It’s Only Temporary

and that every action or reaction to anything is your responsibility not an unknown “plan”. Liberating and terrifying all in one.

I cried – tears of joy!

Becoming an Atheist had the very opposite effect on me. It was an incredible relief, it was the ultimate freedom.

 christians don’t believe in a reckoning, they believe some people will get off scott free while others are unjustly punished.

If that is what you believe about the doctrine of Christianity than you are very mistaken. Christianity holds that we are all sinners and the price of sin is death. Unless you accept Jesus Christ as your savior you are not saved from this outcome. It is the ultimate day of reckoning.

I think the only thing that can be a bit depressing is the fact that we don’t have some sort of afterlife to spend with family and friends. But, once you analyze where those beliefs come from, you soon realize that heaven, or whatever you want to call it, is really just a way to try and cope with death, then you realize what you believe doesn’t really exist. Of course I’d love to see my german shepherd I just put down again, but I know that the memories I created with her while she was alive are truly what I miss. No afterlife makes me appreciate more what I have now.

…exactly what Gordon was talking about. Jeffrey Dahmer who accepted Jesus while he was in prison will go to heaven, but Gandhi will burn forever in hell. That’s fair.

Most Christians believe that even though we are all “sinners” and created imperfect due to some ancient transgression by some ancient ancestor’s original sin, it is somehow just for some supposed god to hold us to a perfect standard and punish us with eternal torment for failing to live up to that impossible standard. Worse yet, the only supposed way to avoid this fate is not to be as kind, honest, and compassionate as possible, but to kneel before some imaginary scapegoat and believe absurd, ancient fairy tales based on the flimsiest evidence imaginary. 
That belief is not just ridiculous, it is morally obscene.  Fortunately, there is absolutely no reason to believe that this perverse fantasy is true.  

I was pretty terrified of that at first. I went from believing that I would spend eternity in heaven to realizing that I would just not exist anymore, and it was a bit of a shock. Your mind is naturally programmed to think of the future, so it cannot properly comprehend nonexistence.
It just takes time. I doubt there’s anything I could make you say that would suddenly make you okay with it. I definitely spent a few nights crying at the thought of it, but now I don’t. I just think of it like a night of dreamless sleep (Yes, I know you dream every night, but there are nights that feel like you didn’t dream). Everything’s dark and quiet, but you don’t even think of it. You don’t really realize you’re sleeping and you won’t realize it until you wake up. You don’t feel bored or scared or sad at all because you really don’t feel aware of anything. It’s the waking up that makes you aware, but if you never woke up, you would never realize you were sleeping.
It still scares me a little bit now, but I assume that when I’m older, it will feel much more welcome.

While it’s not impossible to be atheist and still believe in an afterlife, I do think that atheism does strongly imply that there is no afterlife.
There is no evidence for an afterlife, just like there is no evidence for a god, so there is no reason to believe in one besides wishful thinking. Furthermore, we can see that all our self-awareness is centered in our brains. When we die, our brains die too and eventually fall apart. I see no way that we could go on being self-aware without a functioning brain.
Still, I completely understand why people want to believe in an afterlife. Sometimes I wonder about near-death experiences. It makes me think that (depending on the way you die) crazy things happen in the brain so that your perception of time is warped and you hallucinate. Near-death experiences tend to be very positive and peaceful from everything I’ve heard. I can see this as being a mini-afterlife of sorts, but I doubt it continues forever. It seems like the last workings of the brain before it finally dies. That’s kind of comforting to think about. It leaves at least the possibility that the process of death can be a pleasant experience for some people before they are completely gone.

I still haven’t figured out how to make atheism work for me in getting all that swinging, promiscuous sex the christians promise people who become atheists. 

Apparently a lot of atheist guys have that problem, judging from all the complaints about sexual harassment at the conferences. 

I imagine death to be similar to what happens to me under general anesthesia – nothing.  I’m not conscious of time passing, of my body, of pain, or of anything at all.  It’s like a switch being turned off.   
Like preparing for surgery, I find preparing for my inevitable death to be the best antidote for fear.  Drafting a living will, health directive, resuscitation orders, and having a good life insurance policy to pay your bills after you’re gone – all this helps, as does talking with your family and friends about death.  It doesn’t have to be a morbid thing that you think about all the time, but talking about a scary subject does diminish the fear and anxiety.  In my opinion our culture causes this fear by not encouraging people of all ages to discuss death and dying openly.  We want people to keep grief and fear to themselves, which just makes it worse.  
When my son was killed in 2005, it was very difficult to accept the fact that I would never see him again.  The nature of his death and his young age made it much worse.  I was desperate to feel his presence, to see and hear him again…but I knew I wouldn’t.  But I also knew that he was not suffering in some hell or watching me suffer my grief from some biblical heaven or afterlife.  We keep his memory alive through talk, pictures, celebrating his life, and various memorials put up in places he enjoyed. In a way, this made it easier for me to accept my own eventual death, because I know it will be an end to grief and suffering for me, and I know I’ll be remembered by family, friends, and the people I’ve helped as a nurse.  After seven years, I no longer fear death at all.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.” – Mark Twain

I don’t have a problem with the ‘not existing’ part, either; I won’t know the difference. The only part I really fear is the prospect of a painful death and/or knowing I am dying. I’d rather just go quickly, or at least be unconscious for it. I used to have panic attacks and one of the big symptoms was feeling like I was choking. That terrified me even knowing in the rational part of my brain that it wasn’t really happening. But once I’m gone, I’ll be gone and the only ones who’ll know will be the people I leave behind.

This sums up my initial reaction to losing my faith quite nicely. I first began to doubt the existence of a god about six or seven years ago, when I was a freshman in high school. I would literally cry myself to sleep at the thought that perhaps, after we die, we do not get to go to Heaven but instead, cease to exist. There was something crushing and incredibly terrifying about that thought.

And the guilt was almost unbearable. I felt so bad about doubting god and was terrified that I would go to Hell for doubting. Circular reasoning, I know. These thoughts went on for several years. I would say that I really came to terms with my atheism when I started college at, funnily enough, a Christian university.

And now, I’m very comfortable with my atheism. I no longer feel the weight of guilt or sadness at the thought of non-existence. Instead, I’ve learned to enjoy the moments that I have with my (also atheist) husband, our families, and friends. And it sounds corny, but I appreciate life so much more now.

I strongly disagree that being an atheist implies that you don’t believe in an afterlife. Being a skeptic does, but not an atheist.

I posted this reply at great length in response to something on here a few months back. But to summarize, all I need for an afterlife is time travel and advanced medicine (well, and preferably terraforming). Here’s how it works – 10,000 years in the future, humans develop advanced medicine to the point that death is erased. 20,000 years from now, we develop time travel. We then use the time travel tech to return to the instant that everyone in the past has died, replace their body with a cloned duplicate, pull them forward to the future and revive them with future medical science. They then live a long and happy infinite life, until the heat death of the universe. I haven’t figured out a way around that one yet…

My point is that I’m strongly atheist, but that just means I don’t believe in invisible sky wizards. Humans are perfectly capable (theoretically) of creating an afterlife for everyone. No supernatural powers required. Atheists can have heaven.

That said, as a skeptic, I don’t actually believe any of that baloney. Don’t get me wrong, I -want- to believe it, and arguably with the same fervance that a religious person wants to believe in their gods. After all, most people aren’t looking forward to their eventual ceasing to exist. But I have absolutely no proof for my technological fairy tale. My skepticism leads me to being an athiest, and it also prevents me from thinking that any of what I wrote above in paragraph 2 is going to actually happen.

Atheists can also believe in unicorns, leprechauns, aliens, and bigfoot. Skeptics can’t.

It was liberating. If I was depressed or sad at all it was because I thought to myself  “how the hell did I believe that bullshit for so long”?

Do try to tone down the crankiness though. You’ll give nonbelievers a bad name.

I suppose Robert would argue that there are no “good people.” In his worldview, we all deserve eternal torture. It’s fair and just punishment for being such wretched “sinners.”

I wonder about these people’s self-esteem. I don’t actually see how it’s possible to be a fundamentalist Christian and have any kind of self-esteem. You’re told that you must believe that you’re born evil and deserve death, and the only thing that can make you better is Jesus. Without Jesus, you’re nothing; you’re lowlier than the lowliest worm.

I experienced a bit of an emotional crisis when I realized that gods don’t exist. I felt lonely and sad thinking about humanity spinning on a dust mote in the vast cloud of specs in the galaxy… I got over it soon afterwards. I saw that a lack of other magical stuff didn’t detract at all from my life, gods being the last to go.

No, no, he was spot on. The doctrine is that if you accept Jesus, you get to go to heaven, and if you don’t, you go to hell. Some people get of scott free (by accepting Jesus), while others are unjustly punished (those that don’t believe the BS).

 Never thought about the dead ones watching over people to be creepy… But now that you put it that way, I agree.  Totally creepy.

I can see what you are saying about thinking about the distinction between eternity of nothingness and not existing.  That makes a lot of sense.

Thank you so much for taking the time 🙂  I appreciate it a lot.

 Their self-esteem is propped up by their contempt for all the non-“Saved” people they consider inferior to themselves. And before some idiot argues the “we’re all sinners, some of us are just forgiven” drivel, YES THAT IS STILL THE POINT. YOU ARE CREATING AN OUTGROUP. WORDPLAY DOESN’T MAGICALLY CHANGE THAT.

/endcapslock for dummies

The follow-up/comment email that Frank posted under it was very moving to me.  I’m seriously happy for this person and glad their mom is coming around:

“On Saturday for the first time ever my
mom referred to me as an atheist instead of her usual “Its just a phase”
approach. This morning, instead of forcing me to go to church, she made
breakfast and I got to spend quality time with my family. This made me
feel closer to a higher power than church ever has.”

Well, I WAS going to say,
“While I agree about it being morally bankrupt, wouldn’t it be better to say ‘Abrahamic religions’ than Christianity? I find it hard to consider Christianity to actually be worse than Islam.”

Then I realized that the only reason Christianity is better is because it has been tainted in recent centuries by secular Western culture influenced by classical philosophy and Enlightenment values. Strip those away, and all you have is an evil mess.

Thank you for this post. It is the first time I’ve seen an acknowledgement anywhere that understanding that you are an atheist brings with it lots of things that can make you feel sad. Accepting that I’d never see many loved ones, like my Mom and Dad, was something I resisted.

Laugh out freaking loud!

I struggled with this for several years after “coming out” to myself as a nonbeliever in the idea of an afterlife. It was definitely the most difficult concept to come to terms with after a lifetime of security-blanket concepts that allowed my mind to gloss over the seemingly harsh reality of mortality. Being that the growth of my scientific understanding (in addition to my inner sense of morality) built and caused the final tipping point from hardcore follower to avid rejectionist of all things mythical or “traditional” without valid foundation, it was the science that has provided the most comfort for me concerning death. 

Knowledge that we all come from the same particles as the rest of life on this planet, and that before you were you, your particles were made up of hundreds of other living organisms which all combined directly into your pre-human self. When you die, those particles will distribute throughout the cycle of life, without skipping a beat. The only thing that ends is your specific consciousness. 

As Carl Sagan said, it’s lovely to think that humanity reaches to understand the universe because our consciousness is representative of these particles that are drawn from it, and we are the eyes and ears of all of existence. We are the universe’s way of watching and thinking about itself. It’s a nice thought. 

Thinking about how connected everything really is- scientifically speaking- helps me relax a little about the “end” of my life. Life never truly ends. It’s just a matter of perception.

I don’t think Islam even comes close to Christianity in terms of being morally foul. Indeed, I consider it quite a mild, typical religion- worship the god, obey a few rules, go to heaven. Be good, take care of people. Kill infidels. That’s pretty much the message of most religions, through most of history. None of the nasty Christian focus on intrinsic sin and salvation through the intercession of a third party.

Most religions are particularly dangerous when they are part of theocracies- we see that today with Islam, of course. But that isn’t really the fault of Islam, it’s the fault of people who can’t keep their religion and government separate.

Although nothing is likely to ever be as ethical as a humanist atheist society, I think a secular Islamic one is going to be better than a secular Christian one.

 If Christians are only concerned with salvation of others than I agree with you that they are missing a very large part of Christianity. The New Testament is filled with the obligations of Christians to help others while they are on Earth.  We are to feed to poor, clothe the naked, provide for orphans and widows, express true love for others, etc…  Christianity provides not only the path to eternal salvation, but blessings in this life as well. By putting Jesus first, it does not mean that we are to forget the here and now. In fact, it is just the opposite.  That is why you see so many Christian food banks, homeless shelters, hospitals, pro life organizations, etc. 

Eternal salvation in Christianity is built upon grace, not on our works or on what we deserve. Anything else would be immoral. For example, who would determine was was a good act, how many good acts does it take, how are bad acts determined (by whose standards- for example if I think abortion is murder but you don’t whose view counts).

That being said, to think that sinning in this life does not have its consequences, even for Christians is a misunderstanding.  It does. Just as living a Christian life has its blessings.

It’s funny how in these discussions atheists always talk about the effect of not believing as being eternal punishment without also acknowledging the effect of believing being eternal life. The effect of either is not temporal. You want the effect one way to go away becuase you thinking is unjust when in reality the scales are balanced.

One more comment. It is not saved for grace. It is saved by grace. A big difference.

Yes. A rather arbitrary preposition. Which doesn’t matter if one doesn’t believe in the concept of “grace” at all.

I think you have us confused with the Raelians.

Strangely, I’m more sad about past pets no longer being alive than I am about any people no longer living. Kind of wish there WAS a happy farm in the sky where they can go chase butterflies for eternity….but, oh well.

True. Buddhism is an atheist religion that believes in the afterlife of reincarnation.

I like how Dale McGowan dealt with this topic:
http://parentingbeyondbelief.com/blog/?p=336