Christian Pastor: Feminists Really Just Want a Man to Put Them in Their Place

I was going to stop watching sermons by our friend Pastor Steven Anderson of the Faithful Word Baptist Church in Tempe, Arizona. But then I saw that the subject of his most recent talk was 1 Corinthians 14… and that’s the part of the Bible that includes this verse:

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

And since Anderson isn’t exactly known for his appreciation of women, I had to listen. And transcribe. And share with all of you because I know how much you love it.

So let’s just skip to the 49:43 mark where the relevant portion begins…

After making a point about how men and women are different, much like an apple and orange, and how he would never say men are better than women, he lets his true feelings shine at the 52:17 mark:

When it comes to authority, there is no equality. You say, “How does your home run?” A dictatorship. Any questions? It’s a monarchy, okay? Mono. One boss. Okay? That’s how my home is run. That’s how every biblical home is run, by the way, okay? And you say, “Oh, your wife must hate you!” No, women love that. Because they were born to fill that role. Just like I was born to be the husband and the leader, my wife was born to be the wife and to be submissive and subject to me. And she’s gonna be most happier doing what God created her to do, just like I’m going to be most happy doing what God created me to do!

And, you know, you say, “Well, that’s not true, because I talk to all these women that are just, you know, they just want to be a feminist and stuff…” You know what? Here’s what I’ve found over the years: The women who are screaming the loudest that they want to be a feminist and that they don’t want a man telling them what to do, on the inside, are really screaming the loudest, please tell me what to do. Please put me in my place. And, you know what? If you don’t believe that? You’re just ignorant. It’s that simple.

And, yeah, I’m sure that there are some reprobate lesbians out there that have a different view. But let me tell you something: A normal woman, on the inside, wants to follow a leader. She wants to follow a husband. She wants a man there that she can look up to, not look down on…

And so ends another chapter of Pastor Steven Anderson, Alpha Manly Leader Man.

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • JA

    Ahh patriarchy…always good for a laugh.

  • Christian von Kietzell

    Woah! Why is a guy like him allowed in any position of authority? Why hasn’t his congregation shrunk down to zero members?

    • Derrik Pates

      Because he’s just saying what’s in the bible, so clearly he’s right. Right?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000328872774 Errol Mcinnes

      because his congregation are a bunch of nutcase rednecks who arrive to church with wives that have black eyes and they carry handguns strapped to their belts. They can usually be seen dragging their crying children into the church services. The place is a horror camp. His congregation is only about 20-30 people, most all are relatives. The church is a cover for an alarm company he runs out of the same office. he avoids paying taxes by claiming all the income as church proceeds.

      • Gus Snarp

        From what I’ve seen of this guy and his church, that sounds about right, but do you have a citation for that? I’d be interested to know if someone actually has evidence of this, particularly the tax evasion bit. The IRS accepts tips, too.

  • Dorothy

    has anyone ever heard his wife’s opinion on this? has she ever spoken or written about it? been allowed to speak or write about it?

    • Belaam

      I’m sure she’s too busy making those three fantastic meals a day for him.

      • Jen

        …and home-schooling the kids, don’t forget!

      • Phil

        If it was me, I’d fix him a fantastic meal he’d never forget – especially when the paramedics put him on the stretcher and take him out to the ambulance….. BWAHAHAHAHA!

        • ~SoACTing

          Lol!! Please tell me you know of the song “Goodbye Earl”, sung by the Dixie Chicks?? Because that’s the first thing that came to my mind!

    • http://www.facebook.com/lewis.thomason.3 Lewis Thomason

      She has a blog “Are they all yours” meaning remarks about her children. She claims to be the happiest woman in the world,staying at home for her perfect husband who is on the road a lot selling fire extingushing equipment.

      • McAtheist

        There is one really scary blog post on the “Alleged Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings”, and some really great organic recipes.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000328872774 Errol Mcinnes

      she is expressly forbidden to say anything while in church. I went to a church service, and she is not even allowed to say hello to anyone while in his presence. She must stare at the floor, or look at only steve. He has broken that woman and made her his slave. He brought her from overseas, think mail order bride. I don’t even know if she was ever naturalized. she basically agreed to surrender her human rights in order to come to the states.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000328872774 Errol Mcinnes

      she is expressly forbidden to say anything while in church. I went to a church service, and she is not even allowed to say hello to anyone while in his presence. She must stare at the floor, or look at only steve. He has broken that woman and made her his slave. He brought her from overseas, think mail order bride. I don’t even know if she was ever naturalized. she basically agreed to surrender her human rights in order to come to the states.

    • Sue Blue

      Has anyone ever actually seen his wife? Or is she “hidden away” at home cooking and cleaning and icing her bruises while this two-legged anus farts out his “wisdom” from the pulpit?

  • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

    Bleh. :( Fuck him in the ass. He’s giving valid criticics of feminism a hard time.

    • Valancy Jane

      Would you care to explain just what a “valid critic” of feminism looks like? Because I’ve been feminist for 20 years or so and haven’t ever run across a valid one. Lots of MRAs and Nice Guys, but no “valid critics.” There just isn’t a way to criticize equal opportunity for any gender and do it with validity.

      • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

        You’ve been a feminist for 20 years and haven’t run across a valid one? I suppose that puts you on the level of a bible thumper, who didn’t run across a valid criticism of the bible.

        What makes you think that feminisms are for equal opportunity?

        Could you give me 10 examples of statistics that feminists often inflate to make a point / validate their victim status / cash in?
        20 examples of completely ignored gender issues where men have it much worse than women?

        • Bobby

          Rape and DV come to mind.

        • Bobby

          Here’s a comment I found on another blog.

          Having found my way here as an atheist through Elevatorgate the comparison to fundamental religion was obvious from the get-go.

          Feminist = Adherant
          Rad Feminist = Acsetic ahderant
          White hetero male = heretic
          Privilege = Original sin
          Mansplain = Blasphemy
          Misogyny = Sacrilege
          Patriarchy = Satan

          And let’s not forget that Rebecca Watson Adria Richards and others died for our (men’s) sins.

  • corps_suk

    Think you guys miss the point, there are actually plenty of women who want exactly this. They are submissive to the bible and the church to the point they really want to be controlled and they look for the guys who share that biblical view of a marriage as a master and a wife.
    I work with 2 such women, they want it, one has even switched churches because they accepted women as sunday school teachers…so ask them if you want, but dont make a mess when your head explodes after they tell you they like being submissive to the bible, the church, and men.

    • http://twitter.com/yjmbobllns Yojimbo Billions

      Stockholm Syndrome, anyone? Also, how can you reasonably “want” something when you are unaware of any alternatives? But yes, I know plenty of women, including my mother, who are like this.

      • corps_suk

        I think your projecting your beliefs onto them, when you say its unreasonable to want this, they say its unreasonable to think women are equals. They’re highly educated, live in metropolitan areas, and have vocally atheist colleagues and friends like me…yet simply believe a biblical marriage with submissive wife is superior to yours with an equal wife.

        • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

          And they are demonstrably wrong. Anyone who believes oppressive bullshit is wrong.

          • corps_suk

            Well yeah…but to pretend they are niave and few exist is just as wrong.

    • jdm8

      And…? Just because some women want it, doesn’t mean all do, as his language implies. And it might well be some form of indoctrination, if they believe they’re going to go to hell because they attend a church with female sunday school teachers, then of course they’re going to “want” to be dominated.

    • gg

      Women who ‘want it’, are NOT women who are screaming they DON’T ‘want it’. You have made a poor argument here. I am a feminist, and I damned sure don’t want any man lording it over me. I demand respect and equality in a relationship. And you know what?…..I get it.

      • corps_suk

        I think you want to re-read all of my post…including the last sentence.

    • onamission5

      Nope. I grew up in a slightly less overt about it but still quite anti-feminist church. Internalized patriarchy is still patriarchy and women who live that way– having no say in any aspect of their own lives– are absolutely fucking miserable. That they think they deserve it because Jesus doesn’t mean they do or should have to live that way.

      • corps_suk

        Nope, some women simply like and enjoy being submissive for the church. Weird but as true as your anecdotal evidence.

        • The Captain

          Just feel the need to point out that your evidence is anecdotal too.

          • corps_suk

            Right. Just be wary of blanket statements about the women who submit to the bible, not all are bonnet wearing weirdos stuck in some small town with no options…some women willfully choose this, is all I was saying.

            • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

              Sure, there must be some, but do we actually have any statistics? How many women involved in patriarchal Christianity were raised in feminist, egalitarian homes and decided to adopt submissive complementarianism as adults? I would think very few, but it would be interesting to see statistics.

              • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

                Why on earth did someone downvote me for that? I am genuinely curious how many women from egalitarian backgrounds get sucked into biblical patriarchy. I would assume that it is a minority of those who are involved in these movements, but I don’t have statistics. If anyone does, I’d be interested in seeing them.

    • http://twitter.com/enuma enuma

      Telling someone that submission is demanded by an all-powerful deity who will inflict the worst possible torture on you if you deviate from his plan removes the possibility of freely choosing this lifestyle.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        During my time with my abuser I would have said — insisted, really — that I “chose” to be submissive. But that doesn’t change the fact that I was a victim, and very much forced into submission.

        I suspect it’s much the same with “submissive” christian women.

        • Valancy Jane

          I had the same experience. I was desperately trying to be a good little Christian wife, married to a lying douche of a narcissistic preacherboy, because I thought that was what Jesus really wanted for me and that’s what would make me happiest. There were no shortage of feminists around me in college showing open shock and revulsion about the arrangement I considered godly and Biblical!

          I accept now that I was browbeaten and manipulated shamelessly by horrible people. It wasn’t much of a choice when the alternative was burning in hell forever for defying God’s will.

          • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

            Crazy how you can twist and “justify” abuse because “it’s what god wants”, eh?

      • corps_suk

        But there are people who choose that freely, thats all I am saying.

    • Baby_Raptor

      Strawman. This guy isn’t saying that there are some women who like that; he’s saying that all women were ‘created’ to do exactly that and those of us who don’t want it are just lying to ourselves and everyone around us.

      He’s being a blatant asshat who thinks he knows everything about everyone.

      • corps_suk

        “he’s saying that all women were ‘created’ to do exactly that”
        And there are some women who really really belve that, and thats their right.

        Read my post again champ, no strawman at all.

        • Baby_Raptor

          Okay, let’s go over your post then.

          1) You claim we miss the point because there are actually women who want this. But for us to have missed the point due to there being women who want this, we’d have to be critiquing him for claiming that. He’s not claiming that. He’s claiming that ALL women really want it, and further, we were all created for it. And that we lie when we say we don’t actually want it. So…Again, you’re strawmanning.

          2) Just because some women really do believe it doesn’t mean its true. Its not true. And the fact that some women believe it does not excuse his lies.

          3) Nobody has said that these people shouldn’t have the right to believe this stuff. You’re making up things that people have said and then attacking us for saying what you pulled out of your ass.

          So, yeah. Want to try again, “champ”?

  • Good and Godless

    I am ashamed when I do speak in church too.

    Sorry everyone I’ve attended weddings (3 times in 5 years) in churches and people do expect me to talk to some extent.

  • Good and Godless

    I am ashamed when I do speak in church too.

    Sorry everyone I’ve attended weddings (3 times in 5 years) in churches and people do expect me to talk to some extent.

  • http://twitter.com/yjmbobllns Yojimbo Billions

    Lawrence Krauss is going to have to host a whole hell of a lot more Origins discussions at Gammage to counter all the nonsense coming out of Tempe because of this guy.

  • http://twitter.com/Cos2mwiz2 Cos2mwiz2

    Wonder what he thinks of Islam? Guessing he rather likes the idea of keeping his little woman in a bee keeper suit. #ChristianTaliban

  • Georgina

    “It’s a monarchy, okay? Mono.”
    Obviously, semantics is not a necessary study for shamans.

    • http://gloomcookie613.tumblr.com GloomCookie613

      You spelled “conman” wrong. ;)

      • http://www.facebook.com/brian.westley Brian Westley

        I think she meant “Sham-man”

    • McAtheist

      Revisionist etymology? lol

  • pleasebereasonable

    “Please put me in my place!” Bahahahaha! Its a testament to the power of blind faith that this jackass has a congregation at all. A decent person would be ashamed to have even thought that, let alone actually vocalize it (insert eyeroll face).
    .

  • Carmelita Spats

    Meh, it’s just much manly macho grunting which provides much mirth. He reminds me of Norman Bates. I bet he’s got duct tape, plastic tubs, bubble wrap, a gym bag, five female wigs, stiletto heels, beet red lipstick, chipmunks, an-exhausted-iguana-in-a-tiny-sombrero and concrete blocks in the back of his car. He’s also got Mom in the cellar. “And if you don’t believe this, you’re just ignorant.” Weirdo.

  • jdm8

    I think there’s a point where spreading word of his beliefs is giving him exactly what he probably wants: a global audience. He’s not going to go away, but I wonder if it’s counterproductive to help this guy spread his message.

  • Fargofan

    When he talks about women meaning the exact opposite of what they say, it implies that a woman’s “no” can mean “yes”…that women can’t even be trusted to know what they want…and that makes it all the more disturbing.

  • Georgina

    Now I listened to it all. WOW!

    This guy really has something. He has managed to persuade terrified women that if they don’t want to obey their husbands, they must be abnormal.
    All based on a book written by men in a primitive culture (but not cultural at all), who really hate lesbians.

    Talk of apples and oranges – this guy is a definate banana!

  • Jasper

    I take it his congregation is mostly male.

    • RobMcCune

      I’m sure some of the manly men in his congregation pick women up and carry them to his services.

      • Artor

        LOL! Or just drag them by the hair.

  • http://twitter.com/enuma enuma

    So you can’t trust women to say what they really mean? No means yes?

    I really, REALLY hope that no one from his congregation is ever on the jury for a rape trial.

    • Artor

      More likely they’ll be in the lineup.

      • JesseS

        I wanted to thumbs up that, but then I realised its true, and now I just want to curl up in the fetal position with ice cream.

  • Artor

    When I hear men blather about how they are supposed to be the supreme leader at home, and women are supposed to be subservient vessels, I’m hearing cowardly men who can’t stand the thought of being challenged by women. They cling to outdated Biblical notions of gender roles, because if they were to be judged by their own merits, they’d be found sadly wanting. Anderson talks tough, but to me, he’s obviously a pathetic wuss.

  • Jen

    This guy is like a car wreck…I know I shouldn’t look, I know I’m going to be disturbed by it…but I look anyway!! It’s morbidly fascinating. I really don’t get how these relationships are supposed to work. It seems to me like such men are infantilizing women and that doesn’t sound like a healthy adult relationship. Part of me wants to say, “Well, if that’s what some women really want- then have at it!” On the other hand, if you have been indocritnated/brainwashed to believe this nonsense then you’ve really been cheated out of a life.

  • A3Kr0n

    You just couldn’t resist looking, could you?

  • Whitney

    Remember, it’s not rape, it’s surprise sex you didn’t know you wanted!

  • Raising_Rlyeh

    Sounds like he wants a twisted version of a BDSM M/s relationship.

  • http://tellmewhytheworldisweird.blogspot.com/ perfectnumber628

    Oh no, he’s seen through all the feminist arguments and discovered our true motivation! I must warn the others!

  • jl

    Either you or the pastor are manipulating St. Paul, or at least forgetting to quote Gal 3:28 to have the whole picture.”There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
    I was expecting more from both…”

    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

      How on earth does that make it any better? Does mentioning that slaves are “all one in Christ Jesus” make slavery acceptable?

      • jl

        Oh, yeah, it makes the foundation for the abolition of slavery, which at that time, was a huge step.

        • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

          There’s nothing anti-slavery in that verse, and you seem to be forgetting the hundreds of years that American Christians used the Bible to justify the practice.
          Regardless, what does that verse have to do with women? Christians’ supposed acceptance of “you are all one in Christ Jesus” has not led these churches to stop telling women that they must be submissive followers to men.

          • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

            Feminist AND egalitarian? That’s like a creationist scientist.

            • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

              What on earth do you mean?

              Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.

              Equality is right there in the definition.

              • Bobby

                Actions speak louder than words.

                • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

                  What actions are you so upset about? And what exactly does it have to do with my original point? Suppose a girl was raised to think that women are superior to and should have more rights than men. I don’t think there are many girls who are raised that way, but for the sake of argument, I would think very few of those girls would be inclined to adopt submissive complementarianism as adults.

                  Corps made several remarks about how some women freely choose to live that way. I don’t doubt that some do, but I would be very surprised if it was anything other than a small minority. I think most of the women involved in those movements were taught from the time that they were young children that men and women should have different roles. Again, I’d like to see statistics, if there are any out there.

                • Bobby

                  I was speaking about feminism being about equality. It isn’t. If it were, men’s problems wouldn’t get brushed over with the excuse, “Well, women’s issues are so much more important right now. Did you know that… blah blah blah, more women beaten by so’s than men(lie)…blah blah blah… no equal pay(another lie),” and so on.
                  Primary aggressor laws, the tender years doctrine, VAWA, DV shelters refusing to take in men or male children over a certain age, organizations like NOW fighting against joint custody, federal advocation of the stripping of the right to be presumed innocent on college campuses, the lopsided definition of rape that doesn’t take into account the most common way that women rape men, thereby skewing rape statistics(here’s to you Mary Koss and the CDC). The portrayal of men by feminists that women are always victims, men are always oppressors/agents.
                  All advocated by feminists.
                  If women were so concerned about men raping women, the best thing to do would be to allow men into those programs for sexual abuse victims that are closed to men. A large majority of rapists and other serious sex offenders were abused at a younger age, with as many as 60-80% being abused by a female.

                • Valancy Jane

                  What on earth is *wrong* with you, Bobby? I mean it, you are a really damaged person. You didn’t give Anna a single thing she asked for, instead trying to redirect to yet another place where you haven’t got statistics on your side. Are we not allowed to be concerned about male-on-female rape as long as a miniscule number of rapes are committed upon men? Is that really where you’re going here? About all you’ve managed to do is admit that women raised in the sickness of patriarchy see sexuality as something to be controlled and used by the dominant person in a pairing–that is something feminists are working to end for both genders. Feminism is on your side, but you are not on its. Telling, isn’t it.

                • Anna

                  I’m not familiar with the things you mentioned. I’d obviously need to do research to find out who those people are and what the proposed laws entail, but you can be assured that I am for absolute gender equality. I consider it part of feminism to ensure that men and women have the exact same rights and responsibilities in family life, in the workplace, etc.

              • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

                Bobby and Morva are MRAssholes, best to ignore them.

                • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

                  Haha.
                  Step1. Demonize your opponent. Call them names, so you don’t have to address their points.
                  Step2. ???
                  Step3. PROFIT!

                  I love how you jumped to conclusions despite the fact that I never mentioned any MRA business here. Had you asked, I would have told you that I do not consider myself an MRA. But I love it how you immediately deflected criticism by demonizing me and completely ignoring everything I said.
                  Typical femitheist scum. :)

                • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

                  Reading through the rest of the thread, there seems to be some sort of odd obsession on their part.

              • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

                And islam is a religion of peace!

                • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

                  Uh, I could, but I’m really not interested in some long, drawn-out conversation about your apparent beef with the word “feminist.”

                • Bobby

                  Because you know that women aren’t oppressed any more than men are oppressed, and, in a lot of cases, less.

    • GCT

      So, in order to understand the women are not to be subservient, despite the clear writing that says so, we must trawl through the book to find some passage, somewhere (anywhere) else that we can take out of context to pretend it means that women need not be subservient? That’s apparently what you expect? Well, I don’t expect that from you.

      The Galatians verse is talking about salvation and those who are faithful. It does not say that women are equal to men or that slaves should be free. It says that the rewards of heaven will be granted to all despite their station in life. If anything, it’s a sop to people who are female and are slaves that their lot will get better when they die so long as they hold the correct beliefs.

      Why you think this is a serious or compelling argument on your part is beyond me.

  • SeekerLancer

    This guy’s provided a few good laughs in the past but honestly, the implications of this rant are terrifying and dehumanizing.

  • cb

    Now explain away stoning in the bible, and the gospels that are not in the bible.

  • Bdole

    So I’ve got “”Django Unchained” on the brain, having just seen it last night.

    There’s a scene where DiCaprio’s character shows three dimples in a black slave’s skull that supposedly indicate that black people have brains that are naturally servile. THIS is exactly the same kind of reasoning – only without the pretense of scientific backup.

  • http://www.travismamone.net/ Travis Mamone

    Ugh, Steve Anderson! On a scale of bat-shit crazy Christians, he’s a fucking 10!

  • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn Anna

    This pastor is obviously crazy and over the top, but it’s important to remember that the idea of men being leaders and women being submissive followers isn’t limited to some tiny, fringe element of Christianity. Plenty of people who wouldn’t touch Anderson’s church with a ten-foot pole also believe this nonsense.

    Parachurch organizations that have been described as complementarian include Focus on the Family, Campus Crusade for Christ, and Promise Keepers. Focus on the Family and the Promise Keepers do not take a position on women in the church, but both believe in male headship in the family. Campus Crusade for Christ “has not taken any role of women in ministry”, though its FamilyLife organization directed by Dennis Rainey sponsors “Weekend to Remember” marriage conferences which reportedly teach male headship. Noted supporters of the Complementarian position include J.I. Packer, Wayne Grudem, Albert Mohler, Mark Dever, Mark Driscoll, C. J. Mahaney, Adrian Rogers, Richard Land, Ligon Duncan, Gerald Bray, Terry Virgo, John Wimber, Tim Keller, John F. MacArthur, C.S. Lewis, John Piper and Elisabeth Elliot, missionary and wife of the missionary Jim Elliot.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementarianism

    • Sue Blue

      I know that the Seventh Day Adventist Church strongly promotes the idea of male leadership in both church and family. They do not ordain women. When I was a member, it was constantly implied in sermons, sabbath school, and bible studies that women should be married as soon as possible and that divorced or widowed women should devote themselves to church service or be considered reprobates, incomplete human beings. Single mothers were simply beyond the pale unless some upstanding male church member was willing to marry them and “lift them and their children out of sin”. Women are like “half a person” who needs a man to be whole. I know this because I personally experienced it and heard it in sermons on a weekly basis.
      The SDA church is not a fringe cult. It’s a huge, worldwide Protestant denomination that believes that women are inherently weak and in need of men because Eve was created as an appendage to Adam.

    • Meredith

      And it’s not just limited to Christianity. I know a secular guy who believes all this drivel too, except that evolution made men dominant rather than God. Arrogance and narcissism can be justified with whatever philosophical cudgel one wants to take up. And it’s sad about the misappropriation of the lovely concept of complementarity, which should really mean that each person, regardless of gender, brings different but equally important strengths to the table.

  • ShoeUnited

    I’m glad this pastor found a submissive to live forever with. A lot of people enjoy Dom/Sub/Switch relationships. The same way some people enjoy feet or butts or whatever. Varying degrees of how much is enough. And so I’m glad he found a woman who loves to be beat and treated as second class. We all need someone who will love us the way we want to be loved.

    It’s just that not everybody is built that way. It’s not Black/White/Gray shades. Life is colorful. Imposing your working relationship on other people would be as wrong as other people imposing their working relationship style on you.

    You can read further into how this could lead to one ‘yes’ negates all the ‘no’s to justify rape and that. But I think this can be more easily dismissed as “You wouldn’t want to live your life this way, so don’t tell other people to live their life that way.”

    • tsara

      Erm… I see what you’re saying, but I think this is a bit worse than that; even beyond the fact that he’s calling his way the One True Way and that his magic sky fairy will smite anyone who does it wrong, he’s in (and promoting) what is effectively a Dom/sub relationship without also having (or at least promoting) the precautions (e.g., safe words, trying to know and understand yourself and each other as human beings and not just as your roles [so that both parties are really giving and getting what they want/need and not what caricatures of their roles want/need], limits and boundaries, open and honest communication, etc.) that keep those relationships from turning dangerous — or at least unpleasant.

      And the easy way he dismisses the words of the people he sees in the submissive role and pathologizes/dehumanizes anybody who would present herself as evidence that he might be wrong tells me that he is a dangerous person. He sees no point in listening to anything that comes out of a woman’s mouth: he already knows what she wants, and if something she says does not line up with that, she’s either lying, wrong, or “reprobate” (probably intended to mean some combination of ‘damaged’ and ‘a terrible human being’, in accordance with whatever his particular concept of ‘sin’ is). He is not going to modify his behaviour for anything a woman says unless he’s feeling magnanimous, and he is encouraging others to follow his example.

  • mikespeir

    Let’s see if they’re still together in 10 years. For her sake, I hope not.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Kevin_Of_Bangor

      They have been married for 12 years already and have 7 children. I highly doubt she is going anywhere.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        Then let’s just hope the kids wise up and GTFO as soon as they hit 18.

    • Miss_Beara

      She is just as bad as he is.

  • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

    Ten to one, he’s abusing his wife and excusing it with scripture.

    • JKPS

      And his kids. He’s talked before about how beating your kids is biblical and godly. I’ve read his wife’s blog and his kids look happy and adorable, but I still worry.

      • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

        Oh, I guaran-damn-tee you that the wife and kids put on that happy “everything is perfect” facade for the express purpose of protecting him.

        • JKPS

          Those poor kids. And wife. :(

  • Jayn

    I’m a fairly submissive person by nature, but I don’t need a man to tell me this guy deserves a smack upside the head.

    (Also, there’s a difference between following a leader and being put in one’s place. I’ll happily do the former, but won’t tolerate the latter.)

    • JesseS

      “(Also, there’s a difference between following a leader and being put in
      one’s place. I’ll happily do the former, but won’t tolerate the latter.)”

      This. A thousand times this. In healthy D/S relationships the sub is voluntarily giving up the power, and is able to take it back at any time, not having it taken from them. It’s a completely different concept.

      • Korou

        And what about all the happily submissive males?
        I’m sure the good pastor would say they weren’t real men.

        • Valancy Jane

          Truly, patriarchy is just as harmful for men as it is for women. The forced and artificial gender constructs they create and enforce hurt everybody, even those who at least superficially fit the constructs.

          • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

            Ah, the invisible pink unicorn that is patriarchy!

            • Valancy Jane

              Except we can measure sexism and its vile effects, whereas nobody’s ever seen a pink unicorn. About the only people who doubt that there really is a patriarchical mindset in the United States are those who have bought most deeply into the privilege it brings to those who fit the mold.

              • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

                How do you define patriarchy?
                Females outnumber males in each election by 15-25%. Is that patriarchy for you?

                Are you saying that women can’t be sexist? Don’t you recognize that very notion is utterly sexist? And stupid? It’s like I’m talking to children. Or the religious.

                Go and live in the mountains until you educate yourself about sexism against men and sexism coming from women in our society. Maybe after that we can talk as adults. Perhaps. I don’t count on it, because you are religious.

                • Valancy Jane

                  Where in the world are you getting the 15-25% figure? There are far more men than women in elected positions in the United States. If there are more female voters, that’s not an indication of reverse sexism.

                  Anybody can be sexist. Women can buy into patriarchy as well. We see it all the time in the GOP. Are you saying that we’re not allowed to focus on the sexism that is most damaging to our country? Women earn less on the dollar than men. Women do more housework and childcare than men. Women are plunged into poverty more often by divorce than men. Women may be earning more degrees than men, but they are woefully under-represented in career science positions and in CEO positions. Women suffer more domestic violence incidents and are raped more often than men are. But you’re convinced that the way to fix all that is to double down on the wrongs women face. For you to be comfortable, women must be kept down. That’s very telling.

                  By dismissing me as a child, you are only proving my point that you are in fact a sexist. And oh btw, I’m not a Christian or involved in any Judeo-Christian religions. By further dismissing me that way, you further damage your case. But hey, if you don’t have facts, a good old ad hominem works just as well, doesn’t it? Talk about being a child…

          • Bobby

            So women are submissive. No dominant person would allow others to force them into gender roles for thousands of years. Makes perfect sense. And women have no hand whatsoever in making and enforcing these gender constructs. Thank you for enlightening me.

            • Valancy Jane

              Ah, so you think that slavery should still be legal, since slaves couldn’t get free until the modern age? And child prostitution, that’s totally okay too, right? And taking women prisoners of war as “wives”? Consider me in turn rather enlightened… into the mind of an MRA.

              • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

                But you rarely ever consider the fact that kids as late as after the Vietnam war were sent on gunpoint to murder and be murdered. Did you register for the draft, darling?

                You see a patriarchy in the fact that males historically had the pleasure and privilege to die for their country and its female inhabitants! How incredible is that. It’s like seeing peace in islam.

                • http://gamesgirlsgods.blogspot.com/ Feminerd

                  I tried, actually. They wouldn’t let me. And I fully and completely support gender equality in the military, including forcing young women to register for the draft if men are forced to.

                  The pleasure and privilege of dying for one’s country came with the pleasure and privilege of ruling that country. The pleasure and privilege of dying in childbirth (more women died in childbirth than men did in war, historically) came with the pleasure and privilege of being a man’s sex slave, maid, cook, and nanny. Not exactly comparable, eh, “hun”?

    • Valancy Jane

      A woman might be a submissive, but that doesn’t mean she’s *his* submissive.

  • WallofSleep

    “Reprobate Lesbians”? Is this like when a drunken asshole is hitting on a woman, and then exclaims “fucking dyke” when she spurns his advances?

    No, no. A “normal”, straight woman would never turn me down or challenge my authority, so she must be a reprobate lesbian. How can this guy have enough room in his small mind to form a thought?

  • Lee Miller

    I think this has been said before about this guy, but he at the very least has the virtue of being honest about what the Bible says. He’s stil cherry picking, but what he’s saying very much represents what’s in the Bible on those topics. He’s not sugar-coating the awfulness.

  • SteveS

    This is what you get for tuning into this psychopath’s rants. He gets off on saying astonishing things. He’ll continue to blurt them out as long as women continue to sit through his sermons. The best thing I saw in the comments was that his wife mentioned he was away a lot selling fire extinguishers. It means he can’t attract enough zombies to do this full time.

  • Miss_Beara

    I feel sorry for his poor children.

  • http://www.facebook.com/don.gwinn Don Gwinn

    That’s not just his reaction to feminism. That’s your standard every-day refusal to admit that anyone actually differs in any real way from my point of view. You *say* you see the world differently than I do, but how could anyone not see the obvious truth of The Way Things Are? You must be lying…or deluded….or due for an epiphany any moment now. Anything but a rational, sane human being who simply doesn’t conform to my notion of what you should be.

  • Baby_Raptor

    Yup. *I’m* the ignorant one. Wowee…One day, this man is going to have a catastrophic breakdown. His entire world view is going to break into tiny pieces.

    I hope its public. Just for karma.

  • Spartikus

    Anytime you post something by this caveman, please include the picture of his “church”.

  • Verandaguy

    Is it just me, or is that pastor flamboyantly gay?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000328872774 Errol Mcinnes

    He’s still looking in the bible for a verse that he can quote to prove he is the son of god. the guy is a jackass, and his wife is evidence of the harm done by being married to an evangelical nutcase. she is neurotic beyond words. There is a reason he only has her in very few videos. I have picketed that church numerous times. that dude is out of control.

  • http://www.summerseale.com/ Summer Seale

    I wonder what he thinks of powerful women CEOs who have made entire businesses and corporations, and run entire sectors of technological solutions and innovations which produce more and help more people than his pathetic little piss bucket church ever has.

    Is he gonna walk up to Marissa Mayer and tell her who’s boss?

    I’d pay to see what kind of tactic she’d choose to rid herself of this pestering little fuckwit.

    • Valancy Jane

      I’m guessing it’d look a lot like what Victor Maitland did to Axel Foley upon their first face-to-face meeting.

  • http://www.facebook.com/terri.hemker Terri Hemker

    This man is dangerous! He thinks like a rapists! Telling women what they want….that they WANT to be dominated and put in their place and controlled…..this is EXACTLT how a rapist thinks! He is Mentally Ill!

  • Carpinions

    The more I read of this guy’s ramblings, the more I get the sense that this guy is getting free tax dollars just to bitch about all the things he hates in the world to whomever will walk through his door to listen.

    Tax churches now.

  • Gus Snarp

    Do we need to have an intervention, Hemant?

  • http://twitter.com/JackalopeDance Andi GreyScale

    Dudes like that pastor are great reminders as to why I prefer women. I’d defend myself against any asshole that attempts to put me “in my place”.

    • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

      That’s a nice way of you admitting to being a sexist asshole.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=518897567 Gretta Vosper

    So I’m ignorant and my “no” means do whatever you want to me because, if you’re a man, you must be right. Thank goodness I already know that the reading he is quoting is a human document written by human hands that needs to be critiqued by human reason. But I lament the damage being done to those who do not know that and who still live under the belief that the Bible is TAWOGFAT, The Authoritative Word of God For All Time. And for the worldviews that are shaped but this dangerous and abusive rhetoric, cloaked in a personal misogyny.

  • http://twitter.com/reanimated Kelly S

    BAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. oh little man. sit down and shut up.

  • Goatless

    Why is it that my reaction to this asshole is the same one I get when I see men deciding things about women’s right to birth control?

    Namely, if you’re not a woman then shut up and get out.

    You, as a man, cannot and do not speak for all women. Partly because you’re a man but partly because, even with all your ‘years of experience’ you probably haven’t met even 1% of the worlds women.

    Not to mention that your conclusion appears to be biasing your evidence. You see a woman saying that she doesn’t need a man, that she is equal to men and you see somebody who needs to be subjugated rather than somebody who actually doesn’t need a man.

    Call me ignorant but I’m a woman and I have yet to find the little voice inside me saying ‘tell me what to do and put me in my place O large and virile man’.

    I have, on occasion, found the little voice saying ‘punch that asshole in the face’ though.

    • Bobby

      I happen to support women’s right to birth control, including, though I personally dislike it, abortion. But I do think that men have a right to speak on matters related to birth control and abortion.
      In our society, women are able to decide whether or not they want children, by using birth control, getting an abortion, giving a kid up for adoption, or dropping them off at the hospital or fire station with no consequences whatsoever.
      Men meanwhile, have effectively no choice in the matter. He doesn’t want the kid but she does, financial slavery for the next 18-21 years. He wants it but she doesn’t, too bad, so sad, get over it.
      You might say that it’s a woman’s body, so it’s her choice. You are right. However, allowing women to shirk all responsibility for her actions while expecting men to… pay to play as it were is undeniably sexist and unequal.
      Men have a right to demand the right to relinquish all parental rights and responsibilities within a reasonable amount of time, say a year from the time he finds out that he has a child. After all, women can drop the kid off years after the kid is born with no drawbacks.
      I imagine that if such a system were put in place, it would reduce the amount of unwanted babies, and crime. After all, if a woman knows that she is not able to rely on another person to financially support her choice to have a baby, she might just decide to not have one.

    • http://www.facebook.com/d3st88 Morva Ádám

      Darling,
      For your information:
      Female voters outnumber male voters by 15-25% each election, so the power IS with females. If you see some asshole who is against abortion and happens to be male, well, he WAS elected by women.
      If you look at the bloody statistics, you’ll see that men and women support / oppose abortion to the almost same degree, in fact, some polls and studies show that men are a tiny bit more pro-choice than females.

      So what the FUCK are we talking about? You got brainwashed by the bloody feminists.

      On the other hand the proposal that men shouldn’t have a say in matters concerning women is absolutely rubbish. I will never fuck a child, however, I reserve the right to have a say in the matter of pedophiles, because in a democracy it’s humans thinking about humans.

  • http://www.spellwight.com spellwight

    I have an urge to visit this dude’s church and kick up some sort of fuss, but I don’t have a clue of any effective way to do it. It is sort of local to me if anyone has an idea.

  • Jordan Sugarman

    I’m glad he clarified for us. Now I understand that any woman who genuinely doesn’t want to be dominated by a male partner is not a normal woman, but in fact she is a “reprobate lesbian.” I’ll be sure to let my wife know she has been living a lie.

  • http://twitter.com/LoraineLawson Loraine Lawson
  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1630511468 Betty Eyer

    I guess there isn’t any such concept in his world except one person dominant and one submissive. The whole concept that life could be about mutual respect and cooperation is just so rareThey are always quoting Paul or the old Testament on this anti-woman stuff, Jesus did not go into that. He just said “love each other”. I think in the long run, all marriages should involve BOTH partners “submitting”. Sometimes you decide that a topic means more to your partner than to you, and you don’t really want to spend the time or money that way, but you do it out of love. And you should BOTH be willing to do that.

    My experience in watching the lives of men like this is that they have divorces, which they of course blame on their disobedient wives. It so hard to find good help these days.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jason-Valentine/100000243432179 Jason Valentine

    Any man who feels that they need to dominate a woman is insecure in his own mind as to what his role is in life. ANYONE who needs to dominate other on a daily basis outside the BDSM community of course..where domination is consensual, is insecure regarding who they are and can only feel fulfilled if they are in charge.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elizabeth.burton Elizabeth K. Burton

    That passage people like this love to quote was written by a man who was not only a lifelong bachelor but made it clear he on many occasions he detested women. I refer, of course, to Saul of Tarsus. Who strikes me as the first “new disciple” to pick and choose the parts of what his Savior said that suited his own prejudices.

  • http://twitter.com/GuruMikee Mike

    He always seems so angry.

  • Frank

    I’m not religious, but he’s absolutely right. Many feminists are just “acting out” so they can get the discipline / attention they are seeking. When they start getting argumentative, it’s a signal they don’t feel restricted enough, and they are trying to prod you into action. It took me a while to figure that out with the feminist studies girl I’m dating right now.

    • http://itsmyworldcanthasnotyours.blogspot.com/ wmdkitty

      Translation: I beat my girlfriend and this is how I justify it.

    • Anna

      Wow.

  • Kim Mazzola

    Why do atheists always quote some redneck backwoods preacher who is spewing his own brand of religion that is neither theologically sound nor doctrinally correct. Why don’t you go the the pastors/ministers/teachers who have studied God’s Word thoroughly in Hebrew, Greek and English so they have the real meaning of the scripture and can apply it to our world today in a reasonable manner. Stop looking for the yahoos who make a bad name for all Christians just to advance your cause.

    • Anna

      We don’t. Steven Anderson has only been mentioned on this blog a couple of times. There have been far more posts about other evangelical and fundamentalist leaders. Is Mark Driscoll a redneck? Rick Warren? Pat Robertson? James Dobson? Joel Osteen? John Piper? Tim Keller? Billy Graham? Those men aren’t leaders of tiny, fringe cults. They aren’t backwoods yahoos. They have millions of followers and admirers, and they have all been discussed on this blog.

      Also, your belief that some preachers are “theologically sound” and “doctrinally correct” is simply your opinion. Atheists don’t think any of those people are correct because we believe the entire underlying premise is false.

  • http://hopeseekingunderstanding.wordpress.com/ Holly Swift

    I’m a Christian woman. In fact, I’m a seminary student pursuing an MDiv. I am also a feminist. I can tell you that what I find most insulting about his speech is his insinuation that you can’t trust what other people say from their own perspectives (in this case those people being women who don’t believe they want his kind of marriage). Of course following his logic that one shouldn’t trust the things women say when they disagree with him because they think something else, I feel inclined to ask what battle he’s fighting and want to psychoanalyze him. How dare you tell someone else what he or she is feeling on the inside.

    • Stephen Winfield

      Holly, if you are a feminist you are definitely not a Christian. Feminism has nothing to do with Biblical Christianity.

  • Klaas

    Say that to a strong women’s face.

  • Stephen Winfield

    This pastor speaks the truth. Our feminized Western culture is under God’s wrath. One day people will face God and many “Christians” who think they are going to heaven will actually end up in hell (Matthew 7:21-23). Don’t be afraid to upset feminists. Stand for the truth and you will be blessed. I take pleasure in being slandered for speaking the truth :)

  • Kyle

    I completely agree with him.

  • M.

    So why did ‘God’ also gave women other abilities? I don’t understand the sense of your text! On this planet there are women who lead countries… didn’t you know that? I guess where you come from there are not evan men well educated. I would recommend you to read contemporary literature and newspapers… it sometimes really helps to understand the world!

  • Dylan

    I don’t think the real issue is about whether the man or woman is equal. The reason men want to have control in their homes is because they feel threatened by their wives and don’t want to be exposed when they make mistakes. Woman are so good at exposing our hearts as men and we need that so badly, hence why the Bible refers to women as the helper. She’s a helper all right! Helping me make good decisions :)
    Wisdom is referred to as a woman, I believe this is God telling us men “Hey! Listen and ask your wife what she thinks”. Most men are afraid of being wrong, especially in front of their wives. Insecurity holds them back from exposing their hearts. Yet I find this interesting… A man is scared of making a bad decision. He uses control to make himself feel secure, then ignores his wife and goes ahead to make decisions without the Wisdom that God gave him in the first place (his wife). That to me sounds like he is setting himself up for failure, just like many men do.

    So as I process this debate that continues to go in in the church, I realize that the battle is not about equality or whether or not a home becomes a dictatorship. The real battle is about our hearts and involves fear and love.

    Fear and Love are the two things we can side with. “Husbands love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her”. What does that look like? I ask myself this question quite often. What is it that makes it so hard for me to listen to my wife and accept that I might be wrong?

    The first thing that might pop into your head of course is “oh it’s because you are being prideful!”. Yes of course, but why? See we often look at the surface of the problem without going in deep and finding out the root that continues to sprout new problems after we cut the problem down each time. Many people say that the person just needs to be delivered from a demon or needs to learn a lesson, the list goes on. Or we can take a step back and look at the real issue…. fear.

    See fear is the thing that holds us back in every area of life. That first job interview that we didn’t go to, that speech we should have made but didn’t have the courage to go up, even the fear of driving can prevent you from getting a license and then we have the Fear to Love.

    The fear to love is such a problem in our world today and I know that this is a big subject but it is a good thing to take a look at in our own lives. Are we afraid to listen to our spouse and empower them to be who they were created to be? Marriage is team work, not a husband dictating a household. I would be lost without my wife, seriously. Humility is the key, but we need to remove the fear that reigns in our hearts causing us to control others in our lives.

    My concern is that I want us as Christians to be known for our love, just as the bible says, but it seems that we fight to be known for our ability to be right. Jesus isn’t concerned with whether we won arguments or not, He is going to ask us if we learn’t how to love, think about it.

    Thanks for reading my crazy long post, I hope this inspires some thoughts, then from those thoughts a change in our nation :)

  • artemis

    just want to throw it out there that not ALL Christians believe this – it’s a very ‘traditionalist’ viewpoint. The essence of the biblical message – God loving all people equally and all human beings having equal value – should obliterate this viewpoint entirely. I am embarrassed for Christianity of what extremist viewpoints certain Christians can blindly adhere to with regards to complex modern issues such as gender and marriage. Fortunately this is not always the case: I have Christian friends who disagree with this traditionalist standpoint for many logical, biblical reasons – they aren’t all airheads like this guy.


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