Why I’m Not Quitting the Online Atheism Community

not even gonna invest a lot of time in this post. skimmed a couple of sentences. btdt, gosh i’ve read these sorts of screeds before. on just about every blog ever, in this short history of many “i write a blog! i’m important!”posts.

wanna go? there’s the door. and that’s the bitter truth, for folks who feel the need to write these diatribes it becomes really simple.

very few care, or remember you, years later, when you never come back. comments move on! and the world, as well. it still doesn’t end. even without your scintillating daily contribution to Why Marvel is Better Than DC, @ ForeverDood.com forums, or whatever.

i’m an adult. i sort of understand what, if any, comments “matter.”. but like this person, i still like to be silly, tho. no harm in that, even online. 😉

There is no atheist “community.” Or a black “community.” Or a Chinese “community.” Or a Christian “community.” So it’s not possible to find fault (or to agree) with any of them. Groups of people encompassing millions of members are too amorphous to be classified under some implied notion of groupthink.

To circle back to your apparent beef with online atheists, what community are you speaking of? What site? The folks who hang out at Pharyngula express themselves rather differently than the writers and commenters at Friendly Atheist. I just unsubscribed from ‘Working Class Atheists’ on Facebook because their complete lack of nuance began to get on my nerves. Reddit Atheism is also marred by lots of juvenile BS, unfortunately. By contrast, I often find Sam Harris’s site (and a few others) pretty philosophical and enlightening.

Atheists are just as varied in how they think and discuss as any other group that could jointly fill all the football stadiums in the U.S. No use in tarring everyone with the same brush.

What this means is that I will no longer be dragged into debates with theists who make a ludicrous claim, then base their evidence on the very book from which their ludicrous claim originates. There is no point in it…

They will continue to make their ludicrous claims, and we will continue to refute them. The alternative to that is censorship, which game Homey Don’t Play.
The minds of the cheap storytellers and the cheap spin doctors are forever stapled to cheap bronze age gabble. I can only pity them for their patent fear of broader understanding, and deride them for their intransigent unwillingness to upgrade their brains.

Sam Harris, philosophical?? That’s a new one. New Atheism has completely exhausted my patience. I’m done with it. If I’d wanted to spend my time belittling people for their perspectives on the existence of God, I’d have stayed a Christian fundamentalist. And there is a thriving streak of this mentality in online atheism. I don’t think it’s helpful to portray it as a fringe attitude–from what I’ve seen, it’s closer to mainstream.

One of the imaginary “questions” in his piece is “Your voice is needed, don’t stop doing this!” That doesn’t reek of self-importance at all!

Regarding your comment about many people being convinced to become atheists by another atheist:

While I certainly encountered plenty of atheist writings along the way, I can’t say any one event or person pushed me in this direction. I can’t even pinpoint the moment when I became an atheist. It just sort of happened by default. As I traveled through life I just started rejecting more and more of what I heard based on the notion that without any proof to back it up, I wasn’t going to swallow anything, much less turn around and try to convince someone else it was true. At some point belief without evidence just struck me as the most absurd path one could travel.

Leaving the Christianity that I’d been raised in was a painful experience, accompanied by a lot of fear. This event occurred at a young age (19) and was traumatic at the time. It was also followed by a lengthy period of dabbling in Eastern religious thought, actions that had more to do with trying to still my fears than with actually believing there was a truth there that couldn’t be found in Christianity. So eventually I abandoned that pursuit as well.

The fear subsided as time went on, while travel, reading, involvement with life itself…all of that and more just gradually brought me to a level of comfort in my own skin. I also became an evidence-based thinker, and this naturally lent itself to atheism. It was also in this decade of my life that I came to regard it that since I didn’t exist prior to birth, it was silly to think that some sort of afterlife awaited me beyond the grave. Once I realized that not existing prior to birth was in no way frightening, than nonexistence after death wasn’t scary either. So at some point in my thirties I settled on calling myself an atheist for lack of a better term. It wasn’t something special, it just made sense.

Looking back on it, it seems like a very natural progression. I’m glad it happened, I can’t imagine being a happy person if I was still trying to hold on to the beliefs I was raised in. I’d have to shut my brain down, and this wasn’t something I was willing to do.

I’d be curious to hear from others who became atheists more or less on the strength of their own thought processes and experiences rather than from being converted, so to speak. I suspect there’s quite a few of us out here.

lol

Here is something I have found…http://godisimaginary.com/

Religion = Ignorance

Many religious people hate technology, because it uses SCIENCE, so the religious people avoid the “Internet”.

Lol

xd

Good for you. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I think there’s a big difference between “there is no one who is Youer than You” and “look at me, I’m important!!!”

And I don’t see anyone calling him “worthless trash”. A nobody? Well, I’d never heard of him, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a nobody.

Wow, these insults…

Please stop replying to me.

Get out.

=D

You know, enlisting your fellow Nintendo game enthusiasts like Sorahearts (author of the “burn you” comment below) only makes you look more pathetic. ROTFL.

STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am being serious here.

@mrambler:disqus

Please stop.

I wasn’t “converted either. Too many questions asked of a frustrated priest only led me to further believe there were no answers. I was so young. Only 18 and I wanted answers no one seemed to be able to give. It was like loosing something valuable that I just couldn’t find. It turned out to be my faith. I was so angry! My parents had lied to me again! The first time they lied to me I was 6 years old. They said bad things about Black people. I knew they weren’t telling the truth because my best friend in first grade (I came to understand) was Black. She wasn’t any of the things my parents said. We ended up being friends throughout my first 6 years of school. Kinda of funny though I ended up happily married to an African American! Now I’m an Atheist to boot! My parents shouldn’t have lied. The priest shouldn’t have lied. They could have at least explained that they didn’t know the answers. It would have been better than the lies.

Same here – it took little doubts building up over years to finally crack my faith, but I couldn’t be happier.
Personally, when I comment on an interesting article at a Christian site, I have no intention of converting anyone. So many Christians have this impression that atheists are angry, hateful people, so my goal is to respectfully disagree while being an example of a person who is good without god.

Excellent post, Hemant. I found it quite odd that someone would seem to equate the atheist community with people who troll theists via social media. I rarely go out of my way to argue with theists, and I still consider myself a part of this community to some degree.

You’ve obviously never “listened” to Sam Harris. New Atheism isn’t new, it’s just intelligent and f..ing sick and tired of people in power believing in fairies and pregnant virgins, they have very dangerous toys at their disposal and it is imperative that reason prevails before it is too late. That’s why there is a sense of urgency that you may see as belittling, it is time to WAKE UP.

It’s ironic because as a theist, I feel the same way about ignorant atheists who base their arguments on generous helpings of goalpost shifting, non sequiturs, and outright hypocrisy.
But I don’t quit this community because there are plenty who “don’t” do that.
I suggest to Pribble that perhaps the seeds of his own frustration are planted in his own (narrow) mind. When you approach someone from the point of view that they are an idiot and you have all the answers, this usually means the conversation will go nowhere.
When an atheist informs me that my Christian beliefs absolutely must mean I oppose gay rights, I laugh at that atheist and find it difficult to take any of their other claims seriously. And if I explain to said atheist that one can be driven to fight for gay rights because of their Christianity, and they say “Well, that just means you’re following the Bible wrong”, then I will write that atheist as a moron and stop having a conversation.
If you approach someone like another human being like you, who has a reason for believing what they believe, and then ask questions, rather than dictate answers, the conversation tends to be much richer and beneficial, even if nobody changes position.

Axioms generally don’t apply to themselves.

In any case, I was talking about nihilism the phenomenon (the loss of all meaning and value), not nihilism the personal philosophy (we are permitted act as we choose because there is no meaning or value). The second, even if not technically self-swallowing, is IMO quite stupid, but the first is not stupid so much as dangerous.

Yeah, angry atheism hurts us all in my opinion. It’s easy to fall into, and I have myself more times than I’m happy to admit, but as my wife always says, you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

So let me get this straight. This is the rant that “kept pricking at ” [Alix] like “a borrowed conscience” (oh my) such that none of her arguments were “good enough to meet and match that artless rage”:

…how Catholics were all vile enablers of pedophiles, all complicit in abuse, all misogynistic, homophobic scum, all out to bring back the Inquisition.

Really? None of her arguments? Then, frankly, she’s an idiot.

Christians can be trolls. I wish it weren’t so, but there it is.

I dig your style as well. It is really good for there to be a believer around these parts like yourself who is in it for the give-and-take, rather than to score points. Too many people (of every metaphysical persuasion) go into conversations looking to “win” something, whereas the true prize is in the knowledge and understanding earned through honest struggle with challenging ideas presented by people who earnestly believe in them.

(singing) We are family!!! I got all my sisters with me!!!

BTW, what you’re looking for in your other comments is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcS3NOQnsQM

If you read the entire post, you’ll realize that ze’d been exposed to all the polite, logical arguments, but had been able to compartmentalize the debate as just not that important when hir arguments didn’t hold up. It took the artless rage of a not-entirely-accurate but very heartfelt post to make hir realize that this mattered, and that hir support of an institution that is misogynistic, homophobic, complicit in abuse, and pedophile-enabling really truly hurt people and really truly did make hir complicit, just a little bit, in the RCC’s crimes. Rage broke through the careful defensive barriers in Alix’s mind in a way that cool logic didn’t.

BTW, Alix is genderfluid and prefers gender neutral pronouns. There’s no easy way for you to know this, so I thought I’d let you know.

Ze clarified a bit later in comments- it wasn’t that Alix didn’t have any arguments come to mind, but ze realized that ze’d made those arguments before and been shot down before. If you give money to the hierarchy of the RCC, if you fill their pews and inflate their follower count and thus their influence, if you’re one of the silent followers- you are complicit. Period. There is no way for the laity to change the church because it’s a very hierarchical structure. The RCC has made it very clear that it doesn’t want to change and it isn’t going to listen- at this point the only ethical choice is to leave.

And yes, some of the harshest critics are people who chose to stay. But in staying, they said that they saw something worth saving in the RCC. Frankly, there isn’t. The institution is rotten to its core.

I’m sure he can, but I doubt he will. You’ve been making irrelevant, one-sentence, unconstructive assertions. Midnight Rambler replied with snark, because a link to godisimaginary.com doesn’t contribute much to a discussion about the online atheist community. You decided that Rambler must automatically be religious (and that religious = politically conservative = ignorant), though a quick scan of his previous comments (which is impossible for you, since your activity is private) turns up statements like “I consider myself an atheist” and “…how freeing it is just to not have even the relatively meaningless rituals of religion.” Rambler’s probably not religious.
Then, after Rambler rebuffed you, you called Rambler “ignorant”. Rambler, understandably ticked off, called you “stupid” and accused you of being stupid, young, drunk, and sleep-deprived. You asked your friends at “NintenScience” to “stop” Rambler, whom you called a “fail troll”. Rambler, again understandably, found this funny and called you “pathetic”. Your incredibly perspicacious, witty comeback was “STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”. (I count 34 explanation points.) Again, Rambler found this funny, and again, this was understandable. You then said “Please stop.” to Rambler, and I’m not even sure what that was meant to accomplish. Rambler made fun of you for this, at which time your friends from “NintenScience” started arriving to gang up on and threaten Rambler. In a theme that’s begun to surface, Rambler found this funny and replied with snark and a notification that he knows who’s threatening him.

Seriously? You’re both out of line to some degree, but if we’re banning one of you, I think I’d ban the one who makes irrelevant, unconstructive comments, attacks anyone who criticizes with insults that are obviously inaccurate, summons friends to gang up on and threaten anyone who criticizes, who quickly resorts to “STFU” , “please stop”, and “ban this person who disagrees with me”, and on top of that keeps his/her comment history private over the commenter who replies to the aforementioned commenter with snark and calls him/her stupid, young, drunk, and sleep-deprived after being called religious, politically conservative, and ignorant when that’s clearly inaccurate from his/her comment history.
TL;DR: I think you, TheScienceEnthusiast1130, deserve/warrant a ban far more than Midnight Rambler. You’re an excellent demonstration of some problems with the online atheist community.

Wow…what a trollish comment.

People like you are the reasons why religious people should NOT invade this website.

No one cares.

You can downvote me all you want, but you cannot face the fact that you lack “respect” for “atheists” like me.

And do NOT reply with a hateful comment.

I am quite sure that that the “local police” in your area would be happy to arrest you and lock you up in “jail”…

TrollAlert

the only ethical choice is to leave

Out in reality-land not all disaffected Catholics are going to leave. Many progressives stay and fight. They are good people who are devastated by the sex abuse scandals, and who support equality for women and gays in the church and out. A slight majority of Catholics voted for Obama in 2012 (and a greater majority in 2008), the pro-choice, pro-gay equality candidate, even though the bishops pulled out all the stops to elect Romney.

It would be easy for me to say “just walk,” as I did long ago over some of these issues, but I was already veering toward unbelief. These people are believers who could care less if atheists insist that leaving is the only ethical option.

I do appreciate Alix’s point that religion/unbelief is as much an emotional as a rational process. I wish I could say I philosophized my way out of the Catholic Church, but it was mostly due to skepticism of church authority and dislike of patriarchy. I have often wondered why women stay in a Church that devalues them.

Ok.

On what charges? Criticizing someone on the Internet?

I haven’t downvoted you once, and you can’t see who downvotes a comment.
Why do you keep putting words like “atheism”, “respect”, and “Christianity” in quotation marks when you’re not quoting?
I am an atheist. Again, you can tell from my comment history, which is public. The inaccurate insults begin to grate.
Tell me, where in my comment did I show disrespect for atheists and/or atheism? Really, I’d like to correct it ASAP, as that wasn’t my intent and doesn’t convey my actual feeling. And if this comment is deemed “hateful”, the above stands. Explain why it’s hateful so I can avoid making the same mistake in future.

How have I been disrespectful? Point out and explain the precise errors so that I may correct them, please.

Hardly. I read most articles here, I read the comments, and I chose to step in on the “TheScienceEnthusiast1130 vs. midnight rambler” argument/feud/conversation. I posted a comment summarizing said interaction and my take on it, encompassing only comments on this article and in the link Rambler provided as related to comments on this article. Stalking you would require that I reply to/read all your comments, which is made unfeasible by the fact that your comment history is private. I’m not sure how reading one conversation thread, summarizing it, and responding constitutes “stalking”.

Is… is this an atheism type ragequit? O_o Really?

“Most theists in the world are not completely delusional.” Citation needed.

It is a “Grand Theft Auto” reference.

Oooooookay… how is it relevant? What am I supposed to take away from this?

I’m more exasperated, irritated, and annoyed that you’re swamping the discussion than I am “angry”. At any rate, I’d think some anger is justified given that your responses to me have included: accusing me of stalking you, asking that I be banned, saying that my local police would be “glad” to arrest and jail me, claiming that I lack respect for “atheists like [you]”, claiming that my comments were disrespectful and trollish, claiming that I dislike the online atheist community, implying that my comments are hateful, and implying that I’m religious (not automatically an insult, but clearly false from my comment history). This sudden, mysterious peacemaking impulse is inexplicable to me. The questions expressed in my earlier comments still stand, as well as this: Why do you suddenly want to “make peace” with me?

Elaborate?

I’m asking TheScienceEnthusiast1130 to go into detail/explain, because I honestly don’t know what his/her/their “???” was directed at, exactly.

Yeah, these online racing sim enthusiasts at least have something in common. Whatever you do, don’t go on a thread discussing the pros and cons of Windows vs Mac.

What?