Ask Richard: My Parents Don’t Take My Atheism Seriously

I hate to state the obvious, but you have a rather open and shut case against the catholic school, and you could potentially sue them.

If you’re asked a question in an interview that has anything to do with your religion that is an EEOC violation. It doesn’t matter if your the government, private sector, or a catholic based organization. That is something that an employer is not allowed to touch.

A lawsuit might not be justified here, or even hard to start depending on what you can or can’t prove, but you should at the very least file a complaint.

http://www.eeoc.gov/field/index.cfm

It’s not revealed where Frustrated lives, but if it’s inside the USA (which the economy statement would make likely) wasn’t the question he was asked in the job interview illegal?

I don’t think so, as long as it was a private institution that received no government funding. Since the school is funded by the Catholic Church and Catholic benefactors, it’s understandable that they want Catholic (or at least generic Christian) staff.

As luck would have it, I was talking to my wife a couple days ago about my ex, who incidentally was a (more or less) good Polish Catholic girl. She told me several times, “You’re not really an atheist.” It’s a remark that has bugged the bejeezus out of me.

If anyone ever has the nerve to tell me that again, I have the perfect means of showing them how condescending & how demeaning the remark is.

When the occasion presents itself, say something like: “You’re so reasonable and responsible. I just can’t believe that you believe in God, Church Doctrine, etc. I just don’t think you’re serious in your profession of faith.”

Then if they get all offended, or what not, remark that now you know who I feel.

Frustrated could have answered Church of the FSM. But that probably wouldn’t have worked either. It would have elicited a puzzled look though 🙂

Ah yes, I had a similar issue where my father said he thinks it’s just a phase. And my mother has tried to blame everything but myself for my apostasy; that I’m a rational adult who used reason to reach a conclusion is not an option for consideration in why I am now an atheist. I’ve also heard, through my younger brother who’s still living at home (at least until he finishes high school this spring), about my mother talking with my younger sister about how “stupid” my arguments are when I defend my position. I find this more amusing than anything, coming from a couple of college dropouts who don’t know the first thing about logic.

I don’t really care what my parents think at this point. I’m happy with my life, and if they aren’t that’s their problem, as Richard put it. I think my brother is more upset with how they’re treating me than I am. He’s actually getting into some hot water with my mother for trying to stand up for me; I need to tell him that it’s OK to let it slide while he has to live at home.

Fett101,

IANAL, but, to my knowledge, religion has an exception under that law. According to U. S. Code Chapter 21, section 2000e-2, (e):

Businesses or enterprises with personnel qualified on basis of religion, sex, or national origin; educational institutions with personnel of particular religion

Notwithstanding any other provision of this subchapter, […] (2) it shall not be an unlawful employment practice for a school, college, university, or other educational institution or institution of learning to hire and employ employees of a particular religion if such school, college, university, or other educational institution or institution of learning is, in whole or in substantial part, owned, supported, controlled, or managed by a particular religion or by a particular religious corporation, association, or society, or if the curriculum of such school, college, university, or other educational institution or institution of learning is directed toward the propagation of a particular religion.

In other words, if a school is owned by Catholics and/or teaches Catholic curriculum, they can legally discriminate against other religions only.

These letters are starting to get tiresome. I love the blog but they all reek of the same childish tone.

You are 22. You live with mom and dad. Mom is a Christian. She doesn’t like that you are an atheist.

1. You are still essentially their child. You cannot be supported by your parents and simultaneously be upset that they don’t respect you as an adult. Because you are not truly an adult.

2. While 22 might seem old, 22 yr olds everywhere are considered children because you are still very young. I am 27 and take no offense if someone treats me like a child, the older you get the younger…younger people look..if that makes sense.

3. “Hey mom, I think your entire emotional and spiritual support structure is a lie. I don’t believe it and I think you are silly to believe it. Can we be best friends now?” How can you be surprised that your mother isn’t happy you have denied your upbringing? I am an atheist and my mother insists I “have faith” whatever that means. Don’t let it bother you.

The advice to this one was pretty solid. Essentially you should get a job, make some money, live your own life. Crying about the disapproval of your parents doesn’t validate your argument that you are an adult, it weakens it.

Being an adult is about your own opinion of yourself, and living up to that opinion each day. Stay true to your own values, period.

uh Comma,being an adult is also about other things, things like not needing your parents approval on every little thing, about taking care of yourself, about paying your bills, about being an independent person. Even in these down times we Americans still live a pretty good life when compared to the vast majority of the human population and frankly your letter comes off a bit sniveling and childish. While you stand firm on your moral high ground your parents are stuck holding the bill, a real bill with a dollar amount that must be paid, the mortgage, the power bill, the grocery bill, the works. Make your life happen, do what it takes to be an adult, take a bus if you have to, lots of people do. Move outside your ideal profession if need be and get a frigging job, lots of adults are in a position right about now where they will take any job even jobs far beneath what their education level and experience would qualify them for. If you are an atheist and vocal about it, (or refuse to hide it) you can expect more than just this one roadblock, it’s a mean world out there. You will never know how firm you stand on your values until you have to weigh them against the real consequences of standing your ground. Will you compromise if it means being evicted because your morals are more important than a roof over your head, or food, or a warm coat? Will you cower in the closet and lie to gain favor with our Christian overlords so you can drive a nice car and live in a nice house? As long as you allow your parents to clean up your messes you will never know and will remain in their eyes, (and the eyes of most adults) a child. Turning 18 or 21, or being true to yourself is not the measure of adulthood, taking care of business is closer to the point, being a grown up is not always happy warm fuzzy business, life can be a bitch sometimes. Suck it up, get a job and make your way in the world, sounds to me like you’ll be fine but don’t expect peaches and cream right out the gate, it’s a struggle particularly right now. If your big problem is that your parents tease you for being an atheist then you are in better shape than many in this harsh economic climate. If your parents can afford to float you for a while be thankful, cut them some slack, it is expensive to run a household as you will soon find out. Being an adult is not all bad by the way, it has some nifty perks, but it is hard work. Stop complaining and make your life happen, independence is quite a buzz, I bet you’ll like it.

@Thegoodman So he’s not an adult because he can’t find a job and has to live with them?

I think that’s pretty judgmental of you.

My father had to move in with his mother at 40 because he lost his job, so I guess he’s not an adult either.

Hi Frustrated,

In reference to your mother’s comment: “But you’re not an atheist.”

I don’t know her, but (and I will play devil’s advocate) probably what she meant was “but you are a nice person.”

There is still much stigma attached to that word.

I once was talking to a Catholic acquaintance who, in reference to a Jewish person she liked, said: “it is not like she is an atheist.” God forbid!, I thought :). I found the whole thing sad, but I know she meant it in a positive way.

Richard offers you great advice. Good luck.

My advice would be to get any job- not eschew gainful employment simply because its not a teaching position. You’re 22 with a college degree. Get a job- move out and you won’t have to worry about what your parents say.

Say what you will about the other information offered in the letter, but I think it’s tiresome and pointless to judge someone’s maturity/adulthood cred/whatever based on age alone. Yes, we know the brain goes through different stages during development that gives, say, a 12-year-old much more capacity for reasoning than a 9-year-old, but once you get past 18-20, it’s all down to you (and your environment, and the developed brain you’ve landed with).

I remember being shocked and peeved when I was 18 and rooming with a girl one year my senior. She was always talking about how I’d understand things when I was her age. Many people in their thirties will see people in their twenties as less-than-mature, people in their forties will see people in their thirties as less-mature, and on up. Perhaps replace “mature” with “wise” in some cases.

Our experiences and thoughts differ so vastly from individual to individual, that age is really one of the least reliable indicators of maturity. I know plenty of people well into middle-age who lack emotional maturity, and plenty of level-headed, mature people in their twenties.

“You’re not really an atheist” may well be merely a misunderstanding of the meaning of the word. Instead of simply identifying someone who has no belief in a God, perhaps your parents think the word has a broader meaning. Maybe they think it means someone without conscience or compassion (psychopath), someone who is the antithesis of what they believe a religionist should be (and thus, Evil if they attribute being Good to religion), a baby eater, Hitler, . . . well we know the list.

A Christian once gave my mother what she believed was a compliment: I am surprised to discover you are an atheist. You are much more Christian than most of my Christian friends.
What she meant was that mother was honest, compassionate, generous, upstanding, and had a sense of justice and a conscience. These were all attributes she associated with Christianity, and her upbringing had never allowed her to understand that they come from within, rather than being assigned from a God and undertaken from fear of that God.

So if your mother has “atheist” entangled with “evil” in her lexicon, then what she really meant was “you aren’t really a bad person (because I know you to be good), so you can’t be serious using the “bad person” (read “atheist”) label for yourself.

This goes along with the phrase, “you don’t want that,” that parents often use. You know you do, and how can they decide what you want? That is something only you would know.
What they mean is that you could want that, but you shouldn’t want it and if you get it you will be disappointed.
It took me 60 years to figure out that my parents just didn’t notice they had denied my feelings and opinions, and thereby my validity and worth, by making a statement that was patently false.

I am sure your parents meant it as a compliment to your goodness.
—————-

As to the lying . . . yes they asked a question that they should not have. And I commend you for being honest in the face of opposition from the people on whom you depend.

I wonder if your mother thinks Jesus has given you permission to lie because it is important to get a job. Sounds like situational ethics to me.

wow, glad i live in belgium , i have the same problem with my mom, but people over here are a lot more secular (both religious & non-religious, except the muslims and jehova’s whitnesses they’re still kinda extreme)

i personally still study on a christian school, but as there isnt any prayer or anything and the religion classes are kinda general (tho the teacher still hates it when i correct errors & her false assumptions)

its a xtian school, but my english & PAV (geography,history,etc) teacher is an atheist and mostly shares my views. and finally because the schools located in the center of GENK wich used to have a mine & thus a lot of imigrants , most students are muslims (wich can get scary as some do get agressive when debating their beliefs …)

I’m agreeing entirely with Vas here.

I know these are tough economic times but what’s with all the 20-something’s these days who are living off their parents’ generosity, even if out of necessity, then totally dissing their parents. You can’t have it both ways. Have your parents pay your way then try to censor their behavior in their house.

My daughter and I are just coming out of this scenario and she’s Hemant’s age. (OK, she’s a month older.) I wish she had been as mature. We are dealing with other issues, of course, that made the growing up part difficult among them diagnosed mental illness. I’m glad she didn’t have a baby in her teens but she did in her 20’s without steady employment (I’m sorry but retail is not steady) and has been annoyingly trying to fight me all the way while having me carry her. No, I don’t think so.

Finally, she womaned up. Getting diagnosed and properly treated helped, of course, (and that took hell on earth) but I think the big thing that did was my waking up one day and not being able to walk for two days. It kind of woke her up to the reality that she might not be able to force her mother to carry the ball when she wouldn’t and if she kept trying to, it was only going to break down my health all the worse.

She’s finally pulled it together even though she still has to deal with the illness and just doesn’t function without the proper medication but there was a point wherein it was so bad that I’d have given up on her if not for my grandson. I would have done the tough love thing and let her fall to the homeless shelter DSS was threatening to put her in. I was unwilling to subject her innocent child (who I also love, of course) to that alone with a mother who was not being an adult to say the least. I did feel a need to look out for him so took them in and it’s been downright awful at times. We got through though sometimes even I can’t believe it.

My problems walking have scared her. In the last two years, I’ve gone to a cane and then a walker. I’ve been struggling to continue to work a desk job but have finally faced reality and applied for disability retirement from my pension system because I can without quitting and because it really has become that difficult even though I’ve an easy desk job. I’m on a goddamn walker. It’s tough just going in to work every day then having to manuveur around throughout the day. My office is rather an accessible nightmare.

My daughter womaned up and is going to college and working two part-time jobs. She’s still partially on assistance but also carrying part of the financial load. When I went to the walker, I was naturally worried about the possiblity of losing my income and her having to drop out of school if I did, she said, “Mom, if worse comes to worse, I can get out loans for school.” That’s the moment when I knew she had, at last, grown up.

My point? Do the same. Being a grownup isn’t about being full of yourself. It’s about doing what needs getting done even when it sucks to do so. If you’re living off someone else’s charity in their home, shut up and put up and jump up to help them with chores and such.

By that I don’t mean you can never disagree with your parents but do the mature thing and be judicious in how you do. You know, it is a strain on them to carry you. Yes, it might not be your fault (though it does sound like you need to swallow your pride and take something else to tide you over until you get that teaching job) but the situation still is what it is and you should be considerate of the fact that it is stressful to them and a strain on their resources.

After 22 years of parenting, damn it, they are just plain tired and were probably looking forward to the break but understand that you’re having a tough time getting independent of them times being what they are. Your mother’s nagging about a job is indicative that she is feeling stressed and put on even though she loves you and is carrying you because she does.

You’ll forgive me for saying this but you don’t seem to be mindful of this fact. Why aren’t you at least flipping burgers and offering them a portion of your pay? Unless they had you when they were very, very young, they are staring down the barrell end of retirement with the Social Security system under threat of disappearing and should be putting money they used to spend on your care towards the time when they get too old to work. Frankly, you should be more worried about that then you are about them accepting your ideas. You should be caring about them the way they are you by giving you a roof in your time of need.

My daughter and I are now at a place where we are both dependent on each other and hated it initially. Trust me, I am not someone who accepts any curtailment to my independence. I’ve lived life on my own terms since I was 18. Now I have to rely heavily on her. It sucks. But we’ve come to accept reality and realize that it’s give and take. She’s given up trying to tell me what’s what and holds her tongue. Frankly, if she didn’t, crippled or not, I’d go out, get my own place and manage somehow. I can only continue to lean on her because she does not think that makes her boss.

When your Mom says “you’re not really Atheist” it’s because she’s having trouble accepting that you’re that different from her while still being her baby. The only way to change that is to stop being her baby and get freaking independent. She’ll gain respect for you if she sees you doing what needs doing even if she still disagrees vehemently with you.

Trust me. I know.

All this talk about whether he’s a real adult is beside the point: his parents should respect his religious beliefs, regardless of whether they think it’s a phase or not. Economic circumstances (which are out of his control, I might add) are not relevant to that.

Consider: if the economy were better (which, again, is out of his control), and he did have a job and was financially independent of his parents, but was otherwise exactly the same person with exactly the same psychological profile and so forth, would that suddenly mean his religious (as opposed to economic) beliefs are more worthy of respect?

his parents should respect his religious beliefs

Why?

I like to be open with my parents, so several months ago I told them that I was an atheist. My mom looked at me and said, “But you’re not an atheist.” It really surprised me to hear her say that, and I then found myself having to explain to her that I really am. When she finally believed it, she and my dad both started making fun of my atheism rather loudly in a restaurant.

and:

That made my mom rather angry. I understand that she wants me to get a job, but I don’t want to just outright lie. But because she doesn’t really believe that I’m an atheist, or that I won’t remain an atheist, she still thinks that I should’ve lied. That really bothers me.

Your mom sounds like a manipulative person who is advocating that you commit fraud against your potential new employer. You have a higher standard of ethics than this, and your honesty is one of the reasons you’re an atheist.

Because you’re also a decent and loving person, you’ll balk at my description of your mother (who, yes, I’m sure has many fine qualities too).

But my description is correct.