Matt Barber Tries to Logic

I literally laughed out loud at Matt Barber’s latest column, in which he attempts to use that logic thingy he’s heard about but clearly isn’t very good at. It’s like watching someone use a piece of equipment they’ve never seen for the first time without an instruction manual. Stand back, folks, he’s going to logic.

Logic is the cognitive pathway to truth. While to err is human, when we objectively apply logic to the question at hand, we at least endeavor, if done so in good faith, to arrive at the truth of the matter.

Jesus is the spiritual, and the very narrow, pathway to Truth, which is Himself. He invented logic. It’s a tool that helps us to observe, study and to otherwise uncover the many mysteries veiled beneath His awesome natural order.

Truth is universal. It applies to everyone, including to the relativist who might prefer wandering aimless and far removed from logic’s narrow path, the wilderness of spiritual death.

It remains true for all, for instance, that if one leaps from the Sears Tower, one will, absent some intervening salvation, splat below like a ripe tomato. Whether we like it or not, this is the natural order of things.

The question at hand is this: What exactly is “same-sex marriage”?

Let’s do an exercise in logic.

Oh yes, let’s.

In order to determine that which something is, it is sometimes helpful to first explore that which it is not. Hence, we can delineate that which is “gay marriage” by first understanding marriage itself. Jesus defined marriage for us. His definition is reflected in the spiritual, biological and in-every-other-way-self-evident order of His divinely defined design.

Declared Jesus: “‘Haven’t you read,’ he replied, ‘that at the beginning the Creator “made them male and female,” and said, “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh”? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate’” (Matthew 19:4-6).

Rather conspicuously, and as I’ve noted before, Jesus did not say: “At the beginning the Creator made them lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT). For this reason a male, female or shemale will leave his, her or whatchahoozie’s father and mother, father and father or mother and mother and be united to his or her wife – and/or husband – and the two or more will become one flesh. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

Here, and as I’ve likewise explained, is what marriage is: “Marriage is the God-ordained, lifelong, covenantal union between man and wife, designed to provide men, women and children optimal stability and overall well-being. Marriage is that biologically, spiritually and morally centered institution calculated to ensure responsible procreation and perpetuate the human race. Marriage, real marriage, represents the fundamental cornerstone of any healthy society (any society that hopes to survive, at least).

“Here’s what marriage is not:

“Anything else.”

Logic!

POPULAR AT PATHEOS Nonreligious
What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • John Pieret

    He [Jesus] invented logic.

    So, what? Jesus gave a separate Revelation to Aristotle and the boys?

  • Subtract Hominem

    For this reason a male, female or shemale will leave his, her or whatchahoozie’s father and mother, father and father or mother and mother and be united to his or her wife – and/or husband[…]

    Disgusting transphobia is disgusting.

    “Marriage is the God-ordained, lifelong, covenantal union between man and wife, designed to provide men, women and children optimal stability and overall well-being. Marriage is that biologically, spiritually and morally centered institution calculated to ensure responsible procreation and perpetuate the human race.[“]

    Which book of the bible is being cited here? Revelation unto Fred?

  • eric

    Logic is the cognitive pathway to truth.

    Ah, but which logic? Two-value? Three-value? Many-valued?

    Always nice to see them starting out with a blunder. Logics are heuristic tools humans use to understand the world. They are very useful tools that do a lot of intellectual work, but at the end of the day, that’s all they are; human-invented tools.

    “Marriage is the God-ordained, lifelong, covenantal union between man and wife, designed to provide men, women and children optimal stability and overall well-being.

    Nope. Jesus ordained celibacy. He handed out marriage as the booby prize for any of his followers who weren’t moral and self-controlled enough to hack it. Matt 19:10-12. You, Matt, are venerating the back up plan which nobody was supposed to follow, but which Jesus included for the loser followers who couldn’t control their libido.

  • John Pieret

    P1: Jesus defined marriage for us. [Not including SSM!]

    P2: Marriage is the God-ordained, lifelong, covenantal union between man and wife, designed to provide men, women and children optimal stability and overall well-being. [Wait, that’s the same as P1!]

    S1: “Here’s what marriage is not: “Anything else.” [Except for what Jesus supposedly ordained!]

    Is it me, or is that just a tad circular?

  • kantalope

    Sure, you remember all the parables that talked about fallacies dontcha? And who can forget the poetic language of 1st Inference chapters 1-20? The bible is all about logic and certainty, uh-huh.

  • tfkreference

    I’ll take Faulty Premises for 100, Alex.

  • dugglebogey

    I have a bachelor’s degree in Philosophy with a specialization in logic.

    I have no fucking idea what this is. But I think I know what it’s not.

  • wreck

    Matt, meet Betty Bowers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

    Checkmate, godbot!

  • cptdoom

    Jesus defined marriage for us.

    Yes he did define marriage for self-identified Christians. What did that definition not include, by Jesus’ own reputed teachings? Why, divorce, of course. So, Matty, what exactly was the relationship between Gerald Ford and his divorced “wife”? Divorced Ronald Reagan and his second baby mama? Bob Dole and his partner Libby? What about John McCain and the woman for whom he left his wife?

  • U Frood

    When you take as a given that everything in the Bible is literally true, what more logic do you need?

    Of course, you need to decide if a rant against divorce should be interpreted as a definition of marriage.

  • caseloweraz

    Barber: Logic is the cognitive pathway to truth. While to err is human, when we objectively apply logic to the question at hand, we at least endeavor, if done so in good faith, to arrive at the truth of the matter.

    In other words, “Logic is a little bird, twittering in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of fragrant flowers… that smell bad.”

  • Sastra

    Okay, now I know something. I’ve just spent the last hour or so on YouTube watching Rowan Atkinson and Fry & Laurie videos because I started looking for something and … well … you know … got distracted. One leads to another. And I only just shook myself away and came here and read this Matt Barber, the words he has written in his column. And what I know now is this:

    You should all totally do that.

  • caseloweraz

    I got to wondering if Barber’s sort of logic was the same as the logic Captain Queeg used to deduce who stole the strawberries from the Caine’s mess. But then I realized it wasn’t; Queeg was using geometric logic.

    /snark

  • D. C. Sessions

    dugglebogey, how about demonstrating to them what happens when you postulate a contradiction?

    Assume that their Ultimate Authority is, as they insist, totally true in all particulars. Also assume that same-sex marriage is absolutely forbidden. Then show that this, plus one part of their Scripture, contradicts some other part of their Scripture. Therefore SSM is not forbidden.

  • blf

    In order to determine that which something is, it is sometimes helpful to first explore that which it is not. Hence, we can delineate that which is “gay marriage” by first understanding marriage itself.

    I fink this fool is trying to say “marriage” is not-“gay marriage”, or equivalently, that not-“gay marriage” is “marriage”.

    Fail.

    More-correct would be “straight marriage” is not-“gay marriage”.

    He is, rather unsurprisingly, conflating “marriage” with “straight marriage”.

    Eejit.

  • scienceavenger

    Marriage, real marriage, represents the fundamental cornerstone of any healthy society

    I challenge this. It seems to me that the fundamental cornerstone of a healthy society is the citizen, preferably informed. Marriages are no more fundamental than business arrangements or classroom groups. What say you Matt?

  • scienceavenger

    I wonder if Barber has ever heard of the logical principle “garbage in, garbage out”.

  • Sastra

    A logically valid argument can still be wrong if the premises are wrong. Logic isn’t a magic genii.

    Or, in other words, legally speaking nobody gives a crap what the Bible says about marriage or anything else, Matt. Even if you actually were using “logic.”

  • rationalinks

    Christian Logic – God said it (supposedly), I believe it (why…umm…reasons!), that settles it. Logic!

  • Loqi

    You know it’s legit because he used advanced philosophical jargon like “whatchahoozie.”

  • Chiroptera

    I thought logic mostly consisted of applying the names of random logical fallacies to the parts of your opponents arguments that you don’t like? That’s how i logic!

  • shadow

    @11:

    Norman help me.

  • david

    If everything in the bible is true, then there are contradictory statements that are both true (for instance, were birds created from water or from land, or the number of hours JC spent on the cross).

    If contradictory statements are both true, then anything can be proven.

    The bible therefore supports gay marriage.

  • http://artk.typepad.com ArtK

    He’s cute when he stands in daddy’s shoes and tries to pretend that he’s a grownup.

  • Die Anyway

    It seems as if he thinks that Christians own the word ‘marriage’. If it’s “God-ordained” and “Jesus defined” then Hindus, Buddhists, etc. cannot be married. But I haven’t seen him or any others making that argument. It’s always “man-woman, ok; man-man/woman-woman, bad” with no specification about religion. So if marriage can apply to non-Christians, then the Christians don’t own the word and it can apply to SSM perfectly well. That’s my logical view of it.

    It all reminds me of the War-on-Christmas. Christians seem to think they own the month of December. If anybody else has a holiday (Holy Day or otherwise) in December it must be ignored. Don’t dare wish a Jew or a Muslim a happy holiday season or you are grievously insulting Christianity. It’s tantamount to WAR!

    Sheeesh, Christian Privilege (with a capitol P).

  • Glenn E Ross

    The very premise of the argument is flawed. The word “marriage” is used somewhat interchangeably for two different concepts. The first is the religious marriage as defined by a person’s own religion. Each religion sets its own rules surrounding marriage. The second meaning is the secular contract of marriage that sets out certain legal rights and responsibilities. It is the secular definition of marriage that is being changed, not the religious. Legally, bigots are still allowed to define their religious marriage as they choose.

    I think what the issue is, is that their religious definition of marriage will vary even more than now from the secular and their position will become less and less popular in secular society. The christianists are losing their dominant control over societal norms and they are throwing tantrums just as a child does when he realizes the world does not revolve around them.

  • Michael Heath

    Matt Barber writes:

    Logic is the cognitive pathway to truth. While to err is human, when we objectively apply logic to the question at hand, we at least endeavor, if done so in good faith, to arrive at the truth of the matter.

    Jesus is the spiritual, and the very narrow, pathway to Truth, which is Himself. He invented logic.

    [Heath bolded]

    Now that’s funny. Perhaps he’s looking to score with Victoria Jackson.

  • http://drx.typepad.com Dr X

    Did a 12-year-old write this for him?

  • Michael Heath

    Matt Barber writes:

    Jesus did not say: “At the beginning the Creator made them lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT). For this reason a male, female or shemale will leave his, her or whatchahoozie’s father and mother, father and father or mother and mother and be united to his or her wife – and/or husband – and the two or more will become one flesh. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

    [Heath bolded]

    I’ve never possessed the attribute that makes some want to commit violence against others. Yet here my immediate reaction is a desire to punch this guy’s lights out. I can’t recall the last time I reacted like this.

    Hopefully some day I won’t react to this sort Christian-fueled hate as I did just now. Someday I hope my first reaction would be to quote Matthew 25 (RSV):

    34 Then the King [ostensibly Jesus Christ] will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink? 38 And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee? 39 And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’ 46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

    As a leftie, I also didn’t miss Jesus’ idiotic bigotry towards us.

  • Pseudonym

    According to the Apostle Paul, isn’t the purpose of marriage to keep sex addicts from burning in hell? Isn’t marriage just a suboptimal arrangement compared to abstinence?

  • jnorris

    And the Jesus God blessed Solomon and his 700 wives and 300 concubines. When will we see Mr Barber push for the end of divorce because one flesh forever?

  • lorn

    “Jesus is the spiritual, and the very narrow, pathway to Truth, which is Himself. He invented logic.”

    Not – even – wrong.

    Plato was playing that game 420 BCE so Jesus, roughly 6AD would have had to have had a time machine to invent it. I suppose, sticking to GOP dogma, he might have borrowed Obama’s TARDIS.

  • anubisprime

    It is highly unlikely the audience, that this nonsense is intended for, know what logic actually is or indeed how it is used or applied anyway…but they will be mightily impressed that one of their leading lights professes to use ‘Logic’ therefore jeebus!

    Seemingly it is realized in certain lucrative scams, that in order to perpetuate the tale that deludes the rubes, then the rhetoric has to sound very authoritative and learned.

    Donning the natural camouflage of the enemy is a tactic that has evolved quite recently in some circles, especially compared to the longevity of this tacky little myth.

    A clue that the ‘old and trusted’ ways of fishing for a bite does not do it quite as effortlessly as in the past, and tactics have to adapt.

    It is of course fake and completely bogus but the target market is easily duped by counterfeit and spiritual psycho-babble, especially when couched in pseudo gravitas, it tends to encourage them to open up wallets and purses that much quicker for the fleecing…and that is what the scam is all about anyway!

  • Deacon Duncan

    Nice to see that polygamy and polyandry are still marriage according to his definition.

  • http://drx.typepad.com Dr X

    The bible defines marriage as the union between a man, one underage pregnant girl and an angel with a trumpet.

  • zippythepinhead

    “Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad.” -Spock