Duck Dynasty Star Emulates ISIS While Targeting Them

Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Oh hell, let’s not mince words — he’s a fucking moron. After spouting lots of stupid about gay people, now he’s wading in to foreign policy and proving once again that he really should shut the hole that makes the words. And he’s doing it, of course, on Fox News, which thinks guys with long beards look like terrorists. Except when they don’t.

While Barack Obama may not have a strategy for dealing with ISIS, Robertson laid out a stark, black-and-white choice for Americans in an interview with Fox News Channel’s Sean Hannity Tuesday night.

“You either have to convert them, which I think is almost impossible,” Robertson told Hannity. “I’m not giving up on them, but I’m saying convert them or kill them.”

Hey, you know who else says the exact same thing? ISIS.

“Worldwide, planetwide, biblically speaking, two groups of people – the children of God and the whole world is under the control of the evil one,” said Robertson. “That’s 1 John 5:19. Ephesians 2 says: The evil one works in those who are disobedient. Galatians 3: They are prisoners of sin. Second Timothy 2: The Bible says they’ve been taken captive by Satan to do his will.”

I’m not likely to take seriously anyone who thinks the world is this simple.

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  • scienceavenger

    Nice to see Hannity with a guest worthy of his towering intellect.

  • sh3baproject

    he has a mancrush on ISIS’s leader. thats why he acted like a bigger fool then usual on faux.

  • kyoseki

    If I were a resident of Louisiana I’d be more than a little pissed that my tax money goes to subsidizing these assclowns.

  • steve78b

    Steven 3:33 ….And you shall know the idiots from their appearance on Faux News…….

    saw 2 minutes of Duck Dynasty and realized I needed some bleach for my brain….

  • cptdoom

    The evil one works in those who are disobedient.

    You mean like Protestants? Just wondering if that was a part of scripture Mary 1 used to earn the nickname “Bloody.”

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy. Unless you already are him, then get booked on FoxNews.

     

    I’m not likely to take seriously anyone who thinks the world is this simple.

    Look, the world is a complicated place. I mean, there’s Us and Them.

  • Artor

    Cpt. Doom, that would probably be Luke 19:27. “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.”

    Straight from the mouth of Jebus. Well, by way of the original Greek, supposedly translated from Aramaic, forged under Luke’s name, and badly translated into English.

  • Rasalhague

    I dunno. It’s not at all obvious to me whether he’s a moron, or whether he’s just playing one on TV.

    It’s not like there’s anything else about his TV persona that’s for real.

  • busterggi

    Anyone whos world view is made up almost entirely of quotes is not worth listening to, especially bible quotes.

  • Doc Bill

    Hannity and Fox just don’t give a shit anymore, if they ever did. Having the Duck Guy spout off on international politics is, up to now, the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen.

  • jonathangray

    When confronted by a fanatical enemy who wants to destroy you, what options are there other than convert or kill?

  • bahrfeldt

    The Robertsons, Pat and Phil, are just two more ranting, raving rethug chickenhawks. “Get over there and die for me, maggots!.” Besides, American wars in the Middle East have worked out real well lately, huh?

  • http://en.uncyclopedia.co/wiki/User:Modusoperandi Modusoperandi

    jonathangray, “have a sense of proportion”?

  • ragarth

    I wonder what it’d take to set up a mock Jihadist conversation and tape them paraphrasing what Phil here says. Post it on youtube, see how many people scream about it, then post a side-by-side a week later.

  • shay

    If you had never heard of Fox News, the fact that they interviewed someone from Duck Dynasty about ISIS would tell you everything you needed to know.

  • John Pieret

    The comments at WingNutDaily are, believe it or not, even crazier and stupider than Phil’s.

    My favorite was:

    Please pray that I’ll be able to get my two guns out of pawn soon

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @15. shay :

    If you had never heard of Fox News, the fact that they interviewed someone from Duck Dynasty about ISIS would tell you everything you needed to know.

    Hey, China can have a Sing Dynasty and a Tang dynasty then America can surely have a Duck dynasty yeah?

    On the other hand, ISIS might be considered funny were it not beheading people and committing all that genocide. I certainly don’t think we can convert ISIL / IS to anything but bloody shrapnel.

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @ 11. jonathangray asks : “When confronted by a fanatical enemy who wants to destroy you, what options are there other than convert or kill?

    & Modusoperandi replies : “have a sense of proportion”?

    ‘K. How does that that help when you have a group of Jihadist terrorists running around taking over large parts of Syria and Iraq and threatening to do worse and committing genocide and beheading unarmed prisoners exactly?

    Seriously, how does the West stop a group like ISIL without violence?

  • John Pieret

    Seriously, how does the West stop a group like ISIL without violence?

    Why is it the West’s duty to stop them instead of Turkey, the Kurds, Iraq, Iran and even Syria? Sure we can lend them support, such as tactical bombing and intelligence and better weapons (which we are doing) but we can’t “bomb them back to the stone age” (which we tried once and didn’t work) short of nuking the whole area or starting a full-scale Third Iraq War with a minimum of a quarter of a million western boots on the ground. Please tell me neither of those options are what you want us to do!

  • jonathangray

    Modusoperandi:

    “have a sense of proportion”?

    So what would a proportionate response be? Shut our eyes and hope they go away?

  • laurentweppe

    he has a mancrush on ISIS’s leader. thats why he acted like a bigger fool then usual on faux.

    Funny how right-wingers so easily develop crushes on former KGBists and islamist leaders: it’s almost as if tyranny itself, more than its multitude of ideological excuses turn them on.

  • John Pieret

    jonathangray @ 20:

    So what would a proportionate response be? Shut our eyes and hope they go away?

    So, go ahead and tell us what a “proportionate response” would be! Does it involve nukes or a quarter million (mostly American) troops on the ground? What?

    It’s easy to snidely criticize, it’s harder to strategize. Go ahead, give us your deep understanding of what Americans should do!

  • jonathangray

    John Pieret:

    So, go ahead and tell us what a “proportionate response” would be! Does it involve nukes or a quarter million (mostly American) troops on the ground? What?

    Overwhelming military might is surely an inappropriate response to a group whose tactics (vis a vis the United States) are essentially psychological. They are masters of psychological warfare, sticking pins in America’s backside while it lumbers around flailing the air like a helpless giant. A real-life Tom & Jerry (or Itchy & Scratchy).

    Go ahead, give us your deep understanding of what Americans should do!

    If I were King of America, I would issue a statement to the effect that for every American hostage beheaded on YouTube, three jihadi sympathisers in American custody will be immediately beheaded — on YouTube. I would issue a further statement to the effect that any grand attacks on American citizens or institutions will immediately result in the Kaaba being bombed to rubble.

    You’re welcome.

  • http://theophontes.deviantart.com/art/Tardy-Ak-385824644 theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ StevoR

    Hey, China can have a Sing Dynasty and a Tang dynasty then America can surely have a Duck dynasty yeah?

    Yeah, you can leave your inherent bigotry out of your jokes.

    bloody shrapnel …. violence

    Always the same narrowminded solution with you, StevoR. At least fucking duck-hunter could think of one alternative to murdering the lot.

    Phil Robertson is not as much a fucking moron as you are.

  • skinnercitycyclist

    @jonathangray #23:

    If I were King of America, I would issue a statement to the effect that for every American hostage beheaded on YouTube, three jihadi sympathisers in American custody will be immediately beheaded — on YouTube.

    OK, OK, you have made your point: you are the stupidest troll in all of Toyland.

    Surely it’s time for your meds?

  • John Pieret

    If I were King of America, I would issue a statement to the effect that for every American hostage beheaded on YouTube, three jihadi sympathisers in American custody will be immediately beheaded — on YouTube.

    Oh, right! Americans should announce we will be a savage as ISIL! Should Obama do the beheadings or would Biden be good enough? Okay, now we know you are a moral moron to go along with the rest!

    I would issue a further statement to the effect that any grand attacks on American citizens or institutions will immediately result in the Kaaba being bombed to rubble.

    And, of course, the next time we find a pedophile priest, Saint Peter’s is is toast!

    Are you trying to be a parody of a Right Wing nutter?

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

    Dude, you’re way too kind– he’s not even a spoon.

    And by the way, the name is ISIL, not ISIS: Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, according to fellow FTBer Kaveh Mousavi, who seems to know the language better than most of us. Isis is the (Romanized) name of an ancient Egyptian goddess; and anyone who shows any sign of worshipping her would most likely be beheaded by ISIL; so please stop misusing that name.

    Oh, and jonathangray? Get over yourself. Do you really think American tit-for-tat retaliation would impress that lot? Have you not read the bit where they justify their actions the very same way you justify your fantasy-response? You’re just another lazy ignorant chickenhawk.

  • colnago80

    Re Raging Bee @ #27

    The ISIL used to call themselves the ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Now they are calling themselves the IS, the Islamic State. Who gives a flying fuck what they call themselves. Shit by any other name smells as bad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/den.wilson d.c.wilson

    If you think having the Duck Dynasty guy on to discuss international politics was ridiculous, wait until Fox puts on Honey Boo-Boo to discuss the latest unemployment figures.

  • http://www.facebook.com/den.wilson d.c.wilson

    colnago80:

    The ISIL used to call themselves the ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. Now they are calling themselves the IS, the Islamic State.

    Actually, they’ve never called themselves any of those names. All of them are just English approximations of what they call themselves in Arabic. None of them are more or less accurate as translations go.

  • Moon Jaguar

    jonathangray: “military might is surely an inappropriate response…”

    How are we going to pay for that? We need a ten year 25% war tax to pay for the military might of the last decade, and ten more years for the NEXT decade. Or we could just borrow the money and blame Obama.

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    @24. theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物) says

    @ StevoR : “Hey, China can have a Sing Dynasty and a Tang dynasty then America can surely have a Duck dynasty yeah?”

    Yeah, you can leave your inherent bigotry out of your jokes.

    Huh? How the fuck is that bigoted? It ain’t.

    “bloody shrapnel …. violence – StevoR

    Always the same narrowminded solution with you, StevoR. At least fucking duck-hunter could think of one alternative to murdering the lot.

    I can think of a lot of other weird and funny alternatives – aliens could abduct the lot of them, the Earth could swallow them up and eat them, a horde of genetically engineered drop bears could attack and eat them, they could be hit by a miracle gas that gives them,a proper brain and renders them all non-Muslim etc .. but those realistically aren’t going to happen.

    You can be silly and suggest there are better ways. Better ways we know aren’t going to happen because ..reality.

    Or you can be a realist and see that reality is what it is and there aren’t. Up to you but the choice you make tells us whether you are truly skeptical and science and fact based or not.

    Or you can give us your alternative non-violent plan – we could use a laugh!

    Phil Robertson is not as much a fucking moron as you are.

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Huh. last line there was yours, theophontes, – and it fits ya too.

    Good for the goose etc ..

    Also holy quote mining and taking out of context bat-fontes!

  • http://theophontes.deviantart.com/art/Tardy-Ak-385824644 theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @StevoR

    Am I finally starting to get through to you?

    Good!

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Or you can give us your alternative non-violent plan – we could use a laugh!

    On second thoughts, really not that much funny with appeasement and surrender.

    With throwing Israel,, the Yazidis, the Bahai, the Sufis, the Christians and everyone else in the region and world under the bus.

    With just giving into terrorism like pathetic weak and gutless fools and turning your back on all the (Western, democratic, progressive) values that made you and us all as happy and lucky and fortunate as we are.

    You think you are a good person theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)?

    Well, I don’t think so.

    I wouldn’t want you at my back in a fight.

    Because I say you* are a coward who will not stand up for values that should be stood up for. You are a person who when its time to fight will instead run away and whimper in a corner soiling yourself and give up all that matters to the bullies instead. Well, Fuck that and fuck you.

    I believe in Western values. Human Rights. Science, Secularism, Liberty, equality fraternity and supporting ones’ friends and allies and country.

    I am willing to die – and live – for what I believe in. I’m fucken totally willing to fight for my principles and for others if they need me to. You? I doubt it. You’ve certainly given us no reason to think so.

    * And those who think like you.

    Are you (are they) a Westerner who believes in human rights and freedom and democracy and women’s rights and gay LBTQI rights and people having life , liberty and the pursuit of happiness – or not?

    Islam, Islam opposes all those things, you realise? Dontchya?

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Oh Theophontes -where’s that alternative plan of yours eh?

    Bowing down to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and hoping he lets you live if you do exactly as he demands no doubt?

  • StevoR : Free West Papua, free Tibet, let the Chagossians return!

    Oh & Theophontes, come debate me on Mano Singhams’ blog on Israel and its right to survive too if you are game. Bet you ain’t!

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2014/09/03/about-that-precision-bombing/#comment-2900894

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    The ISIL used to call themselves the ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria.

    A more reliable source than you says otherwise.

    Oh Theophontes -where’s that alternative plan of yours eh?

    I’ve offered at least two alternative plans, and you never bothered to address them in any way. Once again, you’re acting like the typical ignorant bigoted chickenhawk: pompously pretending you and you alone have any answer (relentless reflexive war), then asking your critics what alternative plans they have, then shutting up and running away when we actually offer one, and pretending you never got an answer.

  • http://Reallyawakeguy.blogspot.com somnus

    You know, I often have the thought that “convert or die” is possibly the most barbaric idea that Christians and Muslims have ever espoused. Why? Because both religions believe in a literal hell of eternal torment for nonbelievers. If you believe either of those religions, and kill someone for not converting, then you believe you are responsible for the eternal suffering of another human being and you’re OK with that! It’s a vile philosophy.

  • freehand

    There are so many criminal and fanatical groups around the world. Why is it our job to stop them all? We are already a trillion dollars in debt for blowing other people’s stuff up for more than ten years. A whole generation of Middle East young people have grown up seeing the US as the occupying Western force (New, improved! Now with Death from the Skies®!)

    .

    I am not a pacifist. One of the more subtle teachings of martial arts (more subtle than “punch in face” anyway) is that one should hesitate to meet the enemy at the time and place and manner of his choosing. The results of our last two Near East wars:

    A trillion dollars in debt.

    Speeding up the privatization of the US government.

    Creating a new generation of Jihadists.

    $4,000 (?) US warriors dead and tens of thousands maimed.

    An even more destabilized Near East.

    100,000 Iraqis dead and millions displaced, maimed, raped, orphaned, widowed, or utterly impoverished.

    Most of the world fears us (hint: fear =! respect).

    .

    A couple of you are worried that we might be seen as weak? How about worrying that we might be seen as getting played like puppets?

  • colnago80

    Re Raging Bee @ #38

    According to the linked article, they originally called themselves the ISIS for Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. They now call themselves the IS, the Islamic State.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

  • jonathangray

    John Pieret:

    Oh, right! Americans should announce we will be a savage as ISIL!

    War is savage. Beheading a couple of confirmed jihadis seems a lot more humane than dumping a load of ordnance from the sky — no ‘collateral damage’.

    Should Obama do the beheadings or would Biden be good enough?

    I doubt they’d have the balls. But no, the king shouldn’t tarnish his dignity by carrying out executions. That’s what executioners are for. Of course a true leader wouldn’t hesitate to kill an enemy on the battlefield.

    Okay, now we know you are a moral moron to go along with the rest!

    So what’s your plan?

    And, of course, the next time we find a pedophile priest, Saint Peter’s is is toast!

    Poor analogy. Pederast priests slaked their depraved lusts on fellow Catholics in defiance of their own Church’s moral code — they weren’t part of a terrorist organisation targeting non-Catholic Americans. If the Holy See declared war on the United States and called on Catholics worldwide to strike at American targets, then military action against the Vatican might arguably be a reasonable response.

    Of course, such an intervention might want to spare St Peter’s Basilica on account of its aesthetic value, but the Kaaba is just a squat empty cube. No great loss. Certainly Mohammedans would be offended, but since when have atheists cared a rap about respecting religious sensibilities? If desecrating a consecrated Host is a proportionate response to the mild manhandling of an individual, surely destroying an empty cube is a proportionate response to a series of gruesome murders. Throw the cracker in the trash.

    (The pederastic warlock William S Burroughs, himself a master of psychological warfare, put it with typical astuteness: “I think there is a residue of fair-minded people in England who will read it as it is intended: as an empirical sociological observation. If an image or symbol is widely venerated in a population segment, the desecration and shattering of that image or symbol will shatter the social structure insofar as that structure is based on the image or symbol. It’s a very old rule: shatter the idols and you shatter the social structure. … The tactic must shock and enrage, preferably to the point of madness. that is what this tactic is all about: desecration, madness.”)

    Are you trying to be a parody of a Right Wing nutter?

    “Sanity is for the weak!”

    Raging Bee:

    Do you really think American tit-for-tat retaliation would impress that lot?

    Whatever else they are, the IS people are warriors. Warriors respect strength — strength of will, not destructive power.

    Moon Jaguar:

    jonathangray: “military might is surely an inappropriate response…”

    How are we going to pay for that? We need a ten year 25% war tax to pay for the military might of the last decade, and ten more years for the NEXT decade. Or we could just borrow the money and blame Obama.

    Read the bit you quoted more carefully.

  • http://theophontes.deviantart.com/art/Tardy-Ak-385824644 theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ StevoR

    You think you are a good person theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)?

    I would like to see the world populated by better people than myself.

    Because I say you* are a coward who will not stand up for values that should be stood up for.

    Oh, I don’t know. I was watching the news back in 1991, when the Kurds were in desperate straights in Northern Iraq (the same area we are discussing). The very next day I volunteered to go there as a disaster relief engineer. I gave up a very good paying job, and put my life at risk, as one of a small group of unarmed civilians in Operation Safe Haven. Was I courageous? No, I was fearful at times. And deeply saddened.

    I did not run away (though we were made, by the army, to evacuate when the death threats became too credible) and I certainly did not “whimper in a corner soiling” myself.

    I believe in Western values.

    I believe in African values. Simunye… there is no Other.

    I am willing to die

    I shan’t stand in your way, StevoR.

    I’ve lived through three major conflicts. There is nothing nice about violence. You are very gung-ho about things that are beyond your own experience.

    Westerner

    African living in China. But yes, I have enjoyed a “Western” education. It is pretty much like a “South African” education, and a “Chinese” education … etc etc.

    Strange how the STEM subjects display such similarities! It is almost as if science is a global, multinational endeavour that does not recognise the boundaries that you constantly try to raise.

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    War is savage.

    That’s no excuse for being stupid, simpleminded, thoughtless, bloodthirsty, shortsighted and incompetent when discussing policy.

    Whatever else they are, the IS people are warriors. Warriors respect strength — strength of will, not destructive power.

    And tit-for-tat killings will not command such respect from them, because they really don’t prove strength of will. You’re just another chickenhawk pretending we can kill all the bad guys and make everyone obey us without cost. We tried that already, and it didn’t work.

  • jonathangray

    Raging Bee:

    That’s no excuse for being stupid, simpleminded, thoughtless, bloodthirsty, shortsighted and incompetent when discussing policy.

    I don’t see how my suggestions are “bloodthirsty” when they would likely result in fewer casualties than a typical intervention involving high explosives or troops.

    And tit-for-tat killings will not command such respect from them, because they really don’t prove strength of will.

    They’re more likely to command respect than the typical Western response of alternating between impotent squeals of “unacceptable … barbaric” and dropping indiscriminate death from the skies.

    What’s your clever, sophisticated, thoughtful, humane, long-sighted and competent policy suggestion?

  • http://theophontes.deviantart.com/art/Tardy-Ak-385824644 theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物)

    @ StevoR

    Oh Theophontes -where’s that alternative plan of yours eh?

    Firstly, an ultra-violent and reactionary mode of response, such as you suggest, would be incredibly foolish. Knee-jerk reactions mean Islamic State ™ are defining your response. IS are a martyr-machine. Their people want to die. Like you, they see violence and death as glorious. There is nothing they would like more than to draw the “West”, particularly the USA into a ground war on their own turf.

    What to do then?

    For a start, you can start to study the history of the Islamo-falangists. The “West” (and particularly USA) have played a major role in creating this monster in the first place. Read up on the Wahhabists, and how Saudi Arabia, with US support, has been allowed to export wahhabism around the world. This has been creating the perfect conditions for radical offshoots like IS. The “West” could start by (non-violently) prosecuting a process of cutting back the system by the roots. Freeze accounts, pursue legal avenues, … shut down support for the Saudi export of extremism.

    Another means is to provide soft alternatives to radicalism. Education would be a prime focal point. Also spend some billions (compared to the trillions spent on violent weapons) to on supporting moderates and secularists. And in particular, support the empowerment of women. That last might do the trick by itself. Particularly against an organisation composed entirely of (male) virgins and rapists.

    These are not quick-fix solutions. There are no quick solutions. Extremists have been inculcating their toxic message for decades. The USA has consciously stood by and watched Saudi Arabia export radical islam for all this time. This has kept the wahhabists in Saudi quiet (within the country at least) as the US peaceably bought up its oil.

    I am all for empowering the Kurds¹, both in terms of self defence capacities and advancing social stability (through enhancing education, administation and the like). The caliphate needs to expand to prove it is YHWH-endorsed. A few serious military setbacks will undermine that narrative. These need not be bloodthirsty confrontations. Actually the less bloodshed the better.

    Islamic State want to become a state. As such they have taken upon themselves a completely different set of responsibilities and obligations. They cannot then do everything “in-house”, like a mafia or terrorist organisation tends to do. They are going to become reliant on more and more external factors. These include large numbers of non-extremists who will be required to essentially run the show. The godfappers will inevitably be confined more and more to barracks (unless they go off on further adventures that overextend themselves) this in itself will reduce their extremism.

    As a state, reliant on agreements, infrastructure, personnel, administrators etc, the IS is highly susceptible (as are the states of the “West”) to all manner of (non bloody) attack. The “West” could hold them up in a constant process of attrition, by undermining their attempts to govern at every turn. This can range from arresting their sponsors and trading partners, through to targeting infrastructure. Their legitimacy as a state is reliant on their ability to deliver. That legitimacy is very easy to undermine.

    Throughout the history of North Africa and the Middle East, there has been a centripetal force at work. Extremists at the periphery attempting to violently overthrow the centre. But, on reaching the centre, they have inevitably been transformed by the responsibilities and advantages into new targets for a new extremist fringe. This process has played itself out over millennia, since long before the rise of Islam. If anything, IS is mild by comparison to the murderousness of historical usurpers of Middle Eastern power.

    Bowing down to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi and hoping he lets you live if you do exactly as he demands no doubt?

    Assassinating Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi might be a better idea than bowing down to him. This is certainly a less bloodthirsty solution than carpet-bombing everyone. Personally, I don’t think this is practicable and it may well be unnecessary. The most moral route is to resolve issues with a minimum of violence. If the “West” pursues a broad and committed long term approach, we will likely find Al-Baghdadi transforming into a new Saud. Anyhow, Al-Baghdadi per se is not the real problem. He is a bigger long term threat to the world if he behaves as a Saud – by exporting a narrative of violence and magical thinking – than if he just tries to cobble together his little caliphate.

    ¹ Roj baş! What could possibly go wrong? (The last time Kurds were given the keys to the armoury, we got the glorious Ayyubid dynasty.)

  • dingojack

    Jon Jon – “If the Holy See declared war on the United States and called on Catholics worldwide to strike at American targets, then military action against the Vatican might arguably be a reasonable response. ”

    What like the Regnans in Excelsis Bull of Pius V?

    Prep the bombers boys, we’re going in!

    Dingo

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    What’s your clever, sophisticated, thoughtful, humane, long-sighted and competent policy suggestion?

    For starters, stop doing things that only replace one threat (Saddam, then al Qaeda in Iraq) with another (ISIL). Stop waging war that only further undermines civilized society, without creating a better,more stable order, making groups like ISIL and the Taliban inevitable; and work with allies and potential allies to a) contain the threat that we can’t actually destroy, and b) address the underlying political culture that gives rise to terrorism, sectarian hatred, and brutal authoritarianism. That’s what worked with a much bigger threat, Communism; and I’m confident it will work with today’s brutal Islamism.

    Any comments? Or are the words too big for you?

  • jonathangray

    Raging Bee:

    For starters, stop doing things that only replace one threat (Saddam, then al Qaeda in Iraq) with another (ISIL). Stop waging war that only further undermines civilized society, without creating a better,more stable order, making groups like ISIL and the Taliban inevitable

    No arguments there. But it’s all a bit late in the day, isn’t it? Incompetent meddling has already wreaked havoc.

    and work with allies and potential allies to a) contain the threat that we can’t actually destroy

    Sounds reasonable, although the US is gaining an unhappy reputation for turning on its allies or leaving them in the lurch. And while containment is a sensible enough goal, it doesn’t answer the question of how to respond to specific outrages. What do you do when one of your citizens is decapitated before a global audience? How do you contain that?

    and b) address the underlying political culture that gives rise to terrorism, sectarian hatred, and brutal authoritarianism.

    What is the underlying political culture that gives rise to terrorism, sectarian hatred, and brutal authoritarianism, and how should we address it?

    That’s what worked with a much bigger threat, Communism; and I’m confident it will work with today’s brutal Islamism.

    There are significant differences. The Communist bloc and the West were engaged in a symmetrical stand-off in which occasional moments of belligerence and brinkmanship were tempered by a general pragmatism and willingness to play by certain shared rules. Two spheres of influence with powerful conventional and nuclear forces, neither of whom wanted all-out conventional or nuclear war. The militant Mohams are fighting an asymmetrical war in which gruesome morale-sapping acts of savagery are legitimate tactics.

    Moreover, a major factor in the Communists’ failure was their all-too-evident inability to deliver the terrestrial paradise they promised. When it came to creative ways of generating prosperity, sclerotic totalitarian state control was manifestly outperformed by democratic capitalism. Result: serious cognitive dissonance. The Mohams don’t promise a terrestrial paradise but a heavenly one.

  • jonathangray

    dingojack:

    What like the Regnans in Excelsis Bull of Pius V?

    Be afraid

  • colnago80

    Re Raging Bee @ #48

    Stop waging war that only further undermines civilized society, without creating a better,more stable order, making groups like ISIL and the Taliban inevitable; and work with allies and potential allies to a) contain the threat that we can’t actually destroy,

    Seems to me that that’s what we are doing in Iraq currently, using our air power to provide close air support to the PeshMerga and Iraqi army ground troops and avoiding strategic bombing campaigns. So far, the strategy seems to be working as the indigenous Iraqi forces are slowly recovering ground lost a couple of months ago to the ISIL. Nothing like close air support to buck up ground forces.

    The big problem now is to avoid the temptation to begin a bombing campaign in Syria, as McCain and the neocons are screaming for. The only ground force opposing the ISIL in Eastern Syria is the regular Syrian Army, backed up by Hizbollah irregulars from Lebanon. Somehow, I don’t think we want to get into bed with Bashar Assad as it is hard to see how he is any better then al Baghdadi.

  • http://motherwell.livejournal.com/ Raging Bee

    No arguments there. But it’s all a bit late in the day, isn’t it? Incompetent meddling has already wreaked havoc.

    And further meddling won’t make anything any better — it’ll only put off the inevitable.

    Sounds reasonable, although the US is gaining an unhappy reputation for turning on its allies or leaving them in the lurch.

    Yes, that’s what our current policies, and narrow mindsets, are leading to. Which is why we have to do something else.

    More later, when I have time.

  • jonathangray