An Appeal To Optimistic Christianity

An Appeal To Optimistic Christianity March 26, 2019

 

I’ll be honest, I’m a pessimist at heart. There’s a phrase I love that says “The definition of a Pessimist is: An Optimist with experience.”

That’s my basic posture.

But, as I’ve been doing research for my next book, I ran across a beautiful description of the early Christians that really took my breath away and made me reconsider my pessimistic tendencies.

In the book, “Universalism: The Prevailing Doctrine of the Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years” by J.W. Hanson, there’s a quote from another book [“Universalism Asserted”], which says:

“The church was born into a world whose moral rottenness few have – or can have – any idea. Even the sober historians of the later Roman Empire have their pages tainted with scenes impossible to translate: Lusts the foulest, debauchery to us happily inconceivable, raged on every side. [And so] to assert even faintly the final redemption of all this rottenness, whose depths we dare not try to sound, required the firmest faith in the larger hope, as an essential part of the Gospel. But this is not all; in a peculiar sense the church was militant in the early centuries. It ws engaged in, at times, a struggle for life or death, with a relentless persecution. Thus it must have seen in that age almost an act of treason to the cross to teach that, though dying unrepentant, the bitter persecutor, or the votary of abominable lusts, should yet in the ages to come find salvation.”

He goes on to note:

“The early fathers wrote when the wild beasts of the arena tore alike the innocent and the guilty, limb from limb, amid the applause even of gently-nurtured women…they wrote when every minister of justice was a torturer…when every household of the better class – even among Christians – swarmed with slaves liable to torture, to scourging, to mutilation, at the caprice of a master or the frown of a mistress. Let all these facts be fully weighed, and a conviction arises irresistibly, that, in such an age, no idea of Universalism could have originated unless inspired from above.”

His point here is that the concept of universal redemption was not something taught by the Old Covenant scriptures, nor was it taught by the Pagan religions surrounding them, or is it something that resides in the heart of man naturally – the idea that the most evil and hateful among us should receive the beautiful mercy of Christ. And yet…

And yet this teaching WAS found in many, many of the ancient Christian’s writings. So, he [Hanson] asks:

“Where, then, did they find it? [This extravagant mercy] Whence did they import this idea? Can we doubt that the fathers could only have drawn it, as their writings testify, from the Bible itself?”

Now, in addition to this radical idea of universal reconciliation, the author also points out another inspirational feature of the early Church: Their invincible joy and optimism.

As the book points out:

“The first Christians regarded the grave as the doorway into a better world, and expressed only hope and trust in their emblems and inscriptions.”

Specifically, as evidenced by several hundred years worth of inscriptions found in the catacombs, the author notes that their views about life in Christ were most clearly exemplified in the ways they spoke about death; at a time when they should have been most sorrowful and negative; and yet what we see instead of a focus on darkness and suffering and loss is an almost uni-vocal testimony to an unfathomable cheerfulness.

As he notes:

“The fathers of the church live in their voluminous works; [but] the lower orders [common Christians] are only represented by these simple records [found in the catacombs], from which, with scarcely an exception, sorrow and complaint are banished; the boast of suffering, or an appeal to the less revengeful passions is nowhere to be found. One expresses faith, another hope, a third charity. The genius of primitive Christianity – to believe, to love and to suffer – has never been better illustrated…in all the pictures and scriptures of our Lord’s history, no reference is ever found to his sufferings or death. No gloomy subjects occur in the cycle of Christian art.

And another scholar quoted agrees, saying:

“To the early Christians, Christ was living; the one agonized hour [on the cross] was lost in the thought of his glory and triumph. The fall of theology and Christian thought dates from the error of dwelling upon his death instead of his life.” [Ruskin]

And speaking of these earliest Christians, New Testament scholar Farrar adds:

“It was a religion of joy and not of gloom, of life and not death, of tenderness and not severity.”

As I read these words, I began to grieve over what the Christian church has become today. I began to long for us to return to those infant years where we were delighted by the life of Christ and easily cheered by mere association with Him. It made me recall the words of our Lord when He said:

“Unless you become like little children, you will not enter the Kingdom of God.” [Matt. 18:3]

Maybe we need to go back as a Church and once again discover the simple joys of knowing Christ. Maybe we need to abandon our fears of tomorrow, and our arguments about theology; maybe we need to remember what it was like to delight ourselves in the sweetness and goodness of God.

It makes me wonder: What if Christianity were more like this today? What if, whenever anyone thought of Christianity, they couldn’t help but picture a people who personified child-like humility? What if we were known for our unshakable love? What if the words “Joy” and “Life” were more synonymous with those who identify as Christians?

I can’t help but think that these are the same questions that are – even know – ringing in the ears of Our Lord and beating in time with His own heart for us.

I long for a more optimistic, happy and joyful Church. I’m so tired of the fear-mongering; the judging; the tribalism, and the division.

Aren’t you? Aren’t you ready for a brand new form of Christianity that is full of life and hope? Aren’t you eager to embrace a Christianity that reflects the joyful face of Jesus to the world?

We already have so much darkness. More than enough anger. Way too much fear.

Bring on the joy. Let loose the love. Throw open the doors of hope.

It’s time the Christian Church came out of the darkness and into the light once more.

Don’t you think?

**

Keith Giles was formerly a licensed and ordained minister who walked away from organized church 11 years ago, to start a home fellowship that gave away 100% of the offering to the poor in the community. Today, He and his wife live in Meridian, Idaho, awaiting their next adventure.

His new book “Jesus Unbound: Liberating the Word of God from the Bible”, is available now on Amazon and features a Foreword by author Brian Zahnd.

He is also the author of the Amazon best-seller, “Jesus Untangled: Crucifying Our Politics To Pledge Allegiance To The Lamb” with a Foreword by Greg Boyd.

Keith also co-hosts the Heretic Happy Hour Podcast on iTunes and Podbean. 

BONUS: Want to unlock exclusive content including blog articles, short stories, music, podcasts, videos and more? Visit my Patreon page.

 

 


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Nimblewill

    We have become like the god we were told to worship or else.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    Exactly as the early Christians described above became like the God they worshipped.

  • Nimblewill

    That was my point. A mean, wrathful god ensures mean, wrathful followers. We only love to the degree we believe we are loved. Jesus loves me this I know.

  • cr johnson

    That church is near to all but in the small quiet voices of those who love God, love themselves, love one another, love their neighbors and love their enemies. You can’t build the flashy temples today without a fear based message. No thanks to the guilt and shame. Bring on the simple servant-based church that doesn’t need to be known in our media driven culture.

  • Armed Citizen

    one of the biggest problems for this author is his inability to differentiate between the pagan roman catholic system and Biblical Christianity.

    former (35 yr) catholic, now Christian.

  • jekylldoc

    Marvelous. And it doesn’t even matter whether the theology and justifications are correct. Teaching with authority is like that.

  • Tom Hanson

    Sheesh! My first visit to this blog has just become my last. Truly careless history alone, not to mention other doubts, turns me off:

    “It [the church]w[a]s engaged in, at times, a struggle for life or death, with a relentless persecution.”

    How can persecution be relentless if it occurs off and on? This would just be laughable, if his source (one J.W. Hanson) did not go on:

    “The early fathers wrote when the wild beasts of the arena tore
    alike the innocent and the guilty, limb from limb, amid the applause
    even of gently-nurtured women…they wrote when every minister of justice
    was a torturer…when…” etc., etc., etc.

    It is plain that neither Mr. Giles, nor his source, J. W. Hanson, ever read the second most well-known extant letter of Pliny the Younger to his friend the great Roman historian Tacitus. It is a letter, circa 100-117 CE, about how the emperor Trajan responded to Pliny’s question about how Pliny, then “governor” of Bithynia, should handle the Christian problem. Trajan says, don’t go looking for them, but when they force you to make the decision, always offer them the out of sacrificing to the emperor-god, in this case Trajan. This does not sound like relentless persecution. That there were cruel persecutions under various individual emperors is certainly true. But simple common sense should tell anyone who thinks that Christianity did not expand during the non-persecutorial reigns, has then to explain how Christianity became useful enough for Constantine to ally himself with it in his bid for becoming emperor himself.

    And I sincerely hope I am not a near-relative of J.W. Hanson

  • Chari McCauley

    Perhaps we were meant to be nomads, not necessarily tied to structures.

  • Chari McCauley

    And, children will become the adults we teach them to be. Trust becomes a major issue, especially when any authority is abused.

  • Chari McCauley

    There is that. The Romans couldn’t crush the new “love your neighbor” concept, so they put up a facade, and put robes over top of the armor.
    Much like when…

    the Ten laws written, did not discriminate,…the way WE like to discriminate.

    So, the “most popular” of the hebrew men went to Moses and inserted themselves by insisting he needed someone OTHER THAN The Father to “help” him.

    Like when, in Job, the jealous sons, who challenged Father, sent the accusers to Job to ask, what did YOU DO to deserve this “punishment”?.

  • Armed Citizen

    and yet Scripture makes it so easy for us – problem is, how many actually desire to dig into Scripture and what our Loving Creator has said.

  • Chari McCauley

    Living life can teach us the ten laws. We know what causes us pain.
    Lying,cheating, stealing, murder (The theft of a life not yours to take though a person can be stolen, but not necessarily killed.) all these things errode trust, and cause mostly negative reactions from us, when they occur. Thus, the laws of peace and good health are written in our hearts.

    There is a problem in differentiating the two spirits. The Oldest One unifies all individuals. The other insists on being The Ruler, and the only one that counts. This one will break all the commandments, and use Father’s Name in vain.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘Living life can teach us the ten laws.’

    what about the Bible?

  • Chari McCauley

    Can you not see both examples there?

    The Father broke it into categories, and His Son said put yourself into the skin of people who experience these things. How would YOU feel; The Father’s Son put Himself into our position.

    The Father’s Son came here to show us what The Father Who raised and taught Him is like. He put Himself into our skin. He practiced what He preached.

    Nobody can remove either The Father nor His Son from Their positions, NOBODY. You can choose to participate or not.

  • Armed Citizen

    yes, we have to have both.
    my point is that – without the Bible – we are more prone to mistakes like false religion and believing lies.
    heck, i wasted 35 yrs in catholicism before i was able to find Truth – and that Truth did come through the written Word of our Creator.

    ‘He practiced what He preached.’

    Amen –
    our living Example!

  • Chari McCauley

    Do you believe that we will be divided by religion, in Father’s house?

    And, we should not be divided, here.

    And, are you saying that you are no longer ever lied to? You ALWAYS know when you are being lied to?

    There is a difference between the light that blinds you, and the light that warms your back, and helps you see.

  • Armed Citizen

    in Father’s house – no.
    but i don’t believe there will be many in His house who aren’t following Him now – see Matt 19:17/Rev 22:14 – which both address this point.

  • Chari McCauley

    Those who already live by Father’s rules are known to Them. You cannot pretend.

  • Armed Citizen

    let’s get to Truth – since catholicism is void of it.
    do you believe the Words written by our Creator or do you not?

    because from the above Words of Jesus Christ – a person has the obligation to either follow His loving Commands (which aren’t at all burdensome – 1 John 5:2-3) and in this way that person shows God and his neighbors love – so does a Christian follow the Bible or does he not?

  • ashpenaz

    Here’s what I think
    happens at our Particular Judgment: We stand before Jesus and He gives us a
    list of all the people we have harmed, and He gives us another list of what we
    need to do to make amends to them all. Once we’re done making the amends, we get
    to go to Heaven.

    This sounds simple,
    but when we get the list of people we have harmed, we also get to experience
    the amount of pain we caused both them and God. That pain is Gehenna, the Lake
    of Fire. And, if we refuse to make amends, then the pain compounds–the original
    pain we caused combined with the pain we are causing by refusing to make
    amends. The only way out of the Lake of Fire is to make all the amends.

    The bad news is-we
    don’t have the supplies we need to make those amends. The Good News is–Jesus
    gives us all we need to make each amends. If we’ve stolen $50, He pulls out His
    wallet and gives us the $50 we need. But it’s up to us to actually give it to
    the person we stole it from. If we cling to the $50 dollars, we stay in the
    Lake of Fire.

    Jesus has already
    made amends on the Cross for all the pain we caused and sins we committed, and
    those amends will be made whether we choose to participate or not. But, in His
    Mercy, in order to get us out of the Lake of Fire, He allows us to distribute the
    amends to the people we harmed. And, bonus, He gives us the grace to want to
    make the amends.

    You can stay in the
    Lake of Fire as long as you want, maybe forever–but it will become so painful,
    you will likely want to make the amends. Plus, you will be experiencing God’s
    love and God’s call which will become harder to resist. I think it’s likely that
    every person ever created will decide, by God’s grace, it’s better to make the
    amends and experience God’s love than to stay in the Lake of Fire.

    Once we check all
    the amends off our list, we hand the list to the Judge, and then He writes our
    new name in the Book of Life. Now that
    we’ve made amends and been purified from all the hurt we caused and sins we committed,
    we can face the Final Judgment with confidence. We can walk through the Gates
    into the City of God. Once every amend for every wrong has been made, the
    Cosmos will be restored to God’s original plan, and we will all live with Jesus
    and in harmony with each other forever.

  • Chari McCauley

    The ten written by Father, and the two given by His Son.

    It’s a simple formula. Don’t be a jerk, have some compassion. Don’t steal, don’t cause harm. It is possible to teach without humiliating the child. What if YOUR home was invaded and YOUR family scattered to wherever… What if you became a slave without pay? What if your best friend lies to you?

    Yes, you can learn from the bible, but until a bible (textbook) became available, written instructions were not there. Moses was sent to the Egyptians to learn what would be important in order to mingle with Egyptians.

    Where did Jesus hang out the most? And, what did the snobby church folk say in response?
    Which of the two groups called for His crucifixion? The “friends in low places”, or the educated church folks?
    You can see which spirit runs a church by the amount of pride that comes out of it.

  • Armed Citizen

    There are only Ten – when Jesus says ‘love God and love your neighbor’ -this is a direct reflection of the Ten –

    see, Commands 1-4 are exactly how we love our Creator and Redeemer
    while Commands 5-10 are how we love our neighbors –
    this is exactly what 1 John 5:2-3 (and all Scripture) proves to us.

    as none of Scripture cancels out any of Scripture and this is how we tell just who is following Him and who is actually not following Christianity at all.

  • Chari McCauley

    The fruit of the spirit will be apparent. It really was never a mystery.
    The first command really says, if you have any questions, ask The Father, and now also His Son; They are more than willing to show you the difference between a family of individuals who all have the same goal; and a single ruler who would demand “worship”,…the bright, glittery lights that blind you.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘…the bright, glittery lights that blind you.’

    so while i quote our Saviour and have obviously studied the Word of our God – you’d rather pretend that His Word isn’t important or that It can be ignored in some way?

    there is one system which does demand worship – this can be found in Revelation 13 – and it’s describing the catholic apostasy.

  • Chari McCauley

    Well, there is Romans 1:20, and 1Cor 13, and Genesis 1:26, and John 1:1, and 1John 5:6…

    Is there a missing link?

  • Armed Citizen

    ok – but where do these have relevance as to what we’re talking about?

  • Chari McCauley

    You single people out by lables; The Father goes by the character that is displayed by a person heart.
    If a person acts because of a past abuse suffered, it is Father and His Son who took the time to see all of that when considering judgement. It is this cycle of abuse that the competition of pride/hubris/satan – a cancer of the spirit/blood, which can kill a soul/body – that we need to correct. Only Father, and now His Son can judge a soul’s permanent sleep. Pride is like heroin on steroids, and it only takes a little to become an addict. It must be rehabilitation out; only you can decide to do that.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘You single people out by labels.’

    actually – my focus has been on a system – not individuals – as i don’t know you from any of my catholic family or friends.

    ‘The Father goes by the character that is displayed by a person heart.’

    i agree- my posts have Scripture in them which testify as well to this.

    we can’t pretend that the Bible is somehow against a positive character – just because It shows that Christians obey our Creator and Redeemer.
    it’s a logical fallacy pitting these 2 against each other, called false dichotomy.

  • Chari McCauley

    Except that there are people who know little about our dogma who live the way Father would prefer they live.
    There are also those who were called out of the churches to go where He leads. If you are ever captured and denied use of a bible, would you know still what They taught you? There are people who feel guilt for lying to save the lives of others from death. Do you think the woman , who lied to save King David, and his men is going to…uhh, Hell (some eternal torture chamber, which does not equal death (permanent sleep)?

    Did not the educated church leaders accuse the Lord of breaking “the law” by “doing work” on a sabbath?

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘eternal torture chamber’??

  • Chari McCauley

    What do the churches teach Hell to be?

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘What do the churches teach Hell to be?’

    which church?
    or is it the Bible which is better to listen to?

  • Chari McCauley

    Sorry, had to go to work.

    Where did The Lord go after He died? Is He still there?
    Before the women went to the grave, where did the educated church leaders send Him for three days? Remember that Pilate gave the decision to the “chosen” people.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘Is He still there?’

    He is still in Heaven.

  • Chari McCauley

    He was sent to Hell for three days, though, right; before He appeared to the women?

    Putting Himself into our shoes, I like skin better, because a lot of people don’t have shoes.

    It is Their intention to save as many as possible. If you don’t like the people They choose, you are free to go with the ones who refuse to participate.

  • Armed Citizen

    i believe He was sleeping in the grave – as It was the Sabbath and all Christians keep that day Holy.

    also Friend – describe this ‘hell’ belief in your words – as i know what catholics teach, but am wondering if you too believe it as they do.
    it’s a miserable way to look at our loving Creator actually.

  • Chari McCauley

    The physical is easy for Them to repair; heck most of it is automated already. The spirit takes the willingness to heal. Have you ever been through the hell of rehab? Limb or drug. We make our own hell; They don’t have to. Getting that pride out, and replacing it with empathy and compassion. Not making fun of our kids for being born imperfect “in our eyes”; it all starts with the kids. One of the things that does piss Father off, and He mentions it all the time, in the OT…our willingness to sacrifice our children. And, Father’s Son corrected Peter, too.

    We don’t expect our children to be able to read a bible much before 5, do we?

    And, again if you are ever taken prisoner; they will not be handing bibles out at the door.

  • Armed Citizen

    i went through a ‘hell’ experience that i’d quickly say was worse than ‘hell’. yes, it involved my children – but i praise God that He protected them and they are safely home now =)

    ‘We don’t expect our children to be able to read a bible much before 5, do we?’

    no, not at all.
    i do wish i were a better role model though, making them want to learn about God’s Word. oh, if only i had those innocent and tender years of my children back!
    Jesus got baptized at 30 yrs old as an example for us – and a child can’t ‘believe’ and has little to no need to ‘repent’ – for this reason infant baptism isn’t Biblical either.

    but the world does belong to our children – i pray they choose His world – not one from here.

  • Chari McCauley

    Why is it too late to do that? Do you think They will ever be done teaching any of us? YOU teach them to be good people. Live what you teach them.

    Father’s love unites all individuals,…He’s no Herod!
    Take an “o” out of the word good, and what do you end up with?

    A single jealous ruler who wants ALL of EVERYTHING to himself. And, the people who help him (he has legions) are disposible.

    There isn’t a king, president or movie star that could measure up to the tip of either Father or Lord’s pinky finger.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘Father’s love united all individuals….’

    actually no – Jesus says He came ‘to divide’ (Luke 12:51/Matt 10:34) – because the false ecumenism that is sweeping this world isn’t from Him – remember:

    ‘And all the world wondered after the beast.’ ~ Rev 13

    there is a war going on and this war is very well documented, Friend –
    it’s either the side of our Loving Creator and Redeemer, or the opposite.
    Choose Him!

  • Armed Citizen

    i do thoroughly appreciate your love of children, though.
    we have 8 grands.
    our love for God first and the family next is the glue that i had reversed in my past – now that i have the order right, He is instilling in me sight that is absolutely amazing and even scary to see!

    but nevertheless – His will be done, not ours.
    and in the end – He wins so we win =)

    imagine our children in Heaven to come – playing with snakes and bears and riding on lions and petting tigers! that is the world He planned and the world that will be – amazing how beautifully the Bible explains these things too!

  • Chari McCauley

    We are to be knowledgable (shrewd); but stay gentle.
    Also, I personally did what Rev 18:4 told me, when it was time. However, I did have to learn what I was being called out from.

  • Armed Citizen

    always my Friend, always.
    doesn’t Ecc 3 state that there is ‘a time for everything’
    time for Truth, regardless of the burden it bears on both, is now.

    i pray His will for you and yours Ma’am – Jeremiah 29:13

  • Chari McCauley

    Why thank you. Haven’t been addressed that way since the Air Force.

    It’s just we have ONE Father, and He Fathered only one Son; what they do is for all. Father wants ALL His children back.

    The last will be first; and those willing will be there to see the first to fall go home.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘Father wants ALL His children back.’

    Amen ~ as John 3:16 very easily discerns for us.
    unfortunately, not all are His =(

    Air Force – my sister retired from AF.
    she told me their motto (jokingly) was – ‘If we don’t succeed….we lower our standards’ =)

    i call her the ‘family embarrassment’ – because she is so smart – she embarrasses us all!

  • Chari McCauley

    It all goes back to learning. We left our little comfortable bubbles to go out into the whole thing Father created.

    This planet is only under Satan because all children have to learn what their parents tried to warn them about, including Lucifer. We never understand the rules, until we have our own children. And, there are children who are forced to raise themselves, because their parents are still children. The proud spirit loves confusion.

    Except, Father and His Son….took the time to learn it!
    We have not. THAT is why we are never permitted to judge a person to death.

  • Armed Citizen

    though i don’t believe Lucifer had ‘parents’ – as angels aren’t shown to reproduce, Ma’am.

  • Chari McCauley

    Well, I believe we have a Mother, who art in Heaven, because Genesis 1:26 tells me so. She is our missing link. Romans 1:20 Everything on this planet is male female. The planet is one giant egg that we can planet seeds of an orange or apple or strawberry or; you can’t make a good fastener without the male/female threading…. Gender was a concept before it was given a definition.

    Else, do you not think Father is capable of (practicing what He preaches) being with the same woman all His life and bearing a Son (new seed) with Her?

    We are told that the firsts were….formed, not born. The Lord was the first male (seed) BORN. Before the elders were formed.

  • Armed Citizen

    ‘because Genesis 1:26 tells me so.’

    Gen 1:26 says nothing of the sort, Ma’am.

    ‘She is our missing link.’

    Bible indicates nothing like this.

    I AM the way the Truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except through Me’ – Jesus Christ says this, Ma’am.

    my Friend – catholicism is filling your mind with a lot of nonsense – i know, was catholic for 35 yrs and now that i have studied the Bible i see much more clearly.

  • Chari McCauley

    You believe the devil’s dogma.

    Who was Father talking to?

  • Armed Citizen

    Elohim is plural.
    God the Father was talking to Jesus Christ – the Son and the Holy Spirit was also present – this is the Godhead.

    there is zero in Scripture saying that Mary was anything other than human.

  • Chari McCauley

    Mary was a surrogate. The Lord already has a Mother like Abraham already had a Father.

  • Armed Citizen

    show this in Scripture – it’s presumption and this gets one in major confusion Ma’am.
    it’s catholic nonsense.

  • Armed Citizen

    where in Scripture is this clear teaching, Ma’am?
    then, please – tell me what your definition of a ‘church’ is and if it’s in agreement with Scripture?

  • Chari McCauley

    Genesis 1:26, John 1:1, 1John 5:6. Romans 1:20 that says everything is right here, so that none can boast.

    And, please tell me, why do you think Lucifer/Satan, and by extension, because men had all the say, women here have no voice you are willing to listen to…is so afraid of the bond Father and Mother have?

    What do you suppose Lucifer’s intention was, in the garden? We still believe the first lie he told; that all are born immortal. That is not true.

  • Armed Citizen

    Gen 1:26 ~ ‘Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image…’ – Jesus is Forever – not mortal Mary.

    John 1:1 ~ ‘In the beginning was the word….’ – no, no Mary there either.

    1 John 5:6 ~ ‘This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ…’ correct – Jesus Christ

    Rom 1:20 ~ ‘For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen…’ – yes, His attributes.

    ‘….the bond Father and Mother have?’

    you’re adding to Scripture Ma’am – God was/is our only Creator – there is no Mary because she was only human – a sinful human, just like you and i.

    ‘…that all are immortal. That is not true.’

    i totally agree!
    one doesn’t put on immortality unless he is granted eternal life by accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour.

    now Ma’am – would you be so kind as to answer my question:
    what does the Bible describe as God’s church?

  • Chari McCauley

    Does not both Abraham and also King David and also did not The lord tell us He has a Father in Heaven?

    Why would you believe there are no female elements, and if not why are we a necessity, here?

    Are you saying women are, indeed, just another form of livestock?

    What do I personally think of the church as? A wicked stepmother, who hs a little jealous god in charge of each one. That is the disease of hubris infecting Father’s kids. All the way from Lucifer to us. The goal is life. Disease stagnates growth and expansion.

  • Armed Citizen

    you stated that the Infinite Creator has a ‘mother’ – i only asked you to prove this with Scripture.
    and upon this lie is built the catholic counterfeit.

  • Chari McCauley

    Pretty good! “Hello, my Name is Earl”; and, I’m just trying to be a better person.

    We ALL go through growing pains, even The Lord; it’s how we handle it that matters.
    The Lord volunteered to be in our skin so, He could understand us better. Empathy is one thing stressed throughout talk about judgement, and mercy is a big suggestion…it could be YOU being judged “unfairly”??

    The Lord can and does watch over the most tramatized (He KNOWS the difference), it’s those of us who still have enough sense left to know….something is off…that need to look into the mirror. It is why I believe I spent time learning military strategy. Shrewd as snakes, gentle as lambs….

    Father NEVER asks His children to be stupid. They just think, like most young, that they know IT ALL.