No, Christian Post, Mikey Weinstein Was Not Hired by the Pentagon

I saw this at the Christian Post earlier this afternoon:

The Pentagon has hired a Jewish activist who has been outspoken in his opposition to conservative Christianity to serve as a consultant and develop new policies on religious tolerance.

Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, has spoken out against a number of conservative Christian groups, calling them “Fundamentalist Christian Monsters.”

What?! Mikey’s been hired by the Pentagon? No way!

Mikey Weinstein

Then I saw this, also at the Christian Post:

President Obama’s new “religious tolerance” consultant to the Pentagon, Mikey Weinstein, wants Christian military service members who openly talk about their faith in uniform to be charged with treason, which is a crime punishable by death according to military law.

What?! Mikey’s been hired by President Obama? No way!

Also, wha….? The MRFF is a church/state separation watchdog group, not a group that goes after people who pray. You can pray; you just can’t force others to do it with you, as some commanding officers have done in the past. MRFF isn’t trying to indirectly kill Christians, no matter what they want you to think.

But I was surprised about Mikey getting hired. I figured I would have heard something about it if it had happened.

So I called him up a few minutes ago.

It was a short, frenetic conversation that involved him explaining how certain groups are after him for all sorts of reasons, including his Jewish name and what MRFF fights for… but he told me he was not, in fact, hired by the Pentagon or Obama.

So where did they get that information from?

Breitbart, he said. The right-wing website, home to conspiracy theories and slimy attacks on anyone associated with the liberal cause.

Sure enough, this is what Liberty University School of Law professor Ken Klukowski wrote:

Weinstein will be a consultant to the Pentagon to develop new policies on religious tolerance, including a policy for court-martialing military chaplains who share the Christian Gospel during spiritual counseling of American troops.

How’s that for spin? Saying that military chaplains shouldn’t proselytize during their counseling of troops (certainly, not non-Christian ones) somehow became an attack on military chaplains.

Here’s the truth: Government officials met with Mikey recently to hear about why officials who proselytized to their subordinates needed to be punished. That’s all. They listened to what he had to say. They didn’t even take any action on it — yet. But that got spun into how the Pentagon hired some anti-Christian hate group leader.

To alleviate that concern, here’s what Mikey said about the proselytizing in a recent Huffington Post piece:

Neither MRFF nor any other genuine religious freedom organization of any repute has ever championed — and never would champion — that evangelical Christians, as a whole, should be ousted from the government or the military. We demand only that people of all faiths (or no faith) obey their solemnly sworn oath to the Constitution and follow the military’s regulations regarding religion.

Sounds like what the military should be doing already.

The article is blunt and provocative, as is much of what Mikey writes, but it’s certainly not suggesting that anyone should be punished or put to death for being a Christian.

Mikey wasn’t hired by the Pentagon. That’s a lie. Mikey doesn’t want Christians killed or punished for practicing their faith. That’s also a lie. What he wants is for our military to follow our Constitution.

Because of the rumors and articles, he’s getting all sorts of crazy threats, which he passed along to me. (I’ve blacked out the senders’ email addresses.)

I included that last one because, death threats aside, saying “I will have my troops pray for you also” is exactly the sort of sounds-fine-but-totally-isn’t thing that Mikey is trying to stop. You can’t tell your troops to pray when you’re a commanding officer. It’s an abuse of position that has no place in our military.

I asked Mikey if he had anything else to say to the people spreading these lies about him. He said he had five of them:

“Tell it to the judge.”

About Hemant Mehta

Hemant Mehta is the editor of Friendly Atheist, appears on the Atheist Voice channel on YouTube, and co-hosts the uniquely-named Friendly Atheist Podcast. You can read much more about him here.

  • http://twitter.com/robgoodwin72 Rob Goodwin

    If all the soldiers who are Christian decided to leave the service or were discharged for that matter, who would be left to defend our nation? Oh yes…the very people who seek to destroy it’s foundation…the non believers and the Muslims!

    • Randomfactor

      And they’d do the same outstanding job of defending the nation that they’re doing now.

    • WallofSleep

      As a non-believer, I have absolutely no interest in destroying the foundation of my beloved country. Quite the contrary, in fact. I do have an interest in adhering closer to the secular foundation of our nation, and reversing the unconstitutional damage done by fanatic fundamentalists.

    • ShoeUnited

      You do realize that leaving the service is a breach of contract and treason right? That’d be a lot of people before a military court, not a federal court, looking down the nose of the death penalty. It’s not an issue of them being Christian. Nobody is objecting to any brave soldiers kissing a crucifix, or a Jewish Star of David, or praying or any other holy practice in or outside of battle.

      It’s telling your people that they will pray or get punished that’s the issue. That they must pass a test (Spiritual Fitness test) that says they’re religious or get discharged for psychological issues. That atheists have asked for a freethought chaplain and have been denied. Those are the problems. You do realize that Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Atheists, Wiccans, and even Buddhists (non-exhaustive list) serve in the US military right? That having forced tests about religion is a direct violation of Article IV Section 3, you know? And that there really are Atheists in foxholes because they’re primarily the ones objecting to this.

      • Stev84

        It’s not treason. The standards for treason are very high and the term is thrown around way too casually.

        • ShoeUnited

          Alright. I’m not well versed in the US military codes. I just had assumed desertion = treason.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Phil-Bellerive/1118986200 Phil Bellerive

          I believe treason also requires that we be at war. The Rosenbergs aside, no war has been declared by Congress since December 8, 1945.

        • Artor

          Deserting in a time of war usually counts, but I think that has to happen in the actual hostile zones.

          • RobMcCune

            The definition of treason in the U.S. is written in the constitution and hasn’t been changed since.

    • The Captain

      Im a little confused, perhaps you could clear this up will you?

      Are you saying that your muslim and atheist fellow citizens who are currently serving this country where the only ones left in the military they would all commit treason? If so, please, please get back to me here in the comments so that I may set up a meeting with you and some of the atheist/muslim service members I know and you can say that to their fucking faces!

    • Sven2547

      What’s the point of this comment? Nobody is suggesting that Christians can’t be in the armed forces.

      • http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/ PsiCop

        Unfortunately, a lot of Christians interpret “You can’t use your position in the armed forces to push your beliefs on your subordinates” as meaning “Christians not allowed.” A lot of us can see the difference between those statements, but not them.

    • Carmelita Spats

      So you have to worship a trinitarian-incarnational-atoning-resurrecting-ascending-soon-to-be-returning god who was his own father, who sacrificed himself to himself, who impregnated a teenager so premarital sex can be forgiven, all this without a SHRED of evidence, in order to be a loyal defender of the Constitution? You have to kiss Hank’s A$$ to defend the U.S. Constitution? That’s as idiotic as stating that those who do not open wide and swallow a mouthful of Savior each Sunday cannot work for Roto-Rooter because they will undermine the drains. CBC=Christian Be Crazy.

    • Eric G

      Since there are no “true christians” I’m guessing the full compliment will be there at reveille.

    • onamission5

      So you think there’s only three lines of thought regarding deities, and you didn’t include as one of those lines of thought the religion of the very person this article was about. Interesting, very interesting.

      I am guessing if all the fundies left the military, suddenly there’d be a lot fewer people treating military actions as religious crusades. This would be a good thing.

    • http://www.allourlives.org/ TooManyJens

      Nobody’s trying to get all Christian soldiers out of the service. It’s people like you who need everyone to believe as you do, not people like Weinstein.

  • http://nwrickert.wordpress.com/ Neil Rickert

    It is great to see that outpouring of Christian love in the letters.

    </sarcasm>

    • AugustineThomas

      It’s great to see the atheistleftistbot is still hard at work suggesting that it’s not Christian to defend Christianity against the godless..

      Did Christ make people happy when he came or did he make them want to kill him?

      • John (not McCain)

        Fuck you and the clumsy slut your “savior” dropped out of.

        • baal

          Down voted for using ‘slut’ as an insult (particularly since it’s gendered in this case).

        • http://www.facebook.com/christina.n.gibson Christina Gibson Wisehart

          DO the words you speak aid anyone or anything? I don’t think they do. Perhaps you should revisit what it means to be Christ-like.

        • Rwlawoffice

          Love the atheist love for Allan’s the well known atheist respect for others hown by that post.

          • Rwlawoffice

            Bad typing on the iPad- love the atheist love for all men and the well known atheist respect for others by that post.

      • Bad_homonym

        Given that the christ myth is an amalgamation of several others that predate it, I can’t be convinced he ever existed. For me it would be like defending Harry Potter.

        • http://www.facebook.com/christina.n.gibson Christina Gibson Wisehart

          Christ was here on earth. It is historically documented. Cannot believe history? Then why do you believe anything that comes out of a history book or out of our presidents mouth?

          Perhaps you should look into the origins of Judaism and Christianity before you go around telling people that “defending Christ is like defending Harry Potter”.

          We will all die one day–and we will all know the truth–are you prepared?

          • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

            Then why do you believe anything that comes out of a history book or out of our presidents mouth?

            Fuck, there goes another irony meter. I’m billing you for that service call, Christina.

          • Bad_homonym

            I have researched both. I am a former born-again cristian of almost half my life. The EARLIEST writings of christ were at least 30 years after his death. There are ZERO extra-biblical accounts of him. Surprising given the roman penchant for documentation. And there are the MULTIPLE aspects of the christ story that appear in other religions long before his supposed existence. These are all facts. His story is not

            • Spuddie

              In all fairness, the Romans would not have paid attention to Jesus. He was a common resident of a backwater barely civilized province. Just about one step above slave.

              The last thing they would care about is someone stirring the pot with the locals over religion. Religion was not a subject the Romans took particularly very seriously either.

              Romans liked to document themselves and cared less about others unless they were trying to rebel. Bar Kochba’s revolt not long after the alleged death of Jesus is very well documented. But only from the Roman side. The sole Jewish writer whose works survive on the subject, Josephus defected to the Romans.

              Even if there were contemporaneous writings about him, it is doubtful any would still exist.

              This is all a roundabout way of saying you are correct. There are no reliable contemporaneous historical documentation as to the life of Jesus.

              • Bad_homonym

                Again it’s doubtful jebus even existed. If he did and did all the bible says and the Romans killed him, I just imagine it would be worthy of their noting it! The 30 year estimate of the first stories following his death is generous. Most biblical scholars put it over 70 years later. 2 generations at least. Hardly reliable as histories I think

                • Spuddie

                  I doubt the Romans would have said even that much. What was the execution of one more non-Roman to them. Probably happened every other Tuesday over there. At best a tickmark in a ledger somewhere.

            • Rwlawoffice

              Actually those are not facts and you are wrong. Show what aspects f the Christ story are earlier religions that were copied and I will show you how you are wrong.

          • Matt D

            I do not share your fear of death, so yes, I’m prepared. I’m human, so I may express fear and terror in times of uncertainty, but unlike you, I do not let these things define me.

      • El Bastardo

        Obvious troll is obvious, but since I have time on my hands I’ll bite.

        Christ had to die to make the blood sacrifice needed to appease himself so he could forgive his own creation for doing the thing he created them to do, all parts of god/jesus’ plan remember.

        He was also a Jew,

      • Dorfl

        So, to you it is correct Christian behaviour to claim that someone “has unprotected sex with the queer goats of gay muslim men”?

        • Christian shaking his head

          Not to feed into this left v. right, Christian v. Atheist rant, but no to the vast majority of Christians it is not correct it is deplorable. As an evangelical myself, I will share the tenants of my faith with anyone willing to listen. But as one who claims to represent Christ, I refuse to hurl insults. By definition if I’m supposed to be winning souls, why on earth would anyone stoop to that level? Atheists, agnostics, and members of all other faith groups, rest assured that these people do not represent what our faith is about. Unfortunately, as with the suicide bombers and the westboro nut jobs, the ones who shouldn’t be speaking for the masses usually are the ones who take the bullhorn for their “faith”. I myself just left the military after 10 years, and all of my Soldiers knew where I stood in my faith, never did I force these beliefs on them (aside from the stance of no vulgar or otherwise inappropriate speech in the office {dead baby jokes for one}). I only would freely tell them what I believed, but it was always after being asked.
          much love

          • Dorfl

            I respect that. When I said ‘you’ I was very much referring to AugustineThomas personally, not Christians in general.

            I think every movement has some problems with the fact that the loudest – and generally nuttiest – people are by definition the ones most audible to outsiders.

            • Christian shaking his head

              no, i totally get you, i just wanted to throw out a little sanity so that we weren’t completely misrepresented.
              maybe this would be a little out there, but all the extremist from every side, wouldn’t it be awesome to put them on a penal colony and let them sort it out, while the rest of us live in relative harmony?
              me refusing to cast the first stone-
              much love
              m

      • Gus Snarp

        I’m so confused. I never know which Jesus’ example I’m supposed to follow. Is it the one who said lay down your swords and turn the other cheek, or the one who wouldn’t help people of the wrong tribe who said he came with a sword? Did one of them say it was good to lie about other people as long as you ostensibly did it to defend Christianity? Did he at some point call women whores and men gay Muslim goat fuckers? Did he inflict the Pharisees with painful, fatal, rectal cancer?

        • http://www.facebook.com/christina.n.gibson Christina Gibson Wisehart

          I understand your confusion. Perhaps you should revisit the new testament for clarity.

          • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

            The confusion is yours: those are both NT references that Gus made.

          • Gus Snarp

            Heck, I think it’s all in Matthew. “Love thine enemy” and “I came not to send peace on earth, but a sword.” are both in Mathew 10. It’s all very confusing. As you can see, it seems you follow the love thine enemy, turn the other cheek, meek shall inherit the earth* Jesus, while AugustineThomas up there is more of the “I came not to send peace on earth, but a sword” Jesus. You say you know the truth, and I expect Thomas would say the same, but do you even agree on what kind of example Christians are supposed to be following?

            *But as a wise man once said, “What good is a used up world and how could it be worth having?” Jesus seems to be saying that the meek inheriting the earth is a good thing, but he’s also talking all the time about the kingdom of heaven, and storing up your treasure in heaven, not on earth. Then we get revelation where the earth is laid waste and the righteous ascend into heaven. Maybe Jesus really hated the meek and was saying they’ll be left behind with the dead husk of a planet swarming with demons, while the strong and I will be in heaven…

          • http://twitter.com/JasonOfTerra PhiloKGB

            Seriously? Which NT have you been reading?

      • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

        “But I say unto to you, whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn and call him a dirty America-hating Jew.”

      • RobMcCune

        So “defending christianity” means writing racist death threats? Thanks for revealing what kind of person you are.

        Did Christ make people happy when he came or did he make them want to kill him?

        Your analogy fails because your siding with the people making death threats, unless you’re saying Mikey is like Jesus.

      • Pepe

        Depends on how quick he came.

        Too soon?

  • http://twitter.com/Ro542124 Gideon

    So, what is the “spiritual counseling” that chaplains do? I’m puzzled about how a chaplain could say anything spiritual without making specific comments. The afterlife, for instance, which I imagine is a common enough topic in the military. When all the “knowledge” about the afterlife is extremely different in each religion, what can a chaplain possibly say about it as they “counsel”?

    • http://www.facebook.com/brian.westley Brian Westley

      You need to ignore all the misinformation and lies that Christians and chaplains say. Chaplains can make all kinds of specific religious references when counseling soldiers of the appropriate religion or when conducting services for soldiers of a particular religion. They CAN’T do this if their audience is unwilling or required to attend — they can’t preach sectarian religion at gatherings of soldiers of many faiths, they can’t preach where all soldiers are required to attend, and they can’t proselytize to soldiers.

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      A verse from a WWII sea shanty I learned as a kid from my dear ol’ sailor Dad:
      You go up to the chaplain when you think you’re gonna die.
      He’ll teach you how to beat the rap and live up in the sky.
      He’ll launderize your record so you’re clean as any lamb.
      The Navy goes to heaven, so he doesn’t give a damn.

  • John

    This is what he wrote on the Huffington Post: “I founded the civil rights fighting organization the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF) to do one thing: fight those monsters who would tear down the Constitutionally-mandated wall separating church and state in the technologically most lethal entity ever created by humankind, the U.S. military.

    Today, we face incredibly well-funded gangs of fundamentalist Christian monsters who terrorize their fellow Americans by forcing their weaponized and twisted version of Christianity upon their helpless subordinates in our nation’s armed forces. Oh my, my, my, how “Papa’s got a brand new bag.” ……http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-l-weinstein/fundamentalist-christian-_b_3072651.html
    Read more at http://global.christianpost.com/news/pentagon-hires-anti-conservative-activist-who-branded-fundamentalists-as-christian-monsters-95067/#abIPpTSoBPfrz5xF.99

  • JET

    What?! A right-wing fundamentalist trash rag spins rumor into incendiary conspiracy garbage? No way!

    • AugustineThomas

      I know.. It’s so much different when the New York Times lies though! (Lets just all generalize each other, that’ll make our country better!)

      • El Bastardo

        “New York Times lies” eh? Citation required,

        • Gus Snarp

          Well, the New York Times has certainly lied plenty of times, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judith_Miller#New_York_Times_career:_2002.E2.80.932005
          I just suspect that our Christian friend here thinks most of the lies were true, and the true things lies. They also have a history of firing the people who do the lying, even if they tend to do so late in the game and without sufficient introspection and contrition.

      • RobMcCune

        Never trust a news source that isn’t ranting and raving incoherently.

      • Spuddie

        Actually it is. Lying in the NYtimes is rare and officially forbidden. Christian Post makes lying a regular policy and seems to encourage it.

  • LesterBallard

    Is there a legal reason for redacting the email addresses? I sure as shit don’t care about any ethical reason. They put their shit out there, they should have to face up to the consequences of their bullshit.

    • ShoeUnited

      Legal reason? Since it’s third party (message was forwarded to Hemant) I believe there’s a level of protection of privacy involved. The writer did it with perceived intention of privacy, so sharing publicly could be construed as a form of defamation. IANAL though.

      Ethically it makes sense. Maybe the guy was high, maybe someone wrote under his account. Either way, those that post death threats shouldn’t be brought out publicly without a proper investigation. Presumed innocent until proven guilty is a good guideline, and the court of public opinion (mob rule) can be harmful in cases where all the circumstances are not known.

      Now I highly doubt Mikey replied in kind, but we don’t know for sure if there wasn’t an exchange that went on or not. And Mikey should report the email to the authorities, but we as normal persons don’t have a right to know. He doesn’t deserve a public attack anymore than he deserves to make a private attack.

    • baal

      Opening a harasser to blow back is known in legal circles as ‘self help’ and counts against the plaintiff in an anti-harassment action. If you want to sue someone later or maybe get a restraining order, you do not engage in self-help.

      That being said, it’s also a good idea to try less potentially disastrous options that would be foreclosed by publishing contact information. Also, publishing contact info can lead to escalation and if you’re getting death threats, escalation can be a very bad thing (even when you’re morally, legally and factually on the right side).

    • MarkSebree

      There is also another reason. If you go to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation website and look through the comments (under INBOX and at the bottom of the main page), you will find that ALL the comments except those from MRFF commenters and repliers like Blake Page and Mike Farrell (Yes, B.J. from MASH) have all their identifying information removed. That includes their names, emails, ranks, duty stations, years of service, and anything else that can identify them. This is true whether the email is from a client (over 90% of whom are Christians), supporter, or detractor. It is standard policy. Therefore, it is possible that the images set to Mr. Mehta already had the origins erased.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joe-Blowder/1569064314 Joe Blowder

    You Jews and Jew-lovers are going to kill the Christians. I want you to know how much I hate you filth.

    • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

      Gee, I’m really worried about how a complete racist feels.

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      Does your rabid hatred of Jews include Jesus of Nazareth?
      Wipe your chin.

    • Artor

      Do you say shit like that in public, or does the white sheet muffle your voice?

    • The Captain

      StormFront is that way—–>

      Trust me, you’ll feel more at home with that ignorant bunch of jack asses. you can plot the rise of the christian white race all day long while being the laughing stock of the internet all you want.

    • http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/ PsiCop

      Hmm. I smell a Poe.

      • RobMcCune

        Actually Mikey gets a lot of antisemitic email, probably from this guy.

    • WallofSleep

      You Dominionists and Dominionist-lovers are going to kill everyone who isn’t Christian, and then move on to killing all the Christians who aren’t Christian enough for your theocracy. I want you to know how much I hate your anti-American agenda.

    • RowanVT

      Do you hate Jesus? He was a jew….

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      Freedom of speech ain’t it grand

      • The Captain

        The irony here is some asshat flagged his comment for removal so it’s not currently up, so all our replies just look stupidly floating around in the ether.

  • busterggi

    Is it my imagination or do these righties sound as if calling someone a Jew is an insult?
    Funny, they claim to love Israel.

    • 3lemenope

      They love the part that Israel is to play in their anticipated orgy of destruction of the world, and the part that the people in it play in this story is, generally, to die horribly and then burn in a lake of fire.

      If that is loving Israel, it is the kind of love you don’t want to get on you.

      • AugustineThomas

        You believe you’re a self creating man god who came to earth with all the theists or else POOF appeared from thin air. Which is more silly?

        And anything is better than the real orgies of destruction that occur whenever an atheist like Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot gets in charge!

        • 3lemenope

          Well, that certainly is an entertaining, fascinating description of beliefs not mine.

          And apparently you never got the memo. The Hitler!Stalin!Mao!PolPot! argument is laughable to the point where the derision it receives outpaces the “but why are there still monkeys?!” argument.

        • Anon

          Hitler was Christian. Sorry.

          • Spuddie

            Stalin studied to be an Orthodox priest.

            • Silence Dogood

              And yet he never became a priest. You neglected to mention that Stalin was made to attend seminary by his mother, but quit and went off to join the revolutionaries because he was an egomaniac who believed the world owed him, and wanted their respect, wanted power, much like most liberal ideologues today. He was also a tried and true marxist “community organizer,” who put his cronies in power to be yes men, to support his inhumane and insane rise to power, but I know that doesn’t in any way resemble a practicing Christian, so atheist minded historical revisionists will always leave that out. Much the same as they leave out that the United States is founded upon Christian principles, by a majority of Christian men and women, who lived within and promoted a morally Christian worldview.

              Stalin was an egomaniac who rejected the religion of his mother and believed fully in the power he could gain from the state, which is why he literally forced his men to die for “Mother Russia.” He was a manipulative totalitarian dictator responsible for 50+ million dead because of his personal ambitions and failed Socialist/Communist policies.

              • Spuddie

                Stalin had no problems in bringing back religion when it suited him as well. Deeply held beliefs and ideology was for other people. Whatever could be used to justify his actions, was used. Not a sign of atheism, just egotism.

                Using his reign of terror as the textbook example of atheism run amok (as many do) is ahistorical, hackneyed and gets rather silly.It largely depends on people not really having a clue about history or what atheism actually is.

                Your attempt to link Stalin to Obama with “community organizer” is fucking laughable. You know nothing of the subject or as it seems any subject so far.

                The United States was not founded on “Christian Principles” or a “morally Christian world view”. I dare you to define those terms in a way that is not completely self-referential, nonsensical or reliant on fiction.

                The US was founded on the notion that it is not entangled or beholden with any religion and respects all of them. People like yourself who claim that their views are those of all Christians, despise such beliefs and actively oppose them. Instead of spouting revisionist nonsense open up an actual book once in a while.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  Atheists have tried to revise history and it simply doesn’t work. Our country was founded by deeply religious men most of whom were Christian with a few as deists. They founded the country on their Christian principles and that is why they wanted the freedom of religion- to be free to exercise their faith,not to be a secular nation.

                  Stalin wanted to create an atheist secular society that replaced faith in the government with faith in God. That cannot be denied.

                  You really should learn our history before you try to revise it.

                • Spuddie

                  Lying for Christ is well known. As is lying about American History to suit a theocratic agenda. You are using David Barton’s historical fictions (whether you realize it or not) as opposed to actual history.

                  Again, you cannot cough up an actual definition of “Christian principles”. So such claims are inherently dishonest on its face. Until you can come up with what “Christian principles” are and what is so uniquely Christian about them its just empty statements of no value.

                  Christianity in the early days of our nation went to extremes on two ends. You had puritans, your progenitors, theocrats who ruled as a 17th Century Taliban and you had secularists such as Roger Williams and William Penn.

                  You are talking out of both sides of your mouth when you discuss freedom of religion. There was nothing inherent to Christianity which has such concepts. Most “Christian Nations” were monarchies and engaged in sectarian discrimination at the time.

                  Freedom of religion came from secularist Anabaptists sects. But they were (and still are) a very small minority sect. One whose ideas are still not accepted by the majority of people calling themselves Christians. Like yourself.

                  You cannot protect the freedom of religion if the nation is beholden and entangled with a given faith and is not secular. Your version of freedom of religion is actually just freedom of your religion at the expense of others. Its bullcrap. Secularism, the separation of church and state protects both the government and religious interests from theocratic influence and sectarian discrimination.

                  As for Stalin, you know even less about him than you do American History. Stalin already ruled an atheist society. He didn’t create it. He just ran with it. As I mention for the 3rd time, atheism had little to do with it. He had no problem reviving the Orthodox Church when it was useful for national morale. Not really an adherence to an anti-theist ideology.

                  ALL dictators have issues with religion and attack it on a regular basis. The only exceptions are those dictators who are run by religious groups or those who have co-opted religious groups.

                  You don’t know a damn thing about history.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  I know my history what I don’t agree with is your attempt to revise it to support your atheist agenda It is false and agenda driven. It is not true history.

                • Spuddie

                  Coming from the guy who is more or less cribbing from one of the most notorious liars about US history. You may be unaware of it, but you are lifting arguments and rhetoric whole cloth from David Barton. His junk is so ingrained into the fundamentalist spiel most who quote him don’t even realize they are doing it. The only one engaging in revisionism is you.

                  If you bothered to read what I wrote, I even attributed secularism to religious ideas. Something which punctures the ignorant overused bullshit of “secularism = atheism”. Secularism, the separation of Church and State came from people who had a genuine belief in religious freedom. Not just the freedom of their sect at the expense of others (like your belief).

                  Its not my fault that your spiel is so knee-jerk that you refer to terms that aren’t even defined honestly. What are “Christian Principles”? And how is our nation founded upon them? You can’t answer such questions and avoid it because there is no such thing. Its a fiction said loudly and often enough that you think it means something.

                  I also can’t help it if your take on religious freedom is completely nonsensical. How do you protect religious freedom if government is entangled with a given faith? (ie not secular) You can’t. When government and religion are entangled, sectarian discrimination is always a result.

                  Your view only protect the rights of those who have already ensconced themselves within government. Freedom of religion means freedom of all religions. Not just Fundamentalist Christianity. Your take doesn’t even make sense on a basic level. Its theocratic anti-democratic nonsense.

                • AugustineThomas

                  Lying for godless secularism/leftism is even more well known.. And leftist secularists didn’t even invent modernity and add thirty years to the lives of the rest of the world like Christians did!

                  (All the increasingly atheist countries are dying and all the increasingly religious are thriving.)

                • Spuddie

                  Of course if you bothered to read my posts instead of flinging poo, you would know secularists predate modern notions of left and right wings.

                  You aren’t actually calling me out on anything I said or bothering to dispute it.

                • http://www.facebook.com/wcwalker1 William C. Walker

                  Our country was founded by Deists, Including Washington, Jefferson, Adams Madison, Monroe, John Quincy Adams, Franklin, Tom Paine & a host of others. ” The purpose of separation of church & state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife which has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries”. . Pres. James Madison

            • AugustineThomas

              Then he murdered fifty million innocent Orthodox men, women and children when he became atheist.

            • AugustineThomas

              Then he murdered fifty million innocent Orthodox men, women and children when he became atheist.

              • Spuddie

                Actually when he became an atheist he was just a bank robber and gangster. He killed 50 million people when he took power*. More power than any other dictator had exerted before. If you weren’t so beholden to such a stupid, ignorant and overused trope you would understand that ideology has nothing to do with how brutal dictators rule. A means to an end and something to tell the public to legitimize their power. The only ideology any dictator has ever really follows is, “all for me!”

                Attributing such ideas to atheism is simply what you tell yourself to ignore the centuries of murder in the name of the Christian God.

                *Technically about 2-3 million of them were not so innocent Nazis and collaborators.

          • TotalEclipse

            To be a Christian it takes more than just fancy talk. Yes he did state he was a Christian, but the proof is in the pudding. Hitler was a great manipulator of people and picked his battles carefully so his declaration was probably along those lines.

            Here are a 3 ways to tell he may have not been a real Christian.

            1) He tried to eradicate God’s chosen people which would of course proven the Bible to be fiction.

            2) He hated the Catholic church and wanted to kill the Pope and he did kill a whole bunch of priests and nuns.

            3) He declared the official religion of the country to be Nazism and removed Bibles from schools.

            A true Christian has to do more than just state they are one. They need to live as an example and love God with all their heart mind and strength. I for one don’t think Hitler quite lived up to that standard. Likewise the person that wrote that hate email in the article above probably would fall into the same category. Did anyone read that and see a Godly man?

            • Pepe

              We have a ‘No True Christian’ here.

              • Rwlawoffice

                What a silly response. Just because someone says they are a Christian doesn’t make them one. Just like someone can claim to be by when they aren’t. Does that profession make them gay? Or the other way around- how any times have you heard people professor be straight and when they announce they are gay they say all those other professions were false.

                Even if Hitler claimed to be a Christian he wasn’t practicing the Christian faith. Now if you can show me where Christianity teaches in the New testament that it is okay to kill 6 million Jews and others I would like to see it.

                • Pepe

                  Well you’re kinda proving my point. Everyone thinks they (and people who behave exactly the way they profess) are the only true “whatever”. Look up ‘no true Scotsman’ if you don’t quite understand what I was going for.

                • Rwlawoffice

                  I know very well the no true Scotsman argument. It just doesn’t fit here.

              • Spuddie

                Time to fill out those bingo squares.

          • GetRealDude

            “The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. Whenunderstanding of the universe has become widespread. Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity..
            Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity. And that’s why someday its structure will collapse. The only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little Christianity” (Adolph Hitler)

            What crack are you on dude?

            • TiltedHorizon

              Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf: “I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord’s work.” In 1938, he restated the same same words in a Reichstag speech.

              For any quote you can find to the contrary, I can find one supporting his view as a Christian. All this proves is the Hitler was a ‘great’ politician; willing invoke God’s name to gain support. Based on his own words, nothing is clear cut as to what Hitler truly believed. What is largely ignored is that Germany was predominantly Christian, his many speeches appealing to a divine mandate gathered Christians to his cause. All it took for Germany to turn a blind eye to the holocaust was to say it was the “Lord’s work”.

          • ryn_droma

            Germany was a predominately christian country at the time and many of the parties, including the Social Democrats which was a majority party, were deeply rooted in Catholicism. Add to that the fact Hitler promised the Catholic church he would leave them alone if they supported his party and you’ll see that he used the common faith, which happened to be Christianity, to bring about his own ends.

            Before you jump to conclusions on what happened in the past, it might just be worthwhile to read about it

          • rdominguez42

            Hitler was not Christian. He was a Roman Catholic all of his life. As a child he was an altar boy. He did not lack religion. He lacked obedience to the Word of God. Most likely he was not taught the Word of God.

          • scott

            no he wasnt, he was a pegan, well known fact.

          • AugustineThomas

            This shows how irrational you all are. Go search JSTOR.. There are plenty of scholarly articles on the fact that Hitler ended his relationship with Christianity not long after childhood and thought its leaders and followers to be superstitious, old fashioned and stupid–just like modern leftists like yourself.

          • Robin ErwoodWatson

            yeah right..he tried to make people think he was but not hardly. You are known by your fruits and his fruits say otherwise..

        • Gus Snarp

          Non sequitur much?

        • allein

          “or else POOF appeared from thin air.”

          I love seeing this sort of thing from people who believe their god did, indeed, poof everything in the universe from “thin air”…

          • JesusFreak =)

            ohhh so it just poofed on it’s own? wouldn’t you call that your own faith… hmmm never thought that deep about it did you..
            hey.. how do you know ceasar existed….. did you meet him? see a pic of him.. nope.. but you have faith he existed… don’tchya
            yeah.. we have the same proof Christ existed. Even historians accept that everything points to Him existing.. though they try to explain away the miracles He committed they do in fact accept Jesus DID exist. Silly you…. if people are killing each other over religion shouldn’t you at least know what’s going on???

            • allein

              I don’t know how the universe got here. I’m not a physicist or a cosmologist so I won’t be figuring that out any time soon. But I don’t need to posit a magic being who conjured it all out of nothing. I don’t have a problem with saying “I don’t know.” Maybe someday we’ll find out. That would be cool.
              .
              I don’t know if someone who people truly believed was the son of God actually existed, either. Some historians think yes, some think no, some think the evidence is inconclusive. We’ll never know for sure. But if he did exist, no, I don’t believe he was magic, either.

            • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

              Caesar had his face on coins (they’re even mentioned in your book, actually). We have physical evidence for the existence of Caesar (or, should I say, the Caesars), unlike Jesus. And no, historians do not universally think that Jesus existed, and certainly there is ample reason to think that if he did, the gospel accounts are highly mythologized.

            • http://www.facebook.com/wcwalker1 William C. Walker

              It’s interesting to note that there were over 20 Greek & Roman historians during the 1st century. NONE of them mention J.C> or any of the wonders he performed. On the other hand, everything in Xianity can be traced back to Babylonian mythology. Read a few bios on Emperor Constantine, also the whole bible.

          • AugustineThomas

            Nice strawman.
            I’m Roman Catholic. BXVI certainly didn’t believe the world just appeared from thin air–nor did Lemaitre. But if a being made the Milky Way, what would that being be incapable of?
            That being could make the Milky Way, but not flash create it if it wanted to?

            • allein

              What did he create it out of? Where did all the matter and energy come from? If it didn’t always exist, he must have created it from nothing. If it did always exist, why do we need God?

            • http://www.facebook.com/wcwalker1 William C. Walker

              Our Milky Way galaxy is estimated to ‘contain’ about 100 billion stars / suns ) The whole cosmos is said to consist about 100 BILLION galaxies. Consider that the creator sent his ONLY son to be tortured & killed on this piddling planet a couple millenia ago in a crummy little town in the Middle East. The odds against it are astronomical ! ( Former RC )

          • Robin ErwoodWatson

            he created the earth and everything in it including you and you sound really iimmature and really dumb to say it isnt so.
            “every knee shall bow”” that means you. DO it now or be forced to do it later.God sees you and everything you do or say…Who could create a solar system?? only God the Creator.. He is coming soon…

            • allein

              I don’t say “it isn’t so”; I say “I don’t see any reason to believe it is so.” Threatening me with things that I don’t believe to be true, on behalf of a being most Christians claim to believe is the only one who is qualified to judge me, and claiming that everyone has to believe the same as you doesn’t speak much to your own maturity level or intellect.

        • Matt D

          Compared to your murdering sociopathic deity, I’m a saint. And you sound like a fearful person if you think calling others “gods” is an insult.

        • Spuddie

          Gawd, will you guys open up a history book once in a blue moon!

          Hitler was not an atheist. Stalin went to Orthodox seminary and brought back the church when convenient, Pol Pot went to Catholic school.

        • Octoberfurst

          Again with the Stalin/ Mao/ Pol Pot/ Hitler was an atheist meme! Don’t you fundies ever get tired of bringing up that red herring? As others have stated Hitler was a Christian and Stalin almost became an Orthodox Priest. And even if they all were atheists they didn’t kill people because of their atheism. They killed people because of their ideology. Why can’t you get that through your thick skulls?

          • TotalEclipse

            Anyone who would say with a straight face that Hitler was a Christian doesn’t understand the slightest thing about Christianity. The post I made a little further up explains that as well as a couple others I read. One of the things our government practices *cough Obama cough* is to say something that isn’t true just to muddy the waters, and the people swallow it hook, line, and sinker. The reason why this works is because most people are too lazy to do their own homework, they listen to the media and believe everything they hear from it. Disinformation and misdirection are common tactics used by people who are ruthless or dishonest. While Hitler may have been insane he was smart and knew how to manipulate those he was trying to control. So his words may say he is a Christian, but his actions showed he was either self deceived or lying.

            • Red Mann

              Your ridiculous “No True Scotsman” fails on all counts. Hilter was a Christian because he said he was, many times. The Catholic hierarchy quickly submitted to him. Ever see the pictures of high ranking Catholics giving him the “Seig Hiel” salute. Obama is a Christian because he says he is. Just because he has the humanity to support homosexuals as real Americans and allows that women can make a legal choice on abortion does not make him a non-Christian. You don’t get to say who is or is not a true Christian, besides which of the thousand of different Christian sects is he or is he not? It is those who buy the nonsense from RW idiots like Breitbert et al who are disinformed and misdirected.

              • TotalEclipse

                I can not look into someone’s heart and see whether or not they are ANYTHING they say they are. But what I can do is see if their actions support what they are saying. In the case of Hitler he left us a ton of things to help us try to figure that out. The reason why Matthew 7:23 says “And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” is because many people who say they are Christians talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk. Fortunately I don’t have to judge anyone, but I can discern whether or not someone is telling me the truth without being their judge. And I think there is more than just a good chance Adolph will be told to “depart”.

                • Red Mann

                  If that was to actually happen, then huge numbers of those who believe themselves to be Christians would also be told to depart.

                • TotalEclipse

                  Yes, that’s exactly right. The Bible is very clear on that. Matthew 7 talks of two paths. One is the easy road with a wide gate that leads to destruction, the other is a difficult path with a narrow gate that leads to life. Many people are deceived into thinking the wide path is the one to take.

                • Red Mann

                  Still, the point is, according to your religion, only God can know what is in men’s heart. Man himself is not competent to judge others for things spiritual, although many sanctimonious self-described Christians are all too happy to do so. Within the bounds of your religion, no human can say whether another is a true Christian. Did you look up the “No True Scotsman” fallacy?

                • TotalEclipse

                  Does it help your argument out to have Hitler be a Christian? Or is it just an argument point and you don’t like to loose? I just keep trying to say if he was a Christian his life’s work didn’t show it so I doubt it. That isn’t me doing anything other than using my God given brain to discern facts. Yes I do understand your “No True Christian” would do that argument. Believe it or not I have actually had the thought (before this) that even Hitler could be in Heaven. If I were a Las Vegas bookie I wouldn’t give that high odds. I’m running out of ways to say the same thing.

                • Red Mann

                  Nope, I don’t care if Hitler was a Christian, Pagan or some combination thereof, or none of the above. It’s that Hitler is one of the un-holy quartet flaunted by Christian to prove the evilness of atheism; Hitler, Stalin, Mao tse-Tung and Pol Pot. When it is pointed out that Hitler claimed to be s Christian, we get the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Since I don’t have any reason to believe that there is a heaven or a hell, I doubt Hitler is in either, just dead. This is about the common religious argument that being an atheist makes you evil and immoral, and, oh yeah, unhappy, getting no joy from life.

                • TotalEclipse

                  Well dang, why didn’t you say that from the start it would have simplified this. My point was simply to say that you can’t judge a group by a few extremists (labeling Adolph as a Christian) and that saying, is not the same as doing. I support your argument that being an atheist doesn’t make anyone a bad person.

                • Red Mann

                  Who is trying to tie Christianity to Hitler’s behavior? My argument is against using Hitler as an example of atheism by so many Christians. If I have seen this argument once, I’ve seen it a thousand times. There is a notion amongst too many Christians that, by definition, all Christians are moral because of God and no atheist can ever be moral because of lack of God. Still, when we bring up bad Christian behavior, we get “well, so and so is not a true Christian.”

              • rdominguez42

                Jesus said: “if you love me, keep my commandments.” He also said: By this shall they know that you are my disciples, that you have love for one another.” He also said, “you shall know them by their fruits.” It boils down to this: If a person claims to be a Christian; his/her claim will be substantiated by 3 main factors…1) His/her love for Jesus 2) His/her love for others 3) His/her knowledge of, AND OBEDIENCE TO the Word of God.

                • Red Mann

                  You just eliminated all those who send hateful messages to Mr. Weinstein, telling him that he, his wife and children should die. These people think of themselves a Christians. so does Fred Phelps, Bryan Fischer, David Barton, Tony Perkins and an endless supply of Christians who use lies and deceit in the name of their Christ. I don’t think you get to decide who is or isn’t a Christian, just someone who isn’t their kind of Christian.

      • Hahaha

        Off topic and ridiculous. Your creating a monster that isn’t there and your opinion has no more ground to stand on than does the Christian Post’s. If you’re so concerned stop wasting everyone on this posts time with your fantasies and find a bomb shelter to hide in, or build one.

        • 3lemenope

          So now you’re claiming pious Christians *don’t* believe in Revelation? It is part of the canon, right? I’m so confused.

      • Robin ErwoodWatson

        guess what pal, what ever you do to the Jews or Israel will be done back to you..happened in the past and will happen again. Better think about it…

        • Robin ErwoodWatson

          including saying negative things

          • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

            Oh no, people will say negative things! You might want to try more effective threats.

    • AugustineThomas

      I think it’s your imagination.. That’s where all your leftist myths come from.

      • baal

        Reality, unlike your god, is not a myth.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001951614348 Rogue Rose

      Way to believe lies without checking out the facts for yourself. But don’t let that stop you from attacking anyone. Breitbart never said he was hired.. they said he was consulted… and all they did was accurately quote Weinstein’s own words.. like this one…

      “Today, we face incredibly well-funded gangs of fundamentalist
      Christian monsters who terrorize their fellow Americans by forcing their
      weaponized and twisted version of Christianity upon their helpless
      subordinates in our nation’s armed forces.”

      Doesn’t sound like he’s the person to consult about religious tolerance to me.

      • Red Mann

        He sounds exactly like the right person to consult. Evangelical proselytizing is rampant in the US Military and is a cancer that is weaking our country. His statement is entirely correct and he wasn’t consulted, he asked to talk to them. You need to brush up on the antics of Jerry Boykins, retired General, who is a mouthpiece for the Family Research Council and the Oak Initiative both RW religious hate groups.

        • TotalEclipse

          I was on the Southern Poverty Law Center’s website just a few days ago reading what they had to say against the Family Research Council and their main beef with them is the fact that the FRC is very outspoken about homosexuality. The SPLC is all about teaching tolerance, but what does that really mean? Tolerance is the respect for others beliefs, as long as those beliefs don’t contradict those of the SPLC. I remember a story a while back where a man went to their hate map on the website and found the location of an office of the FRC and went there with a semi-automatic pistol 100+ rounds of ammo and 15 Chick-fil-A sandwiches intent on killing everyone in the place and stuffing the sandwiches in their mouths after they were dead. Now I know that we can not judge any organization or religion by a few extremists, but I can’t help but wonder if the SPLC should put themselves on their own hate map? Hmmm…

          • Red Mann

            The reason SPLC put them on their list is because FRC uses debunked and phoney research to support their anti-homosexual agenda. We don’t have to tolerate those who use lies. One guy goes offline because he’s sick of the hateful lies of FRC and that means SPLC is at fault for pointing out the truth. That is a remarkably long stretch. As for respect, you are to be given respect only for holding your beliefs, your beliefs themselves don’t have to be respected.

            • TotalEclipse

              So your saying the argument is really about methodology and that if the SPLC doesn’t approve it lands you on a hate map? I noticed the disclaimer at the bottom of the map that says “Listing here does not imply a group advocates or engages in violence or other criminal activity.” OK, so if being on the map doesn’t mean a group is doing anything wrong then it may well stem from a difference of opinion. It’s a common tactic to say that anyone that doesn’t agree with someones politics makes a person (insert your favorite derogatory term here). For example if a white male speaks out about the president he could be labeled a “racist” and nothing he can ever do or say will erase that label. He’s a racist and belongs on a hate map but his “crime” is a difference of opinion.

              I have my doubts that the FRC should be on the same map categorized in the same light as, say, a Neo-Nazi for example. And the reason I brought up the Chick-fil-A shooter is because of the consequences of being on that map can bring down upon you. And NO I’m not implying that the SPLC is liable I’m saying that at best some organization on the map will receive a lot of hate mail and on the darker side it gets their people killed, or at least shot (since no one died during that shooting). I think keeping a group on the map when they are there for a difference of opinion makes the SPLC a hate group. So my question is valid, should the SPLC put themselves on their own hate map?

              • Red Mann

                It has nothing to do with SPLC’s approval, nor is it to do with a political stance. FRC IS a hate group. They use lies and distortions to denigrate an entire group of people. Perkins et al are always on about this or that research that shows something bad about homosexuals. There have been instances where the actual researchers have told FRC to stop misrepresenting their work. Some “research” like that done by Paul Cameron is simply lies, the Regnerus study was so flawed that it was condemned by almost all sociologists. A white make speaking about the current President is not automatically called a racist, but when he makes racist remarks like calling him “boy”, “manchild” and even more denigrating names, then yeah, I guess he would be called a racist. The right’s continuous labeling of Mr. Obama as “Muslim”, “Marxist”, “Kenyan”, “Usurper”, “Messiah”, “Tyrant” and other epithets are really just dog whistles for “There’s a damn black man in the White House and he doesn’t belong there.”
                “I think we are inviting God’s judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, ‘We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,’ and I pray God’s mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about,” said Dan Cathay which is a decidedly antihomosexual attitude that many Americans rejected. As I said before, your belief that your god and your religion are somehow the “True” religion does not give you the right to condemn others based on those beliefs.
                In America today, the political right and the religious right have become inextricably entwined. The right seems to be on a mission to break down Jefferson’s “Wall of Separation”. For my money, Obama is way to far into religious entanglement. Nothing good has ever come from the mixing of state and religion.
                If you wish to talk about encouragement to violence, spend a little time listening to Alex Jones, Glen Beck, World Net Daily and many, many others. The talk of “2nd Amendment” solutions is common on the right.

                • TotalEclipse

                  There have been a lot of ideological walls constructed that have wide reaching implications. There is a wall of race, wall of separation of church and state, wall between left and right, etc. Some attempt to tear down walls and others fortify them. The wall I want to first address is the wall of race, which is a wall that Obama is happy to fortify. Case in point: African Americans for Obama. When someone first told me that I said “oh, that’s not true, he wouldn’t do that” only to find out that it really was! Not only was it low and underhanded it was racist. If you don’t think so then it would have been just as correct for Romney to have a White Americans for Romney campaign. I can only imagine the deafening screaming that would STILL be going on. Another example: What was the lapdog medias easiest way to try to silence Ron Paul when he was attempting to win the republican nomination for president? Answer: Play the race card. I would like someone to show me 1 example of him being a racist, but the mere allegation made it so in the mind’s of the people and did it’s job by weakening him. I have seen a lot of examples of race being inserted where it shouldn’t even be an issue just to fortify that wall.

                  You said “The right’s continuous labeling of Mr. Obama as “Muslim”, “Marxist”, “Kenyan”, “Usurper”, “Messiah”, “Tyrant” and other epithets are really just dog whistles for “There’s a damn black man in the White House and he doesn’t belong there.”” That is not true for me and for a lot of others out there. Those type of “blanket arguments” should be avoided. There is a very important case going through the Alabama Supreme Court right now on an issue that maybe you are following and maybe not. It is about the forgery and cover-up involving the fake birth certificate that the White House put up on their website. Mike Zullo is doing outstanding work attempting to bring the truth to light. I have watched the press conferences and listened to the interviews and I believe Arpaio and Zullo are right. But this birth certificate is just the tip of the iceberg but don’t have the time to go into things like Benghazi and others.

                  You said ”Nothing good has ever come from the mixing of state and religion.” The United States of America which includes our Constitution and Bill of Rights, is a result of the mixing of state and religion. This country was rather prosperous before we decided God had no place in it. And before you correct me by saying something like no one is trying to remove God from it, I would say that yes, that is exactly what is going on. It’s like the second amendment, the haters of liberty can not just do away with it. They have to chip away at it piece by piece, using every excuse they can find until one day it is so weakened it blows away with a mild breeze. Let’s say it was legal for people when they visit the Washington Monument to chip a piece off to take home as a souvenir. Is it logical to say that some day there would be no monument left? That is exactly what is happening with our right and with religious freedom. When the ACLU can drive down the road and just SEE a cross and scream bloody murder until it is removed it is just another piece chipped off. The constitution isn’t a guarantee to never be offended, in fact it is exactly the opposite. If there is true freedom of speech then it is a guarantee to occasionally BE offended.

                • Red Mann

                  There should not be any walls between left and right or between races, of course the concept of race has no scientific meaning. You seem concerned that African-Americans have identified themselves as a group while white folks supposedly can’t. White folks don’t really need to organize such a group because white people already have a privileged position in this country, holding most of the important positions, of course blacks have made progress towards achieving equality, which is a good thing. You need to give me some citation of Obama playing the race card in the way you have claimed. The type of name calling I referenced is prevalent throughout right wing websites and blogs, said by thousands, not a handful.
                  I’m sorry, but Mike Zullo is just another deranged birther. There is nothing to support this nonsense, no fake birth certificate, no Kenyan women testifying that Obama was born in Kenya. It’s all delusional attempts to claim that the black man doesn’t belong in the White House. Benghazi has been investigated by reliable committees and while the findings have indicated that mistakes were made at various levels, there is zero evidence that there was any cover-up by the administration nor to support the ridiculous and insulting change that a sitting president deliberately let Americans die or that he showed any lack of concern. The Republicans along with Fox News have been trying desperately to create a scandal where none exists to further a political agenda.
                  What government officials have said God has no place in our country? Certainly not the current administration. Just because some Christians particular agendas (gays and abortion) are not matched by Obama doesn’t mean he’s any less of a Christian, plenty of Christians are not as anti-abortion and anti gay as others. What you perceive as trying to remove God, is that the privilege of Christians to preach anywhere, at anytime has been restricted in any government supported or sponsored functions like schools, town meeting etc. By the Constitution, the government can’t support any one religion over another, so who decides which religions are allowed in schools and which god or gods get prayed to at town meetings. Why do we need to teach religious beliefs in schools or pray at government functions in the first place. Churches, private meetings and homes are the places for those kinds of things.
                  People, like me, who are for some reasonable, rational gun control are not haters of liberty trying to do away with the 2nd Amendment, and your piece by piece analogy fails.
                  Again, you have lost no religious rights and freedoms whatsoever, you just have to let others have their own beliefs or non-beliefs. The ACLU does not scream bloody murder every time “they” see a cross. they support citizens who object to government entanglement. Not everyone wants to see crosses on government property because that implies that the government is supporting Christianity over all other religions. By the way the ACLU has gone to bat for religious rights dozens, if not hundreds, of times, standing up to schools that try to limit students rights to express their religion and fighting local governments that try to restrict the rights of street preachers.
                  Your last sentence is ironically true but it is mostly the Christians who want to be protected from any offense.

                • TotalEclipse

                  Seriously that example I gave wasn’t good enough? I suppose it really doesn’t matter, nothing ever gets solved in the comment section of a website anyway lol. I make a point to read the comments after most YouTube videos I watch and the state our world in brings me down, but only for a short time because I have remarkable powers to bounce back and stay motivated. But alas, I have so much I need to be doing and posting here is taking away from that so I am going to depart (no cheering please). I truly do want to be the voice of reason and offer a different viewpoint on things. People get so caught up in their opinions that they see the world with blinders on (I’m speaking in general here not specifically to you). But I do want to just say one other thing before I go. You may not get it, or it may not make sense, or you may just reject it outright, but I truly believe it.

                  No matter what religion a person believes in it requires faith and ours, the religion of Christianity and the religion of Atheism, are no different in that respect. OK, now you just said, “Atheism is not a religion” to which I say, “yes it is.” Atheism is a Godless religion and it requires more faith than Christianity. Did you know that no matter what a person believes something has to exist outside creation? In my religion God exists outside creation in order to have created the heavens and the Earth. In the Atheist religion the big bang was not the beginning of the universe, because if there was really nothing then nothing is all there could ever be. Something would have had to exist outside that event for it to have exploded into existence. Are you with me so far? Both models of the creation of the universe have to have something exist outside the creation event itself. If you disagree you can stop reading here because the rest would be pointless.

                  For you and I to be here having this conversation we had to be created.

                  In my model – God created us.

                  In the Atheist Model – (as per NewScientist magazine) Water percolated down into newly formed rock under the seafloor, where it reacted with minerals such as olivine, producing a warm alkaline fluid rich in hydrogen, sulphides and other chemicals – a process called serpentinisation. This hot fluid welled up at alkaline hydrothermal vents like those at the Lost City, a vent system discovered near the Mid-Atlantic Ridge in 2000. Unlike today’s seas, the early ocean was acidic and rich in dissolved iron. When upwelling hydrothermal fluids reacted with this primordial seawater, they produced carbonate rocks riddled with tiny pores and a “foam” of iron-sulphur bubbles. Inside the iron-sulphur bubbles, hydrogen reacted with carbon dioxide, forming simple organic molecules such as methane, formate and acetate. Some of these reactions were catalysed by the iron-sulphur minerals. Similar iron-sulphur catalysts are still found at the heart of many proteins today. The electrochemical gradient between the alkaline vent fluid and the acidic seawater leads to the spontaneous formation of acetyl phosphate and pyrophospate, which act just like adenosine triphosphate or ATP, the chemical that powers living cells. These molecules drove the formation of amino acids – the building blocks of proteins – and nucleotides, the building blocks for RNA and DNA. Thermal currents and diffusion within the vent pores concentrated larger molecules like nucleotides, driving the formation of RNA and DNA – and providing an ideal setting for their evolution into the world of DNA and proteins. Evolution got under way, with sets of molecules capable of producing more of themselves starting to dominate. Fatty molecules coated the iron-sulphur froth and spontaneously formed cell-like bubbles. Some of these bubbles would have enclosed self-replicating sets of molecules – the first organic cells. The earliest protocells may have been elusive entities, though, often dissolving and reforming as they circulated within the vents. The evolution of an enzyme called pyrophosphatase, which catalyses the production of pyrophosphate, allowed the protocells to extract more energy from the gradient between the alkaline vent fluid and the acidic ocean. This ancient enzyme is still found in many bacteria and archaea, the first two branches on the tree of life. Some protocells started using ATP as well as acetyl phosphate and pyrophosphate. The production of ATP using energy from the electrochemical gradient is perfected with the evolution of the enzyme ATP synthase, found within all life today. Protocells further from the main vent axis, where the natural electrochemical gradient is weaker, started to generate their own gradient by pumping protons across their membranes, using the energy released when carbon dioxide reacts with hydrogen. This reaction yields only a small amount of energy, not enough to make ATP. By repeating the reaction and storing the energy in the form of an electrochemical gradient, however, protocells “saved up” enough energy for ATP production. Once protocells could generate their own electrochemical gradient, they were no longer tied to the vents. Cells left the vents on two separate occasions, with one exodus giving rise to bacteria and the other to archaea.

                  Etc, etc, etc… I’ll attempt to shorten this a bit.

                  Now that life is past the goo stage (that’s a technical term lol) comes the long arduous journey over millions of years from being bacteria to finally mutating into the ruggedly handsome men and curvaciously (I don’t think that is really a word) beautiful women that we, as mankind, truly are. You can thank me later for shortening that or you would have been here for a while.

                  I ask you, which takes more faith to believe? You don’t have to answer me, just think about it.

                • Red Mann

                  While your, or any religious person’s religion, requires faith, atheism does not. “Faith is believing in things unseen yet hoped for is” a definition I’ve heard, however my view of faith is believing something for no reason except you believe it. Usually belief is based on your upbringing, people tend to take on the religion of their parents. Atheism is not any kind of religion, I don’t believe that there is no god, to me there is no reason to believe in a god, there is no actual evidence that can be tested or falsified, everything we know about the natural world can be explained without a recourse to a god. I was raised as a Christian so it’s not like I haven’t heard the “Good News”, I have many, many times. Christians try to use Pascal’s Wager as evidence that atheists must have faith that god does not exist, but that wager fails on various grounds. You can believe your God created the universe and everything in it, but you have zero evidence for it, just belief in the stories you have been told. Science, which does not mean atheism, has evidence in abundance, but science, actually the scientific method, does not prove anything. The scientific method gives us the best answers based on what we know.
                  You consistently conflate science and atheism, you are making a category error. There is no “Atheist model”. The scientific method entails hypothesis making, test formulation, testing, analyzing results, adjusting the hypothesis if necessary, testing and more testing until the hypothesis cannot be shown to be false. If new evidence is found, the whole process starts again. In the end nothing has been proven, just shown to be most likely true.
                  The big bang theory, which is one of several theories of the formation of our universe, is not part of the non-existent “Atheist religion”. It has been postulated based on actual observations of our universe as it exists today. You could read “A Universe from Nothing: Why There Is Something Rather than Nothing” by Lawrence Krauss.
                  You then go into a detailed, though somewhat wrong, discussion of abiogenisis (which is a whole separate issue from evolution), then evolution it self, all the while conflating them with geology. Everything that has been discovered and everything that has been seen supports the conclusions that the theory of evolution describes. All fields of scientific inquiry converge the form this theory with remarkable agreement. If you want to know what evolution is really about try “Why Evolution is True” by Jerry Coyne or “Your Inner Fish” by Neil Shubin, discover of the Tiktallik fossil which shows elements of a fish and a land animal. That would be one of the many transitional fossils that creationists deny the existence of. Instead of relying of the deliberate misrepresentation of science by many religious sources, you should really try to find the actual truth of science.
                  Your model says some invisible, all powerful being poofed the universe and everything in it into existence in six days. Whether the days were 24 hours or some other length depends on the particular religious belief, but there is no way to test any of this, in fact there is no way to make any of this even an hypothesis. Your are excepting this on blind faith. Actually, Victor Stenger, a physicist, wrote a book “God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist” that explores the attempt to form an hypothesis for creation.
                  So apparently you find it more reasonable to except a magical poofing of everything into existence by some unseen, unknowable super wizard than a well understood, well supported set of theories that describe the creation of the universe in a rational fashion.
                  Since you are too busy to continue this conversation, I’ll be signing off too, but it has been interesting “talking” with you.

          • Victoria 1

            As I understand it, the problem with the Family Research Council is that they lie. They use outdated research, theories that have been disproved, and debunked data. They also violate the most basic rule of research, they decide on the conclusion they want before they start to look for evidence. That isn’t how you do research

            Also, there is a difference between tolerating someone, and tolerating someone’s desire to restrict or attack someone else. In other words, I tolerate people of different religions, I don’t tolerate a group trying to discriminate against specific religious groups. See the difference?

            Obviously, the attack you describe was terrible, but I don’t see how the SPLC can be held responsible for it, unless you want to go after every church preaching against homosexuality for the next anti-gay hate crime.

      • Spuddie

        Breitbart media is not known for factual accuracy by any stretch of the imagination. Unfortunately Weinstein’s portrayal is entirely on point. Fundamentalist Christians are undermining the morale and cohesion of the military through organized activities. They have little to no regard for the Constitution and civil liberties and are known for using coercive methods.

    • John

      “Righties” and yourself a “lefty” are all equally sheep. This debate itself a mockery. If we were truly a religiously tolerant nation, the need to argue about religion all the time would be null and void. The fact is that you, yourself just like the Christians can’t leave this issue alone, because you like them are just as anti freedom of religion. Americans are taught that they should get everything their way all the time, why is you forcing your views upon Christians any different than Christians forcing theirs on you? Just because it’s your beliefs, whatever they may be, I’m sure they are equally as ridiculous as Christianity is. Institutionalized religion itself is a coping mechanism for the rigors of life. That includes Scientology, Evolution, Atheism and all of the other beliefs and yes Atheism is just as ridiculous as all the rest of them, because you’ve institutionalized and labeled yourself as a believer of nothing. When Americans begin to think for themselves and not allow their opinions to be swayed by politics, when they stop grouping themselves into laughable “parties” like the republican and democratic and when they stop getting in small little pissing matches on blogs, because they are at home with nothing better to do than ridicule one another for being sheep, like calling the kettle black, then possibly we can be a strong country again.

      P.S. If you want anyone to respect what you have to say, try less sarcasm and petty squabbling as it makes you and your opinion look weak and pathetic and it makes your views look ridiculous and like they have no ground to stand on. Although this is most likely true of your opinions you could try to disguise it better.

      • John

        This issue is not about right and left wing politics. This issue is religious freedom, for those who practice institutionalized religion and those who don’t. I personally could care less about any of the people on this websites religious views and beliefs, but I do care about maintaining Constitutional Rights. The facts are that Mikey Weinstein talked to the Pentagon about preventing forced practicing of religious ordinances, he didn’t say anything about preventing Christians from practicing their religion, but rather from forcing their religion down other peoples throats by government employees to their subordinates. The Christians responded that this was against their freedoms of religion somehow and their media twisted it all about to make it seem like it was unconstitutional. However spreading the gospel, or whatever it is that they do is practicing their religion freely and as long as it is not employer to employee manipulation, you have the right to say no and get away from me at anytime without negative consequences. There is nothing unconstitutional about that, what the issue is, is whether or not it is unconstitutional to mandate your soldiers, or marines to participate in prayers, for the sole reason that they are your subordinates and there will be negative consequences if you don’t participate.

      • Red Mann

        Sorry, it is a left/right thing. The Right Wing of this country, ie Republicans have deliberately tied themselves to fundamentalist Christians, not moderate Christians. This was a cynical political move to get their votes by promising to implement the religious right’s agenda, then not doing it. But now, more and more Republican politicians are fundamentalists themselves. We can’t leave the issue alone because there is an extremely well funded, politically connected movement to move this country towards theocracy, all that is needed is for people to do and say nothing. Check out “The Good News Club” by Katherine Stewart, look up the New Apostolic Reformation at Talk2Action, read some of the stuff on RightWingWatch then come back and tell us we should leave things alone.
        When faced with the hyper-serious beliefs of many fundamentalist Christian, scarcsm is one of the best tools we have, pointing and laughing at such self important nonsense is very effective.

  • onamission5

    Jewish guy unapologetically calling power hungry charlatans on their shit, and organizing other people to also call them on their shit? Christians can’t have that, now can they. /irony

    • AugustineThomas

      You should be careful about believing everything one group of people tells you.

      I would be afraid if you believed everything you heard at church and I’m afraid that you seem to believe everything you’ve heard at leftist university or from leftist friends.

      It’s good to argue with yourself. If you’re always just congratulating yourself for being right you’ll end up as out of touch as so many of these angry atheists who can’t figure out why no more than 1-3% of society will join them.

      • El Bastardo

        Wow, you’re not only wrong, but it appears willingly deluded.

        Why do you assume every atheist is “leftist”? Or went to a “leftist university” or has only “leftist friends”.

        Methinks the christian conservative protests too much. Trolling on an atheist blog isn’t checking all sides of a story, nor is making baseless claims without any citations or facts in anyways a convincing argument.

        If you stepped outside your echo chamber and actually had a discussion rather than just pontificating on posts and running you’d see that atheists aren’t angry at all. We’re also closer to 15% of the populous and growing faster than any religion.

        Ironic (and sad) that you’re the one who is wrong and out of touch.

        • Spuddie

          “Why do you assume every atheist is “leftist”? Or went to a “leftist university” or has only “leftist friends”.”

          Well when one spends their life and education being insulated from the rest of the world as many Evangelical Christians do these days, its easy to assume everyone else is the same way.

      • baal

        MRFF has been providing actual evidence of actual cases of establishment clause violations. I don’t have to believe them through an act of faith. I can go look at the evidence.

      • Red Mann

        Yeah, facts have a leftist bias. We can’t have rationality overcoming supersition now can we.

    • Spuddie

      LOL. Obviously Augustine missed the reference. ;)

      • onamission5

        I know! Sheesh. Thought it was obvious enough but then the irony tag…. he’s got no excuse. That’s just being willfully obtuse. ;)

  • Miss_Beara

    Jewish activist? Is that similar to Atheist activist? Do they like to attach activist to things they feel threatened by?

    • http://friendlyatheist.com Richard Wade

      Well, we’re talking about the military, so they’re avoiding saying “militant” just in this case.

    • AugustineThomas

      Who is threatened by Jews other than the leftists who constantly badmouth Israel?

      • El Bastardo

        Again, citation required.

      • Spuddie

        Yet it is not uncommon for evangelicals to use the term as a pejorative.

      • Red Mann

        Fundamentalists only need Israel so that that their beloved end-of-the-world fantasies can come true when Jesus comes back and slaughters non-believers by the billions, then casting them into the lake of fire for all eternity. They really believe that all Jews that don’t convert to Christianity will burn with the rest of us. Look up John Hagee’s preaching sometime.

  • John l

    For your information Salon Magazine was the first one to cover the story—not Breibart. Salon happens to be a left-wing rag. Weinstein is an anti- Christian piece of shit. He read his Talmud well—–speaking of racist, hate filled antiChristian, anti-gentile Crap! He might want to clean up his own bigotred, Judaic supremacist religion before lecturing Christians on what they should believe religion-wise

    • RobMcCune

      Anti-theocrat does not equal anti-christian, however much you to spew antisemitism for not getting your way.

    • John D. Fiat

      Exactly. Everything is so anti-White and anti-Christian these days. If a Black Panther intimidates Caucasian voters it’s only because he has Black Pride. However, if a Caucasian had done the same to a black or other non-white, it would have been deemed a hate crime (and of course, the Jews at the ADL and SPLC get to decide what that means). I hate it when Israel-Firster piece of shits stick their nose in U.S. business (especially in our military’s). When I was in the Army we even prayed in formation sometimes (usually after the death of one of our troops and occasionally around Christmas). Remember, the military is not subject to the laws of the Republic. In the military, the majority truly does rule, and most members are Christian (Deal with it!) It is not a place for Khazzar pussies. This piece of shit fake Jew needs to go back home and fight it out with the Georgians!

      • RowanVT

        So… if most of the members of the army became Muslim, you’d be fine with being made to pray to Allah?

        • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

          And like a christian you Erma the Troll have no freewill to stop yourself from responding.

          • RowanVT

            I’m… not Erma? And I’m an atheist?

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

              yea I don’t know what is wrong with my browser but everytime I refresh, the browser replaces your name with Erma and then back, it’s frakken gettin annoying to say the least

      • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

        Erma is a troll. Nothing more. Just here to waste our time.

      • Spuddie

        Sorry if white and christian privilege doesn’t go as far as it used to. I guess people just got tired of pale ignorant bible thumping rednecks telling them what to do.

        Is there a reason you are not on Stormfront right now with your buddies? I am sure you are less likely to be ridiculed over there.

        We are all thankful you are no longer in the Army. You are a disgrace to the oath you swore to protect.

      • Matt D

        You really need to grow a pair before you start grabbing them.

      • Red Mann

        That’s right, a huge group of two New Black Panthers stood outside a polling station. One was armed with, gasp, a nightstick. Strangely enough, there were no complaints from actual voters, just a right leaning news crew.
        When you prayed in formation is was unconstitutional, but what’s the Constitution to an anti-semite hater like you.

    • rhodent

      “For your information Salon Magazine was the first one to cover the story—not Breibart.”

      Really? I see no mention of Salon in the Breitbart article, and a Google search of “salon weinstein pentagon” turns up nothing from the past five years. Can you provide a link to show that it was indeed Salon that claimed the Pentagon has hired Weinstein?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1604601046 Linda White Eade

        In 2006: http://www.salon.com/2006/12/13/weinstein_3/
        Apparently, you didn’t do a very thorough search. Took Salon and Mikey Weinstein to come up with the article.

        • rhodent

          The issue is not how thorough my search was, but how thorough your reading comprehension is. I said my search turned up nothing from the past five years; 2006 was more than five years ago. Since the claim here is that Salon first reported on something that supposedly happened in the past few weeks, a story from 2006 can not possibly be relevant.

    • Red Mann

      Wow, did you get all that from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion?

  • Matthew in Ohio

    If it’s okay to practice our religion, then it’s okay to share our faith openly, with anyone, including superiors and subordinates. Practicing and sharing are the same thing in this case. The Great Commission is to go into the world and preach the gospel of Christ. We know that we must obey God rather than men.

    • allein

      Not if that includes requiring your subordinates to practice along with you.

      (Good luck trying that on a superior officer, though…)

      • Matthew in Ohio

        Then let the persecution begin. I volunteer to be first in line.
        “To live is Christ, to die is gain.” (Philippians 1:21)

        • Embrace Reason

          Wait, are you saying you’re being “persecuted” because you can’t force someone (especially over whom you have authority) to worship as you do?

          “Help, my rights to infringe on other people’s rights are being violated!”

          Beyond ridiculous argument. And profoundly un-American.

          • TotalEclipse

            His comment wasn’t an argument it was a statement. He’s saying he wouldn’t mind being persecuted for his beliefs and he would consider it an honor to die for them.

            • Artor

              Yes, but he has a juvenile and absurd idea of what constitutes persecution. I’d love to educate him.

            • RobMcCune

              Not surprising, the only thing people like that fetishize more than authority is martyrdom.

              It’s living among others that they find intolerable.

        • http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/ PsiCop

          So it’s “persecution” whenever someone chooses not to listen to you blather on about Jesus? Really!?

        • Catherine

          Amen

        • allein

          You have fun with that, then.

    • Artor

      Hey, my religion calls for offering Xians up as blood-eagle sacrifices to Odin. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_eagle) Will you volunteer to be my sacrifice, or are you going to persecute me by refusing?
      Seriously, that is the stupidest argument ever. Please crawl in a hole & die.

      • Erma

        Christians don’t force u to do anything. Christians share the Gospel and you except it or you don’t. Odin is dead as the tree you say you are born from. Now that’s lame..

        • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

          So there are no christian lobbyists and politicians making laws banning abortion?

          So there are no christians requiring admissions of faith as a requirement for public office?
          So there are no christian public officers i.e. city counsels requiring people to sit through prayers or who are placing religious iconography on public lands?
          Is this what you mean by not being forced?

          • Erma

            If you didn’t want a baby why did you get her pregnant? Now you go and kill your baby. After all is said and done Jesus will be ruler of the new kingdom. You perish for lack of knowledge. And I hope you do learn. We all are sinners and we all need forgbeneath.
            Sin destroys.

            • WallofSleep

              Some couples want a baby, and still have to abort to save the life of the mother. This may not be common, but it should never be ignored or diminished. For this reason, and others, abortion must remain legal.

              • Erma

                Abortion doctorsare greedy for money.. All babies go to heaven but th Dr. better repent. and ask for forgives.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  Can you prove that all babies go to heaven or for that matter if heaven even exists?

                • Erma

                  As far as the eye can see.. The baby never sinned his parentsdid.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  Erma why are some babies born Buddhist or Muslim? Or some other religion? If your god and Jesus are the one true god(lol) then wouldn’t it be true that all babies are born christian?

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  What if the zygote became cancerous would you still force the woman to full term possibly killing her?

                  Would you force a woman who was raped to carry the child to full term?
                  Would you force a woman who has a severe developmental disability to carry a child to full term?

                  Would you force a 50 year old woman, who did not have menopause, to full term because it was an accidental pregnancy?

                • RowanVT

                  Of course they would. We wimmins are only there to house the uterus. We’re not important at all, and our wellbeing, both physical and mental, is trivial.

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  Take your meds please.

                • RowanVT

                  Sarcasm detection fail? O_o

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  Not anymore

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  @e8a6ecaed158371e96b009b9720179b9:disqus for some reason your name and Erma’s name was reading the same on my browser so I just though you were her him or whom ever and maybe you are.

                • RowanVT

                  Okay, yeah. It’s been having issues lately. I posted a comment once a few days ago and it said Chas Peterson made it. Very confused.

                • baal

                  “The baby never sinned”
                  Oh?! Did you miss the religious education class on original sin? You are damned to burn unless you are at least baptized.

                • WallofSleep

                  Clerics are greedy for money, which is why they sell fear and do everything within their power to hold back the progress of civilization and keep people enslaved to myths.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

              Emma just wait one moment and think about what you just wrote.You are telling me that I am a sinner that I will perish for a lack of knowledge but what you are missing is that you are the one who has no new knowledge. Your knowledge is old and dried out and it does not apply to the modern world.
              You are a tool. An automaton. You have to say what you are writing because you have no freewill to say something new and fresh. Your thoughts are scripted like computer programming. You cannot escape your programming. You will respond and reply to this new comment because your mind is enslaved by the indoctrination you so sheepishly have accepted. I dare you to be bold and courageous and think a new though outside of your indoctrination. I bet you cannot. Even if you try to be smart about it by placating me you are still just running the program. You must defend your position but I’ll also bet you will say something like, “Ill pray for you.” Such a lie. Think for your self Emma. You are a tool. You will always be a tool. So sad.

              • Erma

                Its not me that you reject. its the message. If u realize that God loves u and satan hates u then u will start to understand. Goodnight.. I have to go. And i hope nothingbut goodness for you..

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  My point proven. Erma there is no god. There has never been any gods. You are wasting you life believing in a mythical being. The truth is out there for you to grasp but I suspect you are too scared to face that reality. And thus the truth will be denied to those who turn their backs upon it. Please do us a favor and take your vile hateful memes someplace else.

                • Guest

                  You are apparently not a monotheist. You are a dualist duo-theist with a good god (God) and a bad god (Satan),

                • Gus Snarp

                  But God lied to Adam, told him he must not eat of the tree of knowledge or he would die that day. And the serpent said, no, you will not die, but you will have knowledge, and Adam ate the fruit and he didn’t die and he gained knowledge. God is an evil, lying, prankster. The serpent is the only one we can trust, he’s the one who’s looking out for our interests, the bringer of light and knowledge.

            • baal

              I totally need forgbeneath. That sounds both fun and kinky.

          • Erma

            We all need forgiveness. Sin destoys.. everyone falls short of the Glory of God. Jesus paid the price as a living sacrifice for the sins of humans.
            There is no condemnation for those in Christ who walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

            • WallofSleep

              Sin is a false construct designed to sell fear. Such things should be reject by grown adults as the childish folly it is.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

              The automaton speaks and wishes to be heard but yet it has nothing new to say. Repeating over and over the same dribble, the same programming, never thinking outside the box. It is so saddening to see billions of years of evolution wasted on such a wonderful mind.

        • Artor

          The dumbass above is claiming he’d like to use military authority to force underlings to pray. I could make a list of all the laws Xians have passed or tried to pass that force others to their religious edicts, but it would be far too long for this space, so take your ignorant lies and go home.
          You believe in talking snakes, worldwide floods, eating the flesh & blood of a zombie who knocked up his own mother, but you think Odin is lame? LOL!
          Btw, I don’t actually worship Odin. That was a rhetorical device. Odin is exactly as fictional as your god.

          • Erma

            So a man just appears then out of nowhere this lady just shows up and she has what it takes for the two to just procreate. Then also animalshave there perfect mate too. wow what a coincidence. With all the mess around us we can’t see the bigger picture.

            • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

              The Adam and Eve story has its roots in many cultures. Billions of micro-organisms do not mate but procreate all the time. The bigger picture is that there is no bigger picture. Life exist because billions of years of cosmic evolution favored life. The purpose is to solely distribute energy from matter. Life’s purpose is to make more life and convert matter into energy. But the complexity of this system is far more wonderful and far more beautiful than what religion has to offer.

            • DavidMHart

              Wait, do you actually think that’s what the theory of natural selection is about? No wonder you think it doesn’t make sense – you’ve been fed a charicature that is a complete misunderstanding.

              At no point did a single human appear – Ping! as if by magic. No. We start with simple self-replicating molecules, which over the course of thousands, myriads, millions and even billions of years, evolve very gradually into simple cells, complex eukaryotic cells, simple mulitcellular eukaryotes, more complicated eukaryotes such as plants, animals and fungi, and then (to follow our own path) some of those animals evolve and diversify into vertebrates, some of which diversify into lobe-finned fish, some of which diversify into land tetrapods, some of which diversify into mammals, some of which diversify into primates, some of which diversify into apes, some of which diversify into the various species of hominid, of which we are the last surviving example. Nothing happens overnight; what you have are innumerable generations over unimaginably long time-spans, with the youger generations getting progressively more fish-like, more tetrapod-like, more mammalian, more primate-like, more ape-like, more human-like until we reach the present day. You should read up on some basic evolutionary biology – it’s really quite good fun once you get into it.

            • RobMcCune

              So a man just appears then out of nowhere this lady just shows up and she has what it takes for the two to just procreate. Then also animalshave there perfect mate too. wow what a coincidence….

              Christian porn is weird.

            • onamission5

              Um, you just described the Christian creation myth perfectly. What you said is exactly what your bible says happened and has nothing to do with science or reality.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Michael-W-Busch/578120211 Michael W Busch

          You have not been read the story. One of the problems Weinstein is dealing with is Christians forcing soldiers to pray in a particular way.

    • http://www.agnostic-library.com/ma/ PsiCop

      Your religious freedom ends where others’ religious freedom begins.

    • RobMcCune

      We know that we must obey God rather than men.

      In other words the tiny fraction of chistians you represent will abuse any power and authority you’re given to try and force other’s to believe and act the way you want.

      • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

        this guy doesn’t know how much of tool he is, just another automaton repeating scripted responses with out any freewill to stop.

    • Matt D

      Nope. I know that you do not obey ALL of God’s rules, you only choose which of them to follow. So it’s pointless to tell others to obey a diety that you not only treat like a salad bar, you also deceive yourself when discussing it with strangers.

      • crane5

        Christianity is a living religion just like many other religions. What’s wrong with ‘pick and choosing’ which rules to follow?

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.angel.581525 Michael Angel

    human rights violations
    United States of America
    Obama Administration
    DOD scientists/DARPA/Illegal/nonconsenual human experimentation
    Dr Jun Chen (DOD research grant),Dr Richard Berk(Precrime),Dr Martha Farah(neurology)university of pittsburgh
    Dr. Arati Prabhakar(DARPA),Dr. Geoffrey Ling(DOD),Dr Walter J. Koroshetz(Department of Health and Human Services)
    Army Col. Charles Engel, M.P.H., M.D.,Demay psychology pentagon,USPHS Capt. Janet Hawkins, MSW, MPA, Navy
    Captain Paul S. Hammer (DCoE),
    genocide/murder and assault of adults,babies and children
    Drones/satellites/elf-vlf towers/cell towers
    equipped with MEDUSA and like technologies
    Microwave/electromagnetic radiation (neurological manipulation/torture/rape)
    voice to skull (V2K) mental torture/rape
    —they are also raping children and adults in jewish synagogues and christian sanctuaries
    THIS IS PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE AGAINST YOUR OWN PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    major general jeffrey jacobs commander army reserve psyops-
    lt gen william caldwell, major general jeffrey jacobs army reserve psychological operations
    is raping rabbis,preachers,priests,christians,jews, and their children with psychotronic warfare-
    drones/satellites and other military equipment-
    in their synagogues,cathedrals, and churches….IN THE UNITED STATES
    they use v2k(voice to skull) to be the voice of god (the Torah says no man may claim deity!)
    the obama administration condones this in the united states-
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_weapon
    wired.com/dangerroom/2007/12/the-voice-of-go/
    Please contact the aclj/aclu/the hague/the u.n./preachers/teachers/evangelists/rabbis
    or anyone who can to stop this blasphemy!!!
    Where is our constitutionally protected freedom of religion!

    • The Captain

      “voice to skull (V2K) mental torture/rape” Bwahhhhhhh! hahahaha!

      Why is this thread bringing out the pants on head bats shit insane, and flat out racist? Don’t worry Michael Angel I’m not calling you racist.

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      Maybus is that you?

  • TotalEclipse

    One thing that is always ignored about the separation of church and state is what it really means. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ….” People who try to use it to obliterate anything Christian are totally misrepresenting it. The founding fathers meant it to protect the individual from the government so they could not passing laws to say what religion a person could practice or limit their faith in any way. But people like Mikey want to use it to fuel their own personal war on Christianity. And if you don’t believe he has an Anti-Christian agenda just read his Huffington Post article.

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      I’ll take your word on that, and applaud him for it.

    • godlessveteran

      The problem is those who are trying to obliterate anything NON-Christian by forcing their subordinates to accept and practice Christianity. Weinstein would be just as vehemently opposed to a ranking individual using his position to force his subordinates to engage in Muslim, Hindu, or Psatafarian prayers. It’s just that Christians are by far the worst and most prevalent offenders.

      • http://www.facebook.com/shawn.singer.7 Shawn Singer

        Sorry I don’t believe that it is all that prevalent – officers “forcing” their subordinates to pray. Just like in the schools I can ask you to bow your head, or take a moment of silence but what you think about or do during that time is up to you. And after reading the article at http://www.salon.com, this Weinstien is one of the biggest assholes I have ever read about. It is alright for people like him to spew his bull, but heaven forbid anyone disagree with him.

        • JKPS

          You don’t believe it’s “all that prevalent”, but do you believe it’s more likely to happen than a ranking officer forcing subordinates to participate in Muslim, Hindu, Pastafarian prayers? That’s what godlessveteran said – it’s the most prevalent, as in, more prevalent than those other examples. If you’re going to disagree, I suggest you find some evidence to back up your claim, Shawn.

      • TotalEclipse

        I get what you are saying and I agree that no one likes having an opinion crammed down their throat and anyone doing that is wrong… no matter which side of this argument they are on. These offenses go both directions but people tend to only see the side that they feel is contrary to their own opinion. In the end it’s all about the people, some people respect others and some don’t. It isn’t actually about Christianity/Secularism it’s about respect for peoples belief.

        The Constitution isn’t a guarantee to not be offended. in fact it is the opposite. If there is free speech then sometimes it will offend people. So my point is that we don’t need to pass laws to obliterate anything, we need to deal with people who violate others rights on an individual basis. So I say let people practice their religion, no matter what it is, as long as they aren’t forcing it on to a captive audience. If they violate that then it would be up to their commanding officer to help them understand the reality of being in the military.

        • godlessveteran

          And what does one do when it IS the commanding officer who is violating the regulations and laws? That’s the reality of some of the recent cases.

          • TotalEclipse

            There are ways of dealing with everything and every commanding officer has someone that they answer too as well. If your commanding officer told you to violate any law your saying that you have no choice but to do as he/she says?

            • godlessveteran

              Perhaps you should look into the situation at the Air Force Academy, which Weinstein and MRFF have been dealing with for years. Comanders, high-ranking officers violating the law with abusive proselytizing, and subordinates are fucked if they object. Check it out. Then ask silly questions.

              • crane5

                Has Weinstein been able to demonstrate this in a court of law?

                • Spuddie

                  Actually, YES!

                • godlessveteran

                  DoD investigation substantiated most of MRFF’s claims. That said, DoD has yet to correct most of the abuses.

  • Catherine

    what is the big deal anyway..why is praying so offensive?? really. people share there faith all the time. i do it when i shop and online.. no one better stop me.. it is my right to do so. if you dont want to hear it, then say no thank you.. grow up people.. really.. grow up.

    • WallofSleep

      Grow up indeed. Get some reading comprehension while you’re at it.

      The point here is that commanding officers in the military have forced their subordinates, under threat of punishment, to utter prayers to a god they do not worship.

      Assuming you are a christian: Would you be so caviler about the issue if, while serving the country you loved, were forced under threat of punishment to pray to Allah, or Vishnu, or any other god which you do not worship? No, I think not. I think you’d be among the first to cry persecution.

      • Catherine

        i already stated i misunderstood.. i thought they meant if one soldier wanted to pray with another soldier they could not also do that.

        • WallofSleep

          My reply came before that. And just for the record, if they were trying to ban one soldier praying with another of their own free will, I’d stand with you in opposition to that as well. Heh, I mean, I’m not a total dick.

          Also, I apologize for coming at you harsh. I was being a bit reactionary. My bad.

          • Catherine

            its ok.. i forgive you. i have a hard time with reading. always have. not good at comprehending.

    • senshi

      The problem is preciously that people can’t just say no thank you and leave. Imagine if you are forced to pray to Allah or Buddha or the FSM when you are a Christian but your superior is forcing you to sit in on these prayers and say it with the crowd or else go do laps or confined in the barracks, now do you still think that praying is not offensive? The rules are meant to be fair for everyone not just some selected few.

      • Catherine

        i thought they were saying if another soldier wants to ask another soldier to pray that they cant.. i dont remember reading it was only for groups. sorry.

    • pete084

      The issue isn’t individual prayer, but forced prayer in groups by order, specifically where refusal leads to being ostracised. In the British military the is no stigmatisation for none adherence to religion and prayers are confined to consecrated places of worship. You would never see a commanding officer hold a prayer session.

      • Catherine

        thanks for clarifying that.

    • Catherine

      i misunderstood this.. i tried to delete this but it wont let me

  • Carpinions

    It strains the mind to think of a system of deliberate fabrication and lies that exceeds the modern conservative media machine. Only established theocracies and North Korea spring to mind…

    • http://www.facebook.com/shawn.singer.7 Shawn Singer

      Not real hard. Just think of the liberal junk most of the liberal media puts out and you have it.

      • Carpinions

        I’m rubber and you’re glue, huh?

  • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

    One of the most irritating things is having civilians with no military background involve themselves on military issues… First I serve in the military currently and I have never seen a commanding officer or NCO command a soldier to do anything religious related, so for people to say this happens continuously with reports filed makes that argument faulty… The fact is if the DOD decides to punish those who choose to share their religion violates the 1st amendment

    • WallofSleep

      “I have never seen a commanding officer or NCO command a soldier to do anything religious related…”

      I have never seen a person get bitten by a brown recluse, but that doesn’t mean that sort of thing never happens.

      • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

        There is a lot of things that happen but are we going change the foundation of this country by violating the first amendment right to practice whatever religion one chooses? I can write something insulting in a blog about anybody but does that give the government the right to say you cannot do that because it’s offensive well they just violated my freedom of speech… people who get easily offended are the closed minded individuals who then pursue to justify themselves by creating new laws that take away rights this country was founded apon… “it doesn’t mean that sort of thing never happens” well just because a situation happens a few times (if even that many) doesn’t mean we have to take drastic measures and punish the entire group for ones mistake… That is the problem with society today one wrong from one individual causes punishment on the rest of society because the people allow the government to create legislation that violates rights but “it’s for the good of the people”…

        • WallofSleep

          “people who get easily offended are the closed minded individuals who
          then pursue to justify themselves by creating new laws that take away
          rights this country was founded apon…”

          Right. Like privileged, christian supremacists who scream persecution and push legislation when they are told they are violating the constitution by using the force of gov’t to shove their myths down other peoples throats. Did you even read the OP?

          • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

            “Shove their myths down other people’s throats” wow you sound like Weinstein… I love how people say Christians shove thier beliefs down people’s throats but I don’t see Christians blowing up themselves or buildings or hurting others for the sake of their belief… But their are some other religions that do but funny they never get as much hatred as Christians… Oh well besides that the fact is if you don’t want to listen to a religious person tell you about their religion don’t listen its pretty simple… If they force you then that’s violating your rights as a person…

            • RowanVT

              So… no christian has ever killed a doctor that provides abortions, or bombed an abortion clinic? I bet that’s a surprise both to the christians that have committed those acts, and the families of the folks they’ve killed.

              • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                Hmmm curious so its okay in your mind to kill babies… Interesting

                • RowanVT

                  A fetus is not a baby.

                  You’re also avoiding the fact that I refuted you claim that christians never bomb things.

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  Question if you find a cell on another planet is that considered life?

                  And the whole bombing thing yea I’m sure their are some loose screws out their but no where near as much as Islamic groups have…

                • RowanVT

                  What does that question have to do with anything?

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  Just curious to your response… But if not willing to answer I understand

                • RowanVT

                  O_o Is this going to turn into some bizarre “gotcha” question?

                  Do I believe there is other life in the universe? Absolutely. This place is huge.

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  I don’t care if you believe if there is life or not my question was
                  If a cell was found on another planet is that considered life?

                  I asked because if you believe that is life then why isn’t a fetus considered life?

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  Or for that matter why is HIV not considered a living organism that has rights according to proclamation “thou shall not kill?”

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  HIV is a virus.. viruses cannot survive on their own, they take over cells and live inside to survive if the virus has no cells then it ceases to exist… Thus they are not considered living organisms

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  How about ants then? Or mold? Or Wasps? or Trees? Or fish? Or cattle? All these [sic]creatures are living beings yet we kill them? Do they not have the right to live too? Why have the christians, I won’t say god or jesus because ther is nothing in the bible about abortions, why have the christian deemed babies in the womb so sacred? But babies blown apart by American war bombs. not so sacred?

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  And for that matter why are American Christians not trying to stop abortions in Europe, why are American Babies more important?

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  The creatures live as they please and I’m sure you killed a few youself with a name like bubba… So your argument for them is idiotic.. now babies in a womb have the potential to become a person like you and myself so why deny the future person the right to live… And other countries have their own movements so why even bring that up…

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  Why do babies have the right to live? Babies do not have the right because there are no “rights” provided for them other than natural laws. Nature says they have the right to live or die, nothing more or less. Nature kills millions of babies all the time. Only man subscribes to the idea that human babies have some right. Because these people feel that they are special and exist outside of nature. Believe me they do not. You and I and all humanity are animals just like the ones I mentioned in my prior reply, We have no inherent rights. Rights like christianity are a myth. Abortion is not a slap in the face of some mythical god nor is bringing a child to full term a chance at resurrecting a mythical prophet. (you don’t know it but this is the reason you are aping this rhetoric) Nature kills or lets live you cannot stop nature.

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  “Nature kills millions of babies all the time” no they don’t lets be realistic… And no its a slap in the face to a God that you don’t believe in but if you were that baby you would want that chance to live… And funny those mythical rights in Christianity seem to be the bases of the laws and regulation for society around world like don’t kill don’t steal I’m pretty sure there are laws that follow those guidelines… And if you consider your self to be an animal like the ones you mentioned well why go live the animals and survive in nature lets see how long that would last but you wouldn’t why because humans are the only species that over thousands of years has learned and been able to create new things for the future… And if you feel you have no inherent rights then why do continue to exist what is the purpose of your life…

                • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

                  You really aren’t making any sense. The ocean is filled with millions of species of life that are killed at or almost right after they are born, a part of the plankton food chain. Second human babies don’t have the intellectual capacity to understand inherent rights at birth, so they would not know whether they want to live or not. This is something adults attribute to them. Third the basis of morality is not rooted in christianity or any religion for that matter, Humans have been treating each other with kindness for Tens of Thousands of years before the first religions were invented. I am surviving in nature right now. Doing a pretty good job of it due to the adaptions I inherited from a million years of natural selection. Chimpanzees, crows, dolphins and some bird species all create tools for current and future use. Tool making is not a specific human trait more like it is something we adopted from another species, since humans are really good at copying things. The sole purpose of life is to make more life. Nature does not care whether any species exists or dies off, fossil history shows us that there have been mass extinctions throughout the history of this planet and the same probably works for all the other life bearing planets in our universe. Nature doesn’t care if you or I exist because Nature has no consciousness to care. So my friend go back to you bible and try to find solace. You are an animal that is just copying other animals because you think it is socially correct to do so. Well that correctness is changing and soon replicating theistic rhetoric will be seen as harmful to the propagation of our species.

                • Spuddie

                  If its in a womb its not a baby. Any human being can keep a baby alive, only a mother keeps a fetus alive. If you don’t know the difference between the two consult a biology textbook. Equating a fetus with a baby only makes sense for a mammal if you are a platypus.

                • WallofSleep

                  “viruses cannot survive on their own, they take over cells and live inside to survive…”

                  Much like a zygote. Interesting.

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  Yes like a zygote but wait can a virus leave the body of the person and continue to live on its own and reproduce…. No

                • allein

                  neither can a zygote.

                • RowanVT

                  Define ‘cell’?

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  Laughter… A cell is the basic unit of life… There are many forms skin cells blood cells whatever floats your boat..

                • crane5

                  Cells are alive just like fetuses. It’s immoral to kill cells and fetuses just like it’s immoral to kill and eat animals and plants and people.

                • DavidMHart

                  No, but it is okay to kill foetuses. A foetus is not a baby. You are able to tell the difference between a baby and an adult, so please don’t pretend to be unable to tell the difference between a foetus and a baby.

                • Carpinions

                  Oh but see, disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF can’t see that difference. Obviously s/he thinks a zygote and a born baby are the same thing when place in contrast to each other. Place the baby and the adult in a comparison? Clearly they are the same human being full of original sin and deserving of eternal torture upon death…and especially when they have government entitlements coming to them…

                • allein

                  How do you go from “RowanVT said bombing abortion clinics/killing doctors is bad” to “RowanVT thinks it’s OK to kill babies”?

                • RobMcCune

                  Either by dodging the issue or most of his posts are knee-jerk reactions.

                • RobMcCune

                  Are you intentionally derailing the thread or are just easily distracted?

        • Mario Strada

          Here is a simple test for you to decide if something related to christianity you want to do in the military or elsewhere is going to be coercive or not.

          Change the word “Christ”, Christianity”, etc. with either a Muslim or Pagan equivalent. Often Muslim works better, but since there are quite a few Pagans around these day, should work equally well.

          If by word substitution your first reaction is one of revulsion, then odds are that it will provoke the same reaction in many non Christians and should not be acted upon.

          For instance, let’s say you want to pop on over to the mess hall and lead all the soldiers there in prayer. You think that the non-Christians there should not mind and in fact, they are pretty much the object of the exercise.

          Now imagine that you are the one eating at that mess hall and a Imam shows up and leads everyone in a Muslim prayer. Will you kneel and pray with the rest? Or will you consider that a betrayal of your Christian faith?

          Then why wouldn’t you allow non-christians the same right not to be bothered by other people’s religions?

          This is a simple example. Imagine if you had top display your Muslim or Pagan bona fides just to get promoted or attend certain important function. I’ll bet that would be quite infuriating.

          It’s no less infuriating when Christians do it.

          So engage in a bit of a mental game of substitution and see how your beliefs and actions fare.

    • RowanVT

      I’ve never actually seen Australia. I guess it doesn’t exist.

      • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

        Here is how it works. A group of people set out to see if Australia existed. They found it and reported their findings to a scientific journal, which then other people tested their theory. It was proven that yes Australia does in fact exist. Then everyone who repeated the same exact test came to the same exact conclusion.

        This is not how christianity works because despite the many valid confirmations that prove that christianity is a religion, there are an equal number of invalidations.

      • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

        Its called a map look it but I guess you can’t see that either so they probably don’t exist in your mind…

        • RowanVT

          It’s also called the many many posts that have detailed violation of the separation of church and state in the military, and officers forcing those under their command to do religious activities. You could try reading various blogs, but I guess you won’t see that either so they probably will continue to not exist in your mind.

          • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

            can you make even less sense?

            • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

              Your referring to blogs as if a person cannot easily create one and post anything they want including fictional stories.. if blogs are your souce of factual evidence I’m sure your day in court will be very brief…

              • godlessveteran

                “easily create one and post anything they want including fictional stories.. ” Like Christian blogs, and “news” sites like Christian Post?

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  Obviously you are against Christianity “godlessveteran” but the point of my comment was those blogs about situations that might have occurred will not stand in trial when dealing with this specific topic… Christian blogs post things about Christian topics which is not up for in court so your comment is useless and please if your going comment make a solid point and just a comback response

                • godlessveteran

                  I’m against all religion, troll, and if you’re going to make idiot comments about blogs making things up, then you’d better expect to take the heat. Weinstein’s blog is not the basis for any court case (you’d understand that if your head wasn’t where the sun didn’t shine); his actions are based on the very real and direct communications from those adversely affected by evangelical Christian harrassment. And those WILL stand up in court.

                • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                  Troll but yourcommenting on my original post… Weinstein’s blog is nothing more than a blog… In court you need this thing called evidence and if those individuals if they are real testify that is what will hold in court not a blog… And for the taking the heat part don’t care if you bebelieve what religous blogs post what I do is search for facts maybe you should try that instead of thinking anything religious related is fake a myth or gibberish…

                • godlessveteran

                  WTF don’t you understand? Read my last post s-l-o-w-l-y, and maybe you’ll understand better.

          • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

            Ohh yes because blogs are pure facts I’m sure all news agencies get thier facts from blogs…

            • RowanVT

              Well, Fox News certainly seems to. Mikey has posted emails received from servicemen regarding violations they’ve witness, and he has also documented the actions taken to rectify those violations. You simply want to ignore that.

              • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                Well now your on the right page Documented actions can be used but blogs will not testify in court…

                • RowanVT

                  He… blogs about those actions. Which is how you can find out about them…..

          • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

            You’re trolling us. Good job then. More practice at typing for me.

      • Spuddie

        You are a Creationist scholar! =)

    • 3lemenope

      So, so much for that whole civilian control of the military thing, right? The military will handle its own shit, and the people on behalf of which it does everything and whose existence justifies their existence can just butt out?

      • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

        Why is a man with no military experience incharge of the military? I.E. the president… The reason the president was givin the power of commander and chief was because George Washington was infact a General of the the army… So to have an individual leading the military with no such background does not follow what the framers and founders did… And yes military can “handle its own shit” the job of the military is too protect the people and their rights so unless you are doing that well then just sit back and be thankful you have someone fighting for you because your too afraid to protect yourself..

        • 3lemenope

          What utter nonsense.

        • RobMcCune

          You’re saying the founders intended Washington to be the only president ever? Most of the early presidents weren’t generals and had little to no military experience. The idea was that the military would be accountable to civilians in order to prevent people like Julius Caesar from coming to power. Of course I’m sure you’d have the military make your version of history the “true” one, for freedom.

    • Mario Strada

      When you join the military you renounce quite a few rights that civilians have.
      But the fact that you have not seen this behavior, does not mean it doesn’t exist. My understanding is that there are pockets of fundamentalism that are worse than other place.

      When I was in officer school there was a rumor that cadets in another branch were forced by their seniors to do push ups over open latrines. I have never seen this done and if I did I would have done my best to stop it, but just because I did not witness it myself I wouldn’t dream of denying it based solely on my experience.

  • Catherine

    peace and love peace and love peace and love .. God bless our troops!!

  • John D. Fiat

    Do any of you realize that the military allows its service members to practice Satanism? (No, I’m not kidding. They even provide them with facilities). And I bet that little Mikey doesn’t have a problem with that (nor would he if Judaism replaced Christianity as the most popular religion in the military). You see, Jewish atheists are a myth. They have successfully conflated their religion, race, and political beliefs. Just look at Bill Maher! He’s a liberal idiot who has actually convinced people that he’s a libertarian and an atheist. But when a former CIA director told him that Israel should fend for itself, he went ballistic. Weinstein apparently agrees with some Major General who thinks that the Army should kick out Christians who’s beliefs oppose gay marriage (just because the Jewish-owned SPLC labels them a hateful religion). And Mikey also thinks that we should do whatever the SPLC recommends. Well, let me ask you something! What is worse, not endorsing gay marriage or sucking baby penises? You see, Rabbi’s suck the blood of freshly circumcised baby penises right off the head (pun intended). Shouldn’t we arrest them for pedophilia before we think about banning Christians from the military for believing in traditional marriage?

    • allein

      Individual soldiers are allowed to practice whatever religion they want. Why do you have a problem with that?

      (Perhaps those rabbis should be arrested for practicing medicine without a licence?)

  • SmithSmash

    Sorry but a SFC in the Army is NOT a Commanding Officer. Try again.

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      Certainly true, but a Sergeant First Class has a hierarchy that he follows and often that hierarchy defines certain expectations of the solders under the direct command (or supervision) of the SFC. If Command (captains lieutenants, generals) decree that all solders must attend church services then it is the job of all (in the command structure) to enforce what Command says. In other words an SFC is essentially equal in command, as his commissioned officers are, of the troops beneath him.

  • AL

    My Muslim colleagues respect my faith in God and Jesus Christ whom the Koran recognizes as a prophet.

    it’s you Godless atheists that the Muslims don’t respect or understand.

    Don’t worry, I have a simple enough answer: Christians just don’t need to join the US Military or re up.

    • 3lemenope

      Result: Christians who are patriotic and care about the duty they’ve chosen with the military will sign right up again. Christians who are more interested in a public display of self-righteous piety will leave, and will not be missed.

      The problem works itself out. I like it. Let’s try your solution!

    • Mario Strada

      Excellent idea. Those Christians that don’t feel like it’s an encroachment of their “religious Freedom” to be told they cannot proselytize in the workplace or force others to obey their rituals, will certainly sign up as they have always done.
      The bible thumpers, those that believe is their right to help institute a theocracy, starting with the military, can stay home and help their local chiurch instead.

      I think that would work quite well. Who said fundies can’t come up with good ideas.

  • Myrmidon

    I am an active duty US Marine. I am also an atheist, and it’s no secret in my shop.

    I serve with other non-religious folks, and with various types of Christians (Catholic, Protestant, ‘non-denominational’) — and, i’m sure, with people of other faiths, though i haven’t heard of any.

    On a day to day basis, there aren’t any issues. There have been occasions, however, of officers abusing their commissions to proselytize. They are rare, but they happen.

    Even in cases where a civilian might think there is some kind of religious coercion, there’s often a sort of nudge-nudge-wink-wink thing going on. For example, at a rehearsal for a retirement ceremony we were told that a chaplain would be ‘speaking an invocation’ (i.e. praying). He would say, “Let us pray”, and then everyone in the formation was told to bow their heads. Our 1stSgt told us, “I don’t care if you’re not religious. I’m not religious either, i don’t go to fucking church or pray or anything. If you’re not religious just bow your fucking head and think about fucking bull shit for a few minutes. If you are religious, go ahead and listen, whatever. But this isn’t about prayer, it’s about MSgt ____ [the Marine who is retiring] and his 20 years of fucking service.”

    I don’t mind playing along for someone else’s sake, but i have a feeling this isn’t the kind of behavior that Mikey Weinstein is protesting.

    Anyway, that’s how it is at my shop, at my unit, in my branch of service. Might be different elsewhere.

    • http://criticallyskeptic-dckitty.blogspot.com Katherine Lorraine

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that religious coercion? Being told, as an atheist to bow your head and pretend to pray because it makes Master Sergeant Whomever feel good? That’s coercion. An atheist shouldn’t have to pray or pretend to pray.

      • http://www.facebook.com/shawn.singer.7 Shawn Singer

        He wasn’t told to pray he was told to “bow your fucking head and think about fucking bull shit for a few minutes.” by another atheist. One of the problems of most atheists, more intolerant and ready to twist comments than any Christian ever was.

        • http://criticallyskeptic-dckitty.blogspot.com Katherine Lorraine

          Twisting comments, eh?
          Do you see those two words before the word “pray” in my comment above?
          Yea, that’s what I thought. Hello Mr. Pot.

          • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

            In a ceremonial event its a ritual something that is done continuously like a tradition but if a soldier is told by his commanding officer to kneel and pray outside of ceremony that is religious coercion

            • godlessveteran

              News flash: if a soldier is told by his commanding officer to kneel and pray IN A ceremony that is ALSO religious coercion. What don’t you fucking understand about that?

              • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

                Lol relax tool… If you feel you cant bow your head out of respect for a retiring soldier than you shouldn’t be serving because the military is like a family and if you cant deal with it get out…

                • godlessveteran

                  Screw you. So you’re saying that it’s just a coincidence that when everyone is ordered to bow their heads, prayer just breaks out for no reason? Baloney. Bowing one’s head has nothing to do with respecting someone else, it’s about forced observance of prayer. I can show respect for someone quite well without being forced into group prayer, and if YOU can’t deal with it, you need to revisit the oath you took to uphold the Constitution instead of violating it.

              • MarineSgt

                Yet that has never happened in my 6 years in the service, so what’s your point? I am not a christian, I am not an atheist. They asked for the marines to bow their heads in respect toward the man talking. They never said you have to pray, I have never been told I have to pretend to pray. I was told to bow my head, which is not religious coercion, it’s the same as a soldier, or marine being told to “get in formation”, getting in formation isn’t religious coercion, why is bowing my head. This is all as ridiculous as the Christian Post’s article. You are just as petty as they are and just as intent on forcing your belief in nothing on everyone, as the Christians are in forcing their beliefs in Jesus

                • http://www.facebook.com/john.doeyoe John Doeyoe

                  These atheists think they are doing a service to all non-believers but in reality they are forcing their beliefs unto other just as they claimed the religious people are doing.
                  If you don’t believe in a God… Don’t f*cken care what religious people are saying cause it shouldn’t bother you. And if it should bother you then you do believe in it.

        • JKPS

          I’m sorry, but I don’t think bringing up a legitimate concern means that Katherine is being intolerant. I certainly don’t think one comment means that “most atheists” are “more intolerant and ready to twist comments than any Christian ever was.”

          Seriously, you’re taking one comment, deciding you don’t like it, and deciding that means most atheists are intolerant and twist words – do you not see the irony there?

          Look, I would probably bow my head and “think about fucking bullshit” if it was to honor someone and that’s what they really wanted, but that doesn’t mean I would want to feel coerced into it, and that’s all Katherine was pointing out – that to her, that feels like a legitimate method of coercion. And it certainly doesn’t mean I think everyone else should feel like it’s an okay thing for them to do personally.

          You’re the one being intolerant here; you basically just told someone who was trying to have a conversation, an exchange of thoughts and opinions, that atheists look bad when they do that.

          • Pathetic

            For people who don’t believe in anything you guys sure have a lot to say on matters of belief, I also was in the Marine Corp. and I also was asked to bow my head for religious occasions like the one mentioned above. I in no way every felt coerced into it and if I didn’t feel like it I didn’t do it. Katherine’s “concern” is only legitimate IF, she spent time in the service and understand what she is having a “conversation” about. If she didn’t and she doesn’t then it is more of the same uneducated nonsense I’ve seen above in this post. No one when I was in the Corp. was ever told that they had to pray, or to pretend to pray. They were told to bow their heads, no one gives a fuck what your doing when your head is bowed. I am not a christian I think institutionalized religion is just another way to get through life, which some people need and that’s fine. I feel like, just like the Christians, you Atheists are drumming up monsters in your heads and even going as far as to fight with one another on how much you’ve been oppressed lately. It’s remarkably pathetic. I’m being more and more convinced as I read through these comments of the sheep like nature of Americans. We get it, the whole of you are just a horribly oppressed people, who have been coerced and put down your whole lives, we all feel very sorry for you.

            • JKPS

              There are an awful lot of logical fallacies here – saying that atheists don’t believe in anything, saying that you can only have a say in something if you’ve experienced it, and your ridiculously over-the-top final statement, but I’m just going to focus on the anecdotal fallacy.

              Because we all have our own experiences and biases, it’s illogical of you to state that just because you weren’t forced to pray, nobody else has ever been forced to pray and there’s no religious coercion happening. You are one person; you can’t know how everyone else feels or what everyone else has experienced. It would have taken you five seconds to Google “examples of religious coercion in the united states military” to search outside of your own bubble.

        • Myrmidon

          To be honest, the first thing that came to mind after he said that sentence was: “And if you are religious, you can pretty much do the same thing.”

      • Myrmidon

        I understand your concern. I failed to mention that earlier in the week, a SSgt (two pay grades below 1stSgt) also told us that no one would be forced to bow their heads but that he personally was going to do it despite his lack of religiosity. It’s very possible that some people felt that they HAD to bow their heads or they would somehow stand out… and as you correctly point out below, a lot of that feeling is probably based on one’s personality. However, i myself have refrained from bowing my head during other events and there were no negative repercussions. (Really, it’s like anywhere else: the only people who are going to see that someone does not have their head bowed are -other people who don’t have their heads bowed-.)

        (As an aside: I’d like to say that the MSgt never said anything about this to us, and he personally walked through the ranks before the ceremony to shake the hands of every single one of us and thank us. I doubt he would’ve been even a bit miffed if not a single Marine had bowed her or his head.)

        I think it’s a complex situation because a lot of military custom and tradition are “just so”. Why can’t you move from first rank to third rank without leaving the formation? Why can’t you walk between the platoon and the platoon commander, even if you only have to scoot down two feet? Who knows. I recognize that this is argumentum ad antiquitatem, which i do not respect in other areas (e.g. “In God we trust” and “One nation under God”). I am of two minds about it; there’s the part that swore to uphold and defend the Constitution (including the Establishment Clause), and there’s the part that doesn’t really see this as a big deal. I understand that some people don’t consider this a violation of the Constitution, and that some people consider this a very big deal. It’s a complex situation that i am slowly working my way through.

        • Myrmidon

          “… and as you correctly point out below” should read “… and as was correctly pointed out below”. Pardon my failure to pay attention to the comment nesting!

    • godlessveteran

      But the thing is, it IS about prayer, not about the military member, if EVERYONE is ordered to bow their heads.

      • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

        But why is that offensive if an atheist himself told he does it out of repect for the retirement of a fellow soldier… This atheist is humble and doesn’t take offense to what some individual would because that individual is so prideful they have to make everything about themself

        • Amanda

          And? Some are okay with playing along, and some aren’t. It’s a personality difference. All people of a certain religion or lack thereof aren’t living in the same box. They don’t have to be exactly the same. Some Christians pray with their hands in the hand, and some bend knee to the floor.

          Is it okay for a Muslim officer to ask Christians to participate in their rituals out of respect for the Muslim? The whole battalion should ignore their faiths for a few moments to make someone else feel better. What if the Officer thinks everyone should “Hail Hitler” at the end of the ceremony? Should they all obey out of respect for his belief system because he’s been in for twenty years? You can respect someone else’s *choice* to do as they please, but respect doesn’t mean being forced to participate.

          • amanda

            hands in the air*

            • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

              And wave them like you just don’t care

          • Myrmidon

            I’m sure your right about this being strongly driven by personality, and i agree that faith should be set aside for ceremonies like this. I’d rather focus on what was accomplished during that 20-year enlistment, and the possibilities the future may hold. And to his credit, when our MSgt had the chance to speak he did just that. He thanked some individuals directly, thanked all of us as a whole and then besought all of us to continue working and training hard to be prepared for the next conflict. I feel that the only potentially inappropriate part of the entire ceremony was the invocation, and it was (in my opinion) a minor issue. I understand that it is not a minor issue to some, and i can respect that perspective even if i don’t personally work on its behalf.

            • Spuddie

              I think you had this right when you said, “this isn’t the kind of behavior that Mikey Weinstein is protesting.”

              Its not really an example of what Mikey has been talking about. He is more about superior officers proselytizing the ranks (a big thing at the Air Force Academy), favoritism of cliques within units based on religion, promoting disrespect of other faiths, bullying based on religion.

              Stuff which goes far beyond what can be described as a sign of personal respect which you described in such great detail.

              • Myrmidon

                You’re probably right.

                At any rate, i mentioned this thread (and the situation i have described) to a coworker today. He was also involved in the ceremony, but was not present when the SSgt informed us that we were not, in fact, absolutely compelled to bow our heads. My coworker said that if he had known about that, he would have refrained from bowing his head. I told him that i wasn’t sure it was a very big deal, and he had this to say: “I think it is a big deal, actually.” (Me: Why’s that?) “Because in the 21st century, and especially in the ‘War on Terror’, involving religion in our politics is not helping — is in fact exactly opposing what we are trying to accomplish.”

                We talked about it a bit more and i’ll admit, he’s quite convincing. I may not be so silent the next time. We’ll see.

              • crane5

                I don’t want to seem lazy, but can you post some evidence for the Air Force Academy stuff? I haven’t seen much supporting evidence and I know Weinstein didn’t win his case against the Air Force Academy.

        • El Bastardo

          Why is it offensive? Really?

          Ok, try this. Imagine the sergeant screamed “I don’t care if you’re not fucking muslim, neither am I, this is about respecting Lt. Hussein who is retiring so get on your knees, face mecca and pretend to pray to Allah.”

          That would have gone down well wouldn’t it?

          • disqus_Gz1uzmMgqF

            The difference between what you said and what really happens out of respect for others a chaplain says what ever your religion please bow you head for a moment… Not yelling or screaming saying Jesus Christ in your face non of that.. so you over exaggerating example would not happen in the U.S. military

          • crane5

            What is your opinion on is the sergeant screamed “I don’t care if you’re not
            fucking atheist, neither am I, this is about respecting Lt. Hussein who
            is retiring so don’t pray or make any reference to the supernatural while we honor this person”?

          • Shit is weak

            Yet he didn’t so what’s your point? I’m frankly more tired of hearing Atheists try to shove their non belief down my throat than any Christian I’ve ever heard. I’m not a Christian, but this post can confirm one thing for me, I sure as shit won’t ever be an Atheist. You guys cry more than any group of people I’ve seen. I was in the Marine Corp. and what was always asked was that you bow your head, same as you were told to run, to get in formation, to clean your room. It was never asked of me to pray, to pretend to pray, or anything else remotely religious. There were a lot of officers a lot of times out in front of me spouting nonsense as equally ridiculous, or more as the things coming out of chaplains mouth’s. You can quit your crying now and move on with your life. Your not oppressed get over it.

            • allein

              In what context were you asked to bow your head? That’s generally seen as a posture of prayer. If you were asked to bow your head while someone else was praying, you were essentially being asked to at least appear to be praying as well.

              • http://www.facebook.com/john.doeyoe John Doeyoe

                You bow your head for respect… not to pray. Whoever said you have to bow your head to pray?

                • allein

                  I didn’t say you have to bow your head to pray, just that it’s common to do so.

            • http://www.facebook.com/john.doeyoe John Doeyoe

              It’s about time someone has some common sense.

      • Myrmidon

        To be fair, no one was truly ordered to do anything — i don’t think that would be a lawful or appropriate order.

        For what it’s worth, the ‘invocation’ used distinctly Christian language, e.g. Our Heavenly Father; We come into Your Presence today to…; in Your Name we pray, amen; etc. It’s possible that this was done to reflect 1stSgt’s personal beliefs, but i doubt it; in my experience it’s pretty standard for the chaplains to use Christianity by default.

    • Doug Evans

      No, your shop is the same in every branch of the service, men and women in uniform respect each other’s personal beliefs. It’s these scumsucking bottom feeding lawyers that cling to the Obama administration like dingleberrys on the butt of a furry dog that are the true hate mongers. And they even lie about their mission – they’re not there to “Free the military” from their imaginary oppression, their main job is to destroy morale, break down unit cohesion, and turn the troops against each other thereby destroying the warfighting capability of the US Military. Once they did away with the Strategic Air Command it was clear sailing for these communist bastards.

  • Rwlawoffice

    Here is what this beacon of reason said:

    “If these fundamentalist Christian monsters of human degradation, marginalization, humiliation and tyranny cannot broker or barter your acceptance of their putrid theology, then they crave for your universal silence in the face of their rapacious reign of theocratic terror. Indeed, they ceaselessly lust, ache, and pine for you to do absolutely nothing to thwart their oppression. Comply, my friends, and you, too, become as monstrously savage as are they. I beg you, do not feed these hideous monsters with your stoic lethargy, callousness and neutrality. Do not lubricate the path of their racism, bigotry, and prejudice. Doing so directly threatens the national security of our beautiful nation.”

    But let’s. to worry, he is not going after Christians.

    • godlessveteran

      He’s just recognizing vermin for what they are.

      • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

        Consider yourself recognized

        • godlessveteran

          That’s the mirror you’re looking at, verm.

        • godlessveteran

          Thanks for announcing your presence, vermin. Now go troll elsewhere.

    • http://twitter.com/JasonOfTerra PhiloKGB

      You know he wasn’t referring to all Christians, and you know we’d find that out. So why even bother lying about it?

      • Rwlawoffice

        I really don’t think there is much difference in how a rabid anti Christian tries to parse words between Christians.

        • http://twitter.com/JasonOfTerra PhiloKGB

          Sorry. The correct answer is, “You’re right. I attributed to Weinstein something he did not actually say. I’ll not bother with insulting justifications and promise to be more careful in the future.”

      • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

        Of course he wasn’t. Only the ones who actually talk about their faith. So why even bother trying to Spin it?

    • Mario Strada

      In fact, he is not. He is referring to right wing christian extremists specifically. That is quite clear if you read the entire editorial instead of the excerpt breitbart republished.

      In fact, in reading the full article one gets the impression he is appealing to your average christian not to support these group by being indifferent to them. I don’t get the feeling I am his target audience when I read the article at all.

    • crane5

      Apparently, people are trying to put more and more things under ‘national security’ concerns and the lack of ordinary legal procedure that comes with it.

  • AugustineThomas

    There’s no such thing as a friendly atheist.

    Mikey Weinstein is an anti-Christian bigot–he’s notable for no other reason. If Christians were wise and not as foolishly nice as they are, ingrates like all the atheists who constantly lie about this not having been founded as a Christian country would be ignored and marginalized.

    • http://www.facebook.com/brian.westley Brian Westley

      The 16th century is calling, they want their theocracy back.

    • JA

      Fundie blogs must have boring topics today for you to go and troll atheists.

      And sorry, sweetheart, but if you’ve read the Constitution, you’d see that the U.S. was not founded as a Christian nation.

      I’d also like to point out the 1793 Treaty of Tripoli that clearly states in its opening line that the U.S. is not founded on the Christian religion, and it was unanimously approved.

    • Mario Strada

      How is the weather in Bizarro planet? I hope warm enough so you Christian Bigots remain there. We need you to continue to show your detachment from reality so that one day, you and your cancerous, false religion will be a thing of the past.

      It’s so nice to deal with people like you, where I don’t have to worry about hurting your feelings.

    • DavidMHart

      Some of the original European colonies that later ganged together to break away from the UK and become the USA were founded as Christian colonies – that is, colonies with an official Christian church that there were penalties for not attending. However, the USA was founded as a secular nation that happened to have a majority Christian population. That is a very important distinction. It means that, no matter how many or how few of its citizens are religious, the Government may not take sides in religious matters, may not favour one religion (or denomination) over another, may not favour any religion over non-religion, and also may not favour non-religion over religion.

      The way the demographic trends are going, Christians may one day find themselves in the minority in the USA, and if that day arrives, the fact that the USA was founded as a secular nation will serve to protect them, because the 1st amendment is for the protection of everyone’s religious beliefs or lack thereof.

      • AugustineThomas

        You’re being dubious. “Separation of church and state” was obviously meant for CHURCH and state.

        Why wasn’t it separation of church, mosque, and temple and state???
        Jews were grandfathered in, but that was saying thanks for the cultural inheritance.

        I’m not saying we should stay with their view, but even Jefferson hated Muslims so it’s dubious to suggest they were these “multicultural” proto-modern-leftists.

        I’ll warn you about trusting derivatives/extrapolations, but it’s clear you leftists will never learn.
        Militant secularism is at its high water mark. Secularists abort all their children and their numbers are constantly inflated by the media and militant godless folks in the university welfare system.
        They rely on poaching from Christians but that’s getting harder because most Christians now know their tricks.

        The percentage of Christians in the world is higher than at any point in history and even in the dying secular West, a huge majority still know nothing but Judeo-Christian morals, whether or not they’ve been brainwashed by their bitter professors to say “religion is evil, spirituality is good”.

        • allein

          “secularists use cheap pleasure like pop music ”
          Christian rock, anyone?

          • RobMcCune

            Yeah but no one describes the experience of listening to it pleasurable.

            • allein

              Haha..good point.

            • godlessveteran

              It replaced waterboarding.

        • onamission5

          “Secularists abort all their children…”

          Shhh, don’t tell my kids they’ve been aborted. Their dad and I are keeping it a secret. If you tell them, they might think that means they don’t have to go to school or do chores any more. Let them find out they were never really born when they are older. Preferably after they’ve all graduated college.

          (ow, my eyes rolled so hard they got stuck in the back of my head)

        • RobMcCune

          That was hilarious, more random tangent rage dumps about the inevitable triumph of the christian please.

        • DavidMHart

          I don’t understand how any of that addresses my original response – which was simply pointing out that while some of the original colonies were founded as Christian colonies, the USA was not founded as a Christian country, but rather, it was founded as a secular country which happened to have at the the time, and still does, a majority Christian population, and that this is a very different thing from being founded as a Christian country.

          And obviously the phrase ‘separation of church and state’ originates in a culture where the most prominent types of religious institution were churches – and is clearly intended as a stand-in for ‘separation of Church or Mosque or Gurdwara or Synagogue or [etc] and State’. The point of the 1st amendment is that the government cannot get involved in either the suppression or the promotion of any religion. You don’t have to be a multicultural proto-modern leftist to be able to understand why having an established religion is a threat to the rights of those who don’t belong to that religion – you just need to be able to look at the centuries of bloodshed in Europe over which was to be the victorious flavour of Christianity.

          And as regards high water marks? I’m not convinced. What statistics are you relying on here? As far as I was aware, the number of people not identifying as religious was increasing healthily in the West. And if Christianity is spreading in the rest of the world, this is largely because it is either a) eating up local minority religions, or b) re-emerging in places like Russia and the rest of the former Eastern Bloc where it hadn’t every really gone away, it had just been driven underground by a rival ideology that almost no well-meaning secularists today even support anyway. Please cite your sources.

  • j

    Just for the record SFC or Sergeant First Class is NOT a commanding officer…he’s not even an officer, he is an NCO whose actions are dictated by his commanding officer (i. e captain, major, colonol, etc.) …not saying the email he sent was appropriate, just saying a Sergeant First Class does not have as much authority as one might think..

  • indorri

    Holy shit, where did all the anti-semitism for those opposing Weinstein come from?

    • Spuddie

      My guess would be that Stormfront’s servers are down.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005159192369 Facebook User

    So then if he has them pray, do they have to? Ill pray for you sir.

    • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

      Of course not, but admitting that wouldn’t serve the moonbat agenda.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sherry.baker.731 Sherry Baker

    I am Christian and I called this man myself to ask him if this was true and speak with him, I told him that no Christian would be threatening him or his wife for as Christians we do not do that we bring the message in love an truth not departing from the doctrine but in forgiveness of sin. He talked to me and listened and took the time to explain to me his view. Being Jewish we of course disagree on doctrine but as Christians we stand with Jews and Israel. Those who bless Israel will be blessed and God will show them the truth of Christ when it is time as the scripture says. I sent him this letter.
    I checked my email and looks like me message wont go through to that man so I resent one to him this.
    Tried to send this but keeps coming back. As I said I want to thank you for speaking with me to explain things that have been said, I have to say I was concerned by what I have read about you for as a Christian I was very offended by the words. My husband was upset as many other Christians are too…. I thought this cant be right for first off that would be against the constitution and our religious rights. As Christians we are under the great commission to spread the gospel and to stand firm on the truth of it for it is the final authority we bring that message in love and gentelness but we never conform to the world. As you told me you were receiving threats and I will say this no Christian would be threatening you harm or your wife ill will. That is not a Christian stance at all.WE are to bring the word in love and correct with scripture not threats. For choosing Christ is all about free will not force. I hope you understand that if someone is doing that they are not Christian. I will stand firm on the gospel always and the truth of Christ but as Christians we never turn to threats of violence. I want to thank you for talking to me and listening to my questions. I pray you correct anything that makes you appear to be persecuting Christians. for Paul saw the light and turned from it and was saved. the message of Christ is peace and forgiveness of sin not violence.

    • godlessveteran

      “I pray you correct anything that makes you appear to be persecuting Christians. ” It’s the Christians who are persecuting, dearie.

      • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

        Hardly, but keep telling yourself that. It’ll soothe your conscience…assuming you have one.

        • godlessveteran

          Wonder why a DoD investigation into MRFF’s claims substantiated the fact of the abuses enumerated by MRFF? So deluded nitwits could deny them, apparently.

    • http://www.facebook.com/iceskatingfan Stephanie Austin

      Ahh, the no true Christian reply.

    • Mario Strada

      They are Christians. They call themselves Christians so they are Christians. I’ll bet if I ask them, they’ll claim you are not Christian enough for not threatening them with bodily arms.

    • http://absurdlypointless.blogspot.com/ Bubba Tarandfeathered

      Making threats is not a christian virtue? So I guess the guy who blew up the abortion clinic some time ago was not a “true christian?” Your straw-man argument holds no basis in reality. Lest you forget the crusades, Bloody Mary’s campaign against protestants and that nobody expected the Holy Roman Inquisition. All good christians threatening others with violence. Christian myopia always astounds me.

    • DavidMHart

      And if your type of Christian were the only type of Christian available, then we would be living in a somewhat saner world. But you do not get to unilaterally declare who is a real Christian and who isn’t. If I asked Fred Phelps or someone of a comparatively vituperative theology if you were a real Christian, they’d probably say you weren’t. And in the absence of any objective way to decide, all we can do is take an inclusive approach and say that anyone who
      a) calls themself a Christian,
      b) believes in a god, and

      c) believes that Jesus was some sort of earthly manifestation of that god
      will count as a Christian for our purposes, regardless of how ecumenical or intolerant they are.

    • http://www.thechristiansolution.com/ The Christian Solution

      Sherry, you are sharing your great Christian beliefs with vipers on this web site. If I may point out one mistake you make, you have an unbelieving Jewish worship you need to overcome. The God will bless those who bless the Jews part is one verse in the first book of the Old Testament. All the Old Testament is the root forming which would support the Vine of Christ, from which we all obtain our religious nourishment now as branches. Unbelieving Jews who obtain no nourishment from Christ had died and withered..

      But make no mistake Sherrie, every verse, of every chapter, of every book of the New Testament says that “God will Bless those who Bless His Son, and God will Curse those who Curse His Son”. I’m afraid Sherrie, that with IsraHell, you are blessing those who curse Christ.

  • Raising_Rlyeh

    So anyone else surprised that gay muslims also have gay goats?

  • Michael

    “Mikey Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation…”

    Military? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

    • Gus Snarp

      Adjective
      Of, relating to, or characteristic of soldiers or armed forces: “both leaders condemned the buildup of military activity”.

      Noun
      The armed forces of a country.

      No, I’m pretty sure it does. What on earth are you talking about?

      • Michael

        Ha. I misread it. I thought it said militant. Oops

        • Gus Snarp

          Ah, that explains it.

  • Gus Snarp

    This kind of lying is so weird. It reads like satire, yet there is a right wing conspirasphere of the Internet where these things actually sound plausible and people believe them and send hate mail based on them. It’s just bizarre. And I’m always surprised at the number of people who believe it. A significant portion of my friends from high school, my in-laws. I want to believe this is an extremist fringe, and the people sending the death threats probably are, but the number of people who believe this stuff is much, much higher than can be safely ignored.

    But it does mean we get to read hilarious commentary like:
    “YOUR HUSBAND HAS UNPROTECTED SEX WITH THE QUEER GOATS OF GAY MUSLIM MEN.”

    From people who probably argue that humans are the only animals that are gay and who apparently bump the caps lock key while typing and are so computer illiterate that they don’t know where it is and think there’s nothing they can do about everything suddenly being capitalized.

    • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

      And yt it’s the lefty who wrote this screed who’s actually the one lying. Imagine that. Oh, wait, no need. it’s right there in front of you and all you need is the guts to admit it. Nobody will hold their breath waiting for that to happen.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jason.wade.35325074 Jason Wade

      I think that’s sheep, not goats

  • JA

    Hemant, you forgot to black out the name of the last email.

  • SettingAside

    Mikey wasn’t hired BUT he was appointed by Obama to be a “Religious Tolerance Consult.” So, he has the ear of the military where he can spew his lies and hate speech against Christians. It’s ridiculous to appoint an intolerant atheist to be a “Religious Tolerance Consult.” The intolerant continue to expect everyone but themselves to be tolerant.

    • LL

      So you define “intolerant of Christianity” as “Not allowing Christians to bully, force or require subordinates to practice Christianity?” Oh my! Poor U.S. Christians!!

      Atheists are not intolerant of Christians. They are intolerant of Christians believing they have the right to shove their own beliefs and practices down the throats of others.

      • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

        Let’s quote Mikey again for those of you who can’t deal with reality…

        “Today, we face incredibly well-funded gangs of fundamentalist Christian monsters who terrorize their fellow Americans by forcing their weaponized and twisted version of Christianity upon their helpless subordinates in our nation’s armed forces.”

        And let’s also be honest about what you people call “shoving beliefs down people’s throats” : Ever openly discussing Faith with anyone. Period. Truly vile hypocrites is all you are…and perhaps cowards.

        • Spuddie

          Try again, liar. How about coercing people, attacking the religions of others and creating privileged cliques within ranks based on religion.

          If that is openly discussing faith, then your faith needs work. That is what thugs do.

    • godlessveteran

      Yet another liar for jeebus.

  • amandra

    Any argument you thought you were making was immediately destroyed by your grade school inclusion of email insults…

    • Mario Strada

      Why would that be? I find the emails quite revealing. Christians will certainly claim that those letter writers are not True Christians® but they certainly show how hypocritical some Christians are.
      I honestly don’t see a reason not to publish them, except to spare your very delicate sensitivities.
      Screw that.

  • peopleschoice1

    Praying for you all daily. Mikey being hired doesn’t surprise me at all. Look at Obama’s record – Coordinator event planner. Who else would they hire a real Pentagon consultant? Why no. May God have mercy on your soul.

  • http://twitter.com/beltfed762 jeff saunier

    “You can’t tell your troops to pray when you’re a commanding officer.
    It’s an abuse of position that has no place in our military.”?

    Sorry, SFC is not a Commanding Officer. He is a member of the Enlisted ranks, just like a Private. He is also most likely a Leader and someone the lower Ranks look up to. Sharing your Faith is not using your position to demand someone believe. Mr Mehta & Mr Weinstein, in my opinion, are mistaken.

    • godlessveteran

      No, NOT just like a private. An E-7 is a senior non-commissioned officer and has far more authority than a private.

  • Pepe

    Too many trolls here today.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001951614348 Rogue Rose

    Except that Breitbart never said he was hired. They said the Pentagon consulted with him. Something that was also reported by the Washington Post. And all Breitbart did was accurately quote him and his anti-Christian rhetoric.. like this one ”

    “Today, we face incredibly well-funded gangs of fundamentalist Christian monsters who terrorize their fellow Americans by forcing their weaponized and twisted version of Christianity upon their helpless subordinates in our nation’s armed forces.” Yep, sounds like “tolerance” to me…

    Other than the misinformation about Breitbart and mischaracterization of Weinstein’s positions.. good reporting.

    here’s the link to the Breitbart story.. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2013/04/28/Pentagon-Consults-Extremist-Who-Calls-Christians-Monsters-and-Enemies-of-the-Constitution-to-Develop-Religious-Tolerance-Policy

    • http://twitter.com/libertydwells LibertyDwells

      Now doggone it, there you go replying with facts and truth when a lefty is off on a self-satisfying tangent of BS. Actually quoting Breitbart or Weinstein accurately is simply not going to be tolerated by the tolerant left.

    • Gus Snarp

      Except nowhere above does it claim that Breitbart said he was hired. It directly quotes the Christian Post saying he was hired, then directly quotes Breitbart saying he’s the new religious tolerance consultant to the Pentagon (language that is still misleading, as it clearly gives the impression that Weinstein will be in an ongoing position as a consultant, which is pretty damn close to being hired). So there’s no misinformation here at all. You’ve invented claims not made in order to refute them. That’s pure straw man.

  • Ryn_droma

    Ok, I just want to correct one little thing at the end there. A SFC is NOT a commissioned officer and therefore can NOT be a Commanding Officer or an officer in charge. He is an E-7 and anyone who has been in the navy knows that while an E-7 has influence, they don’t really have much power at all. I recently left the military as an E-6 and if an E-7 told me to do something I thought was stupid, IE praying for so and so, I would simply ignore it just like every other person in the armed forces would.

    Additionally, you are inferring from this guy’s email that he would ORDER his troops to pray for someone, vice ASKING them to.

    Asking anyone to pray for someone should not be offensive to you. Take a breath and read on for why I say that before you get defensive.

    You ought to be able to say to yourself “hey, he just wants me to exercise whatever part of my religion or beliefs would apply here”. Maybe you pray to Allah, God, god, Yahweh, Ahura Mazda, send positive thoughts, ask the Virgin Mary, draw something on the floor or gaze at a star for 5 minutes. Whatever suits you. We shouldn’t get hung up on that. Part of being tolerant is understand the meaning in what is said and not reacting solely to the words used.

    now I’ll get off my soap box

    • godlessveteran

      Anyone who has been in the Navy (or worked alongside Navy) knows that the top 3 enlisted are treated like gods, and their authority is not to be questioned by lower enlisted.

  • PTLinORL

    I will pray for you. You need it.

    • godlessveteran

      The Christian equivalent of “f*ck you”.

  • jtdmac

    So he wasn’t hired, but according to news he did consult the pentagon, didn’t he.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/ Hemant Mehta

      He did consult with them. That was it. No hiring.

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.doeyoe John Doeyoe

    Yeah… like this atheist will write only the truth. Take this writing with a grain of salt… All you religious haters claiming Hitler and Stalin was christian are full of it. I guess I’m a hamburger since I eat at McD.

    • Spuddie

      Nobody has every heard of Lying for no God. But Lying for Christ is a well know phenomena.

  • http://fb.me/MrMikeDavis Mike Davis

    Google is your friend, Hemant.

    U.S. Military Should Put Religious Freedom at the Front
    “After demands from Weinstein, the Air Force published, but has yet to distribute, a 27- page document, which includes a cover sheet that states: ‘COMPLIANCE WITH THIS PUBLICATION IS MANDATORY.’”

    First, Mikey Weinstein is a consultant for the Pentagon. That ain’t a volunteer position.

    Second, dunno what Constitution you’re reading, but the one kept at the Nat’l Archives doesn’t call it treason to be a practicing Christian. Mikey Weinstein does.

    Your high school students may not be swift enough to catch the bullshit you’re trying to peddle, but publishing this kinda crap on the Internets makes you look like a fucking troll ;)

    • Spuddie

      Being a “practicing Christian” does not mean coercing and compelling others to follow your religious views. When its done in a way to jeopardize military operations and undermine morale, its treasonous. If you feel the need to act like a missionary, don’t do it in the ranks. Its not the proper place for it. If you can’t abide by such rules, you have no place in the military.

      What is up with Bible Thumpers giving a pass on rape? They seem to be at the forefront on covering up and avoiding prosecution of military personnel committing sexual assault.

      • http://fb.me/MrMikeDavis Mike Davis

        Aw jeez, more of this bullshit?

        • Spuddie

          What witty repartee. I am slain by your knowledge and rhetorical skills. LOL.

          • http://fb.me/MrMikeDavis Mike Davis

            Yeah? Well, asstarded bigots don’t really merit a thoughtful respoonse. :)

            • Spuddie

              But I respond to you anyway out of boredom. =)

  • Guest

    Mr. Weinstein is a joke and is only doing this to gain popularity in his otherwise useless life. People like this should not even get airtime or allowed to spew his hatred towards the god fearing people of this country. Mr. Weinstein you have the right not to beloeve but I along with millions of others have the right to assemble and profess our religious beliefs. I feel really sorry for you Mr. Weinstein, life is to short to hate and be so up tight. You are probably needing those workouts so you don’t blow a blood vessel. May God bless you Mr. Weinstein.

  • sldde

    Jefferson was once accused of being a Deist while running for election, and defended by a friend for his Christian faith. Yet, atheists still hold to his letter to his Danbury Baptists as somehow believing their speech is more important than anyone else’s. Don’t tell me you religious beliefs, but I will express my atheists beliefs under the veil as somehow “better” or more scientifically based? Odd that we don’t see any atheists establishing charities to help those in need, yet herald themselves to be bereft of hypocrisy and helping the United States to be better off. Well, if your moral compass is based on convenience, I can see why….and what a scary world that is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mark.a.bender Mark Bender

    Thanks for the clarification and references about this topic Mr. Mehta. I would like to point out a correction for you though. You stated “You can’t tell your troops to pray when you’re a commanding officer. It’s an abuse of position that has no place in our military.” However, the email you referenced was a SFC who said he’d have his troops pray. SFC is an enlisted rank (E-6), not a commanding officer rank.

    • godlessveteran

      SFC/E-7 is a non-commissioned officer (NCO), one of the top 3 of the senior enlisted ranks, and has authority over those junior in rank.

      • http://www.facebook.com/mark.a.bender Mark Bender

        Quite aware of that. However, E-6 or E-7 is not a “commanding officer” position in any way. I was at those enlisted ranks before I retired. But yes, the NCO can have influence over his subordinates. It was just a matter of clarification of terms.

  • kb

    An atheist has more faith more conviction than most people think but its coming from deception and lies of the enemy. I pray right this very second as this is read our LORD and Saviour will open your eyes and ears and hearts and souls to the Love of GOD in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ. From this day forward the lies of the enemy are no longer hidden in darkness because you have the Light of the world. He told me “Find Me in My Word” make sure to start where we are at which is the New Covenant. P.S. God loves you♥

  • http://www.facebook.com/jason.wade.35325074 Jason Wade

    This is why I like the Internets: Stupid people can publish whatever they want, and the rest of us get to point and laugh.

  • John

    Sorry but a SFC can in no way be a Commanding Officer. If you are going to degrade or complain about someone’s actions, at least have some kind of understanding of the people/organizations you are putting down. Asking his fellow Christian believing troops is not an order. SMH

    • godlessveteran

      An E-7/SFC has command authority over the enlisted grades below him. Don’t believe it? Disobey an order from one, if you’re lower in rank.

      The SFC cited in the article (using contemptuous words against the President) sounds like one who WOULD order his troops to pray.

  • John D. Fiat

    Well, let’s take a look at a quote from this mild mannered Jew (sarcasm). Mikey Weinstein, “When I see anti-Semitism, I don’t fucking care if I live or die, someone’s going to get a fucking beating.” (from Backward Christian Soldiers @ Rationalist.org.uk). Well, Jews aren’t exactly known to be very good fighters, unless of course, they have military weapons (given to them by the stupid US government) in their hands. They just feel so invincible when they’re pointing a machine gun at a Palestinian baby! And since there is so much anti-Semitism out there (lol), I guess what this fat pussy is trying to say is that he’s going to get his ass kicked or killed. Let’s hope so!

    And as I’ve said before, the atheist Jew is an oxymoron. Sorry atheists, little (fat) Mikey is not really one of you, he’s just a dirty Zio-clown!

    • http://twitter.com/InMyUnbelief TCC

      Fuck off, you racist twit.

  • Ed

    It also seems to be a rather narrow argument. Weinstein wasn’t “hired by
    the Pentagon.” Yet Mehta made no comment on what Weinstein has written,
    beyond it being “blunt and provocative.” He goes on to single out some
    inflammatory verbiage from by implication “Christians.” By that
    standard, Mehta should also condemn Weinstein, who is just as
    inflammatory though restraining himself from curse words.

    Weinstein’s article was titled “Fundamentalist Christian Monsters…” It goes downhill from there.

    He spoke of “monsters and monstrous wrongs. And let me tell you what these bloody monsters thrive on.”

    He writes “against virulent religious oppression, these monstrosities cry out
    alligator tears in overflowing torrents and scream that it is, in fact,
    THEY who are the dispossessed, bereft and oppressed. C’mon, really, you
    pitiable unconstitutional carpetbaggers? It would be like the utter
    folly of 1960′s-era southern bigots howling like stuck pigs in protest
    that Rosa Parks’ civil rights activism is “abusing” them by destroying
    and disenfranchising their rights to sit in the front seat of buses in
    Montgomery, Alabama.”

    Argumentative tactics such as the previous red herring do not lend the
    slightest legitimacy to his protests. Are we really gullible enough to
    believe that all this is traceable to the inequities of segregation?
    Hasn’t Weinstein any better argument than accusation? Is this what
    “freedom” as advocated by Weinstein has come to.

    At subjective namecalling he excels, showing not the slightest shame (or proof for that matter) in his unending verbal assault:
    These bandits coagulate their stenchful substances in organizations such
    as the American Family Association (AFA), the ultra-fundamentalist
    Family Research Council (FRC), and the Chaplains Alliance for Religious
    Liberty (CARL). The basis of their ruinous unity is the bane of human
    existence and progress: horrific hatred and blinding bigotry.”

    He cannot objectively refrain from giving examples such as Fred Phelps,
    by implication Weinstein’s impaired concept of what a Christian is.

    Whining is a side benefit of Weinstein’s barrage. In short, he claims to be the victim: “It was a short, frenetic conversation that involved him explaining how
    certain groups are after him for all sorts of reasons, including his
    Jewish name and what MRFF fights for…”

    So, it can’t be because Weinstein’s professed defense of his mission
    involves name calling, accusation, unsupported generalization, and other
    reprehensible conduct? And this from an individual who “rationally
    reasons” in words such as: “If these fundamentalist Christian monsters of human degradation,
    marginalization, humiliation and tyranny cannot broker or barter your
    acceptance of their putrid theology, then they crave for your universal
    silence in the face of their rapacious reign of theocratic terror.”

    No, in truth Weinstein word’s sound very much like one who would
    silence. He’s made that quite clear with his unreasoned approach and
    Mehta’s unwillingness to move past his own narrow focus (consider the
    quote he pulls from Weinstein’s inflammatory article), is less than
    forthright. If he is a “friendly atheist,” as the old saying goes, “with
    such friends, we don’t need any enemies.” While he may correct one
    point, Mehta is neither objective or less than deceptive in this column
    when he fails to objectively address the whole issue. He’s a spin doctor
    and nothing else. And that should elicit any shame he might muster.

    Ed

  • knowledgeisgood

    An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, can you understand the word’s that came from my typing fingers? If not, you soon will, and that includes the author of this small artical, and of course, Mikey. Oh!!! what a cute name he call’s himself, Mikey.

  • xxfireboy

    Deny God gives reasons to continue the life being lived without God!

    Say one thing while denning another appeals to the “doing my thing” lie. Seeing God in nature is obvious to “everyone”, a truth that people can not change just by denning it.
    God said so in his Anger
    18But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.i 19They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God. Romans 1:18-20

    Mr. Mehta it could not get any more simpler or easier that this:
    A–
    9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. New King James Version Romans 10:9-10

    B–
    Next, find locally or online and order a copy of the New King James Version Bible

    C–
    Finally, find a local bible believing church and tell the pastor that you followed the instructions in Romans 10:9-10

    Three very easy steps to eternal life, guaranteed never to be “snatch out of” God’s hand. New King James Version John 10:28-29

  • Goldcoaster

    People minding other peoples business, telling them how they can/should live and what they can think. and always freaking libtards.. always so tolerant, until you disagree with them. then you learn who the real haters are.

    I was in the military and NEVER experienced any organized religious proselytyzing. PERIOD. and i doubt very seriously that it has become a problem since i was in.

    In God We Trust. In God We Trust. hear me Mikey? forever may it ring in your ears. and I dont practice any faith, so there.

  • Marisa Martin

    Why were government officials listening to him? Apparently they had to as part of their job- it wasn’t a cocktail party. Talk about “spin”

  • Dexter L. Wilson

    Someone needs to tell Weinstein that it was a group of Jews who financed George Washington’s Colonial Army, George was a devout, miracle believing Christian.


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