When Keyes and Gohmert Met

There have been many times in history when great men have met and the world was rapt with attention. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. FDR, Stalin and Churchill. Caesar and Brutus. Ali and Frazier. But all must now take a backseat to the day when Louis Gohmert and Alan Keyes took to the radio together to tell the world that the “elites” want to “depopulate the globe” down to less than 500 million people.


Alveda King's Bizarre Planned Parenthood Conspiracy Theory
That Time Kim Davis Issued a Marriage License to a Transgender Man
Savage: Throw Homeless People in Jail
Ann Coulter Says Namaste to Donald Trump
About Ed Brayton

After spending several years touring the country as a stand up comedian, Ed Brayton tired of explaining his jokes to small groups of dazed illiterates and turned to writing as the most common outlet for the voices in his head. He has appeared on the Rachel Maddow Show and the Thom Hartmann Show, and is almost certain that he is the only person ever to make fun of Chuck Norris on C-SPAN.

  • sbuh

    I’ve heard this 500 million figure bandied about before but I’ve never had the strong desire to look up where it originated. Don’t suppose anyone could give me the short version?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=153100784 michaelbrew

    What are you gonna have them do, just disobey a direct order from the Deity in Chief? It’s not as if anything in the New Testament rescinded that directive, after all. We’d need some kind of testament ammendment. A Testammendment, if you will. Obviously, that would be heresy, of course, per the policy letter stating that none shall add to the Word. Still!

  • http://www.gregory-gadow.net Gregory in Seattle
  • MikeMa

    Can’t listen to either moron without grinding my teeth. What I suspect they are most fearful of is that they are near the front of the cull line. Paranoia and ignorance. Two great tastes that taste great together.

  • Larry

    The IQ in that room must have doubled to at least 12 while the derp went off the scale. If they do that again, it may very well push the planets out of their orbits.

  • sbuh


    Oh, so it’s a hypothetical number some conspiracy nut heard or read once and decided was THE figure that all of the shadowy cabals they believe in had agreed upon at some point.

  • unbound

    Hey, the population reduction conspiracy is absolutely wonderful propaganda for the large corporations. Which makes me wonder if that is the origin.

    You got sick eating some food? It can’t have been that kind, benevolent large corporation with all those caring commercials. It must be the elites trying to kill you!

    Something went wrong with the flu shot you got? It wasn’t due to bad handling practices implemented by the drug industry to cut costs. It must be the elites trying to kill you!

    And before you state that the masses wouldn’t buy it, keep in mind how staunchly people defend Apple or Sony or Microsoft as if they were part of their own family in lieu of the corporations whose only interest is sucking their money away. It is quite telling how effective PR is.

  • Blondin

    If ‘they’ really wanted to reduce the population they could just get their elite scientist buddies to arrange some kind of cataclysmic event (a flood, say).

    But what kind of a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully would do that?

  • anubisprime

    No idea where or how that figure got dragged out of their communal cess pit…but presumably they have calculated on the back of an envelope or napkin that about 500million are teh ghey, wimmins’ that demand abortions, and atheists that hatesess’ god.

    And the rest are liberal elite syentifikals’ that work everyday to kill god and the muppets that worships him!

    But in the end possibly it it just some spurious number that caught their attention like a glittery ball and sounded scary…cos these 500 million folk walk amongst them, sort of, and they are legion…but small enough to confer a status of an elite compared to the rest of the global population and certainly swamps the US with a population only around 313 million.

    But who really knows how the self inflicted brain damaged boogie or what they regard as ‘facts’ or ‘evidence’ …certainly nothing vaguely rational and that’s for sure.

  • Don Williams

    1) You alleged intellects don’t have much sense of history. Let’s look at the Downton Abbey British aristocrats so admired in New York City:

    a) Highland Clearances: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_clearances

    b) Shipping debtors off to Australia and (shudder) Georgia, USA

    c) Starving 1 million Irish to death when they wouldn’t emigrate to USA:


    d) creating the concentration camp as a way to keep the Boers under control

    2)So it may happen some day — probably when the profit rates on the Fortune 500 factory farms/cubicle barns decline.

    If billionaires Haim Saban or Rupert Murdoch express an interest in sheep farming, be afraid. Be very afraid.

    Er.. in non-Democratic sheep, I mean. The ones with fur all over, not just on the face.

  • matty1

    I read the link at three and followed back. Interestingly the source (without the number) seems to have been a memo by the noted communist anti-American Henry Kissinger*, arguing that it would be in the interests of the US to encourage birth control and abortion in other countries because larger populations are rivals for resources and the higher numbers of young people would be easier to radicalise.

    *Pre warning for the hard of thinking this is what we refer to as sarcasm.

  • Chiroptera

    Huh. When I saw the title, I thought this was going to be a romantic comedy.

  • Don Williams

    PS I forgot to cite British PM David Lloyd Georgia starving 1.5 million Germans to death — and then claiming “world Jewry” helped him do it in exchange for the Balfour Declaration creating Israel.

    A Big Lie which caused a slight fracturing in German society –especially among WWI veterans named Adolf.



  • matty1

    I am aware of the history thanks and without wishing to defend the inbred syphilitics of the British aristocracy, it is quite a leap from “they were willing to let people starve rather than see a fall in profits” to “there is a widespread and ongoing conspiracy to reduce the global population to an arbitrary figure”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=523300770 stuartsmith

    If I remember correctly, the 500 million figure comes from a publication by a member of the deep ecology movement, back in the 80s or 90s – I think it was Arnie Naess, but don’t quote me on that. Whoever it was, he actually did advocate for the reduction of the Earth’s population to that level. He picked that figure because he believed it was small enough for humans to live without causing any environmental damage at all (provided they also did the other stuff he advocated, like getting rid of cities and most post-industrial technology.

    To my knowledge, no one else has ever said this, and no one outside of the deep ecology movement has ever agreed with him.

  • raven

    That is Alex Jones Prison Planet/Infowars gibberish.

    He’s been pushing that for years. It is truly lunatic fringe material.

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    The 500M figure does seem to be anally derived. Various estimates of this planet’s “carrying capacity” for humans run from 4-16B according to a quick scan of wiki (I’m sure Conservapedia would go with the highest figure and blame the lower estimates on liebralsienz). As it is most likely a pulled outta your ass stat, we should check with Dondi as to its provenance. He is to reason, logic and lucidity what a $39 pair of car speakers is to “Signal/Noise ratio”.

    “But what kind of a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully would do that?”

    A NY Yankees fan?

  • dogmeat

    Don @ 10 & 13,

    Your understanding of history is superficial, silly, and, a times, downright stupid. And no, I’m not defending any of those policies, it’s just that your interpretation of them smacks of the scribblings on a napkin at a George Webb’s at three o’clock in the morning after a three day bender.

  • colnago80

    Re Don Williams @ #13

    Hey Donaldo, that book by Vincent sells for $233 in hardcover. Sounds like a ripoff to me.

    By the way, Germany tried to do the same thing to Great Britain via the unrestricted UBoat campaign in 1917/1918 and almost succeeded. The First Sea Lord, Admiral John Jellicoe, refused to institute convoys until Wilson’s envoy, Admiral William Sims, went over his head and convinced the First Sea Lord, Admiral Lord Wemyss, to overrule Jellicoe, who was subsequently summarily retired. The convoy system saved Great Britain from being starved out of the war.

  • colnago80

    Re dogmeat @ #18

    About what can be expected from an engineer. Donaldo has shown his contempt for humanities on numerous occasions on this blog.

  • raven

    infowars 2009:

    The eugenicists are back with their latest program to kill an untold number of people under the cover of the “swine flu pandemic.” If you line up for a vaccination contaminated with mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde and other toxins — and a possible agent for future cancers designed to decimate world population — you need to have your head examined.

    However, as Ron Paul indicates, you may not have a choice — the government may force you to choose between a toxic vaccine and a FEMA camp.

    According to Alex Jones and infowars the H1N1 swine flu vaccine is:

    1. Part of a UN population reduction program.

    2. Designed to kill billions of people.

    3. According to Ron Paul, will be mandatory. The flu vaccine or the FEMA concentration camps.

    Of course, this was written in 2009. None of it happened. It was and is cuckoo fantasy.

    In fact, the H1N1 flu vaccine was a great success and saved tens or hundreds of thousands of lives. Mortality was in high in the southern hemisphere without the vaccine. With the vaccine in the northern hemisphere, it was far lower than expected for a novel pandemic.

    The right wingnut and conspiracy theorists are always wrong. They never notice it and just keep on going.

  • caseloweraz

    Suggesting an ideal human population of 250 million — or whatever number — does not equate to thinking humans are a blight on the face of the planet.

    I’d write and tell Alan Keyes that, but I think he already knows. He’s just using the bogus claim of a culling program (a pogrom?) as a talking point.

    It’s just like AGW deniers claiming their opponents think a worldwide catastrophe is imminent and therefore martial law is needed right now, today, chop-chop. (And I note Keyes got in a shot at AGW in this bit.)

  • colnago80

    Re raven @ #21

    An who is Ron Paul’s biggest defender on this blog. None other then Don Williams, aka Donaldo, aka Dondi, aka Donikens.

  • Don Williams


    1) Some more superficial history — the US National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 200) referred

    to by Matty at 11. Aka Henry Kissinger’s Final Solution to the Muslim Problem. dated Dec 10, 1974.


    2) Some excerpts:

    “This document can only be declassified by the White House”

    “Closest to home, the combined population growth of Mexico and

    the U.S. Southwest presages major difficulties for the future. Mexico’s population is growing at

    some 3.5% per year and will double in 20 years with concomitant increases in demands for food,

    housing, education, and employment. By 1995, the present 57 million will have increased to

    some 115 million and, unless their recently established family planning program has great

    success, by 2000 will exceed 130 million. More important, the numbers of young people entering

    the job market each year will expand even more quickly. These growing numbers will increase

    the pressure of illegal emigration to the U.S., and make the issue an even more serious source of

    friction in our political relations with Mexico.”

    “Egypt with about 37 million today is growing at 2.8%

    per year. It will approximate 48 million by 1985, 75 million by 1995, and more than 85 million

    by 2000. It is doubtful that Egypt’s economic progress can greatly exceed its population growth.

    With Israel starting at today’s population of 3.3 million, the disparity between its population and

    those of the Arab States will rapidly increase. Inside Israel, unless Jewish immigration continues,

    the gap between the size of the Arab and Jewish populations will diminish. Together with the

    traditional animosities ── which will remain the prime determinants of Arab-Israeli conflict ──

    these population factors make the potential for peace and for U.S. interests in the area ominous.”

    “Assistance for population moderation should give primary emphasis to the largest

    and fastest growing developing countries where there is special U.S. political and

    strategic interest. Those countries are: India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nigeria,

    Mexico, Indonesia, Brazil, the Philippines, Thailand, Egypt, Turkey, Ethiopia and


    Interesting to speculate what might have happened if that annoying Watergate problem had not


  • raven

    Louis Gohmert is the new Michele Bachmann. Or maybe Ron Paul or Sarah Palin.

    The UN population reduction conspiracy theory is an old and long running lunatic fringe belief without any evidence. It’s been around for decades.

    One of my old coworkers, a Mormon, once told a version to me. I pointed out that the population of most of Europe, Russia, and Japan are falling a lot, right now. And not by force, people just decided at some point not to have a lot of children, mostly for economic reasons.

    His eyes glazed over and he wandered away. Does not compute!!!! Divide by zero errror!!!

    Not so long after that he was fired. For routine incompetence. Which happened to him often. He was an OK guy but sad to say, simply not very bright and not able to hold even a minimally complicated job.

  • garnetstar

    What exactly is wrong with a slow, un-coerced reduction of world population? We’d be able to raise the world’s standard of living and cut back on carbon emissions and environmental damage. There’s nothing in the bible saying that 7 or ten or 20 billion are the magic numbers.

    Sounds like a gosh-darn good idea to me. Of course, achieving it by ameliorating poverty and voluntary use of birth control isn’t what these loons are fantasizng.

  • Don Williams

    Some more excerpts from 1974 NSSM 200:

    “The above basic strategy assumes that the current forms of assistance programs in both

    population and economic and social development areas will be able to solve the problem. There

    is however, another view, which is shared by a growing number of experts. It believes that the

    outlook is much harsher and far less tractable than commonly perceived. This holds that the

    severity of the population problem in this century which is already claiming the lives of more

    than 10 million people yearly, is such as to make likely continued widespread food shortage and

    other demographic catastrophes, and, in the words of C.P. Snow, we shall be watching people

    starve on television.

    The conclusion of this view is that mandatory programs may be needed and that we

    should be considering these possibilities now.

    This school of thought believes the following types of questions need to be addressed:

    – Should the U.S. make an all out commitment to major

    limitation of world population with all the financial and

    international as well as domestic political costs that would entail?

    – Should the U.S. set even higher agricultural production goals

    which would enable it to provide additional major food

    resources to other countries? Should they be nationally or

    internationally controlled?

    – On what basis should such food resources then be provided?

    Would food be considered an instrument of national power?

    Will we be forced to make choices as to whom we can

    reasonably assist, and if so, should population efforts be a

    criterion for such assistance?

    – Is the U.S. prepared to accept food rationing to help people

    who can’t/won’t control their population growth?

    – Should the U.S. seek to change its own food consumption

    patterns toward more efficient uses of protein?

    – Are mandatory population control measures appropriate for

    the U.S. and/or for others?

    – Should the U.S. initiate a major research effort to address

    the growing problems of fresh water supply, ecological

    damage, and adverse climate?

    While definitive answers to those questions are not possible in this study given its time



    limitations and its implications for domestic policy, nevertheless they are needed if one accepts

    the drastic and persistent character of the population growth problem. Should the choice be made

    that the recommendations and the options given below are not adequate to meet this problem,

    consideration should be given to a further study and additional action in this field as outlined

    above. “

  • caseloweraz

    Raven (#21): In fact, the H1N1 flu vaccine was a great success and saved tens or hundreds of thousands of lives. Mortality was in high in the southern hemisphere without the vaccine. With the vaccine in the northern hemisphere, it was far lower than expected for a novel pandemic.

    Ah, that’s what those nefarious elites want us to think! Their vaccine contains a slow-acting toxin. They’ll wait until the tenth generation of Syndicalists humans dies out, then they’ll strike—strike like hawks!


    Seriously, one thing that amazes me about these claims is the slowness of the methods proposed. I mean, “a possible agent for future cancers”? Given how long that would take to cull the population by even 50 percent, most of the so-called elites would be dead before their alleged goal was achieved.

  • raven

    A while ago, decades, I once hung around with the Deep Time ecologists. They look at ecology not in decades but millennia and millions of years.

    The big argument at the time was whether we were mining out the planet and there would be an overshoot followed by a dieoff. This is common in natural populations. The lemming model. (The lemmings don’t commit suicide, they just eat everything up and start migrating with no where to go, then die en masse.).

    The answer is, no one knows. It’s not really an answerable question because humans continually invent new technology to increase the carrying capacity of the earth.

    We will just have to wait and see and find out one way or another.

  • colnago80

    Re Don “Williams @ #24

    Interesting to speculate what might have happened if that annoying Watergate problem had not arose.

    Oh boy, another conspiracy hypothesis from ole Donaldo. Since his ravings hardly constitute theories as understood by scientists, I have come to the conclusion that hypotheses is a more accurate description.

  • colnago80

    Hey Donaldo, how come this tidbit has escaped your notice so far. You really should be reading Mano Singham’s blog on a regular basis. He’s a conspiracy hypothesist after your own heart.


  • raven

    What exactly is wrong with a slow, un-coerced reduction of world population?

    That is happening now in Europe, Russia, and Japan. Without immigration, it would be happening in the USA.

    Populations naturally fall in democracies with prosperity.

    But First World, wealthy democracies are a minority of the earth’s population.

    Going from memory, we in the USA were better off with 5 billion than the current 7 billion. These days we fight wars for oil, watch the climate change rapidly due to CO2, and increasingly wonder where to get more fresh water. Many of the world’s rivers, including the Colorado and Rio Grande, don’t reach the ocean any more. Every bit of their water is pumped out for human use.

  • John Pieret

    Whew! We were a visit by Sandy Rios away from a supidity black hole opening up and swallowing the Earth.

  • Synfandel

    MikeMas wrote:

    What I suspect they are most fearful of is that they are near the front of the cull line. Paranoia and ignorance.

    What I suspect they are most fearful of is that people might stop paying attention to them. Narcissism and histrionic personality disorder.

  • Don Williams

    caselo at 28, raven at 29:

    1) Disease is inefficient — as the death rate rises, population density declines and transmission rate falls due to social distancing. You can almost write a math equation for it.

    2) Where things get interesting is if some of the lemmings have nukes.

    And not the USA lemmings versus the foreign lemmings — more like the 2% lemmings

    versus the 98% lemmings. You could reduce the population of the USA

    by 75% in 30 minutes — more if you tweaked the economy to increase jobs in the

    urban areas and remove them in the rural areas beforehand. Let the fallout

    settle over the Midwest farmland and you might get up to 95% for those “not

    in the program”.


  • scienceavenger

    Hey Donaldo, how come this tidbit has escaped your notice so far

    Because “he”‘s someones failed attempt at a political AI program?

  • Don Williams

    SLC at 30:

    1) While I have contempt for humanities MAJORS I respect the humanities. We don’t do experiments on human societies so we have to look at history as showing the result of naturally occurring experiments.

    2) Fact 1:

    World population was 4.068 billion in 1975 –as of

    2010 it was 6.972 billion. Asia’s population soared

    from 2.397 billion to 4.252 billion, an increase of almost

    2 billion. North America’s population, in contrast,

    only increased by 107 million –from 243 million to 351 million.

    Most of the US Population growth since then has been

    from immigration (40 million) not native births.

    3) Fact 2: Nixon went to China. Asia’s population explosion

    was due to Nixon abolishing US farm support policies and

    encouraging farmers to massively expand their crops to feed

    Asia. That destroyed much of the wildlife habitat in the USA

    – the once huge Pennsylvania pheasant population is

    now almost extinct.

    4) Without consulting with the American People, the elite’s

    Rockefeller Foundation hired Norman Borlaug to create

    high yield cereal grain monoculture — the Green

    Revolution — that drove Asia’s population explosion.

    US government’s AID supported it.



    5) The end result being that US elites now had 4 billion in cheap labor

    – and totally dependent on food shipments from the USA and

    seed from USA’s Monsanto Inc. If you control the food supply, you

    control the Herd. You can even make it lend you money.

    6) Two problems:

    a) Monoculture is very vulnerable to biowarfare — a bug or feature depending

    on where you are sitting.

    b) US Midwest grain production is dependent upon deep well sunk into the

    Ogallala Aquifer. Ogallala is fossil water –it took many millions of years to

    accumulate and is not being replenished by current limited rainfall. As I

    noted earlier, it is shrinking like a suburban swimming pool being drained and

    when it is exhausted we will be back to the Dust Bowl. Tight supplies in the

    USA and I don’t know what happens to Asia.

    PS Ask me about Terminator Genes. heh heh

    7) Meanwhile, the stupid Democratic voters remain as ignorant of what’s going on

    as a herd of sheep grazing in the meadow and thinking that trunk from

    the slaughterhouse is coming to take them to

    greener pastures.

  • Don Williams

    Of course, the growth in Jewish male population in the USA since 1975 has been almost flat, SLC. I

    think Judah Benjamin would be embarrassed for you:


  • http://www.facebook.com/DocMonkey mickwright

    Five hundred million?! What does he think these liberals are? Zentraedi?

  • freehand

    raven@29 The answer is, no one knows. It’s not really an answerable question because humans continually invent new technology to increase the carrying capacity of the earth.

    Well, we seem to. The problem is, most of those increases in food production have really been reliant on increases in exploiting nonrenewable planetary resources. Our fertilizers, for example, are derived largely from potassium and phosphates, which we’ve been mining and washing downstream into the oceans, where they cause algae bloom and subsequent dead zones. Pesticides and herbicides are mostly petroleum products. We should be running out of minerals in mines for fertilizers and oil for poisons in about 20 years… coupled with drought and floods from global warming. We will see famine become a serious topic for everybody in a generation or less. Even western rich sociopaths may see their gated community perimeters breached.

    I would have preferred to see global warming and other such processes controlled, and let the population control itself via middle class options and values as third worlders were lifted by improvements in global living standards. But I fear that it will instead be controlled by nature in the usual ways: famine, war, pestilence, and plague.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/dispatches Ed Brayton

    I’ve had enough of Don Williams and his bizarre rants and thread hijacking. He’s history.

  • colnago80

    Re Don Williams @ #35

    Ole Donaldo cites an article from Faux Noise. They are, perhaps, somewhat more reliable then the Whacknutdaily but not by a whole lot.

    Re don Williams @ #37

    Actually, due to the 1 child per family restriction in China, the population of that country has been growing much more slowly then, say, India. Of course, because most of the fetuses being aborted are women, there is now a large surplus of young males in China that is going to be a source of instability in that country in the not so far future. Sounds like a lot of cannon fodder there.

  • http://aceofsevens.wordpress.com Ace of Sevens

    Wouldn’t the elites benefit from a large population? That gives them more people whose labor to live off of and they can use their wealth to shield themselves from the effects of overpopulation. They may want peopel shipped somewhere else where they cans till leech off their labor without tripping over them in the street and may not feel compelled to intervene if the poor and starving through the effects of their policies, but purposely killing large numbers of people on whose labor they depend would be counter-productive.

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie


    Finally, Ed joins the “Good News Friday!” blogosphere.


    Biking question. I just replaced the shifter cables on my bike and I can’t get the derailleurs adjusted. Can you do it for me if I FedEx my piece-of-shit, $169 dollar 21-speed rustbucket bike to you? I’m only asking because Ed just eliminated one of your hobbies. {;>)

  • Chiroptera

    Ace of Sevens, #43:

    The Tea Partiers think they live in a cartoon. Hence, the main antagonist is a cartoon villian whose goals, methods, and motivations make very little sense to anyone who’s older than 6 years old.

    That this seems to make sense to the Tea Partiers says something about them.

  • DaveL

    About what can be expected from an engineer.

    Wow. That was uncalled for.

  • Skip White

    Ed @41:

    Thank you. Once I see a few of his comments in a thread, the whole thing turns into TL;DR.

  • colnago80

    Re democommie @ #44

    Come on, it will cost more to ship it back and forth then to take it to a local bike shop. I know, I shipped a bike from Orange Co., Ca. to the DC area by Fedex which cost me $100 because it was oversized.

    Actually, I have three bikes, 2 of which have the synchroshift levers. However, I don’t use the synchroshift but instead the old fashioned friction adjusters, which are invoked by turning the bolt on the right hand one (e.g. the one that controls the rear derailleur).

  • colnago80

    Re Ed Brayton @ #41

    I can’t disagree with the decision to give DW the heave ho. However, I have had a longer relationship with him then the other commentors here because of our previous relationship over at Matthew Yglesias’ old blog and must admit that I found his apparent insanity and conspiracy hypotheses endlessly amusing. However, obviously, the other commentors, and, I guess Brayton, found him annoying.

    Hopefully, he can find a venue where we can continue our repartee back and forth.

  • slavdude

    Chiroptera @12:

    “When Louie Met Alan: A Lurve Story”.

  • John Phillips, FCD

    Ed Brayton #41, thank you for that blessed relief.

  • Michael Heath

    Ed Brayton writes:

    I’ve had enough of Don Williams and his bizarre rants and thread hijacking. He’s history.

    Proof that prayer works.

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie


    Yes, I know. I just got through riding the bike the one mile or so uphill to my house. After blowing like a whale for a few minutes I’m right as rain and I have not spent a nickel for gas in two months.

    I have just the one bike and it’s in a sorry state. Otoh, it’s road ready and the Ranger is not. I just discovered that the cheat I had in mind will not work and I WILL have to drill two bolts out of the exhaust manifold–not a job I look forward to doing.