Speaking Christian: An Interview with Marcus Borg

And that leads us right into Speaking Christian, your new guidebook to dozens of words and phrases that are so frequently misunderstood that you argue Christianity is becoming a faith divided by a common language—with a salute to George Bernard Shaw for adapting his original line on the British and Americans as two people divided by a common language.
Let me echo the words of Paul, who says we have this treasure in earthen vessels. I think the NRSV translates it as we have this treasure in clay pots. I see the words of the Bible as the earthen vessel. The words are a human product, made of the earth, and yet within this earthen vessel we have this treasure of divine wisdom, this treasure of our spiritual ancestors, the stories and experiences and insights that mattered to them—as well as the limited understanding and sometimes even blindness of our spiritual ancestors.

We just published an interview with Richard Rohr, who talks about how he started life almost as a fundamentalist, then he went through all the complex intellectual responses to scripture that come with a seminary education and he became something of a skeptic. But now he likes to talk about how he finds a story like the Genesis creation story profoundly true, but on "about 10 different levels" that he wouldn't have understood as a youth.
I am very happy to say it this way: The Genesis stories of creation are profoundly true, but they didn't happen the way they are described in Genesis. I think that's what Richard Rohr is saying, too. These stories are true on levels other than literal readings. That's one thing.

But there's another thing I'm talking about: There also are some passages in the Bible that, even when we understand them perfectly—they are wrong. Just to pull out one example: In 1 Samuel 14, God commands Saul to kill all the men, women and children of the Amalekites, a neighboring people with whom they are at war. Now, I can't believe that God ever commanded anyone to go do that. Kill all the babies? I don't think there's any point in trying to explain away that passage and say that somehow God isn't commanding actual death. No, the verse is perfectly clear. It says God commanded Saul to go kill all the people, including the babies. And I think we must say: That's plain wrong. God never commanded Saul to go kill infants.

What I find fascinating about your new book—and I think will spark a lot of discussion in Bible-study classes—is that in many cases you're arguing against beliefs that sprang up long after the Bible. As you're trying to reclaim the spiritual power of this sacred language, you're saying that a lot of the distortions came much later. And one of those big distortions you write about is the "heaven and hell framework."
Yes, I'm convinced that the primary culprit distorting Christian language in our culture is this heaven and hell framework—even more so than the problem of literalizing scripture. Heaven and hell Christianity has an even greater distorting effect.

In reading about the controversy over Rob Bell's book, Love Wins, we are seeing that his critics really understand the word "salvation" to mean one thing: getting to heaven. Thus, the whole charge that arises against him from these critics is that he believes in universal salvation. These critics are accusing Rob Bell of saying that everybody gets to go to heaven—regardless.

What I'm really struck by in all of this controversy is the identification of the word "salvation" as referring to something that happens after death. That's one of the central themes I write about in my book. An emphasis on the afterlife has been a part of popular Christianity in this country for centuries. That strong emphasis has distorted the original meaning of salvation. Now, the word means just going to heaven. In the Bible, the word salvation hardly ever means that. The controversy over Rob Bell's book is an emphatic underlining of this distortion that has taken place in Christianity.

If you look at what critics are saying about Rob Bell, you'll find that one of the common complaints is: Unless there is a hell, then there's no reason to be a Christian. The whole point of Christianity, these critics say, is determining where we'll go to spend eternity. When I read that, I think: Oh, my God! Think how deeply engrained this distortion is in so many people's minds. These days, Christianity is regularly described as a religion of the afterlife.

Now, I'm not denying the afterlife. I say that clearly in my book. But I am saying that this overemphasis on the afterlife as the sole purpose of Christianity is a distortion.

Readers will need to get your book to read your whole analysis about how this problem distorts our richest spiritual language. But give them just a little sense of what salvation really means in the Bible—and in Jesus' teaching as well.