Lutzer: Marriage Equality = Homeschooling Parents Losing Kids

The Christian right is turning up the fear-mongering rhetoric to utterly ludicrous levels, just making random connections between allowing same-sex marriage and whatever thing they know their constituency fears the most. Pastor Erwin Lutzer, you’re up next:

Saying that the freedom of religion protected in America is a historical anomaly, Lutzer warned that Christians should expect it to be stripped away “by a hostile state” in the near future.

“In America today, you know that the same-sex marriage issue is very, very important,” he said. “Let me tell you that it would not be surprising to me if, in the future, homeschool parents, for example, if they were examined would perhaps fall under the category of what is being known as ‘intolerant personality syndrome.’ And it’s not too far a stretch to believe that their children would be taken from them because they are declared as unfit parents.”

There isn’t even a faint attempt to make a causal connection between cause and effect here, just a profoundly silly juxtaposition of two totally unrelated things. He might as well have claimed that gay marriage will lead to sugar in your gas tank.

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  • Anna Elizabeth

    Now just how does Same-Sex Marriage effect these stoopid Fuckwits’ ability to ruin their children’s lives by mis-educating them at home?

    Is this the non-sequitur of all time?

  • gshelley

    Well, I think the connection is obvious. If SSM becomes legal, then people will think it immoral to teach it is wrong, and from there it is only a short step to considering this child abuse.

    As always, why this only applies with the gays, but not other groups who have allowed racist parents to raise racist children for years is not explained.

  • grumpyoldfart

    The mugs in the pews love that sort of stuff. They plonk huge amounts of cash on the collection plate in order to hear more of it. Pastor Lutzer doesn’t give a fuck what outsiders think of his ridiculous stories. He’s making a fortune and that’s all that counts as far as he is concerned.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    @grumpy #3 – Indeed, which is another reason I say it’s time to tax the churches. Why should I pay to cover their service needs while they spew hideous lies about me and mine?

  • NS Alito

    Ed @ 0

    He might as well have claimed that gay marriage will lead to sugar in your gas tank.

    Look Atheist, I know for a fact that there is no sugar in my gas tank, but it’s a scientifical fact that gay marriage is melting the arctic sea ice!

  • Pierce R. Butler

    Much to my surprise, a search did indeed find one (1) hit for “intolerant personality disorder” (nothing for “~ syndrome”), dating back to 2003.

    … gay marriage will lead to sugar in your gas tank.

    The effects of sugar in gasoline have been highly overrated, but no telling who might start following you around if they can see glitter in your exhaust!

  • John Pieret

    connection between cause and effect

    Oh, that’s easy! “Scary thought” results in “money in collection plate.”

    The neat thing is that he goes from ‘American-style religious freedom is an anomaly in the history of the world’ to ‘American-style religious freedom is going to disappear tomorrow’ without so much as a howdy-doo as to how that is going to come about. Of course the whole religious right noise machine has been insisting that a SCOTUS decision finding that gays have a right to marry under the 14th Amendment has to simultaneously repeal the 1st Amendment (not that they explain how that would work), so maybe he assumed his audience would make the connection themselves.

  • raven

    Saying that the freedom of religion protected in America is a historical anomaly, …

    This is a complete lie.

    1. Most of the ancient countries and empires were tolerant of other religions. The Jews were overrun by the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, and Romans. They did sack the cities, control the territory, and sometimes take captives. What they didn’t do is mess with the religion.

    2. But not all ancients were so tolerant. The ancient Jews genocided the Canaanites, prescribed death by stoning for defectors, and made their god get rid of his wife, the goddess Asherah.

    3. Same thing with the Romans. They tolerated all religions and frequently imported new ones to Rome, i.e. Isis, Asclepius, Mithras, Attis. The did rarely persecute the xians, although this is vastly exaggerated. It wasn’t for being xian, but for not following Roman laws about sacrifice which made them look unpatriotic.

    4. About the most intolerant religion in history is…xianity. They persecuted the Jews from the start and the first anti-Jewish laws were passed soon after they took control of the Roman empire. The Pagans were persecuted until there weren’t many left and the remnants were slaughtered. A lot of early churches were build from destroyed Pagan temples. Then there were the Crusades, the Albigenisan genocide, Reformation wars etc.

    The high point of the American theocracy was the murder of 25 alleged witches, the murder of Quaker and Unitarian heretics, the founding of Rhode Island to get away from the Puritans, and the attacks on…the Baptists.

    5. These days in the USA, since they’ve lost the power of the noose, gun, and stack of firewood, all they can do is hate nonxians, Pagans, Moslems, Atheists, and still,…each other.

  • StevoR

    @8. raven :

    Yes I generally agree with that with just a few small points to note / add :

    “3. Same thing with the Romans.”

    Genghis Khan and the Mongolempire were also famously multi-religious and tolerant – at least in that respect too.

    4. About the most intolerant religion in history is…xianity.

    In fairness, you’d have to admit that Islam certainly gives Xnity a run for its money on that score especially when you watch the world news these days.

    Also I think the treatment and forced conversiosn and genoicdes against the Native Americans may count even more than murder of witches etc .. there 0-even more so if you include the South and central Americans “Indians” too. Not that it makes the murder of “witches”and persecution of Quakers etc.. any better.

  • Michael Heath

    gshelly writes:

    Well, I think the connection is obvious. If SSM becomes legal, then people will think it immoral to teach it is wrong, and from there it is only a short step to considering this child abuse.

    As always, why this only applies with the gays, but not other groups who have allowed racist parents to raise racist children for years is not explained.

    gshelly’s point is well taken when it comes to parents teaching their kids to think and behave in a bigoted manner. But it ignores the most important sub-population of children when discussing this topic. Let’s not forget these parents and authority figures are already abusing LGBT children.

    From the latter perspective the bigots have a valid, though evil, concern additional to the one gshelly raises. Someday, presuming we continue to morally progress, society will deem parents who don’t at least tolerate their children’s gender and sexual identity as abusive parents. They are demonstrably abusive, where even liberals seem to behave as if they’re unaware of this and I think, fail to treat this sort of abuse as importantly as I think it should be.

  • Anna Elizabeth

    Michael Heath makes a good point. I wasn’t home schooled, but I was spoon-fed Southern Baptist “values” by my father: racism, sexism, Apocalyptic thinking, and assorted other that added up to emotional abuse.

    How much longer will it be before parental religious indoctrination *is* regarded as child abuse? How many more kids will grow up with PTSD and a load of rage?

    But, of course, the Xtians will argue that it’s LGBTQA+ people like me that are the real “threat”.

  • D. C. Sessions

    How much longer will it be before parental religious indoctrination *is* regarded as child abuse?

    Good question. How long did it take for slavery to be rejected? How long before the descendants of slaves got anything remotely like equal rights? How long will it be before those descendants of slaves have anything remotely like “secur(ity) in their persons, places, and effects?” [1]

    Now consider that all of the above are public issues. You’re asking about how long the State recognizes what is in large parts of the country obligatory private conformity as intolerable. You may get a hint that there’s been progress in that direction when parents don’t have a legal right to kill their children through medical neglect or even active harm, not to mention “faith healing.”

    [1] A young woman of color that I know still gets stopped by police when jogging through her parents’ neighborhood, and the parents of children playing in the park across from her parents’ home see her and round up their kids while reaching for their cellphones.

  • Pen

    I did homeschool my kid, which gave me the opportunity, amongst other things to teach her about a variety of sexualities and lifestyles. The fool Lutzer is making the same error a lot of people on this site do: assuming that homeschooling = christian fundamentalist. In fact the figures are about 50-50 evangelicals to secular homeschoolers in the US with even more seculars in other countries. Also, I didn’t teach my kid to use ‘gay’, ‘faggot’ etc as an insult (or slut!), but now she’s in school for her secondary education, she sure has learned fast that that’s what people do. Evolution has not been covered so far and to my extreme annoyance, the sex education included nothing about contraception.

  • John Pieret

    assuming that homeschooling = christian fundamentalist

    I don’t think people here assume that. I think that people here are addressing the abuses of homeschooling that (mostly) come from Christian fundamentalist homeschoolers. Just as I don’t think most people here think all cops are racist abusers of minorities, but the ones we wind up talking about are the cops who are.

    I agree Michael Heath has a good point: while I would personally classify teaching children to be bigots based on a religious belief as a form of child abuse, it is one that, under our constitutional scheme, is protected. But physically or emotionally abusing one’s own child based on your religious beliefs is not. It is a distinction that the courts can, and have in the past made, though it can certainly get muddled, such as in the case of “faith healing.”

  • Anna Elizabeth

    Jebus Chritos, it never ends. “Not *all* Xtians”, “not *ALL* homeschoolers”

    I fucking quit. Goodbye.

  • Paul Chapman

    I bet some homeschooling parents will lose their children when the Duggar scandal leads to uncomfortable questions (and less comfortable answers) about religious homeschooling in general. But that has nothing to do with marriage equality.

    I guess both could be boiled down to sexual disenfranchisement, and how the religious right is attempting it, but they really have no more in common than that.

  • anachronistes

    “Intolerant Personality Syndrome”

    Had that once – couldn’t stand it.

  • gshelley

    @Micheal Heath

    I hadn’t thought of that. There was a case recently (Lea Acorn I think) where the child committed suicide, and the parents were generally condemned. I recall some suggestion that the way they treated her was basically abuse, and many people consider the sort of “gay repair therapy (or whatever it is called) to be abusive.

    There were probably people who suggested that she should have been taken away from them, and people who say that about children with parents who take them to the anti gay therapy. It does raise an interesting question of when emotional abuse is enough to warrant children being removed from a household, but this is a matter of society in general advancing, not whether SSM is legal

    I expect that if we tried to count all the children removed from home schooling parents in the 40+ years since Loving V Virginia because the parents taught them the races should not mix, we not only wouldn’t reach double figures, we wouldn’t reach single figures

  • lorn

    Sugar in the gas tank may be apt.

    Sugar doesn’t dissolve in gasoline and so it sits on the bottom of the gas tank doing nothing. It doesn’t stop the car any more than gay marriage damages society or heterosexual marriage.

    I’ve handled sugar in the gas tank. You drop the tank, pour the gasoline through a ‘Baja’ filter funnel which filters out the bulk of the water and all the sugar, you change out the fuel filter just to be sure, wash the tank with water and a touch of detergent, rinse, drain, remove traces of water by rinsing with acetone, pour out and air to remove the acetone fumes, remount the tank, pour the gasoline back in. No big deal.

  • dingojack

    But, but, but – if we allow gay marriage — the sun will run out of hydrogen, become a red giant, swell up and kill all life on Earth!!

    @@ Dingo

  • Al Dente

    dingojack @20

    God has no sense of time. Five billion years is like tomorrow to him.

  • dingojack

    God has no sense of proportion either, he/she/it/them causes entropy-increasing fusion reactions in all stars, whether they have planets (let alone habitable planets), or not.

    Face it, god(s) are evil creatures not worthy of consideration, let alone worship.


  • StevoR

    Also non-existent at least outside a lot of folks minds yeah?

    Goddessses OTOH .. well just ask Charlie Sheen eh? 😉

  • dingojack

    Stevo – don’t tell me Charlie’s gone on yet another bender?

    😉 Dingo

  • caseloweraz

    @Lorn (#19):

    No big deal? It sounds like a big deal to me, and I got used to swapping out alternators in my Toyota — a thing that was a big deal at first. I don’t think I’d ever get to that point with the procedure you describe.