Terry Gross of NPR did an interview with C. Peter Wagner, the godfather of the New Apostolic Reformation, and it is just chock full of crazy. Serious crazy. Like “everyone but me is possessed by demons” crazy. I have no idea how Gross did this interview without just laughing in his face the entire time. To wit:
On the tsunami and nuclear meltdown in Japan being connected to the emperor of Japan having sex with the sun goddess
“That happened many, many years ago, and that created a spiritual atmosphere over Japan which was an atmosphere ruled by the powers of darkness. The sun goddess is not a very nice lady. The sun goddess is a power of darkness, which is headed up by the kingdom of Satan. And so the sun goddess wants natural disasters to come to Japan. Sometimes the hand of God, which is more powerful, will prevent them. And when he decides to prevent them and when he doesn’t is far beyond anything that we can predict.”
“But in this case, God could have prevented that tsunami and the destruction, but he didn’t. He just took his hand off and allowed these natural forces to work. And one of the background pieces of information is Japan is under control of the sun goddess.”
Yeah, that’s not a batshit crazy delusion — it’s a “background piece of information.”
On Alice Patterson, a leader in the New Apostolic Reformation and one of the leadership team members at Rick Perry’s prayer rally, saying on stage at the rally that the Democratic Party is a demon structure
“I personally would not endorse each one of her statements and especially the statement about the Democratic Party being demonized, any more than the Republican Party is. I mean, I believe there’s a lot of demonic control over Congress in general that needs to be dispersed.”
Well at least he’s bipartisan in his insanity.
“As we talk, in Oklahoma City there is an annual meeting of a professional society called the Apostolic — called the International Society of Deliverance Ministers, which my wife and I founded many years ago. … This is a society of a large number, a couple hundred, of Christian ministers who are in the ministry of deliverance. Their seven-day-a-week occupation is casting demons out of people. And they have professional expertise in this and they happen to meeting — to be meeting right now. My wife is one of them. She’s written a whole book called How to Cast Out Demons. And I don’t do that much. Once in a while when I get in a corner, I might. But that’s — that’s been her ministry. And so I’ve been very, very close to that for years. We’ve been married for 60 years.”
Translation: “I know a bunch of other crazy people who believe this crap. My wife believes this crap. So it’s not crap.” Very compelling.
On demon identification
“Sometimes they know. Sometimes the demon has identified itself to the person. Sometimes you can tell by manifestations of superhuman, unhuman behavior. Sometimes you can tell by skilled deliverance ministers. My wife has a five-page questionnaire that she has people fill out before she ministers to them. So she asks the kind of questions that a medical doctor would ask to find out, to diagnose an illness. So she actually does diagnostic work on people to discover not only if they have demons, but what those demons might be.”
“Hi, I’m Chip, I’ll be your demon today. Can I bring you something to start? Pea soup to vomit up? A bloody crucifix? A set of Michele Bachmann crazy eyes glasses?” Sorry Peter, but asking a demon his name is not a medical diagnosis. It is, on the other hand, a sure sign of crazy.
On what it means to be an apostle
“In terms of the role of the apostle, one of the biggest changes from traditional churches to the New Apostolic Reformation is the amount of spiritual authority delegated by the Holy Spirit to individuals. And the two key words are authority and individuals — and individuals as contrasted to groups. So now, apostles have been raised up by God who have a tremendous authority in the churches of the New Apostolic Reformation.”
Color me skeptical, but I’d like to see a letter of assignment from God on this one. The only authority these people have is granted to them by the credulous followers.