Limbaugh Almost Has a Point

Rush Limbaugh almost kinda sorta has a point, muddled as it is, in his claim that white people should not feel guilty for slavery. But like most wingnuts, he thinks that working to end racism has something to do with “white guilt” rather than a concern for justice and fairness.

If any race of people should not have guilt about slavery it’s Caucasians. The White race has probably had fewer slaves and for a briefer period of time than any other in the history of the world. […]

Despite all that, no other race has ever fought a war for the purpose of ending slavery, which we did. Nearly 600,000 people killed in the Civil War. It’s preposterous that Caucasians are blamed for slavery when they have done more to end it than any other race and within the bounds of the Constitution to boot. Yet white guilt about slavery is still one of the dominating factors in American politics.

There’s a kernel of legitimacy inside that otherwise inane screed. I don’t feel any guilt whatsoever for slavery. Why? Because I had nothing to do with it. And I don’t believe in collective racial guilt of any kind at all. I don’t think white people should feel guilty for slavery any more than I believe an individual should feel guilty if the found out they had an ancestor who was a serial killer. Each person bears responsibility only for their own actions, not for the actions of people, even direct ancestors, long dead.

But this notion of white guilt is totally irrelevant to any related policy disputes. We should work to end racism not because of some vague notion of “white guilt” but because it’s the right thing to do. And we should not fan the flames of bigotry the way Limbaugh routinely does because it is the wrong thing to do.

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  • John Pieret

    I would only say that, if my ancestors contributed to a present day injustice, I should have a heightened duty to to correct the injustice now, particularly if one of the effects of that injustice is that I and those in my group have more social power than I should otherwise have. It’s not “white guilt” but “white responsibity.”

  • iplon

    Of course a big issue with his claim is that he says the white race has done more than any other to end Slavery because they fought a war to abolish it. This is patently false with any understanding of history. Even if his claim were true there would be a clear corollary: the white race is also the only race that fought a war to preserve slavery. While this claim is clearly more historically supported than his, it’s also off by a bit.

    The South began the secession movement primarily over the issue of slavery. They were afraid the North was going to eventually outlaw slavery, and they separated to preserve it. A war would have probably happened if they had seceded for any other reason, but the clear cause of the secession was slavery and the clear cause of the war was secession.

    But again, regardless of motivation: whites only needed to do more to end slavery only because whites had done more to preserve it.

  • Alverant

    The problem is that I think we still benefit from slavery even though it’s been illegal for over a century. We still see slavery today even in the USA. We don’t condone it but we still benefit from it with cheaper goods like the electronics made by Foxcomm. The case can be made that slavery in the south is a big reason for the continued discrimination against African Americans today. What happens with institutions built on slavery? How much responsibility do they have? If someone 200 years ago made his fortune in the slave trade and that money became the basis for the family fortune, is it still blood money? If not, when did the taint of slavery end?

  • slc1

    Re Iplon @ #2

    Civil War fought mostly because of slavery? Not a bit of it. The Civil War was fought over coal mines in West Virginia. See blog troll Don Williams.

  • grim

    I disagree. White folks like us ought to feels some guilt about slavery insofar as we benefited from slavery. The reason I’ve been somewhat successful in my life is due in large part to the opportunities I’ve been afforded by my ancestors, who benefited tremendously from slavery. Having access to cheap cotton was integral to the success of this nation, and therefore to all of us who have been its successful citizens.

    Perhaps I wouldn’t feel guilty if I had a serial killer ancestor. But if I was still profiting from the treasure that that serial killer stole from their victims, than I should feel guilty. And if I was like Limbaugh, and not only profited, but then turned around and lambasted the victims ancestors for being poor and using government services, than I should feel real, real guilty.

  • thascius

    @4-Even though West Virginia seceded from the rest of Virginia so they could stay part of the Union? That’s one of the more bizarre claims I’ve heard.

  • Who Knows?

    Actually, he doesn’t have a point. Well, other than the one on top of his head. When people like Limbaugh say we shouldn’t feel guilty about slavery, they really mean we should feel guilty about slavery, and the couple of hundred years of institutional racism that followed the end of legal slavery. For Limbaugh and those that think like him we did the civil rights movement isn’t based on correcting racial inequality, because that simply doesn’t exist. The civil rights movement has been only about guilt over slavery.

    I’d go further to say that Limbaugh is one of those people who actually believes we did Africans a favor by enslaving them. We brought them out of their squalor, and introduced them to civilization, Christianity, and they have the benefit of living in the greatest country in the world. The problem blacks have now is that they are not grateful for all that we have done for them.

  • I don’t feel guilty about my slaveowning ancestors — but part of that is because I’m not lying about what they did, or trying to retroactively justify any of it. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, I’m not trying to say “You can’t criticize my ancestors ’cause they coulda been worse!”

  • laurentweppe

    If the game is rigged in your favor you don’t have to feel guilty about the fact that the game is rigged, since, after all, you’re not the one who rigged it in the first place.

    BUT you have the moral obligation to:

    Not deny that the game is rigged

    Not pretend that the existing rigging is justified

    Not remain silent when another privileged one breaks rules one and two.

    Otherwise you become complicit to the game-rigging and in this case, you are Guilty as Fuck.

  • freja

    Count me among the confused. I’ve always been told by right-wing Americans that the US civil war was not about slavery, and now Limbaugh suddenly wants credit for the people who fought for the North. Please write about it if right-wingers like Limbaugh’s audience will object to his claim. I’m not holding my breath.

  • eric

    And I don’t believe in collective racial guilt of any kind at all. I don’t think white people should feel guilty for slavery any more than I believe an individual should feel guilty if the found out they had an ancestor who was a serial killer. Each person bears responsibility only for their own actions, not for the actions of people, even direct ancestors, long dead.

    I think, as @5 says, the guilt should be because your current social position and prosperity is a partial result of slavery.* An ancestral serial killer is a bad analogy. Its more like this: your ancestor was a very successful thief. With his stolen money, he sent his kids to school. With their better education, his kids (and their kids, and their kids…) became a relatively wealthy, upper-middle class white collar family, while the victims of his theft continued to be a poor, uneducated, blue collar family, at least in part because your ansector stole the money that would have let them succeed. Their anscestors know what your ancestor did, they are pissed about it, and, frankly, they have every right to be pissed.

    This does not necessarily mean that you personally owe them monetary compensation. But it should at least result in empathy for their position. I.e., some feelings of culpability and a desire to help fix the mess your great-great- etc. caused.

    If that’s not compelling, how about a liberal alternative. Strip Mining magnate Evil Bob has been responsible for the complete destruction of many wilderness habitats, he’s poisoned ground water, rendered farming land unusable, and brought the Happy Fun Owl to near-extinction. But then Evil Bob dies, and Evil Bob junior inherits all his ill-gotten wealth. He’s rich precisely because of Senior’s evil and destructive acts. Now Junior says, using Ed’ logic: that was my dad, not me. I don’t owe the victims anything. I don’t have any responsibility to clean up the water supply, help the farmers, or try and preserve the Happy Fun Owl. None of that applies to me, because I’m a different person. Not one dime of my wealth is needed to go to those causes, and there is no reason for me to feel guilty about having all this money, because it wasn’t my evil acts that collected it.

    Do you buy Junior’s defense? Does he owe nothing to anyone? If you don’t buy Junior’s argument, you should probably not use Junior’s argument in the case of slavery.

    *I’m generalizing. I have no idea what Ed (or any other poster’s) specific ancestral backrgound is, or whether they capitalized directly or indirectly from the slave trade.

  • I just have to echo what John Pieret @1 said. I don’t feel guilty, but I do have to recognize that I have benefits I would likely not otherwise have if it were not for the actions of my ancestors or “close relatives*” (by which I mean other white people, of course). So I do feel an extra air of responsibility for fixing things in addition to it being the right thing to do.

    * I think a lot of my direct ancestors that were in this country at that time were in northern states. Most of my ancestry, though, is from European immigrants that arrived after the Civil War.

  • Who Knows?

    What Limbaugh really wanted to say.

    Apology to the Black Race:

    To the entire Black race living in America, we, the Adamic, pink complexioned race (better known to you as the White race) that came to these shores from Europe, England, Scotland, Ireland, and Iceland, apologize for freeing you from slavery by fighting a horrible war among ourselves that cost the lives of almost two million of our own race. We apologize for continuing to fight among ourselves over that very issue, even though you’ve never told us you appreciate our freeing you.

    We apologize for splitting to pieces our entire race the world over to take sides with you to help you survive and become a freer race. We apologize for forcing the rest of the world to outlaw the slavery which your ancestors had practiced for thousands of years, even though many nations on your home continent still practice it today.

    We apologize for thinking we could civilize you when you have proven that it is indeed an impossible feat, a feat beyond anything we could have ever imagined.

    We apologize for introducing Christianity to you and dragging you away from the Voodoo you previously followed, although you have managed to sneak that religion back into cultic Christianity and our people have accepted it, which is witnessed by their animalistic whooping and hollering and stomping and screaming instead of respectfully worshiping our God as they ought to.

    We apologize for teaching you to add and subtract (what little you can), thereby enabling you to run a household and pay your bills (what few you will) and count your children other than on your fingers and sometimes toes when you have so many you run out of fingers.

    We apologize for providing you with medical care instead of leaving you under the witch doctors you used before we arrived, as a result of which you have been able to survive all sorts of diseases to multiply in massive numbers beyond what you could have without these aides.

    We apologize for building schools for you which we have had to repair over and over after you vandalized them beyond use. We apologize for inventing computers and the Internet; neither of which you use very much, but when you do use them it’s mostly to bash our race.

    We apologize for building factories and businesses that employ you, if you so desire to work. We apologize for creating millions of bureaucratic jobs within our government system simply to give you employment, instead of leaving you to find work on your own.

    We apologize for promoting and buying your music, although you refuse to buy ours. We apologize for talking and acting as you do, although you refuse to talk and act as we do.

    We apologize for placing you in our movies and TV shows and elevating you to a fictional, heroic level that you have never reached in real life. We apologize for creating this false image of yourselves in your minds, for we realize after 400 years of trying to help you that you cannot solve problems and provide leadership and create original thoughts; and the image we’ve placed in your minds causes you to live in a delusional world. For that we truly apologize.

    We apologize for creating quota systems and forced employment programs to make sure you have the best jobs, if you so desire to work. We apologize for thinking we could educate you so that you could learn to build and help others, when you obviously have only the ability to tear down and take from others.

    We apologize for giving you welfare and food stamps, with the result that for four generations over half of your race has not had to work, except in makeshift type of jobs in our governments and bureaucracies.

    We apologize for promoting your children in school as if they could understand basic arithmetic and grammar, such as multiplication and past participles, when we should have made sure they were accustomed to manual labor so that we would not have had to make up jobs for them in our governments dusting seats with their butts.

    We apologize for developing farms in our own lands which you have never been able to do, and that to this day feed most of your race still living in Africa. We apologize for coming to Africa and building farms, from which you have now run us off of and have devastated beyond use, forcing us to continue feeding you.

    We apologize for creating the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank (WB) and U.S. Government Foreign Aid Programs and hundreds of charities that funnel billions of our tax dollars and charitable donations to nations around the world run by your race, all because your race cannot take care of itself by itself anywhere you live.

    We apologize for giving you the right to vote so you could take over all our major cities and turn them into high-taxed, crime-ridden cess-pools that no civilized human being can live in.

    We apologize for creating the term “reverend,” which your leaders use to give themselves credentials and which their actions have denigrated beyond repair, with the result that no decent person would call himself “reverend,” much less a Christian

    We apologize for providing you with warm, custom-made garments instead of the animal skins and leaves that you wore before we arrived. We apologize for providing you with shoes instead of leaving you barefooted as you were before we arrived in Africa.

    We apologize for teaching you how to clean yourselves and your homes, and how to sanitize the water you drink to keep you from getting even more dreadful diseases than the rest of your race gets that still lives in Africa. We apologize for teaching you to cook your foods, which keeps you from getting the hundreds of parasitic diseases that your race gets that still lives on your home continent of Africa.

    We apologize for providing you with solidly built, heated, and cooled homes with grass yards instead of the straw huts and dirt yards you were living in before we arrived, and in which most of your race is still living in in Africa.

    We apologize for inventing sports so that you can make millions of dollars and live like kings, then kill and rape people with impunity, as O.J. Heisman-Trophy-Winner Simpson and Mike Heavy-Weight-Champion-of-the-World Tyson have done, as well as many others among your race.

    We apologize for producing such beautiful people for you to race-mix with, and if they won’t voluntarily mix, you often casually rape them as if you were eating a piece of fried chicken.

    We apologize for building thousands of prisons around the nation to house dangerous criminals, of which your race makes up over sixty percent even though you’re only thirteen percent of the U.S. population, and this at an expense of billions of dollars and manpower every year.

    We apologize for taking precious metals from the earth on your home continent of Africa, metals which you neither knew were there nor how to use them if you had known they were there, but which you love to puncture and cover your bodies with in the most tawdry way imaginable.

    We apologize for those among us who have established charitable organizations, donated billions of dollars and hours of time, and have devoted their entire lives to make life easier and better for your race, although most often to no positive result.

    We apologize for all the stupid White ministers whom your race has martyred in Africa where they were trying to evangelize you to a faith that you can’t understand nor do you want to; yet when you claim to join it soon pervert it with the Voodooist concepts you have inherited from your forefathers.

    We apologize for spending over $2 trillion dollars on welfare and food stamps in the last thirty-five years, funds which your race received the majority of, although you are a small minority among us.

    We apologize for introducing you to the rule of law under a republican form of government, a government that has gone abroad to keep your own warring nations from slaughtering other members of your race by the hundreds of thousands as they did year in and year out before we arrived, and still do every time we leave them alone and do not intervene.

    We apologize for teaching you to read a language that contains more than a few words and a couple of hand signs, which has allowed you to take part in our philosophies, our culture, our art, our industry, our collegial nature, and our freedom, even though as soon as you get around them you pervert them.

    For surely, if you could not read, how could you have learned the teachings of Karl Marx, Mao Tse Sung, Joseph Stalin, Leon Trotsky, Nikolai Lenin, Howard Zinn, the Democrat Party, the Neo-cons in the Republicoward Party, and others who hate our race, and have brainwashed you into believing our race is evil and that you are severely oppressed?

    We apologize for placing you under the form of government that our own forefathers died to create, and for which you are helping to destroy, instead of leaving you under the anarchy you lived under before we arrived.

    For all these wrongs we’ve carried out against you, we apologize deeply and unreservedly, and if you will please accept our apology, we shall happily and immediately take back all of the above mentioned evils we have cast upon you and return you to your home continent, if you so desire.

    We would with the greatest of glee and cheer even provide you with a nice, little stipend for traveling money, if you’d go and take your race-traitor wives and husbands and Mulatto children with you.

    We have enjoyed having you here, but because you claim we’ve been, and are still being, so mean to you, we’d like to atone by helping you get back to where you came from.

    You could live in peace without our persecuting you anymore, and we could save ourselves trillions of dollars over the next few years by shrinking our governments and emptying our prisons. We could take hundreds of thousands of security guards and police officers around the country off their jobs and put them to more productive use, and we could celebrate our own culture without offending you anymore.

  • Don Williams

    Re thascius at 6:

    1) The huge , thick Pocahontas coal deposits of West Virginia were the Saudi Arabia of their day — wealthy investors hired British geologist David T Ansted to scout them out in 1853. Huge fortunes would be made from

    them –they were essential to the US Navy, the British Navy, Big Railroad and Big Steel. Without Pocahontas coal, the Industrial Revolution would have been at a standstill in the USA.

    2) After the War of Northern Aggression was won, European and Northern investors rushed in to rape West Virginia. (The state had been broken off from Virginia without Virginia’s consent –an illegal act expressly prohibited by Lincoln’s vaunted Constitution.)

  • Anthony K

    Why did you post that steaming load of bullshit, Who Knows?

  • Don Williams

    1) One of the Northern Investors who made a ton of money raping West Virginia was Abram S Hewitt:

    2) Abram was the son-in-law of Peter Cooper — one of the richest men in America and

    a primary financier of the Abolitionist movement.

    Like Bill Clinton, Abram Hewitt managed to make a fortune doing the Lord’s Work.

  • Dennis N

    War of Northern Aggression? I didn’t realize it was the North that fired on Fort Sumter to perpetuate the keeping of humans as chattel.

  • Don Williams

    1) Coal , of course, was essential to Big Railroad — both as a source of revenue in transporting it and as the essential material needed to make steel rails.

    Collis P Huntington made a fortune laying the Norfolk and Western Railroad across Virginia to carry coal from

    West Virginia to his new city of Norfolk — created at what would become the massive port of Newport News, Virginia.

    2) Collis did much to develop the current paradigm of a two-faced, corporate-owned Congress:

  • Who Knows?

    Well, If I said there were people that think that way, nobody would believe me. Hell, I wouldn’t have believed it myself.

  • Don Williams

    1) My ancestors in Appalachia fought on the side of the Union — mainly because they saw no reason to let Confderate draft patrols coerce them into protecting the property of rich Tidewater aristocrats who had always screwed people in the mountains. ( The Confederacy had to put Appalachia under martial law due to popular rebellion — Lincoln called it a knife into the heart of the Confederacy.)

    2) But the deeply corrupt Congress rewarded their service by letting Northern plutocrats impose debt slavery on Appalachia — the company store. In which you had to buy at inflated prices from the company store, you had to rent from company houses and you took orders from company supplied politicans and company security forces.

    3) It’s not known to the limpwristed liberals of today but the people of Appalachia had to fight a second war to throw off that slavery:

  • typecaster

    Dennis @17 – I’m partial to calling it The War of Southern Treason, but that doesn’t seem likely to catch on.

  • sigurd jorsalfar

    Let’s assume for a second that white people did fight the civil war to end slavery. What about all those white people on the other side who must have fought the civil war to uphold slavery? They are notably absent from Rush’s ‘argument’.

  • Anthony K

    Well, If I said there were people that think that way, nobody would believe me. Hell, I wouldn’t have believed it myself.

    I guess that’s true. Man, I don’t spend enough time on Stormfront or Free Dominion (the Canadian version). I don’t expect to be changing that any time soon.

  • dingojack

    Don – no it was the Masonic-Papist Muslim-fasco-Marxist Jewish Illuminati on the Trilateral commission (who are naturally members of the Skull and Bones) who were trying to control your precious, precious bodily fluids North Virginian coal.



  • psweet

    It seems to me that if you’re going to argue that West Virginia’s (successful) attempt to secede from Virginia is illegal, then you have to argue that Virginia’s (unsuccessful) attempt to secede from the Union was illegal. Otherwise, the Constitution wouldn’t apply in Virginia at the time that West Virginia left, and the USA clearly had no reason to respect the Confederacy’s founding documents.

  • Don Williams

    You see the same two-faced deceit today. There are 1500+ diaries over at the Democratic site DailyKos devoted to lynching a Hispanic named George Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon Martin in self defense.

    Using the same dishonest propaganda and deceit that racist Southern Democratic prosecutors once used to send innocent blacks up the river.

    Scapegoating Zimmerman was a good way of diverting the attention of black voters away from the Great Wall Street Sellout of 2008 –away from the 15% unemployment the black community has endured in the four years since they helped give Democrats control of the White House, a huge supermajority in the House and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. Anyone seen prostitute Al Sharpton ginning up protests over that?

    Lynching an innocent Hispanic in order to con black voters into thinking the Democratic leadership cares about them –in spite of massive evidence to the contrary — is hysterically funny when you realize that just one month ago the Democrats were stabbing millions of unemployed blacks in the back by importing 20 million more immigrants into the country to take jobs and drive down wages. All in an attempt to con Hispanic swing voters in California, Texas and Florida.

    But what really cracked me up was Obama expressing sadness about youthful black thieves like those breaking into Zimmerman’s housing complex. Democratic governor and Senator Jon Corzine is walking around free years after $1.6 BILLION in customer money went missing at MF Global — and we are worried about teenage looters stealing a stereo?

  • abb3w

    While I’d have some subtle differences in nuance of phrasing and emphasis rooted in some philosophical pedantry, I largely agree with the gist of laurentweppe‘s thesis @9.

    I’d also draw attention to this excellent political cartoon. Seeming excessive number of “Libertarians” apparently fall too close to the figure of the last frame. Non-sociopathic libertarians might leave themselves in better lights by acknowledging a reciprocal increase in obligation to address current social inequities resulting from historical atrocities for those who have benefited from the inequities over their lifetime; and actively trying to publically recognize.

    (Sociopathic “Libertarians” might consider taking steps in that direction anyway, as good PR.)

  • Don Williams

    If I might speak in defense of the “thugs” — regardless of their race. Our economic system has given many teenagers a hopeless future — the unemployment rate for black teenagers like Trayvon Martin in particular has been around 40%. Why should teenagers respect our laws — what moral authority does Congress have left?

    WHY did MSNBC and NBC go to such great lengths to falsely portray Zimmerman?

    Why did they cover up conditions in Sanford — the 10% unemployment rate, the high property crime and violent crime rates, the collapse in property values?

    We know what killed Trayvon Martin. The same thing that kills hundreds of youths every year in the USA: High unemployment breeds poverty and desperation which breeds crime which breed violence which breeds defensive reactions. It is the height of hypocrisy for them to argue we should “stay in the car” when places like Camden, NJ and Chester PA have some of the highest homicide rates on the planet. When the police response time in Detroit is 1 hour.

    Five years after Democrats took control of the White House, House and Senate.

  • dingojack

    Yes but the HUGE unemployment among Blacks is all about the control of W VA coal, right Don?



    Hmm….. according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate for Black or African-Americans in June 2013 is 13.7%. Could it be that Don is pulling figures from an abominable orifice?

  • dingojack

    Note also how unemploment rates for the different races are totally disconnected from each other, historically.


  • dingojack

    Here’s an interesting (although slightly OT) video about the idea that where you live (and how much tax you pay) affects social mobility.


  • eric

    We know what killed Trayvon Martin. The same thing that kills hundreds of youths every year in the USA

    A bullet from a gun.

    What makes this event distinct is that it was fired at extreme close range by a man who had no need to even get close to the person he suspected of being a thief (but wasn’t), and who was in fact told by police not to get close.

  • abb3w

    Incidentally, the two Virginia v. West Virginia SCOTUS cases leave the admission of West Virginia as constitutional as that of Kentucky — and one where there is no longer any party with standing to bring a controversy before the judiciary.

  • kermit.

    Don Williams – I’m trying to get this clear. The South seceded in order to protect West Virginia coal, a state that didn’t exist yet? Or are you claiming that the North would have let them go, except for that coal? You mentioned having ancestors from that area. Some might suspect that those people had focused on the problems they had to deal with, and were maybe less concerned and less knowledgeable about problems other folks were dealing with. Perhaps they passed that provincialism along to you.


    Without claiming to be an expert in the civil war, I’m going to hazard a guess that there were a whole lot of powerful folks who stirred the hornets’ nest of war, and they weren’t always acting in concert.

  • Don Williams

    Kermit at 34:

    1) The small wealthy Confederate aristocracy — who owned the Southern newspapers and provided the jobs — protected their property interests by conning the Southern rabble. We all know about that. And I am not defending them — if Grant had killed off the richest 2 percent of the Confederacy who owned most of the slaves it would not have hurt my head. I think Southern men –most of whom were too poor to even own a slave –were stupid.

    2) But our corrupt historians have always skated past what motivated the Northern plutocrats — who owned the Northern newspapers and provided the jobs. Some Northern fortunes, after all, had been based on hauling the slaves from Africa to the American South — and the Constitutional Convention here in Philly showed no problem with slavery. What changed?

    I think property interests is a more plausible explanation than late blooming altruism. Especially when the subsequent feudal system they set up in Appalachia was devoid of humanity and respect for freedom.

  • Don Williams

    Harvard’s endowment fund, after all, got its start from the slave trade. Provisions for black employment in Larry Summers’ Bailout Policy of 2009 versus Jefferson Davis’ economic plan — compare and contrast.

  • Don Williams

    Shorter abb3w at 33: If we can get 5 corrupt old men to ignore the EXPLICIT wording of Article 4 Section 3 of the divine Constitution then it’s ok.

    We don’t even have to inquire into what extraordinary incentives could have motivated such sophistry at such an exalted level.

    It’s kinda like Exxon’s investment in Iraq

  • Don Williams

    Shorter abb3w at 33: If we can get 5 corrupt old men to ignore the EXPLICIT wording of Article 4 Section 3 of the divine Constitution then it’s ok.

    We don’t even have to inquire into what extraordinary incentives could have motivated such sophistry at such an exalted level.

    It’s kinda like Exxon’s investment in the Middle East versus the Bill of Rights. Anybody noticed who’s winning?

  • It’s also absurdly parochial to claim that only whites have gone to war to end slavery. Just to pick a close to home example, the Haitian revolution had a distinct anti-slavery bent, on account of many of the participants being slaves who objected violently to that state of affairs. The U.S. government refused to recognize the new government for fear it would embolden their own slaves.

    Typecaster #21

    It’s gaining traction in some circles.

  • Skip White

    slc1 @#4:

    It’s like you said “Beetlejuice” three times…

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams

    Huntington, Hewitt, Cooper. What’s going on here. Not a member of the chosen people among them. Ole Don must be off his feed today.

    Of course, he did mention Larry Summers so I guess that makes up for it.

    By the way, if Lincoln had had a couple of Tsar bombs and a means to deliver them, he could have ended the Civil War in a matter of hours.

  • Don Williams

    slc at 41:

    1) As I recall, at least some of the Chosen People were on the other (Confederate ) side:

    (Note that the last reference leaves out that “Belonged to the Ku Klux Klan” part.)

  • Don Williams

    SLC at 41:

    As I recall, some of the Chosen People belonged to the other (Confederate) side:

  • Don Williams


    I think it is hilarious that the Encyclopedia left out the

    “belonged to the Ku Klux Klan” part.

  • Don Williams

    Re Dingo at 29:

    Here is what the Bureau of labor statistics gives for black unemployment for the past 5 years:

    May 2009: 15.0

    May 2010: 15.5

    May 2011: 16.2

    May 2012: 13.6

    May 2013: 13.5

    By my count, that averages out to 14.76% or 15% rounded. If you look at the 4 years of Obama’s first term,

    it was an average of 15.1%.

    But if you want to argue that it is no longer a problem because it is currently only 13.7% then feel free.

  • “The White race has probably had fewer slaves and for a briefer period of time than any other in the history of the world.”

    I’m genuinely curious as to where they get this. I couldn’t say with certainty that it’s wrong, but it sounds ridiculous on its face. Slavery has existed in all societies throughout the world, and no less so in white Europe than elsewhere. That “brief period” stretches back to prehistory.

    But the Atlantic slave trade was something a bit different. It involved the relocation of 12 million or more people to the Americas, plus the enslavement of millions of more of their descendents. I’m not aware of anything of that scale that occurred elsewhere in the world. I suppose that in some population rich areas of Asia, maybe the absolute number of slaves was higher, but in relative terms it was probably lower.

  • kantalope

    “Scapegoating Zimmerman was a good way of diverting the attention…”

    And Zimmerman is what, an Obama-Kenyan/Cuban agent, sent to gun down black kids in the street to cause a distraction? Or maybe Obama is secretly in bed with Rupert Murdock to artificially raise interest in the case to sell adverts on Fox News?

    Don Williams, did you study history with David Barton? And maybe you should check on the fit on your tin foil beanie…it might be too loose or maybe too tight.

  • felidae

    Yes, we fought a war to end slavery but other, more civilized nations just legislated it peacefully out of existence!

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #42

    Ole Don forgot to mention that General Order #11 (1862) was ordered rescinded by Lincoln shortly after it was issued. After the war, Grant apologized for the order. Much like General Sheridan, The only good Indian is a dean Indian, only to become an advocate for Native Americans later on.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #26

    If the elected DA in Sanford had taken the advice of the police officer who was in charge of the crime scene and had charged Zimmerman with manslaughter in the first place, this entire episode would not have escalated into a brouhaha in the first place.

  • slc1

    Re kantalope @ #46

    Haven’t you figured it out yet? Don Williams is a random conspiracy generator.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #26

    Here’s another take from the lynch mob here at freethoughtblogs.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams

    Hey, who come Ole Don isn’t trumpeting this story to the heavens?

  • Azkyroth Drinked the Grammar Too :)

    the lynch mob here at freethoughtblogs.

    Fuck you, you racist piece of shit.

    Hey Ed, didn’t you have a post a while back about how you threw someone out of your house for overt racism?

  • laurentweppe

    Who Knows is a Poe, right? Please tell me that’s It’s a deadpan sarcastic impression of Limbaugh & co’s inflated sense of self worth and not the vicious diarrhea of words produced by an individual whose every breath is an intolerable waste of our precious oxygen that it appears to be at first glance.

  • @54: He copied and pasted that from something that someone posted on craigslist (who probably got it from a chain email), not because he agreed with it, but as an example of how some unhinged individuals think. Although I don’t know that we needed the whole string of nonsense posted here to figure that out.

  • “The only good Indian is a dean Indian.”

    I hate those Indian deans. They should never be allowed to rise above adjunct.

  • abb3w

    @38, Don Williams:

    Shorter abb3w at 33: If we can get 5 corrupt old men to ignore the EXPLICIT wording of Article 4 Section 3 of the divine Constitution then it’s ok.

    First, due to the punctuation the wording has an ambiguity in which clauses are modified by “without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress”. That in 1791 (with the ink on the 13th Constitutional ratification barely dry) Kentucky was formed from cession of territory of the state of Virginia and admitted as a state to the Union would seem to indicate that the founders did not have a problem with formation of new states by such cessions, when the legislature of state and nation were both amenable. (Maine gave another example.)

    Second, the first VA v WV case was actually decided in favor by six “corrupt old men”, rather than five; but indeed, unless you’re going to ignore the EXPLICIT wording of Article III Section 2, they have the authority to address what that wording means in the event of (EG: gramatical) controversy. While Amendment XI does modify Article III, it does so in no way helpful to your thesis.

    Third, in the subsequent VA v WV case, the state of VA expressly conceded the validity of forming WV as part of their own submission to the court.

    Fourth — “divine” Constitution? Evidence for this thesis, please….

  • robertfaber

    @ Area man #45

    Apparently to Rush Limbaugh, those darker skinned Greeks and Romans are just too ethnic for him to consider as Caucasian. Nevermind that the lily white Vikings were hugely involved in the slave trade of the middle ages and held slaves themselves, because he’s never heard of that.

    And fewer? There were more slaves in ancient Rome than there ever were in the South. There were 4 million slaves in the US according to the 1860 census. Rome had as many as 40 million at its height, nearly one in three living within its boundaries.

    White people took a limited break from slaveholding with serfdom instead (slavery lite™, though it could be about on the level of sharecropping, as feudal dues were not uniform and in fact varied wildly). But actual slaves were still held by white people all the way through late antiquity to the colonization of the Americas and into industrialization.

    So what Rush is doing in effect here is pretty dispicable, as he is appealing to his audience’s sense of white supremacy. “Hey, look how much better white people are than everyone else, because we didn’t have a lot of slaves for long”, with the implication that other races were responsible for most of the slavery in human history and as such less worthy as peoples. It’s not only wrong historically, it’s just more white supremacist bullshit from Rush.

  • Don Williams

    Re abb3W at 57:

    Look at what happened:

    1) The lawfully elected legislature of Virginia voted for Secession from the Union.

    2) A small minority in what is now West Virginia then declared itself the Reorganized Legislature of

    Virginia –even though the vast majority of Virginia citizens did not vote to elect its members. (It

    was a puppet government largely created by the Union Army using force — it is not clear that the Wheeling Convention represented even the voters of what is now West Virginia.

    3) Abe Lincoln then deceitful declared the Reorganized puppet to be the real legislature of Virginia — which means he basically shat upon the Constitutional requirement that states be guaranteed a republican form of government. He then claimed that when the puppet voted to secede to form West Virginia it was acting as the legislature of Virginia — which was a crock. The REAL legislature in Richmond did not consent to the formation of West Virginia.

    4) Of course those who bleat about the “rule of law” in the USA never seem to notice that there is no right to vote guaranteed to citizens — which means Congress could rule that a net worth of $1 Billion is a requirement to vote. I don’t know why they don’t just go ahead and do so — it would recognize Reality instead of the

    deceitful circus we now have.

    5( Lincoln didn’t so much free the slaves as he enslaved the rest of us.

  • Don Williams

    If the Wheeling puppet was the real government of Virginia then why does the current legislature meet in Richmond instead of Wheeling?

  • Don Williams

    Re SLC at 51:

    I looked at the article.

    Yemisi Ilesanmi is obviously full of crap — I don’t know if he is intentionally deceitful or just stupid.

  • “It’s like you said “Beetlejuice” three times…”

    More like, “batshit, Batshit, BATSHITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!”.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #61

    Actually, Yemisi is s she.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #59

    As Voltaire put it, Le Dieu se marche avec les gros battalions.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #63

    He’s a comment on a post on Jason Thibeault’s Freethoughtsblog with an amateur psychological evaluation of George Zimmerman.

    I don’t know what to think of this, and rally don’t care. I’m not the Catholic church, which will grant indulgences for good deeds. I also don’t give a rat’s ass if Martin’s intentions were good, in his actions following Trayvon, or in this situation, no mater what the details may be. Plus or minus.

    Martin stroked his ego by playing hero. Nobody asked him to. He was stupid and a coward. IMHO, if he was half a man he would have taken the beating he so richly deserved and learned from the experience. But he was a frightened little hero who wasn’t really fighting Trayvon so much as fighting an imaginary archetypal ghetto thug he had constructed out of his own deepest fears of powerlessness and projected onto Trayvon. So he simply couldn’t allow himself to lose. It would crush his fragile self-image. Trayvon died because Martin couldn’t face the reality of his own bigotry and weakness. The hero isn’t allowed to lose.

    So Trayvon had to die. And Martin had to try use his own fear as a defense and an excuse. An excuse Florida law allows. It doesn’t make mister Zimmerman any less a murderer. Any less a fool. Any less a craven coward who sacrificed Trayvon to keep his illusion of being a hero alive. Saving a bus load of orphans from going off a cliff won’t change that. Nothing he will ever do, or could ever do, will change that. He will always be the ignorant, self-inflating fool who wasted a promising young life, and then played the victim card to get out of taking responsibility for it.

    I suspect he will eat his gun within a few years. He knows the debt needs to be paid. For the comic book hero to have honor he has to take responsibility and punish himself if others won’t. It may take some time but he knows deep inside what he has to do to complete the story and balance the books. After his fame subsides and his supporters crawl back under their rocks he will be alone with his thoughts of how the world is supposed to work. Odds are it will be late at night and around the holidays.

    …and to all a good night.

  • Nick Gotts

    With Don Williams, slc1 and WhoKnows competing, I conclude that this thread is some kind of “Who’s the most fuckwitted racist of all?” contest.

  • Don Williams

    SLC at 65:

    1) If I was going to do amateur psychological evaluations, I would posit that Democrats’ major personal failures lead them to crave a Father Figure who will look after them — and that is why they make incoherent excuses and tortured rationalizations for the massive failures of the Democratic Leadership. That is why they don’t look at the soaring suicide rates in the past 5 years and recognize that the Great Democratic Sellout of 2008 has killed more Americans than Al Qaeda. Including a lot of black youths like Trayvon Martin.

    2) It is also hilarious that the commenter is in such a rage that he/she uses Trayvon’s name while talking about Zimmerman. I don’t know why liberals and Democrats are such spiteful little liars behind the safe anonomity of the Internet — probably because they are such repressed, fearful little cowards in person. Deep down Seething with anger at all the shat they’ve voluntarily eaten because they were afraid to stand up. No wonder Nancy Pelosi laughs at them.

  • Don Williams


    I bet she cracked up when she read that they were throwing an impotent little hissy fit over news reports that she had laughed at them.

  • @66:

    slc1, despite his well documented antipathy towards muslims has not, to my knowledge,. based it on their race (muslims are represented in every hue of the human palette.

    Who Knows cut and pasted a diatribe from another source. Formatting of his comment might make that difficult to understand (a “source: …) might have cleared it up. Having read comments on other threads by WhoKnows, as well as his first comment in this thread @7 and his own clarification of his comment@13 in his comment @19 in reply to Anthony K’s comment @15 seems to pretty much rule out racist motivation as his reason for posting that diatribe.

    Don Williams is definitely a turdouchewaffle of supersize proportions topped with smugstupid sauce but I’m not sure that racism is the driver–he might just be steroidally batshit.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams

    How can ole Don let an indictment of someone named Steven Cohen for economic crimes go unremarked upon? That should give him a field day.

  • Don Williams

    Re Nick Gotts at 66: “Who’s the most fuckwitted racist of all?” contest.

    1) As I noted earlier the obvious winner is the Democratic Leadership. Who last month stabbed several million unemployed black Americans in the back by trying to pass a bill to bring 20 million immigrants in to take jobs and drive down wages. In order to pander to Hispanic swing voters in California, Texas and Florida.

    2) So this month, they put on a massive brouhaha over Trayvon Martin and try to lynch an innocent Hispanic in order to con black voters into thinking the Leadership actually cares about the black community — in spite of massive evidence to the contrary (almost 5 years of 15% unemployment). I don’t think even Jefferson Davis would have assumed blacks were that stupid.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #71

    Gotts is a Limey.

  • Don Williams

    SLc at 72:

    A limey? Doesn’t this place have any standards?

    After all, those are people stupid enough to think we would sell them a Trident nuclear sub without

    an OFF switch ( i.e, a virus to dive to crush depth on receipt of a coded sonar message from buoys

    dropped by a P3 Orion.)

    But shhh. Don’t tell the little dears — they like to think they are still an Empire and have a Navy.

  • Don Williams

    And to answer your question, no –it wasn’t me:

    Regarding Stevie, I think it is just a plot to distract us while Larry Summers is installed as Chairman of the Fed. Although rumor has it that nice Baptist Janet Yellen is in the running as well.

  • “Scapegoating Zimmerman?” Seriously? Zimmerman is being rightly blamed for things he actually did, which isn’t “scapegoating” — especially since he was acquitted. And no, he wasn’t being manipulated by Wall Street puppetmasters — he’s just a belligerent stupid loner trying to be the star of his own dumbass action movie.

    Once again, the loony crank Don Williams singlehandedly re-destroys his credibility.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams

    Raging Bee lives in Fairfax Co., Virginia. I seem to recall ole Don referring to that place as the sewer of the world, or something along those lines.

  • slc1

    Re Raging Bee @ #75

    And no, he wasn’t being manipulated by Wall Street puppetmasters — he’s just a belligerent stupid loner trying to be the star of his own dumbass action movie.

    Does that include his recent adventure where he allegedly assisted another motorist in getting a family of 4 out of their overturned vehicle before the gas tank went off?

  • “Does that include his recent adventure where he allegedly assisted another motorist in getting a family of 4 out of their overturned vehicle before the gas tank went off?”

    One event does not cancel out or excuse the other; Zimmerman is still a murdering piece-of-shit.

  • slc1

    Re Don Williams @ #74

    Regarding Stevie, I think it is just a plot to distract us while Larry Summers is installed as Chairman of the Fed. Although

    Oh boy, another conspiracy theory from the random conspiracy generator.