit. Right?<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Sounds serious. But wait, there\u2019s more.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Sounds like he has a place in mind to me. What about the other gospel books? What do the eyewitnesses of Jesus\u2019s words have him saying?<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Mark%209:43-48&amp;version=NRSVCE\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Looks like Mark repeats Matthew<\/a>, while kicking it up a notch with Hell being the place \u201cwhere their worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.\u201d Creepy.<\/p>\n<p>Moving on to Luke\u2019s gospel, we find Hades mentioned like it was in Matthew (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Luke+10:15&amp;version=NRSVCE\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Luke 10:15<\/a>) and there is the Matthew 10:28 citation with a slight modification as well,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! (Luke 12:5)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Gulp.<\/p>\n<p>Good news! The gospel reading about hell you\u2019ll hear for the twenty-sixth Sunday in Ordinary Time (tomorrow) never mentions the word \u201chell,\u201d actually. That and it\u2019s a parable so maybe it\u2019s not an eyewitness account afterall. Let\u2019s have a looksee (<em>my emphasis<\/em>).<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Jesus said to the Pharisees:<br>\n\u201cThere was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen<br>\nand dined sumptuously each day.<br>\nAnd lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,<br>\nwho would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps<br>\nthat fell from the rich man\u2019s table.<br>\nDogs even used to come and lick his sores.<br>\nWhen the poor man died,<br>\nhe was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham.<br>\nThe rich man also died and was buried,<br>\n<em>and from the netherworld, where he was in torment<\/em>,<br>\nhe raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off<br>\nand Lazarus at his side.<br>\nAnd he cried out, \u2018Father Abraham, have pity on me.<br>\nSend Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,<\/p>\n<p><em>for I am suffering torment in these flames.<\/em>\u2018<br>\nAbraham replied,<br>\n\u2018My child, remember that you received<br>\nwhat was good during your lifetime<br>\nwhile Lazarus likewise received what was bad;<br>\nbut now he is comforted here, <em>whereas you are tormented<\/em>.<br>\nMoreover, between us and you <em>a great chasm is established<br>\nto prevent anyone from crossing who might wish to go<br>\nfrom our side to yours or from your side to ours.<\/em>\u2019<br>\nHe said, \u2018Then I beg you, father,<br>\nsend him to my father\u2019s house, for I have five brothers,<br>\nso that he may warn them,<br>\nlest they too come <em>to this place of torment<\/em>.\u2019<br>\nBut Abraham replied, \u2018They have Moses and the prophets.<br>\nLet them listen to them.\u2019<br>\nHe said, \u2018Oh no, father Abraham,<br>\nbut if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.\u2019<br>\nThen Abraham said, \u2018If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets,<br>\nneither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.'\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>You know the thing about the parables of Jesus? In order to get their point across, they are usually grounded in the real. You know, the day to day slices of life that us simple folk can remember, bounce them around inside our heads and say \u201cHmmmm. I think I understand.\u201d Ideas like those gleaned from years of hearing readings from Isaiah (33:14) like this one,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The sinners in Zion are afraid;<br>\ntrembling has seized the godless:<br>\n\u201cWho among us can live with the devouring fire?<br>\nWho among us can live with everlasting flames?\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>And from stories handed down <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Baruch%204:30-35&amp;version=NRSVCE\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">from the time of the Babylonian captivity<\/a>. Given all of the times Hades was mentioned in the Old Testament (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/keyword\/?search=hades&amp;searchtype=all&amp;version1=212&amp;language1=en&amp;spanbegin=1&amp;spanend=73\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">22 times between Tobit, Esther, Wisdom, 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Baruch, and Daniel<\/a>), see, folks in Judea had a pretty good idea what was being discussed when Jesus talked about it.<\/p>\n<p>Moving right along, we learn that St. Peter, whom Jesus had called Satan once upon a time, seems to believe that hell is for real. Look no further than the Acts of the Apostles, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Acts%202:20-28&amp;version=NRSVCE\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">where he quotes a Psalm of David<\/a>, and in his second encyclical letter (in one whale of a long sentence).<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of deepest darkness to be kept until the judgment; and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he saved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood on a world of the ungodly; and if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example of what is coming to the ungodly; and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man greatly distressed by the licentiousness of the lawless (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by their lawless deeds that he saw and heard), then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment \u2014especially those who indulge their flesh in depraved lust, and who despise authority.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>He didn\u2019t pull any punches, either, bringing up Sodom, Gemorrah, etc., etc. That reminds me of the time <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2012\/05\/because-jesus-said-plenty-about-marriage.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Jesus said plenty about marriage<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Peter clams up about hell from that point on. But James picks up where he let off.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>And the tongue is a fire. The tongue is placed among our members as a world of iniquity; it stains the whole body, sets on fire the cycle of nature, and is itself set on fire by hell.(James 3:6)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>And then there is the stuff written by the apostle whom Jesus loved, St. John. All is quiet on the subject in his gospel. But when he sets down the things he saw in the Book of Revelation, he made up for lost time, though he too doesn\u2019t mention the word \u201chell\u201d (or places that have been translated to mean hell, e.g. <em>Gehenna<\/em>, or <em>Tartarus<\/em>, etc.) exactly.<\/p>\n<p>In his vision of the Risen Lord, he quotes him as saying,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>I was dead, and see, I am alive forever and ever; and I have the keys of Death and of Hades. (Rev 1:18)<\/p>\n<p>I looked and there was a pale green horse! Its rider\u2019s name was Death, and Hades followed with him; they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, famine, and pestilence, and by the wild animals of the earth. (Rev 6:8)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>When he isn\u2019t mentioning Hades, John seems to have settled on a different descriptive turn of phrase (emphasis mine).<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed in its presence the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the <em>lake of fire that burns with sulfur<\/em>. (Rev. 19:20)<\/p>\n<p>And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the <em>lake of fire and sulfur<\/em>, where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be <em>tormented day and night forever and ever<\/em>. (Rev 20:10)<\/p>\n<p>And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into <em>the lake of fire<\/em>. This is the second death, the lake of fire; and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was <em>thrown into the lake of fire<\/em>. (Rev. 20: 13-15)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Any questions? <a href=\"http:\/\/www.catholic.com\/magazine\/articles\/hell-yes-part-i\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Catholic Answers has more on the subject<\/a>, and Monsignor Pope <a href=\"http:\/\/blog.adw.org\/2013\/09\/the-hell-there-is-a-homily-for-the-26th-sunday-of-the-year\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">has some answers in his homily too<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>As for me and my house, I\u2019ll elaborate further on why beliving in hell makes sense in a later post. In the meantime, remember this tune?<\/p>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Paul McCartney &amp; Wings - Helen Wheels\" width=\"500\" height=\"281\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/x_qdychzbz8?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>And once again, it\u2019s inconvenient to the spirit of the age. But regardless of whether that is the case, the cycle of readings lead us to the passage where Jesus tells the story of Lazarus and the rich man in the gospel reading this Sunday.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":140,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[26,232,36],"tags":[1336,1065,1060,21,657,45,12],"class_list":["post-17228","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-culture","category-learning","category-living","tag-belief","tag-hell","tag-jesus","tag-music","tag-paul-mccartney","tag-scriptures","tag-truth"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Because Jesus, His Disciples, and the Old Testament, Said Plenty About Hell<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"And once again, it&#039;s inconvenient to the spirit of the age. But regardless of whether that is the case, the cycle of readings lead us to the passage where\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2013\/09\/because-jesus-his-disciples-and-the-old-testament-said-plenty-about-hell.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Because Jesus, His Disciples, and the Old Testament, Said Plenty About Hell\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"And once again, it&#039;s inconvenient to the spirit of the age. But regardless of whether that is the case, the cycle of readings lead us to the passage where\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2013\/09\/because-jesus-his-disciples-and-the-old-testament-said-plenty-about-hell.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Why I Am Catholic\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2013-09-29T01:47:34+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2015-05-28T23:43:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/files\/2013\/09\/Hell-1024x740.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Frank Weathers\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Frank Weathers\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"10 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2013\/09\/because-jesus-his-disciples-and-the-old-testament-said-plenty-about-hell.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/2013\/09\/because-jesus-his-disciples-and-the-old-testament-said-plenty-about-hell.html\",\"name\":\"Because Jesus, His Disciples, and the Old Testament, Said Plenty About Hell\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2013-09-29T01:47:34+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2015-05-28T23:43:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/yimcatholic\/#\/schema\/person\/e10b038fe974070cf79eed8a68e30ebc\"},\"description\":\"And once again, it's inconvenient to the spirit of the age. 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