Bundy Ranch Groupies Ready for War — With Each Other

Oh man, the situation at the Bundy Ranch just gets worse. Which is to say, it gets better as the heavily armed conspiracists and wingnuts turn on each other. There have apparently been several instances of people aiming their guns at others and threatening to kill one another because of rifts among them.

RHODES: Now, when [John] Bidler was dropped on his butt– John Bidler– another guy — some Mountain Man militia guy, put his hand on his gun and said, “I dare ya to draw — draw motherfucker, I’m gonna kill ya.” I’m sorry to cuss but that’s what he said. So they were being threatened. Guys with hands on their guns threatening them. That’s why we told them to get out of there. We knew the situation was this close from being a gunfight, right there inside the camp…

RHODES: And this is the tip of the iceberg of the cluster out there. One of our guys from Montana, Rick Delap, who was there from the beginning — he’s been out there for two weeks in the dirt – the day of this confrontation, I come to find out he had to draw on somebody. Two of the Mountain Men guys came up to him — were aggressing on him. Then one of them ran back to his vehicle and grabbed an AR and came back with an AR in his hand and Rick had to draw on him. And those two ran off. That was this close from Rick having to shoot that ding-a-ling. If that guy had raised his barrel, Rick would have had no choice but to shoot him.

Wouldn’t that just be perfect if they started shooting one another?

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  • garnetstar

    That would be great, but unfortunately there is such a simple solution (we’ll hope it doesn’t occur to them): how about if they all go home?

    Don’t they have anything else to do? Most of us gotta work.

    I wish could drop everything anytime and leave my job for a couple weeks for any old reason.

  • Kevin Kehres

    No. It would be awful. I don’t wish violence even on the violent.

    But sadly, I think it’s just a matter of time. What will be interesting is the response from law enforcement and other first responders like EMTs. If I were an EMT, I would refuse to attend to the wounded out of a justified fear for my own safety.

    EMTs are not required to enter into a scenario where they are likely targets. Only after a location is secured do they enter.

    If it’s me as an EMT, I’m not going in until the guns are put away. Because those paranoid delusionals are likely to look on any government-IDd vehicle as a threat.

  • colnago80

    A lot of them are probably are unemployed and are on unemployment insurance.

  • arakasi

    Isn’t an armed society a polite society? I’m sure I heard that somewhere

  • http://www.ranum.com Marcus Ranum

    Deeeeeeeep rifts + rifles: what could go wrong?

  • mck9

    Garnetstar @ 1:

    Don’t they have anything else to do? Most of us gotta work.

    Trouble is, they never learned how to pick cotton.

  • Pierce R. Butler

    Wouldn’t that just be perfect if they started shooting one another?

    For perfection, we would need to find some actual FBI psy-ops agents among the bodies.

    And/or Sharron Angle.

  • Doug Little

    FREEEEDOM!

  • blf

    If they do start massacring each other — not that I want that to happen other than in the sense a near-perfect schadenfreude — it’d be blamed on an Obama “false flag” / agent provocateurs operation.

  • doublereed

    They showed up ready to kill. They wanted federal officers, but I’m pretty sure they’ll make do with anything. It’s a timebomb and if they don’t attack each other, they’ll probably attack people in the neighboring towns or something. I sincerely doubt this will end well.

  • ambassadorfromverdammt

    If they are mostly ranchers, there are likely enough people still on those ranches to take care of daily necessities. I doubt if many are deadbeats.

    Schadenfreude is a gleeful thought experiment, but not a desirable reality.

    I am surprised the feds backed off as they did, and still are. Many saw them as heroes after Waco, and many still do. This won’t be over until Bundy renders unto Caesar.

  • Sastra

    Well, the sad truth is that any group will draw some extremists. Now look at where this group started. Truth went from sad to scary,

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    Now, look, you know darn well these people aren’t dangerous. It’s not like they’re unarmed hippies and college kids in a park.

  • http://artk.typepad.com ArtK

    @ ambassadorfromverdammt

    From the descriptions, most of these seem to be militia-types, not working ranchers. At least one of them has been identified as a deadbeat — living off of disability payments.

    I’m not surprised that the feds backed off at all. While some regarded them as heroes after Waco, many didn’t and given the current political climate, the backlash from a massacre would be tremendous. Far better to sit back and let the heat, tension and boredom do their job.

  • Kevin Kehres

    @11; what ArtK said. These aren’t ranchers. The ranchers in the area are not on Bundy’s side. They’re paying their grazing fees and are a little honked off at him and his “welfare queen” ways.

  • AMM

    ArtK @14:

    Far better to sit back and let the heat, tension and boredom do their job.

    Which is what the authorities should have done in North Philadelphia and in Waco. But who cares how many people get killed, as long as you can prove your manhood….

  • Crimson Clupeidae

    Trouble is, they never learned how to pick cotton.

    …and we have a winner!

  • eric

    Far better to sit back and let the heat, tension and boredom do their job.

    I mostly agree with you. But AIUI there are BLM folk out there who are collecting Bundy’s cattle. Asking them to do their job with hundreds of guns trained on them and no sort of police escort is, frankly, a disservice to them. The fact that they are willing to work under these conditions is pretty heroic, but just because they are willing to work like this doesn’t mean that we are doing the right thing by letting them. This group is a danger to innocent civilians working near and around them. The government not protecting those civilians is not really “far better.”

    There is also some inherent racism here (IMO). Move the scenario to the inner city and make the crazies black, and do you think the government would tolerate this sort of behavior? How long do you think the mayor of New York would tolerate a group of heavily armed blacks camping out in Central Park and grazing their cattle on it? Should we measure that in hours…or minutes? Either way, weeks would be out of the question.

  • Taz

    There’s a very interesting local news report linked to from that site. Worth watching.

    Sheriffs and Las Vegas police put themselves between the protesters and the BLM.

    Assist. Sheriff Joe Lombardo:”We were outgunned, outmanned and there would not have been a good result from it.”

    I-Team reporter George Knapp: “A lot of scenarios could have played out that would have left a lot of dead officers.”

    Assist. Sheriff Joe Lombardo: “If you just have a backfire, somebody pops a firecracker, then it’s over. We’re done. We are going to lose that battle that day.”

  • vmanis1

    Actually, I hope they do all just pack up and go home. While having them massacre each other would be intellectually and emotionally satisfying (and it was Robert Heinlein who, profoundly wrongheadedly, claimed that an armed society is a polite one), think of the consequences.

    1. Bystanders injured or killed.

    2. Militia morons injured or killed. (Yes, these people are creeps, but even creeps have families.)

    3. Obama, Dems, blacks, LGBTs, those in favor of gun control, government of north korea, all blamed for it on Faux and Fiends, for the next 2 years.

    No, the armed morons should go home, paint their `Get Your Government Hands Off My Medicare’ signs, and go to Tea Party rallies.

  • Donnie

    Any teenage kids around with a remote controlled airplane and an M-80?

  • Synfandel

    @2 Kevin Kehres wrote:

    EMTs are not required to enter into a scenario where they are likely targets. Only after a location is secured do they enter.

    So, in the land of the second amendment the EMTs don’t enter until there are no people.

  • Synfandel

    What if we just arm the EMTs. Then they’re perfectly safe, right?

  • http://www.thelosersleague.com theschwa

    “Skin that smoke-wagon!”

  • Reginald Selkirk

    I’m sorry to cuss but that’s what he said.

    Shooting someone dead might be necessary, but how dreadful to have to cuss.

  • Kevin Kehres

    @22…Pretty much.

    When I was in the newspaper business, in the instances where I had to report on a shooting-in-progress, the EMTs were very much kept at a safe distance until after the cops had gone in and determined there was no threat to them. It was the standard protocol for both. And this was even before the days of luring first responders to a scene for an ambush. I’ll bet the rules are at least as stringent now.

    I also stayed as far back as possible until the all-clear was given. The facts will still be there long after the bleeding has stopped, or has been transported to a trauma center.

    If shooting does start over in Bundyland, I hope some of the participants know how to tie a tourniquet. Cuz it might be a while before help arrives. EMTs put themselves in harm’s way every day — but not recklessly so.

  • raven

    This isn’t the only incidents. There was an article today on it.

    1. They threatened to blow up the hotels where the BLM was staying. And shoot the hotel staff if they didn’t kick the BLM out.

    2. They also poured lighter fluid around a News vehicle and threatened to burn it up.

    A lot of these are Sovereign Citizens including Bundy. As listed on another thread today, SC’s have killed 6 cops. It seems to be a favorite target of theirs.

    And yeah, it is a matter of time until they get bored and do something horrible to someone. If nothing else, the police are compiling evidence and names and will try to arrest some of them for breaking various laws. I don’t see them going without a gun battle.

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com WMDKitty — Survivor

    Sweet.

    Pull everyone else out of range, let these bozos have at each other, and when it’s done, arrest the survivors.

  • Olav

    Ed:

    Wouldn’t that just be perfect if they started shooting one another?

    You know better. Of course it would not be perfect if there really were a bloodbath. I do understand the sentiment and perhaps it is true that the deaths of some of these idiots would not be a great loss to mankind. But as humanists we should strive to improve and de-escalate situations like this, not drive them to some extreme.

    Even if for no other reason than to prevent children becoming orphans, and people in advanced age to lose their adult children.

    I do feel the police forces should have methods to deal with situations like this and that they should be able to intervene without causing a bloodbath themselves.

  • Scr… Archivist

    Summer is coming….

  • chilidog99

    Do this. Google up the Clark county tax assessors web page.

    Find the link where you can search propert records by name

    Enter “Bundy revocable” in the last name field (do not put the word “trust” in, it won’t work$

    Three parcels will pop up. Two for the ranch and one for a moble home on a lot in town.

    The ranch house is 1086 square feet, with two bedrooms and one full bath.

    How in the name on all that is decent did this clown raise 14 kids there?

    There is a big piece of the puzzle missing here.

  • moarscienceplz

    Maybe, just maybe, all these freedom-loving folks in their small western towns will start to remember why the wild west was “tamed”. It’s kinda hard to pursue happiness if there’s a good chance that anybody you pass in the street could blow you away on a whim.

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    I admit to being a bit confused.

    If Bundy had been doing this shit for years (the nonpayment of taxes and fees and the bluster about SCM and they knew he had that many people out there, why the fuck didn’t the county sheriff, city cops and STATE police ALL show up along with the BLM in the first place? It’s not like this asshat, Bundy, was going to say, “Yeah, ya got me; let me tousle mah boy’s hair, tell the girls to be brave, pat mom on the fanny and turn the stock out to graze so’s they don’t starve to death.”.

    Sounds like piss poor intel all the way around–Just like MOVE, just like Waco, just like Ruby Ridge, just like 9/11. Either bad information or no information from a host of agencies who are supposed to be experts at the tasks of gathering and analyzing intel.

  • http://onhandcomments.blogspot.com/ left0ver1under

    This is what happens when people start searching for ideological purity, it gets more and more “pure” (read: divisive) and fundamentalist. And the more pure it is, the less rational and fewer cooler heads there are. If you want to know what would happen were the US to become a “christian nation”, New Mexico is an example.

    No, I won’t be laughing if it turns into a circular firing squad, but I won’t be surprised. And I won’t be surprised if Fox Nuisance blames everyone but themselves despite they being the ones who tried to incite violence.

    http://selfsufficientsteward.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Matson-St.-Louis-PD.jpg

    This is what the “don’t tread on me” types have ended up doing:

    xenohistorian.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/snake-fail.jpg

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Wouldn’t that just be perfect if they started shooting one another?

    Not really although there are worse scenarios.

    Best if violence and deaths are kept to a minimum.

  • dingojack

    “Two of the Mountain Men guys came up to him — were aggressing on him.”

    ‘Aggressing’? Is there something in the water out there that stunts the use of modern English?

    Dingo

  • pocketnerd

    Thus Spake ZaraStevoR, #35:

    Not really although there are worse scenarios.

    Best if violence and deaths are kept to a minimum.

    Exactly. Even if you take an utterly cynical view and discount the value of human lives (which I don’t), bear in mind any violent outcome will be spun to maximum effect by the angry and paranoid wingnuts. A nice, quiet, peaceful, boring end may not provide the vicious satisfaction of seeing a critical mass of crazy and the ensuing kooklear explosion, but it also gives Fox News the fewest talking points for the next few years.

  • http://www.pandasthumb.org Area Man

    Wouldn’t that just be perfect if they started shooting one another?

    Even more perfect if it causes Bundy to freakout and call in the Feds to remove them.

  • birgerjohansson

    Pass out marijuana at the ranch. so they get mellow.

  • anubisprime

    birgerjohansson (UTC -4)

    Pass out marijuana at the ranch. so they get mellow.

    Hell no…Bottles and bottles of… JD ol’ no;:7 Tennessee side bash rot gut whisky that will do the trick, and the cops can go in and pick up the remnants next morning who will be rather less likely to pose macho with an earthquake in the skull and blurred vision and severely exacerbated bowel problems!

  • howardhershey

    Most likely these are people on disability (aka, what is often white rural welfare), or are “between jobs”, or can’t find a job because of ‘blacks’ or ‘Mexicans’ or their ‘ex-wife’ getting all the jobs or money (when they aren’t leaching off real Americans). Whatever reason they can afford to be there, it is always, always, always someone else’s fault. These are grievance collectors. Short-tempered ones.

  • Artor

    Syfandel @23

    “What if we just arm the EMTs. Then they’re perfectly safe, right?”

    That would be fine. They can shoot Bundy, then patch him up. Then shoot him again. Rinse. Repeat as necessary.

  • dingojack

    I’d recommend Kava (Piper methysticum) it will keep them mellow without impairing their idiotic burbling in any way.

    Calm, relaxed, incapacitated, but able to front a court to prove themselves asses. The perfect solution.

    Dingo

  • blf

    So where are they getting, and who is funding, the essential supplies (food, potable water, …) ?

  • http://polrant@blogspot.com democommie

    “Pass out marijuana at the ranch. so they get mellow.”

    They’re the self-reliant live offa the land types. They’ve already found the Jimson Weed.

    @44:

    Shhh, Bundy doesn’t know that they’re eating his cows.