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An Interview with an Actual Heretic: Matthew Disefano EPISODE 8

Matthew Distefano is the Author of Heretic Too, a book that explores the nature of sin, hell, capital punishment, the connection between Christianity and other religions, and many, many more taboo topics. This interview explores the many heretical paths that Matthew charts in his newest book.

CLEAN
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A Podcast for People Who Don't Church: Introducind UnBelief
Episode 0
A Podcast for People Who Don't Church: Introducind UnBelief
In this introductory episode, Jeremy shares his personal journey of questioning and skepticism, and why he's creating a space for others who are also searching for spiritual beliefs that work for them. We're going to explore sacred texts, have candid conversations with individuals unraveling their beliefs, and have interesting discussions with scholars and authors. Whether you're deconstructing your faith, seeking a purpose greater than yourself, or just curious about what it means to be a skeptic pastor, this episode sets the stage for the conversations to come. Welcome to a journey of honest questioning, thoughtful exploration, and building a spirituality that truly resonates with you.
Genesis 1 is not About Science
Episode 1
Genesis 1 is not About Science
In this first book club episode of The Unbelief Podcast, we dive deep into the opening chapter of Genesis, exploring its rich layers of meaning and cultural context. Genesis 1 is not a scientific account but a profound philosophical poem that offers insight into ancient views on existence, order, and humanity's role in the world. This episode breaks down the structure of the creation narrative, revealing the symbolic parallels and patterns present throughout the text. It challenges modern interpretations that attempt to extract scientific truths from the chapter, encouraging listeners to appreciate the deeper theological themes, including the intrinsic goodness of creation and the idea of humans as bearers of God's image.
Navigating Cancer Anti-Vaxers and More: Drinks and Deconstruction with Michele
Episode 2
Navigating Cancer Anti-Vaxers and More: Drinks and Deconstruction with Michele
Michelle Legro shares her journey of deconstruction from Evangelical Christianity from family with health issues and antivax friends. She talks about finding solace in nature and centering activities like kayaking and tending to her chickens.
Genesis 2 Layers of Meaning from Why Bad Things Happen, to the Beginning of Science
Episode 3
Genesis 2 Layers of Meaning from Why Bad Things Happen, to the Beginning of Science
Dive deep into the many layers of meaning in the second story of creation. It's obviously not about science or evolution, but it guides us into considering much deeper questions about our daily lives. Why do bad things happen? How do we deal with consequences, and could this be the beginning of science? All that and a healthy dose of a similar story called the Epic of Gilgamesh!
Why do Preachers Suck with Dr. Sam Parkes
Episode 4
Why do Preachers Suck with Dr. Sam Parkes
So many preachers do such a bad job at communicating. Not only that, many end up using that moment to inflict real harm. Dr. Sam Parkes has a Doctoral degree in preaching. He helps us process the question: why do preachers suck?
Noah's Ark Isn't Real: Another Book Club in Genesis
Episode 5
Noah's Ark Isn't Real: Another Book Club in Genesis
The story of Noah's Ark is not some sort of Indiana Jones Treasure map that needs to be decoded by some guy in a helicopter. There wasn't a guy named Noah who had to find enough large trees in the desert to build a boat big enough to hold all the animals needed to repopulate the earth. But just because it didn't literally happen doesn't mean it's not important. This story dives deep into some of the most important human experiences there are and has the power to help you weather hard times and come out on the other side in one piece.
A Catholic Lets go and Comes Back: Drinks and Deconstruction with Juliette
Episode 6
A Catholic Lets go and Comes Back: Drinks and Deconstruction with Juliette
Juliette grew up in the catholic church and is in the middle of keeping the institution at arm's length while she figures out who she is and what she believes. Her story of Deconstruction is one that millions of Catholics share.
Tower of Babel is about the iPhone
Episode 7
Tower of Babel is about the iPhone
Yes, there was likely an actual tower of Babel (we'll explain that in the show), but the story is not really about the tower. It's about something much bigger. It's about, ultimately, the iPhone.
The Secret of Finding Purpose is Ancient Genealogy
Episode 9
The Secret of Finding Purpose is Ancient Genealogy
The shocking start to Abraham's story is full of insights into our everyday lives, but we start with something surprising. An ancient genealogy often overlooked by readers unlocks some of the most profound insights into how we find purpose and create fulfilling lives for ourselves.
A mental health diagnosis led to doubting and freedom from evangelicalism: Anna Gazmarian
Episode 10
A mental health diagnosis led to doubting and freedom from evangelicalism: Anna Gazmarian
Join Author Anna Gazmarian, author of Devout: A Memoir of Doubt, as we talk about her journey from evangelicalism to freedom through an unlikely beginning. Her diagnosis with Bipolar type 2 was the catalyst for a huge life change and a new experience of freedom.
An acient bloody ritual that helps loneliness
Episode 11
An acient bloody ritual that helps loneliness
Abram is a doubter and keeps wondering why God isn't keeping God's promises to Abram. Then an ancient ritual, a smoking firepot, and a torch change everything.
Circumcision, Anxiety, and the Origins of Islam
Episode 12
Circumcision, Anxiety, and the Origins of Islam
Sometimes we act out of our anxiety and make rash decisions. That's part of the insight we get in these two chapters of Genesis. Also, the story of Ishmael, who is the beginning of the Isalm traditions, and of course, there's the part about... circumcision?
Drinks and Deconstruction: Rocking the Boat with Doubts and Justice - a Conversation With Craig Mendoza
Episode 13
Drinks and Deconstruction: Rocking the Boat with Doubts and Justice - a Conversation With Craig Mendoza
You can find our wonderful "Not Church" community of people trying to find beliefs that work for them by subscribing for $3 to out Patreon. patreon.com/skepticpastor
Biblical Sitcom and Why Sodom and Gommorah is not about Homosexuality
Episode 14
Biblical Sitcom and Why Sodom and Gommorah is not about Homosexuality
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Drinks and Deconstruction: A Japanese Deomon, Tarot Cards, and the Celtic Fire Festiva l.
Episode 15
Drinks and Deconstruction: A Japanese Deomon, Tarot Cards, and the Celtic Fire Festiva l.
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The Pagan Origins of Christianity and Exactly How Many Year's It's Been Since the First Christmas
Episode 16
The Pagan Origins of Christianity and Exactly How Many Year's It's Been Since the First Christmas
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Drinks and Deconstruction: Kali and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
Episode 17
Drinks and Deconstruction: Kali and Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom
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When Santa Claus Slapped a Guy in a Church Meeting
Episode 18
When Santa Claus Slapped a Guy in a Church Meeting
Join the Not Church community: patreon.com/skepticpastor Get some great merch: noomacommunity.com/merch
The Christmas Story through a Queer Lens and The History of the LGBTQ Relationship with the Church
Episode 19
The Christmas Story through a Queer Lens and The History of the LGBTQ Relationship with the Church
Join the Not Church discord: patreon.com/skepticpastor Get fun merch: noomacommunity.com/store
A Feminist Geneology? In a Patriarchal Culture?
Episode 20
A Feminist Geneology? In a Patriarchal Culture?
Murder, prostitution, and even a verse that has been used to tell people masturbation is a sin are all wrapped up in the Geneology of Jesus that is full of something unexpected: women.
An Ancient Ritual to Make 2025 Better then 2024
Episode 21
An Ancient Ritual to Make 2025 Better then 2024
Don't make resolutions. They suck and don't work. You need to set intentions, that's where the power is. This episode uses a ritual that is over 500 years old to help make that happen.
Attempted Genocide Thwarted by Two Unlikely Women
Episode 22
Attempted Genocide Thwarted by Two Unlikely Women
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A Mars Scientist Becomes a Medium
Episode 23
A Mars Scientist Becomes a Medium
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Moses the Murderer and the Basket Baby
Episode 24
Moses the Murderer and the Basket Baby
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Life After Doom and Should You Stay Christian with Brian McLaren
Episode 25
Life After Doom and Should You Stay Christian with Brian McLaren
If you've ever wondered how to deal with the immense number of things in the world that are on fire or are in the moment when you are trying to answer the question of whether you should stay Christian, author and public theologian Brian Mclaren is here for you. ? patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
An Introvert Saves the World
Episode 26
An Introvert Saves the World
One of the most famous stories in the book of Exodus reveals something profound bout one of Moses' secret powers, and it pushes back hard against one of the most deeply held values in the Western world. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
The Faith of a Nerd, Geek and Gamer
Episode 27
The Faith of a Nerd, Geek and Gamer
Become part of the "Not Church" community: patreon.com/skepticpastor Hilarious, irreverent merch: noomacommunity.com/store Nathan Webb is leveling up community for nerds, geeks, and gamers everywhere. From Dungeons & Dragons?campaigns to epic anime arcs, we explore how these fandoms bring people together?and maybe even closer to something bigger than ourselves. Roll initiative, and join the adventure!?
Speech Impediments Freee Slaves
Episode 28
Speech Impediments Freee Slaves
Moses wasn?t exactly Pharaoh?s first pick for a TED Talk, but that didn?t stop him from becoming one of history?s most legendary leaders. This week, we talk about overcoming insecurities, finding your voice, and rebuilding community after losing the one you thought was home. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
And then I had an Out of Body Experience
Episode 29
And then I had an Out of Body Experience
Rob?s faith journey had everything: church corruption, Christian heavy metal, deep philosophy, and an existential crisis. Oh, and an out-of-body experience. Join us as we unpack his wild deconstruction story and how he finally found spirituality in a place he never expected. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
Moses, Murder, and a Mystery Foreskin
Episode 30
Moses, Murder, and a Mystery Foreskin
Nothing says ?divine calling? like running from murder charges, getting ambushed by God, and being saved by your wife wielding a freshly cut foreskin. Exodus 4 gets WEIRD, and we?re here to make sense of (or at least laugh at) it. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
Time is a Lie, the Universe is a Mess and Religion is a Paradox
Episode 31
Time is a Lie, the Universe is a Mess and Religion is a Paradox
Time is fake, particles don?t know what they are, and reality is a mess?but don?t worry, your GPS still works. In this episode, astrophysicist Brian Jones joins us to explain why everything we think we know about time, space, and even spirituality might be wrong. Get ready for a wild ride through relativity, quantum weirdness, and why the universe refuses to make sense. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
How to Make an Authoritarian Really Mad
Episode 32
How to Make an Authoritarian Really Mad
Lesson of the day: If you want to make an authoritarian really mad, tell them they?re not actually in charge. Moses demands freedom, Pharaoh retaliates, and things get significantly worse before they get better. We talk about the politics of power, why reading the room matters, and why sometimes, yelling at God is theologically sound. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
How to not Suck as a Christian
Episode 33
How to not Suck as a Christian
Evangelicals love a good debate, but maybe we should just stop arguing and start being decent humans instead. In this episode, we dive into my book How to Not Suck as a Christian ?and talk about why apologetics is a waste of time, how to avoid churches that only pretend ?to be affirming, and how to rebuild a spiritual life after religious trauma without all the baggage. How to Not Suck Book patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/store
The Bible: Now with 100% More Dysfunctional Families and Insecure Leaders
Episode 34
The Bible: Now with 100% More Dysfunctional Families and Insecure Leaders
God reminds Moses of His promises, but Moses is still struggling?this time, with his old insecurities and a speech impediment that won?t stop haunting him. In this episode, we unpack how faith doesn?t erase your wounds, why biblical families were an absolute trainwreck, and how evangelicals? obsession with the ?perfect family? completely misses the point. patreon.com/skepticpastor ??
A Reformed Southern Baptist Comes Out - Yeah, You Read that Right
Episode 35
A Reformed Southern Baptist Comes Out - Yeah, You Read that Right
You know what?s fun? Realizing your theology says you?re predestined for hell and still showing up for staff meetings. Austin tells us about growing up as a reformed Southern Baptist, discovering he was gay, and trying to survive church life while slowly coming out. It?s deconstruction with a side of existential dread?and the fallout?s just getting started. Howtonotsuckbook.com
Snakes, Plagues, and Denial?The Real Exodus Story
Episode 36
Snakes, Plagues, and Denial?The Real Exodus Story
It starts with a giant snake, gets messy with blood and frogs, and finishes off with gnats and flies?classic Exodus chaos. But what if these plagues aren?t just about punishing Egypt? We explore how God partners with humanity to tackle big issues and why embracing your weak spots might be your own personal plague-buster. patreon.com/skepticpastor
Southern Baptist Illuminati outs a Gay Deacon and Ruins His Life
Episode 37
Southern Baptist Illuminati outs a Gay Deacon and Ruins His Life
Austin was just living his life?deconstructing, working as a deacon, and making spicy tweets?when the Southern Baptist Illuminati? (okay, not their real name, but might as well be) outed him to his church who fired him and kept ruining his life. But plot twist: when evangelicals cast him out, the LGBTQ community did something wild?they actually acted like Jesus. This is the second part of his story, and it is tragic and hopeful. patreon.com/skepticpastor
No, the Bible Doesn?t Say Being Queer Is a Sin?Let?s Prove It (also it's Pro-Trans)
Episode 38
No, the Bible Doesn?t Say Being Queer Is a Sin?Let?s Prove It (also it's Pro-Trans)
Step one: debunk every anti-LGBTQ verse with actual biblical scholarship. Step two: show how the Bible is pro-trans. Step three: remind ourselves that forcing ancient cultural norms onto modern society is a terrible idea. This week, we?re breaking down why the Bible?s big-picture message is radical inclusivity?no matter how hard fundamentalists try to make it about exclusion. patreon.com/skepticpastor
From Church Pews to the Solstice - a Theatre Kid Rediscovers God
Episode 39
From Church Pews to the Solstice - a Theatre Kid Rediscovers God
She loved church. The rituals, the architecture, the sacred feeling of it all. But then came seminary?a place where evangelical theology goes to die. We talk about how actual?biblical study led her to deconstruction, how Celtic spirituality filled the void, and why she now finds God in nature, ritual, and yes?even the theatre. patreon.com/skepticpastor
Why Purity Culture Messes Up Kids?And Why Atheists Might Be Onto Something
Episode 40
Why Purity Culture Messes Up Kids?And Why Atheists Might Be Onto Something
Purity pledges? Bad idea. Arguing with atheists? Also bad idea. This episode features two chapters from How to Not Suck as a Christian, covering why purity culture does more harm than good and why debating atheists is a waste of time. Instead of fear-mongering about sex and ?winning souls? through arguments, maybe it?s time to try something revolutionary?being a decent human. patreon.com/skepticpastor noomacommunity.com/merch
This Story Is Not a Children?s Lesson?Boils, Hail, and the Final Plague
Episode 41
This Story Is Not a Children?s Lesson?Boils, Hail, and the Final Plague
Locusts, darkness, and a final plague so brutal it makes everyone ?uncomfortable?yep, we?re in the deep end of Exodus now. In this episode, we wrestle with plagues 6-10, Pharaoh?s terrible ?decision-making, and why we love making desperate promises to God they never keep. Plus, a reminder that even in the worst moments, good things can happen?and rejecting them doesn?t make you noble, it just makes you miserable. patreon.com/skepticpastor
Leaving Mormonism, Preaching Atheism, and Finding a More Chill Path
Episode 42
Leaving Mormonism, Preaching Atheism, and Finding a More Chill Path
Dan Beecher was?this close?to spending two years knocking on doors for Mormonism?then he decided he didn?t believe any of it. In this episode, we talk about his journey from devoted Mormon to full-blown atheist, how he?became an evangelist for atheism, and why he now chooses to partner with some religious people instead of trying to convince them they're wrong. Plus, he drops some? solid ?advice for anyone going through deconstruction. patreon.com/skepticpastor
God is not a Magical Genie
Episode 43
God is not a Magical Genie
It?s the part of the Exodus story everyone remembers?God parts the sea, the people escape, Pharaoh gets wrecked. But this week, we dig deeper into? how ?that miracle actually happened (spoiler:?strong wind all night), why magical thinking screws up our theology, and how to make rituals that help us actually remember the things we learn instead of just waiting for another dramatic rescue. patreon.com/skepticpastor
The Bible: What It Is, What It Isn?t, and Why Constantine Didn?t Make It
Episode 44
The Bible: What It Is, What It Isn?t, and Why Constantine Didn?t Make It
No, Constantine didn?t choose the books of the Bible. No, the Bible isn?t a culture manual for modern life. And no, you?re not supposed to just read it?you?re supposed to let it? read you. In this episode, we get into what the Bible actually is, how it came to be, and how to study it without turning into a fundamentalist meme. patreon.com/skepticpastor
The Wilderness Sucks - Even Moses Needed a Dance Break
Episode 45
The Wilderness Sucks - Even Moses Needed a Dance Break
The Israelites just escaped Egypt, and what do they do first? Throw a party. In this episode, we dive into the songs of Moses and Miriam, explore how feasting and celebration are just as spiritual as prayer and fasting, and talk about why you shouldn?t try to do faith alone?especially when the wilderness hits. Oh, and that manna? Might?ve been natural. Still holy. patreon.com/skepticpastor
Deconstruction, Patriarchy, and the Atheist Boyfriend Who Got It
Episode 46
Deconstruction, Patriarchy, and the Atheist Boyfriend Who Got It
It started with one book. One idea: maybe the Bible wasn?t written outside of ? ?patriarchy. That thread pulled Gabie?s faith wide open. In this episode, she shares her journey through doubt, the atheist boyfriend who got it more than her evangelical friends, and how she found a new spiritual home in Not Church. If you?re deconstructing, she?s got one thing to say?It's going to be OK patreon.com/skepticpastor
Why You Keep Making the Same Mistakes?And Why You Can?t Fix Them Alone
Episode 47
Why You Keep Making the Same Mistakes?And Why You Can?t Fix Them Alone
This episode has it all: people whining in circles, Moses burning out, and a surprise intervention from his father-in-law. We talk about how to spot the toxic patterns in your own life, how community can carry you when you can?t do it alone, and why having someone speak the hard truth isn?t mean?it?s holy. patreon.com/skepticpastor
Romans: The Book That?s Been Misused for Centuries
Episode 48
Romans: The Book That?s Been Misused for Centuries
Ever felt like Romans was used against you? You're not alone. This episode dives into a conversation with Keith Giles and Matthew DiStefano the authors of? Reading Romans Right , revealing how a fresh perspective can transform this misunderstood text into a message of hope and inclusion. Reading Romans Right: https://amzn.to/4j6kNOP patreon.com/skepticpastor
Easter?s Pagan (kind of), Words Change, and the KJV Is Horrible
Episode 49
Easter?s Pagan (kind of), Words Change, and the KJV Is Horrible
We?re talking pagan goddesses, changing language, and why the King James Version is? definitely ?not the most accurate Bible translation. Gabie (our favorite linguist) joins to unpack the pagan origins of the word ?Easter,? how meanings shift over time, and why ?thou shalt not? doesn?t mean what you think it means anymore. Spoiler: English has evolved?and so should your theology. patreon.com/skepticpastor
What the Hell Is Hell, Anyway?
Episode 50
What the Hell Is Hell, Anyway?
If you died tonight, do you know where you?d spend eternity? We open with that classic evangelical guilt-trip and immediately start breaking it down. Gabie and Jeremy deep dive into the biblical? non -basis for modern hell, expose how mistranslations (and Dante) created most of what we picture today, and explore how ancient views on punishment were? way ?more complex than fire and brimstone. patreon.com/skepticpastor
The Ten Commandments?You?ve Been Reading Them Wrong
Episode 51
The Ten Commandments?You?ve Been Reading Them Wrong
You think the Ten Commandments are about judging everyone else? Wrong. They?re written to you. In this episode, we break down how the commandments are personal, why ?taking the Lord?s name in vain? has nothing to do with cussing, and why Sabbath isn?t just ?a nice idea??it?s a full-on rebellion against hustle culture. Oh, and yes, it?s ?don?t murder,? not ?don?t kill.? Get it right. patreon.com/skepticpastor
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