The Black Atheists of Atlanta… and Homophobia

Did anyone else know there’s a public access show in Georgia called “Black Atheists of Atlanta”?

Sounds freaking awesome, right?

We always talk about the need for atheists to come out of the closet partly because it makes it easier for others to follow. That’s even more true for minority atheists. So I was excited just hearing the title of the show.

But look at the company it keeps on this network…

It airs on this channel that touts itself as “Atlanta’s Inspirational Network“… which is kind of weird.

Why would atheists be on a religious channel? Why would a religious channel give airtime to a group of atheists?

Well, Mike, Rich, and Sam at the Ask An Atheist podcast watched the first few episodes and they were fans.

Then things got weird.

In their latest podcast, the AAA guys played some clips from the May 23rd, 2011 episode of BAA (got that?) and they’re head-scratchingly absurd.

Here’s the BAA episode in question:

At the 5:53 mark, host KD (on the right) says homosexuality is not a traditional African custom. Rather, it’s a “European Greco-Roman social custom.” Black Son agrees and says that homosexuality is selfish. It’s about “me me me.”

At 8:00, Black Son says he’s against homosexuality from a scientific viewpoint because it violates the “Law of Reproduction” (which doesn’t actually exist),

At 11:40, KD says that homosexuality is purely “sex-based,” implying that love doesn’t play any role in the relationship.

Later on, KD says “homosexuals are hiding behind atheism to justify what they do and it’s false…”

And: “For Africans to embrace European social customs is genocide.” (Genocide?!)

At one point, someone calls in to say that there is, in fact, a biological basis for homosexuality.

The response?

KD: “Those scientists were white, weren’t they?”

Caller: “Why does that matter?”

KD: “It matters to me because I’m black… if you’re not careful, even science can be racist.”

(I’ll admit it’s true that black people have been victims in some experiments, but that’s the fault of individuals scientists, not science as a process.)

I guess we should appreciate that both guys say they wouldn’t discriminate as a result of this and people have a right to do what they want in private. They say they’re not going to hit gay people over the head with a baseball bat, as if that’s proof they’re not intolerant.

You know, I expect this kind of nonsense to come from the mouths of bigots… but atheists? We’re supposed to be better than that!

I’m disappointed more than I’m angry. But I’m pretty fucking angry right now. The AAA guys even mention that one of the other BAA hosts is a lesbian, which makes the commentary in this episode even more astounding.

In any case, kudos to AAA for rightly calling them out on this. They say they tried to contact BAA (probably via their Facebook page), but they haven’t received a response yet.

What have we learned from all this?

Just because you’re an atheist doesn’t automatically mean you’re rational.

And we should not hesitate to call our own people out on their bullshit.

(Thanks to Jenea for the link)

***Update***: The relevant part of the AAA podcast can be seen in the video below, in case you don’t want to flip through the whole episode:



  • http://defendingreason.wordpress.com/ Ben

    I expect this kind of nonsense to come from the mouths of bigots… but atheists?

    These two classifications have never been mutually exclusive. Perhaps you meant “Christians”, or “Muslims”, or …

  • Thorny

    It is absolutely disgusting, racist and homophobic, i knew there were of course some racist/sexist/homophobic atheists but not that there was an official group who believed this. But on the good news i can’t wait to see the debate and if you check out the facebook page there is quite a few people calling them out on it.

  • http://www.zazzle.com/atheist_tees The Godless Monster

    I’m not surprised at all.
    ’nuff said.

    • Jolson Oshiro

      Sadly, neither am I.

  • jarppu

    I think a lot of these homophobic statements from these host come from the fact that they are black instead of the fact that they are atheists.
    This can be seen from the many racial comments they make.

    Unfortunately homophobia is still rampant among the black community and it is leading to a serious problem among them.

  • http://www.laughinginpurgatory.com/tp:// Andrew Hall

    Atheism is only an insurance policy against bigotry. It’s not a magic bullet.

  • http://religiouscomics.net Jeff P

    Yes, atheism is skepticism as applied to religion. It doesn’t guarantee skepticism applied universally.

  • Anonymous

    They better learn some fucking history.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

  • allison

    The sad truth is that being a member of one minority group (atheist) doesn’t mean that we are automatically friendly to other minority groups (in this case, the GLBT community). We have to be careful about the temptation to say “we’re rational, so we’re not discriminating against x like those other people over there.” Because of this, it is absolutely necessary to call our own out on their bigotry when we see it.

  • http://k0ks3nw4i.blogspot.com James

    Some of the worst homophobes I’ve personally argued with are atheists. They oppose gay rights and think that homosexual intercourse between two men is (I quote) “disgusting”. They did mention that they are okay with lesbian sex though because it doesn’t involve the butt.

    Lot of other atheists in my group called them out on their lack of humanity. The homophobes responded by saying, “Being atheists doesn’t mean we have to be humanists, or support aberrant sexual lifestyles.”

    Appalling.

  • Santiago

    Man, all that “African Values/Society” stuff is really kooky. I loved it when the guy on the left asked the obvious question of there being loads of African “cultures”, Africa being a large continent and all, but the question is never really answered.

    It’s very worrying that they believe that the rules or values of modern societies should be based purely on old traditions and customs. These guys may be athiests but it looks like they have their own dogma: that the “Traditional African Ways” have always been perfect (for people of African descent, at least?) and are immune to rational criticism and improvement. Rose tinted glasses, nostalgia for the “Halcyon days”, and blind rejection of everything an old oppressor believes in all spring to mind.

  • http://www.deliberatepixel.com Jen

    Frankly, I’m shocked that anyone is shocked about it. In the past 4+ years I’ve organized skeptics in my city, these attitudes have been so prevalent that they’re the biggest reasons I’ve turned away from organized atheism. And while I’m sure in this particular case there are social factors due to different communities, the secular arguments against homosexuality I’ve heard have been all from white people. This is a problem that goes far, far deeper than subcommunities.

  • Claudia

    I’ve always been confused by atheist homophobia. I know of course that being an atheist does not make you a rationalist, but arguments against homosexuality are so weak once you remove scripture that I’m consistently surprised that anyone could support them.

    What really gets me though is this attempt to use the credibility of science to put a veneer of respectability onto pre-existing homophobia. As a scientist, I find the very idea that my discipline could be used to justify bigotry enraging. It’s also embarrassing that these morons would try to wield science from the “law of reproduction” (I must have missed that one, does that come before or after the laws of thermodynamics?) to justify their bigotry when they are perfectly aware that similar pseudoscientific bullshit was once used to argue that people with their particular pigmentation were inferior.

  • Heidi

    I’m glad people like AAA are trying to educate these guys. Since they get that religion is fake, I have hope that they can learn.

    @James:

    They did mention that they are okay with lesbian sex though because it doesn’t involve the butt.

    Did you ask those asshats how they feel about hetero anal sex and gay blow jobs?

    • Poppet

      Heidi, I don’t even know where to begin to refudiate (heh) your post. Just please go back to school, or probably *to* school in your case, and take a datgum anthropology course.

  • http://honesttogodless.blogspot.com Matt Foss

    I don’t know why anyone would find this shocking. Atheism only applies to the God Question; it doesn’t entail certain views about any other aspect of human existence. Ever heard of Ayn Rand?

  • Cheryl

    Living in the south with a large black population, I’ve not met a single one that was not homophobic. The ones that aren’t are probably in the closet.

    In the 1990′s, there was a very large black muslim (re: Malcom X) group. After 2001, that group has all but disappeared as they ran back to christianity and to avoid association with terrorism. Both of those beliefs are very much homophobic.

    Living over 50 years in the south, African American culture is more like Madonna – it changes constantly. Most I’ve talked to have no idea what real African culture is like; which is so far removed from what they think.

  • Cortex

    I guess James Baldwin wasn’t black enough?

  • Daniel

    Speaking as a black, gay atheist (and a vegan and an anarchist–as if I didn’t already provide people with enough reasons to hate me), I know that I became a better person when I became an atheist. Case in point: I rejected some long-standing anti-Semitic feelings that I came to realize were the result of my former xtian faith. Which is one reason why seeing black atheists with these backward, stupid views is all the more disturbing.

  • http://www.askanatheist.tv Mike Gillis

    (I posted a lengthier comment, but I think it got caught up in a spam filter.)

    Thanks Hemant for giving “Ask an Atheist” a mention and for covering this story.

    One of the chief criticisms we have of religion is that when it acts in morally bankrupt ways or says bigoted things, moderate religious types don’t call it out and challenge it, even when it comes from their specific denomination’s leadership.

    We’d be hypocrites if we couldn’t call out members of the atheist community when they said the sort of bigoted things that Blackson Bau does in the video above.

    As an update, we’ve learned that the excellent early episodes of BAA were not flukes.

    They were simply filmed before Black’s bigoted conspiracy garbage drove off the majority of the original hosts. What remains now are simply the people who agree with his pseudo-scientific homophobia.

    According to Black Nonbelievers of Atlanta (and unrelated and SANE atheist group), Blackson is known as something of a fringe, separatist and bigoted kook in the Atlanta freethought community.

    It’s only a shame that he seems to have the biggest media podium in town.

    Thanks for joining the chorus of voices against his prejudice, Hemant!

    Mike Gillis
    producer, Ask an Atheist

  • Jeff

    I agree that the views expressed by the BAA program are wrong and ignorant but I disagree with the implication that they are intolerant. Tolerate is defined as: “Allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of (something that one does not necessarily like or agree with) without interference.” Acceptance is defined as: “Agreement with or belief in an idea, opinion, or explanation.”

    I must admit that I did not watch the video, only read the the article. But it sounds like the BAA is tolerant, just not accepting. While the attitude expressed towards BAA is intolerant.

  • http://k0ks3nw4i.blogspot.com James

    @Heidi

    Did you ask those asshats how they feel about hetero anal sex and gay blow jobs?

    I did not ask about hetero anal sex, but one of them did volunteer this little gem, “Why would a guy want to blow another guy? That doesn’t even make sense!”

    What, did you expect bigots to actually have anything profound to say about such topics? :P

  • http://www.zazzle.com/atheist_tees The Godless Monster

    @James,
    You wrote:

    “They oppose gay rights and think that homosexual intercourse between two men is (I quote) “disgusting”.

    So which makes them homophobes? I’d say the former and not the latter.
    I’d rather not see or even think about the obese hetero couple next door having sex, but that doesn’t mean I hate them. Too often I read and hear the complaints of those who feel that one must find homosexual acts aesthetically pleasing or enjoyable to watch, discuss or participate in in order to not be labeled a homophobe and that those who find them disgusting are bigots. It’s possible to find homosexual acts distasteful, yet still support gay rights.

  • Douglas Kirk

    While the attitude expressed towards BAA is intolerant.

    Good! We should all always be as intolerant of bigotry as humanly possible.

  • http://hoverFrog.wordpress.com hoverfrog

    At the 5:53 mark, host KD (on the right) says homosexuality is not a traditional African custom. Rather, it’s a “European Greco-Roman social custom.”

    Homosexuality is a “tradition”. Who knew?

    homosexuality is selfish. It’s about “me me me.”

    No, that’s masturbation. Easy to get the two confused.

    he’s against homosexuality from a scientific viewpoint

    That’s right because sex is only about reproduction and anything else is just bad. Right?

    homosexuality is purely “sex-based,” implying that love doesn’t play any role in the relationship.

    By the same token heterosexuality is also purely “sex based”. Awesome!

    “homosexuals are hiding behind atheism to justify what they do and it’s false…”

    I wouldn’t hide behind atheism. It’s a single issue and easy disproven.

  • Josh

    I’m conflicted about this whole issue. On the one hand, a lot of what they are saying makes little to no sense. On the other hand, I argue a lot with theists about what constitutes “atheism” and these guys are a great example of the wide range of beliefs found under that term.
    My basic point here is that we can’t start dogmatizing atheism unless we want to end up religious again (or for the first time). I’m seeing words like “disgusting”, “embarrassing”, “morons”, “asshats”, and I don’t think that it’s fair to insult these guys for their philosophical beliefs, however wrong we might feel they are.

    Of course, I’m not saying do nothing either. I think that incorrect facts should always be corrected, but not incorrect opinions. “Incorrect opinions” may be oxymoronic, actually. If they are rational(which could go either way) and the arguement is strong (in this case it is), name calling is unnecessary and rude. If they aren’t, the world is full of irrational people and these two are a drop in the bucket.

    I just realized, I’ve ignored the fact that supporting homosexuality on a local Atlanta TV station, especially one targeted at black people, would likely lead to a massive drop in ratings. I guess that doesn’t really matter from a philosophical standpoint, but that could be an issue for them.

  • http://k0ks3nw4i.blogspot.com James

    @The Godless Monster

    So which makes them homophobes? I’d say the former and not the latter.

    When they use the latter as a justification for the former, then it’s homophobia.

    My basic point here is that we can’t start dogmatizing atheism unless we want to end up religious again (or for the first time). I’m seeing words like “disgusting”, “embarrassing”, “morons”, “asshats”, and I don’t think that it’s fair to insult these guys for their philosophical beliefs, however wrong we might feel they are.

    How is calling out bigots on their bigotry dogmatic?

  • ATL-Apostate

    Once again, we see further proof that atheism is not a movement.

    It is first and foremost a lack of belief in god(s). Everything else from that point on is up for grabs.

    We always say that on this site, so we shouldn’t be surprised when a group comes out and proves us correct. Isn’t this what we have always said would be the case?

    Seems like I recall reading about some white supremacist group here in the south that also claimed to be atheistic.

    Thanks for posting this. It should be a reminder for all of the rational, humanistic atheists to be more outspoken.

    Sincerely,
    ATL-Apostate
    (a white atheist, living near Atlanta)

  • Peter Mahoney

    Reminds me of leaders like Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, etc. saying “There are no gays in our country”. Sad. Stupid and sad.

  • JD

    I’ve heard that the black community rejects homosexuality by a much greater margin than anyone else, but I’ve not heard of these explanations.

    If homosexuality is genocide, what to they feel about their racial “sisters” having abortions? Do they really think that homosexuality is a choice? Do they think heterosexuality is a choice? Why do they think it’s done to be cool and hip? I don’t understand that idea, who would choose to be socially ostracized as gay if they could chose to be hetero?

  • JD

    Peter, I think the reason Ahmadinejad says there are no gays in Iran is they think they killed them all.

    To continue my previous thought, do they think that there is an expectation that everyone be gay? Only a tenth or less of people are homosexual.

  • Matt H

    While the attitude expressed towards BAA is intolerant.

    Are you serious? I guess that means many of us are intolerant of witch-burners, the KKK, Islamic extremists, Christians that burn abortion clinics. Man, we are real assholes. Why can’t we just tolerate psychos.

  • Justin P.

    Do these guys actually take themselves seriously? I’m upset that people will watch this show and think that these guys actually represent Atheism.

  • Erp

    (I’ll admit it’s true that black people have been victims in some experiments, but that’s the fault of individuals scientists, not science as a process.)

    Not science as a process but not just individual scientists. I would say the society allowed/allows treatment of those perceived as outside as less than insiders. This includes most minorities, the poor, prisoners, non-citizens (inside or outside the country).

  • http://religionsetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Joshua Zelinsky

    Mike,

    Thanks very much for clarifying that. Good to know that this guy is doing his own thing.

  • Claudia

    I commented without watching the whole video. Now that I have, I realize that homophobia is just one part in their multifaceted idiocy. From what I can gather they believe:

    - Gay black atheists only become atheists so that they can avoid the condemnation from the black church.
    - Homosexuality is a European custom.
    - European documents show that “white people” (because, of course, we Europeans only have one culture) are open about homosexuality being a custom. Also a custom? Bestiality (yes, really).
    - European culture and African culture (one of, I’m guessing, a total of 4 or 5 cultures in the world) are completely incompatible, so that no European custom can be a part of African customs.
    - African traditional culture is communal and based on the rearing and protection of children, while European culture is individualist and based on personal satisfaction.
    - The only reasons Egypt attacked Ethiopia was as a favor to that country to warn them that they had to get their act together before the Europeans came. Because (see above) Africa was essentially Pandora from Avatar before the Europeans came.

    I am desperately happy to hear that black atheists in Atlanta have a sane alternative to turn to. Hemant, if you’re reading this could you link to this group, so local atheists understand that there is somewhere to go?

  • Blacksheep

    Wait – I’ve been told countless times on this site that belief in God, especially the Christian God, is anything from infantile to pure evil.
    Also that any thinking, rational, “scientific” person does not believe in God, and that people who accept that there is no God are the sane ones.

    When there is evil in Christianity, you say it stems from Christianity.

    So now that there is homophobia coming from atheists, you are saying that it has nothing to do with their atheism, but something else.
    What about free thought? Are they allowed, as free thinkers, to have opinions? Or is it not free thinking that you advocate but rather adherence to a particular set of rules?

    The real truth is that there is a universal right and wrong, and hatred is wrong. That’s what you are reacting to – something that you know is intrinsically wrong.

    Not a chemical response or a social convention, because God knows where that could lead us. Just plain wrong.

  • http://selfra.blogspot.com dantresomi

    nooooooo!

    but alas

    1. no one group has a monopoly on homophobia so stopped spreading the lie that homophobia is a big problem JUST in the black community. ALL COMMUNITIES have problems with homophobia.

    2. I agree with some of the comments, even atheists can be racist, sexist, and homophobic and elitist. While it is true we SHOULD be better than that, but we are humans and are affected by our environment just like everyone else.

    3. i am glad we are talking about this

  • Sackbut

    @Matt H:

    I guess that means many of us are intolerant of witch-burners, the KKK, Islamic extremists, Christians that burn abortion clinics.

    The point the previous post was making is one of definition. Yes, we are intolerant of the things you mention, as any decent human being should be. We should not be “tolerant but unaccepting” toward those things. If someone chooses to label me “intolerant” because I don’t tolerate the KKK, so be it. We don’t have to match everybody’s definition.

    The point of “tolerance” versus “acceptance” is “I think (religion, gay sex, pot smoking, whatever) is wrong or bad, but I think it’s a personal choice, and I would promote a person’s right to engage in such behavior” versus “I think (religion, gay sex, pot smoking, whatever) is perfectly fine”.

    One of the things that really irks me about the Religious Right is the constant confusion between the two, the constant push to make “things I don’t like” into “illegal things”. They think that leaving them legal means one is accepting them; it’s not, it’s merely tolerating them. I think it takes a lot of character to push for the rights of people to do things of which you disapprove.

  • Wes

    Im taking a different approach to this one. The viewpoints on homosexuality has been stated, so I’ll change it up:

    As a black man, I was struck more by the initial points made during their “discussion.”

    I’ve always been so completely annoyed, and almost embarrassed by other blacks (usually men) that harp on this notion of a “black nation,” so on and so forth. I dont deny that we have had a rather difficult time in our great nations history, I dont believe anyone (that matters) does. However, while I admit being “token” does get rather old (it’s easy for non-tokens to say it doesn’t matter), this almost separatist like mentality isnt justifiable coming out of the mouths of anyone under 50 in my opinion. Ironically, they (the sr’s) are usually the ones that dont even talk about race in my experiences.

    I dont, and probably never will, see how making your race the cornerstone of any issue, while simoulteniously insinuating how “smart,” and “rational” you are by having the word atheist in the title. That is NOT automatic, those traits are DEMONSTRATED and EARNED…Doesnt seem like a very smart or rational means to an end to me, this is 2011. This is not the 60′s and you (all who do this) are NOT Malcom X. At one point in time, there may very well have been a need for representation from both the non-violent, and armed viewpoints. However, we live in a world today that requires a much different tactic. Gone are the days where the victim card actually carried weight.
    Having the confidence enough in your own opinion, and in your level of intellect enough to not only spread your beliefs, but to do so on television comes with a certain level of responsibility. The type of personality that believes it’s ok to speak for an entire category of people “black or African” atheists, is a trait which, in my opinion, disqualifies you from ever having your opinion taken seriously. They speak so absolutely about a culture that includes millions, and within said cultures are dozens (hundreds?) of subcultres, on an issue that with a minimal amount of critical thought would say that you couldnt possibly speak for us all.

    I’ve attempted to watch them before, and while I was pretty excited to see other black atheists (ESPECIALLY with their own show) I quickly realized that their show wasnt for me. I dont mean to sound arrogant or disrespectful, but from what I saw on the one episode I watched (and this one), none of them seem educated enough about much of anything, for them to be taken seriously anyway. They just repeat the same old soundbites, and arguments that you can read on any atheist blog from years back. Nothing truly new, other than their skin color.

    Until they realize that their skin color or heritage isnt enough to base an entire show on, that atheism isnt about “being black in Atlanta,” if they had anything of value to add, “black” wouldnt even be necessary in the title of their show. There is more to this than tired arguments, and using my race as a tool to gain viewers. These men demonstrate that they arent as disconnected from the religious community as they think. The fact that being black seems to be more important to them than the atheist part, is pretty good reflection of how black churches put more weight in that than they do in their scriptures.

    What’s the saying? You can take them out the religion, but you cant take the religion out of them.

    So in saying all of this. Am I surprised at their viewpoints on homosexuality? Nope…They seem to have a lot of the black church mentality left in them.

  • Jeff

    I’m not trying to defend the BAA, witch-hunts, the KKK, etc. My point is that tolerance immplies unacceptance. I think most people here are in agreement with GLBT. Hence, you are not tolerant (nor intolerant) of GLBT, you are accepting. The BAA is tolerant, because they aret unaccepting. It might seem like a minor semantic detail but it has practical implications. When we speak of toleration as though it implies acceptance it confuses the whole issue. Think of tolerance as “agree to disagree but leave each other alone”, while acceptance is “agreement”. Keep in mind the context of this discussion, ideas and speech. In light of this, we are tolerant of the KKK, unless you’re hunting them down for their ideas and speech. When we leave the context of ideas and speech, and discuss actions, tolerance and acceptance are the wrong words to use. Natural laws govern us, and regardless of our tolerance or acceptance nobody has the right to infringe on the rights of another. We are a nation of laws, not men.

  • Blacksheep

    One of the things that really irks me about the Religious Right is the constant confusion between the two, the constant push to make “things I don’t like” into “illegal things”.

    EVERY group tries to do that. In fact i wonder which group (right or left) has imposed the most laws based purely on “things they don’t like?”

    (I actually don’t know the answer, so I’m not asking a leading question.)

    As a libertarian, what irks me about the non-religous left is that I fear even more laws that affect my personal freedom than I do from the right.

  • walkamungus

    @Blacksheep

    The real truth is that there is a universal right and wrong, and hatred is wrong. That’s what you are reacting to – something that you know is intrinsically wrong.

    You nailed it right there.

  • StaticMotion

    The real truth is that there is a universal right and wrong, and hatred is wrong. That’s what you are reacting to – something that you know is intrinsically wrong.

    Bullshit. Anger is an emotion. Strong anger can turn into hate. Hate stays just an emotion as long as it is not acted upon. Are you suggesting that emotions are wrong?
    Oh, and can you please define “universal right” for me? I’m really curious.

    As a libertarian,

    Of the “taxes are theft” variety?

    • Poppet

      Are you suggesting that homophobia is not wrong? It is just an emotion, after all.

    • Poppet

      By the way, please calm down, breathe, and come back when you can discuss like a grown-up without cursing someone out.

  • http://TempleoftheFuture.net James Croft

    This is deplorable and extremely concerning – I would not have expected a high profile freethinking show to demonstrate such ignorance and intolerance. At the same time we must be wary ourselves of making overgeneralizations regarding African Americans and “African American culture”. It would be a shame if in combatting sexual prejudice we fell foul of racial stereotyping.

  • Nija

    You know, I expect this kind of nonsense to come from the mouths of bigots… but atheists? We’re supposed to be better than that!

    Atheists are a group of people. There is nothing to prevent an atheist from being a bigot. We’re not ‘supposed’ to be better than that. The atheist movements promote being better than that, but being an atheist doesn’t require it. This isn’t a dictionary argument; He’s making an argument; however flawed it may be, to attempt to ‘rationally’ support his position. That’s what ‘being an atheist’ is generally ‘about’ (from what I gather reading all the blog posts I do).

    Anyone who’s homophobic is going to create a rationalization to support it based on how they view the world. If someone no longer has religion to base it on, they will come up with another ‘support’ for their position.

    I’ve never been a fan of sweeping categorizations; about any group.

    They seem to have found something that appeared to support their bigotry and didn’t question it. That’s some form of cognitive bias (I think) but I don’t recall the name of at the moment.

    TL;DR : We’re not supposed to be better than that, we TRY to be better than that.

  • CayVoo

    These guys may be atheists, but they are not skeptics. My favorite quote is at 8:03:

    “When you deal with science, you gotta deal with it all the way.”

  • http://www.bluefrogdesignstudios.com/thebluefrogsays/ The Big Blue Frog

    Atheists come in all shapes, sizes and prejudices. So do bigots. The fact that there is overlap between atheists and homophobes is sad, but not unexpected. After all, we keep saying that atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. There’s nothing in that statement that precludes irrational bias in other areas of a person’s life. I’ve known plenty of homophobic atheists, racist atheists and more than a few sexist atheists.

  • http://denkeensechtna.blogspot.com Deen

    (I’ll admit it’s true that black people have been victims in some experiments, but that’s the fault of individuals scientists, not science as a process.)

    My guess would be that they were more referring to the (pseudo)science that supposedly “proves” that blacks are inherently inferior to whites.

  • Blacksheep

    Bullshit. Anger is an emotion. Strong anger can turn into hate. Hate stays just an emotion as long as it is not acted upon. Are you suggesting that emotions are wrong?
    Oh, and can you please define “universal right” for me? I’m really curious.

    I said that hatred is wrong, not emotion. for example love is an emotion, and love is good.
    You can creatively construct a sentence that you think leads somewhere, add curses, whatever, but why over complicate what I said?

    You know exactly what I mean by universal right, no need to explain it further, especially to someone who is being pissy.

    Of the “taxes are theft” variety?

    No, I ‘render unto Caeser” but the way they are sometimes spent i would certainly consider theft. Such as the bank bailout.

  • Blacksheep

    I would not have expected a high profile freethinking show to demonstrate such ignorance and intolerance.

    So it’s not free thinking that you like, it’s specific thinking that you approve of.

    Either you embrace actual free thinking or admit that you believe that there is a right and wrong way to think about things.

  • GentleGiant

    Blacksheep wrote:

    Wait – I’ve been told countless times on this site that belief in God, especially the Christian God, is anything from infantile to pure evil.
    Also that any thinking, rational, “scientific” person does not believe in God, and that people who accept that there is no God are the sane ones.

    When there is evil in Christianity, you say it stems from Christianity.

    So now that there is homophobia coming from atheists, you are saying that it has nothing to do with their atheism, but something else.
    What about free thought? Are they allowed, as free thinkers, to have opinions? Or is it not free thinking that you advocate but rather adherence to a particular set of rules?

    First, I don’t think anyone here thinks the Christian God is any different from any of the other supposed gods out there, so quit the Christian persecution complex.

    Second, as opposed to e.g. Christianity, atheism doesn’t have any unifying descriptors or dogma besides a non-belief in gods. Thus any bigotry is purely based on the individual. A Christian might be a bigot (homophobic in this instance) based on personal experience or other reasons, the difference is that he/she also has much of this bigotry backed up by his religious dogma and holy book.
    So yes, Christian bigotry can indeed stem from the religion and even if it doesn’t, it’s backed up by it.
    The same cannot be said of atheism, since there isn’t anything concerning atheism that touches on the subject of bigotry (like homophobia etc.).
    You’re trying the age old trick of likening atheism to a (your) religion. Sorry, no go.
    Any bigotry on the part of an atheist fall squarely on their shoulders, not atheism.

  • http://denkeensechtna.blogspot.com Deen

    So it’s not free thinking that you like, it’s specific thinking that you approve of.

    Ignorance is not free thinking. Using fallacious arguments is not free thinking.

    Either you embrace actual free thinking or admit that you believe that there is a right and wrong way to think about things.

    Free thinking is not “anything goes” thinking. And yes, some ways to think about things are just plain wrong.

  • GentleGiant

    Blacksheep wrote:

    I said that hatred is wrong, not emotion. for example love is an emotion, and love is good.

    Beeeeep, wrong, thank you for playing.
    Neither hatred nor love is either wrong or good, they just are.
    Love isn’t inherently good, love can lead to obsession, heart break, envy, hatred etc.
    They are just emotions, how you ACT on those emotions can be wrong or good, however.

  • Blacksheep

    You’re trying the age old trick of likening atheism to a (your) religion. Sorry, no go.
    Any bigotry on the part of an atheist fall squarely on their shoulders, not atheism.

    On the contrary – I have always kept it seperate. My observation here, and what I tried to get across, is that atheists posting here are the ones tying atheism to bigotry by showing surprise that freethinking atheists could be bigots.

  • Blacksheep

    Beeeeep, wrong, thank you for playing.
    Neither hatred nor love is either wrong or good, they just are.
    Love isn’t inherently good, love can lead to obsession, heart break, envy, hatred etc.
    They are just emotions, how you ACT on those emotions can be wrong or good, however.

    Word games aside, my point was about something being intrinsically right or wrong – not about the sequence of root emotion vs emotional response. If the response is bad, it’s bad.
    And we both know what is meant by “hate is bad, love is good.”

  • Blacksheep

    Free thinking is not “anything goes” thinking.

    Totally confused.

    And yes, some ways to think about things are just plain wrong.

    Totally agree.

  • Matt H

    @Jeff:

    Sure, I understand the distinction you make between tolerance and acceptance. It is probably correct to state that many Christians “tolerate” homosexuality, but don’t accept it. Just like BAA.

    So what? They’re still going to vote down proposals to make gay marriage legal. They’ll still publicly refer to them as “disgusting”. They’ll still spread misinformation and promote bad “science”.

    You know what? I can tolerate that. I don’t want to remove their right to be ignorant assholes. I just don’t “accept” their view though, and I will call them out, just like most of the people here. We aren’t going to beat them over the head with a bat. :P

  • Matt H

    Word games aside, my point was about something being intrinsically right or wrong – not about the sequence of root emotion vs emotional response. If the response is bad, it’s bad.
    And we both know what is meant by “hate is bad, love is good.”

    So how do you define “good” and “bad”?

  • earnest

    “It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious.”

    I don’t think I will ever be able to overcome my bigotry towards the tedious people.

  • ACN
    Free thinking is not “anything goes” thinking.

    Totally confused.

    Google is your friend.

    Freethought

    is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or dogma. The cognitive application of freethought is known as ‘freethinking’, and practitioners of freethought are known as ‘freethinkers’.

  • Blacksheep

    So how do you define “good” and “bad”?

    Different beleif systems have different viewpoints on the specifics of what is good or bad, so it’s a waste of time to dissect those here. As a Christian, I believe that Christ’s teachings on good and bad are a good definition.
    But my evidence that there is a universal good and bad comes from what I believe is a shared, deep, conviction on the part of humanity that certain things are simply right or wrong, and I do not believe that those feelings exist as evolutionary adaptations to what is good for society, or chemical reactions that trigger feelings or responses.

    I believe, for example, that things like murder, theft, and hatred are planted in men’s hearts as being bad, and one can’t change that by changing one’s religion or belief system.

    CS Lewis uses the “cutting in the queue” example where he simply points out that everyone universally gets annoyed if they have been standing in a line and soemone cuts in front of them. Not because they are one space further back, not because they will now be a few minutes later, but because it’s wrong.

  • Blacksheep

    ACN,

    Google is your friend.

    Google is my friend, thanks.

  • Schmeer

    Blacksheep,
    You are missing the point of the questions that are posed to you. “We both know what is meant” so spectacularly misses the point. The people asking you these questions will demonstrate that you mean something completely different when you use words like right and wrong.

    You’re showing a lot of very sloppy thinking here and making assumptions that are incorrect. Slow down and answer those questions sincerely so someone can walk you through the process and show you where you are making mistakes.

  • Schmeer

    Blacksheep,

    But my evidence that there is a universal good and bad comes from what I believe

    What you believe is not evidence. It is your opinion.

    I believe, for example, that things like murder, theft, and hatred are planted in men’s hearts as being bad, and one can’t change that by changing one’s religion or belief system.

    Where is the evidence? Not everyone agrees with this opinion, so you need to provide support for it.

    And CS Lewis was a terrible philosopher. He’s not going to be a very convincing source.

  • Blacksheep

    You’re showing a lot of very sloppy thinking here and making assumptions that are incorrect.

    I’m trying to make quick points to smart people, I disagree.

    Slow down and answer those questions sincerely so someone can walk you through the process and show you where you are making mistakes.

    Wow – that may be the most arrogant thing I’ve ever heard!

  • Blacksheep

    Where is the evidence? Not everyone agrees with this opinion, so you need to provide support for it.

    I never said everyone agreed! I was asked what my evidence is. I stated my evidence. (In short hand, which normally is OK for most on here to get the point).

    And CS Lewis was a terrible philosopher. He’s not going to be a very convincing source.

    I wasn’t grading him as a philosopher, however I have no doubt that I like him much more than you do.

  • http://estevancarlos.com estevan

    Homosexuality has existed in certain African traditions.

  • Schmeer

    Blacksheep,
    I didn’t say that you said everyone agreed. I said everyone does not agree with you, implying that you cannot take it for granted that stating your opinion is providing evidence. You have no evidence. You’ve been asked for your evidence, but you provided your opinion.

    While you are trying to make quick points you are being sloppy. You do yourself no favors and do not make the points you think you are making.

    If you think that I’m arrogant telling you that you made mistakes and others are trying to help you recognize those mistakes then you must not have been paying attention in church. The most arrogant thing that I’ve ever heard is a man with a high school education telling a room full of people that he knows what the creator of the universe thinks and it just so happens to be what that holy man thinks too.

    You might like CS Lewis but his writing is juvenile and he wasn’t very bright. The trilemma is one of the stupidest attempts at apologetics I’ve ever seen. He doesn’t even consider the possibility that Jesus never existed.

  • Angel

    @ Jen

    One of the biggest reasons I don’t participate in my local atheist group is because of the homophobic and intolerant views held/expressed by one of the men in particular who holds rotating positions of prominence.

    And you are absolutely right, the attitudes are not limited to specific sections of atheists. The only connecting factor for me seems to be the same excuse used. “It’s called free speech.” Oh the irony.

  • StaticMotion

    But my evidence that there is a universal good and bad comes from what I believe is a shared, deep, conviction on the part of humanity that certain things are simply right or wrong, and I do not believe that those feelings exist as evolutionary adaptations to what is good for society, or chemical reactions that trigger feelings or responses.

    If I understand you correctly, you believe objective morality exists? I doubt that you have convincing evidence for that.
    If there were a simple way to demonstrate objective morality, a lot of things would be rendered very easy to decide (from public policies to whatnot).
    When presented with ethical dilemmas humans don’t universally come to the same conclusions. Iirc, the decisions itself are often made very quick (without conscious reasoning) and the reasoning is made afterwards to justify that first hunch. If universal right or wrong existed I’d expect that we’d all have the same first hunches. It seems that this isn’t the case.

    CS Lewis uses the “cutting in the queue” example where he simply points out that everyone universally gets annoyed if they have been standing in a line and soemone cuts in front of them. Not because they are one space further back, not because they will now be a few minutes later, but because it’s wrong.

    While everyone might get annoyed at first because cutting in line disregards the usual social convention of queuing, there might very well be a good reason for the cutting, like an emergency. After having been made aware of that reason people might change their first assessment and think the cutting was justified.
    Furthermore, someone might not even be aware of the concept/custom of queuing and could therefore not even be aware of doing something wrong.

    I thought about apologizing for coming off “pissy”. But I still think that I was justified in originally using “bullshit” to classify your absolute statement that a certain emotion is wrong.
    As you have clarified that you haven’t meant emotions themselves (it seems “hatred” entails behaviour/action to you?) I’ll apologize for misunderstanding you.
    Just to be sure, do you think an emotion like anger or hate or envy in itself is wrong?

    I still would like to see a definition of “universal right/wrong” though. I haven’t yet come across a convincing one. I am genuinely curious.

    No, I ‘render unto Caeser” but the way they are sometimes spent i would certainly consider theft. Such as the bank bailout.

    OK, I can understand your sentiment there, even if I’d use different terms instead of “theft”. Thanks for your clarification – it’s just that I’ve seen too many libertarians who think all taxes are theft. (I wonder how they think to ensure a stable society and law enforcement etc. without any finances available for government. But let’s not derail the thread into that direction.)

    The fact that there is overlap between atheists and homophobes is sad, but not unexpected. After all, we keep saying that atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god or gods. There’s nothing in that statement that precludes irrational bias in other areas of a person’s life.

    Sadly, yes. I was astounded to learn one of my better atheist friends thinks “The Secret” has merit. I know I’ve got some irrational ideas/habits, but I try to acknowledge them as such.

    • Poppet

      My child, you pretty much just confirmed what a lot of people already know and say about atheists. Atheists have no morals. And whether it is true or not, you certainly offered a lot of ammo for people who say that without God there is no morality.

      I’m thinking that actually you don’t know a whole lot of atheists in person. I do, and the majority of them do in fact agree that there is such a thing as universal morality. This is ingrained into us as human beings, and has nothing to do with ghosts in the sky. It kinda sounds like you have ventured your first foray into atheism, you are still possibly reeling from being struck down and abused by whatever religion you were raised with, and you are trying your hardest to be rebellious. Please grow the hell up.

  • Blacksheep

    Schmeer,

    if looking into your own heart and discerning how you feel and also looking outward at the experiences of others is not evidence for you, I’m sorry for that. It is for me. My job is not to fulfill your request, but to offer honest dialogue.

    I’m afraid that what you require as evidence does not exist. Since that’s the case, I understand why you don’t believe.

    What you think is sloppy is plain-spoken and clear to me.

    I have only heard preachers with graduate degrees preach, but that’s NYC. As for high school education, some of the smartest and most successful people I know never attended college. i don’t believe that college makes someone intelligent, thoughtful, or able to discern right from wrong.

    On CS Lewis, we simply disagree. (I also have learned that people on FA don’t like him at all) I know you like to make absolute, definitive comments like “he wasn’t very bright…” and that’s your opinion. Charming how you state it as fact. I’ll bet people love that!

  • Tom Bourque

    This reminds me of the comment section for the last episode of “The Atheist Experience” where a caller named “Charlie” (who is apparently “Charlie Check’m”) went on and on about how gays shouldn’t be allowed to be “married”. When people disagreed with him he kept calling out logical “fallacies”.

    He was disemvoweled on there, so you’ll have to disable javascript to view his posts with vowels.

    http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2011/06/open-thread-on-episode-712.html

  • Schmeer

    Blacksheep,
    I think the point to asking for the evidence was to show that it does not exist. I wasn’t the one asking, so I can only guess.

    As for graduate degrees in preaching or religion or theology, that was an intentional insult for all preachers. I think they wasted their time and money studying make-believe.

    If you can’t tell the difference between my opinion: CS Lewis wasn’t bright, and fact: he never considers the possibility that Jesus never existed, it certainly explains why you think that your opinion is evidence for anything other than your opinion.

    A college degree doesn’t make anyone intelligent. It shows that you might have gotten an education. A degree in being a priest shows that you wasted your time.

    • Poppet

      “A degree in being a priest shows that you wasted your time.”

      I like how you are so open-minded. You are an inspiration to atheists everywhere to be free-thinking open-minded people that don’t let others do their thinking for them.

  • cat

    Blackson is a homophobic bigot. And, as a matter of historical fact, he is also wrong. Just in the US alone, queer black people have made amazing contributions to black communities http://gayblackcanadianman.com/2010/03/12/why-is-black-gay-lesbian-history-ignored-in-the-black-community/ Not to mention African cultures with queer histories (a nice take down of the idea that pre-colonial Africa was exclusively hetero here:http://zowaula.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=111&Itemid=1)

  • http://skepticsplay.blogspot.com miller

    Wow, this really pisses me off. And I’m especially pissed off on behalf of the LGBTQ Black community.

    BTW, to all commenters who are saying that this is unsurprising given the broadness of atheism… this is true, but besides the point. We, as the subset of atheists who are not homophobic, have a responsibility to call these people out. Because that’s the right thing to do. (And I don’t mean right in the objective morality sense, right in the bettering humanity sense.) Thank you AAA, and Friendly Atheist for doing that.

  • http://www.zazzle.com/atheist_tees The Godless Monster

    @James,
    In regards to my stating that disgust with homosexual behavior does not equate with homophobia, you wrote:

    “When they use the latter as a justification for the former, then it’s homophobia.”

    Yep, you’re absolutely right and it was certainly inferred by what you wrote. Apologies on my part for being a bonehead. :-)

  • Larry Meredith

    KD: “Those scientists were white, weren’t they?”

    Caller: “Why does that matter?”

    KD: “It matters to me because I’m black… if you’re not careful, even science can be racist.”

    is that… reverse racism?

  • cat

    On the disgust as homophobia point-yes, thinking queerness is disgusting is homophobic. Using it as an excuse for laws or explicit behavior is even more homophobic.

    I mean, think about a person who said “I find atheists and atheist behaviors disgusting, but I believe in seperation of church and state”. Sure, they are better than the theist who disagrees on the latter point, but they are still being hateful and bigoted towards atheists. The same concept applies to queer people.

  • Gene Mille

    It’s one thing to cling to an ignorant viewpoint that has been ingrained into a particular niche in society. It’s wholly another to not recognize that ignorance when provided the information that demonstrates how that ignorant viewpoint is wrong.

    I could excuse the ignorance if, when faced with the correct information, they apologized and corrected their error. Rather, they’ve chosen to attempt to silence their critics by disabling ratings and comments wherever possible (FB, YT, etc.).

    Apparently, they’re not familiar with the Streisand Effect.

  • Ben Finney

    > On the disgust as homophobia point-yes, thinking queerness is disgusting is homophobic. Using it as an excuse for laws or explicit behavior is even more homophobic.

    No. The former is homophobia; the latter is bigotry.

    > I mean, think about a person who said “I find atheists and atheist behaviors disgusting, but I believe in seperation of church and state”.

    That’s laudable. To recognise one’s prejudice but to refuse to act on it because it violates sound moral principles is an excellent use of our rational brains.

    > Sure, they are better than the theist who disagrees on the latter point, but they are still being hateful and bigoted towards atheists.

    No, bigoted is exactly what they’re not: they are refusing to turn their prejudice into an imposition of rules from that prejudice.

    A homophobic is not necessarily a bigot, just as a racist is not necessarily a bigot, and just as someone who finds my views offensive is not necessarily a bigot.

    The example you give is someone who has a prejudice (unfortunate) but is refusing to turn it into bigotry (laudable).

    These hosts with their “was the scientist white?” and “if you think race doesn’t matter, stop calling yourself black”, have crossed the line from prejudice to bigotry.

  • Brian Stoll

    FAIL! OMG, that’s crazy. He’s a homophobic conspiracy theorist!? How did he get a hosting position on that show LOL

  • http://estevancarlos.com estevan

    I just had an unintentional meeting with black atheists who knew/know Blackson. I mentioned this story and as soon as I dropped his name the group sighed and guffawed. They weren’t surprised to hear he was the one to make the comments.

  • Dan Lewis

    Yay, Friendly Atheist! Thanks for speaking up about this screw up in Atlanta!

  • Anonymous

    FAIL! OMG, that’s crazy. He’s a homophobic conspiracy theorist!? How did he get a hosting position on that show LOL

    Extreme hubris? Not to mention it wasn’t too hard considering it’s cable access that caters to religious folk?

  • Tolpuddle Martyr

    They look to me like old-style black nationalists, in the mold of the Nation of Islam or the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors. Conspiracy theories, check, bizarre racial nonsense, check, homophobia-check! Same old idiocy dressed up as atheism, presumably it was deemed time for a makeover over at the Nuwaubian nation’s offices, perhaps someone suggested they might be becoming irrelevant. Shock horror.

  • Cheng Vang

    > On the disgust as homophobia point-yes, thinking queerness is disgusting is homophobic. Using it as an excuse for laws or explicit behavior is even more homophobic.

    I had a conversation with a gay friend of mine, well, he doesn’t like to be called that, just more of a woman stuck in a man’s body. But eventually we got on the topic of ‘would you date/kiss/have sex with another man who is attractive (in a general sense) and a good person’. My answer is that no, I will not. Yes if allowed I would probably watch two attractive women going at it, but if I allowed I would not watch two guys going at it.

    Now, as a liberal atheist, I don’t think that makes me homophobic or bigoted at all. I have had people pass rumor about me that I’m gay because I openly associate with my gay friends in public (in part because most of my gay friends are cross dressers/drag queens). I would care less about those things. I support gay marriage and see it as two consenting adults who are in love making a choice. Yes, I admit that I find a man having sex with another man ‘icky’ (I understand that it is hypocritical because I don’t share this view with two women), but that is none of my business. If two consenting adults want to do that, that is their business, none of mine.

    I associate homophobia with fear and contempt, thinking something is ‘icky’ don’t fall in that category.

    • Poppet

      Actually, that part you wrote about “if I allowed I would not watch two guys going at it” does in fact make you homophobic. At least according to most so-called “freethinkers” that I see on the internet.

      I remember reading in many places that individuals would see two people of the same sex kissing, and would feel inherently profoundly disgusted. Certainly right on cue, several pro-gay atheists jumped down each of their throats and chastised them for following closed-minded hetero-normative dogma. The way society expects them to think. Letting Christian right-wing nutjobs do their thinking for them. Refusing to let go of the religious culture that they were raised with and which is so obviously domineering. Ad nauseum.

    • Poppet

      And yes, thinking that two gay people kissing are “icky” does fall under the category of being homophobic. You need to cast off the shackles that society has burdened you with and be more open-minded.

  • Frank Hamilton

    These guys do not represent Black or African-American thought conclusively in this country. This homophobia is not FreeThought but a gross distortion of it. They are entirely in denial about homosexuality in the Black community. These guys are as bad as racists in the White South. They are bigots and belie everything that FreeThought represents. It may be that this is a concerted effort to undermine FreeThought by destroying the fabric of understanding and legitimate tolerance in the U.S. by attacking homosexuals. They are spewing the same line as the white fundamentalist community and may as well be thought of as being the same.

    When they say that science can be racist, this is a denial of the scientific process, this is a gross misunderstanding of what science does. It is not racist but investigative and empirical and takes no social sides. These guys don’t really know the African way because Africa is not unilateral and Africans are not in lockstep as to what they espouse. These guys have changed their affiliation with one religion to join another, a mythical Pan-Africanism which does not exist.

  • bloomc

    Everything in this video has a shocking resemblance o the Nation of Islam. Black people used religion as an excuse to separate themselves racially. Although, atheism is not a religion, I think it is quite obvious they are doing the same thing here. I feel comfortable assuming that the “Black” part of the group’s title is much more significant to them than the “Atheists” part. It’s just another excuse to separate themselves racially. This is no longer religious vs. non-religious argument, in this case. It’s reverse discrimination. How can they expect white people to not discriminate against black people if they are first separating themselves?

  • Toi

    This is the greatest example of not all atheists being intelligent!

    Okay…since when did the black church have an issue with homosexuality? I have not fooled with the church in a very long time but I grew up in it and as I recall, it was not at all uncommon for the organist, the pianist or the choir director to be flaming! Can I can an AMEN?

    And what is this AFRICAN CUSTOM stuff.

    Oh…like cutting off the clitoris of girls in a custom of the entire continent of AFRICA..right?

    Or all AFRICAN men have multiple wives…or ALL African nations sold or traded their neighboring tribesmen for baubles, beads and rum? Give me a break fellows.

    First of all…homosexuality is not the majority of any culture, black, white or asian. Homosexuality however is found in ALL cultures and that is certainly not anything new.

    And by the way…MACHO AFRICAN MEN…while you’re busy with all that macho peter wagging…did it ever occur to you that if AFRICAN men were so dang macho in the first place, their women, children, land and own rear ends might not have ended up stolen or colonized by the white man? Where was all that testosterone when it was needed! Colonization translates to getting your own behind kicked in your own dang house and having it taken from you…oh and having you wait on your massah while he occupies it!

    So was it a bunch of European homos that kicked yalls macho African butts? lol…you guys are a cartoon at best!

    You don’t speak for all black atheist…it is clear that your historical study of Africa is limited if at all and I personally think you’re just a couple of those old school ‘We-dont’ coloreds… WE don’t molest kids or rape women, ‘We don’t be no serial killers”…We don’t…blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!

    James Brown wrote a song about it…like to heah it…heah it go…”Talkin loud and sayin nothin…and sayin nothin…and sayin nothin…”.

    Signed…lol…black, straight , atheist, homo-sexual friend having/loving sistah in Scottsdale!

    Oh and Bloomc…please hush with that ridiculous reverse discrimination fantasy. White folk discriminating has nothing to do with anything that anyone has ever done to them. And I have countless numbers of years of history to prove it. Many people have sung Kumbaya while white folk were wearing them out. You sound like Rodney King! ‘Can’t we…(you know the rest)

  • http://afemalesperspective.com Sabrina

    I am an African American woman who is a proud atheist. These people in no way represent my views. This is some of the worst forms of free thinking that I have ever seen or heard. If you want to even call it free thinking.

    When I first watched the video I could not help, but screaming out what the hell are you talking about! They keep saying that this is fact and that they are speaking on logic. I have no idea where they got their information from and I truly believe that they don’t know either. They are just speaking on ignorance.

  • Meesh_elle

    Their status of being atheist is really just a mask to the true nature of their rant. To me their rant is essentially racist in nature not some misrepresentation or affront of the Atheist community, what everyone is making it out to be. From the outside looking in, I’m sure it looks bad from a popular view but who cares, it not like we atheists are proselytizing our worldview.

    It’s also pretty clear to me that they are trying to use the atheist term to mask their racism and make it appear that they are more logical, than conservative religious people. It seems as though they view homosexuality as a result of White culture (which they try to mask by calling it European/Greco-Roman and make it appear as though they are talking about ancient civilizations) that divides African-American communities, thus gay African-Americans are wrong because they are separating themselves from the African-American community.

    You just have to sift through their bullshit to get to the root of the problem. As someone who is a lesbian, atheist, African-American I have had first-hand experience with individual’s feeling as though they need to continue and maintain the strength of the African-American community. Unfortunately, more often than not ingroup members often push away any attitudes or lifestyles that are a perceived threaten to it’s cultural strength and cohesion.

    But that’s just my two cents, feel free to disagree.

    • WeepForTheirChildren

      @Meesh_elle… Well said :) they are not only confusing issues but also making both groups look bad (Atheist and African-Americans) made me a little disappointed to in either category with them until I remembered that those categories don’t matter and that you can have imbecile from any background with any label behind them. (and about being a black, non-religous, homo… :) it upsets the balance sooo much) we’ll never hear the end of it from homophobic relatives or over zealous religous types who claim our way of life threatens their own :(

      • WeepForTheirChildren

        Sorry for all the typing errors :(

      • kwame Lazarus

        Are you weeping for the children of those that are homosexuals? Maybe  you weren’t aware, two homo couples don’t have children together….that’s why they are homo. They prey on hetero/normal children;  You sound as confused as your name, dude.

    • Kwame Lazarus

      I disagree…freely.

  • Kwame Mensah

    So once again white supremacy raises it’s ugly head once again, that train is never late. If you disagree that’s fine, but why do you feel the need to police his comments?

  • Everagej

    Out of all these comments, not one person disproved their statement with hard science to show that homosexuality is a normal functioning of the human being.  Show proof that there is an actual homosexual gene.  Show the science.  Furthermore, all the Black Atheists who commented on here are extremely ignorant on Africa, African culture(s) and people, the African Diaspora, and are totally “White Washed”–if you want to be part of an interracial society and not group identify-do you and people who choose to primarily identify with their ethnic group and promote the interests of people of African descent are entitled to do what is good for them. You are probably the same clowns who will down African Americans for wanting group advancement, cohesiveness, and empowerment.  But admire and sing praises of Chinese, Arab, Irish, Italians, Mexicans and White folks in general who practice the same damn thing by retaining their language, creating ‘China Towns”  and other ethnic/cultural enclaves that primarily serve their interests that some of you fools probably have frequented, and patronizing their businesses that is run by their friends and family that primarily benefits them, speaking positively on their family and strong cultural bonds but crap on Black people from great heights who desire to do the same and in the same breath complain that Black people can’t advance because we can’t come together for a common goal.  So, I guess every other ethnic group is entitled to advance their interests and empower themselves but not Black people.  Give me a break.   Live your life, and let others live their life.  Every Black person, unlike yourselves are not in love with White folks and/or they prioritize the advancement and economic empowerment of their own people first and foremost.  Also, you must be deaf, dumb,and blind–in major denial–  if you fail to recognize the system of White Supremacy and White racism that exist in this country and through out the world. 

    For everyone, if you don’t like what was said, the intelligent thing to do is to provide scientific evidence to back up your claim in support of homosexuality and not engage in emotional personal perspective rants.  Also, for the clown that said there is no law of reproduction–how did you get here?  Did you just pop out of the sky?  Did not an egg and a sperm produce the seed that is you?  Tell me when too sperms join together as one to produce a seed (a child), show proof that two eggs came together as one and produced a seed (child).  When you do that, then I may bear witness to your statement that there is no law of reproduction.   So far, I have never known of a gay male couple who did not need the egg and the womb of a female to have children of their own, and I have never known of a lesbian female couple that did not need a sperm donor to reproduce.  Now show me scientific evidence that proves otherwise and I will seriously take your viewpoint in consideration.  Other than that, what you say about not being a law of reproduction is laughable.  Peace.

    • Kwame lazarus

      You are one of the most articulate and sensible minds I have heard since I decided to join and network with other atheists groups. I, too admire the courage this group has shown. Afrikans have been assaulted for centuries and this is the latest. Thanks again for speaking what is termed “truth to power”.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_HOQ4TUKVEVM2ZK5HVZZKEGUD7Q Shannon

      stupid ass opinion but you have a right to say it people are attracted to who they are attracted to if that happens to be a same sex person a person of opposite sex a person that is a different race, religion, or culture than you then that HAPPENS why does it have to be some deep thing? why do you need scientific proof of it? instances of homosexuality also happen among animals the point is who gives a f*ck? who does this affect aside from the people engaging in the homosexual encounters? nobody and wtf is law of reproduction? All it takes is a simple click to google typing in “the law of reproduction” and i guarantee yo won’t find shit but this 
      http://rhoadestoreality.wordpress.com/2011/11/06/silly-arguments-the-law-of-reproduction/ yes, we all know you need an egg and a sperm to reproduce as humans, but what about those species that reproduce asexually? hmm? where does your “law of reproduction” come into play there? step back and reevaluate your argument sir or madam cause this one is not strong enough

  • Mitch Owen
  • Ahmonj

    Atheists don’t invest themselves in beliefs as final and all encompassing… How can u tell an atheist not to have the opinions they want… Atheism ain’t a click or religion… Yu cannot condemn people because they have different viewpoints… That is judeo Christian Eurocentric elitism…. Disguised as atheism…

    • Kwameamensah

      Good job i like how you think and support your argument. 

  • Ahmonj

    Is this an atheist website? Y’all talking about “universal morality” and ” what’s right”… Since when are atheists moral representatives and police… What standard of “right and wrong” are you using? What doctrine? Sounds like masked Christianity to me… Atheism is not a belief system!

  • Charliecheckm

    This is charlie check’m. I’m the one who told BAA to do a show about queers.  I’m the one who first gave them the idea that queers are using the atheist movement to advance their agenda. So you can blame it on me. lol

  • Toppuppy_99

    Question did greek society believe in homosexuality be it adult with adult or adult with  child. Isn’t westertern civilaztion based on greek society? Does  to humans of the same sex reproduce? if  i’m against homosexuallity i’m i homophobic or are people attempting to shame me into being quiet by saying i’m homophobic? what is the definition of racism? Does Africa American  means africa is the land of there ancestors?  I ask these question cause we commit without no historical background or thought.  Last question athiest is a greek term give to the Greek philospries Where was the greek philospries educated at?The answer to that will tell u where athietism came from.

  • Rendezvousguy

    If he is anti-homosexuality, why did his girlfriend catch him having a 3 year affair with a Latino guy? My gaydar went blimped the moment I met him.


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