They Caught Him!

You just hit numbers randomly on your keyboard, don’t you?

Its about time! LOL

Heh, that’s funny.

Not too offended.
Just waiting for something to be posted on this site that is positive or particullarly relevent to day to day life or even a bit interesting.

Since all Athiests seem capable of under that label is be negative and condescending to anyone not sharing their belief, I’m glad I’m not one.

Brendon,

I like that review. If you’re looking for places of positivity and (hopefully) relevance, please check out my blog from the link in my name above. I share blogging duties with a Christian.

(Yes, I’m trolling for hits. It’s really depressing to have to do it one poster at a time!)

Interesting. The Ghostbusters movie was the first place I ever remember hearing the word ‘supernatural’. It fits, doesn’t it

BTW, I was born in ’80, so I was quite young when I first saw Ghostbusters.

Brendon Lake,

“Since all Athiests seem capable of under that label is be negative and condescending to anyone not sharing their belief, I’m glad I’m not one.”

With as broad a brush as you paint, I know some houses that could use a fresh coat or two of all-weather exterior latex. Let me know your rates and I’ll check with the owners to see if they’d be interested.

No kings,

Robert

Just waiting for something to be posted on this site that is positive or particullarly relevent to day to day life or even a bit interesting.

terribly sorry dear, why don’t we talk about a 2 thousand year old book and all the dead people in it instead?

You know this site is becoming more and more unfriendly toward anyone who’s not an athiest. Maybe you should just drop the “friendly” label. It’s not so much Hermant, (although you had to realize that picture might offend some people-if you want this to be an atheist only site, just say so) as I’ve noticed some of the people on this site are very quick to ridicule when someone not an atheist points out that something bothers them. You don’t like it when someone “labels” all of you, but more of you seem to be doing the the same thing to others more and more. Why don’t you treat others as you want them to treat you a little more? Too many Christians aren’t doing too good a job of that-now you want to behave like that too?

I’m very compassionate to fellow humans suffering from paranormal delusions. How often do you spend time with people who think they are Napoleon, or think that apples talk to them? It can be tiring, but I try to remain very compassionate and loving towards them. I spend every day of my life with such people – paranormal delusions like ghosts, astrology, magic beans, and virgin births.

Nice. “I’m compassionate but they’re all delusional”. You sound no better than the comment you are responding to. Seriously, I would think you, as an atheist yourself who has probably experienced stereotypes first hand, would know better than to descend to his level. The guy’s comment was ignorant and stupid. You can say stuff to him without insulting EVERYONE from a particular group and sounding like him.

Donna – if i went onto a site, ignored the content (i.e. not ‘relevant’ + ‘interesting’ seems to include politics, current affairs and theological debate) and insulted the majority of the users, i’d expect to get a little comeback.

personally i’ve had some great convos/enjoyed reading other peoples with people of differing beliefs. that doesn’t mean that i wont respond to a facetious comment with one of my own.

as for Hemant, he can speak for himself. which is probably why his site is called the ‘friendly atheist’, and other posters use their own tags.

Donna – if i went onto a site, ignored the content (i.e. not ‘relevant’ + ‘interesting’ seems to include politics, current affairs and theological debate) and insulted the majority of the users, i’d expect to get a little comeback.

I didn’t say not to give him “comeback”. I said to not behave just like him and making sweeping generalizations about EVERYONE not like you.

okay. sorry. I don’t mean to sound bitchy even though I probably do. I have a very diverse set of friends, and we all do get along (most of the time ), so I just hate generalizations of all types. And I guess I feel atheists really should know better, but we are all human.

nah, s’all good, i don’t always manage to type out my thoughts as they’re meant, which i guess everyone shares at one point or other. i also make generalizations then have to carefully extract my foot from my mouth too. *mental slap on wrist*

forget the atheist part, i feel i should know better because i’d like to think of myself as intelligent and rational. you can imagine how dissapointing this is for me nearly every time i re-read my old comments…

Richard-are you an author or an English teacher? Seriously-b/c whether I agree with you or not (usually I do, and I agree with a lot of your last post too-thanks for seeing what I was trying to say but didn’t say very well)-your posts are often so elouquent and well worded! I mean that in a good way-you are really good with words.

I saw nothing offensive about this particular post. It’s too absurdly comedic to be offensive. I might have just as likely seen this in a religious publication like the Wittenburg Door as on an atheist site.

However, I still actually agree with Richard & Donna on the following point:

You know this site is becoming more and more unfriendly toward anyone who’s not an atheist. Maybe you should just drop the “friendly” label.

I’m afraid I have to agree with Donna on this. I’m gradually more often feeling embarrassed by both the postings and the comments here. The insensitivity, cheap shots, stereotyping, intolerance and impulsive hostility are slowly increasing, a little more, a little more, and the rationalizations in their defense are becoming thinner and less convincing.

I didn’t actually find it offensive myself. I found it pretty funny. I just said that I thought there might be others it might offend, that’s all.

Haha! That was one of my favorite movies as a kid!

didn’t notice your comment on the muslim cartoon? or has this been building up? btw, you’re late. i feel you should be fired from your hall monitering duties.

Ash, I don’t comment on everything, offensive, neutral or delightful. Yes this has been building up and I’ve been remarking about it from time to time. I fired myself from playground monitor a few days ago after objecting on another posting to the kind of stuff I described above. But that doesn’t mean I forever gave up expressing any opinions about the processes that go on here. My remarks were to Hemant. He doesn’t need to respond this time; I think we understand and respect each other. I spoke up because another person was expressing what I was beginning to feel.

The cartoon above isn’t really very offensive, but that’s not the point. The point is the drip drip drip of negativity that gets to me. Maybe it’s not really increasing, maybe I’m getting more annoyed by it, or maybe it’s both. There were at least three times today on various postings that people who were apparently Christians commented for the first time and someone instantly jumped down their throats with some smart ass, unwelcoming remarks. I’ve heard enough clever ways to say “fuck off” to last a lifetime. If I want to engage with these people and attempt to start a positive dialogue I have to first clear away the damage done by somebody with a chip on their shoulder who got there first, and often the targeted person doesn’t even come back.

Eventually somebody’s going to say well if you don’t like it go somewhere else. I haven’t found anything close to having the potential that this site has for promoting positive change. I think the potential remains not fully realized in part because of the sort of things I object to.

Richard-are you an author or an English teacher?… your posts are often so elouquent and well worded! I mean that in a good way-you are really good with words.

If you’re trying to butter me up to stay, …it’s working. No, I perform science shows for kids. I take forever to write things because I go over every word carefully. Words are extremely powerful. People can be so careless and destructive with them, spraying the room with them like bullets from a machine gun. They don’t realize how much more powerful their words could be, how much potential they could have for positive change if they just followed a few simple principles: Never, ever lie or pretend, never deliberately insult, and listen with your words more than talk with your words.

I’ve become very attached to several people here, looking forward each day to their insight, their knowledge and their humor. So attached that I miss and worry about one of them who has vanished. If enough of you think I’m still taking it all too seriously or still being the playground monitor then I’ll really consider that and I’ll shut up much more than I have yet. Your words have tremendous power because I take them to heart.

If enough of you think I’m still taking it all too seriously or still being the playground monitor then I’ll really consider that and I’ll shut up much more than I have yet. Your words have tremendous power because I take them to heart.

No, I think you are very human, with a very big compassionate heart who cares very deeply for people. Call me weird, but I can sense that in what you are saying.

My post to Maria disappeared. I swear sometimes that spam box has it out for me.

My post to Maria disappeared. I swear sometimes that spam box has it out for me.

Sorry to hear that! This has happened to me before too………

I don’t think any one person or group is to blame, it’s just something that is happening-it’s a very human thing. But I think it’s also something that can be overcome.

If I didn’t know better, I’d say you were a Humanist, Maria.

If I didn’t know better, I’d say you were a Humanist, Maria.

Heh heh. I’ve gotten this before. Well, I don’t know. Can someone be a humanist and still believe in something? If so than maybe I kind of am. I do have faith in humanity as well as God. I’ve often been asked how I can be as liberal as I am and still maintain faith. Well, I did not have the “typical USA religious upbringing”. I’m currently writing up the “story” of how I was brought up, and how my beliefs have evolved into who I am today, and I’m going to send it to Hemant when I’m done, b/c he has kindly expressed interest in it, for which I’m grateful. If anyone else is interested, please let me know.

As for the offense part, well, I usually tend to let a lot of things slide, b/c I feel that everyone needs to laugh at themselves once in a while. I also try to see validity in as many view points, as I can, and I try really hard to be objective and see where people are coming from. It’s not always easy but I believe it’s the only way people can understand each other. I’m not out to convert anyone, or put anyone down, I’m just trying to understand and get to know people. I know we won’t agree on everything, but I had hoped we could focus on our commonalties. This website has already brought together two groups that were estranged before and has spurred a lot of positive dialouge. As for me, I fully support separation of church and state and I think the non-religous deserve the same rights as everyone else, and have been denied them for too long. I’ll tell you what does offend me, if anyone is interested in hearing it from someone like me: the “anyone who believes in anything is stupid, crazy and delusional” comments do hurt. I haven’t seen an overwhelming number of them on this site, and that’s great to see. I think this site is a wonderous achievement. Being stereotyped hurts (i.e. “oh you’re a believer, you must like people like Jerry Falwell-ick no-Jerry would have chased me around with pitchforks if he’d heard some of my views on stuff! I was not exactly sad when he died.)-I haven’t seen a lot of that here either. And the whole “moderates are just as bad as right wing radicals” hurts too. Again I haven’t seen too much of that here, and I’m grateful for it. I guess I’m what I’m saying is-please remember not everyone who believes in something is crazy, bigoted, and hateful. There are a number of us that are liberal (though not in the bible belt!), and I agree we have been silent for too long. Me personally, I was silent often b/c I just didn’t care enough about stuff to speak up,i.e. I was apathetic. But as I said before, I DO NOT like the direction this country is going in at all. The religious right very much concerns me.

I know there is much cause to be angry at a lot of what many religious leaders have done. I do not deny that. Many of us cringe when we hear about things like the creationism museum and Ken Ham too (I wanted to go to the rally but couldn’t). Many of us would like to kick people like William Donahue and Pat Robertson’s a****. Many of us do believe in evolution. Many of us support separation of church and state. Many of us have no problem with people of differing beliefs or with non-believers, and are more than willing to respect their rights as long as they respect ours (and no I don’t view every scrutinization of faith as an attack. I just ask that it be done with a tone of some civility). Many of us do support things like gay marriage. And many of us take heat from our more conservative counterparts for it. I guess what I’m saying in a nutshell is-please don’t lump us all together under a “broad brush” as Desert Son calls it. I try really hard not to do it to any group. I have seen many people on here go out of their way to not label all believers the same way, and I’m very grateful for that. I know of course not everyone can agree, but I’d like to think all decent people can try and be civil most of the time. If you think I’m silly for believing in something, you of course have your right to your opinion. But please don’t constantly rub my nose in it and try to respect me as a person. That’s how I feel about it. This is not aimed specifically at anyone here, or even at this site, it’s just an in general summary of how I feel about the offense issue. On that note, I hope this hasn’t offended anyone and I’m sorry if it has. I’m a little tipsy right now so it might not come out right. Everyone have a good night. Sorry if I made this too long.

PS If you see any fundies/haters on here, please, send them my way. I have a few things I’d like to say to them. Also if you see any liberal believers on here, send them my way too-it would be nice to talk to them too.

Richard Wade,

The expression, “to wear one’s heart on one’s sleeve” was probably first coined in the late 16th or early 17th century (Shakespeare’s Othello from 1604 is a notable reference, and possibly the first written reference). The phrase itself may refer to several hundred years prior, to the courtly traditions of feudal society in which, during jousting tournaments, knights wore the “colors” (a patch of cloth or ribbon) on their sleeve indicating the favor of the lady whom they represent on the field. The colors were given to the knight by the lady, and the knight jousted in her “honor.” Thus it was an external expression of the knight’s “feeling” of supporting the lady, and gradually became associated with a visible display of emotion or feelings.

An aside: I made a sarcastic comment in response to what I deemed was a generalization (and I deem that I deemed such correctly). Whether appropriate or not, your concerns raise some good points. Chief among these is, how does constructive communication become established in a hostile environment? I, for one, am not too worried, as humans have somehow managed to maintain constructive communication in hostile environments since time immemorial. Nonetheless, such carries risk, but then, life is risk.

However, a less hostile environment can make communication easier, obviously. The trick, and I think this is a very delicate matter, is to ensure that a welcome environment for communication is available without sacrificing the strength of one’s own convictions, nor the ability to defend one’s position. Opening up the “room” to dialogue is good, but it always runs the risk of someone showing up and monopolizing the dialogue, or demonizing the participants, etc. In such case, it behooves the participants (I think) to stand up and give as good as they get, if necessary. It’s a way to say, “I will not let you marginalize me for our difference.” I say this as someone who truly dislikes confrontation, and who has long wished for the establishment of peaceful communication and dialogue on a host of issues.

As a child I was told to ignore bullies and they would go away. As I’ve grown older I’ve learned that sometimes ignoring some individuals does make them go away. Others have to be confronted. It’s sad, but sometimes you have to fight. I don’t necessarily mean fight in the fisticuffs sense, but to make a showing of not being cowed.

I found in Brendan Lake’s comment a disparagement of a broad selection of individuals and felt it highly inaccurate. Positive, after all, is frequently in the eye of the beholder (much the way the humor, or lack thereof in the cartoon, is). His comment, to my mind, is as misguided as my stepping into a blog of religious adherents and declaiming them all for their lack of contributions to the positive experience of people on earth. Neither works toward improving dialogue between disparate groups that desperately need to have some dialogue. My response was a way to say, “Stop and think about what you said and see if that’s really true.” Could I have been more diplomatic? Undoubtedly, and for taking a lower road, I apologize.

I am soon to shut up, but two last thoughts: dialogue is good, as long as all the participants are willing to engage. It’s unfortunate, and made all the more easy in the “relative” anonymity of the internet, but in some cases, individuals invited to dinner are merely going to walk into the room, shit on the rug, and leave (pardon the crude metaphor). In that case, those individuals are not interested in dialogue (and perhaps Brendan Lake is interested in dialogue), and for them to be shouted from the room seems a small price to pay to try and maintain a forum for others willing to talk (and listen).

In the short time I have been here, your posts seem among the most astute, and encompassing. That is a thing to be admired, and it may be that what may seem negative now is, like any cyclical phase in nature, merely a change in air pressure, and that, too, shall pass.

No kings,

Robert

I’ve gotten this before. Well, I don’t know. Can someone be a humanist and still believe in something?

Maria, you maybe interested in learning about this possibility: http://www.hopehumanists.org Others are welcome too. (Sorry, Hemant, I don’t have her email or I’d send the invite privately, but others, including you, Hemant, are welcome).

As Humanists we put our faith, first and most, in our fellow humans. Hope Humanists believe that we (all humans) are responsible for solving our own problems, and for taking care of the planet that sustains us. Spirituality and religious beliefs are either unimportant, or a matter of personal preference – but should not take the place of personal action to right the wrongs in our society and create a better future for our children and their children.

You can read more, join the board to talk with others, ask questions, and decide for yourself. I promise you, you will not be attacked or forced to conform in anyway. The majority of us there are either Humanist Celebrants or working on becoming one, but there are others who aren’t celebrants too and have no plans of becoming one.

I’m currently writing up the “story” of how I was brought up, and how my beliefs have evolved into who I am today, and I’m going to send it to Hemant when I’m done, b/c he has kindly expressed interest in it, for which I’m grateful. If anyone else is interested, please let me know.

I’d love to.

Desert Son,
Thank you for your remarks and for the illumination of the “sleeve” metaphor. I agree with most of what you say; I just have a different angle on it. It is a constantly shifting balance we try to find when talking with a continuous flow of strangers about the contentious subjects we discuss here. Sometimes we find it for a while, sometimes we don’t. Feelings can be strong, intellects can be sharp and so can the words. We get well informed people who will still disagree with us, we get well intentioned but misinformed people who may or may not still disagree even if we’re able to straighten out their errors, we get bullies looking for a target for their avarice, we get the truly mentally disturbed and we get trolls. They all have to be dealt with differently; some engaged, some dismissed and a very few blown out of the water. But never on the very first response. We have to find out about them first. If after two or three attempts to clarify we realize it’s gone as far as it’s going to go, then we should say goodbye and move on.

Some people here seem to have gotten the impression that I am against confrontation. That is not correct. I’m for all sorts of confrontation. But two people on passing ships waving their middle fingers at each other is not a confrontation. A verbal slugfest is a confrontation of sorts but not one worth entering. When I first started posting on blogs I delighted in giving withering barrages of deeply hurtful ridicule. The worst stuff here is mild by comparison. My cruelty was appalling, and finally I was appalled too. So I watched how the skilled masters of argument worked instead of the skilled insult artists, and I learned how to argue.

Your mentioning of the jousting tournaments in the “sleeve” explanation comes to mind, for the ideal of chivalry. “Giving as good as you get” is not the guiding principle, because that always ends up meaning giving as bad as you get, or giving worse. When we have descended to throwing our own feces back at the ape in the zoo, we have already lost any fight worth fighting. (How’s that for a vulgar metaphor?) The important fight is never with the other guy but with your own negativity, immaturity, anger or fear. By chivalry I mean you knock the guy on his ass in the manner of a proper gentleman. Not only are the logical points of your argument stronger and more accurate, your good manners lend credibility to you and those who agree with you. By your conduct you do honor to your opinion, not just defend it.

Dammit, by avarice I should have said viciousness. Sorry.

My only problem is when people are so dogmatic that hate anything or anyone that does not fit that dogma. They attack anything that does not fit that dogma too. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I cannot see how anyone can love themselves when they hate that much. So much anger and hatred is a big turn off, for me at least.

I don’t mind debate or a sense of humour, but I do mind it when people are attacked for their ideas. A person can share ideas without attacking others, IMHO. Hateful and demeaning dogma has no place in that scheme. IMO, there is no contentment with one’s self or life if they filled with hate and anger. A person can talk about God all they want, but they should be aware that it IS their own concept of god. Others may not share that concept, IF they have any concept at all about a god.

Whatever the concept one may hold (supernatural or natural), ultimately, I believe, the person should come first. It doesn’t matter if one’s god is Love and Compassion, or the Source of All Life, or if it is some invisible man sitting in the sky somewhere judging people. What matters most to me, is what is in one’s heart and how they treat other people.

That is just my two cents.

I’ve just skimmed through the comments and I’m rather amazed by what I see.

Everyone who complained about the cartoon noted that they themselves didn’t find it offensive but “others” would.

What does that mean? How do you know how others will view it? I would hate to see even self-censorship out of a fear of offending a hypothetical person.

Philippians 2: 5-11 ESV

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

JL, you neglected to mention the point of this passage when you quoted its final thought. I have emboldened the central thought, and I would suggest that you ponder this idea. I have a challenge for you that will be edifying for you: go into the Old Testament (the book that the writer of this epistle was studying) and do a search on this pairing of humbling oneself, and of being exalted. Notice how many times you find this pairing. With this in mind, I suggest you carefully read the story of King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel chapter 4. It’s a wonderful story–one of my favorites. Once you have done this, and taken away the lesson, then go to the New Testament and search there. Then come back here and tell me what you have learned, and I will listen.

I came across this post by accident and was extremely shocked that people think it is funny to take my Lord and make fun of Him.
But in the end, everyone will know that Jesus is the King of Kings and they won’t make fun of Him then. That was my point. This cartoon would cause riots if it were Mohammad. You think because I believe, that I don’t think freely or have the right to get upset at things like this. Where is your tolerance for the Christians?
I personally do not thrust my beliefs down anyones throat. I say what I believe, if you have questions, I try my very best to answer what is truth. Choices are the end results. Choices, that will determine where you spend eternity. It is your choice not to believe in a Wonderful, Powerful, Sovereign God, but it is my choice to serve Him. I do so humbly and willingly because it is my choice. I have however the privilege of defending my KIng.
Take that anyway you like!

Ahhh, finally, a mainstream Christian visits the Friendly Atheist. It’s almost comforting.

Hi Ash

Admittedly my comment was mainly to get a reaction and it clearly worked! My thinking was, ‘how would I feel if this comment was targeted at me?’

From the time I’ve spent reading posts on this site, I havent often found much I consider would actually encourage meaningfull discussion and debate which I am sure is the reason this site exists. From some of the responses there are those who agree.
I will admit that some Christians havent helped matters by being insensitive at times (the thread concerning Hemant’s friend Clark springs to mind).

To conclude, I’d like to say that everyone living has faith in something, I’d go as far as to say that these things become ‘gods’ whether we are aware of it or not, things like wealth and people whom are important to us or pastimes we enjoy.

I’m staying out of this one. Just try and be nice guys.

Hey, where’s Dan Harlow been lately?

To conclude, I’d like to say that everyone living has faith in something, I’d go as far as to say that these things become ‘gods’ whether we are aware of it or not, things like wealth and people whom are important to us or pastimes we enjoy.

Sure we all have ‘faith’ in something. I have faith the driver coming at me will stay in their lane and not hit my car. I think to call these things ‘gods’ deflates the meaning of the word god. I have faith my car will start . . . .does this make my battery a god, or the spark plus, or is the entire Jeep god?

You think because I believe, that I don’t think freely or have the right to get upset at things like this. Where is your tolerance for the Christians?

Where is our intolerance for Christians? This a Web site where we are free to discuss or laugh at anything we want. Hemant isn’t sending this picture to your e-mail or posting it on church signs. Nobody forced you to come look at this Web site. Some conservative/antigay/anti human rights Web site make me so mad I can’t see straight, so i don’t visit them. I’m not saying I want you to leave (stick around lets talk!), but you also don’t have to force yourself to look at things that make you unhappy.

Also, if you look around the site, we make fun of a variety of religions. Christianity just comes to the front more often because the “leaders” of our country keep bringing it up.

Also, as a follow up, couldn’t the same case be made for any deity so pictured, assuming that omnipotence is a characteristic of a deity (which may not always be the case, for example, in ancient Greek mythology, while the gods were often illustrated as very, very powerful, there did seem to be limits to their power, or at least implied limitations given the context of some of the stories)?

I’d be curious to hear your thoughts. Thanks.

No kings,

Robert

OK I was trying hard to stay out of this one, but would you have the same reaction if it were Hercules, son of Zeus? He was a god/man too with an almost similar story. Or what if it were Horus or Krishna? Both are similar stories too. Or even closer to the story of JC is the Roman god Mirtha. What if it were anyone of those gods, would you still be screaming, “I WILL PROTECT MY KING!” I seriously doubt you would, even if you did know all their stories.

It’s a just a picture meant for a good laugh and means nothing. Get over it. Besides, you don’t even know what JC looked like obviously. IF he ever lived, then he would look more like an Arabian or Egyptian. NOT a white dude with long wavey brown hair and blue eyes. So, you’re getting up in arms about the wrong dude here. This one looks like a white man with long wavey hair and not someone from the Middle East. Definitely not JC if he were a Nazarenen or Galilean, so IF you think it’s JC in the pic, well you definitely have the wrong person. Unless your saviour is a white dude of course, then your saviour is not JC. Either way, you’re barking up the wrong tree with this one.

Mriana,

Thanks for your reply.

“What if it were anyone of those gods, would you still be screaming, “I WILL PROTECT MY KING!” I seriously doubt you would, even if you did know all their stories.”

This part of your post is exactly what I was trying to get at with the latter part of my own post, though I may not have been clear, and I sometimes muddle what I’m trying to say, so if I wasn’t clear, I apologize.

Thanks.

No kings,

Robert