{"id":4472,"date":"2011-11-07T10:47:19","date_gmt":"2011-11-07T16:47:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/theamericanjesus.net\/?p=4472"},"modified":"2011-11-07T10:47:19","modified_gmt":"2011-11-07T16:47:19","slug":"ed-young-you-cant-make-an-argument-scripturally-for-anti-tangible-stuff-oh-really","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/zackhunt\/2011\/11\/ed-young-you-cant-make-an-argument-scripturally-for-anti-tangible-stuff-oh-really\/","title":{"rendered":"Ed Young: &#8220;You Can&#8217;t Make An Argument Scripturally For Anti-Tangible Stuff&#8221;&#8230;.Oh Really?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>According to this video from Ed Young (a clip he posted), \u201cyou can\u2019t make an argument scripturally for anti-tangible stuff\u201d.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=mjjUUlOBwC8\">https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=mjjUUlOBwC8<\/a>\n<\/p><p>Well, nothing but love for Ed Young, but I thought I\u2019d take up the challenge.<\/p>\n<p>We could look at the historical tradition of the church in which countless men and women, not least of all monks, priests, and nuns, lived lives of self-denial in order to be more like Jesus, but since Pastor Young wants to focus on the Bible we can do that.<\/p>\n<p>Where to start?<\/p>\n<p>How about the Psalms, they always have nice things to say. From Psalm 52\u2026.<\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-14712\">1<\/sup>\u00a0Why do you boast of evil, you mighty hero?\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Why do you boast all day long,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0you who are a disgrace in the eyes of God?\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-14713\">2<\/sup>\u00a0You who practice deceit,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0your tongue plots destruction;\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0it is like a sharpened razor.\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-14714\">3<\/sup>\u00a0You love evil rather than good,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0falsehood rather than speaking the truth.<sup>[<a title=\"See footnote c\" href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Psalm+52&amp;version=NIV#fen-NIV-14714c\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">c<\/a>]<\/sup>\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-14715\">4<\/sup>\u00a0You love every harmful word,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0you deceitful tongue!<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-14716\">5<\/sup>\u00a0Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin:\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0He will snatch you up and pluck you from your tent;\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0he will uproot you from the land of the living.\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-14717\">6<\/sup>\u00a0The righteous will see and fear;\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0they will laugh at you, saying,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-14718\">7<\/sup>\u00a0\u201cHere now is the man\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0who did not make God his stronghold\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>but trusted in his great wealth\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0and grew strong by destroying others!\u201d<\/em><\/p>\n<p>The book of Proverbs always has some good nuggets of wisdom, like for example this passage from Proverbs 13:7,<\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-16755\">7<\/sup>\u00a0One person pretends to be rich, yet has nothing;\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0another pretends to be poor, yet has great wealth.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Ecclesiastes can get a bit gloomy sometimes, but it\u2019s honest, which I like. There\u2019s raw honesty like this passage from Ecclesiastes 2,<\/p>\n<p><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-17338\">4<\/sup>\u00a0I undertook great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vineyards.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-17339\">5<\/sup>\u00a0I made gardens and parks and planted all kinds of fruit trees in them.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-17340\">6<\/sup>\u00a0I made reservoirs to water groves of flourishing trees.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-17341\">7<\/sup>\u00a0I bought male and female slaves and had other slaves who were born in my house. I also owned more herds and flocks than anyone in Jerusalem before me.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-17342\">8<\/sup>\u00a0I amassed silver and gold for myself, and the treasure of kings and provinces. I acquired male and female singers, and a harem<sup>[<a title=\"See footnote a\" href=\"http:\/\/www.biblegateway.com\/passage\/?search=Ecclesiastes+2&amp;version=NIV#fen-NIV-17342a\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">a<\/a>]<\/sup>\u00a0as well\u2014the delights of a man\u2019s heart.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-17343\">9<\/sup>\u00a0I became greater by far than anyone in Jerusalem before me. In all this my wisdom stayed with me.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-17344\">10<\/sup>\u00a0I denied myself nothing my eyes desired;\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0I refused my heart no pleasure.\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>My heart took delight in all my labor,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0and this was the reward for all my toil.\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-17345\">11<\/sup>\u00a0Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0and what I had toiled to achieve,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind;\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0nothing was gained under the sun.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Then of course, you\u2019ve got that poor homeless preacher, who despite Ed\u2019s claim wasn\u2019t actually a \u201cmulti-billionare.\u201d This will probably comes as a bit of a shock, but Jesus had lots to say about money and stuff\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s the Beatitudes\u2026.<\/p>\n<p><em>\u00a0\u201cBlessed are you who are poor,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0for yours is the kingdom of God.\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em><sup id=\"en-NIV-25168\">21<\/sup>\u00a0Blessed are you who hunger now,\u00a0<\/em><br>\n<em>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0for you will be satisfied.\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And that other great passage from the Sermon on the Mount about having stuff\u2026<\/p>\n<p><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23302\">19<\/sup>\u00a0\u201cDo not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-23303\">20<\/sup>\u00a0But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-23304\">21<\/sup>\u00a0For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Of course, you can\u2019t forget that infamous encounter with the rich guy\u2026.<\/p>\n<p><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23779\">16<\/sup>\u00a0Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, \u201cTeacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?\u201d \u00a0<\/em><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23780\">17<\/sup>\u00a0\u201cWhy do you ask me about what is good?\u201d\u00a0Jesus replied.\u00a0\u201cThere is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.\u201d\u00a0<\/em><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23781\">18<\/sup>\u00a0\u201cWhich ones?\u201d he inquired.\u00a0<\/em><em>Jesus replied,\u00a0\u201c\u2018You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony,\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-23782\">19<\/sup>\u00a0honor your father and mother,\u2019\u00a0and \u2018love your neighbor as yourself.\u2019\u201d\u00a0<\/em><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23783\">20<\/sup>\u00a0\u201cAll these I have kept,\u201d the young man said. \u201cWhat do I still lack?\u201d\u00a0<\/em><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23784\">21<\/sup>\u00a0Jesus answered,\u00a0\u201cIf you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.\u201d\u00a0<\/em><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-23785\">22<\/sup>\u00a0When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-23786\">23<\/sup>\u00a0Then Jesus said to his disciples,\u00a0\u201cTruly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.<sup id=\"en-NIV-23787\">24<\/sup>\u00a0Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.\u201d\u00a0<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And then there\u2019s that troublesome passage from Acts 4 describing the early church\u2019s thoughts on having stuff:<\/p>\n<p><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-27055\">32<\/sup>\u00a0All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-27056\">33<\/sup>\u00a0With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God\u2019s grace was so powerfully at work in them all\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-27057\">34<\/sup>\u00a0that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-27058\">35<\/sup>\u00a0and put it at the apostles\u2019 feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>Just like Jesus, Paul wasn\u2019t a big fan of stuff either. Here\u2019s his charge to Timothy in his first letter to the young disciple,<\/p>\n<p><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-29795\">6<\/sup>\u00a0But godliness with contentment is great gain.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-29796\">7<\/sup>\u00a0For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-29797\">8<\/sup>\u00a0But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-29798\">9<\/sup>\u00a0Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-29799\">10<\/sup>\u00a0For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>And more thoughts from Paul on the lifestyle of Christians in his letter to the Corinthians\u2026.<\/p>\n<p><em><sup id=\"en-NIV-28902\">3<\/sup>\u00a0We put no stumbling block in anyone\u2019s path, so that our ministry will not be discredited.\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28903\">4<\/sup>\u00a0Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses;\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28904\">5<\/sup>\u00a0in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger;\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28905\">6<\/sup>\u00a0in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love;\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28906\">7<\/sup>\u00a0in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left;\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28907\">8<\/sup>\u00a0through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors;\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28908\">9<\/sup>\u00a0known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed;\u00a0<sup id=\"en-NIV-28909\">10<\/sup>\u00a0sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s plenty of other passages I could list, but this is a blog, not a doctoral thesis.<\/p>\n<p>At the risk of being accused and found guilty of proof texting, please allow me a brief defense.<\/p>\n<p>With the exception of the passage from Proverbs and the section from the Beautitudes I have tried to present each Biblical passage in as much context as the brevity of a blog will allow. The verse from Proverbs is brief because unlike much of the rest of the Bible it is a collection of brief wisdom saying, which in most cases were meant to be \u201cone liners\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Likewise, the Beatitudes were meant to be brief nuggets of truth. The only reason I didn\u2019t include the rest is that I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that most people are familiar with the rest Beatitudes which follow the same tone as the ones mentioned above.<\/p>\n<p>My purpose in listing these passages is not to make a definitive case against Ed Young and say \u201cYou\u2019re wrong and this, this, this, and this verse proves it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Rather, in highlighting passages from both the Old and New Testaments, from wisdom literature, the gospels, and the epistles, I am trying to demonstrate that not only can a case be made against \u201cstuff\u201d, but that the case is not one which can only be made via selective proof-texting. It is made by examining the \u201c<a href=\"http:\/\/theamericanjesus.net\/?p=4312\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">whole sweep of scripture<\/a>\u201c. In doing so, I think we find a narrative which doesn\u2019t seem to look that favorably on accumulating wealth. At least not material wealth.<\/p>\n<p>That being said, are there passages in which God blesses His people tangibly? Absolutely. There\u2019s several of those passages scattered throughout the Bible.<\/p>\n<p>The point I\u2019m trying to make is that Ed isn\u2019t quite on the mark when he says an \u201canti-tangible\u201d stuff case can\u2019t me made from scripture.<\/p>\n<p>It can.<\/p>\n<p>And it should be to keep us from thinking that faith is something that will reward us materially.<\/p>\n<p>After all, how many saints of the church can you think of that died wealthy? Or who lived lives of great material prosperity and comfort?<\/p>\n<p>Now, I do acknowledge and appreciate Pastor Ed\u2019s comments that he does not support the \u201cprosperity gospel\u201d. But it seems like he\u2019s splitting hairs a bit. It seems like he\u2019s saying God doesn\u2019t want everybody to be rich, just some of us. Which I guess could be true. He is God after all and you could find some verses in the Bible to support that argument.<\/p>\n<p>Lucky for Ed, he seems to be one of the people God has chosen to have lots of \u201cstuff\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Grace and peace,<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/theamericanjesus.net\/?s=Zack+Hunt&amp;submit=Submit\" target=\"_blank\" class=\" decorated-link\" rel=\"nofollow\">Zack Hunt<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 \u00a0 According to this video from Ed Young (a clip he posted), \u201cyou can\u2019t make an argument scripturally for anti-tangible stuff\u201d. Well, nothing but love for Ed Young, but I thought I\u2019d take up the challenge. We could look at the historical tradition of the church in which countless men and women, not least [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3437,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4472","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Ed Young: &quot;You Can&#039;t Make An Argument Scripturally For Anti-Tangible Stuff&quot;....Oh Really?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"&nbsp; &nbsp; According to this video from Ed Young (a clip he posted), &quot;you can&#039;t make an argument scripturally for anti-tangible stuff&quot;. 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