‘Smut for Smut’ Campaign Returns to Texas Campus

Last week, the Atheist Agenda campus group at the University of Texas at San Antonio ran their now-annual “Smut for Smut” campaign, in which holy books could be exchanged for hard-core pornography.

“The point is not to hand out porn, but rather the primary purpose is to get people to come talk to us so we can get our message out,” Kyle Bush, the group’s president, said. “We want to spread atheism and bring it more to the spotlight. We offer another alternative to people who might not fit in anywhere else.”

Instead of rehashing the same arguments I’ve made before, below is a reprint of a post I made last year on this topic.

It was less than a year ago when I lamented that the Smut for Smut campaign run by the Atheist Agenda group at the University of Texas at San Antonio was a bad idea:

… I get the point. The Bible has smut and violence and that needs to be pointed out. It’s not all rainbows, flowers, and Jesus.

But if the group’s goal is to get people to consider atheism as a reasonable way of looking at the world, it’s the wrong way to go about it.

I can’t imagine anyone changing their mind over such a campaign. If anything, they’ll just push atheists (and their ideas) further away.

Who’s joining the group over stunts like this? Probably people I wouldn’t want to be in a group with in the first place — the type that get off on pushing religious people down instead of doing something meaningful and productive.

One of the group’s officers issued a rebuttal to that posting the next day.

The turnout of people from our Smut for Smut campaign only proves it’s working. Never have we had a response from the student body like this before. While it may seem like a lot of negative flack, sitting at the table I have talked to TONS of open minded people who are willing to listen if I’m ready to listen. And I’ve had EXTREMELY intelligent conversations with some. Now of course you get those people that first start off like they’re gonna be intelligent about it and then end up bible thumping you in the face. But it’s through Smut for Smut that we have had the opportunity to have our voices HEARD.

Too often are we as the minority overshadowed and undermined by the religious majority. Too often are we subjected to just listen to what the religious try to tell us is right without having a word to say back. Too often are we judged as immoral people because we don’t have faith in some God.

I say to those against the campaign, you try finding a way to get HUNDREDS, possibly THOUSANDS of students to be willing to actually DISCUSS with you, in a way that isn’t going to offend someone.

This year, Atheist Agenda is running the same campaign and, once again, the media is covering it:

“It is to send a message that the stuff in the bible, and the Quran, and the Torah, and all that sort of thing is, in our case worse, in our opinion worse, than pornography,” explained UTSA student Kyle Bush.

This is the second year in a row for the event. Christian students were also out talking to fellow students about their beliefs. It’s not known how many students actually turned in their bibles for the pornographic material.

For some reason, this time around, this event doesn’t strike me as all that provocative.

Maybe it’s because I’ve seen more “controversial” statements on atheist billboards. Or maybe it’s because the reasons for supporting it a lot of you gave in the past has finally sunk in. I’m just not in opposition to this event as much as I used to be.

I still don’t think it’s the type of campaign I would’ve run if I were still leading a college atheist group. I think it invites a lot of negative publicity — and not in the any-coverage-is-good-coverage sort of way.

One reason I liked the “You KNOW it’s a myth” billboard was that it was aimed at atheists who are in the closet. It encouraged them to come out.

I still wonder who the “Smut for Smut” campaign is directed at…

Out atheists? They probably know about the group’s existence already.

In-the-closet atheists? Why would they be drawn to a group like this…?

Christians? They’d probably just get offended and avoid conversation… or have a conversation for the sake of conversion.

So who is the target audience for the porn?

If the goal is simply to get attention, I guess the group wins. But what have they sacrificed in return?

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the chair of Foundation Beyond Belief and a high school math teacher in the suburbs of Chicago. He began writing the Friendly Atheist blog in 2006. His latest book is called The Young Atheist's Survival Guide.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-A-Anderson/100000016895400 John A. Anderson

    Before handing out more porn, they need to learn the difference between “flack” and “flak.” A flack is a press agent. Flak is a German military acronym meaning anti-aircraft shell shrapnel. They mean “flak.” My father took some flak, literally, aboard a B-17 during World War II. Flack can also refer to Roberta, but I don’t think that’s what they meant.

    • Anonymous

       Technically it means “anti-aicraft cannon”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001612243746 Rory Barclay

        Technically it means Fliegerabwehrkanone… :D

        • Fliegerabwehrkanone

          You just gave me my new screen name

  • http://www.emilvikstrom.se/ Emil Vikström

    Humor can be a great way to reach people. This may actually not be that offending if the arranging group is doing this as a joke and their audience “gets it”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sandy-Kokch/100000074576649 Sandy Kokch

    I’m totally in agreement with you Hemant.

    I have a background in intell analysis, and no matter how many ways I try to run this through the cost benifit analysis process it continually fails. The main reason for this is that of all western states the US is the most “puritanical”. All this seems to do is fall directly into the canard trap of the religulous reich….look at the evil degenerate atheists handing out porn in public to college kids. No matter how hard you try to add satire and reason in the court of publc and media opinion this is a fail waiting to happen.

    Here is a thought for the dimwits who come up with stunts like this. How would this be percieved by your average joe public member fed a slanted perspective by a partisan media?

    Why the hell give out porno? You could just as easily offer to replace the holy books with books of reason – Origin of the Species for example, or some other evolution primer, some texts from the NCSE….anything. No…. you chose to give out porn because it was the most outragous stunt you could think of. Dont try any of the shlly shally with me….it aint gonna wash. You are just as dumb as the holy book burner crowd, and just as short sighted.

    • Anonymous

      “And your little stunt fest may amuse some students, but boy are you alienating the general public.”

      Because the target audience is the general public?

      “Why the hell give out porno?”

      Because it will garner more attention than other more mundane material.  While hi-lighting the inane chastity angle from theists.  Porn is pretty much mainstream now a days.

      “Even the analogy aspect is a fail.”

      Trading good porn for bad?  Seems like a public service to me.

    • Anonymous

      Why the hell give out porno? You could just as easily offer to replace the holy books with books of reason – Origin of the Species for example, or some other evolution primer, some texts from the NCSE….anything.
      Exactly! When students handed out Darwin’s “Origin” in exchange for bibles, it made perfect sense, but porn? Overall, it smears the names of atheists. While I understand that those running the program have drawn in people who will talk to them, I don’t see how it creates a positive image for their group, or for atheists.

      • FSq

        Have you read the bible? SOme of the shit in that horrid tome is as gross, over-the-top and vile as some of the porn you rail against. Yet, you seem to feel it is fine to let anyone have access to the bible. Do you let young children read or have access to the bible? If so, that is tantamount to endangering the welfare of a child.

        The title of the campaign was “Smut for Smut” – so why would they give away “On the Origin of Species” for a bible. One is smut, the other isn’t.

        • Anonymous

          Are you really this ignorant or are you just playing dumb for the crowd’s amusement? The point I was making is pretty obvious- exchange the myth for something one may actually learn from. The “smut” isn’t likely draw a deep-thinking crowd, just a bunch of horny teenagers. How many people who approached their booth do think actually learned something, or even had a real conversation about religion and atheism? My guess is, not many. Of course since the group doesn’t seem to have documented much about the campaign, who knows?

          • FSq

            Before you accuse me of being ignorant, turn that ignorant radar back onto yourself. The event was called SMUT FOR SMUT. Not SMUT for something-with little-yellow-butterflies-and-happy puppies.

            The point was to show how vile and awful and smut filled the bible is, and to offer a more fun version of smut for that myth filled smut.

            And how do you know the purpose wasn’t to reach that “horny teenager” demographic – so relevant to the Neilson ratings….

            Really, all you have done is show your anger and ignorance, all while inverting it onto us. Which, by the way, is a very typical christian and religious idiot behavior. You guys seem to believe the old “I know you are but what am I” shtick is a great argumentation technique.

            *spoiler alert*

            It isn’t.

            • Anonymous

              I’m an atheist kiddo…who’s the idiot now? Maybe the purpose was to reach horny teenagers, though I can’t imagine that that is the population that would be useful to reach. The point I have been repeatedly making while you turn a blind eye is that the smut campaign in general is an idiotic and potentially damaging way to approach others about atheism. As an atheist, I’m embarrassed by such techniques, as are those with a maturity level above that of the average 15 year old.
              Now, as for the anger and ignorance: All of your posts thus far show exactly that, though I understand why you’d be loathe to recognize that. If you had read the post you responded to before starting your tantrum, you would have easily recognized my position as an atheist- I don’t know any Christians who refer to their sacred belied system as a myth. Perhaps you should open your eyes, close your mouth, and open yourself up to learning a little something about multiple perceptions on a subject before digging yourself into such an embarrassing hole next time you post.

              • FSq

                But you are arguing from a very weak leg. And your little work with the mentally infirmed and abused families doens’t mean shit. It just means you couldn’t get a job where you could make some real money.

                And yes, I find it amusing that you are using the University of Google and cut-n-paste technology in the guise of expertise and self-knowledge. You are just an arrogant ass for trying that. Actually, no, make that pretentious. As for your experience where you convince yourself that porn = bad, anecdotal evidence is worthless.

                • Anonymous

                  Just one last thing: perhaps one of the reason’s that you’re so angry all the time is because you don’t actually feel very good about yourself. You attack my education and my ability to use the knowledge I obtained- perhaps you should go back to school, expand your knowledge, grow as a person. You attack my career because it isn’t a big money maker- which it certainly is not- but of course, I don’t do it for the money. I feel fulfilled by the work I do, helping families heal, helping individuals grow stronger, and providing a positive service for my community and society. It’s rewarding work. While you, on the other hand, tape people having sex. Sounds pretty empty to me. 

    • http://www.facebook.com/eukota Darrell Ross

      Your anti-porn bias is pretty clear. So you don’t like porn.

      But your arguments against their strategy show you are out of touch with how the average college-aged student thinks.

      Porn is super fun for a college student. The bulk of college students come straight from highschool. Guess what becomes legal to buy at age 18 aside for tobacco? That’s right. PORN!

      So we have huge “problems” in the USA with underaged drinking despite tons of publicity against it. Do you think that all the anti-porn puritans somehow managed to convince young hormone-filled newly-found-freedom adults not to look at porn? Who are you kidding?! :P

      When I see this advertisement from a college student’s perspective, what I see is, “Hey, we’re open minded and will talk about anything. Come chat with us.” The “Atheist Agenda” poster fits perfectly too.

    • The Other Weirdo

       On the other hand, perhaps cost/benefit analysis is appropriate when you’re planning a military action, and not appropriate for actions such as these.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001612243746 Rory Barclay

    I think the best thing about aggressive ‘in your face’ type campaigns like this is that they can push the boundaries of what the atheist community can do. 

    Too often there’s hand-wringing and horror about the nasty atheists who have had the sheer audacity to mention that they even exist, and being meek and mild so that you don’t offend them doesn’t seem to change the status quo. Atheists in America seem to be pushed into a corner, and it’s only by pushing back and hard that you’ll have any space at all to even begin having a reasoned discussion with religion.

    I think that’s illustrated best by the billboard campaigns at the moment. Plain ones with just a single word like ‘Atheists’ are deemed offensive? There’s much more offensive stuff out there, and it’s usually in a certain kind of book.

    So keep it up atheist Americans, don’t apologise to the naive for existing, and don’t let them ignore you!

  • Dave Churvis

    I don’t think the target is any of the groups you mentioned, but rather those students who aren’t particularly religious, but are also not atheist or agnostic in their own minds. in other words, the ones who just plain haven’t thought much about it. the whole intent seems to be to target those people and make them think.

    • http://www.facebook.com/eukota Darrell Ross

      I agree. Most uber-religious folks will turn away. But there’s not a huge point in talking to them anyway. The target audience are the cultural-theists who check the “Christian” box on the census because they were raised that way. They have open minds and would likely find the “Smut for Smut” slogan entertaining. They likely don’t even know of the offensive passages in the Bible.

      A perfect target audience at a perfect time in their lives imo.

  • http://twitter.com/nicoleintrovert Nicole Introvert

    I also don’t understand the name “Atheist Agenda”.   What agenda? 

    • Anonymous

       You see our agenda, to them is the same as the gay agenda. How dare we consider ourselves equal to the myth believers.

      • FSq

        You know what I always say to the religious folks when they realize I am an atheist and they get freaked? I say “Oh, you guys are just like us, only with an added bit if crazy.”

        I refuse to say “Oh, we are just like you” because that is an inverse submissive. It is so much better to say they are just like us with the crazy. They get SO indignant.

    • http://www.facebook.com/eukota Darrell Ross

      Pretty sure the “Atheist Agenda” poster is similar to the “Homosexual Agenda”. It doesn’t exist. It’s tongue-in-cheek.

      • http://twitter.com/nicoleintrovert Nicole Introvert

        I get that.  However, I don’t feel the general population of people not in on the joke would.  Thus, just giving more fuel to “they have an agenda.”

        • Rwlawoffice

           Actually I think the Rally for Reason made it clear that the secular community in this country do have an agenda.

          • http://CoffeeShopAtheist.com/blog Patrick

            “We’re here, We’re Godless, Get Over It?”

            Horton hears a who is hardly an agenda.

            • Rwlawoffice

              Actually it was more of the idea to get politicians to know you are a large voting block and that your vote needs to be taken into account instead of the votes of the religious people in this country.  That along with the agenda to get religion out of the public square.

              • http://twitter.com/nicoleintrovert Nicole Introvert

                 Stating “My secular vote counts too!” is hardly an agenda.

              • FSq

                Are you afraid you are going to lose your preferred status, or have to “live and let live”?

                Jesus titty-fucking christ, you religious idiots need to learn the difference between persecution and not getting preferred treatment. There is a difference.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Whoever said anything about persecution?  I  just think it is disingenuous to say that there is not an atheist movement that has an agenda. There clearly is.

                • FSq

                  Oh there is an atheist agenda. And that must just scare the beejeezus out of your type. You know your days of preferential treatment are coming to an end, and like any animal that loses its alpha status, you must be scared shitless.

    • Ndonnan

      The agenda to minamalise or eventually ban christianity from having any influence in society.This way people will be free to live their lives with a minimum of guilt because their will be no absolutes, everything will be relative to how you as an indervidual see it.This is why porn is the perfect mediem for this publicity stunt, the target is young boys or lesbian girls who are easily influenced.Some might say its exploiting women,which of course porn is,but i guess that is a good example of somthing that is only relative to some spoit sport pureist and not to atheists in general.Hope ive been helpful?

  • David McNerney

    I disagree completely.  
    It’s always a big defence when someone says atheists have a belief system or an ideology or other stuff, that “We do not believe in gods” – and that’s all we have in common.

    So how is there a movement or a goal that can be hurt.  And when someone does something you don’t like, what basis do you have to disagree with that?

    You might have a goal of promoting atheism positively (which I might agree with) – but there is nothing in the definition of atheism that requires that.  I could be strongly believe that I should promote atheism by being a complete prick – and I’d be right.

    I know we’d all like positive publicity – but you don’t get to require that.  (Of course, if you are a Humanist, then you do).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-McLaughlin/100000447965254 Chris McLaughlin

    Conservative religionists find porn offensive. Porn is not offensive. Why not highlight the hypocrisy of it all? Hermant, I fail to find any good reason in your objection. By the same reasoning (“we should not offend religious people”) we atheists might do just as well staying in the closet.

    We are atheists. We need not act as if we share religious values. It would be deceptive to pretend that we care about porn in the same way that the religious do. If we are to fight for acceptance of who we are and what we believe, then we must not pull any punches.

    • Anonymous

      Being offended by porn is not saved just for the religious. Many people find it offensive at worst, distasteful at best. Ask any feminist group, for example, what their take on it is. They will tell you- and it won’t have a thing to do with religion, but about the degradation of women. I, for one, find it disturbing when any person has to turn to selling their bodies to survive, or even to feel wanted. 
      As for Hemant’s take, I understand completely. It is hard enough to be an “out” atheist, without rather juvenile stunts like this reflecting poorly on us. I prefer to see the reasonable use their reason, logic, and wit to present our perspective, and to represent atheists publicly.

      • Tex

        Being disgusted about people having to sell their bodies to survive isnt that great a reason to be against porn, its just a good reason to be selective about what porn you consume.  There is plenty of porn staring actors/actresses who chose to that line of work because they honestly want to, and there are starting to be more and more directors and producers who not only treat the actors/actresses well, but let them have a say not only in what they do in the films, but who they do it with, and genuinely take their safety into account.

        Is that most porn right now? No, but demonizing all porn is a great way to keep things they way they are.

        • Anonymous

          I understand and agree that there is a small portion of the industry that is respectful to its actors. However, that is not what this group is using in its “Smut for Smut” campaign. They are exchanging bibles for hard-core porn- both of which are distasteful pieces of print in my opinion.

          • Dbaker13

            “Both of which are distasteful pieces of print”

            Smut for smut. Exactly!

          • The Other Weirdo

             If all they’re handing out is print porn, they can keep it.

            • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Leithiser/593361421 Chris Leithiser

              I’ll take it.

          • FSq

            Could you give a citation that “hard-core porn” is being traded? Seriously, where did you get that snippet? Or are you assuming it?

            • Anonymous

              “Last week, the Atheist Agenda campus group at the University of Texas at San Antonio ran their now-annual “Smut for Smut” campaign, in which holy books could be exchanged for hard-core pornography.”It’s right there in this first line of the article. Glad I could be of service.

              • FSq

                Check the source. This is from a blogpost – not exactly a bastion of journalistic ethics.

                • Anonymous

                  Yet here you are, arguing on a blog…hmm. I get the distinct feeling that you just like to be an ass without adding anything useful to a conversation. Do I need to cite sources for that to?

                • FSq

                  We can talk an the blog, but until you can give the specific citation that is verified and confirmed with at least three other sources, it is hearsay and not a concluded fact.

                • Anonymous

                  What do you think you’re talking about, really? An idiotic stunt pulled by children who don’t recognize the damage they’re doing. This isn’t astrophysics kiddo, it’s an event- one the AA didn’t even bother to document well. If you want exact info, perhaps you should visit their website… oh wait they don’t have one. It’s not exactly a well-organized bunch from the looks of things. Perhaps you can find an email address for one of them, ask them your pointless questions.

                • FSq

                  Annnnnnnnd there it is, the judgement and anger. Why are you christians so angry? Who hurt you? Did god do something to upset you?

                  There it is, just simmering under that thin veneer of false love and “tolerance”….the hate and anger so common to christians….

                • Anonymous

                  Your one to talk about anger kiddo… I can praaactically see the steam coming out of your earsas youtype! Andjudgment…whew! You’re so wrapped up in your inanityas to completlymiss thatfact thatI’m an atheist- and an outspoken one at that. What a moron.

                • FSq

                  Yes I am angry. As an atheist I have LOTS to be angry about! I never said I wasn’t angry! Hell, the emotion seeps out of every pore on my body. But I am not a hypocrite about it, unlike the christians and religious idiots!

      • Ndonnan

        Well said,but their target is easily influenced young boys so porn is the perfect tool.It is a juvenile stunt,by juveniles,to juveniles,but it is a good example of why atheists are so poorly viewed in the community

      • http://thefloatinglantern.wordpress.com/ Tim Martin

        First off, no one is “selling their body.” Porn actors are acting. Prostitutes are performing a service for money. They are no more “selling their bodies” than massage therapists are.

        Second, I’d like to see your evidence that every feminist group is anti-porn.

        Third (since this comes up in your comment below), I’d like to see the data on what percentage of porn actors are mistreated.

        I’m guessing your objections are more based in porn-negativity than fact, but I’m open to being wrong about that.

  • http://twitter.com/PeterByrom Peter Byrom

    Why on Earth would you choose to spread atheism like this?

    Does it not just send the negative message that atheists are, literally, wankers?

    • Skizzle

      …and?  What’s wrong with masturbating?  It hurts nobody, feels good, and is easily the safest form of sexual gratification one can achieve.  Without religion, I fail to see anything wrong with it.

      • Anonymous

        Not too mention…..
        http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8125934.stm

        Sperm degrades the longer it sits in the testes…..

        Your doing your species a solid by masturbating.

        • The Other Weirdo

           You’re. The word you are searching for is You’re.

          You’re doing your species a solid by masturbating.

          Otherwise, perfect. I’m gonna have to steal that one.

      • Ndonnan

        With religion i fail to see anything wrong with it,nothing in the bible about it

    • http://www.facebook.com/joe.zamecki Joe Zamecki

      Shock value, and it works. The discussion in the video was all about religion, not porn. Did you notice that? I think that’s probably representative of the whole project.  Besides, I think “wanker” is much preferable to “Atheist,” in the minds of our opposition. lol

    • http://www.facebook.com/eukota Darrell Ross

      Even beyond shock value, I recall being in college. I was away from home, I could finally look at porn without my parents looking over my shoulders. It was a relief to find that others were ok with discussing so many topics including porn and religion.

      One thing I really miss about college is that open-minded talk-about-anything-without-being-offended attitude. Perhaps my secular college was unusual but I don’t think so.

      Sex is not bad. Nudity is nothing to be ashamed of. Enjoying viewing naked people or people having sex is not bad – it’s quite normal. The negative press comes from a society which has repressed sex for ages.

    • Ndonnan

      Yes peter, yes it does,a very good example of why atheism is so poorly viewed by others .

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.zamecki Joe Zamecki

    This is awesome! Obviously it works, because here’s Smut for Smut again, for another year. Our movement has a wide variety of methods of activism that have been tried, and as an activist who has tried a great MANY of those methods, only to reach on average a small amount of media attention at best, I think Smut for Smut is a good idea, just because it works! We’re able to read how the media reports on it every time, and folks, you need to know, that’s half of the giant goal that is so hard to reach for so many grassroots activists. The other half is getting people out to work the project, and again, this group succeeds in that half as well, with flying colors. 

    It’s easy to judge these methods harshly, AFTER one have been on some of the biggest stages in  our movement, and/or done interviews for the big media outlets.  Most other activists and groups don’t get to do that regularly, so please remember that media attention is not easy to obtain. Not all of us gets a call back from the media, just to hear our opinions on things. lol 

    Also it’s important to remember that studies show that we’re not interfering with an all-positive reputation. Our movement is still hated, way beyond reason. The cost of our movement’s progress has been that we have angered and offended millions of Christians – and yet we’re still here, we still grow, and the mere concept of secularism is still the worst insult to our opposition. It’s much more unpopular with them, than the word “smut,” imho.

    I see no harm in this whatsoever. Bravo to the Atheist Agenda!

  • http://twitter.com/PeterByrom Peter Byrom

    What do the feminists think, also?

    (p.s. good coverage, Friendly Atheist)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001612243746 Rory Barclay

      Last I checked, the only people with a problem with wanking were the ones with a sky-fairy looking over their shoulder…

      • http://twitter.com/PeterByrom Peter Byrom

        Or atheists who can’t get a date? ;-)

        What do you have to say to those atheists who disapprove of porn?

        What about atheist feminists who find it disrespectful and even abusive toward women?

        What about the scientific studies showing how porn can lead to addiction and disrupt relationships and maybe even the rest of your life? Not to mention the danger of becoming a “one-minute man”?

        • Skizzle

          1. First Amendment.
          2. First Amendment.
          3. If you don’t want to deal with the negative consequences of consuming porn, then don’t consume it.

        • Salty

          Most of the feminists I know are big supporters of wanking….

          There are many kinds of pornorgraphy…. the fastest-growing genre in porn today is made for women and by women.   Unless the specific type of porn was degrading (to anyone, not just women), I don’t have any issue with it.  

        • http://www.facebook.com/eukota Darrell Ross

          If you disapprove of porn, then don’t watch it. Not like it’s being taught in schools or enforced via legislature.

          “Porn” covers a huge gradient of recorded acts. I am pretty sure that some people will find some porn either disrespectful or abusive. Different strokes for different blokes. :P

          Any hobby taken too far can lead to addiction and disrupt relationships. Take shopping for example. Or sex. 

          Danger of a one-minute man? What do you have against being a one-minute man? LOL Nothing wrong with that. Different people have different sexual appetites and sexual preferences. Just look at the wide variety of porn available.

          Also, please cite your scientific studies.

        • Tex

          The thing with saying “OMG porn can be addicting and destroy families” is that thats true of EVERYTHING!  Literally.  Im in psych rotation for nursing school, and a lot of what we deal with are addictions.  I cant give you any actual examples Ive heard because that is questionable under HIPPA and I can get kicked out of the program for it.  I can give you one thats close enough though, people can get addicted to reading blogs and it can destroy families just as effectively as porn.

          Additionally the “danger of being a one-minute man”… seriously… masturbation is one of the techniques that can used to train guys to last longer.

        • Ndonnan

          Your spoiling it by asking all these poinient questions Peter

          • FSq

            That’s “poignant” there Shakespeare….I’ll give you that one for free.

            Everybody gets one.

        • FSq

          What studies? Without using Google, name one. Seriously, just name ONE.

          • Anonymous

            Do you not have access to peer-reviewed journal articles? There are plenty out there. Stop being lazy and do some research for yourself.

            • FSq

              I am not the one making a positive assertion regarding the studies the OP claims to know. SO when I ask, without the aid of Uni of Google, it is to test the credibility of the OP. 

              And above, you really went and tried to use cut-n-paste technology and the Uni of Google to make you look like some sort of expert. Tell me, what is your day job?

              • Anonymous

                I’m guessing you didn’t bother trying to link to the articles, which you wouldn’t be able to do anyway most likely. The articles come from peer-reviewed journals written by research psychologists… I know, I know, its like grown-up talk isn’t it. Let me dumb it down for you. Answers to these types of questions aren’t black and white. As you grow up, hopefully you’ll begin recognize that. The reason I cut and paste was twofold: 1) so you could see the abstracts as the authors wrote them, not my interpretation of their findings, and 2) because I was fairly certain you wouldn’t be in a position to access the articles in their entirety. So go ahead and throw another fit, but I was trying to do you the favor of not assuming you were an uneducated child and give you info that highlights the complexity of the subject. Apparently I was wrong, sorry.

                • FSq

                  Why are you letting the terrorists win? Do you hate freedom? Do you hate America and jesus? Who hurt you?

                • Anonymous

                  Ah, just the kind of idiotic response I expected. Done with you now.

              • Anonymous

                “Tell me, what is your day job?”Not that it is any of your business, but my degrees are in psychology and human services . I work with families that have disintegrated due to abuse, neglect, drug use, domestic violence and others horrors that most people turn a blind eye to so they can pretend it doesn’t happen in their community, and would never happen to them. So, while not an expert on the subject, I have knowledge and experience in the area of human behavior, which happens to include effects of pornography on individuals and society. And you? 

                • FSq

                  I produce adult films in Van Nuys.

                  That and I co-produce a series of film strips on introducing legislation on capital hill aimed at seven to nine year olds.

                • Anonymous

                  Now your agenda is clear.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Don’t believe that for a second. But I did like the electric company “I’m a Bill” reference.

    • The Other Weirdo

       Who cares?

      • FSq

        THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!!

        Finally! Someone else who gets it!!!

        • Ndonnan

          Stop that now FSq,you been wanking off to porn again

    • Anarchogirl

      Feminists will not all agree, as some are pro-porn and some are not. I do like some porn, but there are many good criticisms against it. A great deal of porn showcases and normalizes the objectification, abuse, and rape of women. The industry also tends to take advantage of and exploit women. I would want nothingto do with an atheist grouplike this, not because I’m against porn or sex, but because they obviously don’t care about women’s issues or concerns. And its another example of atheists using the exploitation if others as a talking point. Thanks but I already knew the bible was sexist and misogynistic, but just being an atheist doesn’t make someone anti-sexist or anti-opression. Obviously, because check out all the sexist comments here.

    • FSq

      When did it become a rule that the feminist view has to be included in everything? Seriously? Where is that coming from? Now, I may be reading into your post here, but the last statement of “p.s. good coverage” came off as snark and sarcasm; if this is the case, it suggest you believe the feminist agenda must be included in any atheist agenda. Bullshit.

      • MommyAnarchy

        Of course we shouldn’t include the views of women, because after all men are the default human beings and only their opinions matter! And if porn showing women being raped and abused doesn’t bother men, then obviously there are no problems with it then those silly feminists are just being overly sensitive!
        Now lets all sit and wonder why atheist groups are composed of almost solely white men…. hmmm….

        • FSq

          Mommy,

          I never said women….I said feminists. All women are not feminists.

          And way to build an enormous strawman with the whole rape/porn thing. You do realize that the majority of porn, and almost all mainstream porn is NOT rape porn, right? You knew that though, right? And you it was just an oversight on your myopic part.

          And why, if you want equal rights, should we assume you were not included. By having equal rights, it is implied EVERYONE is included in the discussion. But what you are asking for is SPECIAL treatment, i.e. “Make sure to ask Gladys and Mavis what they think of all this”….Gladys and Mavis of course, being the feminists….

          • MommyAnarchy

            I have seen plenty of porn, and there is a huge amount of abuse and rape even in “mainstream” porn. Its not my problem if you’re so desensitized to it you don’t even notice. 
            But women don’t have equal rights, and often are not included in the discussion. And when we do raise our concerns and criticisms of porn, that is asking for special treatment? Its pretty pathetic if you think asking women for their viewpoints and actually listening somehow constitutes special treatment. But you’re so used to the special treatment you get as a man, how dare a woman ask for any consideration?!

  • Skizzle

    “But what have they sacrificed in return?”  Uhh…what the actual fuck does this mean?  As someone in college, I can say pretty confidently that the target audience (other college students) gets the joke/point of such an event.

    The more disconcerting part of all this is the sex-negativity.  Even if this fails to change anyone’s mind about religion, it’s rejecting the religious Right’s (and apparently some atheists’) negative and moralistic view of sexuality.  People like sex, and they like it a lot, so it seems to me that if we can get the message out there that atheism does not have any of the nonsensical sexual hangups that Christianity does then we will at least get young people thinking.

  • lauren s

     I actually find it offensive.  Hardcore heterosexual porn is
    misogynistic.  I am not anti sex or titillation, but I am against the
    objectification of women and using the objectification of women as
    “shock value” even though it is completely normal in society.   

    I know there are feminists who disagree.   But I for one don’t like this at all.

    • Skizzle

       Who said it was only heterosexual porn?

    • http://www.facebook.com/joe.zamecki Joe Zamecki

      I don’t think they give out much porn. True, in that sense, it’s like bait and switch. In the right direction. Want some free porn? Surprise! Let’s chat. 

      Obviously this isn’t about porn. 

    • Anonymous

       Do only men watch porn? Men are not sexually objectified? I suppose you never heard “size matters”. It’s a two way street. You should look both ways before entering the highway.

    • Anonymous

      I agree. Not only is it, at the very least, distasteful, but perhaps more importantly, who exactly are they are they drawing with this campaign? Horny college boys? Certainly not a lot of women and probably not a lot of more socially moderate people. I get that this group wants to stun and draw a crowd, but is it a crowd of logical thinkers they’re drawing?

  • Simon

    Ask the student group how many female students brought in their bibles.

    • Skizzle

      The fact that women have been shamed away from admitting to enjoying porn is not the fault of atheists.  It’s good that sex and pornography are being talked about more openly, rather than shunned and hidden like the religiously-minded would prefer.

      • Simon

        Doesn’t answer my question however. 

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Chris-Leithiser/593361421 Chris Leithiser

          I didn’t see a question mark on it.  If it’s your question, YOU ask them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/joe.zamecki Joe Zamecki

    I doubt they’re giving out hardcore porn. The main complaint with most porn is that it’s people looking at naked people. That’s it. A lot of porn has nothing to do with sex, it’s just a naked person, and yes, a lot of men and women want to look at that.

    I’ve always felt that a person who hates soft porn really just hates the human body.  Well sure, the human body isn’t perfect and comes with a variety of problems, but just looking at a healthy human body…is abusive? I don’t think so.  That’s irrational. 

    • Anarchogirl

      The “main complaint” about porn is the exploitation and objectification of women.
      I am a woman who sometimes enjoys porn. But I would have nothing to do with a group like this, because as usual athiests refuse to see any opression but their own and show they put zero thought into how many women could perceive this. Many women have been raped and abused. A great deal of porn shows women being abused and raped. I get that it is supposed to be funny, like “haha the bible has abuse and rape too” but it is not nny to me at least, and I’m sure many other women would be turned away too. Yes the bible is sexist and horrible and misogynistic, but so are plenty of atheist men.

  • Rwlawoffice

    As a Christian I say if you want to spread your message about atheism this is silly way to do it.  If you want to reinforce the stereotype that atheists are heathens without morals, then carry on.

    • http://www.facebook.com/joe.zamecki Joe Zamecki

      Well you heard about it, right? That goal is accomplished, with verification. 

      • Rwlawoffice

        I heard about it here.  Not on the local news.  If your goal was to get out a positive message about atheists to the Christian community then as a Christian I can tell you that this goal was not met.  If you wanted to confirm that atheists have destructive sexual morals then yes that message was received.

        • Skizzle

           WE have destructive sexual morals?  Yikes, someone’s got a case of the idiot.

          • Rwlawoffice

            Please explain.

            • Anonymous

              Because the *moral* majority already buys enough smut to fund one of the largest entertainment industries in the world?

              Yet it’s the atheists that have destructive sexual morals…..

              LOL

              • FSq

                Mississippi, the most religious state in the nation, has the highest consumption rate of porn and sex toys. 

                These are facts.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   Show your proof for that comment

                • FSq

                  Nah, I know it. I’ve read it and I don’t need to confirm it to you.

                  You seem to be a graduate of University of Google, go take the class and get the info.

                • FSq

                  And OOPS! My info was outdted. The Mississippi sex/porn consumption per capita was from 2002, when they ruled supreme. But apparanently we have a new champion of per capita spank-banks….UTAH! Yet another, near theocratic oppressive regime where sex is badddddd, humans are created in god’s image but the genitals apparently got outsourced to Satan.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Actually I am familiar with that study.  If you look a little deeper you will find that the only thing that they measured was credit card use for porn sites and the reason they thought it was higher in Utah is that if you want it that is where you have to get it, it doesn’t mean that religious people use porn more in Utah. 

                • FSq

                  Who hurtyou?Why are you angry withthe world? Why can’t you just accept reason into yourheart and let yourlife be blessed withrationality?

                • Ndonnan

                  Ha dont spoil their fun with  questions like that Law,hes on a roll

            • Skizzle

              Christianity teaches people (read: children) to fear and hate their bodies and the natural sexual impulses that they feel.  How porn could be more destructive than this twisted form of sexual morality is beyond me.

              • Rwlawoffice

                 I see your point – teaching children that it is perfectly moral for people to have sex for money and for other people to pay to watch them is less twisted then teaching them to have a healthy and satisfying sex life within the bounds of a marriage between a man and a woman.  Good luck with that.

                • Byskwik

                  I realize I’m feeding the trolls, but!

                  1. Sex for money is a lot more honest than marrying for security.

                  2. Healthy sex always ensues from 2 people who’ve been taught not to talk about sex, as opposed to all those sluts out there who have learned to enjoy their bodies & safely give their partners pleasure. No one ever feels pressured into giving their life partner what he or she wants at the cost their own comfort.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Right because all the people who engage in a promiscuous sexual lifestyle do so safely and with total respect for their partner. 

                • http://www.facebook.com/ellenbeth EllenBeth Wachs

                   Right and all who are married are monogamous and respectful of their partners? LOL- Get real. While I don’t approve of this campaign, it is for entirely different reasons than your silly objections. You are attempting to instill biblical morality on modern times.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  I never said that they were.  But saying that things are better now in a time of sexual immorality is what I call alleged arrogance of advancement .  If people were honest with themselves about teh effectgs of rampent promiscuity they would see its harmful effects instead of just seeing it as a license to do as they please.

                • FSq

                  What harmfuleffects? Andaccording to whom? christians. All offense intened,but yourjudgements…..you can blow them out yourass.

                • FSq

                  What are you scared of? Why are you so afraid of your pee-pee and your wives hoo-haw. Seriously, you come off as scared of something, or that you hate your body. Why?

                • Rwlawoffice

                   Your assumptions about me are as faulty as your arguments and your “logic” expressed in our discussion.  If you can’t have a healthy sex life without pornography that says more about you and your partner then the love and respect I have for my wife expressed in part by being faithful to her in all ways.

                • FSq

                  Why do you hatesex and genitals?

                  What happened to you to hateyourowngenitals so much?

                  God must have ounished you to make you hateyourgenitals so much.

                • The Other Weirdo

                   In the end, all people have sex for an exchange of one type or another. Money, security, companionship, and any number of other reasons. Even sex for procreation is an exchange.

                • FSq

                  Are you judging? You aren’t supposed to do that lil’ guy…..come on, practice what you pretend to preach vis-a-vis your rule book!

                  Christians are the first to line up and pass judgements and be so arrogant as to believe they have all the answers. 

                  Your entire argument begs the first question which is “is this destructive?” which has not yet been determined. And no, there is no real proof showing causation of violence or mental illness as a result of alternative sexual behaviors. There is a SHIT TON of proof that repressive religious cultures cultivate and breed mental illness, pedophilia, sexual violence and destruction. So, based on proof and study alone, it is the exact opposite; religious people living under a sexually repressive culture are far more likely to develop mental illness, unhealthy sexual deviances and illegal sexual activities.

                  Once again “lawyer”, you lose.

                • Ndonnan

                  Some people must have had sad childhoods eh.Poor Skizz

            • FSq

              Who hurt you? Why are you so angry with rationality and reason? If only you let ration and reason into your heart, and grew a relationship – a personal relationship – with logic, you would find the love in your heart to guide you through this world. You don’t have to be alone anymore. Let go of the hurt and let rationality and reason into your heart. 

              • Rwlawoffice

                This conversation has come to an end, but that is funny.

          • FSq

            Reminds me of Savage’s response to Dick Santorum saying he has issues and he will “pray for him”. Savage went on to say how Santorum is ready to try and micromanage personal sex lives, restrict birth control, eradicate LGBT marriages and such….to which Savage said “and he says I have issues!?! I’ll gay for him while he prays for me and we can call it a draw!”

            I thought that was awesome!

        • FSq

          “destructive sexual morals”

          Prove it. Give actual peer-reviewed and tested hypotheses and conclusions. Don’t go on hearsay or gut-feelings, give PROOF.

          And for a christian, that is an awful big judgement. Isn’t one of your big no-nos judging? Boy oh boy are you striking out today. That is your god’s department, not yours.

          And also, how arrogant of you to presume these are destructive. 

          • Rwlawoffice

             Before you start stating the tenets of Christianity you really should try to get them right. The actual part regarding judging, is judge, lest not you be judged.  It doesn’t say we aren’t to judge others, it says if we do we need to be prepared to be judged as well.

            The harmful and destructive effects of pornography are not hard to find.  There are literally hundreds if not thousands of studies on them. The harm is to marriages, children and society as a whole.

            Here is one for you to start with:

            http://www.internetsafety101.org/upload/file/Social%20Costs%20of%20Pornography%20Report.pdf

            • FSq

              Quick, without resorting to cut-n-paste, tell me, name ONE valid and peer reviewed study. Just one, quick.

              Also, did you read the link/PDF you attached here? For realsies? Have you read it, fully and completely (thanks Gordie for that one)…

              I am guessing no.

              • Rwlawoffice

                 You asked for a study and I gave you one.  Now you complain? I guess you really don’t like proof afterall.

                • FSq

                  Because after I gave it a cursory read I saw that you must not have read it because it does not draw any direct causal relationship between porn and violence. 

                  Again, you lose.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Where did I say porn leads to violence?  I didn’t.  I said it was destructive to  families, children and society just as was found in the study I gave you.  Read the summary of the conclusions where that is pointed out.

                • FSq

                  That does not equal bad for the country, nor does it equal violence or evils for the country. Don’t play a semantic game here, you will lose yet again.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  If you want to continue to defend pornography go right ahead. But the link i gave you has about 60 pages with supporting studies as to why it is harmful on many levels. 

                • FSq

                  Again, you seem to have a lackof comprehension or logic. Where did you get I am defending pornography? I am telling you that you have no empirical leg to stand on in yourassualt and assumption that this is deviant sexual behavior.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   This is in response to your last post below.  I really don’t know if you are intentionally being idiotic or if you really don’t know how to have an honest argument.  You appear to be lost.

              • Anonymous

                Bergen, R. K., & Bogle, K. A. (2000). Exploring the connection between pornography and sexual violence. Violence and Victims, 15(3), 227-34. http://ezproxy.bellevue.edu:80/login?url=http://search.proquest.com/docview/208556419?accountid=28125
                This article examines the relationship between sexual violence and pornography. Data about women’s experiences of sexual violence and their abusers’ use of pornography were collected at a rape crisis center from 100 survivors. Findings include that 28% of respondents reported that their abuser used pornography and that for 12% of the women, pornography was imitated during the abusive incident. The effects of pornography on women’s experiences of sexual violence are discussed.  

              • Anonymous

                Hald, G., Malamuth, N. M., & Yuen, C. (2010). Pornography and attitudes supporting violence against women: revisiting the relationship in nonexperimental studies. Aggressive Behavior, 36(1), 14-20. doi:10.1002/ab.20328

                A meta-analysis was conducted to determine whether nonexperimental studies revealed an association between men’s pornography consumption and their attitudes supporting violence against women. The meta-analysis corrected problems with a previously published meta-analysis and added more recent findings. In contrast to the earlier meta-analysis, the current results showed an overall significant positive association between pornography use and attitudes supporting violence against women in nonexperimental studies. In addition, such attitudes were found to correlate significantly higher with the use of sexually violent pornography than with the use of nonviolent pornography, although the latter relationship was also found to be significant. The study resolves what appeared to be a troubling discordance in the literature on pornography and aggressive attitudes by showing that the conclusions from nonexperimental studies in the area are in fact fully consistent with those of their counterpart experimental studies. This finding has important implications for the overall literature on pornography and aggression.  

                For your reading pleasure. You won’t find direct causality in any research paper (if you know anything about research, you know that already). What you will find in studies about porn and violence is that men who are already violent may become more sexually violent after viewing these examples and that those who are not may sill push their usual limits imitating pornography they have viewed.

            • FSq

              Actually chief, I would wager I know more about the bible and christianity than you do. And yes, I could back this up. 

              And I love the christian cherry-picing and personal interp of the bible and its words. You claim that you are allowed to judge, yet your book claims this as god’s own device.

              Then, you go on to say that sex outside a marriage is “destructive”. How arrogant and how judgemental. And you cannot prove it.

              You are a prime example of the hypocrisy surrounding christianity. And for the life of me I cannot figure out why you hang out and trill around here. Why do you do it? Are you hoping to convert us? If so, how arrogant. Are you trying to learn you enemy? If so, I respect that, but still find it odd that you would chime in and weaken your position, counter to learning the enemy.

              • Rwlawoffice

                I would take that wager.  Matthew 7:1-5 says- “Do not judge or you too will be judged.  For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” (NIV) Tell me how I am cherry picking that verse?  I agree that God is the ultimate judge, but there is nothing in the Bible that says Christians should not stand up for what the Bible teaches as being moral behavior.

                As for why I here- I learn from the posters here and from Hemant. i try to correct misconceptions about Christianity and I try to defend Christians and my faith.  I  don’t try to convert anyone because I know that is a waste of time.

                • FSq

                  Okay, now go back up to one of your posts about three up. 

                  YOU said….YOUR WORDS HERE:

                  “The actual part regarding judging, is judge, lest not you be judged.  ”

                  Now you are saying the OPPOSITE, which is what I had said in the first place; but in the post a few above, you actually came out and said you are supposed to judge, lest you be judged.

                  So which is it? And how do you know that your version of the bible is the right one? Or that your view of that passage is correct?

                  This is a clear-cut case of you contradicting your own silly-self. And it truly is a microcosm of the hypocrisy and idiocy of christians. 

                  And ANSWER THE PASSION of the CHRIST question….would you allow a young child to watch that movie?

                • Rwlawoffice

                  My comment was a shorthand version of that verse. I gave you the whole verse in another post.  As for the Passion movie, I thought it was unnecessarily  bloody. I would think kids should be teenagers before they see it. Its rated R so 17 or 18. There are plenty of other movies about the passion of Christ that get the message out without the violence.   

                • Ndonnan

                  Ditto

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Thank you.

                • Ndonnan

                  dont stop, they need somone to challenge their form of reason and free thinking. Which seems to lack freedom or reason

                • FSq

                  Who hurt you? Why do you hate freedom so much? You are letting the terrorists win. That is anti-god and anti-patriotic. You should be ashamed of yourself.

            • FSq

              Oh yes, I forgot there Stinky McPoopypants,

              Would you allow a child of say, age seven watch Gibson’s “Passion of the Christ”? Age 10? Age 14? Age 18?

              Would you allow a child to watch “Debbie Does Dallas”? Say at age seven? Age 10? Age 14?

              Why and why not?

              That disgusting piece of cinematic torture porn _Gibson’s Passion of the Christ” is exponentially more damaging and gross than anything in a porn like Debbie Does Dallas, yet I am betting almost every christian in christiandumb will make kids younger than seven and up watch that horrid and vile movie, yet freak out if Janet Jackson gives a nip shot during a half-time show.

              Hypocrisy.

              And dangerous. 

              • Rwlawoffice

                Buddy if we are going to have a conversation you are really going to have to stay on topic. 
                 

            • Ndonnan

              Ha you really stirred up this little bunch eh,its them who feel threatned like the little bees they are.BBBbzzzzzzzz

            • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

              You said “judge, lest not you be judged.”

              Oh, the sweet savory smell of the irony in that typo.

              • Rwlawoffice

                Really not a typo.  I was just completing the rest of the verse that most people, christians and skeptics alike tend to ignore. 

                • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

                  Really? I’ve never heard it said without some form of “lest ye be judged.” Ever. And that’s a lot of Christian years and then a lot of atheist years.

            • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

              You accidentally provided a link to a list of things Christians and their silly institutions believe.

              But to your credit, it’s a PDF. Oh, and there are citations, so that’s good. Although…hey! They’re citing articles! Was that supposed to be a study or a one-dimensional literature survey?

              And the articles cited are written by themselves (The Witherspoon Institute) and their Christian buddy institutions.If “Family” is in the name, chances are it’s a dishonest and dangerous institution.

              • Rwlawoffice

                 I am assuming that you did not read the article.  Take a look at the signatories at the end to see who agreed with it.  Also here is a summary of who they are from the article:

                Finally, the concurrence of the signatories gathered here is all the more
                significant because of their diversity. Every major shade of religious belief is
                represented, from atheism and agnosticism to Christianity, Judaism, and
                Islam. Both the left and the right in American politics are represented,
                including social conservatism and contemporary feminism. A unique range
                of professional specialties also is represented, among them economics,
                medicine, psychiatry, psychology, philosophy, sociology, journalism, and law.
                Such broad agreement is rare on any subject. “at it exists on the subject
                of contemporary pornography and its social costs is eloquent testimony to
                what is now known about the problems posed by what has been thought of
                (and is still frequently thought of ) as a harmless and victimless pursuit.

                • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

                  Damn you for making me look closer! :-)

                  OK, at first I thought the signatories were just signing off on the recommendations, not the whole paper. I was wrong. Looks like they’re signing off on the findings, too, so yes, the whole paper.

                  Of the eight findings, I have no reason to disagree (in general) with findings 1 and 2.

                  I also agree in principle with 3 though 6, pornography can be harmful in certain situations, most notably (just offhand from reading the paper) with respect to  a) porn addiction and b) harm to children. That certainly doesn’t mean outlaw porn, but the message “be responsible with it” is a good one.

                  Finding 7, “Pornography consumption is philosophically and morally problematic,” is weak and weakly supported. That’s a hard one to prove. It sure didn’t convince me.

                  Finding 8 is even weaker.

                  Nonetheless, my initial reaction itself was also weak. Hilarious, but week. I sincerely apologize.

                  Andy
                  (OK, only hilarious to me.) 

        • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

          “…then as a Christian…” zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzz

    • Guest

       And if you want to reinforce the stereotype that porn and sex are evil and bad and you should feel guilty about actually liking such a thing, then carry on.

      I’ll be over here, reassuring people that they don’t have to feel guilty about a perfectly natural urge.

    • FSq

      Hey “lawyer”….are you familiar with the “golden rule”? You know, that little clause that got co-opted by christians and put into your great big book of rules and magic known as the bible?

      You know, it is the the rule enunciated by Jesus that people call the Golden rule that reads: “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you,” Jesus said, “do ye even so to them…” (Matt. 7: 12).

      Yes, that one. Okay, so two things here. 

      1) You are passing these huge judgements and advocating discrimination and the micro-managing of private personal lives.

      2) If you are a true christian, you must adhere to what your long-haired imaginary friend Jesus said. 

      3) You must either want to be discriminated and micromanaged by others yourself, or your whole ideology is founded on faulty logic.

      You lose.

      • Rwlawoffice

         You don’t have to agree with my assessment of pornography. You are free to do as you wish.  Just as I am free and well within the tenets of my faith to point out that Christianity teaches that sexual behavior outside the boundaries of the marriage between a man and a woman is immoral.  Your opinion is clearly different than that and that is your right.

        • FSq

          You said:

          “Just as I am free and well within the tenets of my faith to point out that Christianity teaches that sexual behavior outside the boundaries of the marriage between a man and a woman is immoral.”

          You are absolutely correct. However, what you CANNOT do is tell the rest of us that you have the answer for how we are to live. You do NOT get to try and dictate or micro-manage the sex lives of others. You do NOT get to politicize your archaic views of sex to the detriment of others. And that is what you advocate, making you a dangerous and oppressive force. And that is not alright. It makes you the enemy of decency and freedom.

          • Rwlawoffice

            Please point where I have said anything like that?  I specifically said that you can live your life however you want.  If we are going to have a discussion please read what I write.

            • FSq

              Why do you hate freedom?

              And answer the question about Passion of the Christ. Would you allow a young child to watch that movie?

        • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

          Then again, in the Bible a marriage can be between one man and his sister. (Just read the first few chapters.)

          Also, in the Bible a marriage can be between one woman and her rapist.

          …and between one man and a girl he rapes after killing her brother, father, mother, and slutty sister. (Numbers 31).

          So…I for one am not interested in anything Christianity has to say about marriage.

          • Rwlawoffice

             Really, using selective portions of the Old Testament Bible is not a persuasive argument that the Bible is not a good source of instruction on marriage. 

            • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

              What portions would you select?

              • Rwlawoffice

                I obviously believe that it is a great source of instruction for your marriage.  You could start with the scriptires that discuss how a man is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. You could then study the those that discuss not comitting adultry or lusting after another woman along with the stories about the harm that comes when you do that.  

                • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

                  As Christ loved the Church? There wasn’t even a “Church” when Jesus was alive. Besides, what kind of marital instruction is that? What does it mean?

                  Yep. Adultery and lusting after another woman are wrong – if your wife says so, not the Bible. 

                • FSq

                  I can just picture Jesus ass fucking the church from behind, in the gas intake hose or something.

                  I wonder how Jesus goes down on the church though, that one puzzles me. 

                  But that churchy love is something else. 

                • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

                  Nah. He’s got people for that. They’re called Televangelists.

                • Rwlawoffice

                   The verse is Ephesians 5:25-27. Paul is teaching that that is how a husband should love his wife- completely, selflessly, and sacrificially.

            • FSq

              Oh this argument again. Haven’t you idiots learned that you cannot cherry pick or claim that one section is worthy but another is not?

              You are so idiotic my face is bruising from the palm slaps I have to keep self-inflicting on myself.

              Then again, if your goal was to get me to self-harm, you won.

              I may even start cutting again….I hope you are proud of yourself.

    • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

      As a Christian zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Jj

    I understand that this campaign draws huge crowds. It is a great marketing technique. This is essentially equivalent to the methods of  many radio personalities like Howard Stern, Rush Limbaugh, Don Imus, etc… I think that if you want to further the atheist cause handing out texts that explain your views would be better. If porn is so good, then please let me know when you show it to your kid for sex education or watch it on movie night with the family.

    • FSq

      “If porn is so good, then please let me know when you show it to your kid for sex education or watch it on movie night with the family.”

      Okay, how about right after you finish up teaching advanced calculus to your seven year old or right after you serve gin and tonics or scotch and sodas to your eight year old.

      The point? No one said porn is a fine thing to show children anymore than you would serve booze to kindergarten classes. BAD logic there pal.

  • Tex

    I think we can assume the target audience is college students, and Im fairly certain this is a really effective way to engage with them.  I see the point that in the larger scheme this might do harm by upsetting the general public, and I agree that might do some harm to the atheist movement outside the college environment.  But if the general public isnt the target and its as effective as it seems to be with the target audience I think it might be worth it.  Personally Im not convinced its doing any more harm than some of the billboard adds and if it brings more of the younger generation into the movement, well us young people are the future right?

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/FDGYHBEWVNGUG763L5X4TON3JQ Nazani14

    Commercial porn has its own destructive mythology.  And,  it’s terribly overpriced. If they handed out some factual manual on how to have a good sex life that would be better.

  • AV

    They’re obviously not targeting asexuals, but we’re a pretty tiny minority so that’s nothing new. If I was in a college group running that kind of campaign, I’d probably leave the group tbh.

    I’ve seen more and more atheism blogs and sites focusing way too much on the sex aspect of things. Sure, religions use it to guilt and control people. Yeah, it should be discussed. But it’s not the only issue. It’s not the core of atheism. The massive focus on it seems incredibly weird. Smut campaigns like this just make it look like atheism=porn.

    It’s not appealing (to me, at least).

    • Guest

       I think the huge focus on it is because for most people, it’s a pretty big part of life. (I think? I don’t know. I’m not particularly interested in it myself.) So it’s good for drawing attention and gaining interest, which is basically step 1.

      It’s also the best example of how religion uses completely natural urges to control people. Many churches are very controlling, and its members don’t even see it. But to see a bunch of atheists, talking about how free and awesome their sex lives are? Well, maybe some people will start to rethink. Maybe some people will secretly be incredibly thankful that they’re *not* the only one to be thinking these ‘sinful’ thoughts, that other people *don’t* think that they’re going to hell just for enjoying sex and porn, and to see perfectly normal people, acting as though these thoughts are also perfectly normal (because they are).

      And maybe they’ll start to think that the church is wrong about its views on sex. And once they start thinking that, maybe they’ll start branching out. Maybe some of the ‘casual’ Christians will realize that they don’t actually like church rules, and start identifying as atheist.

      I mean, okay, that’s an awful lot of maybes. But for a target audience of college students, I think it’s spot on.

    • Anonymous

      If the religious hasn’t been so hung up about sex, do you think atheists would have focused on it so much?

      • Ndonnan

        People are the ones hung up otherwise atheists should have amazing sex lives…….its a sore point for so many isnt it.You can blame religion all you like,its you,your just not the stud or hotti you would like to be.

        • FSq

          Yup. You got it. We are all impotent, sexual frustrated people. For me, I am so angry that the priest never stuck it to me….it has dogged me all these years. I mean, even though I was an atheist kid during church school, that is no reason for the priest to pass me by on his molestation rounds….it has made me the way I am….

  • Anonymous

    I still think my holy books have more cultural value than run of the mill pornography, even if I don’t believe in them. 

    Plus as an atheist I wouldn’t want a lot of the porn I was handing out to represent me in any way. I don’t believe pornography as a rule exploits people, but it easily can be ugly and abusive.

    It’s a loaded question though since for some in the BDSM community certain kinds of abuse are a consensual kink.  It’s a complicated issue, and I think they could have maintained the same kind of humorous shock value without compromising their own values.

    As a burlesque photographer I would have gladly provided pin-up style material (including nudity if they wanted it) for an event like this.

    • http://andybreeden.com Andy Breeden

      Just don’t let your holy books fall into the wrong hands.

      • Anonymous

         do they have trigger locks and gun safes for old bibles?

  • Anonymous

    Yeesh. What did the sacrifice for the attention? Nothing, as far as I can see.

    You over think this and seem to be *this far” from setting your hair on fire. I wish more groups traded bibles for porn.  It makes a very big point and puts the literal reading of the  bible in the center of the controversy.  Where it should be.

  • http://thefloatinglantern.wordpress.com/ Tim Martin

    Well, this is a bit surprising. As I was reading Hemant’s negative take on this campaign from last year, I thought “You know, he might be right.” After all he has a lot of experience with this sort of thing.

    Then I read Atheist Agenda’s rebuttal, in which they describe evidence that their campaign was actually working. And I thought “Well I guess Hemant’s going to change his tune, now that his hypothesis has been falsified.”

    But he didn’t. And that surprised me. If he’s going to continue to object, it would at least be fair to provide some evidence for his side, now that the Atheist Agenda has provided some of theirs. It seems disrespectful to continue to oppose AA’s event by saying “I think this is bad” without supporting that statement in any way.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

      I don’t doubt they’re getting new people to join their group or raising awareness of their group. They may very well be doing both of those.

      What I’m saying — and what no one can really get numbers for — is that there are probably atheists out there who want nothing to do with a group that runs an event like this, people who walk away from their table instead of approaching them. If they were on my campus, I don’t think I would join up. Based on the comments online, it seems like many others share that feeling.

      • http://thefloatinglantern.wordpress.com/ Tim Martin

        Perhaps you’re right. I still can’t shake the feeling that your argument is a little weak to justify criticizing a group that is working hard to make a difference…
        In any case, I will continue thinking on it. Thanks for the reply.

  • James Wood

    Sooooo, can any athiests prove that God does not exist??  I know many people that can proove that Jesus our Lord exists.  Athiests may not love God, but God loves all.  Just think… Can you proove that God doesnt exist?

  • Confuzzled poster

    Uhm, I’m pretty sure this is counter productive to their message.  They just look like assholes.


CLOSE | X

HIDE | X