Welsh Christians Want Satan Removed From Flag

“A flag is a symbol and I leave that to the symbol-minded.” — George Carlin

A group of Christians in Wales is throwing a fit because the Welsh flag has a red dragon on it, which they claim is a symbol of the devil himself. They want it removed immediately.

A group of Christians say Wales’s national flag is “demonic” and should be changed.

The Welsh Christian Party claims the red dragon on the nation’s standard is at odds with the country’s position as a Christian nation. It wants the flag to be replaced with the black and gold cross of St David.

Party leader the Rev George Hargreaves said a symbol of the devil should not “reign over Wales for another moment”. He said: “Wales is the only country in history to have a red dragon on its national flag.

“This is the very symbol of the devil described in the Book of Revelation 12:3. This is nothing less than the sign of Satan, the devil, Lucifer, that ancient serpent who deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.”

Which might be relevant if there was such a thing as Adam and Eve, the garden of Eden or the devil.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • D. C. Sessions

    Just imagine how powerful Satan has been, that he’s kept Christians around the world (including the entire Catholic Church) from discovering his portrait on the flag until now.

  • http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

    Anyway don’t the idiots believe that Adam and Evan’s tempter was a snake?

    The dragon goes with St George (or, if they must go Welsh Merlinus Ambrosius or Merlinus Caledonensis):

    any fule kno that!

  • raven

    That is nothing.

    The US flag has 50 pentacles on it. Stars. Thought by some to be a symbol of satan.

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    Party leader the Rev George Hargreaves said a symbol of the devil should not “reign over Wales for another moment”. He said: “Wales is the only country in history to have a red dragon on its national flag.

    Can he point to any specific evil that plagues only Wales? Or is he able to deal with reality on that level? The fact that he’s freaking out about a SYMBOL that’s been around for CENTURIES, as if its’ some newly-discovered injustice, strongly suggests he isn’t.

  • raven

    the devil, Lucifer, that ancient serpent who deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.”

    Bible trivia. The smartass, walking, talking snake in the Garden wasn’t satan!!!

    The snake in the Garden lost its legs due to a vengeful deity. But then he went out and found a girl snake and they had babies together. Leading to the present day reptile subgroup. They even went on the Big Boat.

    This is believed by some xians. And considered a major heresy by others. Pick your own myth. But IMO, the Garden snake can’t be satan. Satan wasn’t even invented until Job where he appears as god’s good buddy.

    PS There are also dragons in the bible. They aren’t satan either!!!

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    Once upon a time there was a YEC named Mark Hausam, who, IIRC, presented himself on Panda’s Thumb as a minister in some nowheresville town in northern Wales. I wonder if he’s involved in this stupid little freakout.

  • shouldbeworking

    The Welsh Christian Party must love another symbol widely used in England, that of St. George slaying the dragon. I’m sure the Welsh CP would rather have that ancient symbol on their flag instead.

  • Larry

    Can he point to any specific evil that plagues only Wales?

    Have you seen how they spell names of their towns? It makes baby jebus cry to try and pronounce those abominations.

  • dingojack

    Revelations 12:3

    “And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.”

    Perhaps the Rev. needs an eye-test.

    What do you think?.

    Dingo

  • mikeedwards

    Trust me, this is being met with as least as much scorn by the people of Wales as by anyone here. Wales takes great pride in it’s pagan roots.

  • D. C. Sessions

    Can he point to any specific evil that plagues only Wales?

    And is as old as the flag?

    Well, there’s laver bread.

  • http://howlandbolton.com richardelguru

    Ah!

    St George:

    patron saint of Aragon, Catalonia, Georgia, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Germany and Greece; and of Moscow, Istanbul, Genoa and about half of Venice; and also of soldiers, archers, cavalry and chivalry, farmers and field workers, riders and saddlers; and, finally, those suffering from leprosy, plague and syphilis (though not necessarily all at the same time)! Oh! Yes! And patron saint of England…

  • blf

    Can he point to any specific evil that plagues only Wales?

    England?

    The “Prince” of WalesWoo-Woo (Charlie Windsor (née Saxe-Coburg and Gotha))?

    GBP (UK£)?

    Admittedly, those disasters don’t plague only Wales.

  • corporal klinger

    I spent 3 wonderful months as a school exchange student in Wales when I was a young man 33 years ago. I admit I know little about welsh culture and history but I know that welsh culture is much, much older than the christian. I’m so done with relidiots DEMANDING whatever comes across their stupid minds any time of the week. The welsh flag is beautyful, a red dragon a more impressive and powerful symbol as a torture instrument. Back the fuck off, assholes!

    Your cult has done enough harm since 333 (stardate unknown).

    If you want to get upset about something I suggest you take a look at the following article. Just another crime on the long criminal record of religion. Truly, religion poisons everything

    http://www.thejournal.ie/tuam-mass-grave-babies-1488267-May2014/

  • http://zenoferox.blogspot.com/ Zeno

    Anyone have some old “Love It Or Leave It” bumperstickers lying around?

  • voidhawk

    ““Wales is the only country in history to have a red dragon on its national flag.”

    I was shocked to discover that, thanks to the unusually careful language, they seem to be telling the truth! Of course, it’s only RED dragons which are a problem. China had a blue one, Bhutan has a white one, malta has an uncoloured one. Moscow has an uncoloured one…

    Somerset does have a red dragon, but that’s a county, not a nation.

    At least I learned a little bit of pointless vexiology from this.

  • Synfandel

    Okay, here’s the flag of Wales.

    And here’s Revelation 12:3:

    And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

    Anyone see seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns?

  • corporal klinger

    ^17

    Again, as far as flags and symbols go, beautyful.

    Off topic, but there:

    http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/83580/MY/

  • caseloweraz

    The dragon as a symbol of might is very common on historical flags (though not so common today.)

    Check out the flags of Bavaria and Mecklenburg/Pomerania, shown here.

    Something else for Christians to obsess about. Then they can give us another round of Proctor & Gamble bashing. Or they could go after the name, as in Red Dragon Airsoft, Red Dragon Paintball, Red Dragon Yoga.

    Then of course there’s this nefarious product.

  • busterggi

    Arthur Pendragon would be spinning in his grave if he had one.

  • blf

    Anyone see seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns?

    With enough Welsh beer or other refreshments, I presumably could…

  • iknklast

    That dragon is one of the coolest things on a flag ever! They can’t do this…

  • blf

    Something else for Christians to obsess about. Then they … could go after the name, as in Red Dragon [stuff].

    Dragon Stout? No “Red” in the name (albeit the same company brews Red Stripe), but the namesake dragon is certainly red. Not Welsh either (Jamican), but as I recall there is a considerable Jamaican / Caribbean / West Indies presence in (south?) Wales, the stuff is certainly available in the UK (and worth trying (but be careful, it’s rather strong)!), and beside, facts don’t really matter to these nutters.

  • urbanwitch

    My Beanie Baby Welsh Red Dragon is ignoring them as irrelevant nincompoops!

  • dugglebogey

    Which might be relevant if there was such a thing as Adam and Eve, the garden of Eden or the devil.

    Or Red Dragons, for that matter.

  • Trebuchet

    Can he point to any specific evil that plagues only Wales?

    How about that time rift in Cardiff, that keeps letting demons through? He’d call them demons, anyhow.

  • dingojack

    Synfandel – Protip. Read the comments carefully, then post.

    😀 Dingo

    ———–

    See #9

  • http://en.gravatar.com/mrupright Mr. Upright

    Upon reading this to my wife, who did student teaching in Wales many years ago and brought back a souvenir flag, she replied, “so maybe my flag will be worth something some day.”

  • Crimson Clupeidae

    Well, everyone knows the chromatic dragons are evil. The metallic drakes are good (or at least neutral), though. 😉

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    A group of Christians in Wales is throwing a fit because the Welsh flag has a red dragon on it, which they claim is a symbol of the devil himself. They want it removed immediately.

    Dafuck!?!

    bhujfhfgihjhjhuiihjhuhiuuiuuuiu9u9h

  • rogerstanyard

    The Welsh Christian Party is headed by George Hargreaves who, it appears, is its only member. Alas Hargreaves also lacks credibility as he isn’t even remotely Welsh and doesn’t even live there.

    He’s been spouting this stuff about the Welsh flag since 2007.

    He;s one stop short of East Ham.

  • matty1

    @23

    As I recall there is a considerable Jamaican / Caribbean / West Indies presence in (south?) Wales

    Not that I’ve noticed, the Caribbean community in Bristol just over the border always seems more noticeable than anywhere in South Wales. I am curious about that beer though, there have been links between Wales and Jamaica, most noticeably with Captain Morgan (yes that one) who was brought up near Cardiff.

    As for the flag issue it is a joke, I doubt the proposal will get beyond the inside pages of local newspapers (if that) and it certainly has no chance of getting serious debate let alone an actual change.

  • http://anffyddiaeth.blogspot.co.uk Dylan Llyr

    This story is actually from 2007. The original story can still be seen here here (note that all the quotes used are identical). Apparently, it was one of those cases where somebody stumbled across it recently, shared it around, and people started assuming it was new. Including the Associated Press (rather careless of them), which is where HuffPo picked it up.

    Just to explain, there’s nothing Welsh about the “Welsh Christian Party”, which is merely what the UK Christian Party (itself a laughably tiny handful of morons) calls its one or two members in Wales. George Hargreaves, the man quoted in the article, was the leader of the UK party at the time and has no connection whatsoever with Wales.

    Hargeaves’ story is quite funny actually. He’s a bigot and a homophobe and all that nonsense, but he wasn’t always thus. You’ll probably be amused to learn that the party was at the time almost entirely bankrolled by Hargreaves himself, using [drumroll!] royalties from the hit song So Macho, which, in a previous life (the 80s), he wrote and produced for Sinitta. It’s something of a gay anthem and remains a source of steady revenue for the old weirdo.

    I’m Welsh, and as flags go I think ours is rather good. If it pisses off a certain type of religious fuckwit, so much the better. I remember this story at the time and everyone just laughed.

  • Dave, ex-Kwisatz Haderach

    So, if the Welsh are done with the red dragon flag, can we have it? It really is a badass design. I love to see it in place of the boring old maple leaf.

  • mareap

    Maybe the good rev is a Lannister and is worried about those damn Targaryens?

  • http://famousatheists.net/atheist-quotes/ Atheist Quotes

    I always thought a red dragon was a sign of bad breath not a devil.

  • http://Reallyawakeguy.blogspot.com somnus

    But it’s just ceremonial satanism. It’s there because it’s tradition, but it doesn’t really *mean* anything…

  • lsamaknight

    To busterggi @ 20

    No, I figure that King Arthur’s response would be something more along these lines:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ60hbFo0oI

    (Just for the record, King Arthur is the diminutive blonde in blue in that clip. The obnoxious blond in the blinged out armour is Gilgamesh, the redhead in the flying chariot is Alexander the Great, the one in green with the spear is Diarmuid Ua Duibhne and the one on the receiving end of all that pain is Gilles de Rais)

  • Ichthyic

    Welsh Christians Want Satan Removed From Flag

    …said the rest of the Welsh to the Christians:

    …well, frankly I couldn’t understand a word of it, but it sure sounded like an insult.

  • http://onhandcomments.blogspot.com/ left0ver1under

    The religious extremists don’t want a dragon on the flag? Yet they don’t say a word about a mass murdering child killer as the basis for the English flag, “saint george”, who allegedly killed a dragon…or a crocodile. Oh, that’s right, he was killing moors in the name of christianity, so that’s okay.

    Their lack of concern that catholic priests have been just as “busy” in Wales says a lot about those worried about a flag.

    raven (#3) –

    The US flag has 50 pentacles on it. Stars. Thought by some to be a symbol of satan.

    Do you remember or did you hear how the fundy christian windbags ranted about the European Union and “the rise of the antichrist” when there were thirteen members and thirteen stars on the flag? Funny how they never admitted being wrong when it never materialized.

  • rogerstanyard

    Yer, and there is another set of fundies who think that the dragon on the Welsh flag proves that mankind co-existed with dinosaurs and therefore evolution is wrong. (I’m not making this up.)

    Bit like the “flegs” issues in Northern Ireland. They riot when someone flies a “fleg” and riot again when they don’t. They riot when someone shows a “fleg” that might be the wrong sort of “fleg”. Then they display their stupidity by flying their “flegs” upside down.

    Their side is always “oppressed” by someone else’s “fleg”. Then they wonder why the place is a right dump..

  • rogerstanyard

    Bil Dembski, the Isaac Newton of the Information Age who did a runner from the Dover trial and has not been heard of since, complained bitterly that the UK’s £10 note had a picture of Charles Darwin on it. Clearly this was satanic money that should have all been handed over to fundies to save ourselves and was the root cause of the UK’s economic problems from 2008 as well as gay marriage, the holocaust and [make up anything you want here].

  • John Phillips, FCD

    Matty1, re Caribbean and S Wales, for starters, heard of Tiger Bay in Cardiff. It no longer exists as such any more, having been gentrified and redeveloped. But it used to be a great big ethnic melting pot due to the docks, which at one time were among the busiest in the world shipping Welsh coal worldwide.