Once Again, Dennis Markuze/David Mabus Has Been Arrested

***Update***: Tim Farley has an extensive writeup of everything that happened in this case. Read his writeup here.

In August of 2011, notorious death-threat-spammer-of-atheists Dennis Markuze (a.k.a. David Mabus) was arrested by police in Montreal, Canada.

Then, this past June, he was essentially set free, provided that he no longer “[participate] in a social network, blog and discussion forum.”

But as anyone who’s a public atheist on Twitter might tell you, that wasn’t the case. Markuze quickly resumed his old ways of sending online threats to multiple people (including me). Behind the scenes, many of us sent Tim Farley (who has done a remarkable job cataloguing all of this) evidence of Markuze in action, taking screenshots of his comments with IP addresses and things like that.

Earlier today, the Montreal police arrested Markuze… again:

A Saint-Laurent man has been charged, again, with abusing social media to threaten people who express their views online.

Dennis Markuze, 40, faces three new charges, including one alleging he violated the conditions of a sentence he received in May for the same offence. He was also charged with threatening the Montreal police officer who was investigating claims from several of Markuze’s past victims. Those victims alleged that Markuze’s threats have intensified in recent months.

This guy needs serious psychological help. But at least for the time being, he won’t be harassing anybody. Let’s hope the police drop the hammer on him — or else the next time Markuze takes action, it could be far more serious in nature.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • http://twitter.com/xmaseveeve xmaseveeve

    I got a few of his strange tweets recently. Scary guy.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    Reason number 1834 why I have my concealed firearms permit.

  • http://www.theaunicornist.com Mike D

    Ticking time bomb, or harmless nutcake? 

  • machintelligence

    Ticking time bomb, or harmless nutcake?

    Classic false dichotomy — A major league nuisance at best.
    I have had no direct contact with the man, but I was at the 2010  AAI convention in Montreal when he tripped the hotel fire alarm.

  • http://twitter.com/rjblaskiewicz Bob Blaskiewicz

    He was released tonight after agreeing not to contact certain people. It’s at the end of the most recent Gazette article. Harumph.

  • Cantdog

    It seems like overreaction when you first hear the story, but many of these people have a lot of genuine rage, what they might call righteous rage.  None of us can afford to just laugh off all of these folks. 

  • http://twitter.com/rlrose328 Kerri Russ

    That is unbelievable.  If it were one of us threatening someone of faith, we’d be nailed to the… um… we’d be busted and not let off with a warning and agreement.  He didn’t follow the previous formal agreement, why should he this time?  They’ve proven he cannot NOT harass and threaten people.  What bull.

  • TheExpatriate700

    Sounds like you might be the one we should be worried about.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    Yes, let the world worry about a law abiding citizen who had to take a 3 day NRA firearm safety course. Pass a written and range test to show I’m competent with a firearm and then I had to fill out a 10 page application which gave my local police department permission to look deep into my past but you are worried about me.


  • Stephen

     That’s not entirely likely. These are Canadian courts, which are much different than American ones. Release on bail is far more likely for all kinds of offenses. Unless someone has a truly exceptionally violent history -actual violence and not just threats alone- combined with many breaches and failures to appear for court, then they will likely be released. I actually don’t think he’s been given any lenience for his target victims.

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

    Yeah, like that’ll last.

  • Gribblethemunchkin

    Actually, yeah, i’d be worried about you. You’ve acquired a lethal weapon with the intent of using it to kill people you feel threatened by. Mabus may talk shit and might one day turn violent but to date is all mouth no trousers. You’ve actually gone and got a gun, thats a step further. You then stated that you have acquired the gun AND a concealed carry permit and one of the reasons is to protect yourself from Mabus’s.
    Its probably the concealed carry permit that really gets me. Why do you feel the need to carry a gun in public? What precisely are you so scared of that you feel you need a lethal weapon with you? I could understand this if you lived in some wartorn and lawless place, but you live in Maine.
    I don’t mean to launch into an antigun rant, as a Brit it doesn’t affect me in the slightest, but the casual way in which the gun debate dehumanises people and legitimises the idea of killing so easily really makes me despair.

  • Trickster Goddess

     “Law abiding citizen” means nothing. There are thousands of law abiding citizens with guns who are just one heated argument away from being criminals with guns.

  • Trickster Goddess

    Reason number 1835 I’m glad for Canada’s gun laws: if Markuze lived in Maine, he would probably have a gun, too.

  • RobertoTheChi

    Agreed. Gotta love that christian privilege…

  • The Godless Monster

    An irrational attack and a seriously shitty thing to say to someone you know next to nothing about. That the mere thought of firearms makes you wet your pants with fear doesn’t man that those who legally carry them are to be feared.

  • The Godless Monster

     Typo: “doesn’t man” should be “doesn’t mean”

  • The Godless Monster

     If he carried a firearm without a permit would you feel better? Your argument is idiotic at best.

  • The Godless Monster

     Really? Give proof. Direct me to studies that back what you just spewed. I’ve been physically attacked while  carrying a pistol and chose not to pull it. OI didn’t even threaten to pull it. The attacker had no clue I was armed. Am I so unique? I think not…

  • The Godless Monster

    “I was at the 2010  AAI convention in Montreal when he tripped the hotel fire alarm.”

    Would he have been only a nuisance if someone had been injured or killed as a result of evacuating in a hurry after the alarm being pulled? There’s a reason it’s against the law in the US to falsely cry “fire” in a movie theater.

  • Trickster Goddess


    doesn’t man that those who legally carry them are to be feared.

    I think it is a case of Schrodinger’s gun-toter. I don’t know if that man carrying gun is carrying it legally or not. Either way, if I see someone coming toward me with a deadly weapon, my survival instincts err on the side of fear.

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

    Also known as “self-preservation”.

  • The Godless Monster

     What are you blabbering on about? If a man is carrying a concealed weapon how would you know unless he pulled it out and brandished it or told you he was carrying?
    OF COURSE you would be afraid if you saw a man waving a gun about! I’m a combat vet and I’ve been shot at , stabbed etc. and I feel fear when I see someone pull a weapon. That’s just normal. Anyone who doesn’t feel fear is either crazy or dead. Schrodinger’s gun-toter? Jesus H. Fucking Christ, now I’ve heard it all.

  • The Godless Monster


    “You’ve acquired a lethal weapon with the intent of using it to kill people you feel threatened by.”

    What a load of horseshit. First, you don’t know this man, so to make a statement like that about his character is wrong…plain and simple. You owe him an apology. Secondly, the idea of a concealed carry permit is to have an adequate means of defense if attacked with deadly force.
    Also, a rhetorical question to all of those who wring their hands and piss themselves over the thought of responsible adults having the means to defend themselves.
    Do you have or carry any form of insurance? Life? auto? General liability? Think of legal firearms ownership as just another form of insurance. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  • Cindy

    The Montreal police tweets who it arrests?

  • Cindy

    whom, rather

  • Trickster Goddess


    If a man is carrying a concealed weapon how would you know

    Which makes the Schrodinger’s gun-toter analogy even more apt: if people are allowed to carry concealed guns, then anyone coming toward me might have a deadly weapon even if I can’t see it.

  • The Godless Monster

     And? Any hot looking woman walking towards me might be packing more meat than me because she is actually a transvestite. There’s no problem with being cautious, but to insist that others live and act as you do because you choose to live your life in fear is obnoxious.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rocky-Morrison/100001552602936 Rocky Morrison

    Nonsense, there is an atheist who threatened Christians on a KC Star blog and no one who do anything.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rocky-Morrison/100001552602936 Rocky Morrison

    There is an atheist group in KC called “the Godless Pistol Waivers”.

    But don’t worry, its all about safety.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rocky-Morrison/100001552602936 Rocky Morrison

    All the liberal gun control freaks fold pretty quick, don’t they?

    By the way, you analogy is Willfully Stupid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rocky-Morrison/100001552602936 Rocky Morrison

    Go to KansasCity Star.com.

    An old guy just shot a man after an argument at the Chiefs game.  Admittedly, the Chiefs suck, but he went to far.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rocky-Morrison/100001552602936 Rocky Morrison

    Godless monster, your anecdotal evidence is not evidence.

    And I think you are lying anyway.

  • jdm8

    “Actually, yeah, i’d be worried about you. You’ve acquired a lethal
    weapon with the intent of using it to kill people you feel threatened

    I understand your concern, but the stats I’ve seen didn’t support the idea that a legal concealed weapon owner is dangerous to the public.

    About eleven years ago, Michigan changed their concealed weapon licensing system so a lot more people can acquire one, anyone with the training, without a criminal history and passing the training.  The predicted mayhem of having a hundred thousand or so CCW owners simply didn’t happen.

  • The Godless Monster

     It’s Wavers, not Waivers. I saw nothing in any of their postings to indicate that they are anything but safe. The name they chose for their group is proof positive that not all atheists are rational or intelligent.

  • The Godless Monster

     “By the way, you analogy is Willfully Stupid.”
    Yeah, in reading it after I wrote it, I wholeheartedly agree. Not one of my brighter moments.
    Of course, not all liberals are gun control freaks. I’m a liberal. Also, if ALL guns could suddenly be magically taken away from everyone, I’d be all for it.

  • jdm8

    A lot of rifles are legal in Canada.

  • Glenndavey83

     We don’t have those kinds of laws here in Australia. You know how many people get shot each year? Like, 2 or 3… or some ridiculously small figure.

    Guns are cause the very problem they are supposed to solve.

    Not really that rational… Kinda more closer to the definition of ‘insanity’.

  • The Godless Monster

     Anecdotal evidence is not proof, it is evidence.
    I’m lying? If it makes you feel brave to make that accusation while safe in your mommy’s basement, go for it. Nobody here really gives a shit what anyone here thinks anyway and that includes you.

  • The Godless Monster

    That’s not a study. Yep, you really thought that one through…

  • The Godless Monster

     It would be great if all firearms were to magically disappear from the face of the planet. but the genie is out of the bottle here in the United States.
    There’s no denying that it is a bad situation here…I’ll even go with your definition of insanity. It’s just that if I want to offer protection to myself and my family, my options are shaped by the reality of the environment I live in.

  • The Godless Monster

     Yes, including the Kel-Tec Sub2000 folding carbine. Very concealable, even in its longer barreled Canadian configuration.

  • Silver_fox-trot

    Yeah, but just having some kind of vehicle insurance on me doesn’t mean that I’ll kill someone with it. And don’t go saying I could kill someone with a car.

    A car is primariy used as a means of transportation, it’s potential use as a murder weapon is secondary to its function of a to b.

    A gun is a dangerous weapon whose primary function is to hurt and/or kill anyone that the weilded /thinks/ is a danger to him.

    If you want to use it as an intimidation tactic; to say, “do ‘t fu k with me or I will blow your brains out!” Then concealing it defeats the purpose of it.

    If you really want to defend yourself, learn a martial art or something! They teach things like control and have the side affect not being potential deadly to innocent bystanders.

    I’d much rather give someone a concussion who I ghink is threatening me than trying to shoot someone and end up hitting the person behind them.

    Or, you know, you can use the patented Canadian Solution and Talk about the problem? You’d be surprised how easy situations become when people aren’t trying to kill each other!

  • Trickster Goddess

    As a trans woman I take great umbrage at your analogy.

    So, like, fuck you asshole.

  • The Godless Monster

     What a smug and pompous post. You seem to have all the answers. Typical for someone who knows nothing of what they speak.
    I’m a former use of force instructor (hand-to-hand, firearms disarming, etc) stateside in the U.S.
    After that, I worked as a consultant for a Department of Defense contractor who developed a subject control system based on their proprietary combat fighting course.
    After 9/11 I worked as a private military contractor doing force protection for U.S. operators who were advising friendly troops.
    May I ask what your background is in war fighting, defensive tactics, firearms disarmament techniques and personnel security?

  • The Godless Monster

     My experience has been that those who are opposed to the right to adequate self-defense aren’t going to be swayed by facts under any circumstances. They have their opinions based on ideology and emotion and you’re not going to breach that barrier. Note how the first comment of Expatriate700 went straight into an ad hominem attack on Kevin of Bangor. No evidence, no stats, no reasoned, well-thought-out argument. Straight to a personal attack.

  • The Godless Monster

    Mea culpa, my bad. It wasn’t meant as a disparaging remark against trans people. If you took it that way, I apologize. My point is that not everything or everybody is 100% transparent or is what it seems to be. It was a poor analogy and a stupid and insensitive one.

  • http://profiles.google.com/julielada Julie Lada

     P.S. Transvestites are generally straight men wearing women’s clothing. And they are typically very obviously men because their intent is not to become women, but merely they feel more confident and sexy in women’s clothing. Think a guy standing next to you in the grocery store wearing a skirt and heels, but still very obviously a man.

    Just saying, get your terminology correct. Or better yet, don’t casually toss sexual identity around so cheaply.

  • The Godless Monster

     I’ve had two trans friends and both were butt ugly and obviously guys. I knew another, however, that did NOT look like a guy and in fact, looked better than most women.  That still doesn’t make my analogy right.
    As far as tossing around “sexual identity so cheaply”, you’re right. Bad form on my part and insensitive to others, not to mention stupid.

  • CultOfReason

    Don’t know what the rules are in Maine where Kevin_of_Bangor is from, but in many states with carry permit laws, you need a carry permit to even own a gun, even if you have no intent on carrying it.

    And to Kevin’s point, people have a right to defend themselves.  It’s not the law abiding gun holders that follow the law that you need to worry about.  It’s the ones that don’t follow the rules.

  • Spike5022

    Life? No.Auto? -It’s a legal requirement if you own (even if you don’t drive) a car in the UK, and I do. General liability? It is required by my mortgage company. So basically if I don’t need it , I don’t get it.

  • IndyFitz

    Same here!  Might be closer to Reason #1 than Reason #1834, though.

  • IndyFitz

    I was going to reply to TheExpatriate700′s uninformed post, but you’ve done it nicely.

  • IndyFitz

    Wow. What a completely uninformed and blinders-on viewpoint.  Kevin and I are both in Maine.  Let me tell you about just one little example…

    A couple of years ago, a young couple was leaving a club and walking to their car.  They were mugged by a group of guys who felt the need to pull out knives and attack the young man, even though he was cooperating.  They stabbed him to death there on the street while his fiancee watched.

    Clearly, if he’d had a gun, he would have been justified defending himself.  Your stance indicates that his only responsibility was to let those men kill him… what, because two wrongs don’t make a right?  Pardon my language, but fuck that.

    As the old saying goes, outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns.  Could not be truer.

    Let’s see what happens if, some night, you’re attacked by a knife-wielding maniac who tries to end your life.  I’d bet anything you’d be wishing you had a gun on you at that moment… or else you’re willing to lay down your life for the murderous thief, which puts you solidly in the “crazy” column, IMHO.

  • IndyFitz

    Yeah, Canadians have ALL the answers.  Because if you all agree to talk about it, I’m sure that when you lay down your arms the criminals will surely do the very same, and engage in such lively conversation!

  • IndyFitz


  • Philbert

    “I don’t mean to launch into an antigun rant, as a Brit it doesn’t affect me in the slightest, but the casual way in which the gun debate dehumanises people and legitimises the idea of killing so easily really makes me despair.”

    But it’s OK to presume that any gun owner is borderline psychotic and itching to kill anyone who looks at them wrong. Nothing dehumanizing there.

  • IndyFitz

    So that means we shouldn’t be allowed to carry them to defend against those crazies who are ready to shoot us because they’re nuts?  So just because I have a concealed-carry permit, I’m one argument away from shooting someone?  So ban all guns because everyone will be safer?  And if we ban them, the criminals will turn their guns in?  I think the bad guys will have guns or find ways to kill people regardless.  I’m comfortable knowing that if someone decides to invade my home with the intention of harming me or my wife that it will be the last home he invades.  That’s not insane-gun-carrying-guy talk; it’s just the truth.

  • IndyFitz

    Excellent point.  I was accosted by three guys who were picking a fight, and I never drew.  I never let them know I was carrying.  Had they pulled knives, I’d have drawn.  Had they pulled guns, I’d have drawn and shot.  This is a game, and there are rules.  Try to kill me, and you get killed. Threaten me, and you’ll know I won’t take any more of it.  But just because someone comes up to me on the street and tries to pick a fight doesn’t mean I’m drawing and firing.  I’m not sure why these people have this firm belief that all gun-carrying people are nuts just itching to shoot someone.  I know I’m not.  But good luck to anyone who threatens my life.

  • machintelligence

    My point was that “harmless nutcake” was an understatement. He is a major league nuisance at best and a menace to society at worst, 
    with plenty of gradations in between.

  • The Other Weirdo

     Yeah, there’s a lot of talking going on in Dartmouth and Halifax and even Toronto. In Halifax, street shootings occur so often, the police have taken a page from Buffy the Vampire Slayer where newspapers used to add “Monsters definitely not involved, authorities say” to articles that talked about the latest in monster mayhem. In Halifax, whenever there’s a shooting on the street, they append “This was not a random shooting, say police.” to the newspaper article. In Sunnydale, authorities used to lie all the time. I wonder if they are lying in Halifax, too.

  • Kirby_G

    I’m afraid I’m sounding like one of “those people”, but do you think the press release would have been as bland as “abusing social media to threaten people who express their views online” if he had been an atheist targeting and threatening Christians in this same manner?

  • IndyFitz

    I think you should provide proof that he is lying.

  • Epinephrine

     An anecdote about a situation in which there might have been a better outcome if one of the people had a gun is hardly an endorsement of carrying a gun.  One can come up with many situations in which having a gun could result in a worse result.  Anecdotes aren’t particularly useful for this type of discussion. 

  • Epinephrine

     Yeah, your anecdote about not having pulled a gun is SO much better. 

  • Thackerie

     What you talking about??? This is obviously a thread all about gun control (yawn).

    Seriously, though, thanks for getting back on topic, even if it’s only temporary. I was about to leave this thread due to boredom. Now I guess I might as well trudge through to the end.

  • The Other Weirdo

     Considering the shootings in Toronto and Halifax, I would say he doesn’t have a gun(assuming he actually doesn’t) only because he doesn’t want one, or doesn’t know where to get one.

  • IndyFitz

    Wow.  Either you’re misleading us or you’re woefully ignorant.  Start here:

    Note this line, properly cited:
    “In the year 2002–2003, over 85% of firearms used to commit murder were unregistered.”

    Then visit FactCheck:

    Obviously there are more guns in the U.S. and more gun carriers, and as such more gun crimes, but it’s not as glossy and perfect and utopian Down Under as you’d have us all believe.  Sorry.

  • IndyFitz

    So if someone is carrying a concealed weapon, how would you know he’s coming toward you with a deadly weapon?

    You could kill someone with a ball-point pen.  So if someone is coming toward you brandishing a pan, what, we should make pens illegal?  I don’t follow the logic.  It sounds like you’re saying “If I feel afraid, then he shouldn’t be able to do it.”  That makes no sense.  You’re justified in feeling afraid, but because you are doesn’t mean society should change.  If that were the case, then if you were afraid of bushy-bearded guys wearing leather jackets and chains, we’d have to make it illegal for them to dress like that and have such facial hair.

  • IndyFitz

    Yes, thank goodness Canada’s law-abiding citizens won’t own guns to defend themselves against crazies like Markuze who could easily end up with one in his hands.  That makes Canada just the perfect place, eh?

  • IndyFitz

    So do you just pick and choose tiny details from all over to support your positions?  Because one group chose a poor name, that makes gun owners all crazy?

    Your line of illogic would be like me saying, “Rocky Morrison must be a boxer, because Rocky Balboa sure was!”  It would also be support for an argument that you are a flying squirrel.

    Plus, you know, there is more to the world than Kansas City.  I know, shocking, but you might want to consider that.

  • The Godless Monster

     The incident I refer to took place in a Meijer parking lot in Oxford, MI. The redneck piece of shit was pissed that I honked my horn and blew past him while he was half in/half out of the fire lane with his big pick-up which, incidentally he p0ulled out in front of me when I had the right of way.
    First he followed me in his vehicle to my parking spot and threatened to kill me, then he began to reach under his seat to pull something out, thought better about it, walked around the back of his truck to confront me face to face and grabbed my shirt with his right hand. I reached over with my right hand, grabbed his hand and introduced his face to the pavement at 100 mph. Told my wife to get back into the car with our baby son and went to the Meijer over in Auburn Hills instead.
    But then again, I’m probably just making this shit up…

  • The Godless Monster

     Yes, actually it is. Now provide me with a study to prove that concealed gun carrying produces maniacs or STFU.

  • Yotey

    I have a concealed carry permit in Maine, and have taken it a step farther and take yearly handgun self defense courses. I have no intention of killing anyone, and I mainly obtained the permit to simply things when I travel to the range. I like target shooting for fun and stress relief, and sometimes have to do predator control and the like in conservation work. It is more complicated then you are making it out to be. Obtaining a gun is not the same as intent to kill a human being. I have a permit but I never carry a handgun in public unless I have a work reason to, though I do keep one in a special gun safe just in case of break ins. I live in a household that is just me and a female roommate (I am also female) and we have had male intruders before. In the first case they ran off as soon as we turned off the lights, but if they hadn’t, we would have been in big trouble. If the situation came up, yes, I would pull my gun on a stranger in my house, and if nesscary I am prepared to shoot them to save myself and my housemate. That is not my primary goal in obtaining a permit, and it does not make me a murder-to be. 

  • The Godless Monster

     One of the problems in discussing this subject is the abysmal lack of knowledge ON BOTH SIDES of the debate in regards to the basics of human physical conflict.
    One thing I will say that I am not keen on in regards to concealed carry by average citizens is that the average citizen does not have the appropriate level of training and skill to deal with intermediate threats. By that, I mean they are not equipped to deal with less than deadly force situations and there MAY…MAY be an instinctive response that could result in an unnecessary (and illegal) fatality.
    As a use of force instructor, I developed a proprietary Force Continuum that my students and clients used to determine the correct response to a perceived or real threat.
    While I’m firmly on the side of those who promote the right to defend oneself, I’m not a big fan of what passes for concealed carry permit training here in Michigan.
    At the end of the class, my instructor came up to me and said, “I know this is weird, but thanks, I learned a lot from you.”  This does not inspire confidence in the system, to say the least.
    The background check is adequate, but nowhere near as rigorous as those I went through for my defense contractor gigs. It would be nice if they dug a little deeper.
    I’d like to see a greater emphasis placed on shoot-don’t shoot scenarios for starters and at least one or two hours spent discussing non-lethal means of defense.
    Yes, the overall cost of getting a permit might double, but I’d gladly fork out the money.

  • Yotey

    Let me tell you, I have had people come into my home before. I like in a college town and the apartments are not secure, and there is not a lot I can do about it. My roommate and I (both female) have had men come into our home before through a broken window. Luckily they were just drunks who thought this was their place, and they scattered as soon as we turned on the lights. It could have been worse, and we would have been unable to defend ourselves well, neither of us are well trained or very large. Those two men could have over powered us if they were so inclined.

    Learning a martial art is so simple is it? To be truly effective you must train for years, and have a strong dedication and put in time and effort. For some it is worth it, but for us, we simply do not have the means to pay for lessons or the time to become effective at them.  Becoming a ninja is a wildly impractical home defense strategy.

    Yes, talking is better, anyone would say that, but if a person is in my home, coming through my door and clearly trying to kill or rape me, I think we are long past negotiations. Chances are that will never happen, and I will only use my gun skills for work (ecology, predator control, darting, perhaps law enforcement in the future) and sometimes play/sustenance  (hunting, skeet shooting, stationary target shooting). I hope that I never, ever have to raise a gun to another person, ever. I do not relish the thought or look foreword to it. However I am a selfish human being, and if it ever comes down to them or me in my bedroom, it is going to be them if I have any means.

  • The Godless Monster


    “So basically if I don’t need it , I don’t get it.”

    I carry and own firearms because I perceive a potential need for them. Not probable, just possible.
    If I didn’t, I wouldn’t own guns, plain and simple. Surely you are not implying that others are not fit to determine their own needs?

  • The Godless Monster

    “Anecdotes aren’t particularly useful for this type of discussion.

    There are countless examples of criminals being deterred or otherwise stopped from executing deadly attacks because their intended victims had access to firearms.
    A simple search of YouTube will bear me out as well as a 3 second Google search or a cursory look at the NRA’s “The Armed Citizen” archives.
    Again, show us the facts. Direct us all to multiple studies that back your assertions. Simply dismissing real life examples isn’t going to convince anyone that isn’t already in your corner.

  • The Godless Monster

     Interesting how you twisted IndyFitz’s words,

    “Clearly, if he’d had a gun, he would have been justified defending himself. “


    “…there might have been a better outcome if one of the people had a gun…”

    There’s clearly a huge difference between what he said and what you claimed he said.
    He gave an example of what he thought would be justifiable self defense. You countered with claiming that he stated there would have been a better outcome. Of course, a better outcome might be implied, but that was not the argument he was making.
    Can you offer a counter argument  to what he stated or not?

  • amycas

     Why is your anecdote better than theirs? I don’t think either is really good evidence for either side, but you can’t dismiss an anecdote and then use one yourself. That smells like hypocrisy.

  • amycas

     That’s pretty much how I feel about the issue, but you’re able to explain it so much better.

  • Trickster Goddess

     I accept your apology.


    My point is that not everything or everybody is 100% transparent or is what it seems to be.

    you are still buying into the hurtful narrative that trans people are deceivers and are hiding who they ‘really’ are. Please give some thought to that.

    And just to be pedantic, a cross dresser in no more concealing their “meat” than you are with your pants. ;-)

  • JohnnieCanuck

    Not apropo of much, but Quebec is probably the most secular place in North America, these days. They’ve moved a long way from when the Catholic church had its fingers in everything.

  • The Godless Monster

     Excellent points. This has been a humbling learning experience for me. Thank you.

  • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

    In the United States of America the police are under no obligation to protect your life. None, nada, zippo. With that said you know very little about people that carry. We do not go around looking to harm anyone or play hero. Most of us have a very high level of situational awareness and will do our best to remove our self from an area before a situation escalates.

    As for me carrying a firearm in public, you would never know it, hence the word concealed. I could be wearing nothing but a t-shirt and shorts, even have my shirt tucked into my shorts and you would never know I’m armed but then again, that is how we like it.

    I also have zero desire to kill anyone but being that I have worked in law enforcement I do know what it is like to point a loaded firearm at someone and trust me, it is not a fun feeling to do so. Thankfully I have never had to squeeze the trigger and I hope it stays that way.

  • Pedro Lemos

    So it´s ok if you kill someone with your bare hands, instead of using a gun?