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End of the World (Again)

Many years marked on a parchment, and then crossed offHey gang!  This has been great fun, but today is the last day for this blog.  Of course, that’s because this is the last day for everything.  God ends the world today.

I hope you took advantage of my “Only 21 More Shopping Days Till the End of the World” post and got those nagging last-minute items off your to-do list.  (If you need background on why today is the grand finale, check out that post.)

The parchment above is a relic showing some of many, many failed attempts at predicting the end of the world, going all the way back to the gospel story itself, in which Jesus says,

Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.

It’s been close to 2000 years since those “standing here” reportedly heard those words.  Oops!

So, there won’t be a tomorrow tomorrow … unless, of course, this is just the latest in a long list of pathetic, groundless predictions for the end of the world.

In which case, c’mon back for more polite but pointed critiques of Christianity!

Artwork credit: Kyle Hepworth

Related posts and links:

  • The Skeptics Annotated Bible has long list of gospel predictions of the imminent end.
  • Lest we forget” is a video with clips of Camping’s claims.
  • Jessica Fostvedt, “Doomsday, Apocalypse, and Rapture, Oh my!” Scientific American, 10/7/11.
  • Stephanie Pappas, “Preacher still says Oct. 21 for end of world,” MSNBC, 10/14/11.
  • Benjamin Radford, “10 Failed Doomsday Predictions,” LiveScience, 11/04/09.

About Bob Seidensticker
  • Bob Calvan

    Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.

    It’s been close to 2000 years since those “standing here” reportedly heard those words. Oops!

    Another false claim the Atheist use to try to prove Jesus was a false Phrophet. And Bob claims to be an educated Atheist..Well Bob as I have told you many times, you are going to represent Christianity be truthfull.

    When Jesus said ..some of you who are standing here will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God… Jesus was speaking of the destruction of Jeruselum..And Jesus phrophesy was fullfilled exactly as He said.. You can even read of it in Josephus accounts. Word for word all these thing happened to that generation Jesus was speaking to.

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      Is that what “see the kingdom of God” consistently means in the Bible? It means “witness the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem”?

      When Jesus said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God,” he was referring somehow to the destruction of the temple? Same for “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you”?

      I think many Christians would find that surprising.

  • Bob Calvan

    Contex, contex, contex… You argument is absurd..And by the way the unbeliever does not have the ability to understand the scriptures..
    1Cr 2:14 But ]a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually ]appraised.

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      Is it absurd? Don’t simply make the assertion; show me.

      Should we play dueling Bible quotes? “When Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” (Rom 2:14-15). I’m sure that puts your mind at rest.

      How can anyone become a Christian if he can’t make heads or tails of the Bible?

  • Bob Calvan

    What are you saying Rom 2:14 means? Is this some kind of refutation?

    You asked:
    How can anyone become a Christian if he can’t make heads or tails of the Bible?

    I have told you over and over, the only way one can become a Christian is a supernatural event. God must regenerate that person. John 6:44.
    It is not in mans power to save himself..In fact no one seeks God. People seek god’s, but no one seeks the true Triune God of the OT and the NT

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      What are you saying Rom 2:14 means? Is this some kind of refutation?

      Yep.

      I have told you over and over, the only way one can become a Christian is a supernatural event.

      So much for the Great Commission™, eh?

  • RandomFunction2

    To all,

    I don’t think the coming of the Kingdom of God has anything to do with the destruction of Jerusalem. The Kingdom of God is a phrase that means that God will enter history in glory and turn the world into heaven for the righteous and hell for the sinners. Obviously, nothing of the sort happened in A.D. 70.

    I’m also unconvinced by the claim that only believers can understand the Bible. An atheist who is a scholar has obviously a better grasp on the Bible than an ordinary believer. Or it’s like saying that only muslims can understand the Koran, or only Marxists understand Marx’ works.

  • Bob Calvan

    Random, Random , Random

    Wrong as usuall when it come to Theology..
    Atheist Bob was using the old false argument that ignorant Athesist use..Regarding the Olivet discourse..In Matt 24, and the Parallel gospels. When some of the Apostles asked Jesus about the Temple. Jesus gave the signs that the Apostles and that generation would see..Jesus was prophesing about the destruction of the Templ and Jerusalem.
    Evwerything Jesus said happen by 70 A.D.. And if you knew your OT as Jesus and the

    apostles did, all those signs have meanings. And all were fullfilled. Word for Word..As
    Jesus is a true prophet.

    And even Bob admitted How can anyone be a Christian if

    As far as understanding the Bible.. You do not understand what I am saying..Yes, most people can read the bible and get meaning out of it, as anyone can do for any book. But only true believers can understand the Spiritual meaning and what it really means when Jesus says: “..Unless you believe that I AM ( He) you will die in youe sins”….

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      But only true believers can understand the Spiritual meaning and what it really means when Jesus says: “..Unless you believe that I AM ( He) you will die in youe sins”….

      Christianity as a mystery religion, eh? Hey–why should the Gnostics have all the fun!

    • RandomFunction2

      To BobC,

      Still, the idea of the Kingdom of God has nothing to do with the destruction of the Temple. I don’t quite understand how you can confuse the two (unless you want to defend biblical inerrancy as regards Jesus’ prophecies, but it’s a desperate move).

  • Bob Calvan

    Bob Calvan on October 21, 2011 at 6:01 pm said:
    My biblical hermenutics and exegesis of the Bible are correct. We look at the original language, who it is written to, the contex, and the Holy Spirit as our source of interpretation of scripture, which is only for Jesus sheep.
    1Cr 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
    As you can see the noetic effect of sin does not let the unbeliever understand the spirituall things of the Bible.

  • Bob Calvan

    Christianity as a mystery religion, eh? Hey–why should the Gnostics have all the fun!

    When I spreak of Spiritual I am speaking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to those the Father and Son give to the elect. Not some hocus pocus Gnostic superstitions.

    We see the perfect plan of the Triune God in salvation of His elect. The Father chooses, the Son redeems those the Father gives Him, and the Holy Spirit gives them Spiritual life, and indwells them and conforms them to Jesus Christ. That is why only the Believer can understand the true meaning of Scripture..
    The Natural man ( unregenerate) is Born once and Dies twice.
    The Believer ( regenerate) is Born twice and Dies Once.

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      When I spreak of Spiritual I am speaking the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to those the Father and Son give to the elect. Not some hocus pocus Gnostic superstitions.

      Ah–that makes it a little clearer. It’s the “indwelling of the Holy Spirit” for your religion but “hocus pocus” for the other guy’s.

  • Bob Calvan

    Still, the idea of the Kingdom of God has nothing to do with the destruction of the Temple. I don’t quite understand how you can confuse the two.

    Please defend your position with the Sripture that you are refering to.. And exegete those verses.
    Your statement i pasted above is meaningless? Unless you explain the verse you are refering to?

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      I’ll jump into this conversation with a quick observation.

      My interpretation of your move here (and I think this is what RF2 is saying) is that you have a presupposition that your religion is correct. But then you’re presented with a statement (repeated many times in the gospels) that appears to undermine the entire project–a statement proving that Jesus falsely predicted his own return. You hammer together a flimsy defense to rationalize that statement.

      Your focus is on providing some sort of semi-plausible response to the problem to shore up your belief, but you’ve done nothing (except bluster!) to show that this is the best explanation for the facts.

      Yeah, Jesus could’ve meant that the temple would soon be destroyed, but that’s hardly what the text says at face value. Only in support of a preconception would you make such an argument.

  • Bob Calvan

    My point is everything Jesus prohesized in the Olivet discourse happened> When Jsus said this generation will see all these things . They did see all those things. Even the historians included and confirmed what Jesus said.

    Jesus said no stone will be left upon another.. And that is exactlly what happened in 70 A.D. Jesus olivet discourse was a future prophesy of what would happen in about 35 to 40 years in the future..And that generation saw all these things..
    It is your ignorance of the scriptures that is the problem.. I can explain ever sign that Jesus predicted and all of them that generation saw.. From Jesus return ( what that means) and the Kingdom of God ( what that means) and the signs in the heavens ( what that means) . All this was fulfilled and happened perfectly as Jesus said it would.
    You are invited to attend a bible study at my house and bring Random Function with you.

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      My point is everything Jesus prohesized in the Olivet discourse happened>

      In your mind, but not in any objective critique of the claims.

      When Jsus said this generation will see all these things . They did see all those things.

      What things did Jesus say they’d see?

      Even the historians included and confirmed what Jesus said.

      Explain. What historians confirm what Jesus claims?

      It is your ignorance of the scriptures that is the problem.

      You can’t understand the scripture unless you believe, but I can’t believe without some good reason (like one coming from scripture).

      And we’re back to where I started—as an atheist. Surely you can’t be surprised that your argument is not convincing.

  • Bob Calvan

    Random,
    You said: “the kingdom of God has nothing to do with the destruction of the temple, and you do not understand how I can confuse the two”
    All I am saying was in response to Bob the Atheist comment..In the Olivet dicourse Matt 24, and its parallel passages in Luke and Mark. Which is about the destruction of the temple in 70 A.D. The kingdom of God is mentioned..Bob the Atheist thinks makes Jesus prophesey false..Bob does not understand what the kingdom of God is in that contex. That is all I am saying.
    The Kingdom of God is God’s sovereign reign and rule. God’s reign was the major focus of Jesus teaching. ( Matt 6:33, Mark 1:5, Luke 6;20 to list a few) Its fullness is in the future ( Luke 13:29, 22:18) and yet it also has come in Jesus himself ( Luke10:9 , 17:21 to list a few)

  • Bob Calvan

    My point is everything Jesus prohesized in the Olivet discourse happened>

    In your mind, but not in any objective critique of the claims.

    What objective critique of the calims are you talking about?

  • Bob Calvan

    When Jsus said this generation will see all these things . They did see all those things.

    What things did Jesus say they’d see?

    The events in the olivet discourse

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      You’re the Bible scholar–spell it out for me.

  • Bob Calvan

    It is your ignorance of the scriptures that is the problem.

    You can’t understand the scripture unless you believe, but I can’t believe without some good reason (like one coming from scripture).

    You keep qouting scripture (Matt 24)
    to prove Jesus was a false phrophet ( which you failed to do).

    And I say you have no idea what you are talking about and that Jesus has fullfilled all those signs, that He mentioned and that Generation saw all those signs.
    Name me one that Jesus failed on?

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      And I say you have no idea what you are talking about and that Jesus has fullfilled all those signs, that He mentioned and that Generation saw all those signs.
      Name me one that Jesus failed on?

      Jesus said, “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken” (Matt. 24:29).

      Didn’t happen.

      Of course, you can salvage things by saying that this is yet to come. But then we’re back to the original problem: Just 10 verses later, Jesus says, “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.”

      Oops.

  • Bob Calvan

    :Bob Said:

    “”Jesus said, “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken” (Matt. 24:29).

    Didn’t happen.”””

    Yes it did Bob I will explain..I usually do not exegete scripture with unblievers..But just for you I will show you where you are wrong by your presuppositions

    Bob, Prophets made common use of the language about the sun darkening, the moon turning to blood and the falling stars.

    How did the sun, moon and stars
    fall in Bible prophecy?
    God spoke of the destruction of Edom. He referred
    to the luminaries of heaven being dissolved. The
    verses in Isaiah 34:4–5, illustrate the point.

    “All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and
    the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All
    their host shall fall down as the leaf falls from
    the vine, and as fruit falling from a fig tree.”

    God identifies Edom in the next verse:

    For my sword shall be bathed in heaven;
    indeed it shall come down on Edom, and on
    the people of My curse, for judgment… (v. 5–6).

    Earlier, Isaiah wrote of ancient Babylon’s destruction.
    He described the Mede army coming from “the
    end of heaven to destroy the land of Babylon.

    It is called a day of the Lord which was then
    at hand. He then describes it as the fall of the
    sun moon and starts.

    “For the stars of heaven and their constellations
    will not give their light; The sun will be darkened
    in its going forth, and the moon will not cause its
    light to shine,” (Isa. 13:10).

    The prophet goes on to say that God would punish
    the world for their inquity. He describes it as
    shaking the nation and moving the earth out of
    her place.

    Yet the entire prophecy focused on the fall of
    Babylon, by the Medes army. (Isaiah 13:17–19).

    Next, Amos, speaking of Israel whom God would
    destroy and bring into Assyrian captivity (722 BC),
    also uses the sun, moon and stars in an apocalyptic
    vision.

    “And it shall come to pass in that day, says the
    Lord God, that I will make the sun go down at
    noon, and I will darken the earth in broad
    daylight.” (Amos 8:9)

    In other words, the prophets made common use
    of the language about the sun darkening, the
    moon turning to blood and the falling stars.

    Hence, Joel, prophesied of the end time and
    coming of the Holy Spirit. This is the most
    often quoted text in the New Testament
    about the destruction of heaven and earth.

    It is quoted in Matthew 24:29, 2 Peter 3 and
    Revelation 6:10–12. Joel wrote of the end time
    in the New Testament. He was using language
    the same as the other Old Testament prophets.

    “The sun shall be turned into darkeness and the
    moon into blood, before the coming of the great
    and awesome day of the Lord, (Joel 2:31).

    When Jesus quotes Joel, in Matthew 24:29, he
    ensures that the prophecy is understood to
    refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

    He applied it to the events which occurred within
    the lifetime of those who lived in the first
    century, saying that generation would not pass
    till all were fulfilled. (Matthew 24:29–34).

    The figurative use of these luminaries referred
    to the civil powers and rulers of nations. The
    idea is the same concept as that used in
    Joseph’s vision in Genesis.

    .

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      Yes it did Bob I will explain..I usually do not exegete scripture with unblievers..But just for you I will show you where you are wrong by your presuppositions

      So this explanation of the mysteries of the scripture involves going to http://www.allthingsfulfilled.com and pasting in their article about the problem?

      From your source:

      In other words, the prophets made common use of the language about the sun darkening, the moon turning to blood and the falling stars.

      OK, I can see that. Now, back the issue at hand. Jesus says that the stars will fall. And yet they didn’t. Instead, we have the war with the Romans and the temple being destroyed.

      Two different things. Problem.

      When Jesus quotes Joel, in Matthew 24:29, he ensures that the prophecy is understood to refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.

      Only if you’re determined to salvage biblical inerrancy! The Bible most assuredly does not say this.

  • Bob Calvan

    Let’s make this real simple.. When the 4 apostles Jesus was talking heard Jesus use the langauge of :
    The sun shall be turned into darkeness and the
    moon into blood, before the coming of the great
    and awesome day of the Lord, (Joel 2:31).

    They knew Jesus was coming in judgement and the Temple wopuld be destroyed.
    It is just like me saying to you .. Or writing you a letter saying..Wow! Bob we had a huge storm today, the worst I ever saw it was raining cats and dogs…You know exactly what I meant..Then say 2,000 years later some guy finds the letter I wrote you..And reads it and says boy they sure must have had strange weather penomeon in those days? How can it rain cats and dogs? Or they might say well this letter is bogus, or superstitous, or magical, how ignorant were those primitive people 2,000 years ago to think it can rain cats and dogs..We know cats and dogs do not fall from the skys…. See my point?

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      See my point?

      Not really. You’re saying that it was metaphorical. Of course, you’d have to say that if you were trying to salvage biblical inerrancy. But how do we know (except in hindsight!) that this wasn’t a literal prediction?

      And if you’re going to metaphor-ize various things to get you out of a jam, why not do it to “There are those standing here who will not taste death…”? Why couldn’t that be a metaphor or exaggeration?

      You’re picking and choosing how the Bible is interpreted simply to suit your own notions. That is, you are hammering the Bible on the anvil of your faith. But shouldn’t it be the other way around?

      Doesn’t it seem wrong to make the Bible into a sock puppet that says whatever you want it to?

  • Bob Calvan

    Bob said
    “Not really. You’re saying that it was metaphorical. Of course, you’d have to say that if you were trying to salvage biblical inerrancy. But how do we know (except in hindsight!) that this wasn’t a literal prediction? ”

    I am saying When Jesus tells the Jews
    The sun shall be turned into darkness and the
    moon into blood, stars will be falling…Etc. They already know this language as it it used in the Old Testament the only books the apostles had..They know this speaks of Judgment..Even when it says Jesus will come on the clouds..They immediately know this speaks of coming in Judgment..In Isaiah before God destroyed Egypt in Judgment it was said Jehovah will come riding on a cloud..Same language. Do you really think Jehovah will ride a cloud like a horse? Do you really think the earth would not be demolished if even one star hit it? Duh, These terms the apostles know refer to judgment. And the truth of this is the OT..We can see whenever these stellar predictions, or Jesus riding clouds we know it refers to judgment..No big deal? No trying to wiggle our way out of things. That is what Jesus was telling the apostles that judgment against the Jews was coming. And the temple will be destroyed. As it was read the Historians who were not even Christians..Everything Jesus said happened.

    You next said:

    And if you’re going to metaphor-ize various things to get you out of a jam, why not do it to “There are those standing here who will not taste death…”? Why couldn’t that be a metaphor or exaggeration?

    That to happened exactly as Jesus predicted. When Jesus said ” There are those standing here who will not taste death….” That literally happened many in that Generation Jesus was speaking to saw the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. before they died.. Again no big deal?

    So in the future I suggest you do not use the argument that the unlearned Atheist ( This argument is not used by more up to date atheist) use, that Jesus failed in his prophecy in Matt 24..Because He did not.. And I showed you. And I did not have to skirt around any thing.

    You next said:
    You’re picking and choosing how the Bible is interpreted simply to suit your own notions. That is, you are hammering the Bible on the anvil of your faith. But shouldn’t it be the other way around?

    Doesn’t it seem wrong to make the Bible into a sock puppet that says whatever you want it to?

    The bible as you should agree is a book of literature. Some poetic, some metaphors, some literal, some symbolic, some historical, etc..

    So , no I am not picking and choosing to suit my notions..When the Old Testament explains what falling stars mean, what the sun turning dark means, what falling stars mean, what coming on the clouds mean, etc.. The Bible in that case interprets itself…Just takes a little study.. And Jesus used OT language as the apostles knew to describe the destruction of Jerusalem..Even you can understand that..You may not like that but that is irrelevant.

    In fact the book of Revelation is soaked on OT symbolism..If one does not understand the OT one will have a difficult time with Revelation.

    So my friend eliminate that argument against Christianity.. Matt 24 was fulfilled perfectly like Jesus predicted..

    • http://galileounchained.com Bob Seidensticker

      I am saying When Jesus tells the Jews
      The sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, stars will be falling…Etc. … They know this speaks of Judgment.

      Oh, so the terrible things that come with the judgment are all just metaphorical? I’m sure backsliding Christians the world over will rejoice.

      Do you really think Jehovah will ride a cloud like a horse?

      I certainly don’t, but I think that the listeners to that message did.

      Do you really think the earth would not be demolished if even one star hit it?

      Real stars? Of course. The stars in ancient Jewish cosmology? Nope. They’re just little dots of light–any moron can see that.

      No trying to wiggle our way out of things.

      And that’s what troubles me here. You read the Bible in whatever way best supports your presuppositions. You read it literally or figuratively, depending on what suits your purpose.

      Doesn’t that make you feel a little … I don’t know … shameful? Why make the Bible into a sock puppet, assuming you actually respect it? Why not let it speak for itself?

      That literally happened many in that Generation Jesus was speaking to saw the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. before they died.

      Right. What I was saying was that instead of turning “stars will fall to earth” into a metaphor to get you out of the problem that the “prophecy” is meaningless, why not instead turn “there are some standing here who will not taste of death before all these things come to pass” into a metaphor? Your purpose is achieved either way.

      And I showed you. And I did not have to skirt around any thing.

      You’re a funny guy! :-)

      The Bible in that case interprets itself…Just takes a little study.

      “Just takes a little study” = “granting myself permission to decide what’s literal and what’s metaphorical, I can make the Bible say anything!”

      In fact the book of Revelation is soaked on OT symbolism..If one does not understand the OT one will have a difficult time with Revelation.

      Whew! That whole burning in the lake of fire thing had me worried. But I’ll just metaphor-ize the bits that I don’t like to make it sound better.

      Sweet!

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