Tragedy at Lifest

A sad story from over the weekend: 16-year-old Elizabeth Mohl was killed when she fell from a ride called “Air Glory.” According to WEAU news, that ride “begins by launching two to three people almost 100 feet in the air. Then the riders pull a rip cord, sending them into a freefall glide. For some reason after the cord was pulled, Mohl fell to the ground.”

Ironically, this happened at Lifest, a Christian music festival.

The Washington Post reports that the accident occurred on Saturday at 4:45 p.m. Here’s what happened afterwards:

A prayer service was held at 7 p.m. and the music festival resumed about 7:30 p.m.

That seems rather quick to resume the festivities, but presumably, they didn’t know the extent of the injury.

Mohl died a few hours after the accident.

An announcement about the death was made from a stage just after 9:30 p.m. The music continued but with more mellow worship songs.

United Press International (UPI), whose story was published about 12 hours after The Washington Post’s (12:51 p.m. versus the Post’s 12:42 a.m.), had a different take on it:

Organizers shut down the festival, one of the nation’s largest, for two hours so attendees could pray for the victim, then continued as scheduled the remainder of the weekend.

So was it two hours or 30 minutes?

One Christian who attended the festival had this to say about UPI’s story:

To clarify: The festival did not shut down for two hours. The festival did not simply resume scheduled events, either immediately or after some period of time.

There simply wasn’t much scheduled around that time [after the accident], so to say that the events shut down for two hours is misleading. Perhaps the reporters are trying to paint the image of event organizers “doing the right thing,” but all this does is give me the impression that they were more concerned about image than about what was going on. Artists were up on stage talking about what had happened, and on at least one stage they were soon singing songs of life and of hope; lest you think there were only ‘mellow worship songs’ as reported you might consider checking out Red. Indeed, every artist and speaker I heard, including some while walking between events and eating dinner, took time during and between each event to express love and support for this girl and her family.

One more strange media twist on this story. When CNN initially reported the story, one blogger says there was a strange URL for the page. Not sure what that’s all about…

Anyway, here’s an eyewitness account of what happened:

Brian Childers of Kenosha was in line for the ride and witnessed the accident.

Childers said two people went up in the ride, they pulled the release, and he heard a snapping sound. One person fell, the other stayed swinging in the ride.

“She hit the ground and was not moving at all,” Childers said.

Can you even imagine being the other person who was on that ride right now…?

I’m wondering how people at the event are going to explain this. I’m assuming it was an accident and Mohl just had incredibly awful luck.

But it won’t be reported that way. It would be too brutally honest.

You know God’s name will be invoked in the explanations.

Either people will say this was a part of His plan, or the girl is with God now and that’s a good thing… It’s a normal reaction for many Christians when these types of tragedies occur.

Here’s one example: “It’s just the worst thing that can happen and you never know when god is going to take someone.”

To me, that’s just adding insult to injury. It’s evading the truth. Without the results of the investigation, we don’t know why this happened. Maybe the ride was just not safe, or even worse, maybe this was criminal. But a God did not do this. Let’s admit it was a human mistake.

(Thanks to Bjorn for the link)


[tags]atheist, atheism, Elizabeth Mohl, Air Glory, Lifest, Christian, The Washington Post, United Press International, CNN, Brian Childers, God[/tags]

  • Jen

    Every time this kind of thing happens, I just have to wonder how Christians make this work in their mind, how they can make their god a loving god when he clearly is letting 16 year olds die in horrible, painful ways. The whoe “part of the plan” stuff bothers me, and never made sense- I know I would hate to have my life reduced down to “a lesson for others.” It makes sense to be that people suffer in a world where there is no benevolent, loving god person to watch out for you, but in a world where there is a god, but he lets people die young… I know, same old “why do bad things happen to good people?” but I really wonder how anyone can deal with that.

  • Jesus Freak

    YOu know what, i Was there, and everything was set up as it always was. And you can not tell me that this didnt happen for a reason. There were so many people that went throught the ride safely, so why this person, why this time? there is no coincidences here. its all God. For some reason he called her home, and we may never know why. But you know, of course followers of Christ are going to say that she was Called home and this happened for a reason. WE have hope. I know that one day i will see Liz again. The Question is when i will, but i know i will. YOu know what, you have to ask yourself a question, “What if God has a plan for LIz’s death. What if he is using her death to get your attention? to show you that Death can happen at any moment, and that you better know your maker before you go before him.” and you know, If you you looked at all the people there at lifest after this tragic event occured, anyone of them would tell you that they are sad, but it isnt a sadness with out hope, but a sadness with hope and longing… thats all id like to say mr. analytical guy.

  • Richard Wade

    I don’t think it is necessary, useful or appropriate to come to any judgmental conclusions about the character of the people at Lifest according to the amount of time that activities stopped, whether two hours or more or less, or what kind of activities resumed.

    This is not a time to make philosophical hay in your own outlook’s favor, whether believer or non-believer; not a time to either criticize or to champion Christianity. This is a time to feel empathy for the girl’s family who are suffering right now, and if you are in a position to offer them support then to do so.

    As for the rest of it, everybody should shut up.

  • Joe

    Wow i mean i guess i never really looked at it that way, i mean ur right. whenever a freak accident or occurance happens Christians always come up with the craziest ideas of how ITS ALL IN THE PLAN.

    But hey i just had to comment a few things,
    1st, how is it Ironic that this girl died at a christian music festival? What the fuck makes it ironic, are christians not supose to die? is this to lead readers onto believe there is no God, that he cant possibly exist because a 16 year old girl plunges to the ground and dies? that sound of her flesh hitting the dirt, the screams, and the pain of seeing her friends cry out to God “why did u do this!” yes i was there. though u must understand that everyone there were not all “christians”.

    2nd, i need to definately comment on your opinion about how christians always use God as a scape goat for everything that happens. i mean after the fact of the event, when everybody was in prayer, i walked around the lifest grounds fighting in my head with all the thoughts of pain that everybody is enduring. I mean if God really exists then WHY WOULD HE ALLOW THIS 16 YEAR OLD GIRL TO DIE, i mean it angered me to hear “its all part of the plan” or “We all get called home somtime”. but hey im just a 16 yr old dude, i dont have the cognative capacity for that. Then in all the confusion i realized that these ppl had somthing, they had compassion, a peace and understanding, they were struck with grief yet they had something in them pulling them along. (to be honest we all saw past the bullshit the media was saying, we were there, she was dead after they tried CPR and she left covered with a white sheet, it was an instant death)

    Hey im not atheist (OVIOUSLY), I believe that is probably the most bullshit, selfish, and meaningless belief to go by. i just think that if you have this thing called the Bible that has never once been proven false on any acount, but has converted most of those that set out to prove it false, and has led a faith to to have lasted more than 2000 years with over billions of followers yet has been critisized since the begining by ppl like you. i mean there is definately a supernatural power behind it no doubt in my mind. i think ppl are just scared by it. im not goin to get into this any more tho, cause if u never believed it before, what’ll change now? this isnt about that, this whole thing is about YOU THE WRITER using this tragedy to poke a pussy punch insult at the christian faith on how its just crap, and if you have a response for me, I WOULD BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO HEAR IT.

  • Jen

    Richard Wade, I am going to respectfully disagree with you. I don’t see why I shouldn’t philosophical about this girl’s death. She isn’t someone I know, and I don’t know anyone who knows her. Yes, it is sad she died, for her loved ones, but I don’t know her from Adam. If I spent all my time feeling badly because someone died, I would never not be sad, because people die all the time.

    Joe- assuming you ever come back to this blog, please refrain from using female genitalia as a way to degrade people. It makes women mad. It makes them not listen to you. I wouldn’t have listened anyway, because you can’t type or spell or speak nicely to people, but the final straw was refering to something you viewed as bad as “pussy”.

  • http://fivepublicopinions.blogspot.com AV

    As for the rest of it, everybody should shut up.

    No, they shouldn’t.

    And you can not tell me that this didnt happen for a reason. There were so many people that went throught the ride safely, so why this person, why this time? there is no coincidences here. its all God.

    God did it, huh?

    Prove it.

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com/ olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    You can run your own blog as you see fit, but I think this is a really mean-spirited post. Not up to your usual standards at all. You could at least have waited for the body to have cooled, couldn’t you?

  • Maria

    I don’t think it is necessary, useful or appropriate to come to any judgmental conclusions about the character of the people at Lifest according to the amount of time that activities stopped, whether two hours or more or less, or what kind of activities resumed.

    This is not a time to make philosophical hay in your own outlook’s favor, whether believer or non-believer; not a time to either criticize or to champion Christianity. This is a time to feel empathy for the girl’s family who are suffering right now, and if you are in a position to offer them support then to do so.

    As for the rest of it, everybody should shut up.

    I agree, but unfortunately I doubt many others will

  • Maria

    As for the rest of it, everybody should shut up.

    No, they shouldn’t.

    Yes they should. A young girl’s death shouldn’t be a topic of debate over something that had nothing to do with her death-i.e. religion. what’s the point? who cares what religoin she was or wasn’t? how is this relevant to anything?

  • http://mollishka.blogspot.com mollishka

    Can you even imagine being the other person who was on that ride right now…?

    It’s a miracle they survived.

  • http://skepticaldog.com/wp richard

    Never know when God is going to take someone…

    I’m thinking that they should issue weapons at the gate, in case God gets the urge to take some more people…

  • Lois

    That poor girl! I feel so sorry for her family. What a horrible thing to happen at what should have been a fun, joyful, relaxing event. I cannot accept the notion that she died because “God took her home.” Isn’t God supposed to be loving, compassionate, and kind? How loving is it to murder someone, especially in such a terrifying fashion? Imagine the fear that girl felt as she was falling to her death. Is it an act of love to make people afraid? If God really wanted her in heaven so badly, why didn’t he kill her in her sleep? At least that would have more humane.

    Btw, how can anyone be sure she went to heaven? “Not all who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven.” You can be doing everything you’re supposed to be doing, even casting out demons, prophesying, and performing miracles, and be tossed into hell like so much cord wood because Jesus was PMSing that day. Maybe it was Satan who killed her. I mean, Christians are always saying how bad Satan is, yet not one of them is blaming HIM for this tragedy! Why is that?

    I’ll tell you why–it’s because in the Bible, all evil is done by GOD, not by Satan. All thru the Old Testament, it is God who brings the plagues, floods, war, fire from heaven, death and misery. In the NT, Satan plays a minimal role, only appearing long enough to test Jesus on the mountain and then to take part in John’s pipe dream in Revelations. It is no wonder Christians are saying “God did it”–they don’t have any other precedent!

    Isa. 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

    Amos 3:6 Shall there be evil in a city and the Lord has not done it?

    So, if BibleGod exists, then perhaps his followers are right to blame him–he freely admits to doing evil. I would suggest they find a nicer god to worship.

  • Tammy

    Every summer something like this happens somewhere. It’s a statistical certainty that everything mechanical is bound to fail if not properly maintained, and I’m astonished that more people aren’t injured on these kinds of carnival rides. With so many moving parts, technichians apparently can’t possibly check every little thing, and so there is unfortunately an element of real risk to boarding one of these rides. Not long ago at a Six Flags, some poor little girl lost both her feet because a cable snapped loose. It’s nothing but horror and suffering to have to go through something like this. My heart goes out to Elizabeth Mohl’s family and friends.

  • Richard Wade

    Right after the Virginia Tech massacre, even before the bodies were counted, tasteless, heartless and unscrupulous jerks came out from under every ideological rock imaginable to blame whatever group, religion or political view that they opposed. None of it had anything to do with the tragedy, but they didn’t give a damn. It should have been called Carnival of the Cheap Shots. Lots of people who comment on this site found all that reprehensible.

    I don’t understand the purpose of Hemant’s posting this other than an invitation for people to take their cheap shots.

    What exactly is the “irony” about this, other than it’s a death at an event called “Lifest?” That doesn’t have anything to do with Christianity, but Hemant seems to imply that it does.

    What exactly is he implying about the length of time that there was a pause in the activities? What would satisfy him as a proper response? That everybody immediately went home? There’s nothing in Emily Post’s etiquette books suggesting a way of handling a situation like this. There were thousands of people there. There was an accident. What the hell were they were supposed to do?

    Some Christians will say they’re praying for the girl and her family. Some will talk about God doing this or God doing that. That’s what they do, guys! That’s their world view, and how they try to make sense of life. We don’t agree, but there are much better examples to use to challenge them. To take advantage of this as an opportunity to sneer and snark about their religion is a CHEAP SHOT and those who do should be ashamed of themselves. Criticize Christians when they’re standing up, not when they’re down on the mat.

    Accidents happen wherever people gather in large numbers. They happen at church picnics, rock concerts and Hell’s Angels conventions. Some day some tragic accident is going to happen at an atheist convention. When dozens of assholes who also happen to be Christian start saying that it’s God’s vengeance, the same people cheap-shooting here are going to shout “How dare you take such a cheap shot!”

  • http://emergingpensees.blogspot.com/ Mike C

    I agree w/Richard Wade.

    And, while it may seem to atheists like “adding insult to injury” to talk about God’s purposes and plans even in the midst of tragedy, for those who do believe in God, it is actually often comforting. There are many who prefer to believe that bad things do happen for a reason, and that good can be brought out of evil. It helps some people to think that it’s not all just meaningless, senseless tragedy.

    And believe it or not, there are some Christians on the other hand do not want to be simply be told that “it’s all part of God’s plan” and are more comforted simply by recognizing that sometimes shit just happens and we don’t have a good reason and that God is just as angry and heartbroken as we are by it. We wrestle with both sides of that coin, between God’s mercy and God’s providence and there are even some of us that think there’s a little of both going on at the same time.

    But the point is that it is a conversation among theists, something we wrestle with and agonize over, not just platitudes that we throw around lightly. And frankly it does come across as a kind of a cheap shot for someone from the outside to criticize grieving religious people for how they deal with tragedy and how they work out this tension.

  • liljase

    i never look at these things as Gods plan… more God can turn it around to use it for good… it may bring family/community members closer together, it may help others value life more, etc etc…
    For example, i was sexually abused by 3 different people when i was a kid. Was it Gods plan, HELL NO… but i believe that he has used my experience to help others. If i could turn back the clock i would not change a thing about my past, as it made me who i am today.

  • http://www.skepchick.org writerdd

    And you can not tell me that this didnt happen for a reason. There were so many people that went throught the ride safely, so why this person, why this time?

    Yes, I certainly can. This didn’t happen for a reason. The answer to your question is actually quite simple: Shit happens.

  • Badger Bugler

    I — a “born again” Christian pastor — was there and know this first hand:

    With respect to the quote from Edmund Burke — “The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing” — posted on another site by a story on the “ride death” a a 16 year old Christian girl this weekend in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, good men there did do something ahead of time but numerous LIFEST leaders crassly and without due diligence, concern, insight, wisdom, concern or vision, blatantly and inexcusably refused to address the concerns, justifying the overt violation of their written safety guidelines and promises to security volunteers (some of whom were injured because LIFEST knowingly violated all standards of reasonable civil and/or Christian conduct)!

    We read in God’s Word that “Where there is no vision a people perish!” The self-centered lack of vision by LIFEST leaders literally led, I believe (from an insider’s perspective) to the perhaps entirely avoidable death of Elizabeth Mohl!

    For those kids thinking “God took” Elizabeth, I believe she is, indeed, with Him. But I do not believe that He “took” her. Instead, He had men and women claiming that the safety of all attendees were in their worthy hands, then knowingly and nearly intentionally lifted their hands of protection over kids like Elizabeth. That’s to say, God did not take her, but “we” let her slip from our hands and into His. And His mercy and promise kept for her salvation cannot and should not be our excuse for such negligence!

    And Wes Halula was foolish and wrong to say that the LIFEST team needed to get over the “shock” of Liz’s death before they could examine what they might have done differently. What might have been differently was forcefully spoken to them before the accident/death. What they need to examine, if anything, is their hearts and consciouses and the heart and mind of God to see why it is they would ignore such warnings of likely danger and death (in particular) if they did not change their behavior (that is the staff, first, as well as attendees).

    LIFEST brazenly ignored and such more than reasonable warnings, acknowledging the wisdom of the warnings. Money over safety…

    Also, LIFEST DID NOT Shut down following the accident/death for any period of time! And they don’t need to “get over the shock” before they examine what they might have done differently. They were told of dangers on site before the “accident” and overtly refused to correct/change all sorts of things. Time will tell whether the truth comes out, but there are those who know it and Halula is not speaking it! They also ingnored warnings and refused at the highest level of their staff to enforce their own alleged “security policies” before all of the injuries at the SKILLET concert! Their behavior was decidedly negligent, illegal and non-Christian!

  • Karen

    I agree w/Richard Wade.

    For the record, I do too.

  • Maria

    I agree with Richard Wade as well. And from a theistic perspective, Mike C makes sense too. When I was a theist, and someone very close to me died, the fact that I thought she was in heaven helped me cope. I know many here will say it was “irrational”, but having to deal with death I wasn’t exactly “rational”. I don’t think I could have gotten through it without it. It does have it’s purposes, its usefulness, and its place. I must say I’m getting tired of this whole “everything theistic is bad no matter what” line I’m hearing more and more all over the internet (not so much here but other places). I don’t see how a little girl’s death should become an opportunity to bash something.

  • Kevin Hahn

    I would think after this countries recent troubles with Iraq and the Moslem’s we would know that there is more then one school of thought in every group, Christians are no different. I grew up the victim of sexual abuse, I had to deal with all those that think God is a puppet master pulling all our strings like we have no choices. God gives us free will, we are free to love God or not, we are free to abuse others or not and we are free to ride rides or not. I had a group of 39 at Lifest and several rode this ride. I watched the people hooking up the riders as complicated as it was there is room for errors. This girl made a choice just as the other people that rode this ride did. It could have happened to any one of my group just as easily and that scares me and I may make different choices next time. Yes God is all powerful and all knowing. God is all powerful if you choose to make God all powerful but you still have to live in a world where others make other choices. And yes, God is all knowing, God knows what is in our hearts. God grieves with us and God celebrates with us. That is what Lifest is all about celebrating the God who knows us and loves us dispite the choices we make.

  • Badger Bugler

    Dear Atheist:

    I will also add, this time, that you should reserve your criticism not for Elizabeth Mohl…

    Certainly she had the free will to take the ride, but the organizers had a civil and biblical obligation to do what they failed and refused to do. This is not a simple “accident” but the forseeable and avoidable end result of adults charged with and obligated to protect[ing] the welfare of all participants. I dare to say that this man should thank God Liz was not in his group, and that he did not, as I did, have to counsel and comfort the surviving friend of Liz and the two girls who left the ride right before and talked with Liz as they exchanged the harness on the ramp.

    This is a repost of one posted elsewhere online on a student jounalist’s daily web log written from on scene at LIFEST …

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!”

    Dear Rachel:

    First, let me congratulate you on your excellent writing skills and journalistic talents and values. It is essential to not write about something as “truth” unless you know it to be true. You have written the truth of your experiences and reserved the right to do so about other things at LIFEST (and in life) for those who experienced it first hand.

    That being said, your devoted readers might like to know more of the truth that you could not know because you were doing other great work as a reporter and volunteer elsewhere on the grounds this past week…

    I am a “born again” Christian pastor who has worked for many of the best known ministries and who was there as part of the volunteer security and know this first hand:

    Edmund Burke once said (paraphrase): “The only thing necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing!”

    Posted on another site beside a story on Liz’s death a LIFEST, this aphorism from Burke prompts me to want you and others to know this: good men there did do something ahead of time by reporting serious concerns for visitor safety and risks of harm and/or death in a number of areas — including campsites, concerts and the Air Glory ride — but numerous LIFEST leaders repeatedly crassly and in violation of the principles and values of civil and biblical due diligence, insight, wisdom, concern or vision, blatantly and inexcusably refused to address the concerns, justifying the overt violation of their written safety guidelines and promises to security volunteers (some of whom were injured because LIFEST knowingly violated all standards of reasonable civil and/or Christian conduct)!

    We read in God’s Word that “Where there is no vision a people perish!”

    What I observed to be what I would call a self-centered lack of vision and wisdom by LIFEST leaders — including Bob Lenz and numerous senior LIFEST and security leaders, literally led (I believe, from an insider’s perspective) to the perhaps (I think almost certainly) entirely avoidable death of Elizabeth Mohl!

    For those kids thinking “God took” Elizabeth, I believe she is, indeed, with Him. But I do not believe that He “took” her.

    Instead, and all so sadly, He had men and women claiming that the safety of all attendees were in their worthy hands — people who knowingly and willfully and, I believe, even intentionally lifted their hands of protection from over and around wonderful kids like Elizabeth. That’s to say, God did not take her, but “we” let her slip from our hands and into His. And His mercy and promise kept for her salvation cannot and should not be our excuse for such negligence!

    Since you mention Skillet, know that they (LIFEST leaders) were repeatedly warned well before that concert of serious threats of injury and death, and in one hour alone at that concert — after LIFEST brazenly ignored warnings, then pulled security from the crowd — dozens of people were hurt there, with around a half dozen EMS calls; and broken bones, cuts, bruises and other injuries that were untransported, etc. Also, one family came to me pleading to be heard, since they said LIFEST refused to treat their daughter’s broken thumb. They literally pulled up stakes and left the event that night, having to drive a couple of hours to get home and obtain medical treatment, as they claim LIFEST refused or was incapable of doing so. Yet I warned them hours before that such was the likely outcome of that concert if they continued to violate common sense and their own stated safety and security policies.

    They also ingnored warnings and refused at the highest level of their staff to enforce their own alleged “security policies” before all of the injuries at the SKILLET concert!

    Space here and discretion does not allow specific names (particularly in light of the police investigation), but please do not confuse discretion with generalization or broad attacks. So, if nothing else, rest assured, just as I wish to assure readers here, that I am not saying such things about the (far better than) “average” volunteers like you and those you write about, who were, indeed, almost all devoted, tireless (though tired) and thoughtful servants in the very mold of the heart and hands of Jesus Christ Himself.

    I am confident that the specifics will be revealed in the investigation to the investigators, whom I have already contacted and whose duty it is and will be to share it with the public. Should that not happen in its proper time and way, then I may choose to “go more public” with what I saw and experienced first hand!

    For all of the good you experienced with Tammy Borden, which no doubt made your week wonderful in so many ways, Communication Director Wes Halula was foolish and wrong to say to reporters that the LIFEST team needed to get over the “shock” of Liz’s death before they could examine what they might have done differently. What might have been done differently was forcefully spoken to them before the accident/death by me and others. Even if that were not the case, they should not have lost one moment to reflect on that very issue immediately, so that not one more thing would go wrong for lack of attentiveness. That they were so concerned with their own grief to focus on the safety of others and how to ensure that safety immediately demonstrates, I believe, the lack of wisdom, maturity, experience and concern that any adult should have, let alone a minstry and business and concert promotion group, etc.

    What they need to examine, if anything, is their hearts and consciouses and the heart and mind of God to see why it is that they would — from the lowest to highest points of LIFEST management — repeatedly, intentionally and willfully ignore such warnings of likely danger and death (in particular) if they did not change their behavior (that is the staff, first, as well as attendees). LIFEST brazenly ignored such more than reasonable warnings, while literally, at the same time, acknowledging the wisdom of the warnings I and others spoke to them! Money over safety…?

    They must also examine whether what they said to anyone and everyone in the wake of this all — from the visitors in the seats to the media — was true. (I know certain things to have not been true, which troubles me in an era when Christians often do not trust the media. You must understand that not all “Christians” speak truth, either, so, unfortunately, the media is as much a victim in such cases as the readers, the Church and the good name of our Lord and Savior, as well! (God is big enough to not be bothered or swayed or hurt my the media — His Church is not!)

    Also, in spite of claims to the contrary, LIFEST DID NOT “shut down” following the accident/death for any period of time!

    And they don’t need to “get over the shock” before they examine what they might have done differently. They were told of dangers on site before the “accident” and overtly refused to correct/change all sorts of things.

    Time will tell whether the truth comes out, but there are those who know it and Halula is not speaking it!

    Their behavior was decidedly negligent, illegal and non-Christian!

    I feel sure that when God saw the men and women who promised to care for Liz and so many others fail and even refuse to do so (though many other volunteers gave so much in trying — so that you do not think this a generalized “attack” on those we all know to have been wise and faiythful stewards and watchment appointed by God), that “JESUS WEPT!”

    In addition to praying for Liz’ parents, family and friends, I’m praying for the young woman with her and the two girls who met them when they exchanged the harnesses on the ride site after finishing their ride, as I ministered with others to all three of them on site.

    They all deserve the absolute truth, and the public after them. As for me and my house, we will continue to serve the Lord, and I will advise all whom I know to not risk sending their kids to LIFEST in particular. The bands — some of which I have worked with — are great and wonderful Christian “ministers” and missionaries, to be sure — but LIFEST, I believe, cannot be entrusted with the role of being stewards and watchmen of the safety of children and adults alike!

    Amidst deep sadness and a dose of anger over the inaction that seems to have led to this tragic loss, I find some comfort in this: I’ve been told that Liz was a “born again” Christian! In that, we know how her story ends — just as the life of her Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ: tragedy, perhaps pain, but immeasureable glory and an eternal life wherein there are, in the words of the song (No More Nights) based on Scripture: “No more nights, no more pain, no more tears, never crying again, and praises to the Great I Am, we will live in the light of the Risen Lamb!”

    For those young men and women (even adults) wrestling with such a question as “Why did God take her in this way?” be sure that He did not take her in this way; but He did receive her in His way! In the midst of the pain we share and that of her parents, which we can barely compehend, that is our One True Blessed Assurance!

    And that, as He has done for such a wonderful girl as Liz (whose friends and teachers sing her praises on sites and to media outlets all over the web), “He Who began a good work in you will be faithful to bring it to completion on the day of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!” (Philippians 1:6)

    Jesus loves Liz and will complete His good work in her! In fact, He did almost 2,000 years ago when, on top of a cross, He boldly declared:

    “It is finished!”

    We love Him and we love Liz in the love He gave us!

    “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free!”

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S. In the spirit of truth, fairness and integrity (and a form of apology) I need to add this to my previous post: When I wrote “You should reserve…” I was speaking of POSTER “Kevin Hahn” and not the Friendly Atheist! Apologies for the ambiguity, lack of clarity and any misunderstanding!

  • Jesus Freak

    I would just like to take this time to evangelizes to anyone reading this site and who is searching for the truth and comfort. This is for anyone who feels the void in their heart, and Drugs or Alcohol,or pornagrahpy,or sex isnt filling that void. Cuz i can tell you the only thing that will fill this void is the Great I am, the everlasting God, Jesus Christ.

    He was the Greatest man to ever walk the face of this planet. A king, who came to this earth to die on a cross for 9 painful hours for me and you. I think Jesus is amazing and over the past month, i had the pleasure of Going on a Mission trip to Denver, Co, to see Jesus in Action. It was the trip of a lifetime. WE drove there, and one the way we had the honor of witnessing to a homeless couple, but in the end, they actually witnessed to us. There story was so amazing. And when we got there, all lot of people were getting hurt and sick (Spiritual Warefare), but within a day everyone was healthy again! I had the pleasure of working in a nursing home for two days, and then i was able to paint houses for two more days. And on one night , we had praise and worship on top of a mountain, and it was so amazing!!! I saw God change the hearts of many on the trip, but most of all he changed me. Before i went on this trip, i was depressed, angry, and sad. I had a relationship with JEsus, but it was like i hadnt let go of everything and given it to JEsus. I was still holding onto my Pride, Sin, Self Image, and ANger. And On this trip, Jesus showed me that the only way i was going to be happy was if i just gave everything to him. I know what happened, and YOu can’t argue with me on this subject because i Felt God on that trip, and there is no doubt in my mind that he exsist. WOw, i am just so amazed of my Jesus…..

    So, some of you may be reading this and you may be searching for the truth and comfort. FOr some, there is a hole, or a void in your hear, and Drugs or Alcohol or sex isnt filling that void. Cuz i can tell you the only thing that will fill this void is the Great I am, the everlasting God, Jesus Christ.

    Yes i know, what your thinking.. “Ya Jesus, OKay prove it.”
    Well okay…..

    SO there are a few things we have to examine about this man named jesus. There is no doubt that he was a live and existed in history. Believe there is more evidence that Jesus was alive and walked the planet, than George Washington was the first President of the United States of AMerica…
    However, some of you may be thinking, “Ya i KNow Jesus exsisted, but I think he was just a good rabbi, or a guy with revolutionary ideas, and he he died never rose again after his crucifixion.”

    So you also have to ask yourself, “WHo was JEsus? Was he Lord, Liar, Or Lunitic?” WEll i am here to clear up everything for you.

    Was Jesus a Lunitic? I Definiatly think not… If you look at everything that came out of his mouth, nothing points towards the fact that he was crazy..Even if he wasnt GOd Himself, he still left behind a lot of wisdom for people to consider…. For Example Jesus told us to,” Turn the other cheek if someone slapps you, or if someone asks for your coat, give them your sweater too”..

    To be honest, It is very unlikely that he was Lunitic

    NOw, Was Jesus a Liar? Was he lieing about being the Son of God, and Being Christ himself? OR Was it a conspiricy by the 12 disciples? I think not. The main thing you have to consider is the the Crucifxion… WHy on earth would Jesus of Nazareth Suffer on a Cross for 9 hours for a lie? He was sentanced to death for claiming to be the Son of God, and at any moment on that cross, he could renounced everything he said, and he would have been taken off the cross. Yet never did that. Why?

    HOpefully by now you are thinking that Jesus is the Messiah, but you still have one good question. ” Ya He may have been the messiah, but what if it was a conspiracy and he never rose from the dead?”
    WEll you have to ask yourself, ” WHat GOod is a Dead MEssiah?” There is no good reason for a dead messiah. IF you look at all the Discpiles and there eye witness accounts of Jesus’s Ressurection, they all have the same story, and each one is 100 % alike. Each story lines up with each other, there are no gaps and no questioable errors. IF you think about it tho, WHy would ALL of Jesus’s Disciples Die and Be tourtured for a LIe? Every single Discple (except Judas the Scariet) was either tortued or killed for Proclaiming Jesus as Lord. Why Would these Men Die For a LIe? They wouldn’t, becasue it wasnt a lie. James was pushed off a building and stoned to death. Thomas was Burned alive. Simon Peter was Crucified upside down. JOhn was Thrown in Boiling Oil. IF it was a lie, dont you think at one point, one of them would have renounced Jesus? But they didnt. NOT a single Disciple…

    THis is why i think Jesus is My Lord, do you? Not only is this convincing to me…. But if you think about it……

    Lets just look at WOrld religions in general…. CHristianity is the only religion to claim to have a Rissen Messiah. If you look at Buddia, or Confusious, or Mohomad of Islam. Non of these religious firgures Claimed to Have rissen from the dead. IF you look, you will find Mohomad’s bones or buddia’s or Confusius, but NOt Jesus Christ’s…

    Christianity is the only Faith to Claim to Have a Rissen MEssiah, and if you dont think that is pretty powerful, than i think you better question your logic…
    And just look at how long it has been around. Since the beginning of time.. The oldest religion known to man. ANother Plus for Christianity.

    But the thing you have to remeber about christianity… ITs not a Religon. Its a personsal relationship with JEsus Christ. Just like that of you and your best friend..

    SO for those who really believe what i am saying, and are seeking Christ.. It is so simple..
    Christ says all you need to do is, “Profess from your mouth, and Believe in your heart, and you will be saved”

    That is how easy it is to have eternal Life… Jesus also says… “I am the Way, THe truth, and the LIght… NO one comes to the FATHER except through me.” John 14.

    How are you going to get into heave?

    and remember, “It is not by works that we are saved, but only throught the Blood of Jesus Christ.”

    Any more questions.
    In Christ
    A genuine Jesus Freak

  • Richard Wade

    :roll:

  • ash

    i’m not sure which bit was my favourite, reading about Judas the Scariet or the fact that i won’t get into heave…

    maybe it was just all those random capitals that really convinced me…*sigh*

  • everyone’s a pundit

    To Badger Bugler:

    You have strong allegations that seem to be most appropriately shared with, and only with, the authorities. However, you seem to be more interested in rending and tearing down than anything. As evidence of this I offer your repeated, public assertions of wrongdoing, your naming of specific individuals perceived to be culpable — even while you claim restraint — and your threat to “go more public”.

    I understand your sadness and anger. You have a right to feel this way. But, please, consider your words carefully. Once they’re posted online they will not die, and you may sooner or later regret saying them.

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    Badger,
    For serious accusations to be taken clearly, they need to be made by someone not hiding behind anonymity. If what you say is true, you should say who you are, and immediately contact appropriate authorities. Otherwise, this really isn’t the venue for long, copied-and-pasted tirades about specific allegations…

    Hemant, maybe this post would’ve been better in a few weeks? I think the post itself was respectful, though the comments immediately went downhill, and it’s important to ask these question, but given the mixed nature of your audience, a little more delay might have played better.

  • HappyNat

    I would just like to take this time to evangelizes to anyone reading this site

    Really, brother? *sigh*

  • Badger Bugler

    Sorry about the “copy and paste” problem, globalizatzi…

    Perhaps that’s why the Bible doesn’t work for you either — just a reprint of something womeone wrote about what others said and has been reprinted time and again…

    Oops, same problem with the daily newspaper, I suppose.

    Then again, your criticism is like that old adage about journalists, “Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story.” For you, it’s “Never let the facts get in the way of making an erroneous criticism.”

    First of all, the story said I was in contact with authorities. No doubt, you probably hae President Bush (let’s say you do). Should I expect you to speak only your truth privately to him and bind your lips and fingers in public? One right or obligation — whether as a citizen or Christian — does not negate or require the prior exercise of the other to be legitimate.

    Also, I don’t need to identify myself to prove the truth of what I say, just as your comments are no more or less true by YOUR OWN anonymity! The truth is the truth, no mae who spoke it.

    As or your criticism of cut and paste, which is one of the lamest gripes — after all, if I cut and pasted here absolute proof for the atheist that there was no God or that there was a God, depending on your preferred life choice, I surely and definitevly doubt that you would take issue with it, especially to the extent that it supported your preferred position!

    Furthermore, I had the integrity to let you know the source of the material, which iwrote to another but was entirely relevant and slightly adapted to the presentation and discussion on this site. Then again, integrity and honesty seem to bother you, since you violate the same principal (anonymity) over which you chastise me! I guess hypocrisy is not the exclusive purview of we CHristians after all, is it?

    And finally, having the background I do, I know many things you do not or seem coy enough to pretend you do not. The truth I speak can and will be proven true, but one offering information and testimony can and often needs anonymity even in serving the police and DAs. If you think I am stupid enough to lie to anyone and/or stupid enough to speak so great a truh and put myself in harms way while attempting to help the investigation, you are more a fool than you realize. To reveal my name would be to forewarn those responsible and help them know where to go and what to do to cover up what they’ve done and I can demonstrate before the police get there… (Then again, are you a Christian whose conscience would allow you to be complicit in such a cover up? Are you asking, encouraging, suggesting or telling me o do such a thing?! Hmmmm. seems like you might just be…)

    Then again, your blatant ignorance of the fact that I wrote that I had contacted the authorities demonstrates, in light of your erroneous comments suggesting that I had not, proves your ignorance and lack of wisdom and vision beyond question.

    By the way, the name of the investigators I’ve spoken to or left messages with in the various investigating agencies are Joseph T, David, Sergeant “X”, two Oshkosh Police Officer and DA Christian Gossett.

    So, my “friend,” just what do you know and who have you told?!

  • Badger Bugler

    Well, everyonesapundit, it seems that your name and actions prove that everyonesapundit…

    They are not allegations but the truth. Strange if you are an atheist that you would chastise a Christian for telling the truth…strange if you are a Christian that you would be chastising a Christian for telling the truth.

    I’m not sure where you get your life lessons from, but an obligation to tell authorities about such a thing — which my story says I am doing — does not require that I not speak the truth elsewise (unless you are a devotee of the Star Chamber approach to American justice.

    And if you are a Christian, you would know that God calls all men to be watchmen (read Ezekiel on this) not accountable to the authorities but, firsat and foremost, to God and the Church. I am doing that, and rendiering unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. But one definitely does not preclude the other.

    Finally, that was not a threat. It was a fact. I am speaking truth to the Church while also allowing the authorities to have the information and time to do their job. In the event that I believe any sort of intentional cover up or inadvertent injustice is being done to the victims, the public and the truth, I will gladly go public. That is not a threat made to anyone, but a statement of fact to assure those who read this tha I am and will be doing everything to make sure everyone who needs to hear about what I WITNESSED first hand knows about it and has a chance to weigh it in the mix of all other things they know and will (I hope) learn.

    I will never regret speaking the truth in love, as Christ commands us and God demands of us (in Ezekiel and elsewhere). I only regret that, for whatever reason, whether bias, blindness, naivete, ignorance or somehing even worse, you apparently fail to grasp the importance and necessity of doing both — so that the public is accountable to the authorities and the authorities accountable to the public. The family to Lifest and Lifest to the family. The authorities to Lifest and Lifest to the authories! And all of us to the Lord our God! The sort of “checks and balancse” both described in Scripture and American law!

    Once again, “[Do not] criticize things you don’t know about!”

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

  • Badger Bugler

    By the way, Hemant, while I think a few of the citations and links are dubious — and believe that the CNN Savage link was a fraud created by the poster (which you or I could do in five seconds — I also believe that the geneal quesions you have raised are legitimate.

    Though you may be coming at them with a different agenda, seeking and speaking the truth is something that Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul said are essential, even for the non-believer. In fact, when the disciples cam e to him angry and asking him to stop non-believers from speaking the truth of the gospel, Paul said (paraphrase), “Lighten up boys — in either case, the truth is going forth.”

    You may be a wofl in sheep’s clothing, Hemant, but you are almsot respectful to a fault in this case in relation to a religion and dogma that are clearly a thorn in your side. Kudos for that, if nothing else.

    If you knew more about who I am and what I have done and for which Christian ministries (some of the worlds very best known and widely respected), you might be surprised to see that I have said such a thing. But edification is not a gift that Christians are told is intended to be the exclusive gift to fellow Christians.

    I could not disagree more wholeheartedly about your views on the Bible and rejection of Jesus Christ, but I do appreciate the generally civil and respectful tone of this post thread. Though you may be privately applauding the seeming ironies, paradoxes and evidences of God’s absence from all things (and existence, to boot), you have shown what i consider incredible restraint and general good will.

    Odd some times, as Paul demonstrated, that the truth should make such “odd bedfellows”!

    Regards…

  • everyone’s a pundit

    Badger Bugler, your words do not give the impression of “speaking the truth in love.” Most particularly you seem to have ignored the instructions of Matthew 18:15-17. I implore you to reconsider how you are handling this.

  • Badger Bugler

    Dear Pundit:

    I am not remotely concerned with what you say is the “impression” you have gotten. Impressions are not necessarily reality and you clearly ignore the reality of my posts.

    Before you pop off again about things you clearly neither know nor care about, let me encourage and IMPLORE you to read the posts for the first time (since your blatant ignorance and lack of clarity makes it clear that you almost certainly never read them in the first place)!

    I did say all of these things to LIFEST leaders all along! They did not listen, people were injured and died!

    What about that do you not understand.

    Speaking the truth in love does not mean just the truth for LIFEST, but also the truth in love for the Mohl family, the Lord and all involved (the Lord’s desires and instructions being first). It seems to me that you conduse that passage with an instruction to not say something that is the truth if it might get someone in trouble. Well, if that’s the case, imagine a very different day today had they followed the very specific and strongly spoken advice and exhortation made to around 10 people, plus two Oshkosh police officers.

    I’m not concerned with your impression of any of it! You are clearly a confused and decieved soul who also refuses to answer any questions about you! You, instead, are the anonymous and attacking person who enjoys the legitimacy of these claims.

    By the way, did you call the state investigators with what you know, as I did long before you claimed I did not or should do so if my concerns were “legitimate”? Have you called them to get proof that I did not? Your ignorance and foolishness are no excuse for your inane comments.

    If you are an atheist, then to quote God’s Word is a greater “joke” than for me as a Christian to believe and propogate a belief in a God that,a ccording to your beliefs, does not exist. For you to quote His word and claim I am obligated to obey it is not only the height of illiogic, by hypocrisy, schizophrenia and insanity!

    I you are a Christian, the you clearly do not understand the meaning of that verse in the light of the fulness of Scripture. If you did, you would understand and respect God’s Word to the “watchman” of Ezekiel! And you would be praising God that someone has the courage o speak such difficult truths, not chastising them to stop it! So, that would make you a Christian not concerned about truth, only “protecting the Church fromthe truth” in a fit a denial! (Denial is not just a river in Egypt!)

    Sad state of spiritual and intellectual affairs you seem to reveal in your life and that of the LIFEST team! Just what job do you hold with them? What is at risk for you speaking or hearing and believing THE TRUTH, pundit? It seems, again, that your screen name reveals much about you… criticizing things that you neither know nor truly care about!

    Good luck with that!

  • Badger Bugler

    Dear Pundit:

    I am not remotely concerned with what you say is the “impression” you have gotten. Impressions are not necessarily reality and you clearly ignore the reality of my posts.

    Before you pop off again about things you clearly neither know nor care about, let me encourage and IMPLORE you to read the posts for the first time (since your blatant ignorance and lack of clarity makes it clear that you almost certainly never read them in the first place)!

    I did say all of these things to LIFEST leaders all along! READ THE POST! They did not listen, people were injured and died!

    What about that do you not understand.

    Speaking the truth in love does not mean just the truth for LIFEST, but also the truth in love for the Mohl family, the Lord and all involved (the Lord’s desires and instructions being first). It seems to me that you conduse that passage with an instruction to not say something that is the truth if it might get someone in trouble. Well, if that’s the case, imagine a very different day today had they followed the very specific and strongly spoken advice and exhortation made to around 10 people, plus two Oshkosh police officers.

    I’m not concerned with your impression of any of it! You are clearly a confused and decieved soul who also refuses to answer any questions about you! You, instead, are the anonymous and attacking person who enjoys the legitimacy of these claims.

    By the way, did you call the state investigators with what you know, as I did long before you claimed I did not or should do so if my concerns were “legitimate”? Have you called them to get proof that I did not? Your ignorance and foolishness are no excuse for your inane comments.

    If you are an atheist, then to quote God’s Word is a greater “joke” than for me as a Christian to believe and propogate a belief in a God that,a ccording to your beliefs, does not exist. For you to quote His word and claim I am obligated to obey it is not only the height of illiogic, by hypocrisy, schizophrenia and insanity!

    If you are a Christian, the you clearly do not understand the meaning of that verse in the light of the fulness of Scripture. If you did, you would understand and respect God’s Word to the “watchman” of Ezekiel! And you would be praising God that someone has the courage o speak such difficult truths, not chastising them to stop it! So, that would make you a Christian not concerned about truth, only “protecting the Church fromthe truth” in a fit a denial! (Denial is not just a river in Egypt!)

    Perhaps like the LIFEST staff, you like “the truth” only the way you like it and only if it serves your needs, rather than because it serves the needs of others and protects them in love!

    …the truth in love…

    Would you know it if it came up and slapped you in the face?

    Was Jesus crashing and overturning the tables in the temple just a fit of unrighteous anger and sin? Or was it a provocative example of speaking the truth in love?

    Do you know the difference?

    Does no one actually speak the truth in love in your life!

    Perhaps one day they will!

    Perhaps, even more so, one day when they do you, unlike the LIFEST team, will “hear” what is being spoke to you in love for you and others!

    And you will do the right thing about it all!

    Sad state of spiritual and intellectual affairs you seem to reveal in your life and that of the LIFEST team! Just what job do you hold with them? What is at risk for you speaking or hearing and believing THE TRUTH, pundit? It seems, again, that your screen name reveals much about you… criticizing things that you neither know nor truly care about!

    How’s that working for you?

    Who cares?

    Good luck with that!

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    Wow, just wow.

  • Cpowell

    Badjer Bugler,

    My goodness, what kind of pastor are you and who are you to judge? Numerous times you have made yourself out to sound like the almighty prophet that warned the “mean guys” at LifePromotions of what could go wrong. Everything you spew sounds evil and vindictive. Did someone’s church grow bigger than yours? It seems like you have inner resentment for some of these people at LifePromotions.

    Leave it alone and let the law step in and be the judge.

    And for the record while in the past I have come across some real creeps working for LifeFest I have also come across some wonderful and amazing people working for the same organization. Face it there are great people and not so great people everywhere.

    And it sounds more to me like maybe you wanted a job somewhere that you didn’t get.

    What church was it again that you pastor?

  • Badger Bugler

    CPOWELL WROTE:

    Badjer Bugler,

    “My goodness, what kind of pastor are you and who are you to judge?”

    I AM SORRY YOU THINK I am judging. I am only speaking truth about what I saw and what others did entirely related to safety, potential injury and death at LIFEST! Sorry that I have apparently done so in a way you do not like or sounds the way you think it does. The only intent here is for the whole truth to be known.

    “Numerous times you have made yourself out to sound like the almighty prophet that warned the “mean guys” at LifePromotions of what could go wrong.”

    IT IS YOU WHO SAY that I am. However, if that is the truth, then so be it. I am not happy to be in this position. You appear to be glad to attack someone speaking the truth where and when you cannot attack the truth itself. Sort of Phariseeaical, yourself, don’t you think?

    “Everything you spew sounds evil and vindictive.”

    YES, CPOWELL, what I spew is about evil things done that caused injury to many and may have caused the death of one!

    “Did someone’s church grow bigger than yours?”

    EVERY CHURCH IS bigger than mine, since the one true Church belongs to Christ alone.

    “It seems like you have inner resentment for some of these people at LifePromotions.”

    No personal resentment, only that a deplore misconduct and deceit and reckless disregard for the life of any other by any person, in our out of the church. I hate the sin without hating the sinner. That you miss the distinction may well be my fault for the passion and force with which I feel compelled to speak the truth. I am sorry that it is so strong, but a proportinate response is often required and rarely offered or recieved.

    “Leave it alone and let the law step in and be the judge.”

    YEAH, leave it alone so that the “whole truth and nothing but the truth” is missed by the silence of those in the know who were at the scene of various moral, spiritual and potentially legal crimes… The same thing Adam did in the Graden: stayed silent as Satan taunted and tempted Eve into a sing which led to the death and fall of all that God ever created or would be created by Him in and through the fallen. Adam was silent. LIFEST leaders were silent! God is not silent! He told us in Ezekiel and elsewhere that we will answer for the blood of those who die from our silence and tells me and you to speak all truth and warning for the protection of others. He does not say, “remain silent and let the civil authorities deal with it because the church isn’t gonna like the way you speak the truth”! He says to “sound the trumpet” out of love and concern for the lives of those around you!

    I am truly sorry you do not like the way I’ve done it, but what would you have done if you saw and did and said what I did and got the same response? Would you have remained silent? Don’t ask me what the result of that is, since God will tell you first hand in Ezekiel! Why do you tell someone following His watchman charge to be silent? It is not that I had anything to lose or am bitter about anything! What I wonder is what connection you have to LIFEST that would allow you to publicly say that other kids and parents should not know about such misconduct, and that Elizabeth Mohl’s family and the DA and State Investigators sold not know what I saw and said and did and they did and did not do…

    I won’t waste any more of your time addressing pastoral responsibility. It is the “hands off” laissez faire approach to faith and life that I suppose repules many atheists, who see Christians as more concerned with their own welfare than that of the world. No doubt, you’re helping their cause here!

    “And for the record while in the past I have come across some real creeps working for LifeFest I have also come across some wonderful and amazing people working for the same organization. Face it there are great people and not so great people everywhere.”

    YES, THANK YOU! I agree with you. And, again, I am sorry if I left the impression there are not. I have never said that and did not mean that. But that is not the issue here. The issue is that, as I saw it, certain particular people in leadership roles with LIFEST were responsible for contemporaneously documented acts/sins of ommission and commission with respect to the welfare and lives of many, including concert goers and Air Glory riders. They are the ones responsible. My report to state investigators and interviews with the DA clearly outline that. This is not a puff magazine piece, but a report about possible crimes. They’re not interested in everything that went right, but what went wrong and information that may enlighten them in their investigation, wherever it goes and however it ends. My only agenda is that they have the whole truth, including my testimony. Will you be a witness? Do you suppose they’ll call you? What will you have to say? Will it be relevant to the investigation? If so, God demands that you speak the truth. If not, then remain rightly silent, since the essential prerequisitie to saying something relevant is having something relevant to say!

    “And it sounds more to me like maybe you wanted a job somewhere that you didn’t get.”

    YEAH, sort of wanted to work for LIFEST after working for the POPE and BILLY GRAHAM. Big step up! There are great Christian people who have oluneeed and peomed, and all is ea in hat respect, but the idea that someone is a bitter, spurned or disgruntled wanna be or former employee (etc.) none of which I am is always a nice way to throw up smoke and mirrors and never deal with the truth. Sort of like blaming the rape victim for being raped. Sad approach you have to such serious matters.

    “What church was it again that you pastor?”

    One in which you would undoubtedly feel too uncomfortable to call home, which is fine!

    As Jesus said, “All who say Lord, Lord will not be with me in heaven!”

    So, just what is your role with LIFE!Promotions and LIFEST?

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free” from your bitterness and angry tirade against me for speaking the truth. As Paul told the disciples, “It matters not that they speak the truth of the Gospel for righteousness sake, for in either case, the truth goes forth!”

    You would do well to appreciate that even in my imperfect way and sins and failures, the truth of what I have written is no less true because you don’t like me or the way I said it.

  • Badger Bugler

    CPOWELL WROTE:

    Badjer Bugler,

    “My goodness, what kind of pastor are you and who are you to judge?”

    I AM SORRY YOU THINK I am judging. I am only speaking truth about what I saw and what others did entirely related to safety, potential injury and death at LIFEST! Sorry that I have apparently done so in a way you do not like or sounds the way you think it does. The only intent here is for the whole truth to be known.

    “Numerous times you have made yourself out to sound like the almighty prophet that warned the “mean guys” at LifePromotions of what could go wrong.”

    IT IS YOU WHO SAY that I am. However, if that is the truth, then so be it. I am not happy to be in this position. You appear to be glad to attack someone speaking the truth where and when you cannot attack the truth itself. Sort of Phariseeaical, yourself, don’t you think?

    “Everything you spew sounds evil and vindictive.”

    YES, CPOWELL, what I spew is about evil things done that caused injury to many and may have caused the death of one!

    “Did someone’s church grow bigger than yours?”

    EVERY CHURCH IS bigger than mine, since the one true Church belongs to Christ alone.

    “It seems like you have inner resentment for some of these people at LifePromotions.”

    No personal resentment, only that a deplore misconduct and deceit and reckless disregard for the life of any other by any person, in our out of the church. I hate the sin without hating the sinner. That you miss the distinction may well be my fault for the passion and force with which I feel compelled to speak the truth. I am sorry that it is so strong, but a proportinate response is often required and rarely offered or recieved.

    “Leave it alone and let the law step in and be the judge.”

    YEAH, leave it alone so that the “whole truth and nothing but the truth” is missed by the silence of those in the know who were at the scene of various moral, spiritual and potentially legal crimes… The same thing Adam did in the Graden: stayed silent as Satan taunted and tempted Eve into a sing which led to the death and fall of all that God ever created or would be created by Him in and through the fallen. Adam was silent. LIFEST leaders were silent! God is not silent! He told us in Ezekiel and elsewhere that we will answer for the blood of those who die from our silence and tells me and you to speak all truth and warning for the protection of others. He does not say, “remain silent and let the civil authorities deal with it because the church isn’t gonna like the way you speak the truth”! He says to “sound the trumpet” out of love and concern for the lives of those around you!

    I am truly sorry you do not like the way I’ve done it, but what would you have done if you saw and did and said what I did and got the same response? Would you have remained silent? Don’t ask me what the result of that is, since God will tell you first hand in Ezekiel! Why do you tell someone following His watchman charge to be silent? It is not that I had anything to lose or am bitter about anything! What I wonder is what connection you have to LIFEST that would allow you to publicly say that other kids and parents should not know about such misconduct, and that Elizabeth Mohl’s family and the DA and State Investigators sold not know what I saw and said and did and they did and did not do…

    I won’t waste any more of your time addressing pastoral responsibility. It is the “hands off” laissez faire approach to faith and life that I suppose repules many atheists, who see Christians as more concerned with their own welfare than that of the world. No doubt, you’re helping their cause here!

    “And for the record while in the past I have come across some real creeps working for LifeFest I have also come across some wonderful and amazing people working for the same organization. Face it there are great people and not so great people everywhere.”

    YES, THANK YOU! I agree with you. And, again, I am sorry if I left the impression there are not. I have never said that and did not mean that. But that is not the issue here. The issue is that, as I saw it, certain particular people in leadership roles with LIFEST were responsible for contemporaneously documented acts/sins of ommission and commission with respect to the welfare and lives of many, including concert goers and Air Glory riders. They are the ones responsible. My report to state investigators and interviews with the DA clearly outline that. This is not a puff magazine piece, but a report about possible crimes. They’re not interested in everything that went right, but what went wrong and information that may enlighten them in their investigation, wherever it goes and however it ends. My only agenda is that they have the whole truth, including my testimony. Will you be a witness? Do you suppose they’ll call you? What will you have to say? Will it be relevant to the investigation? If so, God demands that you speak the truth. If not, then remain rightly silent, since the essential prerequisitie to saying something relevant is having something relevant to say!

    “And it sounds more to me like maybe you wanted a job somewhere that you didn’t get.”

    YEAH, sort of wanted to work for LIFEST after working for the POPE and BILLY GRAHAM. Big step up! There are great Christian people who have oluneeed and peomed, and all is ea in hat respect, but the idea that someone is a bitter, spurned or disgruntled wanna be or former employee (etc.) none of which I am is always a nice way to throw up smoke and mirrors and never deal with the truth. Sort of like blaming the rape victim for being raped. Sad approach you have to such serious matters.

    “What church was it again that you pastor?”

    One in which you would undoubtedly feel too uncomfortable to call home, which is fine!

    As Jesus said, “All who say Lord, Lord will not be with me in heaven!”

    So, just what is your role with LIFE!Promotions and LIFEST?

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free” from your bitterness and angry tirade against me for speaking the truth. As Paul told the disciples, “It matters not that they do not speak the truth of the Gospel for righteousness sake, for in either case, the truth goes forth!”

    I do speak it for righteousness sake, that others might judge. But we are all called to exercise wisdom and discernment and hold others accountable to church and civil authority. I am doing what is required of me in both realms. I am only a witness, with ohes who will serve as judge, jury and “executioner” of anyone deemed responsible and/or negligent, etc. Clearly, in the little you know or want to know and want others to know, it seems clear what sort of juror you’d be and verdict you’d deliver!

    It’s the silence of Adam and the work of a Judas Goat that you have insisted I should manifest as in their silence, I lead or allow to be led the lambs of God to the slaughter!

    Shhh! Helmut! Quiet and let the authorities deal with what the’re doing to the Jews in Berlin! They’ll take care of it without your help!

    Quiet, Yakov, Uncle Joseph would never do that to our Comrades in Kiev or Baba Yar or in the Lubyanka!

    Never you mind! Be quiet, friend, they would never take little Anne Frank to such a place!

    No, a President would never do that in the White House with an intern!

    Quiet and leave Iraq alone! I don’t care that Saddam gassed 180,000 kurds, there are no WMDs and we have no right to intercede to save human life!

    Shhh! Nooo! Quiet! Silence!

    With so much not wanting to judge people, why don’t you just stay silent too and leave me alone? Why do you feel you have the right to “judge” and chastise me? (An interesting double standard you hold.)

    Debates like this are the very reason that, oddly enough, I am little swayed by such “reasoning” and “logic” and “wisdom” and “discernment” and “criticism” as yours. After it all, you betray the unreasonable, illogical, unwise, undiscerning and uncritical nature of your thinking, and while such processes go on interminably, people get hurt and die! All the more, you have me believing you are one of the people I did, in fact, tell about this ahead of time who refused to do anything about it. As Ezekiel knew, guilt and blood payments demanded of the silent are terrible and eternally terrible things!

    Elizabeth Mohl has paid the price for that silence and inaction!

    Do more have to do so (in all sorts of areas of global life — across the street and around the world), before you’ll speak up and give a voice to the voiceless?!

    You would do well to appreciate that even in my imperfect way and sins and failures, the truth of what I have written is no less true because you don’t like me or the way I said it. That’s the same with God’s Word itself: it is no less true because an atheist doesn’t want to believe it, doesn’t like the way the story’s old, or hates the thought (Ooohh, did this guy really admit this after being so “judgmental”?) that God has reserved for Himself the power to judge and punish or grant reprieves in the ETERNAL REALM those who have broken the laws of man and God, sinned and repented!

  • Badger Bugler

    CPOWELL

    P.S. By the way… Are you a Christian? How do you deal with “Be angry but do not sin in anger!” How do you deal with the “God is Love” thing in the face of the Jesus who ransacked the Temple, tossed the belongings and turned over the tables of the money changers? What about “righteous” anger? Do you suppose Jesus would be angry over what happened at LIFEST? Dozens were injured AND A GIRL DIED for God’s sake (almost literally)! Just what does it take to get you angry enough to do the right thing? Are you the same guy who stood silent as they dragged Jesus off to His death, whispering to your friend, “Leave it alone, let the civil authorities take care of it and do nothing that might help prevent injury or death to Him!”?

    If you are right, you will never hear of my report or testimony to the authorities. If I am right, you probably will. If you are right and I am wrong, my character and integrity will be meaningless and worse than destroyed. I am not interested in spiritual or reputational suicide. But, as Jim Elliot wrote, “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” I will freely give the truth given unto me to gain the approval of my Lord and Savior, not men. And without presuming upon grace, I also submit myself to HIS authority for correction and punishment for any sin I committed along the way, even those I might have committed in the way you wish me and others to believe.

    Do you, CPOWELL, wish to hear the praises of men, as you think I should seek from you, or do you wish to hear from Him, Well done, my good and faithful servant. As you did it to these … you did it to me!”

    “As you do it for/unto the least of these, my brethren, you do it for/unto me. As you fail to do it for/unto the least of these, my brethren, you fail to do it for/unto me!”

    Or are you willing to risk Him saying, “Depart from me, I did not know you! … You failed to do it unto the least of these … you failed to do it unto me!”

    Your real issue is not with me here, it is with Jesus Christ!

    I “know The Truth and The Truth has set [me] free”!

    As a law enforcement officer said over a much more serious matter, “The refiner’s fire is always necessary and rarely sought out.”

    Ask and you shall receive!

    Seek and you shall find!

    Knock and it shall be opened unto you!

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    For the record:
    Badger Bugler’s current word count is at 8318. Given an average typing speed of 40 words/minute, that’s ~3.5 hours for actual typing, not including time spent thinking.

  • Richard Wade

    Thinking?

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com/ olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    How do you deal with the “God is Love” thing in the face of the Jesus who ransacked the Temple, tossed the belongings and turned over the tables of the money changers?

    I’ve got no problem with Jesus overturning the money changers’ tables. “God is love”, I don’t seem to recall Jesus saying this, can you provide a reference? It’s something that some mystics have said but I don’t remember it being attributed to Jesus. What I get from the story of the money changers is that the world of commerce and regarding the world in terms of business transactions is essentially opposed to anything that is moral. The purpose of life isn’t the accumulation of wealth. If you stop seeing people in terms of objects to be used or exploited but as having intrinsic worth and rights then everything changes. I suppose you could fit it into the observation that “God is love”, if you wanted to go that way, but I’d just say that commerce is incompatible with morality and life.

  • Cpowell

    Badjer Bugler
    If Lifefest didn’t have it’s christian name over it you wouldn’t have thought twice to step foot in this debate.

    “dozens got injured” I’m sure that statement is true, but what else would you expect to happen with a gaggle of teens bodying surfing to Skillet. How many “injuries” do you think happen at Lalapalooza or CornerStone or other such music fest.

    You cannot honestly expect LifeFest leaders to put their protective wings over everyone. You cannont expect that just because LifeFest is a christian festival no one can get hurt.

    So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you. You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud, thats slandor and if I am correct very against biblical principles. But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around. I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.

    By the way I am sorry you had to endure working for the Pope?!?! My husband is in the Military so I suppose he could say he works for the President. The usher at church could claim to work for the pope.

    And for the record I am very familiar with most of the churches in the Fox Valley area, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in any of them, religion and spiritualality just don’t do that to me.

  • Teresa Jones

    Badger Bugler: keep speaking!
    One problem I have with this is that the Life Promotions people hide behind a veneer of Christianity when in fact it is a money-making machine. Nothing wrong with making money but not at the expense of safety and health.
    I wanted to volunteer this year on the medical staff but found out that the medical director was an EMT! In previous years, an ER physician ran the show and his team did a fantastic job of “fixing broken thumbs” and anything else that came that way. Where was the medical team when all of this occurred? How fast was the response time? Did a nurse or doctor show up to take care of Elizabeth? My understanding is that she was in surgery for 6 hours so the surgeon at least thought she had a fighting chance. That means that the first few minutes after impact were critical in her care. In the broader picture, why was an ER doctor replaced with an EMT? Who’s idea was that? The person at Life Promotions who made THAT decision has a lot of accounting to do.
    Any Christian who believes this was “God’s plan” needs to get back to the bible. The book of Job shows us that “bad things happen to good people” (or as I like to say the “shit happens theory of the universe”). And usually it happens because people make the wrong decisions, not biblically based, that end up causing harm.

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    olvlzl,
    “God is Love” predates those mystics: 1st John 4:8 & 16 both say that “God is love,” and while the so-called “Love Chapter” of 1st Corinthians (its 13th) doesn’t have the exact quote, the prose (at least in translation) is rather beautiful:

    If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal…If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud… It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

    When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    Nevertheless, there is a much better argument that God’s primary characteristic in the Old and New Testaments is Holiness, not Love.

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    Globilizati, those are letters attributed to John the apostle and Paul, they aren’t allegedly quotes from Jesus. The letters of “John” aren’t long enough to really get a grasp on whether the author(s) are mystics. Paul, my guess is that that passage wasn’t actually by the same author as some of the other letters attributed to Paul. In any case, the evidence all points to Paul never having known or heard Jesus.

    If you start with the idea that God is infinite, all powerful, all knowing, etc. then any definition is bound to be incomplete and idolatrous.

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    olvlzl,
    Sorry to be imprecise; I wasn’t claiming those were quotes from Jesus at all. I was thinking your reference to “some mystics” was referring to later Christians instead of Biblical authors.

    Of course Paul didn’t even claim to know Jesus in person, but only through visions and talking to others who might have known Jesus. The letters of his that are authentic (I’m not sure if 1st Corinthians falls in that category in its entirety, I’d have to research it) are probably the earliest extant Christian writings, so Paul may have a better shot at getting the message of Jesus straight than many of the Gospels and such that came later.

    If you start with the idea that God is infinite, all powerful, all knowing, etc. then any definition is bound to be incomplete and idolatrous.

    Agreed. Of course, the Bible certainly contains many attempts to describe (moreso than define) God despite his allegedly all-encompassing nature. All of those varied attempts at description by authors from different backgrounds give you a whole lot of text from which an infinite number of assertions about the nature of God and his Will may be derived. (Thus you get the incredible flexibility of Christianity that has allowed it to survive in variations as diverse as medieval Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and the modern emergent church.) I was merely trying to say that there are more descriptions of God as Holy in the Bible than as Love. I can’t think of any term that is used to describe God more often than Holy. Do you concur?

  • carol

    http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=6814554

    The above link is to an ABC news report regarding the tragic accident that took the life of 16 year old Elizabeth Mohl which was reported “yesterday afternoon”.

    By admission of Gary Ross (owner and operator of the ride), operator error was responsible for this accident.

    To Badger Bugler, I am wondering how an accident caused by operator error at a Christian festival could be the cause of attacks, controversy and accusations?

  • Badger Bugler

    globalizati said,

    July 20, 2007 at 12:56 am

    For the record:
    Badger Bugler’s current word count is at 8318. Given an average typing speed of 40 words/minute, that’s ~3.5 hours for actual typing, not including time spent thinking.

    >>YEAH, GLOBALI-NAZI: But the TRUTH COUNT is much higher, the whole equaling much more than the sum of its parts, an all! Also, since facts aren’t important to you, you wold actually have no idea how fast I type. For that matter, is 3.5 hours (even if it were right) too much time to spend invested on telling the truth, protecting others and doing the right thing?

    You must be an atheist or very bored and disinterested, disengaged, dispossessed, disheartened, heretical and/or apostate Christian. With your standards, the Bible would be a pamphlet!

    I can almost certainly hear you now. You were there when they crucified the Lord, sceaming, “Crucify Him! Let is blood be on our hands and on our children’s…”!

    And I hear the echo, there on Calvary, from the hillside days before (your voice again?): “Alright, already, Jesus! Enough already with the long parables! Jusst say it straight! You have all the Power, you say! Why not just give us the Power Point version! Bullet points, Jesus! Bullet points. Oh, that’s right, we haven’t invented bullets yet! Well, nail points, Jesus! Nail points! I’ve followed you for three years and I still don’t get a word you’re saying! Would you just, for once and for all, cut to the chariot chase?! For once!? For all!? My Blackberry’s beeping, I got a Temple Council meeting in 10 minutes (we’re voting on whether to turn over some nut job Messiah wanna be who keeps talking about the Kingdom of God and rightesouness and he’s making us all very nervous) and my wife wants me to trade in our 10 year old donkey for the latest model! And speaking of models, I met this incredible woman at the brothel last week who looked just like that broad in last month’s issue of BATHSHEBA MONTHLY! Wheew weee! Let me tell you…”

    P.S. Your word count, whatever it is, is that much too much, since you have not said one thing to correct or refute any fact stated by me or anyone else. You are just a scoffer, critic and ostrich. Your head is buried on weak and shifting sand, while my feet are firmly on the ROCK!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

    July 20, 2007 at 5:51 am

    How do you deal with the “God is Love” thing in the face of the Jesus who ransacked the Temple, tossed the belongings and turned over the tables of the money changers? ’ve got no problem with Jesus overturning the money changers’ tables. “God is love”, I don’t seem to recall Jesus saying
    this, can you provide a reference?

    > THANK YOY, AS YOU ARE BASICALLY CORRECT. I was responding to the earlier assertion by someone who does not like me or what I’ve done who said, directly, I believe, that a “God is love” and hands off you are not to judge” attitude and theology should be the reason I stay quiet and particularly say nothing since these are fellow Christians!

    YOU: What I get from the story of the money changers is that the world of commerce and regarding the world in terms of business transactions is essentially opposed to anything that is moral. The purpose of life isn’t the accumulation of wealth. If you stop seeing people in terms of objects to be used or exploited but as having intrinsic worth and rights then everything changes. I suppose you could fit it into the observation that “God is love”, if you wanted to go that way, but I’d just say that commerce is incompatible with morality and life.

    > INTERESTING TO NOTE THE later post by someone who says she had been on the medical team, who addresses this from opinion and insider’s first hand experience. Her comment about the qualifications of those in charge is actually one the State Investigators and DA discussed with me! Interesting to see who else offers this assessment, particularly those with professio al experience, as I have in the Security and law enforcement areas (pastor is an avocation, folks, even in Scripture. Also, having been a leader/director at dozens of such events from 600 to 80,000, and one on the DC Mall including around a million, I have truly never seen any “Christian” event so commerical in character or attitude byt he Senior leaders, in particular. As always, the artists were very good and honorable, as were most all volunteers, but it is not RUN by them or shaped by them, nor is the media relations machine that is already dissemintating disinformation from as high up as the LIFE PROMOTIONS board of directors (of which I have first hand knowledge and names)! This event was, in great part, about money, and the post-death machinations are almost certainly about that, and preventing legal consequences that appear to be richly desereved. Many of those leaders were clearing walking around saying “Christ…” (Lord, Lord) but I did not see them walking with or in Christ. That, in this case, is why I believe what hapened happened!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Cpowell said,

    July 20, 2007 at 7:47 am

    Badjer Bugler

    If Lifefest didn’t have it’s christian name over it you wouldn’t have thought twice to step foot in this debate.

    > I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THAT IS SUPPOSED to mean. The debate has nothing to do with it. The fact that I am a Christian who was at that “Chrstian event” and saw things related to the incidents in question. YOU,my friend, are the one whose motives are clearly suspicious and remain in absolute questionb, wwhether you are a Christian or atheist. I am not attacking Chritsians, Christianity or the cause of Christ. I am speaking the truth of what I did and saw. GROW UP, live with that, and until you wish to speak a fact about this incident and event, it is you who should, perhaps, consider stopping your posts and examining whether it is you who are doing as you accuse me of doing! AGAIN, just what role do/did you have in LEFST and/or LIFE!PROMOTIONS?!

    YOU: “dozens got injured” I’m sure that statement is true, but what else would you expect to happen with a gaggle of teens bodying surfing to Skillet.

    > I CAN SHOW and am providing the investigators with letters from LIFEST’S SEcurity leaders stating that no such thing would happen and that it would be my job and theat of the entire LIFEST Security Strike Team to stop it instantly. I will waste no more time detailing the stupidityb and willful neligence here, which will come out from my report to investigators. Suffice it to say, we were instructed on being recruited andon arriv ing in Oshkosh that it would be stopped. Instead, LIFEST Security broke that rule, negotiated with certain moshers and eventually pulled Security off the floor instead of doing their stated jobs — that including an intentional body lock and head spike to the ground of a student by an adult, which I intervened on and was immediately punished for by an entirely unqualified 20-ish girl with no professional expeience.

    When you get a clue God could do great things with you (or the world, if you are not a believer)!

    YOU: You cannot honestly expect LifeFest leaders to put their protective wings over everyone. You cannont expect that just because LifeFest is a christian festival no one can get hurt.

    >YOU CONFUSE TWO OR THREE THINGS. LIFEST recruited me to do just that in my role and instructed me to do that. It promised guests. It is not about guaranteeting success and belioeving no one would get hurt. You are talking about a “sour grapes” approach and attitude, which is not what I have at all! I am talking about willful ignorance and negliegnce and refusal to even enforce, let alone attempt to enforce their stated policies in reckless disregard for the extremeley high potential for injury to limb and life. Finally, as another poster wrote after you, the next question is whether they were prepared , just as you (presumably a lay person) would know to be ready for injuries at any such even, Christian or otherwise, and with a qualified staff. Individuals may have been qualified, but leaders apparently were not to handle the potential number of injuries or the type of injuries. This is negligence and forseeale, jus as you noe!o injuy and o human lie
    So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you. You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud, thats slandor and if I am correct very against biblical principles. But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around. I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.

    By the way, there is a time honored principle of preparation for all such events where conflict or injury and death might be present: PREPARE for what could happen, not for what you think might happen. The former covers it all, the latter the limitations of one’s mind.

    YOU: By the way I am sorry you had to endure working for the Pope?!?! My husband is in the Military so I suppose he could say he works for the President.

    >ACTUALLY, though irrelevant to the discussion, your comment shows just how poorly you reason. The fact is, your husband does, by law, work under the diredct command of the president The officers above him (maybe even your husband) are commissioned and appointed by the President.

    However, suffice it to say that I have very strong opinions on the history of the Catholic Church and the “power andf authority” of the “Pope.” In the end, the Bible tells us that we are to serve under the Kingshop and authority of Christ and Christ alone. That someone is above us in a worldly “power” structure — whether secular or “sacred” — does not mean we are obligated to follow orders, including military ones, that might be illegal or unbiblical. That means we have to also be willing to take the punishment of the world for that, awaiting the rewards of faith and heaven. It is no less true in “the Church” or “ministry.” My faith in Christ — whether shared with LIFEST leaders — obligates me to (in His words) “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and unto God that which is God’s.” Thus, not only am I obligated to speak the truth I know (unlike you who are writing with no facts and absolute ingnorance, unless, of course the reason you will not answer questions about yourself and attack everything other than facts is because you and/or your hubsand are/were on staff there and know more than you want anyone to know, fearing for your own culpability), to the government authorities, but also as unto God and the Church, Christians and ministry “authorities” and all of the people — Christian or not — they presumed and promised and are still otherwise obligated by civil and biblical law (see Ezekiel 33) are supposed to be protecting and serving! (As the wife of a military servant, you know this, though, don’t you!?Even if he never speaks these words, your husband works with under the title and authority that proclaims him PROPHET and PROTECTOR: Danger will come and I am hpised here to PROTECT and to SEVRE in the name of my king (president) and the King of Kings! But you criticize and rail on me for performing the same duty! Hmmm… Are you a bitter Army or Marine wife? Perhpas you have just not yet seen that what I am trying and called to do here is what your husband does every day! And as one who witnessed these things first hand!

    Would yo have soldiers remain silent about what was happening at Walter Reed?

    Abu Ghriab?

    Examine your heart!

    My lai?

    Bataan?

    Buchenwald?

    Just where, then, does the silence end?

    On what have you remained silent in your life and the lives of others upon which God was not silent?

    YOU: The usher at church could claim to work for the pope.

    >YEAH, the same guy who last week said he was the Pope, and, the week before, the Messiah!

    YOU: And for the record I am very familiar with most of the churches in the Fox Valley area, I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable in any of them, religion and spiritualality just don’t do that to me.

    > AHHHH Finally a truth from you! Personal experience. I cannot challenge your personal experience, and would abe a dishonoring fool to do so. I must trust that it is what you say it is, whether I know churches and leaders there or do not! (Great leaders do not make for great followers! Great followers do not make for great leaders! Such are mutualy exclusive considerations!) Your experience is uniquely yours. Should I accuse you of all manner of lies and wrong miotives in saying what you have? As you’ve done to me!? You have imposed a double standard. I have not! You are speaking truth from your own experience and I am doing the same from mine. Both are the truth and not in conflict with the other!

    By the way, I am no defender of Kool Aid makers, sellers or drinkers! I mght well agree with you on those churches if I knew the particulars, and am not asking for them. However, rather than just “slam” LIFEST or criticize the,m I gave the reasons why I would not wish anyone I know to attend such events or pars of tsuch events! Right now, I believe LIFEST leaders are, in the wake of the death of Elizabeth Mohl, making and advertising and selling Kool Aid under the banner of Jesus Christ! And far too many people are drinking it! And to their literal and eternal peril! (See Ezekiel 33) And given what you know about the churches you attended in the Fox Valley, would you recommend that your friends attend those churches

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Teresa Jones said,

    July 20, 2007 at 8:48 am

    Badger Bugler: keep speaking!

    One problem I have with this is that the Life Promotions people hide behind a veneer of Christianity when in fact it is a money-making machine. Nothing wrong with making money but not at the expense of safety and health.
    I wanted to volunteer this year on the medical staff but found out that the medical director was an EMT! In previous years, an ER physician ran the show and his team did a fantastic job of “fixing broken thumbs” and anything else that came that way. Where was the medical team when all of this occurred? How fast was the response time? Did a nurse or doctor show up to take care of Elizabeth? My understanding is that she was in surgery for 6 hours so the surgeon at least thought she had a fighting chance. That means that the first few minutes after impact were critical in her care. In the broader picture, why was an ER doctor replaced with an EMT? Who’s idea was that? The person at Life Promotions who made THAT decision has a lot of accounting to do.

    >DEAR TERESA: I was feeling like I was crying alone in the wilderness! Thank you for speeaking the truth you know from first hand experience!

    YOU: Any Christian who believes this was “God’s plan” needs to get back to the bible.

    > AND to those atheist who have joked about God not being a good catcher or saying “oops” and all other manner of hateful and ignorant garbage, the Christian Church must not forget, as you demonstrate, Teresa, that we are also an Old Testament Church called to do just as he instructed, and you are doing according to Ezekiel 33! God did not let Liz “slip from His hadns” or “fail to catch her”, either literally or figuratively (spiritually). He assigned that task to the men adn women around her, and “we” failed in that Ezekiel 33 duty! As I think you are saying, Teresa: “God didn’t do this! We did it! He didn’t let Liz down! We did We’re to blame! We ‘Christyians’! Attack us, but not God! He was not silent! He told us in Ezekiel what to do! We were silent! Her blood is not on His hands, but on ours!”

    YOU: The book of Job shows us that “bad things happen to good people” (or as I like to say the “shit happens theory of the universe”). And usually it happens because people make the wrong decisions, not biblically based, that end up causing harm.

    > I THINK I UNDERSTAND what you are saying, Teresa, though I wouldn’t have used “that” word. But I do feel what you feel in that respect. It seems to me that you, Teresa, see and feel and are trying to communicate (correct me if I am wrong, as I trust you will do in the spirit of truth and love) something that too many others (both here and at LIFEST) apparently do not: “Thousands were put at risk of serious injury and death, MANY PEOPLE WERE SERIOUSLY INJURED and NEARLY KILLED and A GIRL DIED! FOR GOD’S SAKE, WHAT DOES IT TAKE TO GET YOU PEOPLE ANGRY AND MOVED OUT OF THE COMFORT ZONES OF YOUR COLD, HARD HEARTS AND MINDS AND VOICES TO TAKE ANY RIGHT ACTION AT ALL?! A GIRL DIED!

    Now, Teresa, just imagine whether others will criticize your language and lambaste you. They seem quite intent on and capable of basting the Lamb of God, so there’s no reason we shold be surprised when they lambaste the lambs of that Lamb as He serves as Our Good Shepherd and theirs! They only refuse to follow Him! (As he said, “When they do it to you, remember that they did it to me first!”) They are more concerned with appearances and tone here than truth, so it will be interesting whether they let your words and tone go. I hope you understand I am not saying this in criticism of you, but wondering aloud about their ability to reason, see truth and process it all with wisdom and discernment. I didn’t like “a word” but I heard you speaking truth and drawing right conclusions, as flawed as I might think that moment! YOU GO, GIRL! (All respect and no sexism intended!)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    globalizati said,

    July 20, 2007 at 9:16 am

    olvlzl,

    When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

    > SADLY INTERESTING (but no surprise) that you seem to relish theological discussions but have little or no interest, wisdom or discernment to apply them to the things and facts and realities of life, which the Christian faith is to be all about! “Faith without works is dead!” “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind! And love your neighbor as you love yourself!” A lot of self love here, but too little for one’s “neighbor”! given your arguments so far here. The reason? Because you clearly you still think like a child and see in a mirror but darkly! You see the speck in my eye while missing the log in your own and that of the LIFEST “leaders”! Or just can’t see past your own to see whatever it is in mine and that of the LIFEST leaders!

    In the end, such follishness is turning you all into advocates of a LIE-FEST!

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com/ olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    Badjer Bugler, you know not me.

  • Badger Bugler

    olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

    July 20, 2007 at 5:14 pm

    Badjer Bugler, you know not me.

    YOU ARE CORRECT at least not by that anonymous name, though you may well be a LIFEST staffer whom I met then and now in sheep’s clothing!

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com/ olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    YOU ARE CORRECT at least not by that anonymous name, though you may well be a LIFEST staffer whom I met then and now in sheep’s clothing!

    Hey, if you’re right then I want to see my pay check and I want to see it now.

    If you wanted to prove my point, Badjer Bugler, you couldn’t have chosen a better way to do it. I don’t happen to be a Christian and I despise that genre of pop music. In fact, I hate pop music with few exceptions. You couldn’t drag me there with four horses of the apocalypse.

  • Badger Bugler

    Amen, qerohgfvadfjyiurgf (I can’t remember how to spell your name, and I don’t have the page up right now, but an eaarlier saved version!)!

    But GIDDY-UP, if God directs! (You’re probably LOL right now!)

    I’d probably resist being dragged back, but will go where God takes me! I will plead for ear plugs, though! To block out the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth!

    I would have never picked any of that music, but a few of the artists I met seemed to be genuinely good people (whether Christian or not — just as you might well be a great person)! I went because my adult daughter invited me, as she was part of a leadership team of a youth group!

    Safe travels, friend in matching ear muffs!

  • Badger Bugler

    THIS PERSON WROTE:
    Author: carol
    Comment:
    http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=6814554

    The above link is to an ABC news report regarding the tragic accident that took the life of 16 year old Elizabeth Mohl which was reported “yesterday afternoon”.

    By admission of Gary Ross (owner and operator of the ride), operator error was responsible for this accident.

    To Badger Bugler, I am wondering how an accident caused by operator error at a Christian festival could be the cause of attacks, controversy and accusations?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    REPLY:

    While your question is not clear, Carol, I think you are trying to ask WHY WOULD LIFEST be responsible for anything, then?

    The answer is, I know things you do not that say that LIFEST had opportunities and confrontations with the operator over other safety violations and should have ordered it shut down.

    What happened at the moment does not mean that there were not other things that occured before hand that might have prevented it.

    Just like the inspection could show it perfectly “safe” in all ways, but one should not assume it is safe at a given moment thereafter, due to operator error.

    I will also say this: I do not believe that it was innocent operator error, but part of a pattern of abuse of the equipment, policies, procedures, harnesses, etc., and negligence, not “innocent error.” So, the admission is fine, if it is, but does not resolve all of the questions or ramifications, technical and legal, etc. of what happened.

    Finally, for those who haven’t caught it, I have already spoken with investigators and am set to meet with them again next week! If necessary and appropriate, I also will be prepared to publicly release a 14 page report I prepared at their request!

    It does seem that you might disagree with my comments, but thank you, Carol, for having the courtesy to ask for an explanation. I hope this answers your question.

  • Badger Bugler

    By the way Carol, this story was not posted YESTERDAY but tonight, as the following from the WBAY web link you provided reveals (and I comment at the end):

    Oshkosh
    Safety Device at Center of Air Glory Investigation

    July 20, 2007 05:33 PM CDT

    by Natalie Arnold

    The Winnebago district attorney reveals what he believes is at the heart of the state’s probe. The DA says the Air Glory operator admitted a mistake was made.

    That mistake, the District Attorney Christian Gossett says, involves this a D-ring on Air Glory that attaches the rider’s harness to the cables.

    Sixteen year old Elizabeth Mohl died after falling from the ride Air Glory at Lifest.

    Gossett wasn’t able to talk on camera, he still explained to Action 2 News what he saw and heard on the scene right after the accident.

    He says Air Glory was using a D-ring. one. It had a spring action and a twist lock, but the DA is revealing now that the D-ring for Elizabeth Mohl was not locked.

    The clip or gate, the DA says on Mohl’s D-ring was free to open at anytime. Gossett says Air Glory operator’s Gary Ross admitted the problem to him and other authorities. Ross discovered the unlocked when he rushed to Mohl after she fell to the ground.

    It leaves many to speculate, especially those in the climbing community who rely on D-rings. Jason Schultz has been rock climbing for six years. “It’s an amazing set of circumstances but without that gate locked the possibility is there that the gate could get opened and something could get unclipped.”

    As far as what specifically happened that is what the state Department of Commerce is trying to find out. What we do know from Winnebago County DA is there was a significant mistake.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    If he did admit this, so be it. This resolves any further debate on that, perhaps.

    Also, “accusations” and “controversy” comments by you are irrelevant, inasmuch as all previous posts preceded that public revelation. I cannot speak about conversations I’ve had with law enforcement officials or identify to whom they were with, but I can assure you (and don’t care who believes me or does not), I have spoken with the most critical “principles” in this investigation and would not have written anything at all that implied I did not know or that they had said something and I was ignoring it.

    Finally, this revelation/admission does not change the issue of potential criminal liability for having failed or refused, on the part of LIFEST or AIR GLORY’S owner, to shut down the ride BEFORE Elizabeth died for other dangerous operation practices and violation of state mandated operational safety rules. These things were happening and LIFEST knew of it an failed/refused to do their duty to protect the life of guests in that realm!

    My discussions with investigators, report and meeting have or will include all specific details, not conjecture, but based on observations and conversations and demands I made as the week progressed.

    Live and learn, wait and see!
    You know not now but please trust me!

    One way or the other, investigators have already talked with me for more than two hours, plan to do so again next week, and my formal report will be seen by all who need to see it.

  • everyone’s a pundit

    Badger Bugler,

    You may have started this with honorable intentions, and you may have proof of every allegation you have made. However, the way you are handling this is often insulting and in some cases arguably libelous. If what you have alleged is true, I hope you have not irrevocably damaged your testimony by your actions here.

    For the record, I did not suggest that you hide the truth. I plainly said that you should take this to the authorities — authorities who hold public office, I’ll point out. Your assertion that I would prefer to hide the truth, as well as a good number of other presumptions that you have made about me, is insulting and hurtful.

  • sad

    Badger,
    This is really just sad and getting really pathetic. While I understand where you are attempting to come from the ways you are going about it are utterly horrific. You have absolutely damaged the goodness that LifeFest and LifePromo. stands for. If you feel you know the “truths” than you have done what is right by your standards and reported them. I do not want to refer back to the Matthew Principle of living but it is time for you to be self righteous and back off. The damage you have inexplicitly caused to those on the fence is terrible. It saddens me deeply and at times has made me rather angry to read your posts. I do feel that you may know what you are speaking of but it seems more and more like you are trying to glorify yourself not your actions or the “truth” as you put it. Why is it not enough that you went to the authorities. Why must you begin this rampage to bring down LifePromo? What have they done to you. Badger, I have grown up in this community with a family involved in both these organizations, I attened a Christian school along with many other children from these families and I have lent my help at LifeFest for numerous years. I have seen great things happen in many lives because of their experience at LifeFest. I do understand that their are people (and there always will be) who seem to hide behind christianity as a means to fit somewhere in life and feel like someone big. I, however do not believe and never will that any of these people willingly would allow such dangers to occur. I will not name names or events out of respect and honor. You are a grown man Badger acting like a heinous fool. I apologize for sounding so cruel but enough is enough. You have damaged everything you stand for. Continue on with the authorities as you see fit. It is your right as a human being to do so. Good luck in your ventures but please, please stop the angry lashing out at an organization and event that has saved many lifes and has the potential to save many more.

  • Badger Bugler

    Thank you your thoughts…

    Still, you are wrong with respect to your claim that they are “arguably libelous”! I would encourage you to read the legal definitions of libel and slander. The one defense to both that makes neither charge true is that what was spoken was true. The conclusions I assert are based on first hand knowledge of the claims of “fact” I make. So the facts are not libelous and the opinions are based on understanding the legal definitions,as well, as best as a lay person might.

    Also, before you make such a claim or conclusion yourself, you must also read the laws upon which I base those opinions, including Wisconsin State Statutes respecting acts that demonstrate a disregard for injury or loss of life, as well as risk of injury, bodily harm and great bodily harm, among others!

    In light of such FACTS, which are what statutes are, as respects the words and requirements upon which opinions might be based, I think you might wish to reconsider and may well change your opinion and charge that I libeled anyone.

    Hard truths, whether spoken softly or harshly, are not libelous for that reason. They are, instead, oftren simply uncomforting, disconcerting and, in the extreme (as the producer of the documentary featuring Al Gore put it), “An Inconvenient Truth”!

    As many have said to conservatives about that documetary and its warnings, Deal with it!

    In the end, my tone is not what folks will need to deal with, but the truth. In the end, Jesus may well say, “Do you realize how many you might not have turned from me for what you said the way you said it?” And I will be held to account for that.

    But I believe He will also say to others, “Do you realize I did not call you to believe in him or get caught up in his personality or lack of it, I called o to hear the words, not the tone, and respond to the truth, not to the bum who spoke it. For that reason, you rejected or ignored me, and here is the future you face for it!”

    Thanks, again, for a more moderate tone. I will endeavor to ensure that I do more of the same due to your challenge. Still, I will not stop speaking what I know to be the truth.

    As one far wiser once said: “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S. To Pundit

    Also, to the extent that I may have misunderstood your meaning in earlier posts you made and those meanings were meant to be consistent with (not straight from, as you may be an atheist, but consistent with — as I am not “condemning you” for your choice to not follow Christ, if that is where you are at) what I understand to be biblical truth and instruction, I apologize for what may have caused insult and hurt.

    I never intended to insult or hurt anyone here or anywhere. I hope you might understand how the fear of insulting and “hurting” people is what keeps and perhaps ket so many at LIFEST from also challenging right people in the midst of what was going wrong long before the Mosh Pit nightmare of Friday evening and the even greater nightmare of Elizabeth Mohl’s death on Saturday. People dance so gingerly arond speaking truth or reasonable opinions that they say nothing or say something but do nothing. They are good people who make some horrifically bad choices — sometimes no one “pays,” sometimes the ‘actor” pays, and sometimes, like at LIFEST, others end up paying for that “wall flower” approach to limb and life and death situations.

    I will grant that you probably have the courage to stand up for your convictions, as I am trying to do (though I’m not saying you would do it in the same bumbling way I apparently have). Nut, I suspect you might be able to tell from as forceful as I am here that I was pretty “in your face” at LIFEST. For whatever reason, they chose to ignore it. But the problem is entirely theirs, and I am still trying to be part of a productive solution, as I think you might be, as well.

    Also, again apologizing for any misunderstanding of your meaning, I was also trying to say, repeatedly, that I have and did go to the authorities (legal, etc.) at LIFEST and since. I am not Monday Morning Armchair Quarterbacking over a lot of conjecture about what might have happened, might have been said and might have been done. I was there! I was involved in demanding action, They refused! And they even said they wouldn’t take time to assess it until they got over their shock! They needed to get over it right then and meet to discuss what had gone wrong and what they needed to do immediately all over that event to ensure not one more injury would occur because of what they might fail to do for lack of trying! Instead, they had a few paryers (which is great), then led a worship service that ended with a plea for vast amounts of money and on-going monthly donations to them, claiming they are poor and broke and losing money and in desperate need. That focus and “sensitivity” is, I believe, a highly probative revelation of what seems to be first and foremost in some of those people’s minds at the highest levels of LIFEST and LIFE!Promotions! (Notice the name is PROMOTIONS — amarketing and promotions — not Life Minsitries! These guys are concert and events promoters and public speakers whose behavior and attitudes as I witnessed them were primarily like secular artists and road crews and groupies and wanna bes and hangers on! Again, the leaders, not the volunteers, who seem to be most drawn in by the servants’ hearts of other volunteers and the great, reliable, Christian artists who perform ther, and the fellowship! Perhaps you had to be there to apprecaiate the crass self-centeredness and insenstitvitiy of it all. It caused a number, including volunteers, to toss down their shirts and walk out in disgust, even to refuse to hand out the pledge cards, pens and materials and the offering baskets! Perhaps you were there. Perhaps you saw what we saw. Perhaps you did not. But I did, and have never seen anything like it before, in nearly 50 years of life and 20 years working with and among many of the world’s best known and highly respected ministries.

    Heck, even I have had a personal conflict with someone in a ministry, including losing a job, yet still spoke extremely highly of all of the work they do/did! I am not some seething generalizer or retaliator or disgruntled anything! Though I do think disgruntlement is underrated in certain cases, especially when the facts are about potential and actual injury and death to others. I just blew the whistle right there at LIFEST and warned them very vocally and specifically, as did others, and since, and many people find the sound of that whistle and trupet (Ezekiel 33) too shrill to want to look at the violations, avoid them and/or correct or be accountable for those actions then or now.)

    I think, it now seems, that, perhaps, you do too. (And may have always felt that way, but I misunderstood you) Again, please accept my apology for that conclusion, if it was incorrect.

    I also hope you appreciate why I say that it is incumbent upon me to still speak the truth to ALL I believe need to hear it:

    Legal Authorities: to do their jobs

    The Church: that they might consider whether to go or give to events and groups run by these people (for their own safety and that of others)

    The Public: that all might examine and consider whether it is safe to do any such thing, whether at LIFEST or anywhere, and what “wisdom” they might apply to what they observe at any given place at any given time!

    Again, I thank you for sharing your clarification and feelings, as well as your criticism about “libel.” I trust you might well do as I suggest and look up the definitions and laws, etc. After doing so, I would welcome any “refining fire” you might offer to burn the dross off of the life of gold I wish to live and reflect!

    Respectfully,

    Badger Bugler

  • Badger Bugler

    If you or someone you know were hurt at THE EDGE stage, particularly on Friday night during the SKILLET concert at LIFEST 2007, then you might want to read this!

    This is a post from “Pastor” Jeff McGregor of First United Methodist Church in Neenah (WI). He was the one who ran the stage at LIFEST 2007 called THE EDGE, where dozens were injured after I tried to stop the violence and he refused to stop concerts to protect lives…

    Here’s the contact info he freely posted, which provides enough for a simple Google search to show you the rest, much of which is posted at the Blog site noted below:

    “Contact info:
    Call Jeff 920.257.7399
    call after 4pm
    E-mail:fumcyouth4@yahoo.com

    Get out the gas can.. ”

    On this blog — https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2654366351512065390&postID=482162637165651200 — “Pastor” Jeff denied any connection to LIFEST!

    But take a look at this article from a local paper (the Oshkosh Northwestern) published prior to LIFEST!

    Then tell me if this sort of “Christianity” is not more the justification for atheism than is the fundamentalist type — at least fundamentalist Christians and atheists are both fundamentalists, but this wishy washy middle ground live in both worlds and deny the divinity of Christ stuff is even enough to make some devout Christians turn atheist. Tell me who the glory hound is.

    Read the story and “Pastor” Jeff’s anonymous posts there (he later admits to his identity and behaviors at LIFEST! Then ask yourself, “Why would he lie?”

    The answer is an unequivocal “Li-ability!” He was acting as a contractor (his terms) and a Pastor representing First United Methodist Church of Neenah and Director of THE HUB at LIFEST. He is smart enough to know that many will be looking for reimbursment of medical bills for injuries susained at LIFEST and, in the light of the death of Elizabeth Mohl, the butt covering began even before she was in “surgery”! It continues still, and they were caught at it on that site!

    “THE HUB” — http://firstchurchnm.tripod.com/hub/ — A “Christian ministry” youth cafe coffee house that has to “sneak in” Christian performers because they are ashamed to be Christian! (Read the blog here to see for yourself: https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=2654366351512065390&postID=482162637165651200!

    I’ll stand corrected on the actual count, but I found only one reference to Jesus on their entire site. Plenty of envionmenally and politically correct mumbo jumbo about just the right coffee beans and the like (though no mention of how much power is used to crank up the tunes at all of their “seeker sensitive” secular music head banging Rolling Stone inspired rock fests there in THE HUB as they lash out against all manner of conservative evangelical Christians, as pastor Jeff does so vehemently and viciously on his MySpace blog. (My Lord, this man hates Christ and Christianity more than any atheist I have ever met. You guys don’t need help against us CHristians with “Christians” like this on “our” side!
    I’ll stand corrected on the actual count, but I found only one reference to Jesus on their entire site. Plenty of envionmenally and politically correct mumbo jumbo about just the right coffee beans and the like (though no mention of how much power is used to crank up the tunes at all of their “seeker sensitive” secular music head banging Rolling Stone inspired rock fests there in THE HUB as they lash out against all manner of conservative evangelical Christians, as pastor Jeff does so vehemently and viciously on his MySpace blog. (My Lord, this man hates Christ and Christianity more than any atheist I have ever met. You guys don’t need help against us CHristians with “Christians” like this on “our” side!

    So, check it out!

    Then, tell me who “had a horse in this race” and had a reason to lie and cover up the truth!

    FROM:

    THE OSHKOSH NORTHWESTERN

    Local, nation bands debate ‘Christian’ label

    By Sarah Owen
    of The Northwestern

    Hand him a microphone, give him a few feet of space, and acoustic pop-rocker Jacob Fannin would strum a line for anyone.

    “I don’t care if I’m playing at a coffee house or a restaurant or Best Buy or a furniture store,” said the 22-year-old Hortonville native who’s become a regular face on the Oshkosh music front. “What’s cool about the Appleton-Oshkosh area is there are a lot of great musicians like that … they’re all about the music.”

    So, even though Fannin doesn’t call himself a Christian artist, he isn’t opposed to stage time at venues known for their religious ties – like Basic Books in Oshkosh.

    With Lifest – the area’s biggest Christian music festival – on the horizon (July 11 to 15), local artists and venue operators still say there’s not much demand in Oshkosh for artists who openly declare their faith to be the driving force and main message behind the music.

    “A lot of times, if you do project some of your Christian values or any kind of beliefs in the music, there are venues that try to shy away from that,” Fannin said.

    Booking Christian acts

    New Fox Cities hangout The Hub, in Neenah, finds it hard to ride the line when it comes to picking performers. Operator and local pastor Jeff McGregor said it books mostly secular music and local artists, but as far as working Christian bands into the lineup?

    “Actually, we kind of have to sneak in those acts,” he said.

    McGregor, who also emcees for Lifest’s Edge Stage, where acts like Superchic[k] and MXPX will rock the crowds this week, said, “I have tattoos and I’m wearing cargo shorts and look like anyone else that comes into (The Hub) and hangs out. But Sunday morning I have a robe and cross, and the vestments are out.”

    The goal of living as a Christian individual or musician in a day when society is all too careful about excluding, discriminating against or making anyone uncomfortable with their faith is to walk the line, McGregor said. “It’s not to separate ourselves; it’s to expand, really. We try to keep our feet in both worlds.”

    Bold about their ties to religion, Basic Books of Oshkosh does seek out Christian acts to perform each week – but it also features mainstream artists, who maybe happen to be Christians, such as experiment rock outfit Rosewood.

    Manager Amber Patrick, who came aboard recently at Basic Books, said they host acts every weekend with the understanding that they want to maintain their Christian principles, but without making anyone feel out of place.

    “I know some of my friends who are not Christian maybe would feel more comfortable, for example, hearing jazz on occasion,” said Patrick, who has made little changes since she starting managing there, like not to play exclusively Christian tunes.

    Local Christian subculture

    From what Patrick’s seen around the city, Christian acts mostly perform at churches, small fests and private affairs, but she has noticed a budding group of artists who are open about the faith inspiring their music.

    “Even seeing a Christian subculture here is new for me,” she said. “A lot of bands are starting from different worship teams, different churches and getting together and playing and doing concerts.”

    But most of the up-and-coming young artists she books and has met don’t classify themselves as Christian because they want to reach a broader audience, she said.

    Whether they realize the money isn’t in the label or artists simply have a message they hope will reach everyone, local Christian musicians are not coming out of the woodwork to play popular Main Street hangouts.

    Amy Jo Doty, front woman for Oshkosh rock band Road Trip, has ridden the line when it comes to her devout faith and the group’s local mainstream popularity. Along with some of the members of her band, Doty tried a group some years ago, with the goal of playing Christian music.

    Called The Change, the band played a few shows before realizing they would never survive off gigging that act around the Fox Valley.

    “We’ve been in Road Trip so long, we see what rock music brings in – a lot of people and a lot of money,” Doty said. “And the Christian music scene was bringing in little people and no money at all.”

    In fact, she said, some Christian-based music festivals actually require bands to pay to perform. Others ask for donations from the crowd, most of which goes to the organization.

    “And a big money-making thing at our shows is the sale of beer. When you go see a Christian band, a lot of times they just have soda, and you don’t make money on soda,” Doty said.

    More than measure

    Oshkosh Christian artists may never make the big bucks, but there have been Midwestern faith-based acts that climbed the ladder in the industry that led them to world tours. Some – such as Relient K and Switchfoot – have crossed genres.

    Three-time Grammy winner and Saturday headliners at Lifest, Jars of Clay has spent 15 years dipping from fans at both ends of the pool. Front man Dan Haseltine said music shouldn’t be restricted by labels, but be about creative expression.

    “After many years of ‘Are you a Christian in a band or are you a Christian band?’ we’ve grown a bit tired of it; it’s not a distinguishment that holds much merit,” he said.

    “Most of that label put on the artists, there may be all sorts of reasons for it that have nothing to do with the music they create. In that sense, we feel like the labels are a bit tired, unnecessary and we tend to fight them where we can.”

    Without the label, Jars of Clay is on a mission to affect people – as advocates for the plight of AIDS and poverty in Africa.

    But there are big-name artists whose message and purpose don’t mind the distinctions. Singer, songwriter and guitarist Jeremy Camp – who plays at Lifest Thursday – has earned numerous Christian music awards and maintains that his music will never lack a bold message of faith.

    There are moments in the artist’s life that affirm he’s found his place in the industry.

    “I got a letter from a guy that said he was going to commit suicide, but he heard one of my songs, my story, and it gave him hope,” Camp said. “He said, ‘Thanks for the song, because I’m here today.’ I read it right before I went onstage and felt this encouragement, like ‘What you’re doing is affecting people’s lives.’”

    Sarah Owen: (920) 426-6671 or sowen2@thenorthwestern.com

    ~~~

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

    ~~~

    As you conside his “Pastor” and his behavior at LIFEST and, now, online, ask yourself this (written at the other site in response to a poster who signed themselves “~Saddened”:

    Ask yourself whether Elizebth Mohls’ pastor would help cover up the truth about what led to Elizabeth’s death if he had a chance to share it with her family!

    Do you think a true Christian “pastor” and “man of God” would take the “Silence of Adam” approach to this all?

    Don’t you think he would want to help her family find comfort in knowing the whole truth?

    Ask him if he would want people to remain silent if they know all of what led up to and caused Elizabeth’s death.

    We now know that the operator admits a “D” ring was not closed! But don’t you suppose so that he can preach truthfully on all such matters and minsiter privately to her family in truthful and righteous and relevant ways he and they would want to know if someone did or failed to do something that could have stopped it all before anyone got hurt or killed? Especially if there were particular opportunities, not just speculative conjectural theoretical “What if(s)…”

    Well, my friend, there are such things, and I bet they all would like to know!

    They should know.

    I bet her pastor would want to know and find the riht way to help them know!

    Don’t you?

    You don’t?

    Why?

    You prefer to live in the lie fest that is being perpetuated here?

    Saddened, indeed!

    ~~~

    At moments like these, I appreciate some atheists morme than some theists. It is such shame-filled acts for which the perpetrators know no apparent internal shame that I believe Jesus said, “I would rather that you were hot or cold, but because you are luke warm I shall spit you out of my mouth!”

    And, “You are either for me or against me!”

    “Choose this day whom you will follow and serve!”

    “As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!’

    And “shake even the dust of their house off our feet while departing the home of those who call themselves Christian but deny Christ in all they say and do!”

    I’d rather righteously walk with sinnes and atheists than those who say “Lord, Lord” but neither truly believe and follow him or proclaim His righteousness and confess repent of their sins!

    In that sense, I’d much rather sup with the sinners than the “saints”!

    If they’d have me!

    (The “saints” ont hat blog certainly don’t want me! BOO HOO! Does that make me the hero of atheists? I only value the “praise” of CHrist, though I deserve none!)

  • ash

    Badger, i have no problem with you choosing to report the facts as you saw them, but i do have an issue with the following comments;

    You are clearly a confused and decieved soul who also refuses to answer any questions about you!

    Your ignorance and foolishness are no excuse for your inane comments.

    For you to quote His word and claim I am obligated to obey it is not only the height of illiogic, by hypocrisy, schizophrenia and insanity!

    Sad state of spiritual and intellectual affairs you seem to reveal in your life and that of the LIFEST team!

    Shhh! Helmut! Quiet and let the authorities deal with what the’re doing to the Jews in Berlin! They’ll take care of it without your help!

    you betray the unreasonable, illogical, unwise, undiscerning and uncritical nature of your thinking

    YEAH, GLOBALI-NAZI

    You are just a scoffer, critic and ostrich.

    when you have also later stated

    I never intended to insult or hurt anyone here or anywhere.

    now either you do not understand how these comments are highly personal, insulting and hurtful (in which case most could be justly levelled at you – not so nice then, no?) or you need to consider that any truth you have spoken will be undermined by a statement of clear contradiction/untruth later.

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    Updated word count: 13,142.
    Truth count: ?
    Useful-approach-for-convincing-others-of-the-Truth count: -1x10e6

    You must be an atheist or very bored and disinterested, disengaged, dispossessed, disheartened, heretical and/or apostate Christian. With your standards, the Bible would be a pamphlet!

    Yes, I am an atheist. Around here, that’s not an insult (see title of the host blog). And, a pamphlet? Does that even begin to make sense?

    You were there when they crucified the Lord, sceaming,
    “Crucify Him!

    Actually, that was the religious authorities.
    And then you accuse me of neglecting the teachings of Christ because they simply weren’t quick enough, and of being trapped in a cycle of materialistic consumption and adultery. Whew, thanks my self-identity up. Actually, my beliefs (while I still professed Christian faith) took me to many countries to share the gospel, and the teachings of Jesus were always the most concise, insightful, and challenging I found. Having lost faith in the truth of that gospel, I now devote my life to humanitarian interests, hoping that through medicine I can ease suffering in this life. Yes, I’m a real self-centered heathen, aren’t I? If Christians could really crop down their obsession with orthodoxy and the materialism of their churches to the central teachings of Jesus, maybe more fence-sitters would strive for to follow Jesus, isntead of being discouraged by the likes of you.

    -”globali-nazi”

  • Richard Wade

    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
    Keep talkin’ talkin’ talkin’
    Keep those trolls a squawkin’, Bloghide!
    Don’t matter what you mention
    Just feed ‘em more attention
    Otherwise they’ll feel bad inside.
    Bloghide!

    Type ‘em up, send ‘em out
    Send ‘em out, type ‘em up
    Type ‘em up, send ‘em out
    Bloghide! (Hyah!)
    Post ‘em up, read ‘em out
    Read ‘em out, post ‘em up
    Post ‘em up read ‘em out
    Bloghide!

    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
    Keep those comments comin’
    Keep those keyboards hummin’, Bloghide!
    Though your hands are bleedin’
    Trolls all need their feedin’
    Narcissus will be swellin’ up with pride.
    Bloghide!

    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’
    Bloghide! (Hyah!)

  • Badger Bugler

    GLOALI-NAZI:

    I’m not sure if even I missed that I somehow accused you of adultery. Also, for a preacher, you sure do not know Scripture. It was not the church authorities alone who screamed “Crucify him!”, but the crowd of citizens as well. I can understand how you could “lose faith” in a Gospel you apparently did not know or understand.

    You also write:

    “If Christians could really crop down their obsession with orthodoxy and the materialism of their churches to the central teachings of Jesus, maybe more fence-sitters would strive for to follow Jesus, isntead of being discouraged by the likes of you.”

    Actually, you write two conflicting things. I am, along with our medical volunter friend, Teresa, among those saying just what you say about the crass commercialization and unChristian “money changing” that appears to be the hallmark of LIFEST’s attitude, if also behavior and policy!

    You can’t decide on the gospel and your own faiyh, and you are just as confused about whether I am what you claim. I am encouraging the same consistency and biblical values you claim to espouse, yet you rail on me for it.

    You are a very confused and inconsistent person!

    You hate Christians when they speak tripe!
    You hate Christians when the speak truth!
    You hate Christians when they challenge others!
    You hate Christians when they challenge each other!
    You hate Christians…
    You hate me…

    Good luck with that. In a way, I was on your side!

    And you hate that too!

  • Badger Bugler

    GLOBALI-NAZI:

    I’m not sure if even I missed that I somehow accused you of adultery. Also, for a preacher, you sure do not know Scripture. It was not the church authorities alone who screamed “Crucify him!”, but the crowd of citizens as well. I can understand how you could “lose faith” in a Gospel you apparently did not know or understand.

    You also write:

    “If Christians could really crop down their obsession with orthodoxy and the materialism of their churches to the central teachings of Jesus, maybe more fence-sitters would strive for to follow Jesus, isntead of being discouraged by the likes of you.”

    Actually, you write two conflicting things. I am, along with our medical volunter friend, Teresa, among those saying just what you say about the crass commercialization and unChristian “money changing” that appears to be the hallmark of LIFEST’s attitude, if also behavior and policy!

    You can’t decide on the gospel and your own faiyh, and you are just as confused about whether I am what you claim. I am encouraging the same consistency and biblical values you claim to espouse, yet you rail on me for it.

    You are a very confused and inconsistent person!

    You hate Christians when they speak tripe!
    You hate Christians when they speak truth!
    You hate Christians when they challenge others!
    You hate Christians when they challenge each other!
    You hate Christians…
    You hate me…

    Good luck with that. In a way, I was on your side!

    And you hate that too!

  • Badger Bugler

    Hey, Ash!

    I need not defend opinions and challenges to the integrity of others…

    Speaking truth and opinions, no mater how much they may hurt that person, does not mean that the INTENT was to hurt or insult. But assessments and words are required to speak what one believes. That you consider them insulting is an issue you will need to deal with.

    Also, my comment about an atheist quoting the Bible and demanding I obey it was not to say I should not obey it, only that such a challenge from an atheist is the height of hyprocisy. In other words:

    “I am going to quote from this book that I disregard and disrespect and demand that you follow its teachings, Mr. Christian!” That, my friend, is the first rule of hypocrisy. That is not an insult, that is a definition. It is only an insult if you did not do it. If you did, it is simply a statement of fac by definition!

    My “Helmut…” and all related historical allusions (instead of illusions, as you seem to think Christianity and reason and biblical morality are) are legitimate examples of how so many here and elsewhere have hypocritically railed on Christians for all of their historical wrongs (and those of others) but then demanded silence on the matter of misconduct by LIFEST leaders. Again, the Silence of Adam, the Silence of uido (duin he Inquisition), the Silence of Helmut, the Silence of Tricky Dick! All the lies and cover ups and historical crap that allows them to go to their graves saying…

    “We did not know about the death camps! We were not Nazis! What could we have done? I am just one man! If I spoke up I would die! If I spoke up they would take my job and house wand family! I prayed for their safety — wasn’t that enough?!” (Me, me, me, I, I, I, not anyone else is important!)

    “We did not know about the violence at LIFEST! We were not on the Security and Stage Management teams that contributed so recklessly and negligently to injuries and death! What could I have done? I am just one man! If I spoke up I would be… I prayed for their safety — wasn’t that enough?!” (Me, me, me, I, I, I, not anyone else is important!)

    Sorry this is all so hard for you!

    Apparently you, like others here, you seem to be too busy counting the words instead of reading them. Too worried about a few potetially hurt feelings than the wounds of the literally injued and dead a LIFEST 2007!

    Then again, this is all about you, isn’t it? You can stand up and speak out for yourself!

    Almost none were doing so at LIFEST!

    Where were you last week? What did do to stop the insanity, injuries and death? Where are you now? What are you doing…?

    And who are you to claim offense over something written/said to someone else?

    If I used the language others have used here, you might have a right, but those comments were made to someone else about what they said. You are engaging in commentus and interactionus interruptus!

    Your type is clear. No apology is good enough. You want to fight. And it wasn’t even an apology to you, nor over comment made to you, to top it off!

    Now you have your own “insults” and “injuries” to gripe about. But you will get no apology! You intentionally picked a fight and attacked for an evil purpose.

    You are a tool of Satan!

    One man’s insult is another man’s fact!

    Buh bye!

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    Richard Wade, if you recorded that, complete with bull whip, you’d have a blog hit on your hands. Not sure about copyrite issues, though.

  • Badger Bugler

    Copyright!

    And, as parody or not, the rights can be obtained!

  • monkeymind

    Good one Richard Wade! :-)

  • ash

    dearest Badger,

    you are obviously a man who could take offence at a biscuit and still try to argue that it’s a grape. as such, i’ll leave you to it.

    Richard Wade – lol ! if you release it, may i suggest a re-write of Monty Python’s ‘spam’ song as a b-side (hey, it’s easy!)

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    troll,
    Yes, I’m an ignorant, hateful person. You’ve caught me.

    For the record, every person I love in this world is a Christian. My Christian friends would cringe at your methods–do you preach sermons the way you discuss online? If so, I’ve heard some people like you on the radio.

  • Badger Bugler

    Globali-Nazi:

    “Every person I love in the world…”

    So, you don’t love someone unless they are Christian…

    Sounds like religious bigotry and narrowness that is anything but Christian.

    I don’t have to hear your type on the radio, as folks like you blather on everywhere and anywhere without license, filter or discernment!

    So blather away and make Dan Rather sound like Albert Einsein!

    Giddy…

    Giddy…

    Giddyup!

  • Badger Bugler

    Cowboy!

  • http://globalizati.wordpress.com globalizati

    You have misunderstood me (purposefully?) yet again. Every person I love is a Christian because I live in a part of the country where nonbelievers are few (or afraid of the social consequences of admitting their lack of belief). Thus, all of my close friends and my family are Christians. I made that statement not as one of bigotry, but to point out the error in your saying that I “hate Christians” without knowing me.

    Apparently you, like others here, you seem to be too busy counting the words instead of reading them.

    Haha. Busy? Actually, yes. So I find doing a word count with Microsoft Word quicker than running text from “fundamentalist” to “sane” settings on Google Translate. I’m beginning to wonder if you’re an atheist posting as a Christian to make them look bad. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

    *eats some more popcorn.

  • Maria

    I’m beginning to wonder if you’re an atheist posting as a Christian to make them look bad. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time.

    *eats some more popcorn.

    really? does this happen a lot? how immature……..

  • Badger Bugler

    Not by me! This is just another way for anyone to spew vitriolic foolishness in order to get people to ignore or discount the truth.

    If you want more on Lifest and what’s coming out, check the news story that broke tonight in Green Bay about it at:

    http://www.wluk.com

  • carol

    BADGER BUGLER = KRIS POTTS

  • carol

    http://www.dwd.state.wi.us/lirc/erdecsns/340.htm

    I would use discernment when dealing with Badger Bugler aka Kris Potts.

    Like in the above link, numerous other results from a google search can cause one to wonder about his stability. I believe the authorities now don’t only think he is a crack pot, but know he is one.

    Photographing Pope Paul does not constitute working for him as he has previously claimed. I could go on and on about his delusions but he has had his 20 seconds of fame.

  • anonymous

    Kris Potts,
    Could you please devulge to all your listeners your legal battles. How many people have you sued or have attempted to sue you? Your background proves how truly sick and twisted you are as a human being.

    Google is a true gift my friend. I think you have stated that before.

  • Badger Bugler

    Carol thinks she’s smart.

    If she knew what she was writing, she would see that the case demonstrates that Kris Potts refused to break the law when demanded to do so by his emplyoyer.

    Carol: What job and/or connection do you have to LIFEST and Life! Promotions?

  • Badger Bugler

    Not just Google, but the net itself, including your ability to research what you think you learned! Praise the Lord!

    If you only gave half that thought to the facts of what happened at LIFEST! Amazing, though… Just like a guilty partyto want to make people look elsewhere and at things that have nothing to do with anything here. But, amazing for those who claim to care about Elizabeth, that you engage in such childish tactics in an attempt to get people to focus on everything but what happened there.

    Interesting comments by Wes Halula at http://www.WLUK.com.

    Hey, Wes, just what is “irrsponsible” about speaking the truth?

    LIFEST sent Security volunteers a questionairre asking for such feedback, arriving just today, but can’t stand the thought that they actually got a direct answer (one that everyone else got). If they truly cared, as Halula claims, they would have taken that advice throughout the week and done something about it all!

    All that research you’ve all done is impressive. Have you checked how many police and EMS calls were made to LIFEST this year?

    Get relevant, folks!

    Kris Potts is no fool and knows that all that “crap” you think you found is out there! Do you think he cares that you or anyone knows?

    Not on your life! It is the truth about him in most ways, but you clearly do not know what is at the core of any of what you throw around like some sort of Scarlett letter he should be ashamed of…

    Get a life! He wasn’t running Air Glory or LIFEST! He was trying to do what he was asked by them to do. But as with all things “inconvenient,” you all now want to trash the messenger, no matter what you know or don’t know!

    Nothing unusual in that!

    Sleep well, Wes Halula!

    By the way, I don’t see Kris Potts suing anyone here over anything!

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S. Who said “photographing” the Pope was working for the Pope?

    Only you, Carol! Not Kris Potts! Anywhere that I’ve found.

    Prove your claim that he said that anywhere!

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S. I see two of those “Kris Potts” cases are personal injury cases for being the victim of car accidents caused by others! One by a corporate truck and the other by a pastor’s daughter!

    So just where is the “sick person” you try to portray in that?

    Sounds like he appreciates and is concerned with the welfare of others since he might have suffered things himself. You, however, seem to pick on victims and defend perpetrators!

    Sleep well with that heart of yours Carol and friends!

    I bet Kris Potts sleeps better knowing he’s trying to help others while you’re trying to detroy him and defend those who allowed all that happened at LIFEST to go so wrong!

  • Badger Bugler

    Finally, Carol, the only delusions you should address are the one’s you’re having believing that you are likely to intimidate the new target of your obsessions with facts that he was clearly not afraid to address publicly in the press or court….

    …and the one you’re having that has you believing that any of this somehow changes the fact that numerous people were hurt at LIFEST, he reported it to authorities THEN, they asked for his feedback now, he’s giving it and they can’t stand that it has shown that the LIFE! PROMOTIONS & LIFEST EMPORER HAS NO CLOTHES!

    So, Carol, which LIFEST staffer are you related to? What law firm for LIFEST do you work with? How many years have you been a LIFEST volunteer? What evidence do you have that anything Kris Potts has said is not true.

    Also, by the way, I read that case and the other stuff related to it. Every fact he alleged against that employer was proved correct! So truth doesn’t seem to be his problem, since he risked a lucrative editor in chief job to defend a decorated veteran, a woman and a “perceived” lesbian job candidate. The decision also shows that he defended them, that his boss had done wrong, that the boss told him to break the law because he had a “Christian duty” to obey his boss’s every demand, that he properly tried to stop it and etc. The only thing is says is that he could not recover damages for being terminated the same day he was still doing this because they could not conclude that he proved a retaliatory motive.

    And if you had truly done your research, you would find that Potts’ claims were proven true in Ashford v. Magna in the city of Madison! And just like this case, those accused try to accuse him of making it all up but witnesses came forward to confirm that he had said and done what he said he had said and done as it was all happening…

    Hmmmm…. Carol Crime Stopper, sounds like you walked into that one!

    If anything, it proves that he does not speak loosely or lightly and stands up at the price of his own security and reputation for the injured and oppressed. Something you and your LIFEST pals might want to think about before trying to destroy the witnesses against them. Sounds like this guy considers the truth of the circumstances very carefully before moving forward.

    Funny enough, you make it clear he is no Messiah, but think of all that you are trying to do as this guy tries to do good for others! Even Jesus said, “When they do it to you, remember they did it to me first!”

    So there, Carol the Caped & Cowled Crime “Investigative Hotshot Crime Fightert” — the crime is yours. You should have been so lucky, and your veteran husband and lesbian neighbor, to have someone stand up for you like that record (which I researched myself) shows Kris Potts did!

    Get a life!

    AND

    Get LIFEST and LIFE! Promotions to begin speaking the truth about it all!

    And by the way again, I’ve seen photos of the operators not paying attention and looking the other way when riders were swinging through the air. Sound safe to you? Would you put your kid’s life in the hands of an operator who wasn’t watching at any time — like when they might have signalled a problem? (I’m sure you’d pray for Kris Potts to take that ride, eh?!)

    By the way… In the WLUK story, Wes Halula admitted that Air Glory was operating in the rain, just like bugler or Potts or whoever said. So, you may want to ignore that, but even Halula confirmed what Potts said.

    And I saw the still pictures on the WLUK story that show them operating in the rain just like bugler seemed to be saying was going on!

    Someone’s not telling the whole truth, but when cornered Halula ends up basically confirming Potts’ claims, if only in part.

    And you want to talk about what you think is the “truth” about something you knew nothing about while ignoring the plain truth here. I hope you are not on the jury that might hear any such case, since facts do not seem to have a way of getting in the way of your nefarious plot to destroy someone who looked out for others.

    I only hope and pray that other security people and guests of the event will have the courage to come forth and speak the truth about what happened at THE EDGE stage and elsewhere.

    Notice that the counter attack was “qualitative”: attacking Potts for being “irresponsible” (not a liar) and talking about their absolute commitment to the safety of guests. Do you expect Halula to say “We don’t care!”?

    Naive, manipulative, ignorant and/or a liar! Halula and Carol, it seems…

    Boy, if this was not so tragic an event — the whole LIFEST 2007 experience for those injured, etc. and their family members — your foolishness would almost be entertaining. Instead, it is horrifically tragic, compounding true and unjustified insult upon true and unjustified and totally avoidable injury!

    Whether you are Christian or not, your attitude and actions are a true crying shame!

    Where are your tears for all of those injured at the Skillet concert and the young woman and her family?

    To paraphrase a one time candidate for vice preisdent attacking Dan Quayle, I know Kris Potts! You are no Kris Potts! (Thank God! He’s a confessed sinner saved by grace with a testimony of his own!)

    As I see it, Kris Potts knows what to be ashamed of and admits it and knows what to stand up for and whee and when!

    You prove that those who stand for nothing — as you do — will fall for anything (including the lies of LIFEST and Wes Halula)!

    Good luck with that!

    P.S. Still having a hard time seeing how anyone who takes on LIFEST here with no chance of a personal claim against them has anything to gain. Just like you’ve proved, one can only expect attacks, abuse and blistering exposure, no matter what they know as fact, for trying to do what’s right. (Probably means no one will want to be a witness to anything — perhaps the reason you won’t tell the truth you probably know as a LIFEST insider. Heck! Don’t want to lose that free pass and access to artists next year, do you?! So sad, such as you are…)

  • Badger Bugler

    If nothing else, it just sounds like Kris Potts doesn’t suffer fools and liars and law breakers and bigots and anti-veteran, anti-woman oppressive child and adult endangering louses gladly!

    That is his scarlet letter!

  • carol

    CRACK-POT!!!!!!!

    I don’t know this Wes guy nor work for that organization.
    You sir are coming unhinged!
    Appears as if you could justify anything in your eyes, too bad you are the one who losts in numerous cases and owe big bucks.
    Your RAMBLINGS show you for what you are!!!
    As everyone else has abandoned you, so shall I. Wasted time and energy.
    I hope your daughters are not subject to your abusive and combative behavior. Get a job and pay your bills!!!!!!!

    KRIS POTTS =BADGER BUGLER

  • Badger Bugler

    Hey, Carol and Global….

    You think you know something, maybe you should be part of that press conference that Jeff McGregor was invited to take part in. Maybe Potts will even show up and take on your “hardballs” publicly!

    So, whaddya think?

    …you guys have the courage to ID yourself like Jeff did?

    …you willing to “out” yourself like you think you did to Potts, who actually went public without your shame or threats and actually exposed himself to you and far worse than you (though you’re pretty bad excuses for either a Christian or atheist “of integrity,” like you want people to think you are)?

    So, what’s your name and contact info?

    Who do you work for?

    How many times you sued someone?

    How many people sued you?

    Ever inhale?

    Do you know what the definition of the word “is” is?

    Wanna explain your 18 minutes of silence?

    Didn’t we see you on the grassy knoll?

    What’s your “testimony”?

    Are you one of the people who are part of LIFE SPEAKING?

    Ever spoken, sung or otherwise appeared for a Life Promotions and/or other event, including those that featured any LP staffer or affiliate, including Bob Lenz and “Happy Fun Timer” Wes Halula?

    Were you among those who went back stage at LIFEST without passes?

    How much did you pay to get into LIFEST?

    Ever been in a car accident caused by another?

    Did you have to pass a background check to be part of LIFEST?

    Did Kris Potts?

    If you think Kris Potts should have been screened out as a LIFEST security person, do you think they may not have screened out the other people he says were incompetent to do the jobs they had? HMMM? (If they “missed” Kris, maybe lots of other bad apples got into the LIFEST security bunch, don’t you suppose!)

    Ever been hit head on by a pastor’s daughter running a light?

    Ever been called a liar when you know you’ve told the truth?

    Will you stand up for a young girl, her family and many others?

    Or will you fall for the fallacies of LIFEST’S Wes?

    Who will you serve this day?

    Are you ready to pay the price for refusing to be a faithful watchman (Ezekiel 33)?

    Are you ready to pay the price for trying to crucify a faithful watchman?

    Seen this from the press release that’s posted online…

    GO AHEAD! Take on Kris Potts! Doesn’t look like he has any problem with coming up with the right answer/response to two things…

    1) “What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and yet lose his soul?”

    2) “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose.” JIM ELLIOT

    Also sounds that, apparently unlike you and too many others, Potts is able to embrace some of the hardest biblical values of all, sort of said like this:

    “If, by supporting
    the rights of mankind,
    and of invincible truth,
    I shall contribute to save
    from the agonies of death
    one unfortunate victim of tyranny,
    or of ignorance, equally fatal,
    his blessings and years of transport
    will be sufficient consolation to me
    for the contempt of all mankind.”

    CESARE
    Marchese di Beccarria,

    as quoted, in 1770,
    in the journals of future
    President of the United States
    John Adams

    ______

    DANE COUNTY BASED LAW ENFORCEMENT CHAPLAIN
    WHO WAS “LIFEST 2007″ SECURITY VOLUNTEER
    CALLS FOR BOYCOTT BY PUBLIC, ASSESSMENT BY OFFICIALS OF
    OF AUGUST 5 WJJO “BAND CAMP” IN MADISON!

    Long Time Secular & Christian Media Professional and Christian Missionary
    Warned of Threats of Injury & Death Posed by
    LIFE! Promotions’ LIFEST in Oshkosh,
    Offers Evidence & Accounts to Support
    Belief Injuries & Death at LIFEST Were “Very Easily Preventable”,
    Repeats Warnings to Dane and Brown County Officials and Public,
    Fearing High Risk of Danger May Exist at
    August 5 “WJJO Band Camp” in Madison
    and LIFE! Promotions’ Planned November
    “Power of One” Event in Green Bay

    22 JULY 2007 (Dane County, WI) – Following his experiences on “the inside” of the recent LIFEST “Christian” music festival in Oshkosh, where numerous attendees were injured by violence at concerts and a Menasha High School student killed by admitted operator error that led to equipment failure, a Dane County, Wisconsin based law enforcement chaplain who served as a security volunteer at the annual event is calling for a boycott of all events sponsored by LIFE! Promotions pending the outcome of all law enforcement and civil investigations and actions relating to the group.

    Kris Potts, and ordained minister and long-time secular and ministry media professional who has worked in staff and leadership positions for many of the world’s best known Christian ministries, says that during the five day event he worked approximately 80 hours providing volunteer security services and had a “unique insider’s view” of the event as part of LIFEST’S so-called anti-violence security “Strike Team” – a group consisting primarily of men, all recognizable for the distinct yellow baseball caps they wore emblazoned with the words LIFE! Promotions Security. (The volunteers can be seen in many of the pictures published online by the Appleton Post-Crescent and Oshkosh Northwestern.)

    Potts is also calling on authorities in Wisconsin’s Dane County and Brown County to reassess plans for guest security and safety at the upcoming WJJO Band Camp at Madison’s Alliant Energy Center’s Willow Island and LIFE! Promotions’ Power of One youth concert festival scheduled for November at Green Bay’s Resch Center near Lambeau Field. Potts says he has already put in calls to key Dane County officials connected to the event there, and that he’ll be trying to contact other law enforcement and community leaders about the threat he believes the events may pose to public health and safety in both communities.

    According to Potts, “beginning from the moment I arrived at the fairgrounds I became concerned with a number of things I observed about LIFEST operations and security issues.” Potts says that he repeatedly shared his concerns with senior LIFEST leaders, including Founder/President Bob Lenz, beginning that first night and throughout the week. Potts also says that Lenz and his guests were among the first to violate stated LIFEST security policies.

    In each case, Potts says, LIFEST leaders made a wide variety of excuses and refused to ac in a way that he believes would certainly have avoided all injuries and the death of 16-year-old Menasha student Elizabeth Mohl on the “Air Glory” construction crane-based cable swing ride. Mohl fell from the top of the ride as her friend pulled the rip cord release, when, according to published admissions by the ride owner, Gary Ross, a “D-ring” failed because it had not been properly closed by ride operators.

    In spite of the admission, Potts says he believes that the fundamental question has always been, “Could those injuries and death have been prevented? How? And why?”

    In addition to his other efforts detailed herein, Potts said he expressed concerns to LIFEST leaders about Air Glory operations, and that other security volunteers said they had done the same. Not only did LIFEST leaders reportedly have cause to shut down the ride before Mohl’s death, Potts says he believes that it was an absolute necessity in that case and that he would have done so. Among the things Potts saw and spoke with security leaders about was that Air Glory was operating when rain was falling and lightening was flashing. [NOTE: Contact for photographic evidence, which also includes shots of operators looking away from the ride while riders were airborne, all of which violates state laws regarding mandatory operator safety procedures.]

    According to Potts, he’s helped sponsor and direct dozens of such Christian events “from 600 people to 80,000″ all around the world, including work as Resident Director of Media Relations for the 1992 Billy Graham Crusade in Moscow, Russia. That was the only “crusade” ever held in the (former) Soviet Union by the world-renowned evangelist, whom Potts served as a missionary. Potts has also served in media and security positions for nearly a dozen Promise Keepers events, including the 1997 gathering on the Washington DC Mall, where he helped direct security efforts for the international media and members of Congress in attendance. [NOTE TO EDITORS: See attached biography.]

    “I and many others repeatedly told LIFEST leaders that they needed to not only enforce their stated rules against violence at the concerts, but that they had an obligation to do everything reasonable and possible to ensure that everyone at the event was safe,” Potts says.

    Invited to the event by his adult daughter, who also served as a volunteer on the Strike Team, Potts says she also informed him that at least two members of a Madison-based church youth group attending the event were injured at a concert he tried to convince LIFEST to stop if they were not going to enforce their written anti-violence policies. Potts says another incident on the opening night was “an extremely bad sign” to him.

    “The first night,” Potts says, “a Sun Prairie High School (SPHS) physical education teacher, Lyndi Mittlesteadt, attempted to get LIFEST security directors to investigate a man who appeared to have been on the grounds without a parking permit or event pass, had parked at their campsite and was, in the post-midnight moonlight, lurking and leering into the tents of young women and other event guests. She was repeatedly ignored and made to feel ashamed by two security directors at THE EDGE stage where she had sought out help.”

    Potts says that Security Director Stephanie Wasinger repeatedly ignored and refused to help the teacher and to respond to his requests for Wasinger to do so. He says another security director – both she and Wasinger were the only ones there with radios to Security HQ (which was being monitored by the Oshkosh Police Department officers on site – also refused to help, instead talking with a performing artist’s team member. Eventually, he finally took over and addressed the matter personally, asking for the second director’s radio to do so. “In fact, Potts says, “I only pressed to deal with it when the more senior of the two security people at the site said, ‘Go find someone else with a radio!’ even though she had one.”

    In spite of the fact that trained law enforcement officers – both Oshkosh Police Officers and two active duty Wisconsin officers serving as leaders at LIFEST’S Security HQ – were on site and listening to his call for assistance, Potts says, he had to beg LIFEST leaders to send someone, anyone to investigate or help him investigate the reported threat. Finally, three golf carts of teens were sent to help him, nearly all saying they were too scared and didn’t know what to do. No LIFEST leader ever responded to the pleas for help made by the teacher or Potts, he says.

    Only on arriving back home and doing some research did Potts learn the full identity of the SPHS teacher. As it happens, she had previously worked for the very church-based Madison school his own children had attended, and whose two students his daughter told him were injured on Friday night at THE EDGE stage during a concert by the Christian group SKILLET. On that night, security at THE EDGE stage was directed by the same woman who had refused to assist the SPHS teacher and Potts with the “peeping Tom” report.

    Potts says that the SKILLET concert was one he had been warned about almost the moment he arrived on site early Wednesday evening, the first night of the five-day annual event. He says Main Stage and Strike Team Security Director Stan Alt, of Kaukauna, had promised him in writing that LIFEST had a what amounted to a “no violence, bounce up and down and shake your fist but no body slamming, pushing and head banging or violence of any sort under any circumstances or your ejected from the park” sort of policy. (See attached e-mail text.)

    After returning to Alt from the first concerts at THE EDGE, Potts, his daughter and other security volunteers reported to Alt what had happened and warned him that volunteers were already hurt and much worse was sure to come. The volunteers even identified certain perpetrators and warned Alt that they were sure to be the most trouble as the week went on if not stopped. Alt promised prompt, decisive and uncompromising adherence to the non-violence policy as written, as numerous volunteers said “I didn’t sign up for this [violence and abuse],” Potts says.

    “Imagine our shock when a groups of kids approached Alt at the Main Stage, about an eighth of a mile from THE EDGE stage, and pleaded with him to let them continue their violent behavior,” Potts recalls. “Then imagine the shocked looks that went around the security team as we heard Alt negotiate a deal with the group – led by a guy we’d previously identified to Alt as ‘Orange Crush’ because of his size, red haired Mohawk and T-shirt bearing the drink company’s logo – to allow them to do every manner of thing in violation of the rules.”

    “I turned to my daughter and others and said, ‘The boss has just signed a deal with the Devil’,” Potts says. All of the volunteers agreed in one way or another, Potts says. That was opening night.

    By Friday afternoon, the violence at THE EDGE stage had gotten so out of hand, according to Potts, that an adult came up behind a student, unseen, quickly put the young man in a behind-the-back arm lock, lifted him up, flipped him heels over head and violently head slammed him to the ground. In response, he stepped in an instructed the man to back away from the student and called over other security volunteers to his right. At that moment, Potts was struck on the back. He turned to find that it was LIFEST Security Director Stephanie Wasinger, screaming at him and ordering him not to stop anything, including that act, even if it occurred again. Following an exchange in which Potts refused to follow the instruction, reportedly telling Wasinger that the man engaged in what he considered a violent and potentially deadly criminal act and that he would not stand by for that or anything like it, Wasinger (approximately 20 years old) repeatedly screamed at Potts (46) and ordered him to do as she said.

    “I told her as respectfully and as forcefully as I could, in no uncertain terms, that people were going to get injured and maybe die at LIFEST if I or anyone followed her orders and that I refused to do so,” Potts says. “To that, she pulled out her ID and said ‘I am a Director with LIFEST and you will do as I tell you!’”

    “I responded by saying that the only order she could possibly give that I would obey was to order me off the site to run it as she wished, since I had orders when I signed up that no violence would be allowed and I was to stop it,” Potts says. “She told me ‘You’ll do what I tell you to do!’ to which I said, ‘Not on my watch! The only way you do this your way is to have me taken out of here or relieve me of my duties!’ She responded by saying, ‘Give me your [Strike Team] hat and leave now!’ And I did just that!”

    “I wanted it clear in no uncertain terms that what they were doing was dangerous and deadly, as guests and as Security Directors and event operators. And I immediately reported it to the Oshkosh Police, Event Leader Tammy, whose last name I do not have available; Senior Security Director Tom Mangin; Security Director Corey Wasinger (whose last name I did not know at the time) and Security Director Stan Alt,” Potts says. “I was told I did the right thing and it would be corrected. In fact, it was not, and they never did anything to change anything.”

    “In fact,” Potts says, “Stephanie Wasinger was still in charge of Security at THE EDGE that night when six ambulance calls were made and dozens more people were injured and hospitalized, including Security volunteers, because no one, including Wasinger, changed a thing! And Neenah Youth Pastor Jeff McGregor, on staff with First United Methodist Church (FUMC) of Neenah and Director of ‘The Hub’ music ‘ministry’ café founded by FUMC there, was directing events from the stage and persistently failed or refused to do anything reasonable or proper to attempt to stop the violence,” he adds.

    “I have worked for, with or alongside literally hundreds, perhaps thousands of local, regional, national and international Christian ministries, ministers and performing artists in the past 22 years,” Potts says, “and I have seen thousands of devoted, prayerful, sensitive, concerned and compassionate Christians and non-Christians who show and share with each other concern, love, fellowship, friendship and joy, across all ethnic and denominational lines. I saw that at LIFEST, too!”

    “But what I have never, ever seen before,” Potts claims, “is what I consider such a widespread, seemingly institutional, crass, reckless, negligent, wicked and unapologetic violation of every good and right principle of reasonable human, personal, civil, business, religious and ministry conduct as I saw among the senior leaders at LIFEST.”

    “In all of it, I can think of only two or three people who stand out, shining lights amidst the terrible darkness, and will gladly name them when I know their full names and positions. But Val and Chuck know who they are, and I praise them to heaven right now! As I do all of the volunteers and performers and attendees I know and saw being salt and light and the heart and hands of Jesus Christ to each other.”

    “I must speak of that good by and within those people,” Potts says, “but I must also point out the terrible (mis)conduct of LIFEST leaders. This is not about rehashing the past, Potts says, it’s about preventing even more potential injuries and death in the future under the willful and reckless ‘leadership’ of the LIFEST people who refused to listen to reason, exercise due diligence and do their moral, ethical, spiritual and legal duties at LIFEST 2007.”

    “If you want to know why I feel so strongly about this,” Potts says, “you only need to read Ezekiel 33. That is the call God has placed on our lives, that is the call I try to answer in whatever I do wherever I am, whether as father, friend, chaplain, journalist or just citizen, but always as Christian!”

    “That LIFEST refused to respond to the warning is now to the enduring regret of many and pain to the few, particularly Elizabeth Mohl’s family,” Potts says. “But others and I sounded the trumpet and spoke the watchman’s warning to LIFEST leaders and they refused to respond in a timely or proper manner.”

    “With LIFEST organizers planning to return to Green Bay in November for their annual Power of One event at the Resch Center and Skillet set to be in Madison on August 8,” Potts says, “I can do no less now. This is not about being vindicated about something in the past, but dealing with it fully and openly, and ensuring that it doesn’t repeat itself in the future.”

    “An unashamed ‘born again’ evangelical Christian,” Potts says that he is not interested in stopping any legitimate “work of God,” as some have already accused him of trying to do.

    “If someone thinks that someone so fallen and sinful and human as I have the ability to stop any legitimate work of God,” Potts says, “the they are following a very small God, because, like the Apostle Paul said of himself, I am the smallest and most meaningless of men.”

    “I want to make sure that such great things do happen,” Potts insists, “but that they happen with the greatest and most moral, ethical, legal and biblically consistent care, compassion, good will and safety we can all apply to every such undertaking!”

    Potts says that there was not one thing that could and should have been done a LIFEST that would have cost one penny more to do. “Just taking a stand and saying ‘Stop!’ costs only the courage and conviction and time and effort to do just that!”

    “And even if it did cost money,” Potts says, “there was and is no cost too great to invest in avoiding all of those injuries and death or even one more in the future!”

    Potts says he was told when he arrived on site that LIFEST security for the week was and would be “woefully understaffed.” In response, he suggested that they hire a private security firm to supplement the volunteers. That suggestion was ignored. So, particularly after seeing the way that LIFEST ignored threats to sleeping campers, he offered to stay the rest of the week to work around the clock shifts, including overnight patrols.

    “Until the authorities, parents, kids, churches and our communities can be sure that LIFE! Promotions and others are truly equipped and committed to do the right thing and do it under all circumstances,” Potts adds, “I am imploring everyone to not attend their events or any event, whether under the banner of ‘Ministry’ or ‘Christian’ or ‘Just Plain Fun’!”

    And as a long time law enforcement chaplain, I do not want to see a single LEO or EMT injured while trying to “protect and serve” anywhere because we – as Christians in particular and citizens in general – failed or refused or neglected to do our watchman’s duty!”

    “These past two weeks I’ve seen too many people walk by ignoring and chastising the injured along the wayside,” Potts laments, “both in the midst of imminent dangers and in the days since, offering all manner of lame justification for avoidance and evasion and injury and death. I’m speaking to gently when I say that I am utterly fed up with it.” He says he would “like to shout from the rooftops and sound stages of the state the phrase made famous by the news anchor in the Academy Award winning movie Network [written by Paddy Chayevsky], but that [his] Christian convictions keep [him] from doing so.”

    “We don’t need to talk about the good Samaritan’s in the world,” he says, “though they are much needed and terribly under praised and under appreciated, if we will instead do the watchman’s duty of seeing and warning of danger and moving to stop it before it does its damage!”

    Potts is challenging law enforcement leaders, government agency representatives, elected officials, venue owners, performing artists, church leaders, event sponsors, promoters and participants to meet to review and agree on all such plans – including discussions about police and security, medical service and liability coverage, as well as reimbursement for the cost of such services – in much the same way as Madison leaders have done with respect to the annual State Street Halloween and Mifflin Street Block Party.

    Potts points to an internet blog entry by one woman, identifying herself as “Teresa Jones,” who claims to have been a medical volunteer with LIFEST as the reason he believes that officials may want to pay particular attention to events run by LIFE! Promotions in any community.

    “One problem I have with this is that the Life Promotions people hide behind a veneer of Christianity when in fact it is a money-making machine,” the blogger wrote. “Nothing wrong with making money but not at the expense of safety and health.”

    “I wanted to volunteer this year on the medical staff but found out that the medical director was an EMT! In previous years, an ER physician ran the show and his team did a fantastic job of “fixing broken thumbs” and anything else that came that way. Where was the medical team when all of this occurred? How fast was the response time? Did a nurse or doctor show up to take care of Elizabeth? My understanding is that she was in surgery for 6 hours so the surgeon at least thought she had a fighting chance. That means that the first few minutes after impact were critical in her care. In the broader picture, why was an ER doctor replaced with an EMT? Who’s idea was that? The person at Life Promotions who made THAT decision has a lot of accounting to do.”

    Potts says in the early overnight hours following the SKILLET concert at LIFEST, one family approached him as they were departing the event, having packed up their belongings to leave in utter disgust over what had happened at the SKILLET concert. During a 20 minute visit, they told him that their daughter had broken her thumb, that it had been caused by the violence at the concert, which sent a security volunteer among others to the hospital, injured students from a Madison church group, and sent dozens more seeking medical care. This family says they were among many turned away, even though they were told her thumb was likely broken. They told Potts that LIFEST’S medical staff said they were not trained or equipped to deal with such things and that they would simply need to leave and find medical attention on their own.

    While Potts says he has no personal knowledge about any past problems with WJJO events, he now feels that the appearance of numerous groups, including SKILLET, at its Band Camp at Willows Island on the grounds of the Alliant Energy Center this coming August 5 now “necessitates a review” of WJJO’s safety plan and procedures for their that event.

    “I believe from first hand experience and involvement and my own efforts at LIFEST that all of those injuries and the death of Elizabeth Mohl were very easily preventable,” Potts asserts.

    “Sadly enough,” Potts concludes, “what happened to dozens at THE EDGE stage and the Air Glory ride at LIFEST proves that you can trust no one but yourselves to look out for your own lives, and that you can’t be sure that they are listening to other people asking them to do so in the midst of obvious threat that guests may not know about.”

    “Assume nothing! And trust your better angels above all others!” n

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From : Stan | Block Sender
    Date : Sat, Jun 09, 2007 04:22 PM

    Hello Kris,

    My name is Stan Alt and I am more or less in charge of setting up the volunteers for stage security. I understand you are looking at helping us out this year. In order to help you make your decision, I have a few statements I need to make.

    For Life Promotions we in security follow a restrained physical interaction policy. Even though Lifest has gotten bigger through the years, the people attending have kept their basic Christian principles and those few who do erupt into a less friendlier moment are not encouraged by the crowd to escalate the situation, but instead, they feel the crowds displeasure over their disrespectful actions. For this reason we are much less likely to need to get physical with any festival attendee.

    The area where I think you would be an invaluable asset would be our most likely area of disrespectfulness with others. Inevitably, the teens who worship by moshing are the most likely candidates for special attention. They do not intend to do harm to others, but as a result of getting caught up in worship the way they do, it tends to overflow into the rest of the audience.

    Rather than trying to eject the festival attendees, we are putting up a human wall between those who are less exuberant and the more excited. These are our Strike Teams. Each team has a leader and at least 8 members. If God so wills we will have enough people to have three teams. Their objective is to be a wall, allowing the exuberant to jump up and down, shake their heads, throw their arms up in the air – BUT – NOT ALLOW a side to side motion which causes others to push back and people being knocked off their feet and possibly being injured. The ONLY time a security person is allowed to come into physical contact is when a patron is doing something harmful to him/her self and/or to others. This judgment is to be made by the Strike Team leader whenever possible. Our experience with this process at Power of One in Green Bay has shown that a formidable LOOKING presence with a kind smiling facial expression and friendly attitude works quite well.

    The Strike Teams work in the evening from 5 to close, Wednesday thru Saturday. Not all of the time, but during certain performances. If you are willing to accept direction from those of us who are less trained in the ways you have been trained and can give me 4.5 hours on the days you have time to attend, I would encourage you to fill out the online application putting “Stage Security Strike team” and “Stan Alt” in Step 3. If you can only work one 4.5 hour shift which will be broken up into multiple segments, we will take you. Life Promotions will forward the information I need to me, so you can use the application process that works best for you:

    http://www.lifest.com/2007%20Pages/volunteers.htm

    I’m sure I will find you to be a very valuable asset. The more days you can work the better! The application gives you an opportunity to “write in” the time you will be available to us. I use this to do the scheduling. So please, get this done as soon as possible if you have made a decision to join us.

    Your daughters are welcome to join us as well. I will have some women who will be working in the Strike Teams, but that will only come about after I have personally interviewed them. A Strike Team member will need to stand a tough line at times and stay together in order to have the effectiveness of a team. This is not the best place for those who are not physically capable to withstand the pressure and the smell and sweat of those who may not of showered for a couple of days. :o)

    I do have some need for other stage security persons that may suit them better. Much less physical and more informative positions like back stage Grandstand gate, Cafe and Happy Fun Time Lounge stages. It depends on a number of factors, but I would really appreciate their volunteering. If I find out the hours you will all be there, (on the application) very soon, I can schedule your off time to their off time (or at least try to) so that you can enjoy the other areas of Lifest together. they must also put down my name and stage security in step 3 of the application or they will not be on stage security. If any of you wish to work a different area, please DO NOT put stage security or Stan Alt in step 3.

    Guess this has covered the basics for Stage Security. If you have a desire to be put on a gate checking wristbands, working with traffic/parking or other areas of security instead, let me know. All areas have need for more people and each area has a blessing for those that serve. It’s up to you, to let me know.

    An accumulation of four 4.5 hour shifts will get you a full event ticket. Working a 4.5 hour shift in any particular day will get you free admission for that day. If you work a total of six shifts you will receive a free ($10 value) Parking Pass for the volunteer parking lot on the festival grounds. Please keep in mind that if you work Stage Security, your shifts will not be in 4.5 hour blocks, but will be broken up into the time frame that performances are running on the stages. I know it doesn’t sound like you get a bunch of perks for being a volunteer with us. The rewards are really seen in the faces of those we serve and I believe, are added to our treasure in heaven.

    HOWEVER!

    In addition, separate from Life Promotions and/or Lifest, some of us leaders in the Security arena have put together a process that we use to feed our Security volunteers while they are on the clock. Last year we had all kinds of good food including a variety of meat sandwiches, fruits, vegetables, chips, soft drinks and desserts. I liked the hot beef and corn on the cob the most. So, this means that you as a member of any Security position at Lifest will be fed while on the clock as one of our ways for saying thank you.

    Thank you for your inquiry, hope I get to meet you personally and if you have questions — please ask me.

    Grandstand Stage
    Security Director

    Stan Alt
    N2211 County Road J
    Kaukauna, WI 54130

    Hm: 920.766.2232
    Cell: 920.915.7826

    ALTERMAR@NEW.RR.COM

    (Josh 24:15 KJV)

    And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,
    choose you this day whom ye will serve;
    whether the gods which your fathers served
    that were on the other side of the flood,
    or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land
    ye dwell: but as for me and my house,
    we will serve the LORD.

    Recommended Boycott of All Events Involving LIFE! Promotions Speakers, Bob Lenz & “Christian” Band SKILLET

    PASTOR/CHAPLAIN CALLS FOR
    AND RECOMMENDS SERIOUS RECONSIDERATION
    OF INVOLVEMENT IN and/or BOYCOTT OF
    LIFE! PROMOTIONS EVENTS & SPEAKERS
    AND ALL EVENTS INVOLVING
    THE “CHRISTIAN BAND “SKILLET”!

    Unless and until each of these groups confirms that they will provide legitimately trained, qualified, licensed, authorized and constituted security teams, I recommend that people planning or thinking of being part of such events in any fashion seriously reconsider their participation and, indeed, not attend and/or boycott the events! In light of the widespread violations of all reasonable and professional security practices at LIFEST 2007 by LIFE! Promotions employees and leaders, we strongly urge that people avoid any and all events in which the following speakers, as well as the “Christian” band SKILLET, are involved:

    http://www.lifespeaking.com/lifespeaking/calendar/default.asp

  • everyone’s a pundit

    Badger Bugler,

    Since you are still ignoring repeated pleas for you to exercise prudence, I have questions:

    If you have evidence of criminal offense(s), why do you refuse to allow the justice system a chance to address your complaints? Are you carrying out your threat/promise now that the DA has telegraphed his expectation that there will be no criminal charges filed? Do you similarly believe that civil litigation is unlikely, and thus your action is somehow demanded?

    If you are a Christian and have evidence of non-criminal offense(s) by those professing Christian faith, why do you refuse to bring it before the assembly, as instructed in Matthew 18:17? Even the most liberal interpretation of the term rendered as “assembly” cannot possibly mean “Internet blogs” or “television news,” can it?

    Finally, you have lied to us. Earlier you said this:

    YEAH, sort of wanted to work for LIFEST after working for the POPE and BILLY GRAHAM.

    Yet a short while ago,

    P.S. Who said “photographing” the Pope was working for the Pope?

    Only you, Carol! Not Kris Potts! Anywhere that I’ve found.

    Prove your claim that he said that anywhere!

    Either you are Kris Potts and are deliberately misleading us, or you are deliberately mispresenting what Carol said — or even worse, you’re doing both.

    Please, take a moment to look up Proverbs 10:19, and stop this immediately.

  • Richard Wade

    Trollin’ Trollin’ Trollin’

  • Badger Bugler

    You assume so much that they do not stand worthy of reply, only to say, everything you would like people to believe is not happening is!

    Also, just how big of an assembly and which and who should be involved? When is that supposed to happen?

    LIFEST is an independent corporation with no apparent denominational ties or acountability structure, as they are not part of the NAE or ECFA, for example! This information is shared and being shared…

    Ask Wes Halula about that “bearing false witness” thing as he lies. Your demands for things to be done your way, which is not consistent with Scripture in its particulars and your attitude, etc., is unpersuasive, particularly as Jesus Himself said “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and unto God that which is God’s!”

    And Wes and Bob and the gang did that by incorporating, registering as a 501(c)(3) and having to carry liability policies, etc.

    Perhaps you should know that they also sent letters to security volunteers asking for this feedback. I already know they were lying publicly during the event and continue to do so! Do you think answering their private questionnaire would let anyone outside their group know what was going on?

    My obligation is not to LIFEST, as you seem so intent on implying or stating. It is to the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY — I know three things: there is a God, I am not Him, and Bob Lenz/LIFEST is not God! — and to the BODY OF CHRIST! The Whole Body of Christ! The Body of Christ beaten, bruised, injured and worse by willful recklessness and negligence and disregard for limb and life at “LIFEST”! And the Body of Christ at risk of being beaten, bruised, injured and worse by the high potential for ongoing willful recklessness and negligence and disregard for limb and life at “LIFEST”!

    Perhaps you should read Ezekiel 33 very carefully! You are trying to cloud the issue by attacking “reporting methods” rather than the critical facts that are being reported. That, my friend, is a scheme of Satan! GET THEE BEHIND THIS & ME…!

    Finally, you are wrong about the Carol Pope thing. First, I am not old enough to have photographed Pope Paul. Second, even your quote of what I wrote references “working for the Pope and Billy Graham.” You both know nothing of the basic nor broader meaning of what that phrase was intended to communicate!

    However, most of all, you IGNORE the fact tha it was Carol who said the “photographing the Pope” did not constitute working for him. That was the misstatement of fact, characterization and wrong-headed innaccurate and irrelevant comment she made that she thought was some sort of revelation about integrity of another that revealed thet she had no integrity. She asserted that a claim had been that had not. No one ever wrote here that they had worked for the Pope by photographing him, etc., or that any such thing was the basis of the claim that they did or might have worked for the Pope. (By the way, read the comments about whether a soldier can say they “work for the President” — she says “No!” He is the Commander in Chief! And I wrote about how we ultimately work for no man, President, Pope or Billy Graham, but for Almighty God and Jesus Christ!)

    Clearly, your work with and/or relationship to/with LIFEST has clouded your judgment, your intellect, your spirit and your conclusions and assertions. You know nothing! You’ve sadi nothing relevant about the injuries and death at LIFEST, and you are only engaged in a jousting match to kill the messengers.

    You will be proven the fool! And plenty of phone records and e-mails will do that! (I know you’re trying to draw that out in YOUR time, not God’s time and the investigators’ time. YOU KNOW NOTHING — unless you’re hiding facts from the inside of LIFE PROMOTIONS — so you cold not even know how to pray, let alone discern God’s will, wisdom and direction about this!)

    Pray that those who are reviewing all the things you imply or claim they do not have read and discern what they should — and that they come after me and Potts if it is a lie. More so, that God does that! I can be sure that they are asking for that accountability. They’re smart enough to know that if it is nothing but lies, they have everything to lose, in both this world and the next! Can you say the same?

    Are you a watchman or a minion?

    “What does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?”

    You should also read that little and very big passage by Paul where he writes to the “saved” church that they can lose their salvation for such apostasy as you preach! And their end is “to be burned up in the lake of fire”!

    I fear, my friend, that the spiritual flames are licking at your heels!

    Flee!

    Shake the dust of Life Promotions and/or whatever sin and deciet you are caught up in from the souls of your feet!

    “Oh, what a tangled web we weave [Wes and gang] when at first we practice to deceive!” WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE (Do you suppose he knew that the soldier at the Cross was named William? You know, the one who shook the spear and pierced it into Jesus’ side, then, presumably, later said, “Surely He was the Son of God!”? Is that enlightened Centurion shaking his spear of rightesouness and truth at you now? In your mind? Your spirit? I hope so! You need to get a clue and save your attacks for the enemy, not those truth seekers and speakers like me who are devoted friends and servants of Almighty God, Jesus Christ and His Church, Brothers and Sisters of every age, all!)

    Believe your own lies at your own peril! And to the seemingly/potentially impending peril of everyone who buys into them, too!

    You have looked silently on as someone has mixed the Kool Aid, served it up and seen its effect! You looked on and screamed vitriolically as someone is trying to warn those drinking it down! That you are now selling it yourself is, I believe, almost (perhaps even) unforgivable! That you are now trying to force feed it down the throats of the innocent and innocent ignorant (as well as those willing to be deceived) is, indeed, unforgivable, in my opinion!

    Pray for my soul, to be sure, as you think me woefully lost. I’ll do the same for you! Somewhere along the line, God will make sure that His justice prevails. For LIFEST, you and me! I’m ready for it! Are you?

    A fool and his life are soon parted!

  • andy

    I want to apologize on behalf of all Christians that havent gone to the nut house or belong there, for the comments of badger buglar. Not all Christians are cold hearted and known for what they are against instead of what they are for. This guy is obviously lonely and has a lot of free time. He apparently gets an a rush from arguing and finding causes to be against. Please pray for him no matter what beliefs you have. He is someone who needs help. May the God of Love invade his heart. May the God of Compassion invade his soul. Matt. 5:44
    John 13:35, Matt. 26:52
    SLANDER – A false defamation (expressed in spoken words, signs, or gestures) which injures the character or reputation of the person defamed; distinguished from libel. (The ‘Lectric Law Library’s Lexicon On Slander)
    Proverbs 10:18,19,20,21,23,25
    Romans 14:10, Matt. 5:43-48
    May the Love of Christ be with you Kris Potts. I pray that whatever you are angry about in life, whatever you are searching for, that you will find it.
    May the PEACE of Christ be with you.

  • Matthew

    Badger–I think you are Potts, I think most people know that by now.

    I bet Jessica and/or Megan is sorry she brought you to LifeFest. I sure am.

    I look forward to seeing you at PowerOfOne you ol’ coot!=)

    Also anyone who wants to read about how sue happy Kris is or about how even his wife wasn’t fooled by him simply just go to google, Type in Wisconsin Public Records, and click on the first link that comes up. Search for Kris Potts. And make sure you have your bowl of popcorn waiting.

    For the rest of us, Lets stop posting to this man. Let him alone to slip in and out of delusions about press-conferences, news stints, (nice 15 sec. spot though) and such. By the way, I don’t think anyone really cares about your cell phone records Kris. So people, stop responding to him. go on reading his posts for enjoyment and laughter but just don’t respond back anymore.

    good bye Kris, Like Carol said, Get a jobm, Get off the computer and pay your bills. I’m sure I will see you at PowerOfOne, until then my friend.

  • Badger Bugler

    Sadly, you do with God’s Word what Satan did in the heavenlies and in the Graden, then with Jesus during the 40 days: you quote it to chastise people for rightesousness in an effort to tempt and lure them into sin.

    Satan quoted Scripture, bur Jesus countered him with, “But is is also written that man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY word which proceeds for from the mouth of GOD!” Not some words, but every; not man, but God!

    As so many do, you intentionally avoid “the full counsel of Scripture” — which includes Ezekiel 33, Christ’s “Lord, Lord!” parable, Cain and Abel and “am I my brother’s keeper?”, the story of the “good Samaritan,” and so much more — in an effort to lure and tempt others to transgress and sin against God and man. JUST WHAT Bible are you reading from/ A sort of Thomas Jefferson Bible? With everything but the words of Jesus (and, in your case, Proverbs, or one proverb) excised?

    What is so amazingly clear here is that you, one of many words before I ever arrived on the scene, proclaiming all manner of opinion over something with no personal knowledge of them (or do you know, but are hiding that because you are also culpable and liable?), violating the very Scripture you site as a command for my silence.

    Taken to it’s logical conclusion, yor citation of Scripture if applied as you demand means that God commanded all the propehts to sin/transgress against God Himself and His own Word and His people. After all, following as many as 40 years and more of proclaiming very lengthy passages from Sccripure to all sorts of cities, nations and religious authorities, they certainly spoke many words.

    But, as with almost everything here, you fail to make or honor such critical biblical distinctions — the same lack of intellect, wisdom, discernment, reason and care so many were injured and worse at LIFEST!

    And you refuse to address the facts of the case! They are no more or less true depending upon where they are spoke: at LIFEST, on the net, with my pastor, with your pastor, to an investigator… It is either true or untrue. So deal with it, David! The sinner is you! The transgressor is you. Deal with the facts! (And they are no more or less true based on whatever decision someone else makes about how to address it, whether in a church, civil, peronal or criminal context. God knows what I know to be true. One person with God is a majority.

    I am not afraid of bullies like you. You are being used of Satan, a minion of Satan and/or Satan in all of these. Yo avoid truth, cover up and speak lies and ignorant “biblical prattle.” It is not I or Kris Potts or anyone who distracts from the death of Elizabeth Mohl, as Comedy Legend Wes Halula proclaimed to WLUK! It is he and you and LIFEST that are doing that, pointing only to me and Potts so that people will not look at her death and the role he believes they appear to have had in it! THE HYPOCRISY IS AS PLAIN AS THE NOSES ON YOUR FACES! Prattling Pinnochios, all!

    So, once again…

    JUST WHAT ROLE DID YOU HAVE AT LIFEST and/or WITH LIFE PROMOTIONS and/or ANY AFFILIATED ORGANIZATION and/or MINISTRY?!!!!

    If you’d like to open your big mouth publicly, I’d be happy to debate you publicly any time and any place with cameras rolling as we tackle the question not of what happened and how, as that’s well documented (though I’d be happy to do that, as well), but whether and why and who and how LIFEST should and could have prevented it all; the practical, legal and biblical reasons and ways they were obligated to do so; how and why they failed; whether they can/should ever be trusted again with any event, LIFEST, Power of One or otherwise; and what they plan to change to not only earn that trust, but to honor that trust!

    But I’m betting such words as honor and trust and duty and obedience and watchman and trumpeter aren’t in that Bible you seem to be using or the dictionary you pulled out to rail about words like euphemism!

    As always, you remain obsessed with style over substance!

    How’s that working for you now?

    How’s that gonna work for you on the day of God’s eternal judgment!

    And I bet that Wes Halula, Bob Lenz, “Pastor” Jeff McGregor and others you know will not be occupying the judgment seat, speaking of how God is distracting people from the death of Elizabeth Mohl, or whipping out their checkbooks or awards for “best Christian music festival in the country”! I don’t think will be much impressed with that! And I bet Kris Potts won’t be in that seat! And I know nothing he has done will much impress God, either! It is all vanity of vanities and striving after wind! And he knows it! And He knows it! And you do not!

    “For God is no respecter of persons!”

  • Badger Bugler

    SLANDER – A false defamation

    The operative word being “false”!

    You all can’t handle the truth!

    Hear Potts’ own testimony and he’ll be the first to tell you that he screwed up his marriage. Again, your pathetic efforts to shame and humiliate him show the extent to which you are willing to go to cover up the circumstances surronding the tragic death of a young girl and the fact that others could and should have done something to prevent it all!

    You are very sad!

    To turn the phrase, “You all are the kettles calling the Potts black!”

    Lot of medical bills come from being nearly killed by the reckless driving of others, don’t they?

    Imagine who’s really laughing now!

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S.

    I this wasn’t so serious, your blatant hypocrisy would be exceedingly laughable!

    Wes Halula blasts Potts saying, essentially, “He’s reckless and irresonsible and insensitive for distracting everyone from the death of Elizabeth Mohl!”

    Utterly incredible how these last few posts do just what Wes Halula criticized — and in spades!!!

    You all want everyone to look a me and Potts and totally ingnore LIFEST!

    Just how many phone calls and degrees of separation did it take for you all to get in touch with each other after the story broke on WGBA to flame the truth tellers?!

    You guys are the most un-Christian, unbiblical, unethical and insensitive deceivers I have ever met! And it is clear from the recent posts that many of you have links to LIFEST!

    As for those who bring Potts’ daughters’ names into this, perhaps you might want to do some research and find out how many members of their church youth group were injured at THE EDGE concert featuring SKILLET!

    Simply put, you are pathetic excuses for human beings! (And Christians!) And with the crap you spew you vicimize victims, not knowing one fact about the things of which you speak.

    P.S. Since you think one’s name on a lawsuit or police report makes them reprehensible, without examing what happened therein, you must really hate attorneys, judges and police officers, who are involved in virtually ever law suit ever undertaken! Too bad for the Christian and ethical atheist folks who stand up for their rights!

    And pathetic as you are in applying your “logic” and “reason” and “spiritual wisdom” to this all, I can’t wait to see how you will treat the survivors left behind following Elizabeth’s death if they ever had to file suit, or someone, like an insurance company on their behalf, to rightfully recover for the their immeasurable loss through her death!

    You people simply do know how to think, reason, feel or live, in spirit, faith or truth!

    And if you really want to know the truth about Potts’ divorce, ask his daughters about a reconiliation and restoration experience they witnessed.

    You don’t know the truth, you don’t care about the truth, you spew everything but the truth, you can’t handle the truth!

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

    (So, what’s the word count now, bean counters? The truth count is through the roof! But not the “truth” spoken by you!)

  • everyone’s a pundit

    Your charge of bullying is laughable. I dare you to read every word you’ve written here. You have been insulting, you have been presumptuous, you have tried to cast shadows and doubt and other implications of wickedness on other people in this very forum, sympathetic (as I was) or not, all in the name of your God. Then, you justify such by asserting that this is because what you say is Truth.

    Do you not see that a reasonable person might assume, based on what you have written here, that Truth your god?

    Do you not see that it is your abusive behavior that I’ve stood against from the beginning?

    Do you not see that you made your apology and then completely destroyed any credibility you had by abusing other people in the very same way that you insulted and hurt me?

    For the records, the only links I have to Lifest or any other affiliated entity are solely in your mind. This is one of the many hateful rumors you have created to justify your own venemous behavior.

  • Badger Bugler

    Here…

    Let’s save you all the time:

    Appeal of Ruling RE: Illegal Actions of Employer

    2004CV001659 05-28-2004
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. WI Labor & Industry Review Com

    Attempt to Collect Unpaid Wages from “Christian” Employer

    2004CV000767 03-11-2004
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. James Ewing et al

    Attempt to Recover Damages for Jessica from Dr. Who Totalled Her Car

    2003SC000333 06-25-2003
    Green Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. Gregory Medis MD

    Changed Venue for Above

    2003SC000136 01-06-2003
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts et al vs. Gregory Medis MD et al

    Attempt to Collect Unpaid Wages from “Christian” Employer (Related to Ewing, above)

    2003CV003072 10-13-2003
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. J Charles Sterin et al

    Claim for Auto Accident Caused by Daughter of Local Lutheran Pastor
    (Hmmm, there’s some values, Fox Valley “Christians” — that a Lutheran
    Pastor whose daughter was ticketed for totalling a car and injuries would
    not act biblically and so much as pay for the ER bill, though bleeding
    from the head!)

    2003CV003062 10-13-2003
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris A – Kris A Potts vs. State Farm Mutual Auto Ins Co et al

    For lost wages, libel, threats, etc. Against Former
    Employer Who Discriminated Against Woman, Veteran, “Lesbian”
    for whom Potts was shown to rightly fight – no recovery for retaliation)

    2003CV000489 02-14-2003
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs. Magna Publications Inc et al

    Appeal re:
    Employer Who Discriminated Against Woman, Veteran, “Lesbian”
    for whom Potts was shown to rightly fight – no recovery for retaliation)

    2001CV000826 03-26-2001
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs WI Labor & Industry Review Comm et al

    Upaid medical bills from accident caused by Lutheran Pastor’s daughter

    1999HL000026 03-12-1999
    Dane Filed Only Potts, Kris A – Meriter Hospital Inc vs Kris A Potts

    Auto accident and physical injuries and stroke caused/confessed by other driver. Case closed due to bankruptcyy of corporation and insurance carrier

    1999CV000465 02-24-1999
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris Arthur – Kris Arthur Potts et al vs. Safety-Kleen Corp et al

    Employer Who Discriminated Against Woman, Veteran, “Lesbian”
    for whom Potts was shown to rightly fight – no recovery for retaliation)

    1999CV000337 02-10-1999
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs Magna Publications

    Small Unpaid Legal Bill for Promised Pro Bono Services re: Divorce

    1998SC012131 11-25-1998
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Relles Meeker & Borns vs Kris Potts

    Unpaid Bill Due to Inability to Work following Feb 28, 1996 Accident (Safety Kleen)

    1998SC000216 01-06-1998
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Allied Digital Technologies Inc vs Kris Potts

    Unpaid Debts, Etc.

    1995SC002519 03-02-1995
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris – Kris Potts vs Lisa Haas

    Divorce

    1989FA001004 07-12-1989
    Dane Closed Potts, Kris Arthur – Lisa Ann Potts Vs Kris Arthur Potts

    THERE YOU HAVE IT!

    Defending others, responding to a divorce he deserved, ensuring his own right to recover for bodily injury!

    Elizabeth Mohl’s parents are divorced! Will you do this to them if/when it might be necessary to take action to recover for their loss? Can’t wait to see how you try to make a distinction!

    Tre Pathetique!

  • Badger Bugler

    Matthew:

    Just thought you should know that you just improperly used internal LIFEST documents and information there to threaten and harass Potts.

    We’ve already done the research and know where you got that from!

    Also, you have just shown LIFEST volunteers how insecure is a/all personal information is as well as how you and the LIE-FEST cohort will go with “ministry” records to lie and distract and cover up the truth!

    Say “Hello!” for me to your puppeteers! (Wes, Bob and Stan…?!)

    So, was that an invitation to POWER OF ONE? Power of Which One? Almighty God? Bob? LIFE PROMOTIONS? LIFEST?

    Just like the feedback request form: pro forma! No reply or participation desired!

    You’ve further demonstrate why LIFEST, et al, should not be trusted!

  • Badger Bugler

    Hey, Pundit!

    There is a huge difference between a rumor and a question asked and left unanswered.

    Also, you are not the first to deny such — others quickly shown to have lied.

    My apology was not a license or open door for future abuse!

    Like LIFEST, you “major in the minors and minor in the majors”!

    I bet you would have complained about the sound of the trumpets and tone of voice of those outside the walls of Jericho — ever comfrotable in your easy chair, scratching away on your stone tablet or reed scroll, ever ignoring the message being proclaimed! “And don’t care what is about to happen! I don’t like the tone of your voice! And tune up your trumpet! Empty that spit valve! You were divorced, so I don’t need to listen to you!”

    Boo hoo hoo!

    I can just imagine what you would have said to John the Baptist, Moses, Ezekiel, Jesus and Paul! Luther!

    You don’t have to like a thing I say or the way I say it! You are not called by God to like it, but to consider it and take warning! If you don’t want to take heed, then …

    Read Ezekiel 33 and Jesus’ “Lord! Lord!” promise!

    “Woe to you scribes and hypocrites, you heal the wounds of my people lightly, saying ['Liar! Liar!' and] ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no [liar or] peace!”

    Good luck with that!

    I long ago quit caring whether you took offense at the truth I have spoken. And that truth is not my God … my God is a God of truth!

    Deal with it!

    If you think I don’t suffer fools gladly, I can’t wait to see how God handles us at the judgment seat. Perhaps we’ll meet there before Power of One!

  • everyone’s a pundit

    You answer a clear rebuke of your abusiveness with… more abusiveness?!

    Unbelievable.

    Yeah, I’m done (though I’m certain I won’t have the last word).

  • Matthew

    Badger–
    I don’t work for lifefest you moron.

    Like someone said before, google is a wonderful thing. It’s not that hard to find information on someone like yourself.

    Just one more way for you to try and curse Life.

    I have no affiliation with them and could careless about your accusations towards them. Don’t be a fool my friend!

  • Crusader

    We’ve already done the research and know where you got that from!

    Look Badger aka Kris now has multiple personalities…isn’t that cute.

    “WE”, do you have a mouse in your pocket Kris?

  • Badger Bugler

    I’D MUCH RATHER … !

    I’d much rather be crippled and in a wheelchair with Jesus
    than be fully able bodied without Him!
    I’d rather walk in the corals with cowboys
    than walk in courts with kings and lose the common touch!
    .
    “When did I see you hungry and feed you, lonely and comfort you…?”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather be unable to restore my marriage
    because of my relationship with Christ
    than to spend decades in a marital bliss
    for having abandoned my right relationship with Him!
    .
    “He who denies me before men I will deny before my Father;
    he who proclaims me before men I will proclaim before my Father!”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather be a fallen sinner with personal problems
    and failures in a right relationship with Jesus Christ
    than be a “perfect, upright, self righteous success”
    without Him!”
    .
    “What does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather be a man who rests in and relies on
    the fear and admonition and peace of the Lord
    than be a man who “rests” in indefensible lies
    and re-lies and re-lies and re-lies on his own laurels!
    .
    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather be discontented on behalf of and with the Lord
    than be “contented” on behalf of and with His enemies!
    …to be grieved by the things that grieve the heart of God
    than to grieve the heart of God for causing such grief!
    .
    “As you failed to do it to the least of these my brethren
    you failed to do it unto me. Depart from me!”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable
    than comfort the comfortable and afflict the afflicted!
    I’d rather afflict those corrupted who oppress the afflicted
    and comfort those afflicted by the afflictions of the corrupted!
    .
    “For He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows,
    he was smitten of God and afflicted, yet we esteemed him not!”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather stand alone with God in proclaiming His truth
    than to stand with millions in proclaiming their lies!
    I’d rather live alone as an obedient servant of the Lord
    than to live with others in rebellion to His Holy Word!
    .
    “Who am I that I might go?”
    “Who am I that you would send me?”
    .
    .
    .
    I’d much rather be a “troublemaker” for the Lord
    than be a “peace maker” for Satan!
    For the “troubles” of the former will never
    be as bad or as lasting as the “peace” of the latter!
    .
    “Woe to you scribes and hypocrites:
    you heal the wounds of my people lightly,
    saying, ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no peace!”
    .
    .
    .
    In this wicked cold season
    of such lies and unreason
    I’m glad I’m not you
    I’d much rather be me!
    For I’m following Jesus…
    proclaiming truth … free!
    Just what about you, friend,
    which type will you be
    .
    “Well done, my good and faithful servant!”
    “I knew you in your mother’s womb,
    even before you were conceived!
    .
    .
    .
    Copyright 2007 by CSM, RSM & RSM

  • Badger Bugler

    Hey, Matt!

    I am not your friend!

    But what I’m pretty sure about is that you have been and are affiliated with LIFEST!

    So, my “friend,” I will be looking for you at Power of One — if it happens — and looking forward to the possibility of seeing someone (totally unrelated to me and not for me or on my behalf) serve you with papers, if you know what I mean “ol’ coot”!

    Still, not one of you has said anything here to enlighten the discussion of the events surrounding Elizabeth’s death. It is the “Inconvenient Truth” of LIFEST that Truth is not what LIE-FEST leaders (and some of their blind followers) are all about!

    Good luck with your foolishness!

    (I’m still trying to figure out how someone’s divorce of 18 years ago will play into the case of injury, destruction and death of a “Christian” music festival enarly two decades later a hundred miles and a whole “ministry” world away from anything to do with that “family.”

    Hmmmm….

    Hope you’re on the jury!

    Or will you be on the witness stand?

    Or on trial!?

    Hmmmm… again!

  • Badger Bugler

    “The greatest danger to liberty lurks in insidious encroachment
    by men of zeal, well meaning, but without understanding!”

    Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis

    No doubt you will apply this to me and Kris Potts, but the fact is: you all who claim to have no involvement or first hand knowledge of anything to do with the case or operations of LIFEST and the injuries to concert goers on Friday, July 13, 2007, and the tragic death of Elizabeth Mohl certainly have no problem engaging in blatant and indefensible “encroachment” with great zeal, perhaps (though a dubious claim, at best) ‘well meaning, but [in your utter lack of information and wisdom, distracting and irrelevant personal attacks and mendacious "Scarlet Letter" insinuations] without understanding.”

    You all are just too good at manfesting the phrase made famous by Steve Martin nearly 30 years ago: “Criticize things you don’t know about!”

    All of you who do so are not only “wild [but] crazy guy[s]“!

    Crazy being the operative word!

    How’s that working for you so far?

    Do you suppose you can plead insanity at the judgment seat?

    Good luck with that!

    For even if I, as you demand, become silent so you can worship the god of your own making than the God who made you, HE IS NOT SILENT!

    “Depart from me!”

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S. Matty, me boy! Given where you seem to imply you got that, then you should know he is not remotely afraid of such fools as you (Christian or otherwise, crook or cop, cowboy or king), no matter how high you raise the banner, claim the cause or name of Christ, and no matter who you call friend! If you want to look at it this way, he’s taken on much bigger and better than you and LIFEST without profit or personal gain and at great risk to himself!

    It seems from your ridiculous e-rap that you are an intellectual and spiritual pipsqueak, as a human being and as a Christian — if you even claim that name (which is a dubious claim, at best, as well)!

    Once again, just like others here, you make the very case you try to disprove! He’s not afraid to take on corruption and oppression, even in so-called “Christian minsitries.”

    Good and wonderful and devoted Christians are undoubtedly part of LIFEST and God has saved people at events it has been part of, but I would venture to say that it is in spite of the “ministry” it claims to be rather than because of it; in spite of it’s dishonest and dishonorable leadership tactics rather than because of them.

    God is a sovereign God who can turn “mourning into dancing”! He does not choose unrighteousness as the path to salvation, but He does use unrighteousness on one’s path to salvation. “He will work all things to good for those who love him and are called according to His purposes!” That’s why He’s used such a self-proclaimed LOSER as KRIS POTTS, but because he has confessed those things and humbled himself and tried and failed and kept on trying, willing to sharpened as iron sharpens iron and threshed like chaff from wheat and refined like gold fired to remove dross. He is not and does not pretend to any perfection or personal righteousness, as you and your “Happy Fun Time” LIFEST pals Wes & the Gang [Not remotely Kool & the Gang!] seem to do. His righteousness does not come by or from or in or through hosting or sponsoring some event featuring RIGHTEOUS PERFORMERS and operated, for the most part, by RIGHTEOUS VOLUNTEERS! His righteousness is only in his unrighteousness made right exclusively by the saving work of God through Jesus Christ and the welcomed indwelling of the Holy Spirit! (Not by denying the words of Jesus to be “born again of water and the Spirit,” as others here who are part of LIFEST’S leadership team have said!)

    So — especially in light of such denials of and open rebellion to the unequivocal and words of Jesus Christ Himself — the work of God at any LIFEST event cannot be claimed by man. But the failures must be.

    When you and LIFEST finally confess and repent of what they did at LIFEST, then someone might finally take you all seriously. Even if they do before you get right with God, one thing is for sure: GOD IS NOT IMPRESSED BY YOU OR ME OR KRIS POTTS — Matty, me Boy! — but only by people who, you may have seen on one of his sites, “learn and discern and seek and speak the truth”!

    Yeah, Kris Potts sure proclaims sick ungodly values, doesn’t he?

    Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything!

    You all have stood for nothing here. And you are trying to crush those who do!

    “He who is not for me is against me!”

    Kris Potts and others here with God…

    vs.

    …People who claim the name of “Christian,” deny Christ’s command to be “born again of water and the Spirit” and do everything possible to suppress the truth and keep down the grieving and oppressed by “healing the wounds of [His] people lightly saying ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no peace!”

    “I would rather that you were hot or cold but because you are lukewarm I will spew you out of my mouth!”

    You are the ones who have basically called me and Kris Potts a “hot head”! But you are luke warm in the worst way.

    Better a “hot head for heaven” than “wholly silent for hell”!

    Give me an “Amen!” Athiests (and You Occasional LIFEST Atheists in Hiding in Sheep’s Clothing)!

  • http://olvlzl.blogspot.com/ olvlzl, no ism, no ist

    Badger Bugler, I think that what you’re doing now qualifies you as OC. How do you get up in the morning?

  • Badger Bugler

    P.P.S. All your blather about Kris Potts and legal cases and you conveniently ignored — you trying to lie and decieve again, eh — the fact that Potts has said that there is no way he would claim any sort of legal right to any claim from his work experience at LIFEST! And that he’d publicly sign a waiver of liability to that effect. ON THE OTHER HAND, I wonder about all of the trash and lies being told about him now, all you folks caught up in libel, slander and defamation accusations against anyone who dares to take on LIFEST over factual claims! And what about harassment — which is a pattern of behavior with no legitimate purpose! It is legitimate to get truth to authorities, the public and others, but certainly not to lie about people and publicly harass them, or do so on behalf of others (you conspiring LIFEST minions out there), in order to cover up illegal activity. You might want to check out the laws on intimidating and harassing a witness (or victim) of a crime or perceived crime, as well as one who is acting on their behalf or in defense of them!

    Seems like your heads are still buried deep in weak and shifting sand, blinding you from the fact that your emporer has no clothes, while others — watchmen and trumpeters (and Buglers) — are standing on the Solid Rock of Jesus Christ, the Emporer of Emporers and King of Kings Who is clothed in power and glory now and forever!

    “And the storm came and the winds blew and the rain fell [sound like the week of LIFEST 2007] and their house fell because it was not founded upon The Rock — and great was the fall of it!”

  • Crusader

    Where is everyone else that is “in your boat”. Where are “all the others” that agree with you?

    And how will you serve someone papers whom you have never physically seen before?

    I think you are a media hungry, attention starved egomaniac.

  • Badger Bugler

    Cpowell said,

    July 20, 2007 at 7:47 am

    Badjer Bugler

    [WORD COUNTS BUT NO SPELL CHECK!?]

    So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you.

    [YET ANOTHER misapplication of Scripture! I was not the one “struck” or offended, but others. I am not called to turn the other cheek, but to speak the truth in love, speak truth to power, speak truth no matter the opposition and faithfully do the work of the wathman and trumpeter (and Bugler — Badger or otherwise)! If anyone wants to turnthe cheek, it is those who were injured. You again misapply Scripture to cause an even more ungodly outcome to this mix of a Godly and ungodly thing called LIE-FEST 2007!”

    “You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud…”

    ACTUALLY, YOU CONFUSE the people who are speaking out about people literally being dragged throgh the mud at LIFEST with those who did the dragging or willfully and knowingly allowed them to be dragged through the mud! Again, you miss the target, by far and wide!

    “… thats slandor …”

    AGAIN, MAYBE YOU MISS THE DEFINITION BECAUSE IT IS “SLANDER” (Which is unbiblical, un-Christian and illegal, etc.). But, CPOWELL, what you failed to C is that slander is telling lies about people and bearing false witness. The literal and legal and spiritual defense to the charge of libel, slander and defamation is this: that the thing said or written was true!

    Also, maybe you’re thinking of “rumors,” which are in the same category of sin, if you will (and many of you will spread rumors, as you’ve shown)! But lest you think the claims made here are rumors, those are defined as things heard and said and passed on over which the rumor monger has no first hand experience or knowledge, etc.

    You see, friends, you keep hoisting yourselves on your own pitard — the righteous sword of God’s Word (and your own words)! You’ve entered a serious spiritual and factual battle and a battle of wits, as well, and have been revealed to be unarmed!

    “…and if I am correct very against biblical principles….”

    IF YOU MEAN atacks like your based on your willful ignorance and arrogant proclamations based upon them in blatant defiance to God’s Word and the truth and wisdom spoken by someone who has backed it up with that Word and explanations of incidents from a first-hand perspective, then Yes, what you have correctly concluded is that you have violated “biblical principles”!

    “But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around.”

    YES, WHICH IS WHAT YOU and others have done, with no application or basis in biblical or incidental truth relating to the willful and wantonly reckless conduct, injuries and death at LIFEST!

    “I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.”

    AHA, now I think I know you! I heard the same things at LIFEST when others were trying to get sedcurity directors and others to do the right thing! Were you a LIFEST leader and volunteer. Is the work you must get to related to lying and file shredding?

    Hmmmm….

  • Badger Bugler

    Cpowell said,

    July 20, 2007 at 7:47 am

    Badjer Bugler

    [WORD COUNTS BUT NO SPELL CHECK!?]

    So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you.

    [YET ANOTHER misapplication of Scripture! I was not the one “struck” or offended, but others. I am not called to turn the other cheek, but to speak the truth in love, speak truth to power, speak truth no matter the opposition and faithfully do the work of the wathman and trumpeter (and Bugler — Badger or otherwise)! If anyone wants to turnthe cheek, it is those who were injured. You again misapply Scripture to cause an even more ungodly outcome to this mix of a Godly and ungodly thing called LIE-FEST 2007!”

    “You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud…”

    ACTUALLY, YOU CONFUSE the people who are speaking out about people literally being dragged throgh the mud at LIFEST with those who did the dragging or willfully and knowingly allowed them to be dragged through the mud! Again, you miss the target, by far and wide!

    “… thats slandor …”

    AGAIN, MAYBE YOU MISS THE DEFINITION BECAUSE IT IS “SLANDER” (Which is unbiblical, un-Christian and illegal, etc.). But, CPOWELL, what you failed to C is that slander is telling lies about people and bearing false witness. The literal and legal and spiritual defense to the charge of libel, slander and defamation is this: that the thing said or written was true!

    Also, maybe you’re thinking of “rumors,” which are in the same category of sin, if you will (and many of you will spread rumors, as you’ve shown)! But lest you think the claims made here are rumors, those are defined as things heard and said and passed on over which the rumor monger has no first hand experience or knowledge, etc.

    You see, friends, you keep hoisting yourselves on your own pitard — the righteous sword of God’s Word (and your own words)! You’ve entered a serious spiritual and factual battle and a battle of wits, as well, and have been revealed to be unarmed!

    “…and if I am correct very against biblical principles….”

    IF YOU MEAN atacks like your based on your willful ignorance and arrogant proclamations based upon them in blatant defiance to God’s Word and the truth and wisdom spoken by someone who has backed it up with that Word and explanations of incidents from a first-hand perspective, then Yes, what you have correctly concluded is that you have violated “biblical principles”!

    “But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around.”

    YES, WHICH IS WHAT YOU and others have done, with no application or basis in biblical or incidental truth relating to the willful and wantonly reckless conduct, injuries and death at LIFEST!

    “I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.”

    AHA, now I think I know you! I heard the same things at LIFEST when others were trying to get security directors and others to do the right thing! Were you a LIFEST leader and volunteer. Is the work you must get to related to lying and file shredding?

    Hmmmm….

  • Badger Bugler

    Cpowell said,

    July 20, 2007 at 7:47 am

    Badjer Bugler

    [WORD COUNTS BUT NO SPELL CHECK!?]

    So you spoke the truth and did not turn the other check, good for you.

    [YET ANOTHER misapplication of Scripture! I was not the one “struck” or offended, but others. I am not called to turn the other cheek, but to speak the truth in love, speak truth to power, speak truth no matter the opposition and faithfully do the work of the wathman and trumpeter (and Bugler — Badger or otherwise)! If anyone wants to turnthe cheek, it is those who were injured. You again misapply Scripture to cause an even more ungodly outcome to this mix of a Godly and ungodly thing called LIE-FEST 2007!”

    “You did what you thought was right. But it is not right to drag names through the mud…”

    ACTUALLY, YOU CONFUSE the people who are speaking out about people literally being dragged throgh the mud at LIFEST with those who did the dragging or willfully and knowingly allowed them to be dragged through the mud! Again, you miss the target, by far and wide!

    “… thats slandor …”

    AGAIN, MAYBE YOU MISS THE DEFINITION BECAUSE IT IS “SLANDER” (Which is unbiblical, un-Christian and illegal, etc.). But, CPOWELL, what you failed to C is that slander is telling lies about people and bearing false witness. The literal and legal and spiritual defense to the charge of libel, slander and defamation is this: that the thing said or written was true!

    Also, maybe you’re thinking of “rumors,” which are in the same category of sin, if you will (and many of you will spread rumors, as you’ve shown)! But lest you think the claims made here are rumors, those are defined as things heard and said and passed on over which the rumor monger has no first hand experience or knowledge, etc.

    You see, friends, you keep hoisting yourselves on your own pitard — the righteous sword of God’s Word (and your own words)! You’ve entered a serious spiritual and factual battle and a battle of wits, as well, and have been revealed to be unarmed!

    “…and if I am correct very against biblical principles….”

    IF YOU MEAN atacks like your based on your willful ignorance and arrogant proclamations based upon them in blatant defiance to God’s Word and the truth and wisdom spoken by someone who has backed it up with that Word and explanations of incidents from a first-hand perspective, then Yes, what you have correctly concluded is that you have violated “biblical principles”!

    “But we could sit here all day throughing “the bible says this”, “the bible says that” quotes around.”

    YES, WHICH IS WHAT YOU and others have done, with no application or basis in biblical or incidental truth relating to the willful and wantonly reckless conduct, injuries and death at LIFEST!

    “I have to go to work so forgive me for not having the “time”.”

    AHA, now I think I know you! I heard the same things at LIFEST when others were trying to get security directors and others to do the right thing!

    Were you a LIFEST leader and volunteer?

    Is the work you must get to related to lying and file shredding?

    Who will you serve this day?

    As for me and my house, we will serve the Author of All Truth!

    Hmmmm….

  • Badger Bugler

    olvlzl, no ism, no ist said,

    July 24, 2007 at 6:39 pm

    Badger Bugler, I think that what you’re doing now qualifies you as OC. How do you get up in the morning?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    WOW, PRAISE JESUS! Finally, Lord, a Compliment!

    olvlzl, no ism, no ist has finally seen the wisdom of Your Words and the wonder of my ways — s/he’s called me an OUTSTANDING CHRISTIAN!

    But olvlzl, no ism, no ist’s greatest praise will never exceed your most withering criticism in its ability to encouarge and edify me!

    Didn’t find warmth in those statuettes, even less in the words of (wo)men!

  • Badger Bugler

    ALL OF YOU ALSO IGNORE all of the biblical exhortations to be a faithful worker worthy of his wages. One may wonder why volunteers and staffers at LIFEST failed and refused, but I think Kris Potts saw that he was working in the service of and for the “upward call of God in Christ Jesus.”

    “Therefore, seeing that we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every wieght and sin which does beset us and let us run with perseverence the race that is set before us, lokking to Jesus Christ, the pioneer and perfector of our faith, who for the shame that was set before him, despised the cross and is now seated at the right hand of God!”

    That is a “wage” greater than any man can offer and, as man can not serve two masters, it seems that Kris knew that he had to stop at nothing to try to serve and save (spiritually and literally) those whom God had entrusted to his care and that of others. And he also faithfully did the duty his LIFEST “bosses” gave him, and is even doing so by publicly proclaiming what LIFEST asked of security volunteers to do in writing in letters sent our on July 20, to give feedback and correction all manner of operations, including the conduct of security leaders and directors. If they do not want anyone to know about this, why did they ask for the feedbak and promise that there would be no repercussions for it? Who is bearing false witness? Who are the hypocrites? Would they have ever told the public about Kris Potts’ serious concerns if he hadn’t done so himself? Would they have told the authorities about what he is saying? If so, then why are they working so hard to discredit him now?

    LIFEST, LIE-FEST, li-ability, lie-ability!

    “And great was the fall of it!”

  • Maria

    Badger Bugler, I think that what you’re doing now qualifies you as OC. How do you get up in the morning?

    LOL, seriously. Badger Bugler, you are scary. You’re just sounding like an angry internet troll……

  • anonymous

    I have never witnessed anyone who enjoys speaking in the 3rd person so much

  • andy

    Has anyone seen the court cases this guy has. Holy crap!
    Someone was busy.

    CCAP – Kris Potts

    and the saddest part is I think he is proud of it!

  • Badger Bugler

    In his integrity, the moderator has passed on reports of your complaints that you don’t like what I write.

    He graciously passed on your request in the friendly way that is his true reputation.

    Yet, as to who might have asked for this, it almost certainly would not have been an atheist, as they usually love to see Christians tackle each other, whether over legitimate or illegitimate matters.

    So that seems to leave we “Christians,” which proves my point perfectly. That silencing the truth is something so many of you wish to do. Sad state of affairs when you have to ask an atheist web host to silence a Christian for you on a matter so seriously involving a Christian group, “Christians” and issues of CHristian faith and fact.

    As I see it, you did your cause an incredibel disservice, but as Wes Halula does at every step, affirms the very points he seems intent on squashing!

    Well, good luck with all of that!

    As does this, demosntrting incredible inattentiveness to the facts:

    “andy said,
    July 25, 2007 at 12:04 am
    Has anyone seen the court cases this guy has. Holy crap!
    Someone was busy.
    CCAP – Kris Potts
    and the saddest part is I think he is proud of it!”

    The sad thing is that I posted this and you add nothing that declares anything bad abot the “math” of it all, as you once again focus on style, word counts and mathematical calculations over facts and substance… and you seem proud of that!!!

    As a pastor friend says, “Figures lie and liars figure!”

    Good luck with that part of your lives too!

    And there is no doubt that you don’t want evidence like phone records or to debate this publicly, because you have and know neither the facts or the law. It is just easier, as so many rail ont hese days and one dares to call himself/herself here, to be a pundit instead of actually doing and standing for something yourselves. And the role of LIFEST insiders here is more clear than you will ever admit (and have lied about) and is already clear!

    I know people willig to sign waivers of liability and claims for LIFEST’S benefit to prove the foolishness and untenability of your inedfensible position(s) about “facts,” “credibility” and “motives” here! Bet you won’t do the same! And you would never dare share a round table or stage or church conference room (for Mtthew Model accountability) with the principles here, not because they are crazy, but because who is right and who is wrong, telling the truth and lies, will be exposed so quickly that you fear the public repercussions and shame — and it is not Kris Potts who will be shamed and exposed.

    Kris Potts is proud of nothing you say he is, but neither ashamed of anything you’d wish. You effuse arrogance, ignorance and hubris, while he speaks truth with confidence, clarity and humility! Deal wth it! (As we now leave you to your own dull devices, spiritual and otherwise, to do everything here but discuss actual facts!)

    “Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story” against those who have exposed the fact that the emporers of LIFEST have no clothes!

    To what was God doing when all hell ws breaking loose at the hand of careless LIFEST leaders?

    “Jesus wept!”

    He’s weaping still!

    But He is not silent!

    So good luck with that, too!

    Goodbye!

  • Badger Bugler

    Dear True Christians and Lions:

    In his enduring integrity and friendliness, the host/moderator here has passed on reports of your complaints that you don’t like what I write.

    Yet, as to who might have asked for this, it almost certainly would not have been an atheist, as they usually love to see Christians tackle each other, whether over legitimate or illegitimate matters.

    So that seems to leave we “Christians,” which proves my point perfectly. That silencing the truth is something so many of you wish to do. Sad state of affairs when you have to ask an atheist web host to silence a Christian for you on a matter so seriously involving a Christian group, “Christians” and issues of CHristian faith and fact.

    As I see it, you did your cause an incredible disservice; but as Wes Halula does at every step and every time he speaks publicly, you affirm the very points you seem intent on squashing! As does this, demonstrating incredible inattentiveness to the facts:

    “andy said,
    July 25, 2007 at 12:04 am
    Has anyone seen the court cases this guy has. Holy crap!
    Someone was busy.
    CCAP – Kris Potts
    and the saddest part is I think he is proud of it!”

    The sad thing is that I posted this and you add nothing that declares anything bad about the “math” of it all, as you once again focus on style, word counts and mathematical calculations over facts and substance… and you seem proud of that!!!

    As a pastor friend says, “Figures lie and liars figure!” Good luck with that well documnted part of your lives too!

    There is no (not little, but no) doubt that you don’t want evidence like phone records or to debate this publicly, because you have and know neither the facts or the law, and care about neither, whether the laws of man or of God. It is just easier, as so many rail on these days and one dares to call himself/herself here, to be a “pundit” instead of an original or truly critical, wise and discerning thinker and believer actually doing and standing for something yourselves.

    Also, lest you think you’ve fooled anyone here (which Wes has given up on his own) the role of LIFEST insiders here is more clear than you will ever admit (and have lied about) and is already clear!

    As for you conspiracy and “disgruntled volunteer” nuts, I know people willig to sign waivers of liability and claims for LIFEST’S benefit to prove the foolishness and untenability of your inedfensible position(s) about “facts,” “credibility” and “motives” here!

    The e-mail from Stan Alt posted above proves that Halula lied again to another reporter for a story posted worldwide Tuesday. Somewhere in it all, Wes, my boy, missed that little niggling thing about “bering false witness” — yet simultaneously confessed responsibility for things Potts has accused LIFEST of doing wrong. (Oh, boy, Wes! You called Potts a liar and “grandstander” when it turns out your Grandstand and Strike Team Security Director, Stan Alt, actually recruited him under a no mosh and danger and violence policy! Sound ad hominem, mendacious and plain dishonest to us, Halula, me “brother in Christ”!

    Sounds, Wes, like you have just confessed liability for all of the injuries at THE EDGE on Friday, that the operator ran in the lightning and you did not stop him, and so much more! Has anyone ever told you that the critical prerequisite to speaking the truth is having the truth to speak?! Why won’t you speak the truth unfettered by your own self-serving agenda?

    Wes, ths is not funny and it is not Comedy Sportz! It is also not Happy Fun Time Lounge! You are out of your depth, ot of your league, out of God’s will, out of the truth and, thus, out of your spiritual mind! What, after all, does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul. Yours, I fear, is on the line.

    I would encourage you to stop talking and seriously consider resigning your position to protect your own spiritual welfare and whatever professional reputation you might have left and/or be able to restore (that’s a pretty high grandstand, Wessy, and I’d hate to see you end up in the same pickle jar as Kris Potts!) before you also risk the possibility of charges for knowingly speaking lies on behalf of your board in a manner that might be seen as wrongfully harassing those attempting to report what they believe are crimes. You and your bord memebrs might do well to read the Wisconsin State Statutes on intimidating a victim and/or witness! (This is a criminal statute, Wessy, me boy!) Your effort to “expose embarrassing information” about Kris Potts in order to dissuadde him from speaking to investigators can be charged as a crime! Do you know this? Iis called INTIMIDATION OF A WITNESS/VICTIM (Felony)! Not that it will be charged, Wes, but it can! I don’t know Christian Gossettt, but I bet he won’t be happy to read that you are effectively threatening and harassing a witness.

    Now that you’ve had your fun casting laurels upon yourselves and each other like a pack of rabid Roman Senators and tossing yourselves across the LIFEST chmbers into them like chidren into piles of marshmallows, celebrating your seeming victory over the great Satan, Kris Potts, you may wish to consider this: It may be time to declare upon yourself, my friend, the Royal Manifestation of the Much Revered Brown Bag Foul! Crown yourself with the crown that will serve you best right now, since you ignore the Crown of Christ! After all, you are not a lion of the Lord, but a paper lion!

    Speaking of kings, would you ever dare share a round table — or stage or church conference room (for Matthew Model accountability) — with the principles here? Not because they are crazy, but because who is right and who is wrong, telling the truth and lies, will be exposed so quickly that you fear the public repercussions and shame! (And it is not Kris Potts who will be shamed and exposed!)

    Unlike you, Kris Potts is proud of nothing you say he is, but neither ashamed of anything you’d wish. You effuse arrogance, ignorance and hubris, while he speaks truth with confidence, clarity and humility! Deal wth it! (As we now leave you to your own dull devices, spiritual and otherwise, to do everything here but discuss actual facts!)

    “Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story” against those who have exposed the fact that the emporers of LIFEST have no clothes!

    To what was God doing when all hell ws breaking loose at the hand of careless LIFEST leaders?

    “Jesus wept!”

    He’s weaping still!

    But He is not silent!

    So good luck with that, too!

    Goodbye!

  • Badger Bugler

    See if thisis Comedy Sportz, Wes and LIFEST, or the real deal that deserves your absolute respect!

    Your implied threats and tactics against Kris Potts are way beyond the pale, if also especially because you claim to be a “Christian ministry”!

    940.42
    940.42 Intimidation of witnesses; misdemeanor. Except as provided in s. 940.43, whoever knowingly and maliciously prevents or dissuades, or who attempts to so prevent or dissuade any witness from attending or giving testimony at any trial, proceeding or inquiry authorized by law, is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    940.42 – ANNOT.
    History: 1981 c. 118.

    940.42 – ANNOT.
    When a mother and child were to testify against the defendant and the defendant sent letters to the the mother urging that she and the child not testify, regardless of whether the letters were addressed to the child or the child was aware of the letter’s contents, the defendant attempted to dissuade the child through her mother. As the mother of the minor child, had the parental responsibility and practical authority to monitor communications by third parties with the child, and to influence whether the child cooperated with the court proceedings, there was sufficient evidence to convict. State v. Moore, 2006 WI App 61, 292 Wis. 2d 101, 713 N.W.2d 131, 04-3227.

    940.42 – ANNOT.
    This section supports charging a person with a separate count for each letter sent, and each other act performed, for the purpose of attempting to dissuade any witness from attending or giving testimony at a court proceeding or trial. State v. Moore, 2006 WI App 61, 292 Wis. 2d 101, 713 N.W.2d 131, 04-3227.

    940.44
    940.44 Intimidation of victims; misdemeanor. Except as provided in s. 940.45, whoever knowingly and maliciously prevents or dissuades, or who attempts to so prevent or dissuade, another person who has been the victim of any crime or who is acting on behalf of the victim from doing any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:

    940.44(1)
    (1) Making any report of the victimization to any peace officer or state, local or federal law enforcement or prosecuting agency, or to any judge.

    940.44(2)
    (2) Causing a complaint, indictment or information to be sought and prosecuted and assisting in the prosecution thereof.

    940.44(3)
    (3) Arresting or causing or seeking the arrest of any person in connection with the victimization.

    940.44 – ANNOT.
    History: 1981 c. 118.

    940.44 – ANNOT.
    A jury instruction for a violation of s. 940.44 should specify the underlying crime and that a defendant cannot be found guilty of intimidating a victim of a crime unless the elements of the underlying crime are proved beyond a reasonable doubt. State v. Thomas, 161 Wis. 2d 616, 468 N.W.2d 729 (Ct. App. 1991).

    940.44 – ANNOT.
    Acquittal on the underlying charge does not require acquittal on a charge under s. 940.44 as the jury may have exercised its right to return a not guilty verdict irrespective of evidence on the underlying charge. State v. Thomas, 161 Wis. 2d 616, 468 N.W.2d 729 (Ct. App. 1991).

    940.44 – ANNOT.
    The disorderly conduct statute, s. 947.01, does not require a victim, but when the disorderly conduct is directed at a person, that person is the victim for the purpose of prosecuting the perpetrator for intimidating a victim under this section. State v. Vinje, 201 Wis. 2d 98, 548 N.W.2d 118 (Ct. App. 1996), 95-1484.

    940.45
    940.45 Intimidation of victims; felony. Whoever violates s. 940.44 under any of the following circumstances is guilty of a Class G felony:

    940.45(1)
    (1) Where the act is accompanied by force or violence or attempted force or violence, upon the victim, or the spouse, child, stepchild, foster child, treatment foster child, parent, sibling or grandchild of the victim or any person sharing a common domicile with the victim.

    940.45(2)
    (2) Where the act is accompanied by injury or damage to the real or personal property of any person covered under sub. (1).

    940.45(3)
    (3) Where the act is accompanied by any express or implied threat of force, violence, injury or damage described in sub. (1) or (2).

    940.45(4)
    (4) Where the act is in furtherance of any conspiracy.

    940.45(5)
    (5) Where the act is committed by any person who has suffered any prior conviction for any violation under ss. 940.42 to 940.45, s. 943.30, 1979 stats., or any federal statute or statute of any other state which, if the act prosecuted was committed in this state, would be a violation under ss. 940.42 to 940.45.

    940.45(6)
    (6) Where the act is committed by any person for monetary gain or for any other consideration acting on the request of any other person. All parties to the transactions are guilty under this section.

    940.45 – ANNOT.
    History: 1981 c. 118; 1997 a. 143; 2001 a. 109.

    940.46
    940.46 Attempt prosecuted as completed act. Whoever attempts the commission of any act prohibited under ss. 940.42 to 940.45 is guilty of the offense attempted without regard to the success or failure of the attempt. The fact that no person was injured physically or in fact intimidated is not a defense against any prosecution under ss. 940.42 to 940.45.

    940.46 – ANNOT.
    History: 1981 c. 118.

  • Sychose S.

    bugler do you have anything but:

    - cliche, e.g. “good luck with [all] that” and “Never let the facts get in the way of telling a good story”;

    - inuendo, e.g. “Money over safety…” (w.r.t. Lifest leadership), “‘Pastor’ Jeff McGregor” and “‘Christian’ Band SKILLET”;

    - paranoid speculation, e.g. “the role of LIFEST insiders here is more clear than you will ever admit” , “many of you will spread rumors, as you’ve shown”, and “Just thought you should know that you just improperly used internal LIFEST documents and information there” (you do remember that the names Jessica Potts and Megan Potts are a matter of public record, having been associated in court records with Kris Potts, don’t you?);

    - repeated re-posted edits of your posts (just look above, there are plenty of examples); and

    - name calling, e.g. “GLOBALI-NAZI”, “LIE-FEST”, and “Wessy”

    in the bag of tricks you’re using to intimidate these folks? if so, i think it’s time to get them out. you’ve gotten all of the mileage you can get out of these tired old horses. your victims are restless and seem to be getting uppity. it’s a good thing you are able to bury them in words, at least! whether or not they have any actual substance. that journalism background sure comes in handy, boy howdy!

    oh, and by the way, you’re welcome!

    ps – do you sleep??

  • Crusader

    cricket…cricket

    cricket…cricket……..

  • Tammy

    I was at Lifest 2007. It was a VERY sad time for Liz’s family and other festival attendees that witnessed such a tragic event. I watched as Lifest people and thousands of others tearfully prayed for Liz and her family. It was a heart-wrentching time. There were delayed events, lots of prayer-filled moments, and a significantly toned down remainder of the event once everyone was notifed of what happened. Many youth were seen praying and it was very solemn. Our God is good and He did NOT cause Liz to die an early death. He LOVES her, her family, and He LOVES us. We don’t understand everything that happens here on earth, but I know one thing for sure…our God is a GOOD GOD and He LOVES us (ALL of us!)!

  • Badger Bugler

    Thank you for your word of encouragement and affirmation from the team at LIFE PROMOTIONS, LIFE SPEAKING, LIFE DEVOTIONS & LIFEST!

    So sad that this message fails to mention that the concert at THE EDGE stage, where all the injuries occurred the night before and which was located 30 yards from the corral containing AIR GLORY, did not stop or soften for one moment! (And fails to speak other necessary and extremely probative but inconvenient truths!) If it and more people would on this and many other matters, “We [would] understand everything that happen[ed] here on earth [at LIFEST]“!

    And I do agree with this: “…but I know one thing for sure…our God is a GOOD GOD and He LOVES us (ALL of us!)!”

    So sad that this does not include me — at least not as LIFEST and so many of you “see” it!

    Be aware that Wes Halula has given these posts to the authorities in a seeming effort to “distract from the death of Elizabeth Mohl” — a prospect he found so repulsive in his interview with http://www.WLUK.com (“Both Sides: LIFEST”). See, he now believes that the divorce and private matters of Kris Potts can prove to authorities that LIFEST did nothing wrong to contibute in any way to the injuries of guests at THE EDGE on Friday and tragic incident at Air Glory on Saturday.

    We can only pray that Wes and his band of merry men at Life Promotions and the local law enforcement community do not do the same to the divorced parents of Elizabeth Mohl when they might need to do legitimate, right and necessary things to ensure that thy and Elizabeth obtin justice in the legal realm. Just what, I wonder, will LIFEST say about what their divorce had to do in relation to their seeming contributory role Elizabeth’s death!

    After all, if you buy Wes’ stated theory, none of what anyone says about the injuries and death can be true nor should they be properly and fully investigated or examined and tested for veracity if the person seeking justice has any past life experiences unrelted to LIFEST!

    Good luck with that Wes!

    You may distract the earthly authorities and somehow blind them to the truth and avoid accountability and true justice, but God Himself (whom you claim to worship and serve and in Whose Name you resume to speak), is and will ever be the One True Trier of fact and truth and Righteous Judge who is neither impressed with your lies, your tactics, your tone and intimidation, etc., nor blinded to the truth and your motives. And, “‘Justice/Vengeance is mine!’ sayeth the Lord”

    Pretty sure there will be no Comdey Sportz in heaven, Wes!

    Whistle on Wes! BROWN BAD FOUL! For Wes! LIFEST! Life Promotions! And the whole lot of those who dishonor Christ and the memory of all of those hurt at LIFEST! And shame on anyone — public, Church, investigtors and/or media — who buy into your lies!

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

  • andy

    I worship life promotions! I worship the ground BOB LENZ walks on! I even worship LIFEST! Long live LIFEST! Too bad Badger doesnt see it my way. Come on badger, just go along with the system. Its so much easier on this side. Be a follower. (Is this what you want me to say Badger? Is this what you believe I think? Oh wait it doesnt matter because no matter what I say or write, you believe what you believe end of story.)

    By the way Badger, have you actually ever met or communicated with a STAFF MEMBER of LIFE PROMOTIONS? Have you ever met WES? HMMMMMM.

    Didnt think so!

  • James

    wow………..

  • Badger Bugler

    Abso-posi-lutely me the Brown Bag Fouler Extra-ordinaire, Bob Lenz, Mitch Lautenslager, Tom Magnin, Val, Tammy, Ted, Donny, Jimmy, Bobby, Cubby, Annette and Roy (oh, and Uncle Walt, too)!

    L-I-F…

    E-S-T

    T-R-AG-E-DY

  • Badger Bugler

    Abso-posi-lutely met the Communication King, Prince of Torts, False Wit and Witness in Chief, and Brown Bag Fouler Extra-ordinaire (also stood by shocked and awed as he lied to the cameras on site at LIFEST, putting on crocodile tears like a funeral-departing Bill Clinton at Tony Campolo’s side), Bob Lenz, Mitch and Mrs. Lautenslager, Tom Magnin, Ted, Val, Tammy, Ted, Donny, Jimmy, Bobby, Cubby, Annette and Roy (oh, and Uncle Walt, too, and so many more)!

    L-I-F…

    E-S-T…

    T-R-AG-E-DY!

    Ignorance and arrogance run rampant on Golden Pond, up there!

    By the way, what’s your name and your connection to LIEFEST?

  • Badger Bugler

    From the Report on the death at LIFEST from the Wisconsin Department of Commerce, which detailed 25 Violations by the operator:

    3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

    Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

    Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Event sponsors — LIFEST, which had a “risk manager” on site who presumably thought this risk was worth taking — are obligated to ensure that these certificates are in place prior to a ride ever taking its place on the grounds, let alone operating.

    You all have enjoyed challenging my assertion that LIFEST had plenty of opportunities to prevent injuryand death at LIFEST when I and others raised concerns, and apparently bought into every batch of Kool Aid Wes Halula has mixed up and served you, but this report proves that they filed from the “get go” by allowing Air Glory to set up and operate in blatant violation of state statutes, administrative code and mandatory policies and procedures.

    Go figure! LIFEST had its own chance in Wisconsin to be a Badger Bugler, trumpeting the warning. Instead, they have assassinated the character of those who — “despising the shame” of the cross of ignorance and arrogance you have crucified them and their character on — dared to tell the truth LIFEST has refused to stand up for and tell, since even before LIFEST began and the rides began rolling.

  • Badger Bugler

    INCREDIBLE…

    Wanna talk about recklessness, negligence and ignored warnings…

    As I write this, NBC News is reporting repeated incidents of astronauts FLYING THE SPACE SHUTTLES and FIGHTER JETS under the influence of alcohol!

    So, just who do you trust?

    Who should you trust?

    Trust LIFEST!

  • Badger Bugler

    Wisconsin Department of Commerce
    P. O. Box 7970
    Madison, Wisconsin 53707
    (608) 266-1018
    TDD #: (608) 264-8777

    Jim Doyle, Governor
    Mary P. Burke, Secretary

    To: Interested Parties
    Fr: Wisconsin Department of Commerce
    Re: Giant Swing Ride (Serial Number 2126009) Incident
    Dt: July 27, 2007

    This memo outlines the Department of Commerce’s investigation and inspection findings relating to the Air Glory incident; the Department’s measures in response to the incident; and background on Wisconsin’s amusement ride safety program administered by the Department.

    Summary of Air Glory Incident and Investigation Findings

    On Saturday, July 14, 2007, at approximately 5:45 PM, the owner of Air Glory, Gary Ross, informed Commerce Occupational Safety Inspector Shirley Noltemeyer by telephone of an accident involving a rider, Elizabeth Mohl, falling from his Giant Swing ride (Serial Number 2126009). The incident took place the Lifest event held at the Winnebago County Fairgrounds, 500 E. County Trunk Y, Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The Oshkosh Police at the scene informed Noltemeyer that the ride was shut down and would be available for inspection the next day.

    On Sunday, July 15, 2007, at approximately 10:00 AM, Noltemeyer commenced an initial inspection of the Giant Swing ride and its safety equipment at that time. Noltemeyer’s initial inspection included the harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring that attached the rider to the ride. While the initial inspection indicated that the harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring were in good operating condition, Noltemeyer requested that the Oshkosh Police impound the ride to prevent its operation and to preserve the condition of the ride pending a full investigation and inspection. Upon the request, the Oshkosh Police impounded the ride. In addition, the Safety & Buildings Division in the Department of Commerce issued a red-tag that prohibits further operation of the ride until approved by the Department.

    On Tuesday, July 17, 2007, Commerce Inspectors Terry Clark, Tim Condon, Scott Amacher and Noltemeyer conducted a detailed inspection of the ride.

    After thorough inspections and review, the Commerce inspectors found that that the structure and condition of the ride did not contribute to the incident (See attached Accident Investigation and Inspection Memorandum). Specifically, the harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring that attach the ride to the rider were all in safe operating condition and did not contribute to the incident.

    On July 17, Commerce issued a red-tag order and letter prohibiting Air Glory from operating this ride and other similar rides in Wisconsin.

    On July 27, 2007, Commerce inspector Terry Clark issued a final Safety Inspection Report and Orders citing Air Glory for 25 code violations related to the ride and ordering Air Glory to correct these 25 code violations. Four of the code violations relate to the operator’s failure to maintain records documenting the required assembly, daily, and nondestructive inspections. The

    Page 2

    violations cited did not contribute to the incident, as none of the violations relate to the condition of the attachment points between the rider and the ride. (See attached Safety Inspection Report and Orders).

    The finding that the structure and condition of the ride did not contribute to the incident is consistent with the witness statements and Oshkosh Police incident reports.

    Department of Commerce Response

    In response to this incident and upon consideration of the subsequent investigation and inspection, Secretary Burke has directed the Division of Safety and Buildings to implement the following measures immediately:

    1. Prohibit Air Glory, its owner, and any rides owned or operated by Air Glory or it owner, including the Giant Swing ride, from operating in Wisconsin for the remainder of 2007.

    2. Prohibit Air Glory and its owner from operating any ride in Wisconsin for a minimum of 5 years unless and until the Department of Commerce inspects and approves any ride they seek to operate prior to its first use.

    3. Enact an emergency rule to minimize the possibility of operator error by setting out explicit requirements for rides that suspend riders with carabineers, harnesses, and wires.

    4. Launch a thorough review of the amusement ride safety program, reopen the rules governing amusement rides, solicit input, and evaluate other state’s programs to ensure that Wisconsin has the highest possible safety standard for amusement rides.

    Commerce’s Amusement Ride Safety Program Background

    Registration Requirements.

    Amusement rides in Wisconsin or entering Wisconsin must be registered with the Department of Commerce prior to operation. Registration requires the submission of owner and ride information as well as a schedule of where and when the ride will be operating within the state. In addition, non-mobile or fixed rides must undergo a plan review and approval prior to operation.

    Owner Inspection Requirements.

    The owner of amusement rides must conduct and document the following inspections:

    • Inspection at Assembly – The owner is responsible for a visual inspection of the ride when it is assembled to check for defects and make sure fasteners are properly installed.

    • Daily Inspection and Operational Tests – Before any rider is allowed to ride each day, operators must inspect and test the ride, including all control devices, speed-limiting devices, brakes, and other safety equipment.

    • Nondestructive Test – Every 3,000 operating hours or three years – whichever comes first – the owner of rides like the Giant Swing must test the structural integrity of ride using a non-destructive test, such as an X-ray.

    In addition, the assembly and disassembly of rides must be done by or under the supervision of an authorized person and rides must be operated by an authorized person of at least 18 years of age.

    Sponsor Requirements.

    Page 3

    Any person, group or business contracting with a ride owner for the use of an amusement ride must include in its contract a provision that the owner is in compliance with the requirements of Wisconsin law and regulations on amusement rides.

    Commerce Inspections.

    In addition to the owner inspections, the Department of Commerce conducts regular inspections, usually on a surprise basis, using the itinerary provided during the registration process. Each year, Commerce inspects approximately 60% of the Class 1 and Class 2 rides (carnival type
    rides). These inspections include reviewing the structure and condition of the ride, including the safety equipment, electrical equipment, fire safety, ingress and egress. The inspections also includes a review of records to ensure that the other three types of inspections have occurred.
    When violations are found, Commerce inspectors write orders requiring owners to correct the violation. In cases that pose an immediate safety threat, Commerce inspectors red-tag dangerous rides and immediately shut them down.

    In June 2006, Secretary Burke strengthened Commerce’s inspection program by adopting rules that allow Commerce inspectors to red-tag dangerous facilities, including amusement rides. Once red-tagged, it is illegal to operate the ride in Wisconsin. Prior to the adoption of red-tag
    authority, Commerce inspectors had to rely on the authority of other officials, such as local law enforcement, carnival management, or ride manufacturers, to shut down a dangerous ride. The red-tag issued against Air Glory’s Giant Swing ride is the third amusement ride case in which Commerce inspectors have needed to invoke their red-tag authority.
    Commerce officials in the amusement ride program believe that this is the first fatality on an amusement ride in Wisconsin since 1979.

  • Badger Bugler

    Wisconsin Department of Commerce
    P. O. Box 7970
    Madison, Wisconsin 53707
    (608) 266-1018
    TDD #: (608) 264-8777

    Jim Doyle, Governor
    Mary P. Burke, Secretary

    M E M O R A N D U M

    DATE: July 27, 2007
    TO: Dave Vriezen, Section Chief
    FROM: Shirley Noltemeyer, Occupational Safety Inspector
    SUBJECT: Giant Swing (Serial Number 2126009)/Air Glory Accident Investigation and Inspection

    This accident investigation memorandum relates to the fatal accident of Elizabeth Mohl, aged 16, involving the Giant Swing ride (Serial Number 2126009), owned and operated by Air Glory, at the Lifest event held at the Winnebago County Fairgrounds, 500 E. County Trunk Y, Oshkosh, Wisconsin on July 14, 2007.

    Description of Ride and History

    The Giant Swing ride elevates one to three riders into the air, and when one of the riders pulls the release mechanism, the riders drop a short distance and then swing back and forth. The ride consists of a large crane anchored to a trailer with a cable extending down over a ramp. Operators secure the riders to harnesses, which are then attached to a metal ring on the cable. Each harness is attached to a manual locking carabineer (sometimes referred to as a “D-ring”) in the back. The ride operator clips the carabineer to a metal ring on the cable suspended from the crane and manually screws the carabineer to its locked position. A secondary safety rope goes through the riders’ harnesses and is attached, using manual locking carabineers to the metal ring. The release mechanism (ripcord) is a small clasp that is attached to the metal ring. The riders are attached to a metal block, which hoists them to the top of the ride. A separate cable pulls the riders back toward the crane, and once in position, the operator tells the riders when it is okay to pull the release mechanism. When
    the rider pulls the release mechanism, the riders drop a short distance before swinging back and forth.

    The ride was first registered in Wisconsin in 2003. An inspection was conducted in August 2003 and corrective orders issued. In August 2004, Commerce re-inspected the ride, found that the orders had been complied with, and approved the ride for operation. The ride was registered in 2005. This ride was not registered in 2006, and therefore was not in the State of Wisconsin and not available for or subject to inspection. The ride was registered in 2007. Lifest was its first scheduled event. It was scheduled for an inspection on Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at its second and final event in Twin Lakes.

    Incident Investigation

    At approximately 5:45 p.m. on Saturday, July 14, 2007, Gary Ross, the owner of Air Glory called me and stated that a customer had fallen from his ride late that afternoon. He said he knew he had to inform us as he figured we would want to send someone up to Oshkosh, where the accident occurred. I told him I would check with my supervisor and call him back. I called Dave Vriezen on his cell phone, but the voicemail snapped on immediately. I then called Randy Baldwin, Bureau Director. Randy said he would check to see who was available. I then called Mr. Ross back to let him know someone would be up to conduct an investigation of the accident on Sunday. Mr. Ross then gave the phone to Sergeant Dennis Waddington of the Oshkosh Police Department. I asked Sergeant Waddington about the condition of the victim. He told me we were probably looking at a fatality. After again talking with Randy Baldwin, it was decided that I would go up to Oshkosh on Sunday. I then called Gary Ross and Sergeant Waddington to tell them that I would be there at about 10:00 a.m. on Sunday morning. Sergeant Waddington informed me that the ride had been shut down immediately after the accident and would be available for inspection Sunday.

    I arrived at the Winnebago County Fairgrounds (Expo Center) on Sunday at about 9:30 a.m. JD Smith of JD Smith Security picked me up on a golf cart and took me to the scene of the accident. When I arrived at the scene, Sergeant Waddington and Detective Dean Artus were there waiting for me. Oshkosh Detective Artus gave me a copy of all the witness statements available at that time. The Oshkosh Police had also told Mr. Ross that I would be there around 10:00 a.m. on Sunday morning. Mr. Ross did not arrive until approximately 11:45 a.m. Mr. Ross stated how sorry he was for everything that had happened.

    Mr. Ross laid out the harness that the victim had been wearing. When the victim was removed from the harness, the harness was cut at the shoulders and at the bottom. Mr. Ross had his son, Orion Ross, put a harness on, and we proceeded to the ride so he could show us what had happened. Mr. Ross showed us how the harness is put on the rider and how the rider is connected to the ride with a manual locking carabineer. He then showed us how the safety rope is to be attached. He stated that if the carabineer is locked and if the safety rope is correctly attached, there is no way a person could come unhooked. He also showed how the ripcord is attached. He said it could be possible that when the person pulls the ripcord, the ripcord could conceivably push open the carabineer if the carabineer had not been properly locked. The Oshkosh police had the carabineer in their custody. I inspected the carabineer and determined that it was in good condition and working properly. When in the locked position, the carabineer would not open.

    Mr. Ross said his first knowledge of the accident came when his son came over to him and said that someone had fallen and he thought they should call the ambulance. Mr. Ross said he thought his son meant someone who was watching the operation had fallen. Mr. Ross said that after he had harnessed up the victim and another rider, he came off the platform, over to the tarp, which was about 10-15 feet away from the platform, and was proceeding to harness the next riders when his son informed him of the accident.

    According to Mr. Ross, on Saturday, July 14, 2007, he and Derek Armelin were working on the platform harnessing in the riders on the giant swing at the time of the accident. Mr. Armelin was working on the right side of the platform, and Mr. Ross was working on the left side. Mr. Ross said that Mr. Armelin was a new employee having worked for Mr. Ross only about two weeks. Mr. Ross also said Mr. Armelin also had a tendency not to lock the
    carabineer after attaching the rider to the ride. Mr. Ross said he always worked on the left side when working with Mr. Armelin so that he (Mr. Ross) could check the carabineer before attaching the safety rope. Mr. Ross stated if the carabineer was locked, there would be no way it could come loose when a person was attached to it. Mr. Ross also said that if the carabineer was locked and if the safety rope was properly attached it would not be possible for anyone to come loose from the ride. This is consistent with the statements that Mr. Ross provided to the Oshkosh Police and with Commerce’s independent investigation.

    During my initial inspection on July 15, 2007, I asked to see daily inspection, maintenance and training records. Daily inspection records, which are required, were not available. The maintenance log, which is required, was available; however, the entries were not done on a daily basis. This log did contain an entry for July 3, 2007 that Mr. Gary Ross believed that Derek Armelin was sufficiently trained to operate the ride. Training records, which typically required by ride manufacturers but not explicitly required by Wisconsin Law, were not
    available.

    I checked with Randy Baldwin, and he said I should issue a red tag on the ride. It was also decided that we would like the Oshkosh Police to impound the ride until we had the opportunity to do a full inspection. A red tag was placed on the ride on Sunday, July 15, 2007, preventing further operation of the ride until approved by the Safety & Buildings Division of the Wisconsin Department of Commerce.

    On Tuesday, July 17, 2007, a thorough inspection was done of the ride by Terry Clark, Tim Condon, Scott Amacher and myself.

    After our inspections and review, we find that the structure or condition of the ride did not contribute to the accident. The harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring that attached the victim to the ride were all in safe operating condition and operating as designed. Although a substantial number of violations were found and orders for correction issued as a result of the inspections, the code violations and orders issued do not relate to the condition of the attachment points between the rider and the ride and thus could not have contributed to the incident.

    On July 17, 2007, I hand delivered to Mr. Ross a copy of my Safety Inspection Report and Orders (the Red Tag orders) and a letter from Dave Vriezen prohibiting operation Air Glory from operating this ride and other similar rides in Wisconsin. Because the ride is red-tagged, the ride can not operate in Wisconsin until inspected and approved by the Department. The 2007 Registration was revoked, and the registration sticker confiscated.

    Conclusion

    After a thorough inspection and review, Commerce inspectors find that the structure or condition of the ride did not contribute to the accident. The harness, carabineer, safety rope, wire cables and metal ring that attach the ride to the rider were all in safe operating condition. The code violations and orders issued do not relate to the condition of the attachment points between the ride and the rider. Our finding that the structure and condition of the ride did not contribute to the cause of the accident is consistent with the witness statements and Oshkosh Police incident reports.

  • Badger Bugler

    SAFETY INSPECTION REPORT AND ORDERS
    Safety and Buildings Division
    2715 Post Road.
    Stevens Point, WI 54481
    (715) 345-5342, (715) 571-1605

    To Attention Of: Gary Ross, Owner
    Title: Owner
    AIR GLORY INC
    811 MARY MEADOWS LANE
    ST LOUIS MO 63141
    Customer ID: 960854

    Deputy Name: Terrence W Clark , Safety Insp.

    Device Inspected: Giant Swing, Serial No.: 2126009699
    Located At (number and Street address): 640 W 3rd Street
    City: Oshkosh
    County: Winnebago

    Inspection Date: 07/17/2007
    Transaction ID: 1418139
    Reg Object ID: 950967
    Corrected and amended: July 26, 2007

    Violations Explained To: Gary Ross

    Compliance Date: 07/27/07
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    [BLOG NOTE: EACH LINE ITEM IS A VIOLATION AS DETERMINED BY INVESTIGATORS. ITEM 3 DEMONSTRATES THAT THE RIDE WAS NOT AUTHORIZED TO OPERATE ON SITE AT ALL, AND THAT LIFEST WAS OBLIGATED TO KNOW AND KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS, AND THUS, SHOULD AND COULD HAVE PREVENTED THE DEATH OF ELIZABETH MOHL! IF ALLOWING A RIDE to operate at all when the very first thing LIFEST was required to do was not done shows, as I see it, fundamental and irrefutable evidence of an extremely high degree of recklessness and negligence! This is not a question of whether they could and did monitor it along the way, but whether they did their mandatory legal duty from the outset. The later incidents only goes to serve as added evidence to show a heinous pattern of willful misconduct, recklessness, negligence and lying to the public since the death. Whether they lied to officials may never be known.]

    1. Comm 3.13 Stop Work and Stop Use Procedures. (1) REASONS FOR ISSUANCE. Pursuant to the statutory goals regarding the protection of public safety and health enumerated under chs. 101, 145 and 167, Stats., the division may, without advance written notice, issue an order to immediately cease any construction, installation, operation, or activity or the use of a building, building component, structure or mechanical device for any of the following reasons:

    (a) There is reasonable cause to believe that the construction, installation, activity, existing condition or method of operation creates an imminent danger to public safety or health as a result of a violation of a statute or administrative rule administered by the division.

    (b) The activity is being performed or conducted by an individual who does not hold the appropriate license, certification or registration as required by statute or administrative rule administered by the division.

    (c) The construction, installation, activity or operation has not been approved or been issued the appropriate permit as required by statute or administrative rule administered by the division.

    Condition Found: Potential life hazards.

    Action Required: A full ride inspection will be conducted with all violations corrected prior to further use. NOTE: The Red Tag shall not be removed unless authorized by the inspector. Any person or firm operating this system prior to authorized release is subject to additional penalties.

    Note: Inspection date reads July 5, 2007.

    The actual inspection date was July 15, 2007.
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    Page: 5

    Item ORDER REQUIREMENTS ? Done X Not Done
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    1. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.15 Periodic inspections and operational tests. (1) GENERAL. The owner shall arrange for all amusement rides to be subjected to periodic inspections and operational tests as specified in this section. Such inspections and tests shall be documented by written records and the records shall be kept as specified in s. Comm 34.18.

    Condition Found: Documentation of wire rope inspections was not available nor provided.

    Resolution: Provide documentation or wire rope inspection.
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    2. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.27 Identification. (3) PASSENGER-CARRYING DEVICE

    IDENTIFICATION. Each passenger-carrying device on an amusement ride or attraction shall be identified by a permanent number or manufacturer’s decal, at least one inch in height and located in a conspicuous place. Permanent ink markers are not acceptable.

    Condition Found: The passenger carrying devices were not properly numbered.

    Resolution: Properly number the passenger-carrying devices (harnesses).
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    3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

    Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

    Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.
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    4. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 525.31 Equipment Grounding. All equipment requiring grounding shall be grounded by an equipment grounding conductor of a type and size recognized by Section 250.118 and installed in accordance with article 250. The equipment grounding conductor shall be bonded to the system grounded conductor at the service disconnecting means or, in the case of a separately derived system such as a generator, at the generator or first disconnecting means supplied by the generator. The grounded circuit conductor shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor on the load side of the service disconnecting means or on the load side of a separately derived system disconnecting means.

    Condition Found: The generator was found to be improperly grounded.

    Resolution: The generator shall be properly grounded.
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    5. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.16(2) TEST PERIOD. (a) Class 1 and 2. When required in accordance
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    Page 2

    with recognized safe practice, nondestructive tests of all class 1 and class 2 amusement rides shall be performed every 3 years or 3,000 hours of operation, whichever comes first, or at testing intervals required by the manufacturer. The time interval shall be based upon the date of the previous test report.

    Condition Found: The ride was found to not have had the required NDT testing.

    Resolution: Provide documentation of, or perform a non-destructive test, such as but not limited to magnetic particle, x-ray, dye penetrant or ultrasonic, on the frame of the ride.
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    6. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.24(3)(d) (d) Guardrails shall be designed and constructed with a rigid intermediate barrier, or equivalent, capable of withstanding a minimum load of 100 pounds applied downward or horizontally.

    Note: These are minimum standards for protecting average size adults. Guardrails should be constructed to discourage small children from climbing or swinging on, or passing through them.

    Condition Found: The ride was found to have platform handrails without a midrail.

    Resolution: The ride shall have proper midrails installed on the platform.
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    7. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 525.20 Wiring Methods. (H) Boxes and

    Fittings. A box or fitting shall be installed at each connection point, outlet, switchpoint, or junction box.

    Condition Found: On the turntable drive motor and electrical box has been broken off, exposing electrical wires.

    Resolution: The electrical boxes shall be properly replaced or shall be removed along with the associated wiring.
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    8. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 525.20(D) Splices. Flexible cords or cables shall be continuous without splice or tap between boxes or fittings.

    Condition Found: The main wire emanating from the main electrical control box was found to be spliced.

    Resolution: Spliced flexible cords shall be removed and replaced.
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    9. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.27(A) Live parts guarded against accidental contact. Except as elsewhere required or permitted by this code live parts of electrical equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved enclosures.

    Condition Found: Inside the main electrical panel a pillow and other non-electrical materials were found stored there.

    Resolution: The non-electrical materials shall be removed from the box and access shall be denied to unqualified persons.
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    10. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.

    (A) Unused Openings. Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters, cabinets, cutout boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment.

    Condition Found: The electrical panel box was found to have open holes in it.

    Resolution: The unused openings in the electrical box shall be properly closed.
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    11. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 400.10 Pull at Joints and Terminals. Flexible cords shall be so connected to devices and to fittings that tension will not be transmitted to joints or terminals.

    Condition Found: Various wires throughout the ride were found to be pulled from their respective cord grips.

    Resolution: The wires shall have the strain relief properly repaired.
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    Page 3 7/18/2007

    12. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.27(C) Warning signs. Entrances to rooms and other guarded locations that contain exposed live parts shall be marked with conspicuous warning signs forbidding unqualified personnel to enter.

    Condition Found: The main electrical panel is lacking a sign forbidding entry.

    Resolution: The electrical panels shall have signs placed on them forbidding entry to unqualified personnel.
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    13. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32 Comm 16.12 NEC 525.20 Wiring Methods. A. Type. Where flexible cord or cables are used, they shall be listed for extra-hard usage. Where flexible cords or cables are used and are not subject to physical damage, they shall be permitted to be listed for hard usage. Where used outdoors, flexible cords and cables shall also be listed for wet locations and be sunlight resistant. Extra-hard usage flexible cords and cables shall be permitted for use as permanent wiring on portable amusement rides and attractions where not subject to physical damage.

    Condition Found: The ride was found to have construction lighting strings in use.

    Resolution: The ride shall have the improper wiring and lights removed.
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    14. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF

    DEFECTS. (a) Defective, improper, worn or missing parts shall be replaced or repaired.

    Condition Found: The main gear box for the hoisting mechanisms is leaking gear lubrication.

    Resolution: The gearbox shall be properly repaired to prevent further leakage.
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    15. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF

    DEFECTS. (f) Wire rope shall be serviceable and free of sharp ends. Wire rope shall be replaced under any of the following conditions:
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    5. Burning, kinking, knotting, crushing or other damage which changes the structure of the rope occurs.

    Condition Found: The main hoisting wire rope is found to be bird caged.

    Resolution: The wire rope shall be properly replaced.
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    16. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (1)GENERAL. (a)

    Amusement rides, attractions and structures shall be maintained, repaired and modified in accordance with recognized safe practice.

    Condition Found: The emergency stop switch was found to be broken.

    Resolution: The emergency stop switch shall be replaced.
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    17. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.31(4) AUTOMATIC RESTART PROHIBITED. All amusement rides with passenger–carrying devices shall be equipped and maintained with devices to prevent automatic restart after power failure, including, but not limited to, magnetic starters, magnetic switches and pneumatic clutches.

    Condition Found: The ride was found to be without proper restart devices.

    Resolution: The proper restart devices shall be provided.
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    18. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.22 Passenger–carrying devices. (1) GENERAL. All passenger–carrying devices shall be designed, assembled, operated and maintained in accordance with recognized safe practices.

    Condition Found: The ride was found to be operating without an anti two block to prevent over retraction of wire ropes.

    Resolution: Similar rides in the State of Wisconsin operate with an anti-two block. This ride shall be fitted with a proper anti-two block.
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    .
    .
    19. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.32(1)(a) Comm 16.12 NEC 110.13(a) Mounting. Electrical equipment shall be firmly secured to the surface on which it is mounted.
    .
    .
    .
    Page 4 7/18/2007

    Condition Found: Inside the main electrical panel a transformer was found to be attached by a piece of rope.

    Resolution: The transformer does not belong in the electrical panel. The transformer shall be removed and properly relocated if needed.
    .
    .
    .
    20. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.37 Cleanliness. (1) REFUSE CONTAINERS. Refuse containers shall be provided in and around all amusement rides. Accumulations of trash or refuse shall be removed within 24 hours.

    Condition Found: The ride has unused and damaged wire rope hanging from it.

    Resolution: The unused and damaged wire rope shall be removed from the ride.
    .
    .
    .
    21. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF DEFECTS. (a) Defective, improper, worn or missing parts shall be replaced or repaired.

    Condition Found: All the sheaves for the wire haul rope show excessive wear and are not properly aligned.

    Resolution: The sheaves and their bushings shall be inspected and either repaired or replaced as needed.
    .
    .
    .
    22. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.38 Maintenance, repair and modification. (2) CORRECTION OF

    DEFECTS. (h) All required safety pins and wedges shall be installed and they shall be secured with “R” keys, lynch pins, diaper pins or other devices in accordance with recognized safe practice.

    Condition Found: The axle for the wire rope sheaves is missing a proper cotter key to hold it in place.

    Resolution: The cotter key shall be replaced.
    .
    .
    .
    23. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.18 Record keeping. (1) OWNER RESPONSIBILITY. Records related to amusement ride safety shall be kept and retained by the amusement ride owner and shall be made available to the department upon request.

    (2) REQUIRED RECORDS. Records shall be kept of the following:

    (a) Inspections at time of assembly as specified in s. Comm 34.15 (2);

    (b) Daily inspections and operational tests as specified in s. Comm 34.15 (3);

    (c) Nondestructive tests as specified in s. Comm 34.16;

    (e) The hours of operation since the last nondestructive test.

    Note: The hours of operation should be recorded after each use to maintain a current running total from the last nondestructive test.

    (3) ACCURACY OF RECORDS. An authorized person shall sign the records to attest to their accuracy.

    (4) RETENTION OF RECORDS. (a) Records for at least the 30 previous days of operation as specified in sub.

    (2) (a) and (b) and the most recent nondestructive tests as specified in s. Comm 34.16 shall be kept with the amusement ride.

    (b) All records shall be kept at least 7 years.

    Condition Found: There are no maintenance and inspection records available for review.

    Resolution: The records shall be properly kept and available for review.
    .
    .
    .
    24. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.18 Record keeping. (1) OWNER RESPONSIBILITY. Records related to amusement ride safety shall be kept and retained by the amusement ride owner and shall be made available to the department upon request.

    (2) REQUIRED RECORDS. Records shall be kept of the following:

    (b) Daily inspections and operational tests as specified in s. Comm 34.15 (3);

    Condition Found: There are no inspection records for the harnesses available for review.

    Resolution: The records shall be properly kept and available for review.

    Page 5 7/18/2007
    .
    .
    .
    25. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.22 Passenger–carrying devices. (1) GENERAL. All passenger–carrying devices shall be designed, assembled, operated and maintained in accordance with recognized safe practices.

    Condition Found: This ride was operated using a single carabiner to connect each rider’s harness to the ride.

    Resolution: Similar rides operating in Wisconsin utilize 2 carabiners to attach harnesses to the ride. This ride’s harnesses shall be attached to the ride with a minimum of 2 carabiners.

  • Badger Bugler

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

  • andy

    What is your point Badger?

  • Badger Bugler

    What is (or isn’t) your point And-y-doesn’t-have-a-clue?

  • Badger Bugler

    3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

    Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

    Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.

    AND-Y-DOESN’T-SEEM-TO-REALIZE this means that AIR GLORY had no right to operate and that LIFEST — Bob Lenz, Mitch Lautenslager, Tom Magnin, Stan Alt, Ted, (JD Smith Security?), Romenseko, Wes Halula and many others, including its entire Board of Directors, Risk Manager and Security Directors — had an absolute legal obligation to make sure it did not operate throughout all of LIFEST!

    NOT FOR ONE MINUTE!

    Get the point, Andy?

    The sword of truth is sharp and sure!

    “You shall know The Truth and The Truth shall set you free!”

  • anonymous

    So the young girl died because a sticker was missing.

    Do you realize how crazy you sound? After all your obnoxious allegations the only argument you can up with is about a measly sticker?

    You really are off the deep end. Funny how your name NEVER shows up in the report. Go find another minsitry to try and take down. This is your second attempt and I don’t think it’s going to work.

    The media has forgotten you.

    I wonder how proud of you your daughters would be, I know I would be cursing if you were my father. You are an embarassment.

  • Richard Wade

    Trollin’

  • andy

    Badger, I am still not getting your point. What is it?

  • anonymous

    Andy–I think the point was lost long ago.

  • Badger Bugler

    No, she did not die because a sticker was missing. She died because an seemingly incompetent and unqaulified owner with unqualified and inattentive employees running ride that required the sticker to operate, whch must be checked by sponsors by LIFEST before they can operate was allowed by LIFEST to operate in spite of the fact that they were not legally allowed to operate without the sticker.

    And as for the media that has forgotten this, you’ve apparently missed http://www.WLUK.com, http://www.WGBA.com, http://www.ChristianPost.com and http://www.WRN.com!

    Your problem is the same as Wes Halula’s! You want to make it about everyone and enerything but Elizabeth Mohl and LIFEST’s proven negligence, recklessness and arrogance.

    The day the media forgets about me will be the best day of my life, not because I, like you and Wessy, have anything to hide from, but because that will likely be the day that they are focusing on Wes and his band of prevaricators and apostates! That won’t be a good day for Wes, though! See what he has to say about a divorce and another corrupt ministry being exposed then!

    Given the arrogance of your latest attack, I can only say: “Hey, Wes, come out from behind the avatar! And “Get thee behind me, Satan!”

    You are the embarrasment — to yourself, your family, your friends, the true faithful, the body (it’s not clear whether you consider yourself among the body of believers or unbelievers, but I know what you are) and all of humanity. I am sure God in heaven is crying over you, and far less over me! After all, He is the one Who first said…

    “…PEARLS AFTER SWINE!”

    “Oink, oink!” is the only translation one can offer to the tripe you spew forth!

  • andy

    I know, I was wondering if he knew

  • Badger Bugler

    You oughta remain anonymous, anonymous, Andy and everyone else wo did not and still does not want to listen, hear, read, see, think or reason, given the bonehead things some of you are saying.

    After all, would you really want your pastors and friends and neighbors to know what practical and biblical boneheds you are…

    “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s…” like the obligation to obey the law in sponsoring the event, have a risk management specialist and security and safety people in place, then make sure they “render unto” by doing what the law requires them to do, like not allowing the Air Glory operator to run the ride without the state required LICENSE/CERTIFICATE STICKER in place, which the state said was a violation (not me)!

    I’ll just thank God you, your friends and family were spared the horror that others did not escape due to the misconduct, recklessness and negligence of others.

    “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, MIND and strength, and love your neighbors as you love yourself!”

    If LIFEST leaders loved their brothers and sisters and neighbors as they loved themselves, and you with them, they would have loved them, and the Lord, enough to follow His commands and look out for the welfare of others and be their “brother’s keeper” and “render unto Caesar that which is Caesar and unto God that which is God’s” — to follow the law requiring the ride to not run without the certificate (saving everyone the life risking rides and Elizabeth her life)! All honored, all obeyed, all served, all safe, all glory and praise to God, not Bob Lenz and the so-called “Christian minsitry” called Life Promotions and LIFEST. What you fail to realize is that God can work in spite of all of that and not necessarily because of it/them (and/or me)!

    The reason the point was lost on you so long ago is that God cannot sharpen the sword of His truth on the hards head of men and women who will not allow themselves to be sharpened as iron sharpens iron, and the sword of truth and the Word should sharpen you. Your hardness of heart and dullness of mind are the obstacles here and you have dulled the tip of the point!

    Get the point?

    That’s why you don’t get the point!

    You are pointless!

    Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything!

    How’s that LIFEST Kool Aid taste, Andy? Wes mixes up a mean batch! Feeling woooo…oooo…oo.z..eee.ee.eeeee, yet?

    Now that I think of it, the tip of the point may not be dull or broken, but just rusting away in the barrell of Kool Aid you all seem to be gathered around!

    The watchman and trumpeter has spoken, plug your ears and holler back at your own peril!

    Ezekiel 33 is still part of God’s Word!

    And the walls of Jericho still fell down, even if the horns were sharp or flat, the spit valves were full, the dust was flying and the hollers from below were unsettling. THE INCONVENIENT TRUTH of it all was that people just like you were sitting in their homes inside the walls as the warnings were sounded and smugly complaining that they didn’t like the messengers. But the walls still came tumbling down, and great was the fall of them!

    Watch out, whiners, the walls are coming down all around you! You are just too deaf and blinded by your own screams of protest to hear or heed the warnings!

    Just as LIFEST leaders did for many days before and including and since LIFEST 2007! And far too great and far too sad was the fall! And now you justify their stupidy and recklessness with arrogance!

    Pathetic!

    “You shall know The Truth and” He shall be like “pearls after swine!”

    And that’s the point!

    “Oink! Oink! Oink!” go the bloggers…

  • Badger Bugler

    “…and I don’t think…”

    That’s the operative phrase in your whole bunch of blathering!

    This isn’t about “taking down” ministries, but speaking AN INCONVENIENT TRUTH about this one, just like all those liberals like to speak about conservatives!

    The truth just sucks for you right now, is all! (Is that you, Wes? The sound of “cease and desist” are sort of ringing in the background!)

    Given what they do in identifying wrong doing in people every day, you must really hate cops, too! (Christian or otherwise!) And journalists, who even in the The Valley sem to like to “afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted” according to the WGBA news team site!

    Haven’t heard you rail on Steve Young and his sister and grandfather, Ralph Young, of Kaukauna, who also said the ride wasn’t working right (right there on WLUK)! Even they said they wished they’d said something to LIFEST, police and others! But to what end, do you suppose? (Have you or Wes and LIFEST investigated their backgrounds. That speeding ticket Mr. Young got seems to suggest he shouldn’t be trusted — lawbreaker!)

    Then again, the missing sticker IS, in a sense, what caused it all! It is/was proof of a negligent and reskless and inattentive operator not authorized to operate on that site at that time … operating illegally and allowed to do so by LIFEST, which either failed to check for the required sticker (which is the license to operate) or noticed it wasn’t there and allwoed them to operate anyway!

    So, we and they report, you decide!

    Boy, and what that must say about your views on God Himself!

    Must hate your pastor for pointing out sins, too, eh? Or does yours refuse to read all that stuff that doesn’t just say how wonderful you are…?

    Are you a carny? Or LIFEST staff? Board member? “Pastor” Jeff McGregor? “Pastor” Jeff Prewill?

    What’s that in the background? Did I hear “cease and desist” again…?

  • Badger Bugler

    Here’s how forgotten this story is:

    http://www.wrn.com/gestalt/go.cfm?objectid=099235A7-94E1-6951-327FAED2EA5E869B

    Dated Saturday, July 28, 2007 at 12:01 AM for carriage statewide tomorrow!

    I’m still trying to find anything relevant you’ve said publicly! What’s your name again? (Wes…?)

  • anonymous

    Do you honestly think “God” has called you forth to bring down Life with the “truth”. Do you think you are a prophet. And have you not forgotten it is soooo against biblical principal to place blame among others. The death of the young girl is a tragedy and nothing short of that. But thats all it is Kris, a sad sad tragedy. It is not among us to place blame on any one person. For if everytime a human being died and blame was sought out we would all in our ways be murderers. We are human beings, of the flesh. Accidents, mistakes and painful things happen. A young women gets in a car during a snowstorm and loses control only to lose her life. Do we seek out blame, pointing fingers everywhich way? Do we tear apart the car manufacturer because something should have been done to protect a human from dying while operating their vehicle? No one here is a criminal. Everyone did their jobs to the best of their abilities and unfortunately circumstance came in to play and a life was lost. Be Thankful for the life this young lady had and pray for her safe journey home, if that is what you chose to believe in. But the rest is put to rest. If this was someone you had loved you would not want some strange individual using their death as a platform for hateful accusations.

  • Maria

    this thread is really beginning to scare me…….

  • Badger Bugler

    You are oh so self-right, anonymous…

    Disband the police, the courts and disbar all lawyers…

    You confuse blame for accountability and responsibility! You advocate utter anarchy and lack of responsibility.

    Are you Jeff McGregor, Jeff Prewitt, Wes Halula, Bob Lenz…?

    Who are you? Oo oo, oo oo! (CSI is coming for you excuse makers!)

    And if you are right in your theory of life and unbiblical claims about the meaning of life and God’s Word, why have you not written these same things about the DA’s and OPD’s and DOC’s investigations? (With that theology, explain that whole Ezekiel 33 thing and those odd little passages by a guy named Jesus blaming certain people for not doing certain things and being told, “Depart from me!” Sort of a little blame and accountability game He’s playing there, don’t you think?! Or is that one of those INCONVENIENT TRUTHS of JESUS passages you removed from your Bible? Even Thomas Jefferson believed those words (part of his “red letter” only version of the Bible — and “Old Red” was in charge of mandating the use of Bibles in public schools after the republic (not a democracy, but a republic) was founded — another of those INCONVENIENT TRUTHS you probably have a hard time with! (You are so against law and order of any type you have to be from Madison! Are you a UW professor of untruth!)

    Or am I just presuming again? (I sure I am — but not upon the grace and mercy of God, as you do!)

    “Woe to you scribes and hypocrites! You heal the wounds of my people ‘Peace! Peace!’ where there is no peace!”

    Aha! Eureka! You are LIFEST’S “risk manager” or “security director,” who either did not do their duty and inspect the rides for the required license stickers that allowed them to plug in and power up or you did notice it missing and decided to “let ‘er go” anyway! (Or are you the husband or wife or ashamed child of those people?)

    You did criticize them? Those investigators?

    Oh, then please point me to tht blog so I can go read it then return here to publicly apologize, (Wes, Bob, Stan, Tom, JD, Mitch, Val, Tammy, Bob, Crol, Ted, Alice…? Risk manager? Security Director? “Ministry Board of Directors”? Robert, Phil, O.J.?!)!

  • Badger Bugler

    And once again you presume…

    You wrote “bring down Life”…

    Well, if telling the truth does that, then that is what it is!

    God commands all of us to tell the truth! Whatever the consequences! Something about that bearing false witness thing that still sort of sticks in your craw, there, doesn’t it?

    Was that you kneeling beside that golden calf when Moses came down and broke the first set of tablets? What did you not get about that false idols and false witness part that caused such anger in the stuttering prince of Egypt that got him angry enough to thrown them down and break them into pieces?

    Maybe you should quit reading blogs and start reading your Bible!

    I think I know who you are! I can hear your Edward G, Robinson voice taunting out, “So, Mozhush! Say, Mozhush…”

    As for that prophet quip, you’ll have to figure that one out on your own. After all, “It is you who say that I am!”

  • Badger Bugler

    P.S. Yes, anonymous, “circumstances came into play”!

    And this is for sure, without the license to operate the “circumstance” called Air Glory had no right to come “into play” at LIFEST.

    So grow up, wake up, open up your eyes, read the Bible, read “Caesar’s” law and get your head out of the “weak and shifting sands” of ridiculous excuse making!

    I can’t imagine where you stand on the Inquisition, Civil War, WWI, WWII, Afghanistan (Russia and US), Iraq, Irag and Korea, let alone the Exodus, Jericho and the crucifixion of Christ! A lot of circumstances have come “into play” throughout history, and all I hear you saying is “Shut up and be silent! Hitler is not bad, he just came into play! Satan inthe garden ws not bad; he just came into play!”

    And the operator admitted that he made errors, that his employee repeatedly made serious dangerous mistakes that he knew about, and had 25 VIOLATIONS, INCLUDING MISSING and mandated fail safes, like emergency shut off switches, second D ring carabiners and much more. This wasn’t “circumstances [that] came into play,” but a pattern of known recklessness and violations of the law! 25 VIOLATIONS of THE LAW, to be exact!

    So, go tell your tripe to someone who cares — if you can find time to break away from the vat of Kool Aid you’re mixing and trying to sell here! Or try to preach that crap to your church this Sunday! Or at the church of families of the victims of the injuries and death!

    Get thee behind me, SaTAN!

  • Badger Bugler

    QUOTE: “Be Thankful for the life this young lady had and pray for her safe journey home, if that is what you chose to believe in.”

    I am and have conversations with those who do celebrate her! But I grieve the life lost through the reckless and careless, willful and negligent behavior of others. It is not a “journey” to those who believe, nor is she in any sort of “purgatory” (as some might like to believe), “For truly, I say to you, you shall be with me this day in paradise!”

    Also, in response to your most ridiculous and childish of “analogies,” Elizabeteh Mohl was not a girl who got in a car well manufactured and well maintained by its owner and just had an accident. You are too blind to get the facts here!

    Have you read anything — whether the above posts or the actual Commerce Department report? Do you care about anything other than YOUR OWN self intertests? (I have nothing to gain here but personal abuse! What do you have to gain, long-teim LIFEST volunteer and/or staff memebr and/or board member and/or supporter?)

    She got on an unlicensed and improperly maintained ride negligently and recklessly and illegally maintained by an inattentive operator and owner (their confession to investigators) and lost her life because of them! Not an innocent accident that could not have been forseen or avoided, but one that was forseen, spoken of to LIFEST, required of them to monitor by law, and resulted in her death! DEAL WITH THAT, OSTRICH!

    I have two Christian men I know who were put into jail for “circumstances [they just] came into”, each in the most vile of ways and most criminal and immoral. They both accept that they needed to be held accountable under the law — the laws of God and man! And they will bear the mark of shame in every way for the rest of their lives. They make no excuses, so why do you make excuses? Where do you get the right to forgive all things, including the civil authority of men granted by God Himself to hold others accountable for all such things? He does not say they must be “crimes,” but demands that all men even compensate each other in accountability for those injured in person and property, and to face other civil punishments laid out by the civil authorities. So, my friend in naivete, your problem is not with me, but with the civil authroities and God Himself! Your anger and arrogance are misdirected. Pick your fight with God and His Word! And see what that word count is and whetehr you’ll win that argument!

    QUOTE: “But the rest is put to rest.”

    Time will tell, now won’t it!

    QUOTE: “If this was someone you had loved you would not want some strange individual using their death as a platform for hateful accusations.”

    These are not hateful accusations, but the truth, which you apparently deplore with every fiber of your being! It might be hurtful to those responsible, as the truth is often like a knife, sent in to excise evil to save the good to go on and do good works!

    As for what the family might think, are you part of her family?

    Have you been authorized to speak for them?

    Are you speaking for them?

    Have you heard them speak out against me?

    I am not speaking for Elizabeth or for her family! I am speaking what I know to be the truth for myself at the direction of God as spoken in His word!

    I will leave the family to say what they will when they choose to say it!

    Will you be ready for what they might say?

    I will!

    And God will!

    And while you wish me to be silent with the truth, HE IS NOT SILENT!

    Just listen…

    …for once!

    And always!

    Forever!

    That you might know The Truth and The Truth would set you free!

    Perhaps, then, you might meet Elizabeth in heaven and tell her that you defended her honor and memory and justice for all!

    Perhaps before that you might have a chance to do that with her family!

  • Badger Bugler

    Hey, I checked on some anagrams myself

    WES HALULA

    Who’s liable, Wes? AHA … WELL, US!
    Who’s gonna be in the room? ALLAH, WE, US
    What is your prayer? HEAL US, LAW!
    What do you prophecy? WAH…ALL SUE!
    What did you mean on TV? ALL WAS HUE!
    What were you trying to put up there? WALL AS HUE!
    What did people understand from it? ALL SAW HUE!
    What do you see in your future? SAUL, AWL, HE!
    Anything else? HE, SAUL, LAW!
    And? WHALE SAUL
    What is your future, Wes? A WEAL LUSH

    ANOTHER FINE PRESENTATION of WES HALULA,
    COMEDY SPORTZ & THE HAPPY FUN TIME LOUNGE at LIFEST!

    Copyright 2007 – Happy Fun Time Miscreations, Inc.

  • tim

    what’s your point Kris?

  • Darryl

    Badger, you little dick, you need to go back on your meds; you’ve committed the unpardonable sin: you’ve wasted space on this blog.

  • Richard Wade

    In the morning you go typin’
    For the troll who stole your thread
    And you rant an’ rage an wipe ‘im
    Out and leave him there for dead
    But he comes back with another
    Just as crazy as before
    It don’t matter how you bother
    He’ll keep comin’ back for more

    You go back Jack post it again
    Wheel turnin’ ‘round and ‘round
    You go back Jack post it again

    And he’ll taunt you to re-enter
    As your comebacks turn to cruel
    Just as long as he’s the center
    Then he’s made you be his fool
    And you learn to stab and spike him
    And forget he is your brother
    In the end you’ll be just like him
    Can’t tell one troll from another

    You go back Jack post it again
    Wheel turnin’ ‘round and ‘round
    You go back Jack post it again

  • Sychose S.

    are you still:

    - spreading lies and misinformation by inuendo?

    - still raving with paranoid speculation?

    - still calling people names?

    hey, you almost have the cliche thing under control. (almost.) and by golly you’ve got the re-post thing down!

    help me out here, i need a little somethin’:

    3. Code Section Violated: Comm 34.04(6) POSTING OF CERTIFICATE. The registration certificate shall be posted on the amusement ride so that the certificate is visible to the public. The certificate shall not be altered or defaced.

    Condition Found: The amusement ride was found to be operating with no visible registration sticker.

    Resolution: The registration sticker shall be readily visible to the public as issued. It shall not be altered or defaced.

    could you do me a favor and point out something? where does “the state” require the lifest organizers to be experts in laws governing amusement rides, please? because i’m not seeing it here. or maybe you used the “invisible” font for that part (which my computer doesn’t display).

    hey, just had a thought. maybe YOU are “wes” and this is an elaborate smoke-screen. now wouldn’t that take the cake.

  • Badger Bugler

    I can’t explain your ignorance and this is not school!

    Go learn something for yourself!

    http://www.myfoxnewisconsin.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=79ABAD29EBC6131010BE77E09ADF7676?contentId=3806738&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

    You could look in the mirror and not see the nose on your face, for you “see through a glass darkly!”

    Also, what do you think about the Commerce Secretary’s promise that “rides are safe” as the lead in to a report on the death of a 16-year-old girl amid 25 serious safety violations? Have you written or posted to criicize anyone but me here? Sounds like you are the paranoid ones, believing one person could “take down” so great a work of God as LIFEST!

    And what about public reports by a Kaukauna family — Ralph and Steve Young — on WLUK that other riders experienced errors that prompted operators to lower them back to the ground and re-harness them? Have you called them up to harass them for daring to say such a thing? Don’t they sound like paranoid liars and speculators to you, too? What about Ralph’s speeding ticket? The lawbreaker! How can you trust him?

    And just will you do with the fact that Elizabeth’s parents are divorced? Will you find reason to say that contributed to something or is reason to disbelieve what others say LIFEST did wrong?

    You are the paranoid ones, seeing an anti-Christian and ministry-crushing zealot around every corner! If the DA ever files charges, will you call him a nut, too? Isn’t the inspector just a nut passing on rumor and innuendo? After all, like me, he was only on site and is reporting things he saw? Sounds like the Commerce Department has 25 complaints, when I only noted about a half dozen from that crazy Potts character!

    Hmmmm……

    A sick mean world, a sick cruel joke on you all. But forgive me, they weren’t lies, just a really bad Brown Bag Foul Worthy skit from your friends at the Fox Valley COMEDY SPORTZ! (Yes, I am Wes! I just got a conscience but just don’t want my pals at LIFEST to know! It would ruin my reputation and put me in disrepute around here!)

    ANOTHER FINE PRESENTATION of WES HALULA,
    COMEDY SPORTZ & THE HAPPY FUN TIME LOUNGE at LIFEST!

    Copyright 2007 – Happy Fun Time Miscreations, Inc.

  • Badger Bugler

    “In June 2006, Secretary Burke strengthened Commerce’s inspection program by adopting rules that allow Commerce inspectors to red-tag dangerous facilities, including amusement rides. Once red-tagged, it is illegal to operate the ride in Wisconsin. Prior to the adoption of red-tag authority, Commerce inspectors had to rely on the authority of other officials, such as local law enforcement, carnival management, or ride manufacturers, to shut down a dangerous ride. The red-tag issued against Air Glory’s Giant Swing ride is the third amusement ride case in which Commerce inspectors have needed to invoke their red-tag authority.”

    THERE’S YOUR ANSWER, paranoid conspiracy and crank Christian watchman nuts: “Commerce inspectors had to rely on the authority of other officials, such as local law enforcement, carnival management [LIFEST], or ride manufacturers, to shut down a dangerous ride.”

    LIFEST did it this way for eight years, so knew the rules well, and the red tag authority is complementary, not exclusionary, leaving LIFEST to not do its job!

    And what about this?

    “The ride was not registered in 2006. and therefore was not in the state of Wisconsin and not available for or subject to inspection.”

    Numerous people on site and in media reports said they rode it at LIFEST last year!

    NOW, THEY MUST BE LIARS! Conspiracists trying to “take down” LIFEST over their own lies! How dare they? How could it be?

    Hmmmm….

    Not my claim, but those of others! Go ask LIFEST and the Commerce Secretary and Gary Ross about that! Then get back to me with a formal report!

  • Badger Bugler

    Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”?

    What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

    After all, here is someone who openly criticized Michael W. Smith and, on Day Four, claims to have had something to do with AIR GLORY (the state inspector said it was not registered or in the state, so this person — “Writer: Lindsay Whitfield” — must be a lying LIFEST take downer and Kris Potts co-conspirator):

    Posted at:

    at http://www.soulshine.ca/features/lifest/lifest06_travelogue.php

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Lifest 2006 Travelogue

    Day One – Wednesday July 5

    After a most excellent stop in Chicago for a few days to check out the many sights and dive into deep dish pizza, we made the trek to OshKosh, Wisconsin, a state known for cheese and a town known for little kids overalls. We had no idea what to expect as we rolled up to Sunnyview Fairgrounds, but were met with warm smiles, blazing sun, and a decent sized camp site to pitch our tent, which would be our home for the next 5 days.

    People directed us to our poorly marked campsite and others exclaimed, “Ontario? You guys are a long way from home” or “Ontario? Wow, He’s bringing them in from all over!” So we had a good time being the only Canadians in our lot or perhaps some of the only attending the entire festival. Don’t worry, we made Canada proud and refused to say “about” or talk about the winter weather.

    Today was all about Newsboys for us Soul Shiners, people were still arriving and setting up camp and as they did we began our science experiment of “Does a Coleman’s 5 day cooler really keep ice cold for 5 days?” until Newsboys hit the stage. We had just seen Newsboys at Canada Christian College in Toronto a few months back and seem to never tire of their eclectic set of rock/pop songs. Phil, on lead guitar, impressed some of the girls around us, they inquired to us media folk, “How does he keep his long curly blond hair so shimmery and knot free?” I shrugged and thought, “Aussie Shampoo perhaps?” Phil definitely had more ‘roo to his do. Paul Colman ripped up the guitar with amazing melody and strong vocals as frontman Peter bounced around the stage getting the crowd jumping with their Cap N Crunch Cereal (making referencing to Newsboys lyrics, “They don’t serve breakfast in hell”). The day that had been humid swiftly turned to a chill as we hugged and greeted the Newsboys after their set before hitting the hay, literally.

    Day Two – Thursday July 6

    It’s funny at festivals how I never seem to keep track of days; they all just blend into each other like one long party, of course maybe that’s just the heat stroke talking. Thankfully we had an interesting seminar to attend at 10:30am to get us focused. I had heard about Pastor John Hartenberger doing a talk with an atheist and thought it would be interesting to hear what they both had to say. While this review is about the music, if any of you are interested in knowing more about God, getting answers to your questions and understanding His plan for your life, you can check out http://www.answersingenesis.org, http://www.christiananswers.net or send us an email to info@soulshine.ca and we’ll do our best to point you in the right direction.

    So, after a pretty intense seminar, we roamed around attempting to avoid the many golf carts flying through property and ended up at the BarlowGirl show. These three sisters are incredibly talented musicians, playing drums, lead guitar and guitar and keyboard while singing interchangeably, now that’s talent folks! The girls also stand strong in wanting to not only save sex for marriage, but not date as they see no point unless they know the guy is “the one”. That’s their choice to save dating, they say, but definitely saving sex for marriage was what they and Rebecca St. James were about between songs today. It was cool to see some girl power, women not concerned with focusing on broken hearts, but on having fun with friends and knowing their self worth doesn’t come from another person. Rock on Girls!

    Leeland are the best band kept secret right now, they have terrific lyrics and melodies and played in the place of Kevin Max who was a no-show on the mainstage after lunch. All of their songs rock out, so check some preview tracks out on http://www.myspace.com/leelandmusic. Leeland even invited his buddy Zach whose only 14 from the Loosen Chains organization to talk to us mid-set about how he’s signing petitions and working to abolish slavery abroad. Man, what was I doing at 14?

    Hawk Nelson were up next at the Edge stage, the guys spoke to us earlier before their performance, which we’ll be posting, and as you’ll see (much to his management’s chagrin) that we asked the lead singer Jason to jump over a spiky fence for a photo opt. Jason rocks hardcore and the entire band, who are Canadians at that, were extremely well versed, energetic, and left their fans in a blaze while on stage. MxPx came on later and totally blew me away as I had never seen them live before. They sound like a better version of Green Day and are so grunge and so good; Jason from Hawk Nelson even mentioned to us that opening for MxPx was the highlight of the festival for him.

    Michael W. Smith was also on the bill, we had seen him at Creation NorthEast in Pennsylvania last year and loved the vibe and song choices, but this time it felt a bit dry. He seemed to be hanging on to his huge catalogue of music and begging for applause rather than just being into the music and relating to his audience. Thankfully through some of his classics the audience started to get into the music and lighten up as the sky turned to stars above the stage. We were so wiped from the days events and the heat that we called it a night when TobyMac came on stage, we could hear people roaring with cheers through the fairgrounds and the next day found out tons of people were mushed around the smaller Edge stage jumping up and down and waving their Toby balloons to the beat all night long.

    Day Three – Friday July 7

    Well, the ice in our Coleman 5 day cooler began to melt a bit, but in Coleman’s defense, it was over 90 degrees Fahrenheit both in our car and in the tent so I’d say it keeps ice for 3 days max. over the said temperature, which isn’t bad! So we woke up, sleeping bag over our head from a cold night to the boiling “tropical” Wisconsin heat that suffocated us to the point of needing to jump out of bed for air. We added a bit of ice to the cooler and cooled down in the count ‘em 3 showers (for how many girls??) available on the property and got ready for the first seminar of the day. Bob Lenz, the festival founder and overall hilarious guy was our 10:30am slot so we rushed over and heard Bob talk about “Understanding the Why’s in Life”, I felt like I should have brought the atheist from yesterday’s talk to it, it totally fit with his line of questioning. Bob talked about his own family and uses cool and funny narratives to make his point, every high school should have him in to speak and lighten up a day of routine school work, http://www.lifepromotions.com.

    At the WorshipTogether.com New Song Café Martin and Stu from Delirious? were on hand with South African newcomer Brenton Brown and taught us how to play a bit of guitar and played some excellent worship music for the packed crowd. We then carried on to The Afters, whose song “Beautiful love” has been permanently etched in our memory, so good. The Texas based band Salvador made the journey to play for us in the Northern US as they never seem to make it up there or to Canada so it was a treat to hear their lively version of “How Far is Heaven” and marvel at the talent of both singing and the elaborate horn section that totally blew the crowd away. Delirious? performed next and are one of the best worship bands out there, period. Martin stopped between sets and read some really prophetic words from the Bible and then they all just continued partying on stage with the smoke and lights and gorgeous sunset that slowly fell in the background. Jars of Clay put on a great show, and the fireworks after their set brought the main stage events to fruition for the evening. Over at the Edge stage Sanctus Real ended a jam packed day with a late night set and played the ever popular “I’m not Alright” and “Face of Love” with enthusiasm and discussed their efforts with http://www.mochaclub.com, which I thought was great. Another satisfying night.

    Day Four – Saturday July 8

    We missed most of the Saturday seminars so we decided to head back to the WorshipTogether.com New Song Café tent where we found the mega talent of Leeland, Matt Maher, and Brenton Brown presiding. Leeland Mooring is one of the coolest 18 year old’s I’ve ever seen and he has this heart that just radiates love for God and making relevant, awesome music for everyone. David Crowder was the missing man during the festival, as he was scheduled to perform on the same stage that day, but had been caught in Ohio traffic. While writing this I just found out that David was on CNN talking about his new book, which I thought was most excellent and the fact that he’s the official Artist of the Month on MSN sounds like he’s a busy and in-demand guy, go David!

    Aside from the music and the eye opening seminars, there were also a plethora of activities for all ages to take part in. There was paint ball, rock climbing, bouncy castle, fireworks (which happened after Jars of Clay of course), basketball and dodgeball tournaments, a skate park, and our favourite one to watch aside from the killer dodgeball, Air Glory. They harness 2 people to a crane that takes you up, up and away and drop you swinging like a bird through the air for about a minute. The lines were long, so if you’re an event planner, all you need is a crane and harness, it’ll bring ‘em in droves!

    We had the absolute pleasure of talking with Bethany Dillon next, who some may be familiar with from her song on the Narnia soundtrack and in the new Dakota Fanning film Dreamer. I had heard her song “Hallelujah” last year at Creation NorthEast and thought there was such a preciousness to her lyrics and vocals, and her personality was no exception. She is by far a very human, humble, and I’ll say it again, she defines the word “precious” because she knows it’s all about Him. If you ever get the chance to meet her or see our Soul Shine interview with her (soon to come below!) you’ll know the vibe that I’m talking about, she makes you more important than herself, and that among record label execs, busy schedules and the whole Hollywood scene is a rare find my friends, it’s what focusing on Jesus has done for her. During her performance she showed no shame and wanted to be silly and do a little “rap I wrote on a barf bag while traveling”, that about sums up Bethany, a gal who’s not afraid to be silly and human.

    Mark Schultz played his narrative song “Letters from War” which has meant so much to the US troops away in Afghanistan and beyond, he even asked the people who had served in the military and Armed Forces to stand as we acknowledged them with our gratitude and applause, it was very moving, especially after the song. Superchic[k] had delighted me with their track “We Live” and had come to Canada Christian College a few times recently, but to see them live in a festival setting with their hot pink and jet black drums and speakers and see the variety of wardrobe and personalities jumping around on stage was well worth it. They’re a photographers dream and when they say they’re high energy, they mean it, definitely worth checking out when they come nearby. Kutless and Relient K came next as our ears were still ringing from Superchic[k] and the screams continued, especially for Matt T. when he broke into the Days of Thunder theme and his version of “Take My Breath Away” from Top Gun, I guess he likes Tom Cruise movies, go figure. The audience loves Relient K and the combination of Matt and the gang playing guitar and an old wood piano and dashing around on stage as the crowd sung along made it a great concert. Audio Adrenaline performed next on the mainstage and after playing popular tracks like “Ocean Floor” and “Hands and Feet” we all thanked them with applause for helping us rock out all these years in His name, as the band’s last show, in Canada at least, is in November at Canada Christian College, grab your tickets on http://www.ticketwindow.ca. Long days like this require sleep, so we headed back to the tent, but faithfully listened to a jam packed crowd rock out to Skillet at around midnight as we passed into REM sleep.

    Day 5 – Sunday July 9

    After being sun-baked and hearing more positive rock than Canada gets all year we headed over to the worship service to see Mr. David Crowder. We met Barb Nixon instead, a volunteer at Lifest, sticking around to help clean up and serve whoever needed help. It was boiling hot outside, but Barb’s story warmed my heart even more, she had a lot of serious tragedy happen in her life, but what she was really looking for was her brother’s child, as her brother and his wife are now deceased. The baby was born in Wisconsin, potentially around OshKosh, so all I can say about Sunday is I hope Barb finds her little nephew or niece. David Crowder was taking too long to show, so we packed our bags after listening to Bob Lenz and his sister and jumped in our electric blue rental car and made the long journey home. Of course we had to get lost in Milwaukee and Chicago on their lovely detours; any city planners out there should know removing the detour signs half way through the detour is not a good idea! We made it through though and ended up in a lightshow of rain and thunder in Michigan State. Trucks may have thrown buckets of water at our already drenched windshield, but we made it home and were happy for the A/C, what we learned, and all the people we met along the way.

    If you’d like to learn more about the festival visit http://www.lifest.com or are interested in finding out more about the artists and issues discussed please email us at info@soulshine.ca with the subject line: Lifest.

    Writer: Lindsay Whitfield

  • Badger Bugler

    Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”?

    What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

    After all, here is someone — reporter Ben Jones — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since he’s a reporter and his relationship with Christ is unknown):

    Posted at:

    http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/APC0101/707180678/1979

    Photo Caption to story (features two girls swinging): “The Air Glory carnival swing, being used by participants during Lifest 2006, was due for a surprise inspection by the state this week. Inspectors instead are trying to find out how the ride killed a Menasha teenager last week at the Christian music festival held in Oshkosh. The state inspects all amusement rides on an annual basis. Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers photo”

  • Badger Bugler

    Yet another example in the …

    Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”? Investigative Journalism Class!

    What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

    After all, here is someone — reporter Ben Jones — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since he’s a reporter and his relationship with Christ is unknown):

    Posted at:

    http://www.thenorthwestern.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/APC0101/707180678/0/theme

    Photo Caption to story (features two girls swinging): “The Air Glory carnival swing, being used by participants during Lifest 2006, was due for a surprise inspection by the state this week. Inspectors instead are trying to find out how the ride killed a Menasha teenager last week at the Christian music festival held in Oshkosh. The state inspects all amusement rides on an annual basis. Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers photo”

  • Badger Bugler

    And yet another example in the …

    Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”? Investigative Journalism Class!

    What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

    After all, here is someone — reporter Ben Jones — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since he’s a reporter and his relationship with Christ is unknown):

    Posted at:

    http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070718/APC0101/707180678/2044/SHE0208

    Photo Caption to story (features two girls swinging): “The Air Glory carnival swing, being used by participants during Lifest 2006, was due for a surprise inspection by the state this week. Inspectors instead are trying to find out how the ride killed a Menasha teenager last week at the Christian music festival held in Oshkosh. The state inspects all amusement rides on an annual basis. Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers photo”

  • Badger Bugler

    And yet still another example in the …

    Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”? Investigative Journalism Class!

    What do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

    After all, here is someone — Q90 FM’s Matt Metzler (again, another Christian media Grandstander and Liar?!) — who openly wrote and reported on air something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 with his on air partner, Dave Fiorazo (must not be true, though, since they’re reporter/hosts and their relationship with Christ is unknown — but check out those date stamped photos — must be doctored, like the Zapruder Film, to fake out the whole world tht Air Glory was there when it wasn’t):

    Posted at:

    http://www.q90fm.com/air-matt-lefest06.htm

    “Matt Takes it to the Edge – At Lifest 2006

    Dave Fiorazo called me from Lifest, and described this ride to me over the phone called ‘Air Glory.’ On the ride, you are strapped into a harness and lifted into the air- face down. Once you pull the cord, you free-fall/swing 100 feet below! It sounded like fun…

    But, I just couldn’t keep my mouth shut….could I? During contest time on the Rockin’ Revolutin I said, “If the first caller doesn’t get the question right, I will ride on ‘Air Glory’ at Lifest.” The first caller didn’t get the question right.

    So, (being a man of my word) I was ready and willing to go on the ride…until I arrived at Lifest and saw the beast they call ‘Air Glory.’ I have to admit- I was terrified. But, before I knew it, I was strapped into a harness (with a friend from church) and pulled 100 feet into the air while lying face-down with nothing to hold on to. 3….2….1….we pulled the cord and started swinging through the air. It was a blast! Check out these photos! (And imagine me screaming my head off!)

    So, how will I take it to the edge next? I don’t really know. That’s where you come in! I’ll be taking your suggestions during the Rockin’ Revolution every Friday night. Give me al call on the Q-Lines and suggest a crazy idea!

    Be sure to stop by this page every month to see my latest adventures! And, (of course) keep tuning in to the Rockin’ Rev!” -Matt”

  • Badger Bugler

    Aw, crud and dung on the heals of my shoes, yet another example in the …

    Just what “research” did you do before “popping off”? Investigative Journalism Class!

    Once again, what do you think about the Commerce Report’s claim that AIR GLORY was not registered in 2006 and not in Wisconsin?

    After all, here is someone — reporter Michelle Malone of AlphaOmegaNews — who openly said something about AIR GLORY at LIFEST 2006 (must not be true, since hse’s a Christian reporter and her relationship with Christ and legal history is unknown — quick, check her out on CCAP):

    Posted at:

    http://www.alphaomeganews.org/reviews/concerts/07/lifest_2006.html

    And what about her photographic evidence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Remembering Lifest 2006

    For the past four summers I have attended Lifest, while I have had wonderful experiences each time, this past summer impacted me more than previous years.

    Arriving at the gate, I was hauling along spiritual dryness, frustration from trying to overcome hurts from relationships, as well as plain weariness.

    As I awoke the first morning from the illumination of the sun, and as I was camping on the Lifest grounds, I wandered near the main stage. I came across the prayer walk, which was new. Drawn by my curiosity, I went to each station and felt God’s life in my heart stirred up more and more as I began to reconnect with God’s Holiness, Jesus’ sacrifice, repentance and passion for the lost.

    Each day the dryness was moistened more and more as I was reminded of the wonder of God from the daily devotions and seminars, being lead in worship lead by musicians such as Leeland and Benton Brown, as well as from the concerts by artists including Newsboys, Jars of Clay, Rebecca St. James, Sanctus Real, Todd Agnew, Natalie Grant, Barlowgirl, David Crowder and many more!

    As I took the challenge of the “Air Glory” with a friend and then experienced it again on my own! As I pulled the corded that released me to rapidly descend from the heights, and then swung over the pavement, I remembered how God has His “harness” on me in all situations, and that I could trust Him to get me through every situation!

    One of the best parts of the festival was having the opportunity to share it with my closest friend for the first time, as well as spending time with two people whom I met through working at the festival together a few years ago, whom I have gotten to know over the years. The time with these excellent people was healing to just “be” with and chat with them! It was definitely a festival that I will remember for many years to come! I am thankful that God gave me the opportunity to attend Lifest 2006! And I am sure that Lifest 2007 will offer spiritual renewal and refreshment to those who attend!

    - Michelle Malone

  • Badger Bugler

    Hey, everyone’s a pundit, I can only pray that someone’s looking out for your kids like I and many others did this year and previous years. With attacks like yours here, though, I think that LIFEST volunteer-ism will drop again next year — down to 1,000 in 2007 from 1,600 in 2006! (Where were you?)

    No doubt, you didn’t waste time popping off only the day after the “accident” given all the first hand information you had, pundit!

    http://www.clank.org/pundit/2007/07/15/lifest-tragedy/

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Lifest tragedy 15-Jul-2007

    I’ve just spent the the last 4 days at Lifest. We brought our girls, ages 5 through 10, to see some of their favorite bands, and to have them hear a few others that mom and dad listened to when they were too young to know.

    Then, yesterday at about 4:40 p.m. the fun was interrupted by sirens. The first vehicle to arrive was a fire truck. My wife and I compared notes later and we both thought, “hey, carnival food, maybe a deep fryer caught fire”… and then we realized the truck was heading up toward the artist merchandise barn. Shortly after that, an ambulance arrived, and we knew something was terribly wrong. The obvious conclusion was that something had happened with the Air Glory ride near the barn.

    I’m very, very upset by this tragedy. My heart grieves for the loss of this young woman; if the rumors are true, she wasn’t much older than my eldest. I can only imagine the pain that her family is suffering now, and I’m sure it’s worse than I can dream.

    Here’s what UPI has to say:

    A teenage girl was killed in a bungee-jumping accident Saturday at a Christian rock festival in Wisconsin.

    United Press International – NewsTrack – Top News – Bungee jumper dies at Christian festival

    The press coverage of this is very disturbing in a different way. This article is an example of how the press is propagating what appears to be one writer’s speculation. Air Glory is not a bungee jumping, or bungee-like, ride.

    If you read the article, you’ll also be presented with some similarly uninformed “facts.” To clarify: The festival did not shut down for two hours. The festival did not simply resume scheduled events, either immediately or after some period of time.

    I was there.

    One problem with this reporting is that nobody bothered to understand what Air Glory was before putting pen to paper (or hands to keyboard). This amusement ride is a giant swing operated from a crane. Riders are suspended from the crane with cables, and when released, swing back and forth. They do not bounce, the cables do not stretch perceptibly, and there’s no jumping involved.

    Another issue is with the reporting of what happened next. There simply wasn’t much scheduled around that time, so to say that the events shut down for two hours is misleading. Perhaps the reporters are trying to paint the image of event organizers “doing the right thing,” but all this does is give me the impression that they were more concerned about image than about what was going on. Artists were up on stage talking about what had happened, and on at least one stage they were soon singing songs of life and of hope; lest you think there were only “mellow worship songs” as reported you might consider checking out Red. Indeed, every artist and speaker I heard, including some while walking between events and eating dinner, took time during and between each event to express love and support for this girl and her family.

    If I know the people who run Lifest – and I am acquainted with a number of them – they are directly and personally involved as much as they can be. They are not impersonal corporate suits. They are not there to make money (they’ve lost money on this festival every year). They love our youth, and it will be an even bigger tragedy if sloppy reporting like this makes anybody think otherwise.

    UPDATE: At least one report in a local paper has correctly identified Air Glory as a “freefall swing ride.”

  • James

    can someone please ban the troll????

  • Badger Bugler

    And that darn Christian radio Matt guy is off lying again about Air Glory being part of LIFEST 2006 at:

    http://www.q90fm.com/what-news/2006-lifest.htm

    Lifest 2006

    Lifest 2006….so much fun, and so many memories! The concerts, speakers, music, booths, ministries, shopping, camping, skate park, inflatable games, air glory, food, prayer tent, fireworks, silent auction, kidzone, sports, paintball, karaoke, and more!

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Darn, pundit, how the facts get in the way of you and so many others telling a good story!

  • Badger Bugler

    Pundit…

    Do you ever worry that all the music in your soul is in a minor key?

    And hopelessly out of tune?

    Sort of like the ringer on your not so mod moto?

  • Badger Bugler

    Do the voice in your head always say this, Pundit:

    “questiOnabLy sAne.?
    … you should hear the voices in my head.”

  • Badger Bugler

    Why ban the troll, James?

    Can’t you speak whatever drivel (or truth) you wish at any time?

  • Philip

    It’s obvious someone is taking this whole attention thing and running. I think someone needs to find a job and not sit on blogs through the wee hours of the morning. Get a job Badger, and get some sleep.

  • everyone’s a pundit

    More abusiveness and hate-mongering directed at me, without provocation?

  • Badger Bugler

    “everyone’s a pundit said,

    July 28, 2007 at 3:32 pm

    More abusiveness and hate-mongering directed at me, without provocation?”

    WHERE’S THE ABUSE AND HATE-MONGERING, SCOOTER? Care to explain yourself?

    Imagine the word count for all of your blogging…

    P.S. Pundit. Nice family pics at Lambeau! Wanna see mine from inside the locker room with my very ashamed daughters and one or two of the Pack’s best known Super Bowlers? NAH! You’d think I was bragging! (So explain your humility on that very extensive blog of yours!)

    AND, HEY, PHILIP! Please keep your medical advice to yourself. You’re neither informed or qualified to render opinions on such matters here! (Do you also suggest third shift cops and facory workers take a nap on duty? Oh, I forgot, being informed and qualified is not what most of you are about here, then, are you?!)

    AND FOR ALL OF YOU “KEEP IT SHORT AND SWEET!”-ers… How do you deal with that niggling (that’s not a curse word — look it up — nor is niggardly) little passage of Scripture that says that “if the accounts of all of His miracles were recorded in books the world would not be big enough to contain them all!” ?

    That’s why I believe that your problem is not with me but with the Word of God itself, you word counters instead of Word contemplators and proclaimers! (Pretty consistent with some of those odd “theological philosophies” — would that be a “theophosy”? — of yours, Scotty Rey—-s!)

    SCOOTER & PHIL … FIRE DOWN & MOD THOSE MOTOS, BOYS! And iCompose a new tune, as the one you keep singing is woefully out of tune with the Music of His Soul!

  • everyone’s a pundit

    Q.E.F.

    (Thanks for the demonstration.)

  • Badger Bugler

    My pleasure!

    Anything for the gentle, long haired giant in Mr. Reynolds’ Neighborhood!

    Quo Eras Factotum!

  • Badger Bugler

    Yet…

    ANOTHER FINE PRESENTATION of WES HALULA,
    COMEDY SPORTZ & THE HAPPY FUN TIME LOUNGE at LIFEST!

    Copyright 2007 – Happy Fun Time Miscreations, Inc.

  • everyone’s a pundit

    That would be “Quod Erat Faciendum.”

    I’ve read your extensive blog too. Sad state of spiritual and intellectual affairs you seem to reveal in your life.

  • http://friendlyatheist.com FriendlyAtheist

    Badger Bugler has been banned.

    I think.

  • Richard Wade

    Aw, gee. I was having so much fun making fun of the troll feeders.

  • Maria

    wow…….I think this thread will down in history…….does anyone have ANY idea what in the hell he was talking about? I tried reading his posts but it was like reading Greek…….

  • tc

    Very interesting reading ie…Badger Bugler. Having been there I find his importance somewhat exagerated. He sounds like he was the tireless security worker seeking to make the world a better place, when in fact he spent more time wondering when his free meal was ready, and telling us how he ran Billy Grahams Crusade in the USSR. Sooo much hate and so little time.

  • tc

    By the way, Air Glory was there in 2006, I rode it.

  • Claire

    Hey I know that there are a ton of different views on all of this, but I would like to say, that when they stated the rides resumed after 2 hours… They meant all the other ones, with the exception of Air Glory, that was shut down for the rest of the event. I think the only other rides there were inflatable toys, and than stuff like volleyball, basketball, the skate park, etc. And when you stated that christians will have the view of ” It was God’s time to take her” or ” you never know when God will take a life.”, not all christians are entirely like that. I do agree that the ride broke due a human biengs mistake, but eveything thing happens for a reason. Maybe not because God had wanted to take her at that moment, but Im sure that her dying had a much larger meaning behind it.
    I went to lifest this year, bieng my first time, and I was right there when it happened. I really thought that, regardless of it being a christian festival, there was still going to be ppl who would steal and vandalize things there. But I was surprised that no matter how wierd and bad some of these ppl looked, you could still leave your cell phone and charger in the bathroom and not get it stolen. That surprised me alot, considering there were like 18,000 ppl there. When we were all in prayer circles and praying for this girl and her family, at first I thought wow I do no take my religion that serious. I mean I went to a christian school and went to church every wed. and fri. But our family in general was never the type to go to church every sunday and pray before every meal and before you go to bed. But after this event, I relized alot of things. So I guess what Im saying is ..everyone is not going to be a perfect chritian, and there will always be ppl who will disagree and make us all sound looney, but al I can say is, if you really have the need to say all that crap about this whole event and what everyone said, than you have to have been there to expierience it.

  • Kris Potts

    God only knows what’s going on here, but I do remember wondering a time or two when the Lifest leaders would keep their promises and provide the free meals and breaks we were to get when working extended shifts. Funny enough, they usually broke those promises, too. I’ll let it off to grace in that have were woefully understaffed and entirely unprepared to do their due diligence in protecting the people who attended, and with gathering security people around to give them the big skinny (via Stan Alt) on just what we would all be required to do in order to facilitate deadly moshing at The Edge Stage), and were — in the persons of Bob Lenz and Stan Alt themselves — more concerned with getting their friends back stage without passes or admissions of any sort (one of the reasons Bob Lenz eventually, according to the recipient himself, read Stan Alt the riot act for breaking security procedures (what was good for Bob goose was not OK for Stan Gander, I Guess) and poor Stan walked around pouting for the rest of his days ever after. My dear Lord, these people — all of them — are so amazing, majoring in the minors, as they do, and minoring in the majors. A girl is dead and dozens more were hurt and you write lies and worry about a meal or two that were promised, needed and undelivered. They are amazing, so amazing… Then again, it’s always the tack of the guilty to turn attention to those who tried to stop something, and those who speak the truth. No wonder the truth is so hard to find! Even alleged Christians like TC are more concerned with extraneous crap than the truth of all the surrounded the death of one of his/her presumed sisters in Christ. I’m laughing at your vain and mailicous attempt to change attention from the death of Elizabeth Mohl and Lifest’s liability for that death. I know God isn’t remotely impressed with me and/or anything I’ve done anywhere, including in Russia. I’m sure, however, that He and the rest of the world are now quite and immeasurably impressed with you… OOPS, gotta go…that free Lifest meal just showed up at my door. Well, Lord, better late than never, eh?!

    Kris Potts

    OH, one more thing before I answer the door for the bag of potato chips and bottle of warm water, TC… didn’t you write just up there a little bit that Air Glory was at Lifest in 2006 and that you rode on it? Hmmmm… Funny, though, that your claim contradicts the Department of Commerce. Who’s telling the truth, then TC? (Are you that handsome and debonair TC that works with Thomas Magnum, P.I.?) I’m sure Clare, up there, is glad you were “there to experience it.” Then again, so was I. Wonder who’s telling the truth? The camera coverage does not lie! Nor do I. Coming to a court room near you very soon…

  • Kris Potts

    Just for anyone who might wonder, TC, I went to look for the citation from the report, that is right here on this site:

    “The ride was first registered in Wisconsin in 2003. An inspection was conducted in August 2003 and corrective orders issued. In August 2004, Commerce re-inspected the ride, found that the orders had been complied with, and approved the ride for operation. The ride was registered in 2005. This ride was not registered in 2006, and therefore was not in the State of Wisconsin and not available for or subject to inspection. The ride was registered in 2007. Lifest was its first scheduled event. It was scheduled for an inspection on Tuesday, July 17, 2007, at its second and final event in Twin Lakes.”

    Funny enough, that’s what BadgerBugler was saying all along, yet you attack the veracity of such claims by attacking me over something so minor, even if true, with nothing to do with the death and injuries. Sounds like the tactics of Satan himself, smoke and mirrors like you are blowing, that is!

    Yet after all this, and your late attacks, you admit that you rode Air Glory in 2006.

    And yet there it is, right in the Commerce report, that AIR GLORY was not in Wisconsin in 2006!

    So who’s telling the truth, BadgerBugler and you, or Lifest and the Commerce Department.

    One can, then, only conclude that TC is, along with his arch-nemeses Badger Bugler and ol’ KP, the Critter he attacks, the liar!

    Liar, liar, pants on fire, can’t get over the Air Glory wire.


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