Louisiana Republican: When I Voted for State Funds to go to Religious Schools, I Didn’t Mean Muslim Ones

In Louisiana, Republican Governor Bobby Jindal pushed for a voucher program that would allow state funds to be used to pay for religious schools. It’s unconstitutional, it’s a way to use taxpayer money to fund someone’s faith, and it was a bad idea to begin with.

But it passed.

Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!

Rep. Valarie Hodges, R-Watson, says she had no idea that Gov. Bobby Jindal’s overhaul of the state’s educational system might mean taxpayer support of Muslim schools.

“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

“Unfortunately it will not be limited to the Founders’ religion,” Hodges said. “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools. There are a thousand Muslim schools that have sprung up recently. I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.

Wait, we’re teaching the “Founders’ religion”? I can’t wait to see those Deistic schools popping up everywhere…

I can’t decide whether the staffers at Americans United are collectively rolling their eyes or shaking their heads in disbelief, but they’re right to suggest “We told you so”:

Where to begin? Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles. Of course Muslim schools will qualify for funding under a voucher plan. When programs like this are set up that dole out benefits to religious schools, the government can’t play favorites. That’s basic.

Some legislators aren’t comfortable funding Muslim schools. What’s to be done? How about not establishing these programs in the first place? Let Muslims fund Muslim schools. Let Catholics fund Catholics ones. Let fundamentalist Protestants pay for the conservative Christian academies and so on.

Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith. Everyone else can fend for themselves.

Message to Rep. Hodges: Your Christian privilege is showing.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jesus-Chrystler/1797838676 Jesus Chrystler

    We also need to ensure that it does not open the door to fund radical Christian schools.  Oh wait, she doesn’t care about that.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Could not disagree with her more.  Freedom if religion means freedom for all religions, including Islam.  So if there is going to be a voucher system for private schools, it would need to include Muslim schools as well.

    As for the idea that the founding fathers were deists, that is revisionist history and simply not true. There were 56 signers of the Declaration of  Independence, and almost thirty of them were seminary graduates from Christian seminaries.  Even Thomas Jefferson and George Washington whoa re touted as deists were in fact devout Christians.  Their original writings show that to be the case as well as their actions and the opinions of their contemporaries who worked and lived with them.

    It is simply atheist and revionist history to try and contend they were not Christians. 

    • http://yetanotheratheist.com/ TerranRich

      Hey, at least you’re not totally ignorant about the Constitution. Being a lawyer, I would hope that would be the case.

      As for the founding fathers’ religion… read Thomas Paine’s Age of Reason and tell me they were “almost all” Christians. Most of them were deists, and the evidence is abundant.

      References:
      http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Deism_in_the_United_States
      http://citizentom.com/2008/09/10/deism-and-the-founding-fathers/

      • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

        I personally think it’s all a bit of a red herring.   The Constitution isn’t deist, or Christian, or atheist, or Teapotist.  It’s secular.

        p.s. we don’t actually know that he is a lawyer. S/he could be a secretary in a law office. Or a kid in his parents’ basement. As could we all of course. But to my knowledge RW has never even stated his/her law background.

        • Rwlawoffice

           Very successful practicing lawyer for over 20 years.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=607239319 facebook-607239319

          It does not matter what our forefathers personally believed. Jefferson would let us all know that it is none of our business (wish politicians today had that attitude) what matters is that they knew our laws needed to be secular and our Constitution Godless. This is how the country was designed and if they were all Satanists it would not matter. They knew how to separate things. It’s a shame politicians have only regressed.

      • Rwlawoffice

         TerranRich,

        The fact that the founding fathers were Christian is based upon their writings, their actions, and the thoughts of those that knew them. There are over 200 men that signed our founding documents. of the 56 that signed the declaration, over 25 were seminary graduates. It is simply not true to say that they weren’t Christian.   

        • Isilzha

           As always, lying for jebus is A-OK!

        • snessnyc

          They were seminarians because seminaries were the higher education of the day. That does NOT (Emphatically, does NOT) mean that they were Christian. Will you now tell me that  they were Jewish because they all knew Hebrew (they mostly did) or that they were Catholic because they knew Latin (they mostly did that, too).

          Why are so many Christian Fundamentalists so aggressively ignorant?

        • MissNormaDesmond

           Is this supposed to be logical?  It’s obviously not true to say that none of them were Christians, but nobody is saying that.  It’s equally false to say they all were.  Some were, some weren’t.  Of the more prominent figures known to most Americans, many if not most were Deists.

    • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

      Jefferson was most certainly a deist- for all practical purposes, an atheist. To suggest he was a “devout Christian” is the height of absurdity, since he made it clear in numerous writings that he was not a Christian, had little respect for Christianity (even outright contempt), and did not consider Jesus to be a deity. The most influential founding fathers- Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Franklin, Madison, Monroe- were all deists to a greater or lesser degree. Many were openly hostile to Christianity.

      The revisionism comes in trying to pretend that our principle founders were Christian, or even more extreme, that the country was founded on any sort of Christian principles, when in fact it was consciously based around anti-Christian ideas.

      • Dan

        Well, John Adams was a Unitarian, who didnt believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was eternal, so he wasn’t a traditional Christian, but I wouldn’t realy call him a deist.

        • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

          I don’t think the church these people associated with tells us much. That is better found in their writings, and Adams was certainly quite critical about many Christian ideas. He also espoused many deist views. You do see a trend towards stronger deism as he got older… not surprising given his early Puritan upbringing and later association with influential deists.

          Of course, a single word like “deist” can’t fully describe a person’s beliefs. While I’d consider Jefferson to be an atheist by modern standards, Adams clearly retained elements of his Christian upbringing. I’d not call him a Christian, but if that’s the word we use, it has to be understood to be very different than the sort of Christianity revisionists like RW would attribute to him.

          • Dan

            I agree it is dangerous to just label people based on their Church attendance, Jefferson and Washington went to Epicospalian churches (irregularly). I wouldnt call either a Christian (Jefferson absolutely wasn’t) but I do think it is better to call Adams a Unitarian Christian and explicitly say he didn’t think Jesus was eternally Divine than label him a Deist, because if you look at what he wrote about religion it is more in line with the unorthodox Unitarians than most Deists.

          • MissNormaDesmond

             It’s nice that you’d consider him to be that, but it doesn’t make it particularly accurate.  You’re not much more palatable than RW, you’re just a different flavor of the same thing: “What I believe matters more than any mere facts.”

      • http://www.facebook.com/leigh.williams.austin Leigh Williams

        Not quite true that Jefferson had contempt for Christianity.  For the religious organizations of his day, surely (cf. Madison for equal contempt for organized religion).  But Jefferson did like the teachings of Christ, about which he said in a letter to John Adams in 1813:  “We must reduce our volume to the simple evangelists, select, even from them, the very words only of Jesus, paring off the amphibologisms into which they have been led, by forgetting often, or not understanding, what had fallen from him, by giving their own misconceptions as his dicta, and expressing unintelligibly for others what they had not understood themselves. There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man. I have performed this operation for my own use, by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter which is evidently his, and which is as easily distinguishable as diamonds in a dunghill. ”

        But given that he outright rejected the miracles and the divinity of Jesus, he can in no way be counted as an orthodox Christian.

      • Rwlawoffice

         Point out these writings.  Did you know that Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society that was dedicated to delivering the Bible to all parts of the colony of Virgina? That the University of Virgina founded by Jefferson had a chaplain? That he funded one of the first english translation of the Septuagint bible for use in  America?  That the founding fathers broke from the convention at the request of  Franklin to hold three days of prayer and fasting? That Washington prayed daily on the battlefield? That letters from Adams continuously expressed his belief that the country was blessed by God? I could go on and on.

        There were over two hundred founding fathers those that signed the founding documents. You only focus on a few that you believe were less religious. 

        The truth is that the current trend is to  ignore this history because it doesn’t fit with the narrative.

        • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

          I’m not wasting my time trying to educate you. Read Jefferson’s writings for yourself.

          Do not confuse the degree of respect that Jefferson placed on certain traditions with his beliefs about Christianity. When this country formed, Christian institutions formed the foundation of much of its social structure.

          I focus on a few because most of those who signed the founding documents were hangers-on. They were not the handful of men responsible for the creation of those documents, and who insisted on the core anti-Christian ideals they embody.

          • Rwlawoffice

             Isn’t that convenient that you select who you view as the least Christian of the founding fathers to focus on and call the remaining over 200 simply hangers on.  Not only is that incorrect historically, it is disingenuous.

            And despite your notion that the founding documents are anti Christian, that is simply not correct, nor do the actions of our early government show that to be the case. 

            • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

              What “Christian principles” do you see in our founding documents?

              • Rwlawoffice

                 Asked you first.  You made the statement that the anti christian ideals in the founding documents. What are they?

                • Kevin Schmidt

                  You must not be a very good attorney to continue dwelling on strawman red herrings.

                  Regardless of the religions of our founding fathers, the Constitution is secular, and there is a First Amendment constitutional seperation between church and state.

                  Deal with it.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   Just responding to the historical distortions regarding the faith of our founding fathers.  Never did get into a discussion of the separation of church and state. As a lawyer I understand the arguments I get into and the ones I haven’t.

                • MissNormaDesmond

                   You know, nobody believes you about the attorney thing.  Just FYI.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Truth is ignored here all the time

                • TiltedHorizon

                  “Asked you first.”

                  This translates to “I don’t know.”

                • Rwlawoffice

                   Just trying to not allow an attempt at shifting the burden of proof.

                • TiltedHorizon

                  As you kept doing with the funding vs founding debate? :)

          • MissNormaDesmond

            I have read his writings, and I find your representation of them to be very little less distorted than that of the person you’re arguing with.

        • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

          Seeing as Jefferson was a proper Christian and all, I suppose you would have no objection to Christian churches adopting his revision of the Bible as canon? The version with all the miracles taken out because they were obviously bullshit? 

          I mean if Great Britain uses the KJV we may as well use a translation made by one of our great men! 

          • Kevin Schmidt

            Does anyone know if Jefferson’s black slave mistress and the children he had with her were Christians?

            • Rwlawoffice

               You do know this was retracted by the author of the article when the dna tests proved that he could not be the father.

          • Rwlawoffice

            Jefferson was a full supporter of the entire bible. He did enjoy the moral teachings of Jesus and cut them out in an abridged version for his own use and that he passednputnto new members of congress but it is simply modern revisionism to saybthatbthis means he did not believe the entire bible

            • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

              Maybe it’s the fact that he said the authors of the gospels and Paul were corrupters of Christianity that might have given us that impression.

        • TiltedHorizon

           “Did you know that Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society that was dedicated to delivering the Bible to all parts of the colony of Virgina?”

          The “Bible Society of Virginia” was founded in 1813 in
          Richmond. Thirteen men were designated to serve as
          the inaugural managers in 1813: Reverend John Buchanan (president), Reverend John D. Blair (vice-president), Reverend Jacob Grigg (vice-president), Reverend Jacob H. Rice (corresponding secretary), William Munford (recording secretary), Samuel Greenhow (treasurer), Archibald Blair, William Mayo, Robert Quarles, George Watt, Reverend John Bryce, William Fenwick, and Alexander M’Rae. Does anyone else notice Jefferson’s name is missing?

          “That the University of Virgina founded by Jefferson had a chaplain?”

          Odd, the only source I can find which supports you are quotes from David Barton, an evangelical Christian minister, who coincidentally is also the source for “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society”. All other historical sources I find indicate both facts are incorrect.

          Septuagint bible, David Barton again. I am seeing a pattern. It seems you think David Barton’s conclusions, which are not supported or echoed by historians, is somehow credible solely on the basis of his say so. You may want to close your zipper, your bias is showing.

          • Rwlawoffice

             Funny how you forgot the rest of the article that you are quoting from where is says that Jefferson funded and their work and supported it.

            Before you blindly accept the secular historians view that Barton is wrong, why don’t you read the actual historical documents that he uses to support his views?  I am basing my thoughts not on what he says, but upon my review of the source documents.

            • TiltedHorizon

              “Before you blindly accept the secular historian(s) view that Barton is wrong”

              By “secular historian view” you mean the “majority”,I’m sure you know what word means, adherents like you use it all the time to evidence the mind share Christianity owns. Funny how a “majority” only matters when used in terms of religion.

              As for the “rest of the article”, which one are you talking about, I used three unrelated sources to limit likelihood of potential bias. While you used only one: David Barton.

              • Rwlawoffice

                 I am sure that you would agree that majority view by itself does not make it right.  Since you did not cite your articles, I cannot refer to the ones you specifically relied upon, however, your comment is contained in several articles. If they did not also include the fact that Jefferson funded the society and supported their mission , then I would say they are incomplete at best.

                My information does not come from David Barton, but from the actual documents themselves. In fact, this particular information comes from the Monticello organization where they quote Jefferson’s response to the request for assistance.  it is here:
                http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/bible-society-virginia

                • TiltedHorizon

                  This is one of the sites I used. Now please cite where your claim, “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society” is listed. I did not include Jefferson’s $50 donation (approx 500 when adjusted for inflation) because “Funding” does not equate with “Founding” which is your claim. The only claim of “founding” comes from David Barton which means you took this ‘fact’ at his word. What new line in the sand will you draw now?

                • Rwlawoffice

                   Sorry I did not see where you cited your source in this latest post. But I am happy to see that you acknowledge but intentionally left out the portion of your source that showed that Jefferson funded and supported the Virgina Bible Society. The article  also says that the 13 members you identified were the initial managers of that organization, not the founders. So we have a situation where we know that Jefferson supported the mission and funded it but was not an initial manager.  If you want to say that this means he didn’t help found it that is your right. 

                • TiltedHorizon

                  The “This” in my reply was a reference to the site you provided. Speaking of “intentionally”, you keep avoiding my direct question. Please cite where your claim, “Jefferson founded the Virginia Bible society” is listed.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   My claim came from the Monticello.org that he funded and supported it.  I interpret that as helping found it, regardless of if he was an initial manager. The point is he clearly would not have done that in the event he hated the Bible as has been implied.

                • TiltedHorizon

                  Lets not mix words, you stated that he “founded” it. And since every point you parroted has been sourced to David Barton, it can then be assumed he is your only source.

                  “The point is he clearly would not have done that in the event he hated the Bible as has been implied”

                  Not implied by me anywhere. Since we are dealing with historical facts, there are no facts showing anything other than a one time donation to the Virginia Bible Society so it seems his “support” had a shelf life. Your arguments, made to others here, indicates his actions identify him as Christian. That is just wishful projecting on your part, as someone who donates time and money to charity, as a Foster Parent, I am “Christian” on paper, you simple have to ignore my writings.

                • Kevin Schmidt

                   More off topic nonsense.

                  The US is a sectarian country, even if our founding fathers were devout Christians or pot smoking, sex slave owning, Indian killing, colony exploiting wealthy white men, which they were.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   This is in response to your last post, not this one. Too narrow below.  If you want to talk about ignoring writings, I see that you have ignored Jefferson saying he was a Christian in multiple writings (including those that he signed “in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ””. His other actions to support this claim include his helping found he Virgina Bible Society, (even if that help came in the form of money and support as he wrote in his letter).  I also notice that you have not answered the other claims of his support for and claim of Christianity.

                • TiltedHorizon

                  I hate the narrowing, thank you for continuing this elsewhere.

                  FYI: The “in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ” argument is yet another David Barton assertion. You really do need another source.

                  Terms like “In the year of the Lord”, “in the year of our Lord”, and “In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ” are all variants of the Latin “Anno Domini” as in “1819 A.D.” were part of the common language and were not assertions of faith.

                  So no, he did not “sign in the year of our Lord Jesus Christ”, he signed the date and signed his name, the “in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ” was PREprinted as part of the date format, not signed, as can be seen here:

                  http://wthrockmorton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/jeffersinITYOOLC1.jpg

                  As for Jefferson’s “support for and claim of Christianity” I have posted other replies to you with his own words on the subject. To those I’ll add this one:

                  In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819 in the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ(I guess I’m Christian now), he wrote…

                  “You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.”

                  A sect by myself; what an odd christian thing to say.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  You as well as throckmorton confuse Jefferson’s objections to organized religion with him not being a Christian. In fact the other quotes I gave you were written by him in response to it hose who contended that he was not a Christian. As for his signing under the phrase in the year of our lord Jesus Christ, throckmorton says what you have stated, that this was a common phrase and part of the sea letter treaty with the unsupported assertion that Jefferson could not change that language. There is nothing that I have seen that says that a president was forced to use the form without the ability to change it. This was not the onlyo document signed this way and if Jefferson was not a Christian he surely could have changed them. Further and more importantly when he was being accused of not being a Christian by his contemporaries he denied it not onlyo did one not say I am a diest, he said he was a christian.

                • TiltedHorizon

                  So anyone who does not agree with you and Barton is confused. Talk about blind faith….

                  First you stated Jefferson founded the Bible Society, which is obviously false. You reply by claiming I’m blinded by secular sources then pull another Barton falsehood with “Jefferson signed ‘In the Year of Our Lord Jesus Christ’ ” as proof of his Christianity. I then evidence this as part of a standard document AND I found a Christian source. To which you state we are both confused and Jefferson could have changed the document, as if it makes any sense. Again, it’s common language, not an assertion of faith, there is no need to change it. If you look at treaty there are two forms, both use the same common language:

                  http://books.google.com/books?ei=S-CuTaqsIYX00gH5huGvCw&ct=result&dq=%22in+the+year+of+our+lord+christ%22&q=in+the+year+of+our+lord+christ&pg=PA354&id=5o8DAAAAQAAJ#v=onepage&q&f=true

                  There are also hundreds of hits on Google Books which display evidence of common use: http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22in+the+year+of+our+lord+christ%22&btnG=

                  “Further and more importantly when he was being accused of not being a Christian by his contemporaries he denied it not onlyo did one not say I am a diest, he said he was a christian.”

                  Deism = Christian. The same way Catholicism = Christian, Mormon, Evangelical, Angelical, Jesuit, Lutheran, ETC, all count themselves as Christian. Read more what make Deism different here: http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm

            • Kriswager

               Are you seriously trying to base your arguments on the pseudo-historian Barton?

              • TiltedHorizon

                 Despite his claim to the contrary,  his avoidance in answering my question on Jefferson’s “founding” seems to indicate he has no evidence outside of Barton to support it. Instead he has decided to dodge the issue entirely by refocusing on donations as if funding means founding.

      • Rwlawoffice

         You are engaging in the historical error of modernizing the actions of an historical figure.  Using modern thoughts to interpret what they said and did.  There is absolutely no indication that Jefferson was an atheist. Jefferson’s hostility was to organized religion, not Christianity or the teachings of Christ. In fact he supported missionaries to teach the Gospels of Christ, including what has been referred to as the Jefferson bible. This was a shorthand version of the gospels specifically designed to teach the gospels of Christ to the Indians. That is the title of the book itself.

        To say that the founding fathers built this country on anti Christian ideas is the flat wrong. you need to read the transcripts of the constitutional convention for the speeches they gave. For example, Benjamin Franklin called for a break of three days for the purpose of pray and imploring God to help them in their meetings.  “I therefore beg leave to move that
        henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on
        our deliberations be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to
        business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate
        in that service.” Franklin

        John Adams stated: “[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish
        the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of
        a free constitution is pure virtue.” Letter to Zabidal Adams 1776

        Benjamin Rush: “We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only
        means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that
        is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by
        the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that
        equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal
        virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.” Rush essays 1806

        • Isilzha

          I really don’t care what the actual religious beliefs of the founding fathers actually were.  It doesn’t really matter.  It’s our world now and we’ve changed many things about for the better since they were alive. 

          (Dude, they didn’t have computers, cars, or space travel either…get the frak OVER yourself)

        • amycas

          ” …including what has been referred to as the Jefferson bible. This was a
          shorthand version of the gospels specifically designed to teach the
          gospels of Christ to the Indians. That is the title of the book itself.”

          Actually the formal title of the work was: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth

          The 1804 version, with which he expressed displeasure included a subtitle about Indians, but the full version published later did not include that in the title.

          While his reasons for writing this abridged New Testament can be disputed, the title of the final version does not include anything about teaching Christ to Native Americans (or Indians, as he would have called them).

          • Rwlawoffice

            There were two of these. One in 1804 with the title that included their use for preaching the gospel to the Indians and one in 1820 without that title. The later one does not discount or replace the first one.

        • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

          Who said that the Constitution was built on “anti-Christian” ideas? Secular ≠ anti-Christian.

          Although I would love to hear your case for why the First Amendment and the First Commandment are so utterly opposed to each other…

      • MissNormaDesmond

        Please, try making sense sometime.  To be a Deist is very obviously not to be an atheist, it’s just not being a Christian.  Man, dogma to the left of me, dogma to the right of me, volleyed and thundered…

    • Hockey Bob S.

       WARNING! WARNING!

      David Barton fanboi alert!!!

      rwlawoffice – you’re flat out wrong, and so is your christian revisionist tool, David Barton.
      Barton is no more a historian than Miley Cyrus is a guest soprano at the Metropolitan Opera.

      • Rwlawoffice

         Hockey Bob,

        You are wrong.  You have drank the revisionist kool- aid.  Look at the original documents and who the founding fathers were.  When you do that you will see the truth.  I have seen their writings and what others sere saying about them at the time.  As opposed to current academics who want to change history. 

        Understand that i am not saying that the founding fathers built a Christian nation, what I am saying is that they were devout Christians.  they were not deists as Hemant and others claim.  that is simply flat out wrong.

        • Djmcculley

          A few of the founders were devout Christians, like Samual Adams, John Jay, and Patrick Henry (who was against the ratification of the Constituition). But most of the big names were deists (Franklin, Hamilton, Monroe, Allen, Madison, Paine) or were very liberal “Christians” who didn’t accept that Jesus was divine (For example John Adams). Washigton was too secretive to say for sure, but it seems to me that he was probably a theist of some kind, but it is impossible to honestly call him a devout Christian (much less an orthodox Christian).

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6OE7LEYELE4MZTVXGZUSVTBFUI julie

          “Lighthouses are more useful than churches.” – Benjamin Franklin 

          “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it.” – John Adams 

          “Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.” – Thomas Jefferson 

          Yes, those guys definitely sound like devout Christians to me.

          • Dan

            I’d avoid using the John Adams quote, it’s a quote mine. In context Adams is disagreeing with that view of religion.

        • NickDB

           I think we’re all avoiding the real question here, if they were Christians, were they True Christians?

          • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

            Oh that’s worth a shiny new internet for sure!

            only slightly related, over on WND one person was trumpeting that 78% of Americans are Christian.  While someone else was claiming that a True Christian would never have an abortion.  Which left me with the napkin calculation that the country is actually at most 57% True Christian.

        • phantomreader42

           David Barton is not a historian, he is a fraud.  He lies for money.  You, Rwlawoffice, are the one who has guzzled the revisionist kool-aid that lying sack of shit Barton sells by the gallon. 

          This is not a christian nation.  It never has been.  Anyone who says it is is an idiot and a liar.  Anyone who tries to turn it into one is a traitor.  David Barton is a stupid, lying thieving traitor. 

    • LesterBallard

      I bet you’d kiss David Barton’s ass 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

      • Reginald Selkirk

         kiss or kick?

    • BurningStarIV

       Even the fundies disagree with you on Jefferson:
      http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/thomas_jefferson.htm

    • Wildlifeguy

      Article 11 of the 1797 treaty of Tripoli clearly states through an Act of Congress, AS  A GROUP, clearly defines what our country was NOT founded upon. Is there any Law or Treaty, or Act of Congress, from the years of our founding that contradicts this Precedent? If not, we must go by what the founders actually used to govern as our source for their ideas about what kind of Nation we were and should be.

      • Rwlawoffice

          Where does the Treaty of Tripoli say that the founding fathers were deists?

        • curtst

          It doesn’t, but it does specifically say that the US isn’t a Christian nation.

          • 3lemenope

            If you want to tie the two together, it’s important to point out that nobody prominent objected to that language in the Treaty of Tripoli. If the founders were so intent on the US being understood as Christian, the silence there is peculiar to say the least. If I’m not mistaken, it was also ratified without dissent in the Senate and signed by Adams himself.

          • Kevin Schmidt

             Where does “it” say the word “Christian”? I can only find where it says “religion”.

          • Rwlawoffice

            I’m not contending that the us was founded to be a Christian nation in the sense of a theocracy. I am saying that the founding fathers were Christians. So the treaty of tripoli is irrelevant to this discussion. With that in mind however this treaty should be put in its proper context. The reference was to assure the other party to the treaty that we were not at war with them because religious reasons like the European countries that were theocracies and religiously opposed to Muslims. It was not meant for any other reason.

    • Dan

      RWlawoffice, you might want to do a little more study on the issue. Considering that the only colleges in America at the time were Christian it is very misleading to imply that anyone who went there must have been a devout Christian. That would be like me saying that everyone who has graduated from Georgetown is a conservative Catholic, or that anyone who goes to Baylor is forevermore a Southern Baptist. I went to the fundamentalist Bob Jones University for a year and I’m an atheist.

      It really is strange to claim that Jefferson was a devout Christian, it just shows you haven’t studied him much at all. Christian revisionist historians like to quote-mine him as saying that he considered himself a Christian, leaving out the part were he says he is a Christian in the only sense that anyone should be, which is respecting Jesus as a human who was a good moral teacher. Washington is harder to peg, because he was extremely secretive about his religious beliefs. I read a whole book by a couple Catholics trying hard to prove that he was a Christian, but there logic was really strained (like them ending the book by implying that since Washington was very moral and “by their fruits you shall know them” then he was probably a Christian). Communion is a huge part of the Episcopalian Church and while Washington’s wife would usually stay for it Washigton always left before communion. There is some evidence that Wahington did pray, but it is absolutely unclear to me whether he was liberal Christian or just on the border between a general theism and deism. Even if he was a Christian perhaps he was like John Adams (the most obviously Christian of the first five presidents) who didn’t believe in the Trinity or that Jesus was eternally divine. You might want to read John Fee’s book on the founders, he is a history teacher at an Evangelical Christian college and can clarify many of your confusions on this issue (he also has a blog).

      I apologize in advance for spelling and grammar errors in this post. I wrote it on my iPhone, which usually doesn’t work out optimally.

      • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

        In trying to understand Washington, it is interesting to consider the prayers he said (many of which are preserved in writing). His prayers were nearly all of thanksgiving, not supplication. He did not pray to Jesus, and rarely to God… most referred simply to “Providence”. So while they reflect a degree of theism, they look nothing like Christian prayers, then or now.

        • Dan

          Yes, it is hard to place Washington’s religious beliefs. I’ve read several biographies of him and even a couple books specifically about his religious beliefs, but I’m still unsure. He certainly seems closer to a deist than an orthodox Christian, but he also seems more theistic than Jefferson or Franklin. If I had to bet I’d probably say he was a non-Christian theist. How would you describe him if you had too?

          • http://www.facebook.com/gwydionfrost Daniel Parker

            Maybe he’s one of those fox-hole theists we hear so much about…? ;)

      • Isilzha

        Well, if Washington was secretive about his religious beliefs I really wish more xians today would follow the example of this founding father!

    • TiltedHorizon

      “And the day will come, when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the
      Supreme Being as His Father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed
      with the fable of the generation of Minerva, in the brain of Jupiter. ”

      Letter from Thomas Jefferson to John Adams
      April 11, 1823

       “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
      are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
      tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the
      existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of
      the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.  ”

      Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr
      August 10, 1787

      Clearly the writings of a devout Christian. Yep, atheists are the revisionists here.

    • Amendment100

      That’s why you find Jesus and the Bible and the Christian religion mentioned time and time again in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Treaty of Tripoli, etc, etc, etc…oh wait. Talk about revisionist history. You have no fucking clue do you?

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/P76OAMZWKTFY6SMOLNVKH7COLU TruthSayer

       I suppose you would need to actually define ‘christian’ to determine is someone was one,  and no one has yet done that to the satisfaction of all ‘christians.’  Yet, if you did not  believe in the divinity of christ, it is difficult to believe you were a devout christian (I’m not sure what a non-devout christian is though).  Perhaps the jefferson bible is a good example of liking good things and discarding BS.

    • MissNormaDesmond

       No, revising history would be making them Christian.  Isn’t bearing false witness supposed to be a bad thing for you guys?  Because you’re telling a flat lie.  http://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/jeffersons-religious-beliefs

    • Menotyou

      You know that Thomas Jefferson, re-wrote the new testament and took out the divinity of Jesus Christ (it’s known as the Jefferson Bible).

    • Nox

      Who has said that all the founders were deists?

      Thomas Jefferson may not have used the word “deist” to describe himself, but he did describe some of his beliefs. They were consistent with deism, and entirely inconsistent with christianity. To claim him as a christian is simply revisionist history.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/James-Buchy/542338898 James Buchy

    No big deal here in Canada. In Alberta, Catholic and Muslim schools get public funding too, along with public schools. They all must stick to the Province of Alberta education standards.

    • Emb

      Canada has so much going for itself !

      • Brcnv

        It actually goes further up here in Canada.  In Ontario the catholic schools must have gay straight alliances that public schools have because they receive public funding.  The church absolutely hates it but they want the free taxpayer money that they’ve been sucking off the Governement teat for decades.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/N6QKZPP2KFS3JWCE7WE6SCQG24 Clowndro

          That sounds like the same issue being fought over here in the US by the Catholic church re: forcing them to provide contraceptive services.  The difference is, the church is winning the battle down here, thus having their cake and eating it too (i.e. getting government money without adhering to government rules for receiving it).

        • MarkNS

           They don’t “have to have” gay straight alliances. They just have to allow them if the students want to start one.

    • The Vicar

      That might work in Canada. But in Louisiana? After the last 50 years of Republican dominance in the southern U.S., I think the education standards run, in toto, like this: “them children better lern ta speak good, an’ what th’heck, better lern ‘em some ritin’ an’ nummers too. An’ b’fore they grajamatate, they better lern not to spit in church.”

      • Mystical Potato Head..

        They only need to be learnin’ three letter, US and A!

        • Patterrssonn

          Graduating exam

          1. SAU

          2. ASU

          3. SUA

          4. USA

          5. UAS

          6. All of the above

      • http://twitter.com/openib Guy Fawkes

        Hey u done sounds like one them thar comunistes. How dares use insults God’s kountyr!

        • phoenixmomma

           Made me laugh..

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

        “them children better lern ta speak good, an’ what th’heck, better lern ‘em some ritin’ an’ nummers too. An’ b’fore they grajamatate, they better lern not to spit in church.”

        Is it sad that I was able to read that without missing a beat?

      • mom2pekes2

        Your reply sir was priceless! Please, let us not forget the barefoot and pregnant concept of the old south.

      • sumguy

        It’s not “grajamatata” it’s “grajeeate”. lol

    • Stev84

      In the US, those schools don’t have to follow any standard though. They can basically do whatever they want. A lot of them are outright scams that just steal the money without providing any valuable service:

      http://www.au.org/blogs/wall-of-separation/schools-for-scandal-fla-voucher-program-proves-a-boon-to-con-artists

    • http://www.facebook.com/maxxdelusional Dave Natalie

      While I don’t agree with state funded religious schools, at least in Canada, the religious schools are held to a standard set by the government. 

    • Hellcat

       It is a big deal. In Ontario Catholic schools get funding. It’s wrong.We have separation of church and state. If you wish to educate your children in a religious school…you should pay for it. It is the very least we can ask that they at least adhere to some basic guidelines before we release them into the wild after grad.

      • http://sheps.myopenid.com/ sh3ps

        You do pay for it. You report on your taxes which school system your kids attend, and that’s where your dollars go. And, unfortunately, the Catholic school system is enshrined in Ontario’s constitution, so we don’t have a separation of Church and State (though I agree we should!).

  • Kevin S.

    I disagree that it’s automatically unconstitutional for the state to (essentially) contract religious institutions to provide services. We’ve seen it happen plenty of times. The state simply needs to require the schools follow certain behaviors if they want to redeem the vouchers, just like it requires Catholic Charities not to discriminate when it takes state money to provide adoption services. Don’t want to play by the state’s rules? Don’t take the state’s money. I understand that in Louisiana’s case that’s not how the voucher law was set up, but there’s no good reason it can’t be.

  • http://www.bricewgilbert.blogspot.com Brice Gilbert

    Her thinking is quiet clear. If you take it from our side we want schools and the government to be about solid science and factual ideas. We don’t want creationism in our education not just because it’s religious, but because it’s bullshit. School is about educating people with things we “know”. So it makes sense for her to say she wants the government to fund Christianity. An ideology she sees as the end all be all American value system. Christianity to her is just another word for truth, history,  justice, morality etc. She probably hasn’t met a single atheist or Muslim in her life.  She’s wrong of course, but I understand why someone would do this beyond just bigotry.

  • http://www.allourlives.org/ TooManyJens

    Fucking idiot.

    I’m sorry, that’s all I’ve got.

    • http://twitter.com/openib Guy Fawkes

      Sums it up.

    • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

      Fucking idiot.

      And what does that say about her electors?

      • Sammyk

        Fucking idiots. 

        • Mitt21

          Fucking Republicans!

        • Black Addah

          Seems Legit….

      • http://twitter.com/arjaizen Bob Moynihan

         It’s Louisiana… ’nuff said.

        No offense intended to the minority of Louisiana citizens that are capable of rational thought.

        • Urciolo

          Don’t kid yourself, Bob – there are people like this in all 50 states. Having lived in 7 of them and three different countries outside the US, I have learned two things – (1) the U.S. is probably the greatest country in the world (at least it’s the best of the four I’ve lived in) and (2) there are idiots in every country and culture.

          • Justin

            seventh in literacy. Twenty-seventh in math. Twenty-second in science. Forty-ninth in life expectancy. A hundred and seventy-eighth in infant mortality. Third in median household income. Number four in labor force and number four in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies.
            greatest country in the world.

            wake up, kid.

            • Chrisdavies1220

               you see I don’t think you get that what he is talking about isn’t numbers if you are going by numbers it is indeed not the best but that isn’t where his opinion is coming from I believe

              • Isilzha

                Just because YOU think it’s the greatest place in the world to live doesn’t actually make it the best country in the world.  I think we have an atrocious justice system in the US.  We also have plenty of people in this “great” country who actually support prison rape as part of the prisoner’s punishment.  Are there worse systems, of course, but it’s very sad to compare ours to places like North Korea and Iran.

            • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

              So best Korea is best place to live then?

              • Justin

                yes. take the most absurd extreme example as the other option.

                • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

                  Best Korea does not agree with you.

              • Helgeandshuset

                 North Korea? he he he

            • ForNein

              Are you trying to pass off a quote from a TV show as your own?

              • Justin

                of course not. clearly ubiquitous enough that it’s not really necessary, but sorry, yes – that’s a quote. but you all knew that. 

                • Isilzha

                   No one can watch all the TV programs that have ever been produced.  I don’t even know which TV show you’re talking about (yes, I could google, but why waste my time).

            • Anon

               To be fair, you don’t know how he is rating greatness as he did not define it, also he poster did specify that it only included other countries they had lived in.

            • Bryan

              I agree with you, but at least put quotation marks if you’re going to steal from Aaron Sorkin.

              • Isilzha

                who?

            • NewsRoom

              Good show.

            • Arandir Nova

              Uhm… A hundred and seventy-eigth in infant mortality. I’d say thats way better than first. Just saying…

              • http://www.facebook.com/people/Walt-Smith/1104020766 Walt Smith

                We’re so low ranked in infant mortality because in the USA if the infant has or was thought to have a heartbeat when the mother went into labor, it’s counted as a baby for infant mortality statistics – even if it’s so premature that other countries would have called it a miscarriage.  In many countries, even first world ones, infants who die in labor or even hours or days later are listed as stillbirths or miscarriages, and thus affect neither infant mortality rates nor average lifespan.

                • Scutter123

                  I think you missed the part where ‘Arandir Nova’ was actually too stupid to know that the top of the infant mortality rate was not a desired image to portray.

                • balzac

                  I am fairly certain he was pointing out that it was a cumbersome phrase that, when taken literally, seemed like a decent thing. It’s not funny when you have to explain the joke.

              • Brooke Hanna

                That data wasn’t even correct.  According to the CIA World Factbook for 2011 (the latest data available), the US was 174th, not 178th, out of a list of 222 countries.  Flip that around, and that means we were the 48th worst in the world for infant mortality.  That’s not good at all.  We just barely beat Croatia by 0.08 percentage points.  Cuba was nine spots ahead of us on the list.  Out of all the developed nations in the world, the US is the worst.  Twenty years ago, the US used to be ranked around 28th.  It gets worse every year.

            • AdultsAreTalking

              Because it’s hard to just list the one’s America isn’t number one in, right? 

              And he said he thought it was the greatest, not stating it like a fact.

              Looks like you need to grow up, child.

            • Stev84

              Where did you get that infant mortality number? The US is certainly bad there compared to other western countries, but 178th would make it one of the worst countries in the world.

              The CIA Fact Book places it at 49th. Below western Europe, Cuba, Israel, Japan and South Korea, but above most of eastern Europe.

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                A factor in the USA’s abysmal infant mortality rate is that we try to save premature babies that other countries don’t.  So some of our infant moralities would count as miscarriages elsewhere.  There’s a lot of health care we don’t do well, but premature babies is one we actually do very well.

            • Xil

               When people say America is the greatest country in the world, they say it because of the amount of freedom people have. Go to Europe, try to start your own business, it’s a nightmare in comparison. In Germany I can’t even cut down a tree on my own property without first getting permission from the town.

              • EricHammer

                 There are plenty of places in America with the same rule, depending on the height of the tree

              • McKulty

                I can’t cut down a tree without a permit and I’m in the Republican Deep South.

              • Rbnlegen101

                I would need a permit from my county and approval from my HOA, here in VA.

              • Isilzha

                Well, in the US we’ve given much of the power and our freedoms over to corporations.  Many property owners can’t cut down trees on their property without getting the permission of the Home Owner’s Association first.  Some people have had their homes stolen from them by HOAs for very petty offenses (usually just not kowtowing enough to the people in power).

            • Animal63

              Jeff Daniels’ character in “The Newsroom” nailed it dead center there.

            • Single

              Originality. Nice.
              link to evidence
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__uutzcQXc

            • Anneliese

              you forgot 93rd in income equality behind China, India and Iran.

          • robert smith

            Totally disagree. Any red southern state does not count. When you have lived in Boston. NY, Chicago, Minneapolis, LA, Denver give me a call. We are not the ignorant morons you claim to have lived with 

            • James

              You’re gonna say there’s no ignorant retards living in Boston? LA? They may not be religious retards, but they’re still pretty fucking retarded.

              • Adamross321

                Well, in Boston they’re wikkid retahded

            • Justin

              i live in NYC. trust me, there are more ignorant morons here than you’d imagine. 

              definitely not more than my time spent in north carolina, but certainly it’s fair share.

            • formeralaskantoo

              i live in minneapolis suburb.  they elected michelle “batshit’ bachmann and jesse “the body’ ventura.  not to mention timmeh pawlenty.  don’t tell me the land of 10,000 lakes isn’t swimming in stupid

          • Fire_child

            unfortunately, you are wrong about the US being the greatest country in the world. What is the US best at? Certainly not academics, which is the topic here…

            “The three-yearly OECD Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) report, which compares the knowledge and skills of 15-year-olds in 70 countries around the world, ranked the United States 14th out of 34 OECD countries for reading skills, 17th for science and a below-average 25th for mathematics.” 
            Now this was done in 2010, so there could be some positive improvements, however I have spoken to many teens in several states across the US, not many of them can even spell. They can use text language…but not regular English… This is disgusting to see the dumbing of our children, because we are so bothered with the shit Congress and the Government are doing we are refusing to actually educate our children! AND now this unconstitutional program…WTF America WE NEED TO WAKE THE HELL UP!!!
            resource:
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/07/us-falls-in-world-education-rankings_n_793185.html

        • Louisiana resident

          None taken

  • LesterBallard

    What a big motherfucking surprise.

  • Stev84

    It’s basically what a lot of people have been saying whenever Christianity gets some special privilege: “Just wait until a Muslim group applies for it”

  • Theotherchap

    Bwahahahahaha!

  • Sue Blue

    People like Valarie Hodges and  Bobby Jindal are their own worst enemies.  If they’re examples  of Louisiana’s craptastic educational system, it’a a wonder people aren’t leaving the state in droves. Hell, with this kind of blazing stupidity on display, atheists don’t need to lift a finger to point out the problems of religion meddling in education.  

    • MLE

      They would leave, but the education system is so bad, they can’t read maps.

      Ba bum ching.

      Also, I remember hearing the unofficial motto of Arkansas is “Thank God For Mississippi” because while Arkansas might be ranked 49th in a whole lot of statistics, Mississippi gets ranked 50th and saves Arkansas from being known as the “worst”

      Louisiana is not that much higher on that list.

  • http://twitter.com/jcgadfly Gadfly

    So much fun when they misread what their ideas do and it bites them in the butt

  • Maury

    I’ve always thought the way to get “In God We Trust” off of money was to insist that we also print some bills with “In Allah We Trust”. 

    Same principle.  If the government allowed one religion to express itself on money, but not others seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Would be nice to get back to “E Pluribus Unum”.

    • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

       Bad analogy. Allah is just Arabic for god. There’s no requirement for equal treatment of languages.

      • RachelBailey

        We could use “In Zeus We Trust” or “In Odin We Trust” or the name of a thousands different gods and goddesses.

        • Isilzha

           We could sell the rights to Marvel (??) and have it say “In Thor We Trust”.  Then we can start printing some money with advertising and movie tie-ins.  I suppose it can only be the $1 bills since they have a high turn over and we’d want to sell the rights again sometime soon.

  • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

    I think it would be great if the Church of Satan suddenly applied for funds.

    Now that would be a real shocker for these backwards religious jerks about how bad an idea this was to begin with. In fact, I think an Atheist group should get together a “shock squadron” of religious organizations which literally shock Christians to the core, such as Paganism, Wiccan, Satanism, Scientology, Mormonism, and a few others to apply for these vouchers all at the same time.

    Seriously, I would enjoy the pain, frustration, and shock on these holier than thou Christians when they suddenly realize that they just got fucked by their own stupid law.

    • http://twitter.com/openib Guy Fawkes

      That is a good idea.

    • Reginald Selkirk

       Key word: Summum. They had a campaign to get plaques of their “seven aphorisms” placed on public land next to the ten commandments. Been a while since I’ve checked in on the progress of their court activity.

    • Ramswrsw

      Seriously, that idea is brilliant. I almost want to start a Louisiana Church of Satan JUST to grind their friggin’ gears!

      • http://www.facebook.com/jason.helios Jason Helios

        There are already Louisiana Church of Satan grottos.  All that’s left is to get them to launch a school!

        • Chelsea

          Someone do this. PLEASE.

        • guinnessblaine

          Satan High?  Go Devils!

          • http://profile.yahoo.com/BSLQKN3DAPLVY5ULJFVOMBMCZI josh

            Satan High school mascot should be the angels. It would be ALOT more hilarious 

            • Falcon

               Satan High, home of the Fallen Angels.

              • http://www.facebook.com/brian.d.foster Brian Foster

                 But that would mean that most every self proclaimed Christian would belong in that school. BTW, for me, most Christians are Paulians. They do not follow Jesus’ teachings but give lots of lip service. They do follow Paul’s writings as if they were Jesus’ words and teachings though. Thus Paulians.

                The Anti-Christ has come and gone, and he is in the bible with more books by him included and overshadows Jesus like an eclipse.

                • Jason The Pendleton Rat

                  That is absolutely true. They don’t know it, but they practice Paulianity. 

                • Jean Dobbin

                  Uh huh, they glorify the messenger and ignore (or distort) the message .. and BTW Paul was a sexual hysteric.

                • PhrenicGermal

                  I don’t agree that the anti-christ or any of this stuff is real but I agree about the Paulians.  I remember holding that view when I was still religious.

                • MCDPT

                  Please read some N.T. Wright, author of several books re: the “New Perspective on Paul”.  Helps break down some of the “old” misunderstandings of Paul’s writings to view them from first century Jewish and Gentile eyes (instead of 21st century American Christian eyes).  Turns out Paul and Jesus didn’t actually teach different “Gospels” (Good News, that is).
                  BTW…not all Christians support state funding of Christian (or other religious) schools, or hate Muslim folks and want to take away their rights. 
                  Unfortunately, many people who might otherwise be drawn to Jesus based on his words (perhaps paraphrased by others since most people are afraid to actually sit down and read the teachings of Jesus, lest they appear to be “considering” them seriously as a possible way of living) have walked away because other people have twisted those words.  People experience “bad” Christians and write off Jesus (and God) completely…understandable, but nonetheless ignorant.
                  If I see a vegetarian eating a cheeseburger, I don’t assume there are no health benefits to vegetables.  I assume they aren’t great at practicing vegetarianism.  Perhaps, I even assume that NOT eating meat, in a world FULL of cheeseburger joints, is a really difficult challenge, even one worth taking up.  Perhaps I could encourage that vegetarian to put down their cheeseburger and take up their broccoli.

                • http://twitter.com/dorkulon heathenish

                  Good or bad, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s simply, empirically untrue.

                • http://www.facebook.com/Daviar Dave Thomas

                  Also check out Elaine Pagels’ Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas.

                • Bill Pell

                  Jesus didn’t write anything. All teachings of Jesus are paraphrased years after his death. Just sayin’

                • DavidHarley

                  Socrates wrote nothing, and disapproved of the spread of reading and writing, as corrupting memory and thought.

                  Most of the works of Aristotle appear to have been compiled out of the notes taken by his students.

                  Even Calvin, in the 16th century, rarely put pen to paper after he had risen to prominence. His vast corpus of later work consists of lectures and sermons. He would dictate his preaching notes in Latin to members of his immediate circle. Then he would deliver his lecture or sermon, in Latin for the benefit of his cosmopolitan audience, and they would take fuller notes. These would be edited and presented to him for approval. Subsequently, they would be printed and published, usually first in Latin but sometimes in other languages.

                  Calvin was undoubtedly a brilliant man, but as he was delivering extended commentaries on biblical texts, in succession, using his knowledge of the Bible, of theology and of classical philosophy, as well as examples from everyday life, the coherence of his thought has to be reassembled by scholars, just as it did by his earlier readers.

                  In the case of Jesus, we appear to have a combination of different kinds of material.

                  There are narratives of events. There are later myths that accreted around his person, because they were appropriate, such as the Virgin Birth and being tempted in the desert by the Devil. We have later accounts of the experiences of the disciples, after his death, when they felt him to be still among them.

                  The various teachings attributed to Jesus seem genuine enough. They are clearly opposed to the teachings of the aristocratic Sadducees, sometimes describes as “the lawyers” because of their literalistic adherence to the ancient laws, and in friendly debate with the moral teachings of the popular Pharisees, with which he was clearly very familiar, as was Paul. Later generations of Christians, especially those who had left the Jewish communities, were uninterested in this context, and their audiences even less so.

                  However, there are major problems. The teachings have been assembled out of collections of sayings, intended for use in sermons or debate. The specific context is usually lost or severely edited, making some remarks seem very strange. In some instances, two or more very disparate remarks have been juxtaposed with no context, so that they appear disjointed or contradictory. John’s Gospel contains a section where all the remarks that use vines as analogies have been jammed together, presumably because that was how the underlying sources were arranged.

                  We know far more about Jesus than we know about even some major intellectuals of the period, but disentangling his teachings is a job for scholars, not Bible-thumpers.

                • Cat

                  I agree that many people who profess to follow Christ are actually following Paul – a man who persecuted the ACTUAL followers of Christ, was a misogynist (women were leaders in the early church until Paul got involved), moved the JEWISH splinter group into a GENTILE group and generally undermined everything that Christ purportedly taught. I agree that they should be called Paulians (and have made that argument with that exact same proposal for the name) and NOT Christians.

                • http://www.facebook.com/donjaramillo Donald Jaramillo

                  Actually Paul appears to have supported women in positions of authority in his church groups as well. He felt that in the “next world” such distinctions would no longer matter and he urged his people to live accordingly. It was the the writer(s) of the Pastorals years after Paul’s death, and selective editing to Paul’s letters over the years that worked to reestablish the old status quo regarding women.

                • DavidHarley

                  – “They do follow Paul’s writings as if they were Jesus’ words and teachings though”

                  Selectively. The egalitarianism of the early Church bothers them. They do like the passages that are seemingly dismissive of women, but scholars are of the opinion that these were interpolated later, in the course of disputes about the role of women.

                  One might note his evident respect for Priscilla, teacher of the church at Rome, who was one of the earliest Christian missionaries, in company with her husband Aquila.

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscilla_and_Aquila

                  In contrast to the traditional evangelical movement, the now dominant fundamentalists lay very little stress on the experience of the believer, as interpreted through private reading of the Bible, and far more on the teaching of the pastor who selects which passages shall be regarded as important and the interpretation to be placed upon them.

              • ……

                K.K.K. High School

                • Jivemonkey

                  an all LGBT high school. Wow, they would die!

                • Samhain1969

                  Am sure there am plenty of dems in Lousy-Anna.

                • Samhain1969

                  or…  David Duke High

                • http://www.facebook.com/serenadebbieorcutt.lembach Serena ‘Debbie Orcutt’ Lembach

                  Perfect for LA. The have long been a stronghold…I have an old, yellowed KKK recruiting card I found in my Dad’s baseball card collection. I wrote to them (still listed on Google) to find out it’s age. No reply to date.. :-)

                • Barry Johns

                  You wont get a reply from them either because the government ran out the KKK.Thats all ok with me but if there arent any KKK orginizations then how in the hell can the same government let the NEW BLACK PANTHERS talk about crackers and killing white babies and all white people.I tell you personally the New Black Panthers are a bunch of punk jokes that use the government to hide behind.I dont have a problem with any group but I can say that the new black panthers are what we call a true blue gum nigger.Thats my thought for the day.

                • Melissa

                  The KKK still exists. Trust me. I see them on the side of the road in full dress, holding up signs about sending minorities back to their respective countries of ethnic origin. Fucking idiots, all of them.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=645660337 Alexander Belisle

              Well, since all devils are fallen angels it would be appropriate as  well as biblical

              • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=723825033 Joshua Williard

                Also Giants, or Nephilim. Need to have multiple team names for the Satanic Youth Athletic Association, SYAA. 

                • UncleBenny

                   The New York Nephilim. Has a nice bit of alliteration to it.

            • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000135991521 Steph Bazzle

               Grammar Nazi High could have the alot as its mascot.

              • http://www.iconfinder.com/ Martin LeBlanc, Iconfinder.com

                An Alot is perfect mascot!

                • http://twitter.com/BdotW Brandon Williams

                  I posted my favorite Hyperbole and a Half before I saw this. Well played Martin. Well played.

                • Treehouse3

                   I seen that. You has a great idea.

              • Reubarbarian

                With a satanic apostrophe as the mascot!

              • Tortmccarter

                Go, Alot’s!

              • Ejinks1034

                The only requierment for entrance would be an understanding of the word “literally”….as in “no religious organizations were literally shocked by this”

                • amycas

                   requirement*

              • Sam Eubank

                *a lot* There’s a space between ‘a’ and ‘lot’. Oh, I also attend Grammar Nazi High. 

            • ERMERGHERD

              If you really want to piss them off, make the mascot Jesus.

              • Clark Cox

                Make the mascot a dark, middle-eastern Jesus :)

                • Pink_elephant

                  Because we all know that Jesus had blue eyes, pale skin, and red hair…. Just like the pictures in all the churches LMAO

                • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001196498968 Aaron Mitchell

                  I ay we go with the norse reliion, at least they can enjoy aryan supermen swinging around.

                • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4XXCWG67ABQUZFL3TNNQ6NHTPQ Bibliofilen

                   If they can teach their creationism we can teach that the world was licked into being out of a block of ice by the giant cow Audhumbla.

                  But Scandinavians are Scandinavians and the Aryans came from northern India.

                • B_R_Deadite99

                   Thank you! I’m so fucking tired of hearing that Nazi bullshit applied to Scandinavians.

                • http://www.facebook.com/astral.eye.1 David Leonard

                  As a pagan I agree, they would have a heart attack ;)

                • Alexander Dukes

                   Make OBL

                • Dizcuzted

                   Magic, Woody Allen, Zombie, Superman Jesus…

            • Sarah Long

              The Fallen Angels

            • Roxy

               The Fallen Angels!

            • Sensible

              I think we can all agree Satan High’s mascot should be the Republicans.

              • Ftinder

                What are you talking about. Satan High’s mascot should be the fightin’ William Blakes!

            • Dizcuzted

              Yes!  Angels in corsets and thigh-high boots…

            • mojwnun

              *Fallen* Angels.

          • Justinm1619

            I like how you said this. Our mascot at my high school was the “Blue Devils” and an offended mother wrote a letter to the school complaining that it wasn’t very Christian, and that it should be changed to the “Blue Angels.”

            • http://www.facebook.com/butch.john Butch John

              I bet you ended up going to college at Duke, too. You heathens are gonna drag this country down with your intelligence and open minds

              • Czechreck

                I see what you did there

              • Cerebral

                 Nah, he probably went to Wake Forest. Go Demon Deacs!

            • Fifth Dentist

               Or better yet, the Blue Balls.

            • 91superstar

              LAME.

          • MR

            How about the Screamin’ Demons

          • artisanr

             Betcha their sports teams play dirty.  :D

          • losers-_-

            wtf

          • http://www.facebook.com/kelly.t.cochran.1 Kelly T. Cochran

            No, irony requires that the team mascot be an angel.

        • ponyneck

          The real COS did away with grottos years ago, if there is one still they’re just wannabes & have no actual affilliation with the original orginazation.

        • ponyneck

          The real COS did away with grottos years ago, if there is one still they’re just wannabes & have no actual affilliation with the original orginazation.

      • http://twitter.com/onepablo Paul Madley

        The First Louisiana Church of Satan must be built!

      • Produent

        Involving oneself with the church of Scientology is NEVER a brilliant idea.

        • http://sportsbooksforbabies.com/ Ken Ashe

          That might be true, but they should still be able to get funding through this program like everyone else.

          • GregForest

            You can bet your bottom dollar the Scientologists are already all over this. If there is $ on the wind, they can sniff it out like a greedy bloodhound. Poor Jindle.

            • Nope

              Poor Jindal?!? He is the idiot who pushed this through (though it didnt take much pushing).

              Jindal is terrible. If he gets nominated for VP, we may as well give Obama the election now (though we in louisiana would welcome a respite from his governorship).

              • oyvey

                 Be careful what you wish for.  We had Janet Napolitano, and she was wonderful as governor, and then when she got called up we were left with Jan Brewer.

              • Shearer Brian

                Amen!  I would suggest Jindal to end his political career now, but then he wouldn’t help out the liberals if he stayed quiet.  So I say, let him speak and dig his own grave.

              • Kathy Stites

                I am in full agreement. Jindal is a big part of the problem here in Louisiana.
                I will be happy to see him go, no matter where it is.
                Those who like or feel empathy with him cannot truly understand how far back he has set our state.
                We were better off with the silver fox.

          • Crosis101

            they aren’t a church, they are a cult as defined by the US Gov’t

            • rth

              I’m pretty sure the U.S. Gov’t doesn’t define “cults.”

            • MissGnomers

              It’s the British government that doesn’t recognize them as a church.

              • Ltc805

                they are dangerous cults in russia and germany. 

                may i just say to this bitch that our founders said freedom of religion, not “we are christians?” did she know about a treaty we signed about never becoming a theocracy? 

      • Guest

        I’m not athiest, but right now I want to apply to open a school for the Flying Spaghetti Monster and get it funded.

        • Michael Scott Franklin

          FSM!

          • skylights

             FSM FTW

            • Game Guru

               Someone call Steven Colbert. And I am 100% dead serious about that. I would be in danger of dying by laughing.

              • Jean Dobbin

                Colbert is on vacation .. but this story won’t get stale in the interim.

        • http://pigsflew.com Adrian Sud

          Baton Rouge Pastafarian High School :)

          • bulldoggerr

             could I get a free ride through a culinary school as an ardent FSM believer?

          • Jeremy Sorrell

            BATON ROUGE PASTAFARIAN SENIOR FOOTBALL RULES!!!

            • Moe

              GO NOODLES!

        • http://www.facebook.com/skycomet Meghan Knuth

          DO IT!

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002920163189 Adam Cunningham

          dont make jokes out of my god his spaghettiness

        • bladibladihark

          Your arguments are dough!

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=524487719 Ian Dowsett

        band practice would be an awesome array of heavy, black and death metal, in costume

    • Rob

      I want nothing to do with anything that could financially support Scientology, even if it is just for lulz.

      • Lifer79

        Scientology doesn’t need financial assistance, it’s fundamental principles are based around the rich and powerful anyway so they have enough of their own. 

        • GregForest

          You must not be an American! Don’t you know you can NEVER have too much money. Buy more now!

      • http://www.facebook.com/patty.mooney1 Patty Kay Mooney

        Isn’t Scientology merely a tax shelter for wealthy celebs? (Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Beck, etc.)  

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          Beck is a Mormon.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553777612 K. Lyn Baker

             Beck is a Scientologist by birth. *Glenn* Beck is a Mormon.

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              Doh! I knew that!

    • ifolkinrock

      Anton Lavey, founder of the Church of Satan, was heavily influenced by the works of Ayn Rand. I think Republicans could get behind that. 

      • Mlb10523

        He said “the perfect satanist is really an atheist.”

        • Shipoopi

          Ya but they aren’t actually the diestic Satanists that Christianity thinks they are.  They really only use it as a way to rile up religious people.  Thats part of why he says that, they don’t really hail Satan.

          • Terminaljive

            I think I read somewhere that Satanism is basically accepting that people have desires which make them sin, and teaches us that there is no shame in it, versus other religions which teach that you MUST repent for your sins. Of course. I’m an atheist, so I don’t claim to know this is 100% what the point of Satanism is.

            • Nick Blow

              The church of satan’s official stance is an atheist one. They don’t actually worship Satan. It’s based on the Jewish origins for the word, which means to rebel IIRC.

              • BobDodds

                Yep.  It’s the Temple of Set that would really drive the Christians wild if they probed behind the names and looked into the actual doctrines.

          • mcac

             I have always thought of them as kind of a mix between hedonists and Libertarians.

      • Eliablackhouse

        lol. I had not heard that one.

    • skreem

      Please don’t say you just threw Pagans and Wiccas (who are in general fantastic people) together with Scientology and Mormonism (who are absolute nutjobs).

      • Cjwdeepsea

        The idea that mormons could be considered as nutty as scientologists is absurd. Having known people from both faiths I can say this for certain.

        • EricHammer

          Every religion is chock full  of nutjobs, none of the stories are any more ridiculous than the other.  Christians who believe in zombie magic look silly when they make fun of xenu or that Joseph Smith nonsense.

           

          • Matt

            and those Buddhist that believe in balance and harmony. Just Crazy!

            • guinnessblaine

              “Anyone who thinks differently than I do has problems!”

              • Isilzha

                 woah…yah, know…that’s exactly what I was fraking thinking!!

              • Sparrow 66

                soooo, does any see the irony in this statement?

                • Don John

                  Note the quotation marks, meaning it’s a quote and not an argument.

              • Ink-Slingin-Fool

                and deserves to be burned at the stake……

            • Falcon

              Buddhism isn’t a religion, it is a way of life. I know a number of Buddhist Christians and at least one Buddhist Jew.

              • Isilzha

                 ::GAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!::::

              • Danny Milosavljevic

                I know what you’re trying to say but to atheist’s standards, Buddhism is a religion because you have to believe that getting rid of stress is possible FOR YOU and until you actually are free of stress, it is just a belief – in something someone told you. It’s unfortunate, given how much of it is scientific and based on fact, but that’s how it is. There have to be axioms somewhere :(

                • Michael

                   I think the only axiom of Buddhism is take whatever you wan from this philosophy, if something doesn’t seem right to you, don’t do it. It really is a flexible “religion” I put it in quotation marks because it is a loose religion and doesn’t really restrict you. I’ll give an analogy. Most religions are forceful, they put you in walls and lead you down one path, Buddhism is an open field with many paths that are not enclosed, meaning you can bridge from one to another, you can wander a bit, and you can always go back to where you started.

                • Michael A.

                  To be a Buddhist, you have to believe in a handful of key principles which are scientifically unprovable at this stage of our global culture. These include Karma, Nothingness, and that a man named Siddhattha Gotama found a method to remove all karma from your consciousness. Those that practice these methods or uphold this cosmology can be considered Buddhists. 

                • http://twitter.com/Satur9 SaturNine

                  Blurring the lines between philosophy and religion doesn’t help your credibility, I’m afraid. It just strengthens damaging stereotypes.

                • Danny Milosavljevic

                  I agree. It’s good to clearly describe the world as it is, reusing existing words with their original definition insofar possible.

                • http://www.facebook.com/alvinlmitchell Alvin Mitchell

                  That’s not entirely true.  There is evidence that I can reduce stress, and that that might be good for me. So while it is a stretch to say I can be stress free, there’s at least some evidence to start experimenting and see what I can come up with.  

                  Slightly different than “don’t worry about it, your invisible sky friend will help you”.  That being said… not really interested in studying Buddhism enough to know if it makes sense to me. 

                • Danny Milosavljevic

                  That stretch is the main objection by laymen to buddhism I heard, though. The (speculative) argument is: if there were no stress at all left, you’d lose drive and would not want to do anything anymore.

                  That this is not so can be seen on the many buddhists that did just that, but who’s to say it will be the same for you – or that they aren’t lying?

                  Here one needs a leap of faith which is what I and people around me usually call “religiosity”. This also where the priests can build their “empires” by adding requirements – and sometimes did, depending on the region.

                  As for not being interested, that’s fine. It’s just like for hospitals, best to stay away from them when you are fine…

                • MW

                  Nope. Falcon is correct. Buddhism is not a religion – it is non-theistic, therefore merely a life philosophy, not a religion.

                • 20smoke

                  How about the Rastas, I’m betting they would like some state funding!

                • Danny Milosavljevic

                  Interestingly, wikipedia says there’s no accepted scientific definition of “religion” in the first place. Since this law here doesn’t define it, we can just declare anything we want as religion and get funding. Have to start my siestas-every-day religious school :-)

                • Ramon

                   As an atheist Buddhist, let me say you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.  Buddhism is not a religion, it’s a philosophy; it requires no belief in anything without evidence, no gods, no magic.

                  Not all Buddhist’s are atheists, some do believe in gods because it’s part of their culture, but those beliefs don’t come from Buddhism, they are cultural artifacts of India.

                • Isilzha

                  wait…so which is the TRUE ™ Buddhism???  For many people, though, it IS a religion.  Still, I think things would greatly improve in the world if we could wave a magic wand and make all the xians into buddhists. 

                • Katherine Hermann

                  There are two sects of Buddhism: Theravada and Mahayana. Though neither is the “true” Buddhism, Theravada is closest to the early Buddhism developed by Siddhartha. Mahayana tends to view Buddha as an earthly manifestion of an “omnipresent being.” They are very hesitant to say “god,” but of the two, it is the one most steeped in a deity.

                  So, in some ways, ALL of you are correct: there exist some religious aspects, but they are not necessarily practiced by all Buddhists.

                  (…end of teaching lesson.)

                • Malcire

                  Buddhism gives beliefs on an after life and spirituality in a semi codified way (not dogmatic though). So it still qualifies as a religion. It is odd in tat it doesn’t have a god or gods, but these are not required for something to be a religion.

              • William Caulfield

                 Not completely true.  American Buddhism has attempted to remove the religious portions, but that just waters it all down into a soppy bunch of quotes.

                I can assure you that when I offer incense and bow to Avalokiteshvara, I am feeling quite religious  :)

            • Pittsnoggld

              What’s so crazy about balance and harmony??? If any religion was close to having it right, I would say it’s them.

        • Stev84

          Mormonism has some whacky space stuff too. They just keep it somewhat hidden, so it’s not so easily found unless someone is really looking for it

        • Isilzha

          Oh…so you’re CERTAIN…well, that’s all the evidence I fraking need.

          Dude, they’re ALL absurd fraking nutcases!!!

        • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

           Mormons (along with hindus, muslims and all the various flavours of christianity) believe in nonsense that is no less whacky than Xenu and the scientology bunkum. Scientology is just newer.
          Virgin births, original sin, talking serpents, a celestial home where you will live forever as a god…
          Totally. Fucking.  Insane.

          • M8r-bhaha2

            I think the problem was that Scientology is much more harmful and cult like than the rest of the bunch.

            • Jamesmarkwell

              Yeah, scientology is more harmful because they started the crusades, molest young boys, and blew up the world trade center.. oops.. I see what I did there. They are ALL dangerous and nutty. Scientology is just too new to have started any wars.

              • http://www.facebook.com/alvinlmitchell Alvin Mitchell

                The problem is more people than religion.  People love the idea that they don’t have to think for themselves, they just have to listen to one man, or one group of men, and they’ll tell them what’s right and what’s wrong.  Religion does some really good things, and some really bad things, depending on who is currently in charge… But most importantly, religion teaches people to not think for themselves enough to tell the difference.

            • KublaConn

              All of the “real” religions (your standard list) are just cults that have endured through time.

        • http://gristleoflife.wordpress.com/ Analog Kid

          Mormon magic underwear, gold tablets from an angel, not allowing Mormon youth to view any website except for mormon.org, forcing Mormon youth to go door-to-door for two years, polygamy, god is solid flesh and bone?
          Yeah…nothing nutty there.

        • Anti-crush

          Please explain to the world why anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything, certain or otherwise.

          P.S.  Based on our common reality, they must be, at best, equally nutty.

        • Jamesmarkwell

          Two words.. Magic underwear.. C’mon.. I am married into a Mormon family. One man’s space ship is another man’s underwear.. Believing any of it is nutty. A devout scientologist is no nuttier than a devout Hale Bopian or Scientologist.

          • Isilzha

            Don’t the Mormons also believe that after they die the men get to be ruler gods of their own planet or something?  Didn’t seem that far off from Scientology to me.

        • http://www.facebook.com/patty.mooney1 Patty Kay Mooney

          Just finished reading Jon Krakauer’s “Under the Banner of Heaven” which illuminates how Mormon fundamentalists murdered people in the past, because “God gave them revelations.”  That’s as nutty as it gets.  
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_massacre

      • Isilzha

        Well, they all do belong to the group which Summer defined as ones “which literally shock Christians to the core”. 

        Though I find some of their politics more tolerable (ie, liberal), I still find many pagans as arbitrarily dogmatic as any other religious groups I’ve encountered.

      • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

         While pagans and wiccans may be less dangerous and fascist than some other religious nuts, they still believe nonsense with absolutely no evidence. I’d say they’re all equally nutty…they just differ in the degree to which they try to fuck with the freedom of others.

        • BobDodds

          A lot of Pagans and Wiccans are hardcore skeptics who are more interested in making use of the psychological effects of ritual and symbol systems than in actually believing that any of it is objectively true.

          • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

             A lot of catholics don’t buy into transubstantiation or any of the other dogmatic nonsense…but that doesn’t make catholicism any less whacky. People who just want to dance in the forest but don’t buy into the supernatural woowoo are just fine…but why call themselves wiccans or pagans then?

            • Michael

               Because that stuff is fun?

            • Brian Scott

              Because neopagan religions tend to be orthopraxic: belief is irrelevant. You participate in rituals, you’re a pagan Harry, doesn’t matter what you believe.

              Meanwhile, Catholicism still has a dude in a similarly funny hat and dress saying that being Catholic means “Credo in unum Deum”. While Catholicism is chock full of ritual, you are still ultimately bound by faith. You can’t deny the existence of God or disagree with certain points of dogma and still be considered in communion with the RCC.

              • Isilzha

                 Oh, it certainly does matter what you believe.  Except for the really large, usually public gatherings, each group develops their own dogmas, rules, beliefs that the group must follow.  To not believe in some things means getting booted from the group. 

                A long time ago I tried out the Pagan thing and I eventually realized it really wasn’t that much different underneath the surface than the churches I attended as a child.  So, Pagans don’t get any special exemption just because they’re not as bad (in some ways) as other religions.

                • Brian Scott

                  That seems incongruous with what I’m aware of to be an enduring pattern in neopaganism. :: shrug ::

                • Isilzha

                  Well, it’s definitely not an endearing pattern!  I wish I could remember what the ridiculous fight was about on that pagan listserv that finally made me realize they sounded just like the people in the churches I attended as a kid.  I think it was over some trivial piece of ritual and there were 2 factions insisting that it HAD to be done their way or it wasn’t right.  Both sides were appealing to their favorite traditions and authorities to prove their point.  After a couple of weeks reading such messages I realized I’d heard it all before; the only thing that had really changed was the language.  There’s not no “right” way to do a ritual, pagan or xian, since it’s all pointlessly ineffective anyway.

                • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

                  You might not belong to one group, but there would be a group you can believe with..or go solitary. That does not mean you are not Pagan or Wiccan… just that you are not a member of a particular group. Like mine has a tradition that is taught and passed on… we give people 6 months of study and being a part of things before they decide its for them..if it isn’t I help them find a group that is closer to what they are looking for.

                  We have a degree system and the study is formal…not many make it..but that does not mean they are not Wiccan or Pagan, no one can judge that. If you believe in a certain way..that is your belief and no one can take that. I have taught Christians, I taught a hard core Baptist preacher..he became a liberal Methodist .who knows our ways, make lovely candles, keeps bees and can spread truth instead of the misinformation that even here is being spread.

                  You can not go to any one group and think all are the same..we are not. There are certain things that make you Wiccan…

                  The Wiccan Rede is a statement that provides the key moral system in the Neopagan religion of Wicca and other related Witchcraft-based faiths. A common form of the Rede is An it harm none, do what ye will.

                  The word “Rede” derives from Middle English, meaning “advice” or “counsel” and being closely related to the German Rat or Swedish råd. “An” is an archaic Middle Englishconjunction, meaning “if.” “Ye” is an archaic or dialectal form of “you”
                  And the Will is not Whim but your purpose in life. Your personal power.
                  http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/wiccanpaganhistory/a/American-Council-Of-Witches-And-The-13-Principles-Of-Wiccan-Belief.htm

                  Then each group contains their own mandates… for mine it is what we call the Tenets of Faith that comes from the Charge of the Goddess.
                  We are not like the Catholic church or any Monotheistic religion…we can not be..Paganism is too ancient and covers too much time and beliefs.
                  .

                • Isilzha

                  I think you’re proving the point that paganism is as dogmatic and absurd as any other belief system. Are you here trying to proselytize for pagan/wicca, lol?!? That’s hilarious!

                  Honey, I’ve been there and done that in 3 different states…I think I have a good grasp of what wicca is and how it’s practiced by different groups. It’s just as silly and harmful as xianity.

              • Brian Scott

                I agree with everything you said here, and I’m also named Brian Scott.  Are you actually me posting in some sort of haze?  Are we both Tyler Durden?

                • Brian Scott

                  I don’t think I’m you. o.O

            • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

              Do you have any idea what being Wiccan or Pagan means? And we do not just dance in the forest. Nor do we dance and howl under the moon. Nor do most of us believe that there are Gods and Goddesses wearing togas floating around in the ether.

              You have no idea what it is we believe or do. Nor do you understand the need for ritual and the sacred…so keep off what you do not know or understand. Study some Joseph Campbell or Jung. Try knowing some early history…herbalism, archaeology, sustainability, permaculture,..most of us are involved in the rights of people and equality of women, of safety, the connection between humanity and the environment of reaching outward toward something bigger then we are to reach within and make changes we need. What supernatural woo woo are you talking about? Calling on the power of growth and giving that power a name? that is woo woo..? how about what you call electricity? If you call it George does that change the power? If I call it Sam does that change what it does?

              WE have a huge percentage of scientists and techy people who follow Wicca and other Pagans religions. Because they understand the under lying truths that are covered by the mythic.

              You have no idea of what we are about.

              • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

                “Calling on the power of growth”.. Does it answer? Sure, I use electricity but I don’t “call” it and I don’t perform silly rituals every time I plug in my toaster.

                • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

                  So you do not know what we do, do you? I do not do a ritual every time I call on anything. I do a ritual as part of my devotions…and that ritual entails lighting a stick of incense and lighting a candle…it is also celebrating with ritual the eight sacred times or the Wheel of the Year. They are times of change of the Earth. Look up what ritual is. When you leave for work at the same time each day..that is ritual.

                  It is easy to talk about what you do not know or understand…if you do not learn another thing about Pagans…learn what the name means..Pagan comes from Latin, Pangani…which means Children of the Earth. We honor the earth,and all the creatures and life on Her. That is what we are about.

                • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

                  “it is also celebrating with ritual the eight sacred times or the Wheel of the Year.” …Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

                • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

                  Ok its ok for you to celebrate Christmas? Our Yule and the Winter Solstice..a turning of the wheel. ”
                  You celebrate Thanks giving…we celebrate Harvest Home..a time of celebrating the fall harvest and giving thanks.
                  You celebrate Easter…we celebrate Eostre…the coming of summer… you celebrate the rising of a God from the dead.

                  We celebrate Candlemas… you celebrate Ground hog day.. for us its the promise of winter over and the coming of spring… you wait to see if an animal sees his shadow to see if spring will come in 6 weeks…
                  But you say our way of seeing the year as a wheel..ever returning does not make perfect sense but watching to see if an animal sees his shadow is?
                  If you honor the earth, then all the seasons and changes is part of the sacred. Not perfect for you..but makes perfect sense to me.

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  The distinction for me is that none of these are sacred. I have evolved to look for patterns and to be social. So my family ‘celebrates’ these holidays mostly because that’s when everyone else does. I notice when the odometer on my car hits a palindrome, or repeating digits, or a large power of 10. But I also recognize that none of these numbers is really any more special than any other. I will ‘celebrate’ the new year, but I know that it being the ‘new year’ is just an artifact of the way my culture has grouped astronomical cycles to better keep track of and count them.

                  As for celebrating the rising of a god from the dead, you did catch the atheist in the blog’s title, no? :-)

                • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

                  I don’t celebrate groundhog day…it’s stupid. Sure we had candy at easter and trees and presents at Christmas because that was for my children…kids like make believe. I’m an adult and, presumably, so are you. Time to live in the real world. Now christmas is just a time of year that we use to get together with friends and family. We don’t celebrate or believe any of the bullshit mysticism christians buy into.
                  You can deny it all you want but your use of the word “faith” and other mystical nonsense you’ve alluded to indicates you believe in some sort of supernatural element to all this crap.
                  And no, of course I don’t celebrate a god coming back from the dead. That’s stupid. I’m not a goddamn christian…they’re wackier than wiccans.

                • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

                  Oh, and even if you don’t have believe one iota of the traditional wiccan supernatural woo woo…you’re the exception. As I stated above, just because some catholics don’t believe in transubstantiation or other dogmatic BS doesn’t mean Catholicism isn’t crazy.
                  Tell me this doesn’t describe some pretty nutso kookiness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca

                • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

                  It does not matter what YOU believe..its what society on the whole believe. I happen to have been born a spiritual being..it is necessary for me to have that in my life..how it makes the most sense to me is in the real…nothing realer then nature.

                  What you believe has nothing to do with my believe and visa versa.

                • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

                  Hey, I never said there was ever anything “wrong” with your beliefs in the sense that you’re harming anyone else. They’re “wrong” in the sense that they are not based upon reality. Your beliefs are no more substantiated than those of any other religion and are, therefore, just as silly as christian, muslim or any other religion…just, perhaps, less harmful to others. They’re not based upon evidence but upon faith and wishful thinking. Hey, if it makes you feel better and you don’t try and legislate any of your dogma, I don’t care what you believe.

                • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

                  Ok..what reality do you have that I don’t?

          • Fifth Dentist

             No wiccan or pagan has rung my doorbell early on a Saturday morning. If they want to worship trees or rocks or Hendrix’s Electric Ladyland album, and they leave me the hell alone while they’re doing it, more power to them.

          • Isilzha

             And some of them actually think that they can wave their hands around, chant some words and that really has an effect on the world.  Believing in magic is absurd.

            • Anon51

              About as absurd as believing in prayer.

            • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

              Oh really? So tell me how many people believe in prayer?
              But prayer with props is absurd?We do not “wave” our hands around.
              Its funny how people that would never discriminate against others think it is just fine to misrepresent Wiccans and other Pagans. Unless you know what you have knowledge its best not to prove your ignorance.

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                Most of the people on this blog (including me) think that prayer with or without props is absurd. I did my year-and-a-day initiation. I believed I could ‘focus energy’ and ‘put thoughts out to the universe’. I however didn’t believe in the personification of natural forces to the degree that some of my pagan friends did. The one that baffled me was a claim that we HAD to have purple candles for Imbolc, and what we had were too pink. Obviously not all pagans are that dogmatic, since I surely wasn’t. Like you said, herding cats. I’d say if anything atheists are even more diverse. For one thing, I never did meet a Conservative pagan.

                When someone said something about “the degree to which they’ll mess with your freedoms” I’d honestly put the pagan ‘messing with’ at 0.

                None of us can speak for what you in particular believe. But I can speak for what quite a few pagans believe. And although I’d say that the only harm is that a lot of it is not true, I will happily defend the rights of others to believe things that aren’t true.

                • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

                  In La there are more Conservative Pagans then I thought there were in the world. Yes..our Pagan lawyer is a Conservative. The norse are mostly conservatives, many Wiccans are…we are diverse. I happen to be a liberal. We have had to our county council)(parish council) to federal court..and we won. We have had to take them to court twice..both times we won..now we just threaten.

                  We worked for over 10 years to have a Pagan religious emblem on military headstones.. for fallen Pagan soldiers, we won that too finally.

                  I will not back up lies or say that people have the right to believe lies that harm others. That is not anyone’s freedom of speech. People have died because of lies and the same kind of BS that has shown up on this thread. Suicide caused by bullying…people losing their kids, jobs, having their homes burned down, their pets killed..I was beaten because of a man that came into my home and because of my religion, felt he had the right to do what ever he wanted. I was hurt.

                  So no..people do not have the right to sayu what they want..no more then the man who shot and killed so many in that temple..because he only knew what Fox said.

                  I am Wiccan..and to those who claim Buddhism, we are closer to that then any other religion out there. Balance and harmony is part of our goal…

              • Isilzha

                ::yawn::

                I tried the pagan/wiccan thing. It was as stupid, idiotic and dogmatic as the xian thing. All prayer and belief in magic is absurd no matter what label you slap on it.

        • http://twitter.com/Cloberella Haley Craven

          Yeah, as far as I see it there really is no distinction between  the  belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree, and believing in “magik”.

          • MW

            Well said! : )

          • VT_Citizen

             Yes nicely put.  Blessed be.

            • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

              Blessed Be…

          • SpinozaDiego

            “Cosmic Jewish Zombie”

            Quest for new band name complete.

            • John Reinert Nash

              CosmicJewishZombie.tumblr.com

          • Guest

            ahahahahahahaha awesome

          • DTitchner

            Come on now Haley, give credit where credit is due.

          • Fallen Angel

            Been spending time on Urban Dictionary, Haley? Hi-five!!!

          • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

            Magick
            Depends in what you think magick is…hint- it is not illusion.

        • http://profile.yahoo.com/3BPVXX55FB56ENJFTEE3JJ5J4A Iprayforhumanity

           “They still believe nonsense with absolutely no evidence” I’ll take the definition of religion for $500 Alex?

        • Jward012

          Can you give one example of pagans or wiccans trying to “fuck with the freedom of others,” as you so crudely put it?  No?  Then STFU.

          • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

            I think it’s probably more appropriate that you, with your somewhat limited reading comprehension skills, should STFU “as you so crudely put it”.
            In my previous comment I never said pagans or wiccans “fuck with the freedom of others”. I said that religions, including paganism and wicca, “differ in the degree to which they try to fuck with the freedom of
            others.” Now, that means that some of them may not fuck with the freedom of others at all while some fuck with those freedoms immensely.  And, I think it is clear from the context that I was implying that wicca and paganism fall nearer the don’t fuck at all end of the sprectrum.
            If you are a wiccan or pagan, I suggest a more appropriate thing for you to be offended by would be my insistence that those belief systems are nutty.
            If you’re going to be overly sensitive about your unsubstantiated, ridiculous beliefs, at least get upset about actual insults…not things no one ever said.

            None the less, your misplaced, righteous indignation was amusing. Thanks.

          • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

            I can agree with that…thank you..

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=646972363 Bryan Punyon

          Paganism/Wiccanism/Druidism are all based on the study and reverence of Nature.  While there are some spiritual aspects and Deified personifications, it’s still essentially Earth-worship. So no, not quite as nutty as some others, like the Believers of the Sky Cake. ;P

          • http://www.facebook.com/mychyl Mychyl Kime

             Which is, of course, a lie.

        • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

          Do you understand Wicca? Or do you just know the surface of that religion? Evidence of the wind? well I got proof..evidence of water? I got that proof..that the earth is a living organism? It is. That what each of us do we are responsible for..and can not blame a god or a devil?
          We do not go door to door trying to get converts, in fact people have to find us.. Pagans are like herding cats…you can not force them to do anything you believe what you believe, there is no more diverse religion in the world.

          Fucking with your freedom? How has any Wiccan kept anyone from their freedoms? We are too busy fighting for our own.

          So before you talk shit about any Pagan faith, you need to learn something about what you are talking about..more then the surface, which has little to do with what it is.

          Equally nutty? really? how much do you know about any faith to be talking smack about it?

          • http://justdfacsmaam.wordpress.com/ MarkNS

            You’ve said it all when you said “pagan faith”. You believe things on faith not evidence. That’s silly.

            • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

              sure its faith…I can not prove how I feel about anything. Faith is emotional…it is based on what you feel on the inside…you can not use logic, you set it aside with faith.

              But I also know one and one= two. So I can say yes, that is a myth about any of our mythic stories..but it is true that one and one = two.

              Faith is the emotional knowing…religion is the rules of following that faith.

      • http://www.facebook.com/alvinlmitchell Alvin Mitchell

        I don’t think they were trying to say Pagans were the same as Scientologists and Mormons, just that they scare the hard core christians. 

      • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

        As I explained in a reply to somebody else: It doesn’t matter how you see Pagans and Wiccans, or how Pagans and Wiccans see themselves. What matters, in my suggestion, is how a lot of Christians see them. And the way that they are seen by those Christians are as the devil incarnate.

        Pagans and Wiccans may disagree that they are, but that is actually how they are seen by Bible thumping Christians.

        That’s all that counts in this instance.

    • Azoomer

      I wanna be a “Satanist”!  =D

    • http://twitter.com/TypicalKilla713 Chris Osornia

      YES, I would too if i was in that cucku state…..

    • Sandbox Noun

      Church of Chuck Norris. Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster. Church of Kopimism (free computers, all night long lan parties :D). I like the way you’re thinking.

      • http://www.facebook.com/mychyl Mychyl Kime

         No need for Church of Chuck Norris.  We already have too many churches teaching bigotry as it is.  ;P

    • Shanereid

      dont joke about scientology.
      those people need help.

      • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

        I don’t need to joke about scientology.

        They already are a joke.

    • Savana – California

      Love it, I absolutely love it

    • Zenthran

      To the original poster, that behavior would be no better than what you are railing against. Just as the foolish ones who would turn their noses up at the wisdom or peace of another religous fellow, you would antogonize and and hope to wound. Hatred only begets hatred.

    • Okok

      Open a school of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and teach children how to respect the holy noodle and to have faith in him.

    • 212

      SO much hate

    • Jackie Pekar

      Love it! I agree! Hahaha…

    • Cathen

      As a Wiccan, I’m not sure Wicca or Paganism has a place in your shock squadron. They aren’t supposed to be in any way reactionary or anti-Christianity, simply alternative (and you can argue that a lot of their core beliefs even predate Christianity). Satanism is clearly reactionary to be against Christianity (I mean, they stole “Satan” from them intentionally), so that would be a great idea in this case, that would be hilarious. I also think Scientology would be a hilarious “shock squadron” move, but currently Scientology is losing religious status in individual states, and as (I believe) it is a dangerous cult that hurts people, it would be better to continue pressing for the disregard and dissolution of Scientology, rather than try and use it as a political tool. That’s one double-edged sword that I’m confident would come back at us.

      • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

        I understand what you’re trying to say, but you’re not understanding what the suggestion is. The suggestion isn’t to take religions that see themselves in opposition to Christianity. The point is to take religions that Christians see as in opposition to Christianity. Now, as somebody who isn’t terribly opposed to paganism or wiccan in the same way that I am against Christianity (although…I’m sorry to have to say that I still oppose paganism and wiccan like all the rest), I do have to point out that a lot of Christians see you (as a wiccan) as the devil incarnate. It doesn’t matter how you feel about it, it’s how they see you and your religion. I’m almost positive that this state representative sees you and your religion in just that way. So as for my suggestion on how to shock her and her like-minded Christian friends, I don’t see how I should change those suggested religions in any way.

        I’m sorry to include you in such mixed company, but it isn’t about your feelings. It’s about severely disrupting the ideas of others. That may sound cold but, hey, I don’t believe in any of it anyway. You know that going into the bargain when you’re going to read my point of view, so at least I’m being completely honest about it.

        • Papilly Iscarovich

          “but it isn’t about your feelings. It’s about severely disrupting the ideas of others.”
          I don’t want to sound hypocritical but that’s a pretty destructive idea. I was a born a raised Catholic till I realized how stupid some of the beliefs were and how ridiculous the whole hierarchy is, but I feel like attacking other peoples ideals just for the sake of attacking them makes you just as bad as the Christians that attack Muslims, Buddhists , or Mormons. If they want to live in their little fairytale why not let them. Now admittedly much of that bias should be removed from politics, no doubt. Still, you are happiest being atheist and you are allowed to do so. So why not let them live in their little worlds?

          • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

            Be as touchy-feely as you want with your feelings, but please don’t misinterpret what I wrote. I didn’t suggest the idea to become friends with these fundamentalist idiots, but to antagonize them further. Now, I realize that you may think that this isn’t the best way to make friends, and I would agree. My point, however, is that I’m not suggesting it to make friends; I’m suggesting it to piss them off.

            If I had wanted to suggest making friends with them, I wouldn’t have suggest it in this particular way.

            As to the second part of your question: you must have missed reading the entire original story. I didn’t suggest this because they were content to live in their little world without bothering anyone else. I suggested this course of action because they weren’t content to stay in their little world and started seriously infringing upon the rest of the world around them. The reason a lot of us atheists are fighting back is because the level of infringement from religious people in the last few decades has risen sharply and, quite frankly, we’re sick of it. We’re not out to make friends with our reaction. We’re mostly out to tell them that enough is enough, and to either go back to their little worlds or to leave them altogether and join the real one.

            • Papilly Iscarovich

               I would have to disagree with the level of religious infringement increasing. There is a reason that the Catholic church doesn’t rule the western world like it used to. The fact is that Atheists are winning. Now, that’s because they’re right, but I don’t think attacking those who hold on to a religion is reasonable at all. People with religions ought to be able to speak their minds in politics without being derided by the left and those on the right shouldn’t force their ideals onto atheists and those of other religious persuasions.  The main issue I have is that while the left claims to ultimately  be tolerant of everybody (gays are the best current example of this) they then refuse to allow people whose beliefs are the center of their lives to allow those beliefs to guide them in their political decisions.

              Also, I wasn’t trying to be touchy feely about it. More live and let live.

              • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

                ” I would have to disagree with the level of religious infringement increasing. There is a reason that the Catholic church doesn’t rule the western world like it used to.”

                I disagree with your disagreement. There has been a resurgence of fundamentalism all over the world. One reason that atheists have become so outspoken is because our rights have been infringed upon.

                “The fact is that Atheists are winning.”

                A little early to say.

                “People with religions ought to be able to speak their minds in politics without being derided by the left and those on the right shouldn’t force their ideals onto atheists and those of other religious persuasions.”

                It depends what they believe. Generally, they believe in nonsense and I don’t have to respect that at all, no. Here, in Israel, if some fundie orthodox idiot says that women have to move to the back of the bus, I’ll give them the fucking finger, ok? If some asshole politician in America says that creationism should be taught in the classroom, I’ll also give them the finger. I don’t have to respect what they think or say at all if it’s utter nonsense. And if they’re trying to force their ideals on to me, then I bloody well am going to reciprocate.

                “The main issue I have is that while the left claims to ultimately  be tolerant of everybody (gays are the best current example of this) they then refuse to allow people whose beliefs are the center of their lives to allow those beliefs to guide them in their political decisions.”

                Does that mean I have to respect the “ideological differences” I have with racists who think that Jews and Blacks should be 3rd class citizens or simply exterminated? Because, you know, the whole “tolerance” thing?

                “Also, I wasn’t trying to be touchy feely about it. More live and let live.”

                Sounds to me like you were. But if you want to live and let live with people out to destroy you, good luck with that. Sometimes, it’s an idiotic philosophy.

              • Anneliese

                Did you read the article? I would say Summer’s original suggestion is a perfect example of whats good for the goose…et al. They passed a stupid unconstitutional law so they could use everybodies tax money (including non religious folks) for religious education and are now shocked and dismayed it may be used for something other than Christianity….I would say that ISNT minding their business and they deserve a healthy helping of shock and awe.

          • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

            I don’t coddle the idiotic beliefs of others simply because they want them to be. If, for instance, I meet a racist (and I have) who thinks that all Jews and Blacks should be exterminated or deported back to Africa, I don’t stand around thinking about how I shouldn’t blow some holes in their idiotic beliefs with an ideological .357 Magnum.

            Maybe you want to sit there and stroke and caress their egos, but I sure as hell don’t.

    • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

      BTW, I’d just like to add: wow! I had no idea that my suggestion/comment would spark so many replies and likes. Thank everyone.

    • http://www.facebook.com/cindy68 Cindy W Li

      Actually, the church of Satan is pretty secretive. They, generally, do not even admit that they are Satanist. Very few are out of the closet if you will. But yes, these funds would be available to them as well. Freedom of worship/fairy tale and so on.

    • guest

      Mormons are Christian…just saying.  http://mormon.org/jesus-christ/

      • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

        Fundies don’t consider them Christians. Doesn’t matter what Morons..oops! Mormons think in this particular case. Just sayin’.

    • Austen

      Did you know Jedi is an official world religion since it had enough followers?

      Yes that’s right, Lousiana School Of The Force. You can officially do that and the government will have to give you state funds with your school under Jedi. LOL

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1448183332 Kellen Dunkelberger

        My friend listed his religion as Jedi when he entered the military.

    • Skotosynthesis

       That would be a brilliant irony.  Only problem is that the Church of Satan makes it a point to avoid this very hypocrisy.  They are entirely self-funded, and every year since they were founded they have declined tax-exempt status (for which they are very much eligible,) just to make this very statement.

      • Skotosynthesis

         …oh, almost forgot: they are also strictly against indoctrinating children, as a matter of principle.

    • BC

      How would Mormonism shock Christians? Mormons ARE Christian. The Book of Mormon is the cornerstone of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. By the way, the LDS (or Mormons, as you say) do fund their own schools, and do not apply for governmental grants. So, they agree with you in principle — there is freedom of religion (all religions) and there is a separation between Church and State.

      • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

        1) Most Christians of the Rep. Hodges variety would probably blanche if you said that Mormons are Christians.

        2) That’s why most of them didn’t want to vote for Mitt Romney, remember? Because his religion is not “Christian”. That’s how they see it.

        3) It does not matter how you or Mormons see it. For this idea to work, it matters how fundamentalist Christians see it. You may think Mormonism is Christian, but they do not. To them, Mormonism is a literal heresy.

        4) I wasn’t being absolutely serious and I do know that Morons have their own schools since a hundred and fifty years of proud anti-intellectual history. The point was to throw names in there of religions which Christian fundamentalists might find shocking – not to dissect who is already getting, interested in, or simply not interested in government funding.

    • Flowergirl_33102

      I love your comment!!! I woke my whole house up laughing so hard! I agree with exactly everything you just said….omggggg

    • Kate

      Nice! How about the Louisiana School of Wicca and Witchcraft? Or the Baton Rouge Academy of New Age Living? Seriously, we could come up with hundreds…

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=676173164 Lucy Anna Gadilauskas

       I like this… except the fact that you seem to not realize Mormons are a Christian church, just with an extra book…

      So other than that, yes ◦◕ ᴥ ◕◦ ¥

    • http://www.facebook.com/skycomet Meghan Knuth

      HA HA HA!! YES!! 
      Also… The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster should apply for funding! Pastafarians in Lousiana… please start a petition!

    • Freedom of Religion

      As a pagan, I would not want to be represented by an athiest group.  Just sayin’

    • B_R_Deadite99

       Louisiana University of Dagon, in association with the Esoteric Order of Dagon, Innsmouth, Massachusetts.

      Let’s make it happen, people.

    • http://www.facebook.com/terra.gazelle Terra Gazelle

      I am Pagan, Wiccan to be exact..I lead a group and teach. I was thinking about applying here in La. I mean we have a school building, a degree system, a syllabus, we are recognized as a church in La. I am legal clergy…we have by laws and a constitution and are listed as a non profit…why not apply for funds?
      And it would be such fun to see Religious bigot heads exploding. We are a seminary to train others to be clergy of our tradition of the Wiccan religion. It would be nice to have funds..as we do not charge to teach, we do recycling and yard sales for needed supplies…and the donations of our students.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kimberly-Lovett-Pace/1094357714 Kimberly Lovett Pace

      If they are able to get funding they will begin to show up almost immediately. It will be fun to watch.

    • http://www.facebook.com/marti.salvato Marti Salvato

      We have The Church Of Satin in Tucson. Will that do?

    • ponyneck

      There already is a Church of Satan. However, they would NEVER ask for or accept public funds. They actually believe in the seperation of church & state and they have enough integrity to uphold that belief. I truly believe if you were to offer them public funds they would turn it down, without hesitation. (For those of you who are unaware of the COS or what they stand for, please keep your comments to yourself. Stupidity is the highest of all Satanic “sins” & showcasing your stupidity here will not serve any purpose.)

    • http://www.facebook.com/mark.bousquet Mark Bousquet

      I didn’t know there was a difference between Christian fundamentalism and Satanism. They both worship the Goddess Ayn Rand. >:>

    • tspoonhunter

      Why can’t you make your point without the use of profanity. Profanity is the attempt of a feeble mind to express itself forcefully.

    • http://www.facebook.com/collean.wilson Collean Wilson

      The only problem with that is I don’t know of any paganism, wiccan, satanism, scientology or mormon schools. The only ones I know of are christian and muslim. Besides this woman is an absolute idiot if she thinks that if the money is there that other religious schools won’t apply for it. What she says amounts to “I only thought the money would be given to white children”. BIGOT BITCH!

  • http://www.facebook.com/warren.sims Warren Sims

    There should not be any funding for any religious schools. Separation of church and state! Get It!!!!!!!

    • nominalize

      It almost happened, over a hundred years ago.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaine_Amendment

    • Speachless

      church schools are considered “private” schools.  not public.  the only schools that should get funding are PUBLIC schools – and they’re SORELY underfunded as it is!.

      further, I agree church … NO FUNDING – separation of CHURCH AND STATE !!

       … that, as part of what ever church runs them, in some form or another, there’s too much chance they’d direct the funds to the church (tithing is down, so I hear)… the lines would blur rapidly.

  • http://twitter.com/TominousTone Thomas Lawson

    But let us be reminded how often Congress is opened with a non-Christian prayer…and what happens when it is…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9To30Hz7A&feature=player_detailpage

    • Blanc_Slate

      Great example buddy

  • MyScienceCanBeatUpYourGod

    Silly Christians… religious freedom is for everyone!

    • Glasofruix

      No no, i’m pretty sure religious freedom is only for those who adhere to the the only “true” religion out there.

      • Isilzha

         Yep, everyone else is deluded and in desperate need of their brand of education to get straightened out!

  • http://twitter.com/openib Guy Fawkes

    Nailed it! 

  • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

    You just *know* that the first words out of her mouth when she found out went something along the lines of: “What??? Those Islamics have a religion too????”

    • Koyote Ken

      You’re partly correct. But I’m pretty sure instead of “Islamics” she used the phrase “ragheads”. Just sayin’……

      • LesterBallard

        I was thinking she used something other than ragheads. Something like sand nagger.

  • mikespeir

    Oops.  Law of unintended consequences again.

  • mikespeir

    Oops.  Law of unintended consequences again.

  • Reginald Selkirk

    “We need to insure that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools…

    Nor radical Christian schools, one might hope.

    • kraken17

      No, those are okay.

  • Mark

    In the province of Ontario (Canada,) Catholic schools get full public funding, but no other religions get any funding.  The government of Ontario is quite well aware that this is discriminatory, but refuses to make any changes.  In the 2007 election, the Conservative party proposed to open up school funding to all religions.  When people realized that this would include Muslim schools, the Conservative’s popularity dropped sharply, bringing victory for the incumbent Liberals.

  • Becky Shattuck

    I groaned out loud as I read this story.  

  • ortcutt

    Has she never heard of the Establishment Clause?  I guess not.  If you elect people who are grossly ignorant of the law, this is what you get.

  • SATAN666JESUS

    “And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.” — Jefferson’s letter to John Adams, April 11 1823

    • Stev84

      Sadly, they were way too optimistic about the direct influences of the Enlightenment on religion. I don’t think they could have imagined that in 200 years things would be worse in the US than then.

    • Rwlawoffice

       I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be:
      sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. Thomas Jefferson letter to Benjamin Rush April 1803.

      I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ. Thomas Jefferson letter to Charles Thompson 1816.

      • Speterson

         Being a Christian in those days was very different than today. There are many other documents indicating Jefferson was a deist and not a theist. Just for kicks, search for “Jeffersonian Bible” and you will begin to understand how he felt about the Christian myth.

        • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

          To be fair, deist isn’t really a fair description of Jefferson’s views. He did believe in an intervening and providential god (which is very much not a characteristic of deism), but he did think that revelation was not a sufficient way to discern the existence of a god. The term “theistic rationalist” has been coined to describe his position, as well as Franklin’s. So yes, I would say that Jefferson was a theist, but he sure as hell wasn’t an orthodox Christian.

      • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

        The first quote, with more context:

        To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others; ascribing to himself every human excellence; & believing he never claimed any other.

        And the second, with more context:

        I, too, have made a wee-little book from the same materials, which I call the Philosophy of Jesus [N.B. This work is commonly known as the Jefferson Bible]; it is a paradigma of his doctrines, made by cutting the texts out of the book, and arranging them on the pages of a blank book, in a certain order of time or subject. A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw. They have compounded from the heathen mysteries a system beyond the comprehension of man, of which the great reformer of the vicious ethics and deism of the Jews, were he to return on earth, would not recognize one feature.

        So what you should recognize here is that Jefferson is explicitly distinguishing his beliefs about Jesus from orthodox beliefs. By “his doctrines,” Jefferson is referring to the ethical precepts that Jesus espoused, which he often expressed his fondness for.

        Seriously, stop getting your quote mines from David Barton. You just make yourself look like a fool.

        • Rwlawoffice

          You are mistaking Jefferson’s distaste for denominations with your presumption that this means he was not an orthodox Christian. He clearly was opposd to demoninations but he clearly was a Christian. He had the opportunity to say otherwise in this letter and did not. By the way, what doctrines of christianity do you contend he says he doesnt belief in ?

          • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

            Jefferson did not just have a “distaste for denominations.”

            How about the divinity of Christ (which the full quote from his 1803 letter to Rush shows) and the virgin birth (see the 1823 John Adams letter cited above)? I’d say that those are not inconsequential beliefs.

            By the way, that same 1823 letter to Adams also argues that the divinity of Christ is argued poorly from John 1, where he suggests that logos does not mean “The Word” as is commonly translated but instead reason. Yeah, definitely an orthodox Christian.

      • Speterson

         The clergy,
        by getting themselves established by law and ingrafted into the machine
        of government, have been a very formidable engine against the civil and
        religious rights of man.

        – Thomas Jefferson, to Jeremiah Moor, 1800

        I know it
        will give great offense to the clergy, but the advocate of religious
        freedom is to expect neither peace nor forgiveness from them.

        – Thomas Jefferson, to Levi Lincoln, 1802. ME 10:305

        [N]o
        man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship,
        place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained,
        molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer,
        on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall
        be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in
        matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish,
        enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.

        – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

        I never
        will, by any word or act, bow to the shrine of intolerance, or admit a
        right of inquiry into the religious opinions of others.

        – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Dowse, April 19, 1803
        Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.

        – Thomas Jefferson,
        letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim
        that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United
        States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it
        does not address. This argument is still used today by “Christian
        Nation” revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson’s
        thorough research of this matter.

  • MuzakBox

    Reading this made me want to say “Ha ha!” in my best Nelson.

  • http://twitter.com/Buffy2q Buffy

    “Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative
    Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want
    “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith.”

    Indeed. 

    • Isilzha

      Apparently they won’t ever learn since they are desperately trying to create a despotic christian theocracy. 

  • http://twitter.com/TrollZor9 Troll Zor

    Off with her head!

  • http://www.facebook.com/angel.stjames Ángelo Romeo Martínez

    I don’t need to even comment on this, I’ll just post quotes from the Founders.

    “Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” – US Constitution

    “As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”  – Treaty of Tripoli

    Any questions? Umm, no I didn’t think so!

    • Sqwidman

      What does the quote from the Constitution have to do with this? Absolutely nothing.

      • Strongo77

        i do believe it has everything to do with it,since the stupid bitch assigned religion to the founding fathers

      • MNK

        It actually does. This moron is apparently completely unaware that the First Amendment applies to the states as well as the federal government, so that any time a state tries to provide funding of any kind to religious institutions, or gives them tax breaks or whatnot, such MUST apply to all religions or none at all. Choosing some and not others is a direct violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment, because that would be an act of government establishing religion and actively trying to prevent the practice of “non-approved” religions.

      • http://www.facebook.com/angel.stjames Ángelo Romeo Martínez

        I didn’t even have a chance to respond to your buffoonery before the other two people handed you your news.  Or maybe you responded to the wrong topic, because I am absolutely certain you can’t possibly believe the US Constitution has nothing to do with religious preferential treatment by elected officials with it comes to PUBLIC POLICY. 

        • Upcookmichael

          He was being sarcastic, something I doubt the three are level headed enough to pick up on.

          • http://www.facebook.com/angel.stjames Ángelo Romeo Martínez

            Well if he was then my humblest apologies, though traits like sarcasm with unknown individuals over the web aren’t always clear. That’s why we have L-O-L’s & smiley faces.

          • Jf

            Well, sarcasm is a bit hard to detect within written text.

      • http://twitter.com/Buffy2q Buffy

         Are you really that ignorant?

        • Upcookmichael

          Ever heard of sarcasm?…jesus ya’ll are thick.

      • Lol

        I picked up the sarcasm.

      • Campbell1373

        Can you guys not recognize sarcasm?

      • Melanie

        Idiot, did you even read the article?

      • Wil

        Read the first clause. Do you get it now? The first clause is what’s relevant. 

    • Firechild

      “Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.” – US ConstitutionThis has already been breached by Obama in HR347, which he signed into law in private…GOOGLE IT!!!… According to the ACLU(if that is actually a reliable resource) you have already lost your right to free speech and this is just another violation of the constitutional rights of the people…and do you know what will happen? nothing…absolutely nothing…we can sit here and talk about it until the cows come home…but the reality is…this is a done deal and now it will not be changed…it will be swept under the carpet and hushed…just like all of the controversial decisions the government makes for you and with out your vote…

  • Dawny229

    Amazing…I can see the headlines now “Fundamentalists changing the face of America…one Mosque at a time.”

  • Blanc_Slate

    It’s crazy to imagine what America would be today had people like this woman been in charge of framing the US Constitution. My guess is it wouldn’t get far. In a hundred years or so after miraculous receiving its independence from Great Britain, they would have established a theocracy, stifled scientific progress by advocating for creationism while banning evolution in schools, and pretty much run the country down the tubes by creating very similar patterns in public policy. Or maybe the fact that the framers wanted church and state separate which is a fact that shows most in their emigration from England, explains the country’s strong start and slow progress today (if any at all). Today we have more people like this woman in power than those resembling the Framers, and that is the real tragedy of this country. 

  • Sanchosverga Service

    This is one dumb bitch, is she related to palin or bachman?

  • DaveDodo007

    Voucher program for muslim madrassas, ha!

  • Rdg7768

    Religion breeds idiots.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      Ignorance does, not religion.

      • http://twitter.com/bikee4 bikee4

        No pretty sure 
        Rdg7768 had it right.

  • meuch2

    The irony is delicious, enjoy your morning call to prayer.

  • DebbieW999

    They don’t want Freedom of Religion, they only want Freedom of Christianity!

    • Derrik Pates

      Sounds very much like the Puritans’ idea of “religious freedom” (i.e., we get all the freedom, you get nothing), and not very much like that of our founders.

  • Hockey Bob S.

    Watch it, Hemant! (And all you other godless heathens, too!)
    You keep up this line of blasphemy, and Bobby Jindahl will
    personally oversee your very own exorcism!

    /sarcasm

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      Can I get a reach around?

      • Steve Davis

        Kevin: he’s a politician. They don’t reach around, they reach under.

  • http://twitter.com/arjaizen Bob Moynihan

     Stupid is as stupid does. If
    you’re going to hold public office you ought to have an effin’ clue
    about what the First Amendment to the US Constitution means.  It boggles my mind that someone could manage to get elected while being that dense, but apparently, to people like Valarie Hodges, “freedom of religion” means only that you’re free to be a Christian.

  • C J

    The problem with these people is when they say religious freedoms they do not realize religious freedoms include EVERY religion, I do not know if you can call Atheism a religion or not (not judging just seriously curious, I mean I get they do not believe in any “God” but because religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.) so by the definition of religion Atheism is a religion but not many I know call their beliefs a religion as it tends to go against their anti god theory. I personally am a christian and I do believe in god but I also choose to let everyone follow their own path, I am not going to go thumping a bible at anyone just as I would hope no one takes their belief system and thumps it at me. I say live and let live. believe what you choose not what some one deems is the truth find it for yourself

    • allein

      It’s not a religion; aside from the lack of belief in God/god there’s no necessarily-shared belief system among atheists. As far as the religious freedom argument goes, however, it falls in the same category. Freedom to practice/worship as you see fit, which includes “not at all.”

    • Stev84

      It’s  lack of religion. And a lack of faith. There is a philosophical side to it, such secular humanism as an ethical framework. But there is nothing supernatural about it and no dogma or central books and teachings exist. No houses of worship. No leaders with authority.

      As far as the law is concerned though, atheism is treated as a religious belief. It’s why freedom of religion or anti-discrimination laws also apply to atheists for example.

    • Steve Davis

      Bill Maher said it best, “Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sexual position.” which is about as clear as you can say it. its the ABSENCE of a religious belief, not in place of one. 

    • raysny

       Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color and off is a TV station.

  • Bart

    Rep Hodges is a douche bag whose command oif history is every bit as developed as her understanding of the Constitution and meaning of equal treatment under the law.

      
    Jindal should be impeached for intentionally violating the Constitution of the US.
     
    The people of Louisianna who voted for that twit can all go drown in their next hurricane for all I care.

    • Couchsurfer

      Good news for Louisiana voters though is they can hang their hat on the idea that he may be Romney’s running mate in the upcoming presidential election.

    • http://masterdev.dyndns.dk/drslog Won Word

      If god plans to drown louisiana, surely she will tell some guy to build an arc first…

  • Scott Rose

    I’m going to send a donation to a Sufi school in Louisiana, even though I’m an atheist. 

    • A Follower of Jesus

      Please let me know if you find one – I’ve been looking for Honest-to-the-Beloved Sufi schools for years.

  • Maestro d’Allegre

      of course you didn’t. but
    then your brain only lets two cells fire at the same time, so you can’t
    think about the consequences of your actions. Republitard.

  • English_Eco123

    “I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity…”
    What a dumbo. This lady hasn’t read 1 biography on any of the Founding Fathers. Most of them did not even affiliate themselves with any organized religion like Christianity. For example, Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson were Deists. It is an insult to them and to the First Amendment to say what she said.

    • http://masterdev.dyndns.dk/drslog Won Word

      She has probably read as much bible as she has history, which for the vast majority of Christians, is “not a lick.”

      • MLE

        There is an entire industry dedicated to revisioning history for these people. Some apparently got it in their heads that anything that’s printed must be accepted as the truth, regardless of whether or not it’s fact.

    • Rwlawoffice

       Simply wrong and the product of modern revisionists.  The founding fathers were indeed Christians and devout ones at that.  Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence over 25 of them were seminary graduates. Benjamin Franklin, during the constitutional convention called for three days of prayer and fasting in order to break from a deadlock.   He wrote :

      As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I
      think the system of morals and His religion as He left them to us, the
      best the world ever saw or is likely to see. Letter to Ezra Stiles 1790.

      These are quotes from Thomas Jefferson:

      I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ.
      Letter to Charles Thomson 1816.

      I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be:
      sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others. Letter to Benjamin Rush 1803.
      Jefferson attended the Capital church in DC every week, required that the students at the University of Virgina attend chapel, funded the translation of the Greek Septuagint into an English Bible, funded the Thompson Bible,

      • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

        Does the Ninth Commandment mean nothing to you? You’ve been called out on these lies already.

        • Derrik Pates

          Apparently he’s been listening to David Barton way too much.

  • Vincentgant

    Wow! This is astoundingly predjudice & beyond ignorant. EVERY religion has its nut-balls that twist it to mean what they want…INCLUDING Christianity!!! The Muslim religion itself should not be subject to religious predjudice here! This is urning into a repeat of what we did to Japanese Americans during WWII.
    C’MON PEOPLE!!!! WE’RE SMARTER THAN THIS AREN’T WE?!!!!
    The only thing that’ll work is for us as a nation to quit being self-ritious & predjudice against others for ANY reason! The better we treat others, the less popular their radical ideas are gonna be!
    THERE’S FAR TOO MANY IGNORANT PEOPLE IN POLITICS, ESPECIALLY STAE GOVERNMENTS!!!

  • Sigh

    So. Much. Anger.

    Why ignorance? WHY?!?!

  • JanetMermaid

    I want to move there just so I can open a Wiccan School. 

  • Bretorious

    HA HA HA!

  • Guest

    How the he** did she get elected?
     

    • mambobananapatch

       By appealing to hordes upon hordes of retarded hillbilly religious clods.

    • Glasofruix

      Why have you auto censured the word HELL?

  • MNK

    Actually I’d like to start up a few FSM schools. We’d make tons of money because the dress code for all the kids would be “pirate” and what kid wouldn’t do that in a heartbeat? Plus every day is spaghetti day!

    • Derrik Pates

      Hello, I would like to attend your school. I’m 33, but I don’t care – I would be in for this.

  • Ben Wells

    As a non-muslim, all I can say is sorry.

  • I_only_speak_the_truth

    she lacks concept of the constitution, the concept of founding fathers, and the concept of equality.  if I didn’t know any better I would assume she is a tea party backer.

  • Mnshank

    What an ignorant sow.

    • Kari Lynn

      Hey! Don’t insult sows! They are smart, clean animals (despite the stereotype), something that this woman is not.

  • Erik Kyren

    Good golly.  Maybe if America put more into public education we’d get better leadership.  As it is, I’m sure she’s the cream of the crop as far Louisiana is concerned. Smarter people elect better leaders, simple as that.

  • Rainmaker203

    While I don’t necessarily agree with their decision, your statement that voucher programs to pay for religious schools is unconstitutional is incorrect. The supreme court ruled in 2002 that these programs DO NOT violate the establishment clause, and are constitutional under those grounds.

    See Zelman v. Simmons-Harris.

    • Stev84

      And Citizens United was clearly also a correct interpretation of the constitution. The Supremes aren’t always right and sometimes they even change their own opinions. Sadly, in recent years they are on a bit of a theocratic streak.

      • http://dogmabytes.com/ C Peterson

        I’m not sure what “right” is. SCOTUS doesn’t always produce decisions that lead to a healthier or better society. Occasionally (but not often) they produce a ruling so misguided that a later court actually reverses it. But good or bad, their decisions do, absolutely, define constitutionality.

  • Ggg

    The beginning of themis article is incorrect. The supreme Court ruled that the use of vouchers for private schools includes religious schools is constitutional.

  • Think people

    Apparently you people don’t understand the voucher system. Schools don’t get to “apply for funds.”

  • Abnerpaul18

    Has no one read the constitution? Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

    • David

      let congress just put the money where their mouths are and fund all religions to be equally allowable as a pursuit of happiness. Their decision would not be a direct law on religion since they would put money towards the collective fund of all religions and let them have a fair share

  • Phlurch

    As a Catholic, it pisses me off to think this is how everyone views Catholicism. We aren’t all racist bigots; there are a lot of us who are regular people. Just so everyone knows.

    • David

      i’m a black catholic. I’m really nice, I feel bad for lucifer for falling for the heavens and i’m pretty sure he must have been one hell of a racist bigot. empathy is what they taught me at my private catholic school. I think hispanics make the best catholics though, all else are lazy and unfaithful. My priest was hispanic

    • Isilzha

       No, a good portion of your priests seem to be pedophiles and the rest of them provide support for them to freely prey on the kids.

    • Fodder

      As an “I was raised Catholic, but I’m OK now”: yes, yes you are.

  • Lea Allyn

    I’m a Louisiana Democrat (yes, we do exist). I’m not religious at all but I really, really want to found a Wiccan school, call it New Hogwarts, and apply for funding.

    • Karyn

      I’m 48 years old, but I would lie about my age just so I could attend that school.

  • Ironic

    Louisiana is in line to become the new Florida.

  • mom2pekes2

    Well said.  I appreciated reading your page and its delightful insight, where as the Louisiana government has none. Of course they would be biased.  Look at all of the FB pages praising God instead of your ‘higher power.’   If you have a faith based belief in a higher power it does not necessarily mean the higher power’s name is God.  The statement automatically eliminates the Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim and so very many more religions without a second  or perhaps even a first thought of them.  Very old saying but a favorite of mine which has probably been shortened through the years:  to each his own said the woman as she kissed the cow.

  • butcher99

    Sorry, you cannot do that.  THAT would be against the constitution.  Freedom of religion remember?   Why should Muslim tax payers be forced to help pay for Christian schools if Christians do not also have to pay for Muslim schools.  Sometimes you just get what you wished for, you just were uncertain of what it was you were wishing for

  • eagle5000ksa

     unfortunately you know nothing about islam http://www.youtube.com/user/0070sa/videos

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      *yawn* unfortunately you think atheists have never seen any Islamic apologetics before.

    • David

      i’d love for my satanic kid to hang out with your islamic child and see them get along. Yours would probably be a computer programmer by 10 while mine would know all the best quotes from marquis de sade 

    • Isilzha

       Doesn’t matter, I don’t want any version of Islam or any religion near me.  I especially don’t want my government providing funding for any religion for any reason.

  • Eric Roberts

    I know some Pagans that might want to jump in on this hehehe.  

    • David

      oh i bet those kids would know a lot about the origins of many of the holidays we know now adays.. considering most of the ones we celebrate still are

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=504630 Kenji Sugahara

    Can I purchase religion insurance?  Since she wants to insure against vouchers being used for religions other than Christianity.  Hahahahahahaha!

    Rah-men.

  • http://www.facebook.com/rick.harrison.1293 Rick Harrison

    Wow c’mon separation of church and state. They’re alreay tax exempt they need to be subsidized as well? Double U Tee Eff.

  • Brooke Hanna

    xx

  • Worldgate

    Two wrongs don’t always make a right, but they are frequently hilarious.

  • Ryanissad

    I’m sad now. I live in Louisiana, I knew people were stuipt, but now know how far these assholes will go to get a damn vote! Am very sad and moving out of here as soon as possible.

    • Ryanissad

      And am a idiot. I miss spelled stupid and feel stupid.

      • David

        it’s ok man, i’m a satanist. As such I understand your pain because i love being in constant despair. they taught me loving despair and sadness in 4th grade so i can relate to you as a human of whatever religion you are. you’ll be ok

        • Isilzha

          Can’t tell if (bad) Poe…or Troll…???

      • Isilzha

        I’ve learned that if I plan on flinging aroudn some (usually well deserved) insults that I better spell them correctly!  Otherwise, it’s just not pretty.

      • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

        Cheer up, Ryan, you’re just distraught. You’re smart enough to see things clearly, and not agree with the ignoramuses around you.  

  • David

    I think it’s a great idea. Most religions are hiding behind a sroud of secrecy only found in the temple. the idea brings a few points to the table that must be considered. the benefits which consist from private education, and the entitlement that every child could have a strong valuable education with plenty of funding are really tentalizing when it comes to the current state of our academics. Also by bringing forth the religion to the kids, we can fianally know what’s their made of. you wouldn’t a kid how to kill a goat for sacrifice, after his chemistry class would you? How can all these concepts be properly taught to a child, in order for them to acquire certain values that faith provides. Whatever hatred can be teached from these old books (bible/ quaran) must be carefully examined.

    jews, muslims, catholics, christians, buddist, satanist. we can all be friends if we grow up with one another. america’s school system is a total corrupt failure guided by the religion of money greed and corruption that seem to be what all the government offficials follow. if only the money used towards these failed school systems and loan collectors (i’m thinking college kids drowning in debt) could be used for parks and places of common gathering. I think if you mix those two, social projects and private education with values and peaceful and happy faith up bringing, then i think it could work..

    BUT NOT IN LOUISIANA AHAHAHAH

    • David

      dictated but not read

    • Isilzha

      Faith is not something we should be teaching children.

      • David

        i’d like for my kid to have faith in something so that he’s not anxious or depressed when he’s confused about something. How about math which is the most objective, definitive, and true? I want my kid to have faith in math. Any math based religions want to take me kid in? 

        • Isilzha

           Dude, that doesn’t make a lick of sense.

        • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

          “Faith is pretending to know things you don’t know”
          –  Dr. Peter Boghossian

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp4WUFXvCFQ 

          • David

            I don’t know jack about how I’m alive here on earth and my brain is commanding my finger muscles to type this response but I like pretend I know how to be alive

            • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

              So, you don’t know how you are alive, but you know how to be alive?  I don’t seen any pretending there.  I think we all know how to be alive just fine.

              • David

                Actually I know how I’m alive as a functioning organism, just not why. I don’t know how to be alive as much, I feel depressed about many things a lot of the time. 

                • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                  It will be faith when you start proclaiming that you know why you’re here.

                • Isilzha

                   Ok, David, I’m going to clue you into one of the secrets of the universe.  The “WHY” isn’t really all that important.  In the vast, grand scheme of things, your “why” is of miniscule insignificance.  You really need to spend an hour in the REAL Total Perspective Vortex.  Seriously, there are more stars than grains of sand on our entire planet.  There are planets which orbit those stars.  We are just SO, VERY, VERY small.  I know that’s very difficult for you religious nuts to digest, but that’s the truth.  We are just NOT the center of the universe. 

                • Isilzha

                   We can define our own “whys”, but just realize that there is NO divine mandate.

                • Isilzha

                  Getting stuck in the nihilism loop can be very depressing.  I still struggle with it.

            • Isilzha

              I recommend education to remedy that horrible gap in your knowledge.  There are many classes which can help you understand the physiology of the brain, how muscles work, the motor functions of the brain, nerves, etc.  THEN…you can start learning about the difference between ultimate and proximate explanations. 

              Well, I guess you’re at least spending some time outside your normal comfort zone.  Still, I do suggest a REAL education.  It’ll open your eyes quite a bit!

      • David

        I agree, faith is not something I should be teaching children. I’m usually too tired to try to explain my kid religion, on sundays i just want to go to the ball game and eat ice cream with my family while we play i spy 666. i’d rather have someone else (like a true theologian) teach faith to my little punk

        • Isilzha

          What the frak did I just read?

          No one should be teaching faith to kids; better to teach them about the real world, science, evidence and how to test assumptions about the world.  Faith is unnecessary.

          • David

            Faith in something can spread to faith in many other things are kids go through to adulthood. I never knew to have faith in myself until my late 20s, my parents TOLD me to have faith but never taught me HOW to have faith. School taught me how to have faith in something.. which I later found unnecessary but i still have the “idea” of how to have faith in something in my brain. That part proved worthwhile

            • Isilzha

               That’s not FAITH!  It’s confidence in your abilities, capabilities and potential.  It’s something you can test, learn about, hone, practice, etc.  It’s NOT fraking FAITH!

              • David

                ok so..
                “I have faith that 2+2 is 4″

                “I have confidence that my wife is not sleeping with another man (but she is)”

                what’s the difference between having faith and confidence. Can’t you have confidence in your faith? or faith in your confidence? 

                Explain?

                • Isilzha

                  Well, I already did, but you’re just a  religious troll trying to bait the atheists into “admitting” that faith exists and is needed.  Confidence is something that is learned, tested, practiced, etc.  Faith is just blind, rigid belief or hope in something. 

                  Plus, you’re also trying to prey upon the fuzzy nature of language to somehow “catch us out” putting our “faith” in something.  For instance, I COULD say that I have faith that religious trolls like you will show up periodically trying to sound smart and failing miserably.  However, that’s not really true faith because we actually could test and prove that this phenomenon happens on an irritatingly regular basis. 

                  By the way 2+2=4 is NOT knowledge based on FAITH!  It’s defined and provable.  It also means something in the physical world.  I’m sure the next time you go shopping and the cashier shorts you $4 that you don’t have faith it’ll magically appear later in your wallet.

                • Isilzha

                   Just so you’re clear–even atheists will use the word “faith” in casual conversation, however, they are not using it in a way that you so desperately WANT them to mean it.  I can SAY that I have “faith” the sun will rise tomorrow.  However, my assertion is not at ALL based on faith.  It’s based on all the sunrises I’ve experienced in my life PLUS the proof of all the sunrises that have happened in the past.  Based on that history, knowledge, evidence, proof, etc, I can say with close to 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow morning (and, with science, can even say what TIME it will rise).

                • se habla espol

                  “I have faith that 2+2 is 4″

                  I don’t have or need such faith.  I have a little education in math, and a consequent understanding that “2+2 = 4″ is a theorem of the ordinary arithmetics, in any radix exceeding 4, that is provable in multiple ways, from multiple axiom bases, using at least one logic.  Its proofs need not be repeated, except to demonstrate that they exist.  Many of the proofs are such that they apply trivially many other theorems of the same form, like 2+3 = 5, 3+9 = 12, etc.  All these theorems are deemed proven without explication, in those proof systems.
                  I also understand that ordinary arithmetics are isomorphic (or is it homomorphic? Or something else? I haven’t used that area of math in many years.) to human experience, so that this theorem and the multitude like it are useful.  You may wish to now proclaim this isomorphism to be a matter of faith, rather than pure pragmatism, but that would be silly of you.
                   Hemant is the math teacher: ask him for guidance in learning some high-school math, if you’re so uneducated (or Louisiana educated – same thing) as to think arithmetic is a matter of faith.  (The quote-marks are yours, so they might be an indication that you’re just quoting a stock faithist equivocation.  If so, please read ‘you’ as directed to the faithists you’re quoting rather than as a reference to yourself.  –unless you actually are serious about the nonsense in your comment.)
                  ————————-
                  While composing the above, I realized that faithists in general, and fundies in particular, hate education because education eliminates the perceived need for faith.  The more you understand, the less mysterious is ordinary reality — the one that religions try to hide behind their dogmas and apologetics.  The only mysteries remaining are the ones the sciences haven’t doped out yet, the ones that have no room for gods.

              • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

                It’s confidence based on evidence.  You know there’s a high probability that you can do Z because you’ve already done X and Y.

                Believing something is possible or likely based on evidence isn’t faith.

              • Isilzha

                Also, you can build confidence.

                I learned that from Kung Fu Panda: Legends of the Masters!

  • fuckoff modernworld

    respectfully she gives us right wing nuts a bad name; she is tooo nutty to be tea party (and I’ve been active in TPM since beginning).

  • Animal63

    How about the Church of Cthulu applying for funds? And the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

    • Derrik Pates

      What about the Church of the Sub-Genius? Bob Dobbs needs a piece of this.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ULIKROERUXM4GWZ55VYB23W5HY Annabeth

    Closed minded “Americana Christians” make me wanna barf! I just want to gently set my spiritual teachings aside for a moment and slap the shit out of her!

    • shawn_von_socialist

      you can come slap me anytime lol

  • Andrewwhite1977

    what about muslim flight schools?

    • David

      You mean like Hijra? When the Great Profet Muhammad and his followers flew from Mecca to Medina?

  • cock cancer

    But, can she count to potato?

  • jtst

    We need to apply for a grant to start the Pastafarian Academy of the Noodly Arts. If they don’t give it to us, we sue for religious persecution.

    • Isilzha

      or…Pastafarian Academy of Science, Technology and Art (PASTA)?

      • MNK

        Brilliant. And like I suggested earlier, it would be a major money-maker because the official dress code is “pirate.”

  • Guest1234

    You so rarely see these things come to their natural, logistic fruition. It’s refreshing to see that someone who supports this ridiculousness actually got bit back by the system she abused.

  • Fletchernick2

    Does she know that NONE of the founding fathers were Christian?

    • Dan

      Not sure if your post is sarcasm, it probably is but I have unfortunately seen a few people make the same false claim. John Jay, Samuel Adams, and Patrick Henry are a few examples of Orthodox Christian founders, but it is true that most of the big names were Deists or Unitarians.

      • MNK

        But what’s interesting is that many of the Christian founding fathers weren’t really founding fathers at all – not in the sense of the men who wrote our Constitution and came up with the federalist structure of our government. They may have been signatories to the Declaration, but those are not “founding fathers” – they founded nothing. Madison, Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, Sherman…. those are founding fathers.

  • Guest

    our founding fathers werent christian
     

  • shawn_von_socialist

    “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
    ~George Washington

    “Of all the animosities which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by a difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society.”
    ~George Washington

     “The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.”
    ~John Adams

    “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
    ~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams

     “Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.
    We have solved … the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries.”
    ~Thomas Jefferson

    i can go on and on and on and on and on and on

    google nerp a derp

    • Stev84

      That John Adams quote too shows that they were hopelessly optimistic about the future of religion. They seemingly thought that Enlightenment ideas would reduce religious influence to near insignificance in the foreseeable future.

  • Eunichman

    “I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s
    Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or
    private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.

    Actually, many of the founding fathers were either Atheist or Theists, both of which are VERY different from Christianity… and the thought that we have an elected official using their office to push ONE religion down our throats is not only unconstitutional, but abhorrent!

    • Derrik Pates

      None of them (that we knew of) were atheist. Many of them were deists, however. Not all, but many.

  • http://davidbyars.wordpress.com/ David William Byars

    I called it, Hemant. I need to start making bets on this stuff.

    http://davidbyars.wordpress.com/2012/06/13/theocrats-realize-their-bill-will-help-other-religions-too/ 
    *Suddenly see separation of church and state as a good thing. *

  • eatfuckingshitanddie

    “deistic schools” lol. Nice one Hemant.

  • Ben sensat

    I live in Louisiana, how do I contact this woman?

    • Sindigo

      Really? Ain’t ya’ll got the Googler? I’m in the UK and I found it:

      http://www.valariehodges.com/
      Representative Valarie Hodges
      District 6435055 LA Hwy. 16, Suite 2ADenham Springs, LA 70706Email: hodgesv@legis.la.govP: 225.791.2199Fax:  225.791.9203 

      And I’m sorry about the “ain’t y’all” thing. Just teasing. ;)

  • David Ellis

    But hold on….  Aren’t these the same Christians that are always going on about how they’re being persecuted?

  • http://twitter.com/samjohnson Sam Johnson

    insure /=/ ensure

  • infernalpudding

    This would be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.

  • zdrav

    The American conservative dictionary:

    People = White people

    Americans = Conservative white people

    Religion = Christianity (but not of the ecumenical and liberal sort)

  • BlackJackIGN

    Huh, I never knew there were such things as Muslim Schools… Guess Australia is kinda messed then aye?

  • Winbox

     SHE = CUNT

  • Aldajjal

    They are about to have an even bigger surprise, when it comes to Wiccan schools and Satanic seminars. :)

  • Lasaluki

    “When Gos wants to punish you he answers your prayers!”

  • Noodelz1231

    What a fucking bitch.

  • Marc Voller

    Church of the Fonz all the way! EEyyyyyy!

  • http://www.facebook.com/templeofthegreekgodspriest Chris Aldridge

    How much longer are we going to allow states to violate the Constitution of the United States? The state cannot support a religious institution or a religion. What is so hard to understand about that? Politicians who try to do this need to be thrown out of office because they either don’t understand the Constitution, in which case they don’t need to be making laws. Or, they understand the Constitution but have decided to make laws against it, in which case they have betrayed the US Constitution and need to immediately be impeached. Can you imagine if this was the other way around? Can you imagine if government funds had been granted to a religious non-Christian school? The Christian right would still be crying “persecution.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/butch.john Butch John

    there is nothing that can be said to mitigate or lessen the sheer ignorance of these people. real nice job, representative. that big ol’ horse you let roll through the gates of Louisiana . . .who’s gonna open the trap door to see what wonders lie inside.

  • Holliewalker36

    It still blows my mind that 46% of our population believes in creationism. This woman is an idiot. It’s a shame people like her get any position in our government. This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom. She needs to take a history lesson.

  • dorisfrench

    This is the problem with the Republicans they want to have their way, but only them not other people.

  • ArrogantDemon

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    So, wait, they passed some ALEC bill, and now are mad they didnt think it though and people other than Christians might want to use vouchers for non-christian religious schools…..

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Oh, these conservatives, it would be high order comedy if it wasnt so tragic and detrimental, oh dear god

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/D7TM4MPJNMND7VIFGNA6VEFTJA Justin

    Someone really needs to read this politician on of America’s oldest Documents, The Treaty of Tripoli.  Article 11 CLEARLY states ”  As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”  IE…  The Founding Father’s never founded this country based on Christian religion.

    ‘Nuff said.

    • Ist

      Thank you, Justin!

  • Munch

    The original article quotes a school superintendent one Bill Spear as saying. “124 of the 125 voucher-approved schools have some sort of religious affiliation” and by the by hers a link for the bill. http://www.legis.state.la.us/billdata/streamdocument.asp?did=793655

  • Oleg

    Sadly, but not all founding fathers were Christian (there are many articles on the net regarding that).
    So let’s no  put founding fathers above Lord Jesus Christ, but let’s praise God and Jesus only.

    • wiretappuh

      Yeah, about that…

  • prvkng.urthinking

    She may be applying that she does not support an institute which pr0motes the terrorism because many think that the Muslim educational centers are teaching and promoting the terrorist groups.  This does not mean that she hates the Muslim community or is not concerned about the welfare of Muslim community–she simply maybe covering her back as to, she is not in support of terrorism and the state money shall not be used in that manner.

    • http://clintjcl.tumblr.com/ ClintJCL

      how can a school promote terrorism again?

      what, you mean by saying they should hate certain people?

      and that’s different from a catholic church hating and discriminating against gays (or muslims).. how?

      last i checked, bias crimes against people in america have killed far more than terrorism.

    • Reality

       So … in her defense, you are trying to state that all Muslim schools teach terrorism.

      Try to make that sort of a generalization with any other community/religion and see the kind of negative response you get.

      Unfortunately, you are Hodges or seem to be just as stupid as Hodges!

  • Njkahok

    This is why you Americans are so hated and you wonder why you have a target on your backs

    • http://www.movies-suck.com/ Wastrel Way

       Because one of us is an idiot?  You need to get a grip, fella.

      • wiretappuh

        I think he’s referring to the culture of unapologetic, overconfident, hypocritical shittyness.

      • http://clintjcl.tumblr.com/ ClintJCL

        Just one? hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahah(gasp)hahahahahahah

  • http://www.cyberspice.org.uk/ Cyberspice

    This behaviour is exactly in keeping with the ‘founding fathers’. Those who came to the US to escape religious persecution were coming because they were considered too extreme in the old countries. The didn’t want more religious freedom. They wanted less and they wanted theirs to be the only form of christianity out there. 

    However it is definitely contrary to those dignitaries at the time of independence such as Ben Franklin. That was the age of reason and many were either atheist or at least liberal christians or agnostic.

  • Oleg

    Sadly, but not all founding fathers were Christian, some were rather antichrist (search for articles on net for evidence).
    So let’s not put founding fathers above God, but let’s honor and praise God and Lord Jesus Christ only.

    • matt

       That’s a joke right?

    • Derrik Pates

      Not sure if Poe…

  • Jose

    digital archeologists in the far future will use this to paint a picture of how our society devolved and how we destroyed ourselves!

  • nosedigger

    I want to start a school for the FSM.  Sow me the money!

  • http://www.facebook.com/amberlargent Amber Largent

    Honestly, she’s an idiot, but I still believe in voucher programs. I just happen to believe that it’s okay to fund Islamic schools, Christian schools, public schools… whatever schools. Vouchers level the field for what options parents have and parents/children come in a ton of flavors. As long as they are passing state minimums/guidelines, voucher away. Bigots suck, but that doesn’t mean vouchers are wrong.

    • Stev84

      Voucher schools rarely have to follow any guidelines which has led to huge amounts of fraud in some states.

  • OedipusRex99

     Shocking! Great ammo for her next opponent….

    ” Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson) voted in favor of legislation that would allow public funds meant for public schools to be used to fund Muslim schools.”

     That would definitely be on my campaign literature if I were running against her.

  • Jack the Bodiless

    Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson) = Village Idiot

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-French/100000447030680 Matthew French

    Woo, go Cathars!

  • http://twitter.com/ctchrisf ctchrisf

    The Noodley Appendage will be pleased- Since Pastafarianism is the one true truth

  • Rodneyharpe7

    I wish there was a hell for them to go to.

  • Red

    The ignorance of some of these elected officials is staggering.

  • Cara

    Absolutely disgusting.

  • http://www.movies-suck.com/ Wastrel Way

    I dislike the mocking and superior tone of this article, even if Valerie Hodges deserves it for being such a fool.  

    • Kari Lynn

      If she deserves it, then why do you dislike it?

  • skyshoes

    Madrassas are us. Illiterates in government.

  • Ganderson1906
  • Shrinkidink

    I love these heart-warming “hoist by their own petard” stories. I’ll bet that whole Separation of Church and State thing is beginning to seem like a darn good idea right about now.

  • http://twitter.com/PeteCE Peter Evans

    Muslim>>MuslimCatholic>>CatholicFundamentalist Protestants>>Conservative Christian?A little objectivity just too much for you? Your disgust and bias towards Christians as a people group is showing through…

    • http://clintjcl.tumblr.com/ ClintJCL

      Huh?

    • Spherical Basterd

      But Peter you and your crew bring us so much insane hilarity. And yes, much of what religion of any type says and does does disgust us.

      Now do your Voodoo Zombie Jesus dance to amuse us further or go back to the childrens table and cross your fingers and hope that Jesus picks you to win the lottery this weekend.

  • Matt Koegler

    Unfortunately for Ms. Hodges argument, the Founding Fathers were not all Christians. Many, and I believe it was a slight majority but I’m not positive, someone correct me if I’m wrong, were Deists. They believed in God but not in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Kinda silly to call someone a Christian if they don’t believe Jesus Christ was the son of God.

  • Ramen1

    Ooooh, I can wait to meet in an Italian Restaurant and be blessed by his Noodly appendage and a free meal to boot!  RAMEN!

  • Jbagwell

    I guess people have forgotten that this country was founded because people wanted separation of church and state and religious freedom for everyone.

  • miserableoldfart

    Gee, she’s an idiot and has no plans to hide it.  Good show!

  • Papiloco007

    This is so hilarious. I was for the voucher plan because of the opportunity for some students. But after I read this idiots comment The Church of Satan High School sounds good if only in principle!

  • http://www.facebook.com/paul.loss.3 Paul Loss

    The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster wants equal time!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=581315134 Huw Pryce

    How many different flavours of stupid are there in the world?
     

  • Kevin

    I cannot fucking believe how insane and uneducated these people are.  How can you be a politician not realize that this bullshit is not only a bad idea, but completely unconstitutional?  She deserves to be horse-whipped for stupidity.  

  • EviLaz

    Such an awesome thing couldn’t happen to a bigger group of idiots.

  • http://www.tumblr.com/blog/his-divine-shadow His Shadow

    Hodges’ bigotry is perhaps only rivaled by her ignorance of constitutional and legal principles.

    The current Republican party in a nutshell. Ignorant bigots, incapable of grasping the result of their own miserably ignorant policies.

  • Sharkydog

    As someone who was raised a Christian, in Christian schools, I have to say: This woman is an idiot. What did she think was going to happen? Public schools are not, and should never be, places of worship. The thought of taxpayer dollars going to Christian schools, or Islamic schools, or Buddhist schools, or Judaical schools is so completely against what our Founding Fathers would have wanted that this whole situation would have been laughable, if it just wasn’t so stupid. Even Jesus said, “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” The irony here is palpable.

    • tijeffe

      so it goes on…..morons electing morons….ad infinitum.

  • Parking Parking

    Rep. Hodges makes some great points here. I wish she was my state Rep. 

  • GregForest

    I thought that it was scientifically proven that Buddhist monks can raise their body temperatures through meditation. You have to go to hell to do that as a Christian.

  • Legion_prime

    I am a non-denominational Christian but even I believe that funding should be for schools who teach education, not religion. We cannot afford to start a stupid war on religion now in this country. If they want funding for a Catholic school, or a Muslim school, or a Christian school, let them do it like any other institution that wants to be privatized for the children that it wants attending. Save the money for the public education system where most of the kids have to go anyways.

  • http://twitter.com/illneverusethis Phil

    There are Muslims in Louisiana? 

    • http://clintjcl.tumblr.com/ ClintJCL

  • http://www.facebook.com/gwydionfrost Daniel Parker

    While the idea of the Church of Satan making a high school in Louisiana with funding made possible by the self-serving conservative Christian state representatives is giggle inducing, and throwing in every OTHER religious group that the CC folks would be horrified in finding on that list as well just makes one warm and fuzzy all over, I personally endorse the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster to found an Academy… simply because we can be sure that it will teach a scientifically based education, critical thinking skills and reasoning. The others…? Not so sure. And do we want, as atheists, to be perceived to endorse “ANY religion but Christianity”, instead of “no religion”…?

    • tijeffe

      For many years I have envisioned a high school football game between  Pope Pius XII H.S.  and  Prince of Darkness H.S.  in North Jersey.  Once little Bobby Jindal turned into a real american christian bigot after being born again, it seems he’s done his east Indian heritage proud.  All this sycophant/hypocrite has left to do is to join the Klan.  The old south is on the rise.

  • FSM

    Pastafarian School!!!!!

  • amansker

    Atheism was ruled as a religion by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals  (2005) making all atheist organizations eligible for funding.

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      This isn’t ‘funding’ it’s a voucher program.  And I’m not sure what an atheist school would look like.  A private secular school is already eligible.  Maybe you mean an anti-theist school where they spend time studying why religions are wrong?  I wouldn’t mind ALL kids getting a good course in comparative religion, and maybe one ON the Bible, but I don’t really see the point in making it an entire school focus.

  • Lee Spruell (Shreveport)

    It just proves out stupid the people are in Baton Rouge who make our laws –

  • http://www.facebook.com/brian.d.foster Brian Foster

    She doesn’t know jack about the facts about the Founding Fathers. I bet she believes that Washington was a devout Christian, but he was not. Same goes for Franklin, Madison, Jefferson, Adams and many others. They were many deists and atheists, and some Christians but they would not recognize what Christianity today is. They’d probably be appalled.

  • Jsm2530

    It is not unconstitutional for tax money to go to religious schools. It is unconstitutional if that money is divvied up in a discriminatory way. The government can neutrally support all religions but not favor one or more to the exclusion of others.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dan-Saxe/100002967208600 Dan Saxe

      Don’t justify this crap! Why should any of my tax money go to a private school of any kind! Taxes are public money for public interests. EFFING PERIOD.

      • Jsm2530

        It’s not a matter of justifying or not. I am not even making an argument. I am stating a fact. If you are offended by what is and is not constitutional, you are always free to drum up enough political support and amend the Constitution.

    • Speterson

       Please cite the court ruling you are referring to. It is not all that simple. Government can provide funding for religiously owned institutions, but not for the purpose of promoting, preaching, etc. religion. Catholic Social Services, for example, must follow federal hiring guidelines and CAN NOT promote their religion while delivering services supported by federal funding.

      • Jsm2530

        G.I. Bill funds are federal funding that support education; military members may use that money to attend Islamic or Catholic universities, and those universities may preach and promote their religion while educating the student despite the funding being federal.

        As I said, the government may spend money which goes to religious organizations; it may not discriminate who gets the money. See e.g., Larson v. Valente (1982).

        This is not controversial as a matter of law. It is well-established.

  • Drew247

    “Freedom of religion” means “ALL RELIGIONS,” Ya dumb bitch.

  • http://twitter.com/jhale667 Jay

    That’s the kind of stupid you can’t even fix with duct tape. This idiot should resign ASAP, she’s an epic FAIL.

  • Carol

    Wait a minute.  Most Christian faith based religions don’t have Shiera law; which condemns every other religion on earth and calls for jihad (death) to infidels; or genital mutilations, etc.  If we weren’t such a freaking melting pot we wouldn’t have most of these problems.  I don’t oppose legal immigration because usually those who go through the proper channels really want to assimilate into our values and embrace our cultural blend of lifestyles.  When they come in illegally they’ve already given our values and rules the middle finger.  They have no reason to invest in our futures.

    Back to religious schools; maybe like everything else the government SHOULD  just stay out of it.  Quit using our hard earned money to help solve problems that should be determined by local communities and states.  Take a look at Denmark and how well that has worked out for them by allowing in radical religious groups.  We shouldn’t have to necessarily give up on our foundational religions just because they exist.  It is not our responsibility to accommodate their way of life.  They can stay in their country and practice what works for them there.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dan-Saxe/100002967208600 Dan Saxe

      BIGOT-BIGOT-BIGOT-BIGOT!! You are head in the sand IGNORANT. The Crusades are documented genocide in the name of Christianity. Entire tribes, i.e., small nations  have been exterminated over land in the name of religion. That religion was Christianity. I’m not saying it’s ok for Islam, but don’t be so arrogant as to think you are any different than they are. You guys have just been better armed throughout history. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/cristian.rodriguez Cristian Rodriguez

      Jews and Christians rutinely mutilate the genitals of their children legally by the means of circuncision. So your savage primitive acts are OK but not those of foreigners.,. is that what your are saying ? 
      Oh and christianity would certainly have laws as  gruesome as sharia law if civilization and secularism had not stopped their insanity a long time ago. After all both worship the same thug in the sky. 

    • Spherical Basterd

      May I ask you a question Carol?

      Does your Christian religion espouse the idea that non-believers will burn in Hell?

      If so, what right have you to speak about how wrong and violent others are, especially Muslims, when your religion condemns others to an eternal torment.

      Methinks you should rethink your thinks!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=540928402 Dominic Carroll

    It’s obvious that on the day of the vote Ms Hodges didn’t have access to the family brain cell. Apparantly her uncle was out collecting road-kill and they didn’t want him to end up under a tractor.

    • Geaux Tigers!

      yea ur an ignorant ass bigot

      • Spherical Basterd

        Step right up folks and view, straight from the bayou, a true representitive of the Louisiana education system.

  • Nodaktrav

    Please don’t allow her to represent all Christians. Don’t let yourself stereotype the way she has. Every religion is comprised of individuals with the potential to misrepresent the faith. Don’t hate. 

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P7QH6444YHPZYNI7FQBSTOQIHQ Sully

      Don’t criticize the people pointing out what is wrong with your religion.
      Run front and center and become the voice and face of Christianity.

      Or do what I did and leave and let other people waste their time defending their beliefs

    • Derrik Pates

      Too bad so few Christians seem to come anywhere close to the supposed Christian ideal. Perhaps you, as a self-identified Christian could help to set that better example?

      Or you could keep making excuses. Whatever works. I can’t tell you what to do.

  • some_noise

    Speaking of education, pretty sure Rep. Hodges meant to say she wanted to “ensure” not “insure” money didn’t go to “radical” muslim schools…unless she is looking to buy a policy regarding the situation (but I’m pretty sure that is not what she meant).

  • http://profiles.google.com/mikecole79 Mike Cole


    It’s unconstitutional”.

    Really?  No it’s not.  Perhaps the writer would care to take a gander at the Constitution and maybe read a couple paragraphs.  

    Dumbass.

    • Geaux Tigers!

      yea the author is probably less educated than the woman he’s making fun of it, at least in respect to legislation and american government

  • Geaux Tigers!

    this program looks like it’s going to be great for education in Louisiana, private schools here offer really quality college preparation. nobody is going to send their kids to a muslim school anyway,  I don’t know of a single one. At least any significant one. This author appears to have an Anti-Christian bias. Haters gonna hate, people from all kind of means are very excited about this program in Louisiana. Way to go Bobby Jindal!

    • Geaux Tigers!

      “Now, one of the state legislators, Rep. Valarie Hodges (R-Watson), just made a shocking discovery, though: Christianity isn’t the only religion!”
      like that line, this dude is a chotch with that facetious bit of douchebaggery

      • Earl G.

        So why did Hodges suddenly change her mind, then?

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rick-Sharp/1488553307 Rick Sharp

      And you have an Anti-Constitution bias.  

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HFLSBZKA3RROPTYOREO3ODK2ZA Rick

      They are using this program to support christian schools in Louisiana that are teaching that the existence of the Loch Ness monster disproves Darwin’s Theory of Evolution

  • Simple Observation

    “… what most conservative Christians only say to themselves in private”  You reveal yourself to be just as closed minded as the woman you are bashing.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P7QH6444YHPZYNI7FQBSTOQIHQ Sully

      blah blah blah… calling people out on bigotry isn’t bigotry

      • Derrik Pates

        … but on Crazy Christianity it is.

  • cybik

    FINALLY we can teach Pastafarianism using state funds.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cjarvey86 Charles Joseph Jarvey

    I hope everyone who agrees with this woman reads the following article, particularly # 4. 

    http://www.cracked.com/article_18911_5-ridiculous-things-you-probably-believe-about-islam.html 

    It basically says that our Founding Fathers had respect for the Muslim faith and that Muslims were the first to recognize the independence of the United States. It turns out the Founding Fathers were MUCH MORE tolerant of Muslims than we are. 

  • Instigator

    Snake handlers rejoice….dollar bills y’all! Thanks Bobby J!

  • http://www.facebook.com/william.phelps.524 William Phelps

    Oh, don’t think, don’t even let your mind wander… it’s too little to be out by itself

  • tam frager

    I want a Jedi school. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=574573993 Ron Wild

    I cannot believe that a politician could possibly survive such blatant racism, in a modern, secular country. In the UK she could possibly be imprisoned under our anti-discrimination laws. She would never hold public office again, that’s for sure

  • Takaihentai

    They should open a school for the actual religion of file sharing that could be fun !!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/bryan.cahen Bryan Cahen

    Ms. Hodge is definitely a representative of the dumbest of the dumb. She is also an uneducated bigot,who has absolutely no knowledge of the US Constitution nor of the religious background of the framers of the Declaration of Independence or Constitution. Further, the USA was not founded as, and never was to be, a christian nation. It was to be a nation that accepted all religions and creeds. Inclusive, not exclusive, as Ms. Hodge and her little band of bigoted followers would have.
    This is why I left Louisiana, and the south in general, after spending 15 years of my working life in that state, governed by an idiot. By the way, does not Ms. Hodge realize that  Gov. Jindel does not meet her vision of a “WASP”?
    She is one of the reasons why I have no respect for evangelical christianity. She is definitely a disgrace to the state of Louisiana.

  • WTFMFWOMG
  • ProphetLSD

    let’s not forget the Discordians, the Pastafarians, the Jedi, and the Sith!

  • Sheldon316

    Jedi Academy. Bazinga.

  • Gi

    There are more good muslims then there are terriorists and radical muslim schools. Public Education in La. has been failing for decades. Vouchers to help a child out of a failing school has to be an alternative. Our children are our future. We have to help them get a great education. Now that may not be at a private school either, but we have to try different options and see what works.  Our public school system is BROKEN and must be FIXED!!!

  • Rob

    The Flying Spaghetti Monster School of Flying.  Using public funds.  Good idea.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P7QH6444YHPZYNI7FQBSTOQIHQ Sully

    I think this is a positive story. It teaches people the value of Church/State separation. THIS is why the Government has to stay out of religion and Vice Versa.

    And now it is explained in a way that even a Conservative Christian could understand

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VKVZFCKAFM4VST6DXDFJL62ZNQ Robert

    Yea, that’s about par for your average conservative christian politician. Heck, thats true of ALL politicians!

  • Kevin Schmidt

    Oh boy! I can’t wait to go to Louisiana and start my Pastafarian School for believers in the invisible Flying Spaghetti Monster!

    Beware nonbelievers of his noodley appendages!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_spaghetti_monster

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4ZBGPE4BGI3CBWQHM7RKA2B6CM Raider Duck

      ALL HAIL THE ALMIGHTY CARBOHYDRATE!

  • Brian Shearer

    This is an awesome article and truly shows the ignorance and bigotry of the conservative right.  Supposedly our forefathers came here to escape religious persecution, and yet, we see it in our society every day.  Hmmmmmmm…..

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=807540200 Brad Allison

    What a stupid… STUPID woman.

    First off the founding fathers WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!!!!  They HATED CHRISTIANS!!!   They referred to the Bible as a “dung pile.”  

    Read some of the letters from the founding fathers.  THE FOUNDING FATHERS  WERE NOT CHRISTIAN!!!!

    http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

  • lalstl

    I wholly agree with Summer below. I have been hoping that a Wiccan or Satanist student or teacher group insists on praying at lunch in a school, just to point out the utter tyranny of the majority and pound some sense into folks. But this Louisiana legislator may have just done it on her own; hope that goes viral bigtime :)

  • T Anderson

    You know, every one seems to be forgetting tat this nation was founded on a few key principals, one of which was religious freedom… not freedom to be a narrow minded christian sub-sect, or just part of the all powerful and dogmatic catholic church, but the freedom to practice what ever your faith truly is 

    So if ur, pagan “christian” ( which by the way blankets several faiths) catholic, Buddhist , satanist, scientologist, or aethiest, you have the constitutional right to practice that religion free from oppression and ridicule…..

    So all of you talking about faiths that aren’t yours saying thy are wrong need to just stuff it

     thank you that is this middle aged while voting males opinion

  • bee

    This is what I learn for US Citizenship test:

    What is freedom of religion?
    You can practice any religion, or not practice a religion.

    I show by that and I intend to stand by it.
    The First amendment prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

    US US Citizenship Tests
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/blinstst_new.htm

  • Law Grad

    In reference to your claim of unconstitutionality of a voucher program whereby vouchers can be used to cover tuition for students attending religious based schools; I am afraid that the Supreme Court disagrees with you.  In Zelman v. Simmons-Harris, 536 U.S. 639 (2002), the court stated, unequivocally, that such voucher programs do not violate the Establishment Clause so long the vouchers may also be used for non-religious schools.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=607239319 facebook-607239319

    I beg to differ when you say that Christians only want religius freedom for Christianity. If she opposed Hinduism or Buddhism etc. I would see the point but to oppose Islam is something that anyone concerned with freedom might want to do. Sharia will do away with any other religious freedom more completely than Christianity will. SO the best thing we can do is KEEP THINGS SECULAR! No religion shall taint our public education, laws etc. Worship what you want, just don’t get it all over anyone else.

    • http://profiles.google.com/dwight.enterline Dwight Enterline

       Christian biblical law is no less violent or more tolerant than Islam. The bible calls for the stoning of all non-believers for Christ’s sake.

  • Jesse Wahl

    stooopid hooker

  • http://northierthanthou.com/ northierthanthou

    Absolutely disgusting.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=607239319 facebook-607239319

    I hoped I had found another great site but it appears you are just as biased as this woman. SO the threat to secularism is only valid if it’s coming from Christianity? Why not try educating yourselves just a bit. I will fight just as hard to keep prayer out of schools. But it doesn’t seem like this web site has a problem with a religion that demands prayer five times a day and has no separation of the  state. Why would this be so?

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      Why would this be so?

      Because it’s not so.  You’ve just completely mis-read it.  

    • BentleyOwen

      “A bad idea to begin,” wrote Hemant. And he approvingly quoted a statement saying that says that Muslims should be funding their own schools, and Christians should be funding their own. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=731921527 Mary Aseltyne

    oh goody, does this mean I can start up a private Santeria or Rastafarian school in Louisiana and get tax dollars for it? where do I sign?

  • Mama Moonlight

    Does that come with a free lunch program?:)

  • Wolfstorm

    TWIT!!

  • Mama Moonlight

    Well written btw. 

    I vote: Cookie Monster School of Cookie.  ‘Me want coooookeeeee!’ will be the motto. 

    Oh and I’m really glad she made it soooo obvious how short sighted and closed minded she is….what was it Ghandi said, something like ‘I like you Christ.  I don’t like your Christians.  They are so unlike your Christ.’

  • Nihilist

    so this means i can send my kids to a scientology madrassa, and the state will pay?!?!!?…
    what a maroon…. if the baggers could only read the real writings of the founding fathers, and how they excoriated the xtian superstitions…

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Natalie-Atkins-Larkowski/100000524178381 Natalie Atkins Larkowski

    There is absolutely nothing *Christian* about this twit, or any of the other fundies who refuse to believe Jesus is liberal. (I’m Independent, in case anyone cares)  As a believer, I feel certain that if Jesus were to return today, He’d be in all of the lowliest, most desperately poor places, and would certainly not be at *any* political fundraisers.  He’d be at AIDS hospices, and would not reject any of God’s children because of their “sins” – at least these morons had better hope so, because if He did punish us all for our sins, they’d be the first ones he’d smite.

    • Carl Gorney

       And he would be crucified by those who invoke his name on a regular basis…as well as talk radio and Fox “News”, for the obvious reasons.

  • Sithlord78

    Seriously raise your hands, who saw this coming years ago?  I want to give these idiots as much credit, but this is just proof that they really don’t think things through…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=735496453 Jane Scruggs

    Great article!  Thank you.

  • Markbaux

    Honestly, what in God’s name does the religion of the “Founders” have to do with anything? 

  • Bobjones_2007

    Priceless

  • Colin

    Hey, where do I find information on setting up a school based on the principles of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and his Noodly Appendages? Just as good as her religion.

  • Oishee

    The sad thing is, I remember when Hurricane Katrina happened. I was living in Qatar, this small but rich Middle Eastern country, where 90% of people were Muslim. And my school – one of those very Muslim schools Representative Hodges is so against (although not ‘radical’) – held a K-12 contest to see which grade could donate the most blankets, bedding and emergency supplies to Hurricane Katrina victims. So many kids I knew – most of them heirs to a billion-dollar oil company – simply bought new packs of bedding and sent them off. 
    This is what they teach at regular Muslim schools.
    Something that should be taught in Christian schools too, in my opinion.At least in Muslim countries, the government acknowledges that religion affects the government, rather than just claiming a ‘separation of Church and state’Anyway, next time Louisiana declares a state of emergency, they should specify – “Muslims need not help.” Otherwise, Muslims might accidentally help rebuild the very system that discriminates against them. 

  • Jderr18

    Islam is not a religion; it is a Theo political construct. Less than a quarter of the Quarantine and Haddith have anything to do with religion. The rest concerns Shari’a and how to treat the dhimmi; that’s all of us heretics.

    • Rfen

      “Islam is not a religion; it is a Theo political construct. Less than a quarter of the Quarantine [sic] and Haddith have anything to do with religion.”

      …you’ve never read much of the Bible, have you? Large slabs of the Old Testament are nothing but Jewish history, mythology or law. Most of Leviticus is basically a book of laws couched as divine commandments. If Islam is not a religion then nor is Christianity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brendan.e.white Emerson White

    You had me right until you got to the last line. Privilege is overused, and it is inappropriately used in this case.

  • http://hahafunnylol.com/ Shane Michael Coffey

    What a fucktard some people are!

  • Wmuromot

    Ah ha ha ha ha!!!!!

  • independent_ttt

    Con filth morons are disgusting. 

  • Jrluby95

    This is why we have separation of church and state…. Nice job Louisiana! Oops!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Warren-Richards/1316345974 Warren Richards

    So yet another whackjob christian religious zealot DOES support freedom of religion only IF it’s the Christian religion! And probably only HER BRAND of Christian!

    Good gods and goddesses –that is funnnnny. Take care and hang in there, everyone.

    Your friend,

    Warren

    Warren G. Richards
    Mesa AZ

  • Tmballgame

    Fuck! She makes me look bad. But that is what America is about. Knowing your mistakes and learning from them. I learn mine quickly (most), hopefully she will to!

  • Jrluby95

    This is why we have separation of church and state…. Nice job Louisiana! Oops!

  • Tom Sisson

    @PatheosAtheist:twitter Can we all just like and share and only add productive comments? The point is what people like #RepValerieHodges mean when they say we are a Christian nation. @hemantmehta:twitter 

  • Tom Sisson

    @PatheosAtheist:twitter Can we all just like and share and only add productive comments? The point is what people like #RepValerieHodges mean when they say we are a Christian nation. @hemantmehta:twitter 

  • Il_repute

    Ok people, I have read through your comments regarding the Church of Satan and so on and I have come to the epic determination that you….people…. rock.  That was awesome.  I…I feel so at home!  So touched!  I’ve found my people!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_BTGMX5T462NZPYA455YNKXQX7M DennisNYC

    What is it about the South ???

  • CarlosSutter

    We shouldn’t be surprised of her stupidity at that level; she is just a representative of her peers, a good “representation” of those who voted for her.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eileen-Burns/1560653482 Eileen Burns

    She got hoisted on her own petard.
     

  • Michael

    I paraphrase Animal House when I say the following: “Lady, bigoted and ignorant are no way to go through life.”

  • Doug504

    And it gets worse.

    The state approved a private Christian school to get more than 350 vouchers and the school has no teachers.  Students watch DVD.

    After that was reported, the state suddenly decided a “second round” of vetting was necessary. 

  • Lsouth

    Is she all types of slow? I mean our “founding father’s religion,” please enlighten me, what radical christian views did Jefferson believe in, again?.

    Also, Islam is a religion. Its an even an Abrahamic faith and has ties to Catholicism, and Lady hate to tell you this, but you voted to fund religious schools. Hence, you fund all religious schools, because we are country that supposedly believes in equality and religious freedom.

    Unless, your version of the constitution is different than mine. Tell me where in constitution that you have been reading, it specifically promotes Christianity. There might be references to God, but sure as heck does not say  a specific religion. You want to know why because our we had this whole freedom of religion going. As in we want to promote individual freedoms and not be a persecuted people. Do yourself a favor and read up on the Constitution, different religions (how similar Abrahamic faiths really are), and look up the word persecution…them get back to us…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=571023635 facebook-571023635

    throw her out of office.  make the door hit her in the ass so hard that it knocks some sense into her.  

  • http://www.facebook.com/manelich.minniefee Manelich Minniefee

    if she finds this bill shocking she should read the constitution…doesn’t sound like she’d be a fan.

  • Redrogue60

    I am so happy right now. I love it when these ignorant bigoted bastards get their stupidity exposed.  I guess she forgot that she lives in America where all religion is excepted and protected. I do not support the vouchers but I think its cool that it applies to all religions. I hope some wiccans or neo-pagans start a school and as the guy below me mentioned how about the Church of Satan. Perhaps a few Jewish schools too. What fools

  • http://www.facebook.com/zarcothellis Jason Cargill

    The sad part is that modern day Americans (and unfortunately it happens far too often with those who call themselves Republicans) have forgotten why the United States was founded, and more importantly, upon what beliefs and ideals it was founded. I was relieved to see that the author of this article did enough research to mention the fact the Founding Fathers were (as close as they could be categorized) Deists  — not to mention Freemasons. They rarely spoke of their own private religious beliefs because they didn’t want anyone’s faith to feel excluded. This is taken from a letter G.W. wrote to a Jewish community in Newport, Rhode Island, in 1790:

    “It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.”

    I thought the most significant part was the fact that “the Government of the United States… gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance…” I wish our government officials would understand our government before trying to run it.

  • Oylerd1

    They need to do away with the voucher system totally!! It is just another way of segregation!! Bobby Jindall has no idea about education!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Ryoma_meeiz

    Obviously she should go read about how our Founding Fathers pushed for Religious Freedom.  AKA – The ability to worship your faith without persecution.  And the part where it doesn’t ever say just Christianity.

  • Ana

    Better to just ban religious schools. What right do people have to indoctrinate children with nonsense?

    • http://facebook.com/dballing/ Derek Balling

      People have to right to whatever type of schools they want. They don’t have a right to have them paid for with tax dollars, that’s all.

  • JustBtwnMeNYou

    There is no hope for poor Valerie. You can’t fix stupid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shark.j.slater Mark James Slater

    Apparently, the legislator did not attend an educational facility that was able to instil an understanding of “democracy” and “equality under the law”. I do hope that tax payers dollars were not wasted upon her schooling.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brandie-Rauber-Wasson/1400539569 Brandie Rauber-Wasson

    “I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or private schools,” 

    WAIT, WHAT????  It baffles me how many of these so called “American” politicians know so little about AMERICAN history and the ACTUAL foundation on which this country was built. They could all use a big old FAT history lesson or two. Our founding fathers came here to avoid religious persecution and built this country on the foundation of RELIGIOUS FREEDOM (for all) not to create a CHRISTIAN based country. As a matter of fact, most weren’t Christians and Jefferson was pretty damn clear about this  just about every time he opened his mouth.”History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose.” He also said “I AM FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM AND AGAINST ALL MANEUVERS TO BRING ABOUT A LEGAL ASCENDANCY OF ONE SECT OVER ANOTHER” – ??!!!!  And it wasn’t just Jefferson – It
    was ALL of our founding fathers. 

    From the mouth of Madison and probably the MOST IMPORTANT WORDS THESE BIGOTS NEED TO HEAR “The civil rights of NONE shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, NOR SHALL ANY NATIONAL RELIGION BE ESTABLISHED, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.” 

    Our “founding fathers’ religion” huh? You just go on and keep making it up as you go along.  Your ignorance is astounding.

  • datsneefa

    Another redneck voted in that has no idea what they are doing…

  • http://twitter.com/ManzellBeezy Manzell B

    I dont think her privilege is showing – it’s her lack of intelligence and reason. 

  • Liveinpeace1111

    She sounds like a religious extremist

  • http://www.facebook.com/tom.crisp.ny Tom Crisp

    There ya go. I
    attended Catholic school through 9th grade. At the time you couldn’t
    find a protestant in the country who would support a tax break let alone
    “vouchers” going to Catholic schools!

  • Not_Phyllis

    D’oh!

  • chinob53

    Hilarious! Oh, by the way, if you would like to send her a congratulatory message for her hindsight, this is her website: http://www.valariehodges.com/contact . I’m sure we would love the kickback on her website. LMAO…

  • Kstephen

    Just the typical teabagger who invokes the founding fathers but has no idea whatsoever who they were or what they were about. Theists, deists, and PLENTY of atheists.

    • Rwlawofice

      Name one founding father who was an atheist.

      • Rich

        JAMES MADISON.

        • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

          No (or should I say, NO). James Madison was an Episcopalian. He was definitely strongly in favor of church-state separation, though.

      • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

        Given that “atheist” was a pejorative term, it’s unlikely that you’d find any well-known figure who professed atheism even in private letters.

        That said, you are correct that there is no evidence that any of the Founding Fathers were atheists, and there is also plenty of evidence to suggest that not all of them were orthodox Christians (although some were). And most importantly, they left us a government that was unabashedly secular, omitting (to the consternation of the devoutly religious Christians both of the day and since then) references to God and inserting a ban on religious tests for office. This pissing contest about which camp gets to claim which Founding Fathers is pointless because they created a secular system to avoid all of these sectarian issues.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brandie-Rauber-Wasson/1400539569 Brandie Rauber-Wasson

        Thomas Jefferson was pretty damn close.

  • swampwiz

    HA HA!  (BTW, I live in the same redneck Florida Parishes section of Louisiana not too far from Livingston Parish.)

  • Dizcuzted

    Are there Diest schools popping up in Louisianna?  Because they’d have to outnumber Christian schools about 3 to 2 if they wanted to represent the Founding Fathers.

  • Dizcuzted

     Identical, actually.  The only difference is semantics.

  • Dizcuzted

     Why would you consider it absurd?  They’re both equally nutty in my experience.  The only thing making Mormonism different than Scientology is about 130 years between their founding charlatans pulling random ideas out of their asses.

  • Dizcuzted

     I think you misspelled “moron”.

  • Jean Dobbin

    Oy.  If this wasn’t so funny it would be tragic.  I am always astounded when Christians show their bigotry .. but to call the founding fathers Christians is the epitome of newspeak .. as Deists (most of them) they were wise to emphasize that, for their vision to survive, there must be a wall between *church* and state. 

    • Derrik Pates

      And even those who were Christians, like James Madison, knew good and well why that high, strong wall was necessary.

  • shivabeach

    I have to ask, why havent the states courts determined this to be unconstitutional to start with?

    On the other hand, Valarie Hodges is dumber than a box of hats

    • Derrik Pates

      Someone has to bring a challenge in court for it to be ruled un-Constitutional. The Supreme Court can’t just step in and say “uh hey guys, you can’t do this, this is against the Constitution”. Hopefully someone will do so – because this is a situation that needs it.

  • Jim Linsley

    “I won’t go back home and explain to my people that I supported this,” Republican state Rep. Kenneth Havard said, referring to the vouchers “that fund Islamic teaching.”   

    She DID support it.  Obviously she will lie to her constituents too. 

  • Claypaulmurray

    I have one word for all of you….well, depending on how the state works it could be two. Impeach, or recall, this ignorant politician making decisions for us. We can do better! If this is not possible, I beg you to leave the state.

  • Visitor

    Brilliant commentary on a stupid sectarian law.  Also, clever “friendly atheist” reversible upside-down logo!

  • Jenny

    An interfaith school that accepted many religions would be nice.

  • Santiago Billy

    Making a Pastafarian school would also qualify in the name of his Noodliness, RAMEN.

  • Robinsondam

    The founding fathers religion? The founding fathers deliberately kept their religion out of the matter despite what these religious idiots would have us believe.

    • Derrik Pates

      Many of them were Deist. But even those that were not (James Madison, anyone?) knew perfectly well why this sort of thing was a terrible, terrible idea, and the poor track record religion really had.

  • Nightfly04

    can we start a pastafarian school?

  • Bluedagger1

    These Foolish “Representatives”  can’t seem to grasp the concept that Goverment funds for “religious groups” are either for ALL beliefs….equally……or NONE…equally.     Sadder Still …is that these same “Representatives” who are supposed to follow the Constitution….. can’t get it through thier heads….that the United States…is NOT a “Christian” or any other  Theocratic based Nation….     One would think that after Congress/Senate READ the entire Constitution word for word on Network TV a while back…they might of caught that bit.

  • Omalleydp

    you shouldn’t be an elected representative unless you understand the Constitution

  • trekmuse

    I think an Atheist school should apply, right next to a Pagan school. Feh, on fundamentalist Christians.

  • raysny

    I propose the new “Barton Rule”. Anyone who uses David Barton as a legitimate source in an argument loses and the only proper response is “Barton. Hahahahahahahaha.”

  • raysny

    Atheists, humanists, and freethinkers have been telling jokes and publishing cartoons about this sort of thing happening for years. Guess the Republicans have never seen or heard them because they have no sense of humor.

  • Cmcavall

    How do we get citizens of Lousiana to stop voting for Republicans?

    • http://www.facebook.com/cstotland Cary Stotland

      You’d have to kill them first.. ;-)

  • Timroy

    Some of this is very funny and some went right over my head, way too intellectual for me.
    But, I think it is time to get serious about these fundamentalist and their agenda.  They are not only haters of Islamist, but off people who accept Islamist as their neighbors.  The hypocrisy of these people is jolting and alarming.  I have a cousin, a minister, who wrote to me over the weekend to tell me that a line has been drawn in the sand.  I cannot be an Atheist, or Deist,
    or have my own thoughts of how I should believe in God.  I have told him I believe in God, just not his.  He said I have to make a choice, either choose Jesus ,or, and he left the alternative implied.  The punisihment he implied does not take place in hell, but that the believers and teachers of Christianity will be ruling this country by the rules of the Bible.  I have to make a choice now.   Would I accept Jesus with a gun at my head?  I assume he will be the Inquisition Czar.  These Zealots, pro Israeli, hot heads are coming out of the wood work.  My cousin believes that Jerusalem will be the center of the Christian world. 

    • Ist

      Tim, one thing you need to get straight before discussing this with folks, lest they misunderstand you.  “Muslim” is what you call someone who practices Islam.  “Islamist” is more equal to “Evangelical”  or “Fundamentalist,” or someone who practices an extreme form of  his religious path.  So… again….  Muslim=Christian=Jew=Buddhist.   Islamist=Fundamentalist=Orthodox Jew=Jainist.  

  • Basicwil

    Someone please explain how vouchers are used to fund a faith. Vouchers are used to provide an education alternative to those who may not have options when it comes to their children’s education. Contrary to the writer’s misguided claim the funds are not used to promote religion or a faith. The child using the voucher is not required to take a religion course to attend the schools.

    • Speterson

       If that educational alternative is at a religious school, it is very likely the student will receive indoctrination. In addition, history & science curriculum is often altered to meet the beliefs of the religion/denomination. Add the religious icons, scheduled daily prayers, etc. and it amounts to promoting religion.

      Personally, I was raised a Catholic in a small southern town (one PUBLIC high school) dominated by Southern Baptists. We didn’t have school dances because the Baptists thought it was a sin. Catholics love to dance! We also prayed each morning – “The Lord’s Prayer”. Catholics say the “Our Father” – a different version. The message was clear to me – they had the right religion and my parent’s religion was the wrong one. Just imagine being Jewish or Islam and having to say a Christian prayer!

  • Basicwil

    Strange how an high school math teacher is unable to put 2+2 together. First, vouchers have been deemed constitutional by the courts despite your fraudulent claim. Second, vouchers are an educational construct and not a religious one. You know who opposes vouchers? Corrupt teacher’s union whose main purpose is to protect incompetent teachers oppose vouchers. Ask yourself why.

    • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

      Hemant’s claim about the constitutionality of vouchers may be wrong, but it’s not fraudulent. Also, you obviously don’t understand the function of teachers’ unions.

  • Kingsleyjn

    This entire article is a fact less attempt to deceive the gullible. I have no respect for the ignorant legislator but even less for the writer who openly prints falsehoods to promote his agenda. When you can provided evidence vouchers are being used to fund a faith as you allude too, I’ll listen. But you and I both know you’re full of bull. Luckily for you your readers appear to be none too bright.

    • dog_is_love

       so, you didn’t read the article, then?

  • Geefacc2

    School vouchers are not unconstitutional. And they don’t ‘fund someone’s faith,’ paranoid atheist blogger, they return the coercively obtained tax money that parents lost to pay for other kids’ schooling. Whether or not it’s a religious school is immaterial as  long as it’s going to a school.

    Parents should be given vouchers if they don’t want their kids going to public school – or not pay an appropriate amount in taxes. The more competitive schools are for funds the more they will cater to their clients. Eventually, vouchers could drastically improve the product of K-12 education.

    As for your calling out an unprincipled politician, I salute you.

    • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

      First, the fact that you call it “coercively obtained tax money” is pretty telling.

      Second, public education is a public good and is intended to benefit everyone, even people who are not and will never be parents.

      Third, there is no clear evidence that vouchers would actually improve outcomes at all. The insinuation that competition would work in public education, which is an entirely different beast than higher education, isn’t well-founded, frankly.

      Fourth, vouchers are more likely to hurt public education than help it, since it would hurt already-strapped districts by taking away some of their revenue.

      Fifth, there would have to be accountability systems in place for private schools if they are going to receive money that would go to public schools.

    • http://squeakysoapbox.com/ Rich Wilson

      Voucher programs aren’t in general unconstitutional.  The main sticking point seems to be the availability of a variety of schools, including secular schools.  So as long as the parents have the option of a secular school, also having the choice of a particular religious school is not a violation of the establishment clause.  There are some exceptions though.

      The Arizona Supreme Court on Wednesday declared the state’s school-voucher programs unconstitutional because they violate a ban against appropriating public money for private or religious schools.

      http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2009/03/26/20090326vouchers0326.html

      There was an interesting one (in TX I think?) where parents are given a tax credit if they send their kid to a private school.  It’s exactly the same effect, but since it’s worded as a tax credit, the court refused to hear the case saying plaintiffs didn’t have standing.For calling out an error, I salute you.  As for tax money- hey, it’s all ‘coercive’, if you want it to be.

    • Aliza

      A school voucher will only continue to play into treating education as a business model, which always has the same effects: the schools that have impoverished, under-performing students will continue to have their school budget and resources slashed, which leads to further under-performance with the unstated intent of shutting down the schools and “reopening” them with only 50% rehiring of former staff who apply as a form of union busting. School vouchers just play into this union busting, and all it is is a means for politicians to try to frame “public schools” or “teachers” as the enemy when they are the very entity responsible for cutting the budgets that would help failing districts in the first place, and who continuously ignore the underlying issues in communities that are under-performing. Vouchers severely harm public education, its students, its communities and its employees.

  • David Leibowitz

    Funny thing, I’m Jewish and I always thought America included me.

    • Aliza Finkelstein

      Yes, me too. I always find these occasional sadly unashamed political attempts at reconstructing the nation as an exclusively Christian nation that marginalizes the citizenship of other religions to be very, very disturbing.

  • Bob

    THAT IS WHY THERE IS AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE

  • guest

    I have been trying to explain this principle to my fundamentalist Christian family for years…they just can’t get it.  Or sadly they just don’t want to get it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ron.heaslet Ron Heaslet

    I wish this was the exception.

  • http://learnstofly.tk Klem

    That is just plain hilarious, your own bigotry backfires and you cannot ignore it any longer…. I just love that…. I’m moving there and will asks for funds to create the Invisible Pink Unicorn College and the Pastafarian Noodle University

  • John

    I gave my opinion of Rep Hodges ignorance and bigotry on her  face book page please do the same

  • Charliecover

    maybe we should each start a religion and apply for funds.  that way we won’t have to work.  i mean, we’ll work at getting people to pay into our “mission” to convert the poor suffering disbelieving souls.  

  • Wrickman1

    Our founding fathers may have been Christian in numbers since a majority were slave-owners, but those who actually did the constitution were Deists. The only prominent Christian framer was John Adams, and he was a Congregationalist, and they deny the divinity of Christ.

    The percentage of our population  who were Christians in 1776 was 18% By the time the Constitution was written in 1787 that percentage had shrunk to under 16%.

    Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Paine, Madison, Gouverneur Morris (Who gave more speeches than  anyone, composed the first draft, wrote the beautiful Preamble, and is the principal author of the Constitution) and any other notable contributors you can name were Deists or atheists.

    History is the great truth-giver, and you can Google what I have written and you will find that what I have spoken is the truth.

    No, we are not, nor  have we ever been, a Christian Nation, and this was established by Congress in 1797.  It is easy to say the founders were Christians, but it is not true.

    Muslim Schools are just as appropriate recipients of these fund as are schools of any faith — Bahia, Hindu,  Buddhist et al. Voodoo, anyone?  Scientology?

    You could not write a law giving money to Christian Schools alone.

    W. Maurice Rickman

  • Max W.

    Isn’t Wiccan also a recognized religion? I. Cannot. Stop. Laughing.

  • Ramakant Kumar

    I think this is problem of their concrete thinking that she just think about her community. America is a country of freedom. You can’t bound Americans in your thinking. You should apologize about this.
    That’s a <

  • Spydar71

    Oh. I guess the concept of equality is a new one. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Did we forget that our government can’t and is constitutional prohibited from picking one religion over another?

  • N5uv

    Great article in Slate about the new bill in Florida for allowing an “inspirational message” to be allowed, by the students of course (to avoid the obvious legal challenge).  At the end of the article, they basically said by this same token, just how receptive are school administrators going to be to this law when an atheist gets their chance to speak. 

  • Wufan81

    What a dumb bitch. I did not serve overseas defending the constitution to have a political leader piss on all we fight for. I am ashamed to be an american right now.

    • MargaretEDavis

       You shouldn’t be ashamed to be an American, what you should be ashamed of tho is being a republican they are the ones who want to control you and the things you fought for ..

  • Emma Charlotte-Duerre

    Stupid people believe that Muslim terrorists were responsible for 9/11.

  • Siaazimi

    Not the Muslim ones?? WOW lady!! You and your buddy W can change this country in to a ……..

  • T.A.

    The LA representative is too typical of southern “Christian” bigots: racism hiding behind her capped teeth. I would bet she cuts food stamps, also.

  • http://twitter.com/TheGrayAdder The Gray Adder

    Astounding that people can be so ignorant.  I like Summer Seale’s comment about the Church of Satan.  Without looking at the other 756 comments, I’m sure quite a few mention Flying Spaghetti Monsterism as well.  I have a private pipe dream that I could create an open-source religion that declares the abuses and weaknesses that cause other faiths to be co-opted by hucksters, bad politicians, and such to be sins.  I kind of appreciate the ideals of early Protestants that no one should rely on being a minister as a career; they should all have to work for a living.

    What do you say? I think this could catch on. It could make every other faith on Earth obsolete.

    • MargaretEDavis

       I think we would have a lot less of those preachers and their religions out there if we took away that tax free status. Just look at how rich these people are getting and it being used for their personal benefit, funding schools, and we are the ones paying, because they are getting to keep the tax money they don’t have to pay.

  • MargaretEDavis

    So you want your religion to be able to take taxpayer money, which a lot of them don’t want it to be given to, BUT, you don’t want any other religion to be able to get that same taxpayer money. How selfish. Just remember that there are hundreds of different religions . that just because you want the government to fund your religion only you would be breaking the law.

  • Free Thinker

    All free thinkers would be served well to stop referring to this non-existant religion called Christianity.  There is not religion called Christianity, it is a made up term to bundle together 100′s of disagreeing religions so that they have more political power than they would separately while ignoring that each sect is has a number of mutually exclusive beliefs which say the other sect will burn in hell for not believing what they believe.

  • Ian Reide

    hahahaha. Made my day.

  • Kasot

    There are Christian denominations to which I would not want my tax money going to..  I don’t agree  that non believers should be forced to pay for religion if they object , No one should be forced to support church sponsored charities or schools.

  • Swapnshare

    There is a new term making its way around the news sites and blogsphere for actions like these by our Republican politicians and it is called Republinut!

    I’ll be sure to let our friends over at http://www.republinut.com know. You should too!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1314673505 Monica V Lucas

    I hope that they unwittingly fund everything from Buddhism to witchcraft. Arrogant cretin!

  • http://www.facebook.com/david.bielut David Bielut

    “Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person’s life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the “wall of separation between church and state,” therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”

    - Thomas Jefferson

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=662168091 Rebecca Davis-Nord

      I love these sentiments – but this is not a Thomas Jefferson quote. It is from a scholar named Eyler Robert Coates, Sr.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=683420563 Patti Ski

    bobby your plea to stop being the party of stupid is falling on deaf ears…

    lmfao…

  • Jesse

    Hm. Can I open a Jedi Academy? How about a Witchcraft and Wizardry school, using Wicca as the basis.

  • LiberalConservationist

    How can anyone this stupid be elected to any public office? Maybe they thought she was running for public orifice!

    • http://www.facebook.com/SanAndreasX Andrew Wilson

      It’s Looseyanna. Enough said.

  • Miss_Ann_thrope

    **Face palm!*** Seriously?!? How do these idiotic officials become elected? Is the state of Louisiana completely brain dead?!?

  • PFL1982

    what about Jews? What a dipshit.

  • Guest

    I hope no one tells her about the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.v.pelletier Michael V. Pelletier

    See Zelman v. Simmons-Harris – use of vouchers at religious schools is, in fact, Constitutional, per the US Supreme Court.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1377173672 Bryan Richards

      Using gov money to fund schools that do not conform to standards should not be a constitutional use of funds. Religion is not where gov’t money should be going, now or ever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000258694680 Brenna Dawkins

    Why are the most bigoted Christian Republican’s also the most ignorant and the loudest?

  • Wayne Gifford

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA thud. Sorry, I just laughed my ass off

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=574401415 Denis Freeland

    “We need to insure (ensure maybe ?) that it does not open the door to fund radical Islam schools”

    Does that mean that “radical christian schools” should be excluded too ?

  • http://www.facebook.com/kc.halas KC Halas

    Same old dodge used like she invented the notion! Hoe original. How unpredictable. How self absorbed and high on yourself must you be to think you “sneaked one by”. Like a 2 year old stealing a cookie while you watch and bewildered when they are caught.

  • PirateJohn

    “America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity”

    BZZZZZT!!!! Wrong! Less than half were Christian, dearie.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JoshSaucier79 Joshua Saucier

    the voucher program was not created to “pay for religious schools” as you say, it was created to allow under-privileged children to go to a better school because louisiana’s public schools are horrible. with that being said, it was a stupid idea, maybe they should just fix the public schools, but it is exactly for this reason that the seperation of church and state exists, and this country was founded on the principle of religious freedom not christianity. how does someone this ignorant even get elected

  • http://www.facebook.com/DaBookie Danny Cackler

    This woman has done what I thought was an impossibility. She has proven that she id dumber than Sarah Palin and more bat-shit crazy than Michelle Bachman. That’s the trouble with being at the deep end of the gene pool, always somebody gunning for your position. As Bugs Bunny would say, “Sheesh, what a maroon!”.384 is DUH

  • corlena

    “I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere…”
    I completelt agree with her on that.

    • http://www.facebook.com/SanAndreasX Andrew Wilson

      Fair enough. But there should likewise be no public funds for promoting Christianity, either.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.rodda Chris Rodda

    Here in the UK many people put Jedi as their religion on the census form because they think its none of the government’s business what their religion is – however – state funding for a Jedi School – why can’t I be 16 again – I’d go!

  • Amy

    Yup! that is the brilliant work of our government at hand, they never think of the consequences of their actions. It serves them right for being so naive and stupid to not think things through. And this is nothing, keep on begging the government to do away with our constitution and allow the gov it to take our guns. OOPS what the hell did just happen?!!!! Why are we being hauled to labor camps and being torture for thinking a lot, I guess we didn’t realized that being left defenseless really meant losing our freedom of speech and right to be individuals as well! Is a good thing millions of us would die before allowing such treated over our country! People do need to pay attention and not be so freaking naive though!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ljnolan Laura Joy Nolan

    Speaking as a Christian, that last shot about “most conservative Christians” was a bit broad. If a voucher system is in place to fund religious schools, then of course Muslim schools will be included, it’s a fundamental principle of this country that no one be cut off from government services due to religion… hello, that’s why a lot of the original colonists left Europe, certain groups weren’t doing too well.

    That said, such a voucher system has no place existing in a country constantly yelping about separation of church & state (which phrase, btw, originated in a personal letter and not any official document). I do NOT want government funds paying for Christian schools, Muslim schools, or schools dedicated to any other particular religious instruction, for one very simple reason… what the government pays for, it has bought the right to MEDDLE WITH. Idiots.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=662168091 Rebecca Davis-Nord

      “A personal letter” written by one of the Founders to describe their collective official intentions regarding disentanglement of religion and government.

  • Kaddy

    One of the greatest myths in America is that the Pilgrims left Britain because they were being oppressed and wanted religious freedom. The truth is (read a book before you refute this) that they left Britain because they were not allowed to persecute OTHER sects of Christianity. They wanted to go to a new world so they could establish a fundamentalist colony where everyone would be compelled to follow only their version of Christianity. That ideal is still alive and well in the Excited States.

    • Steve Wilds

      Absolutely spot on. If more people read history fewer people would be wed to the ridiculous fairy tales of national myth.

  • http://twitter.com/LovelyFam5 Cules

    She has failed in her oath. I think they need to have some kind of oral and written test on the constitution before they are even allowed to run. Can she not be removed?

  • scrzbill

    Rocks are smarter than the legislature in Louisiana. Deist+founders specifically pointed out Christians as a threat to the countries survival.

  • Obama

    It’s unconstitutional? Really? Why do we Christians have to pay for your Public Schools even if our kids don’t go there? What about abortion and Planned Parenthood getting Fed grants? Now that’s unconstitutional making me pay for something I didn’t vote for!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=662168091 Rebecca Davis-Nord

      Not sure what constitution you’re reading, but the US Constitution doesn’t make any mention of the government being barred from “making [you] pay for something [you] didn’t vote for.”

  • Obama

    What’s unconstitutional is you removing my post! Coward!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=662168091 Rebecca Davis-Nord

      You seem to be mistaking the author of this column for the government. Your constitutional right to “free speech” prohibits the *government* from limiting your speech, not the owner of this website.

  • Obama

    Unconstitutional? That’s a laugh! Like paying for abortion with tax dollars! LOL

  • Funny

    The shock when she finds out Muslims and Christians pray to the same god.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bryan.cahen Bryan Cahen

    They just keep growing them stupider and more bigoted in Louisiana

  • Bovinity

    “The founders’ religion?” Does this moron realize that a large number of the “Founding Fathers” were atheists? These righties get the founding fathers and the pilgrims confused constantly. The original pilgrims who came here to practice Christianity and the guys who won the Revolutionary War and signed the Declaration of Independence were NOT the same peeps and came several generations later. God, (no pun intended!) these people ARE ignorant, they promote ignorance, they scoff at science, and believe in a fairy tale. I also love the way they’re all for laws that infringe on everyone else’s rights, but you try to do anything that infringes on them or what they consider to be their rights in any way, and all hell (pun intended) breaks loose!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Kimberly-Lovett-Pace/1094357714 Kimberly Lovett Pace

    I went to a Christian school and a public school growing up. I have had children who have gone to both. I have noticed that neither I, nor my children, ever did not have what was needed when we went to private school. I did however, see then (and continue to see as a teacher) public schools that do not have up to date equipment being used properly, current textbooks, or enough consumable workbooks/practice books for each student.

    The money in any of our states should not be used to fund private education whether it is religiously affiliated or not.

    The money should be put where it is needed to improve schools. Schools should be allotted enough to make sure schools have enough paper, ink, and other supplies to make school work productive. Do you have any idea how much filler paper an elementary class uses just in one week? This does not even cover pencils. And no, a lot of parents never buy the first bit of school supplies – especially after the beginning of the year. Some parents (precious ones) bring stacks of paper (filler and copy) to teachers, buy pencils for their child’s class, bring glue they got a good deal on, and bring bags of snacks (for the ones whose parents do not send anything).
    Schools and school systems need to quit wasting money on consultants to tell them what to do better and ask teachers and principals who know better than anyone what a school needs; what a child needs in school. Use that money to hire more teachers and make smaller classes. Quit wasting money on standardized testing that is showing us more and more every year that all students learn from testing is how to take a test. If there is not retention there is not learning.

    I think these ignorant states that pass laws that allow state collected tax monies to be used to put someone’s child through private school (no matter the religious affiliation or lack of) are going to get just what they deserve: a bankrupted state education budget and a state full of every type of “church” affiliated school you can think of and no, Representative Hodges, most will not be “Christian.” In fact, most won’t even care if your child learns. The people like Representative Hodges need to grow up and see they are not the only recipe in the book and quit acting like they are. She did go to college, right? Hmm…didn’t find that on her web site. I’m not sure what her stance on Education is, but I am quite sure she needs to broaden her viewpoint. No, not her beliefs. She can be as Christian as she wants. She just needs to be able to see the entire picture. To do that, sometimes you have to get up from your comfortable spot and have a look at even the things that might make you uncomfortable – to start with.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Barbara-Hodges/100000863918892 Barbara Hodges

    So she is dumb, dumber, dumbest of ‘em all….probably not but close. IMO

  • AB

    It’s amazing how stupid people can hold any job…even in Washington.

  • Dickweed

    Here’s what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the matter: “Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”, thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” I hate it when ignorant Christians try to invoke the Founding Fathers when attempting to cram their religion down our throats.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Ewers/100000726116214 David Ewers

    This woman make Santorum and Perry look intelligent

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-Ewers/100000726116214 David Ewers

    Tell her your thoughts directly

    hodgesv@legis.la.gov

  • http://www.facebook.com/kelly.erickson.505 Kelly Erickson

    Any Witches interested in joining my soon-to-be Pagan Institute of Magic?

  • Robin

    ROFLMAO! Be careful what you wish for!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=662168091 Rebecca Davis-Nord

    Yeah, we told you so. ;) (Thanks for the shout out.)

  • http://www.facebook.com/mark.bousquet Mark Bousquet

    Right on!

  • Artemis

    LOL. Bit them in the butt. In defense of the legislation though, many religious school now a days offer the best educations and with public schools deteriorating they way they are many secular families chose to send their kids to religious school for the educational value. I have several friends who went to religious schools and it had little to no effect on their beliefs, some were even put off by what they learned about the religion, but they are all very educated. While these politicians had stupid motives for passing this bill and the unforeseen Islamic issue is making them show their bigotry, I think a great deal of good can come out of more kids having access to these schools.

    • JamieHaman

      My parents did send us to a religious school, just to get us out of the public schools, in La. One of the big reasons that the religious schools work so well is that a disruptive child can be promptly expelled, and never to return. Not a problem anymore. Another reason (imo) is that parents willing to pay for schooling are usually willing to make sure some effort goes into the child’s share of the education, homework done etc.

      • limerick4

        not just a matter of being “willing” to pay. Private schools (charter, religious, secular) are not open to all…therefore eliminating those children most in need. Great for the kids whose parents can pay for it. Not so good for those less able to pay.
        Our trajectory is toward elimination of public schools and privatization of the schooling system (just like the prison system and government). When only the wealthy get good education we have destroyed our foundation. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

        • JamieHaman

          You’re right about that “willing to pay” part. From where I stand, the last 20 + or so years there has been an increase in diverting the flow of money out of society, (schools, libraries, and roads, etc.) and into the hands of the very few. It has to change, and may be changing. The question for me, is what can I do about it? Writing Senators, and Congressmen gets old sometimes.

          • limerick4

            I have been trying to find a path for “active hope” for some time. Between MoveOn and Progressive Democrats of America (joined my local chapter) I feel like I am doing some small thing to move the spectrum in the direction of democracy and information for all. And then I write letters to the editor of my local paper. You have to do something…not matter how small…it adds up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-A-Lopez/1325083598 Ruth A Lopez

    I will be founding the First Flying Spaghetti Monster Academy of Correct Religious Thinking in Louisiana as soon as possible.

    They need me there.

  • tweedmeister

    One religious school is as good as the next.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=711007776 Bradley William Bleck

    At least she’s in step with many of the founding Puritan fathers.

  • elabee

    well, I was going to put in my two cents but I think Summer Seale has done very nicely, and her followers, also! ;) and I AM a Christian. . .

  • DMC

    The founding Father’s religion was Free Masonry.

  • Dave Lanson

    Satin needs YOUR tax dollars to spread his word…blah blah blah. Just like the christian hypocrites.

  • JamieHaman

    How funny, roflmao. Hard to believe she had no clue.

  • LoudGuitr

    It’s hard to overstate the stupidity of the south.

  • Chris Carrington

    Perhaps The St. Priapus Church should start a school there…

  • http://www.facebook.com/mshryock1 Mike Shryock

    Personally I can understand why black people call us crackers.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chefjackbutler Chef Jack Butler

    Titusville once passed a city ordinance mandating that each meeting of the city council begin with a “benediction”. They carefully did not specify which faith, and each member of the council would take a turn inviting various members of the clergy to give the benediction. The measure passed with but one dissension.

    So various Christian pastors and ministers were invited to give the prayer… they even invited a Rabbi once just to show that it wasn’t about Christianity…. and then it came time for the woman who dissented to take her turn and she invited a Wiccan priestess. Much anger on the part of the Council’s Christian majority. Much outrage. Bricks were shat. And the dissenting council member publicly announced that she was looking for a houngan or mambo (that’s the clergy for Voodoo, in case you’re not familiar) to invite on her next turn.

    The ordinance was repealed so quick it made people’s heads swim.

  • Brian

    I would like funding to study Zeus.

  • bladibladihark

    Belief is a disease..

    “Belief is the psychological state in which an individual holds a proposition or premise to be true.” aka. mental disorder to the degree that one can not distinguish fiction from reality. Why does anyone want democracy?

    • limerick4

      A working democracy requires an informed voting populace. Our schools and our media are being transformed to see that that doesn’t happen. Ergo we no longer have a real democracy. The problem isn’t democracy…it is misinformation and lack of information and propaganda and yes, beliefs that trump the critical thinking parts of our brains.

      • bladibladihark

        The problem is that a democracy must let these brainwashed morons vote.. And thats a catastrophe, look at USA..

  • http://twitter.com/damspahn Dam Spahn

    They like ‘em dumb down in the slave states.

  • Oosik

    Someone should tell this US History challenged Strategic Level Spirit Warrior of the New Apostolic Reformation Movement that James Madison and Patrick Henry had this same debate a few hundred years ago when Patrick Henry put a bill on the ballot that would charge Virginians a tax to be used to fund the teaching of Christianity in in the state.

    Madison gathered the leaders of the “fringe” churches and laid everything out for them. They then explained to their congregations and Henry’s taxpayer funded Bible School never passed. Even though those churches desperately needed that free money. They needed to protect their Freedom of Religion -[which requires Freedom FROM in order to work] and also protect themselves by insisting the Establishment clause must not be violated.

    Maybe someone should tell the esteemed state lawmaker that she has been subsidizing the building of Mormon temples, Buddhist temples, Mosques and such every year. Every religiously exempted tax dollar is made up for by everyone else. And no one pays whatever percentage in tithes that they claim they do. Not when they can get 20%-50% of the tithe back in their refund checks.

    “Faithful” Christian and “Patriotic” American. And she fails on both accounts. According to Mathew 6 1:18 she’s a hypocrite and by her own words she hasn’t a clue about the Constitution, American History or much of anything else it would seem.

    The only group protecting the Freedom OF Religion for this woman and those of her Sharia Law was good enough for Moses and it’s good enough for she. . . da da di di and can I have and Amen?

  • J. Chris Ross

    A committed Christian myself, I find her to be just another Christian causing more polarizing debate. Any educated person knows that our founding fathers…and our “founding citizens”…wanted freedom of religion. This means all faiths…and even if you choose no faith at all. Everyone today who spews this misguided garbage assumes that “freedom of religion” means fundamentalist Christianity…ONLY. Also, they should look up some of the founding fathers views on religion, deism and such. They might be very surprised by a few comments by Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine alone. Also, these men that she has glorified…also denied her gender the basic right to vote. They weren’t all that!

    • anuran

      She’s not “polarizing” a “debate”. She’s not interested in debate or discussion. And she’s not “polarizing” anyone. She’s just trying to shovel public money into her religion

    • bladibladihark

      “A committed Christian myself..”

      I feel really really sorry for you, no man deserves such a life..

  • Yootha

    Stupid bitch – hilarious!

  • limerick4

    “Idiocracy” here we come.

  • limerick4

    Public taxation for Private schooling is robbery.

  • disqus_6BElIB8adJ

    Wow religion must die so mankind can live. Stephan hawking has said that humanity only has 200 years left at best before these religions in there quest to kill each other to prove there god is better destroys us all.

  • cary0

    Be careful what you wish for — or vote for. I wonder if she’s a victim of the Conservative efforts to dumb down education. If so, it worked.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jon-Priest/100001000125045 Jon Priest

    My atheist daughter said she would be happy to go to a Satanic school.

  • Prem Kumar

    Sounds like the Puritan hypocrisy is alive and kicking amongst the Conservatives

  • wen_cho

    Lest we forget: Scientology,Hinduism, Buddhism,Shinto,Bahai,Janaism,then the Shia and also Sunni branches of the Muslim faith,etc,etc.
    Let’s get ‘em all funded with those good ol’ boy tax dollars.
    I’m for it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Stanton5 Stanton Fink

    “Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves to private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith. Everyone else can fend for themselves.”

    Correction, everyone else can fend for themselves only at the conservative Christians’ explicit permission, if they are permitted to do so at all.

  • Donnie Blansit

    Maybe enough death will not let this in Bama !!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/collean.wilson Collean Wilson

    The founding fathers shunned all religion. Has this heifer ever ready anything printed about the founding fathers…… NO. [“I actually support funding for teaching the fundamentals of America’s
    Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity, in public schools or
    private schools,” the District 64 Representative said Monday.]

  • http://twitter.com/wheresmyzoloft Melody Adams

    Don’t like lumping people into one category. I’m a conservative and don’t believe they should fund “religious” schools at all. If I have to pay taxes for school, I would prefer Christian schools only, but we don’t get to pick and choose.

  • Barry Johns

    Somebody needs to send this man to hell sense he dont believe in Heaven.He shouldnt be allowed to be a school teacher and if he is.He should be watch close because children look for someone to follow or believe in that will give them attention.This man is nothing more than a child molester.He should have to register as a Atheist so christians could keep there kids away just as they would a child molester.

    • Madison

      wow. I’m so offended by this comment. You think atheists are somehow on the same plain as child molesters?!

      I hope you don’t have children; the psychological abuse you must have put them through could ruin them.

    • TheRabbitHole

      You had better watch who your calling a child molester, there is more documented evidence of molestation from priests than from many other secular entities. Should we register all Christians so we can keep our kids away from child molesters?

    • http://journoactivist.com/ Michelle Solomon

      Are you familiar with the terms “defamation” and “slander”? If not, I’m sure Hemant Mehta here can give you a lesson through the courts.

      Maybe he can also teach you the difference between “their” and “there”, “sense” and “since”, as well as subject-verb agreement? Oh, and I think a course in simple punctuation would do you wonders.

      It’s a shame though, that none of the above will make you decent, intelligent or imbue you with critical thinking. Pity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/johnnie.simpson.7 Johnnie Simpson

    You people have the right to curse and put down God all you want.He has given you that free will.God loves you so much that He gave his only son to be that final sacrifice to end all sacrifices.No one can explain the miracles away that Jesus did or is still doing through His Holy Spirit.No one can explain the incredible accuracies of the prophecies in the Bible.God sends no one to Hell.You send yourself if you reject His gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.Curse God,bad mouth him and laugh at Him and those that aren’t stupid morons that know the truth when it’s presented to them.As God is about to send you on your way to Hell ,I just almost believe you want be laughing then.

    • oedipus99

      Allah Akbar!?

    • Memeb67

      You are wrong. Our choices via free will put us in the judgement seat and God is the one to send those people to hell if found guilty. Kindly read your Bible and stop name calling and passing judgements yourself. The way you speak in this post, it’s no wonder people (atheist) want nothing to do with so called religious Christians. Most of them are either full of hate or full of shit. Either way, you’re not winning over any souls for Christ our Lord. I don’t claim to know the mind of God but I would hope He would be ashamed at your ugly comment, as am I…

  • Memeb67

    No religion should be given taxpayer dollars to fund them. It’s called seperation of church and state. The churches should fund their own schools. Then there would be no need for this debate. I love my Lord God but its not the governments job to establish any type of school that teaches ANY religion, that’s the church and Gods people’s job alone. If the church were to spend Gods money like they should instead of robbing God and buying million dollar mansions and private jets they could well afford to fund their own schools.

  • A Canned Ham

    I love when people who claim to venerate THE FOUNDERS and their constitution, don’t actually understand what that constitution says.

  • A Canned Ham

    There are also a billion Norse schools in Louisiana

  • Bill Goodwin

    I dare her to make the exact statement to the hundreds of thousands of American Service members who are not Christian!! What a hypocritical coward she is!!

  • Evolved

    They say beauty is only skin deep, but stupid goes down to the bone.

  • sentient

    There will be church of the banana, mowed grass, goldfish….. There was a reason the founding fathers supported separation of church and state. Its why this country was founded.

  • Guest

    So basicly this isn’t a atheist site right? it’s a site that is anti-christian theology. that’s ok but you realize that atheists have a hell of alot more to fear from Islam that from christianity.

    • TCC

      It’s a wonder that so many atheists support church-state separation, since it only protects us from Christianity, ya know.


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