Oh, Right, We Don’t Do Those Things

Well clearly atheism is just wicked. Atheists probably eat babies and stuff too.

I love it. Thanks.

The idea of atheism being accepted and a legitimate option for people makes being religious embarrassing for the religious. That is why the religious must keep vilifying atheism. As long as atheism is vilified, then the religious won’t be embarrassed to be religious.

Jeff, I couldn’t agree more. Well said.

I just came from the DMV getting new car tags. Evidently there is an option in Alabama that you can get a regular tag or a tag that says “In God We Trust” at no extra cost. They asked me which one I wanted and I said the regular. The clerk looked at me and said, “You don’t want “In God We Trust”?” I said, “No, I’m an Atheist.” The whole place got quiet and everyone in the crowded room turned to stare at me. I wish I’d had this cartoon to give them.

I do, actually, have a disregard for animal suffering(with the exception of reptiles, opossums, and, of course, kittens.)

Hehe, well even better would be to ask for “One nation indivisible” or “E pluribus unum” or perhaps “In Love & Reason We Trust”.

More car-appropriate: “In Brakes We Trust”, because who’s gonna help you if those fail!

Amusing, but it’s a strawman argument — a “real” Christian would answer “yes” for several of those (sexual exploitation of children, fear of healthy sexual activities, charlatans, animal suffering, uncritical thinking, subjugation of women), and they would also think that being behind some of those (persecution of gays, creationism) are good things.

The whole place got quiet and everyone in the crowded room turned to stare at me.

Then you told them that your picante sauce was made in New York City!!!

“The whole place got quiet and everyone in the crowded room turned to stare at me.”

You called the Polaner All-Fruit “jelly”, didn’t you!?

that’s funny, Cheryl. and brave of you! Alabama, heh.

i always use the line “if your faith is so weak my existence disturbs it, perhaps you should rethink your belief and why you say you have it.” seriously, let’s call it what it is, like Jeff said. it’s not that we’re evil, it’s that they are doubters and realize how foolish a lot of the stuff they are supposed to say they believe to be true really is. it makes them embarrassed and uncomfortable and feel stupid to be reminded we exist, happily and without fear, even. but they feel the negative emotions, and to mask them they surround themselves in the company of people blissfully happy in uncritical acceptance, or equally silent and closeted when it comes to their doubt. what a horrible life that must be, at times.

i know many closeted gay people, and those who’ve come out as well, and it’s a very familiar thing in this way. people make up the most insane internal narratives to remain in their communities in the closet. the human mind is amazing like that, the lengths it can go to avoid reality. i suppose that’s a positive evolutionary trait, but it does annoy the crap out of me, seeing that behavior enable belief in an age when technology and science should be enough for most people not to need religion. we have television now, it’s time to let go of the stone age campfire tales.

Then you told them that your picante sauce was made in New York City!!!

New York City?!?! Get a rope.

Atheists, just like everyone else, should not be concerned most about what ‘sins’ they commit against their fellow man. Yes, many of the things mentioned in the cartoon are evil (not all) but many…But what people should be concerned with most of all are the sins they commit against a Holy, Righteous and Upright God.

There are many, many, many (many + ?) evil things that have been done in the name of religion. But once again that proves nothing except the depravity of man. Which is what should concern EVERYONE more than anything!

None is righteous, no not one. [Rom. 3:9-12]

Jason

As I understand it, Jason, the primary sin that can be committed against Christianity’s god is to not believe in him.

But no one seems concerned with how HE sins against US, by refusing to give us REASONS to believe in him, and then PUNISHING us for our disbelief. If he’s truly “righteous”, and still refuses to represent himself to validate any belief, then the LEAST that such a “righteous” being should do is UNDERSTAND why we have disbelief, why we reject blind belief in favor of belief supported by evidence. To punish us simply for not being able to convince ourselves without proof (especially when HE supposedly has the power to convince us but DOESN’T), does not sound like “righteous” behavior to me.

In fact, the more descriptions of god that I hear, the more in conflict he seems with a being that could be “all-knowing”, “all-powerful” and “all-loving” all at the same time. I am not rebelling against god, I am not simply in love with disobeying the bible. The concept simply does not make sense to me, it does not fit with reality. What about this attitude makes it a crime worthy of eternal punishment?

Atheists, just like everyone else, should not be concerned most about what ‘sins’ they commit against their fellow man.

I remember that song:

“Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of Heaven, you’ll be justified in the end…”

Hitch, here in SC we DO have the option (for a not unreasonable extra fee) of the “In Reason We Trust” license plate. We’ve had it on our van for 4 years now.

I’m worried about that one time that Jason ate shell-fish and that he continues to wear mixed fibers in his clothes. Those things are stated sins in the inerrant Holy bible as dictated by the Holy, Righteous, and Uptight Upright God. I pray for Jason.

If Jason were to have a vision and then proceed to kill lots of kindergarteners, then that would have been part of God’s plan (communicated by said vision) and only a mere crime against his fellow man. Nothing to get most upset about.

I am the author, I am calm and collected and state my views in a reasonable way.

I AM THE OPPOSITION I AM LOUD AND SILLY.

Clearly I, the author, am more correct and remain calm while you are unreasonable and silly.

I AM SILLY.

________

Funny comic, but people should keep in mind that’s ALL it is, lest you run into the same fallacious crap that AiG pushes through comics.

The cartoon makes a point, but I think it misses a more important point. The atheist asks the man of the cloth “Well what on Earth is it that you so despise about atheists?”
After listening and talking with more theists than I can ever remember, I’m convinced that at the root, they don’t despise us, they fear us. The contempt they express is just the coat their fear wears.

They try to convince themselves that atheists are so depraved, so insane or so stupid that not believing in their god is just one by-product of our deeply flawed nature.

To meet a polite, compassionate, sane and intelligent atheist who simply doesn’t buy into their belief is extremely threatening to them. They have to work so hard to keep believing their favorite story, and here we are, without any of those terrible character disorders or mental disorders, simply being unconvinced. That’s why so few ever risk actually getting to know any of us personally.

One minor nitpick. Though for obvious reasons I could never prove this, I think there is a possibility that many of the “money-grubbing faith-healing charlatans” are in fact atheists, if I may use the term liberally. In more precise terms, they are often private unbelievers with higher than average charisma and intelligence, and lower than average ethics, who have no qualms about using the credulous faith of the true believers to their own financial advantage.

To be sure, atheists do not claim that our lack of faith makes us inherently more ethical, we simply claim that there is no reason to believe that faith in a god brings with it morality, and in fact there is good reason to believe that atheists can be at least as good without it.

Yes, many of the things mentioned in the cartoon are evil (not all) but many…

I’m scared to know what you think in that list is just fine and dandy.

None is righteous, no not one.

Speak for yourself. I am. And I’m certainly better than an angry, jealous, foreskin-obsessed god that is into blood sacrifices, genocide by flood, and apocalypses.

@Jeff P.

I’m worried about that one time that Jason ate shell-fish

I don’t eat sea-food, so you don’t have to worry about this one!!! I just wanted to take away a bit of your anxiety.

Jason

@Edmond:

no one seems concerned with how [God] sins against US, by refusing to give us REASONS to believe in him, and then PUNISHING us for our disbelief…To punish us simply for not being able to convince ourselves without proof (especially when HE supposedly has the power to convince us but DOESN’T), does not sound like “righteous” behavior to me.

People won’t be punished simply for their disbelief. People will be held accountable for their sins. Of course, disbelief is a sin…but unless you’re like ‘slingshot’ I’m sure you would be honest enough to admit your other sins as well.

I don’t understand what “sins” you feel God has committed against us? There are REASONS to believe in God, but these reasons are rejected by our arrogance and our demands that God reveal himself to us on our terms. There are reasons to believe in creation, but instead we would rather write our own version of history. Taking God out of the equation and replacing him with chance.

God does have the power to convince us of his existence. And he does convince some, hence me being on this side of the argument. But it starts with a humble and contrite heart and an acknowledgment that He alone is Holy, Sovereign and God!

I will say this…the cartoon does paint a very accurate picture of how RELIGION has failed the world!!! But my faith is not in religion or any man or woman of the ‘ministry’. The Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. My faith is in Jesus Christ, his life and death on the cross and what was accomplished for me through the Resurrection.

I appreciate the commentary with all of you, and the fact that for the most part, the attacks are not against me as a person.

For His Glory,

jason

Jason,

I’m relieved on the shell-fish sin. Although you should give scaled fish a chance since Jesus Himself provided fish and hung out with common fishermen. If God grants a reprieve on the mixed-fiber sin, then you might be getting fish in heaven (for eternity).

If your mixed fiber sin lands you in hell, then perhaps we can share a beer together. I’m looking forward to getting some lake (of fire)-shore property. The coast-line should be beautiful if you don’t mind all the harpies flying around.

We can go kayaking or wind-surfing. Just don’t fall in because the water is kind-of hot. Although, with a wet-suit on, its not so bad. Its not like you can die or anything. And there is a pub down the street where all the famous artists, authors, playwrights, and scientists hang-out.

@Jeff:

Good point on the fish. I’m not a fan of any kind of fish really. I take Omega-3 (fish oil) pills but that’s about it. I suppose I can give it another try. I went fishing in Alaska a few weeks ago and we did catch and eat some halibut, and I didn’t die…so, I’m making progress I guess.

Thanks for the advise,

jason

Jason,

Glad to be of help. Some fish is more “fishy” tasting than others. You may find some types that you like.

P.S. the bible isn’t all that clear on the particulars of heaven and hell. Perhaps vacations to the other location are permitted. If you visit me in hell, I can take you to a place with delicious goat curry. If I visit you, perhaps you can find a place that serves halibut with mango salsa.

Jason

People won’t be punished simply for their disbelief.

That’s nice of you to say but there are many believers who say otherwise and some religions teach the very opposite. As it is I don’t believe in an afterlife, a punishment or anything to punish me so the point is kind of moot.

I don’t understand what “sins” you feel God has committed against us?

I’m not even sure what a “sin” is but if Genesis does introduce a temptation to two people without the skills to resist it and a terrible punishment that any parent in the modern world would condemn as extreme.

There are REASONS to believe in God

Really? What are they?

these reasons are rejected by our arrogance and our demands that God reveal himself to us on our terms.

Oh I see, it is arrogant to make the assumption that the universe, with millions of galaxies and trillions of stars, wasn’t created for us. It is arrogant to say that we aren’t special and haven’t been placed above other creatures on this planet and that we are merely a part of it. It is arrogant to deny that a book that was written some 1800 years ago by ignorant (by modern standards) people is wiser than the works of our greatest scientists and philosophers.

There are reasons to believe in creation, but instead we would rather write our own version of history. Taking God out of the equation and replacing him with chance.

That isn’t what happens. What happens in the scientific method is that the evidence is examined and hypotheses are formed and tested and refined. That God doesn’t fit the evidence is the fault of the God hypothesis being weak rather than the arrogance of scientists.

God does have the power to convince us of his existence.

Come on then God, convince me.

But it starts with a humble and contrite heart and an acknowledgment that He alone is Holy, Sovereign and God!

So you have to believe in God and then God will convince you. Doesn’t that seem somewhat circular to you?

Oh I see, it is arrogant to make the assumption that the universe, with millions of galaxies and trillions of stars, wasn’t created for us.

Nope, not at all. In fact, Christians shouldn’t believe that this was all created for us either. The Bible is pretty clear on that…

[16] For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
(Colossians 1:16 ESV)

So, if anyone thinks any of this is here for them…I’d say they are arrogant. However, I do believe it is here to point us towards a creator instead of away from one. I just don’t find it logical that everything in our universe simply happened by chance.

Jason

I just don’t find it logical that everything in our universe simply happened by chance.

That is an awfully long way from saying that the Christian god of the Bible did it though. Chance is rather an unhelpful way of explaining things. I tend not to refer to it but instead say that everything in our universe simply happened for naturalistic reasons. That is what all the evidence suggests. There is simply no need to invoke a god.

If you don’t mind me pointing this out you are offering a dichotomy between “chance” and “God” with no other explanations being considered. This is a false dichotomy. If you don’t like chance because it doesn’t fit the evidence then reject it but don’t leap to another explanation that also doesn’t fit the evidence. That just doesn’t make any sense at all.

I understand your point, but I think the issue is instead the difference in what you and I are willing to accept as truth. You look to science to explain our existence and I look to science to explain what I believe science can explain, namely the natural world.

As impartial as we both may attempt to be, (and I’ll be honest I don’t try that hard) the fact is clearly that you do not believe in God, and I do. Therefore, I have no trouble believing that the Bible is a wonderful resource of both truth and history while you find it to be simply another evil in the world.

I don’t think that I am offering a dichotomy, as you suggested. I don’t believe in God simply because I don’t believe in chance…I believe in God, because I think creation points to a creator and I also believe that the creator gave us scripture as proof of his existence, character and expectations for the world.

We don’t know everything there is to know about God, so how can you say with confidence that God or a god doesn’t fit the evidence? It may not fit the evidence that we have discovered, but that doesn’t prove/disprove anything.

I know that this way of thinking may make me old fashioned, unintelligent, superstitious or just plain wrong…but as I stated before, I believe the Bible is God’s revealed truth, so my faith is in his word and the promises therein.

Thank you for the conversation on the subject. I’ll keep reading as I truly appreciate different perspectives on everything!!! I may reject them or disagree, but I still appreciate them nonetheless.

Blessings,

Jason

Jason

I think the issue is instead the difference in what you and I are willing to accept as truth

I agree.

You look to science to explain our existence and I look to science to explain what I believe science can explain, namely the natural world.

I see our existence as natural so I really don’t see a difference.

the fact is clearly that you do not believe in God, and I do.

Yes but I don’t believe because God is not apparent and I am unconvinced by the arguments. God doesn’t become apparent because you are convinced by the arguments which leaves me dumbfounded as to why your would be convinced.

We don’t know everything there is to know about God, so how can you say with confidence that God or a god doesn’t fit the evidence? It may not fit the evidence that we have discovered, but that doesn’t prove/disprove anything.

I don’t know what “god” is. The word is without meaning. We don’t know anything about gods. We cannot point to evidence of gods because gods have aren’t something that explains anything.

I know that this way of thinking may make me old fashioned, unintelligent, superstitious or just plain wrong…but as I stated before, I believe the Bible is God’s revealed truth, so my faith is in his word and the promises therein.

An opinion that you are perfectly entitled to hold and as long as you don’t expect me to believe the same as you then I am more than happy to leave you to your opinion.

Congrats, you’ve managed to offend me, an Atheist, in the first box of that comic.

I am Atheist, and I am circumsized, and I do not consider it “genital mutilation”
It’s very short sighted to call it that.

Larry, perhaps the cartoonist was referencing female circumcision?