Waffle Fries Last Stand

August 3, 2012 By 53 Comments

by Calulu

(Or famewhoring For Jesus: What Does Fried Chicken, Jimmy Swaggart, The Duggars and Fox News Have in Common?)

Alright, so I know Chick Fil A and Fox News aren’t exactly Quiverfull supporters directly but I could not allow their media manipulation for “Good Christian Values” to pass without commentary.

It was with great amusement I watched the Chick Fil A August 1st “Good Christians Show Your Gay Hatred by Eating at Chick Fil A” Appreciation Day led by Fox New’s Mike Huckabee yesterday. While I was out running errands I noticed that there was a line around the building and drive thru was backed up past IHOP. I saw various people I knew from the scattered church community. I chuckled and drove on by. Later I heard the police had to be sent out there and at other CFAs to direct traffic. I guess you can’t get between a Southerner and their fried chicken when ‘Biblical Marriage’ is at stake.

I don’t eat at Chick Fil A and it has nothing to do with gays, the poor overworked home schooled kids working at the one by my house or any political affiliation. They fry their chicken in peanut oil and I have a severe peanut allergy. I prefer the chicken of my hometown, Popeyes, so much more. Have to have those hot peppers and special Cajun spices!

When Mr. Cathy came out against homosexuals and gay marriage I can’t say I was surprised. It’s been a well known fact for many years that they identify themselves as a “Christian” company. They give out scholarships to Christian colleges, they give money to a variety of “Christian” causes, just like Wal Mart, Toms of Maine and Dominos Pizza. In fact, Chick Fil A gives money to several groups listed by the Southern Poverty Law center as Hate Groups.

But really, it’s their business if that’s the business culture model they chose to use. It’s America and everyone is free to do whatever really stupid or smart thing they chose.

Just as an aside I remember back in season 8 of American Idol that when the finale came, between Kris Allen and Adam Lambert that it is rumored that CFA hosted large viewer parties with free food across Arkansas in order to get more locals to vote for Kris Allen. Not only was Kris Allen a local Arkansas boy, but he was a young worship leader and unapologetic Christian as opposed to Adam Lambert and his openly gay lifestyle. Rumor has it that CFA and other homophobic Christian organizations pulled out all stops in Arkansas to see that Kris won. When the allegations surfaced on a few news sites and blogs I laughed it off. Now, I’m not so sure.

This morning when I picked up my local morning paper I was pretty disgusted to see the smiling faces of some of the more, shall I call them ‘publicity hungry’ Christians in our town. You never seem them at the soup kitchen, the homeless shelter or the Free Clinic, you only see them in their pew and they perform as the “Super Christian!” whenever there is a reporter or cameraman around. Attention whoring over chicken as manipulated by Huckabee and Fox News.

I did like what this young man had to say about Christians involving themselves with the CFA Appreciation Day.

Most companies do not come out and announce their stances on things like gays or global warning, nor do their CEOs. Because it doesn’t matter.

So why CFA? The cynical side of me is thinking Mr. Cathy made his remarks knowing full well that Fox News and others would repeat his words ad infinitum. The ensuing controversy would drive more business his way. Were Fox News and Cathy in some sort of cahoots together? Especially since this has been such a hot button issue in our nation?

It seems that Fox News has been determined to distract America from the real problems of this nation, homelessness, lack of healthcare, crumbling infrastructure, the threat to the rights of women and our economic woes. They come up with things that capture the minds of those that are used to living in fear, the fundamentalists, the conservatives on the edge, the Teapartyists. Attention whoring for the minds of many Americans with false fears. Ooooh, gays are going to take over and turn you gay! Better stand up for straights by gorging on greasy chicken because we say so! Fame whoring CFA.

The first case of shamelessly fame whoring on television for the approval of Jesus I witnessed was way back when I lived in Louisiana and the Reverend Jimmy Swaggart started his television show, replete with tearful entreaties for dough to do God’s work here on the earth. If you didn’t sent him your money then poor lil’ Asians or Russians or other heathens might never hear the word o God and be sent to an eternal lake of fire for a round the clock barbequing. Also, if you donated today you’d get this lovely set of Ginsu knives with the Ten Commandments carved into the handles plus a copy of the Bible edited by Brother Jimmy and Brother Kent Hamsteaks book “Jesus and His Pet Dinosaur”.

It was a pretty opportunistic money-making scheme. Living in the same town as the ministry, attending college and working a few short blocks over from their organization afforded me the opportunity to see that it was a scam, plain and simple, well before my run in with Jimmy Swaggart. Scare the pants off the viewers with fear in the name of Jesus so they sent you money while you thank them with a few cheap Taiwan-made geegaws in return.

I know before I left Louisiana Brother Jimmy was investigated by the feds for possibly laundering Manuel Noriega’s drug money. Later when the scandal broke that Brother Jimmy was busy picking up hookers at the sleaziest nasty motel on Airline Hwy in the Baton Rouge/New Orleans area I cannot say I was surprised. It did slow down some of Jimmy Swaggart’s television antics as stations dropped him around the globe.

Changing channels a few weeks ago on a Sunday morning I caught a glimpse of Brother Jimmy still using fear and Jesus to get people to give to him. Except this time he was hawking an entire sideline of specialist Bibles and other trinkets to the faithful, the few that are left now. Old dog, same tricks, same medium and message. Pure narcissism with no love.

The first time I saw the Duggars on television I remember thinking how clever they were for being a visual witness to the world for the Quiverfull movement and Fundamental Evangelicalism. But I realized as time went on that the payoff they were getting was more than the mere physical check that the Discovery Channel paid or being an example to a non-believing world. They, like Chick Fil A, Fox News and Jimmy Swaggart plus countless other professed Christians in the media, were getting some sort of emotional payoff from being in front of the cameras with the ability to say their way was the right way. Leveraging their fame on their proclamations of being Jesus following Bible thumping Christians.

Self-aggrandizement seems to be the subtext behind all of these people. Not helping others. Not free speech, not witnessing to others. Pure, sheer “Looket me!!!! I loves Jesus!!!” More narcissistic behavior.

I guess since the Bible says that if you make a show of your faith, your praying, that you get all the reward you’re going to get by being seen that means none of these folks or others like them is likely to pass through the eye of that needle. They wonder why the world doesn’t rush to join them. Gee, I wonder why

Where is the love and why so much narcissism? Sick to death of Christians using the media to further their own twisted agendas plus to puff themselves up inside..

Comments open below

Read everything by Calulu!

Calulu lives near Washington DC , was raised Catholic in South Louisiana before falling in with a bunch of fallen Catholics whom had formed their own part Fundamentalist, part Evangelical church. After fifteen uncomfortable years drinking that Koolaid she left nearly 6 years ago. Her blog is Calulu – Roadkill on the Internet Superhighway

The Spiritual Abuse Survivor Blogs Network

NLQ Recommended Reading …

‘Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment‘ by Janet Heimlich

‘Quivering Daughters‘ by Hillary McFarland

‘Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement‘ by Kathryn Joyce

 

 

Filed Under: 20 and Counting by JimBob & Michelle Duggar, A Love That Multiplies by JimBob & Michelle Duggar, Coercive Religious Groups (Cults), Control, Dominionism / Christian Reconstruction, Drinking the Koolaid, Elitism, Fear tactics, Fundamentalism, Group Think, Hot Topics, Issues, JimBob & Michelle Duggar, Judgementalism, Legalism, Maintaining Appearances, Manipulation, Markers of a Cult, Marketing "Biblical Family Values", NLQ Miscellany, NLQ Open Comments, NLQ Stories, Perfectionism, Quiverfull Counterculture, Quiverfull in the News, Quiverfull Leaders, Quiverfull Resources, Quiverfull Topics, SASBN, Self-Righteousness, Sexuality, Spiritual Abuse, Spiritual Abuse Survivors, Spiritual Issues, The Spiritual Abuse Survivor Blogs Network Tagged With: , , , , 53 Comments
About Suzanne Calulu
  • wanderer

    Cannot agree more. This christianity that is more worried about winning their side in issues and painting themselves the victim/persecuted bears no resemblance to what I thought Jesus was about. I was disappointed repeatedly when people posted their picture with Chick-fil-a on the 1st. Every time I was like…really? I thought better of them.

  • Flora Kitty

    Excellent post. I don’t eat at Chick Fil A anyway. Although I have always wondered how many of these Christian bigots are against gays, because they get off on feeling dirty when crusing and dogging other men. (Women don’t count in their logic, but an uberbutch Michelle Duggar or one of her daughters would be priceless.) The Duggars make my skin crawl and Adam Lambert is more famous than Kris Allen, ha ha.

  • stevek

    I am on my way to Chick-FilA to support them on this Friday (which is kiss-in day, I guess). I don’t think this controversy was good for Chick-FilA because it will hurt their brand. Marriage is precious to Christians because it imitates the love of Christ for His Bride, the Church.

    Without marriage meaning something, the Darwinist position of evolution also states that there is no transcendent value to being human, or there is no God or ruler over the cosmos and this earth. So, I believe this article is misguided in attacking Christians for supporting Chick-FilA while supposedly ignoring social issues.

    • http://iamcoleslaw.blogspot.com/ Coleslaw

      Marriage will still mean something if LGBT people who love each other are allowed to get married, unless by “mean something” you mean “serve as a way to separate my kind of people from you low lifes”.

    • Lisa

      Sigh… Reading you’re comment, I feel the same way I do when I see a sign saying “If man came from apes, why are there still apes?” or when my friend said “atheists believe in nothing!” I want to facepalm, then sit the speaker down and explain to them, slowly and using small words, why their statement proves nothing other than the fact that they are totally ignorant on the subject they are declaiming about. I want to explain that while Darwin’s theory of natural selection is theoretical, evolution is not. I want to explain that the issue of marriage has nothing to do with the trancedent value of humanity, that neither Darwin nor the theory of natural selection has anything to do with whether or not the cosmos has a ruler, that…
      Oh, why am I bothering? You obviously love your ignorance, or you would have taken the time to educate yourself before opening your mouth and letting so much stupid fall out. “Misguided,” indeed.

  • Daniel

    It is sad to see that our author does not really understand the issue here. He further did not do his homework or he would know that many businesses support one side of the marriage issue. For example, Amazon.com made the largest donation ever to defend gay marriage. When one writes one should be accurate and educated about what they are writing about (Chick-Fil-A has grilled chicken as well).
    For the record, I am on my way to Chik-Fil-A as well. It is Friday and I am supporting their right to free speech. I am glad Christians are finally taking a stand in the area of politics.
    Eat more chicken.

    • Lizzy

      Free Speech does not mean what you appear to think it does. The government may not limit speech. That is all. It doesn’t mean that you can say anything and not have any consequences. Dan Cathy can say whatever he wants about gay marriage, but it’s totally legal for lots of people to say they want to have nothing to do with his business.

      Furthermore, what do you mean “Christians are finally taking a stand in the area of politics”? What country do you live in? Christians rule politics in this country. Every president in history has been a Christian. 90% of congress is Christian. You guys aren’t a minority.

    • Saraquill

      “When one writes one should be accurate and educated about what they are writing about.”
      Daniel, how carefully have you read this post? Is your surname Pot? I hope you enjoyed meeting Kettle. (In other words, you used the wrong pronoun, which makes it hard for me to take your comment seriously.)

  • MsS

    This line is perfect: “I guess you can’t get between a Southerner and their fried chicken when ‘Biblical Marriage’ is at stake”.
    I wish there was some kind of website index where those of us who wish to avoid giving our money to companies who stand in support of bigoted Christian values could go, so that we would know who to boycott. We don’t have a Fox News Corp. that interprets all the issues for us and tells us how to think and where to get our fried chicken. Those in opposition to the values held by CFA outnumber those who support it. We just need to be more organized!

    • Sandy

      Christians do more than buy chicken sandwiches to salve their conscience. They are the most generous to non-profits. Atheists and agnostics are the stingiest. According to the Barna group:

      “Christians tend to be the most generous group of donors. An examination of the three dominant subgroups within the Christian community showed that evangelicals, the 7% of the population who are most committed to the Christian faith, donated a mean of $4260 to all non-profit entities in 2007. Non-evangelical born again Christians, who represent another 37% of the public, donated a mean of $1581. The other 42% of the Christian population, who are aligned with a Christian church but are not born again, donated a mean of $865. Overall, the three segments of the Christian community averaged donations of $1426.

      The Christian giving was divided between Protestants (mean of $1705) and Catholics ($984).

      In contrast, Americans associated with non-Christian faiths gave away a mean of $905 during 2007. Atheists and agnostics provided an average of $467 to all non-profit organizations.”

      • Paula G V aka Yukimi

        That’s because they count tithes as money given to charities when most of that money only goes to the pockets fo the pastors or to build churches and not to help people. If you only count money who does go to charity or to help people, things are way different.

    • Mayara

      I found this one article that could be a start
      http://voices.yahoo.com/companies-anti-gay-policies-10988406.html?cat=3

  • SillyRabbit

    Ima gonna miss me some Chick-fil-A. Love the sammich. I just wanna say, “Shut up and sing” … er … I mean, “cook.” Shut up and cook. But alas, this goes much deeper than Dixie Chick Texas-bashing. While I don’t personally think that Fox and CFA had a ‘thang’ going, I certainly wouldn’t put it past them. Like you, I’m really disappointed in my friends out there who stood in line at CFA’s hate day. Very sad.

    • Sandy

      The real hate was coming from the gays who showed up on private property making out in front of children. Making out in a restaurant is very inappropriate and immature.

      • http://patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism Libby Anne

        How is making out in front of children some sort of horrible thing? When I was a kid my parents frequently “made out” in front of us, usually in the kitchen. I suspect that your concern about children (gasp!) seeing people making out has more to do with thinking gay people perverted than anything else. Also? I’ve never seen a law against making out in a restaurant. Immature? Sure. But hate? I’m not seeing where that allegation comes from at all!

  • Phatchick

    Kind of a moot point for me since the closest Chick-fil-A is in Milwaukee and I don’t care how good their chicken is, I’m not traveling over 100 miles to eat it. That said, if Mr. Kathy wants to be an ass and stick his foot in his mouth, he has every right to do so. If I want to call him on being an ass and tell him I wouldn’t feed his over-hyped poultry to my cat; well, that’s my right too. Jerks like him just hate being reminded that it goes both ways.

  • Saraquill

    There’s at least one branch of Christianity that encourages fasting weekly, and then donating the money that would have gone to food to charity instead. Surely that is a more profound way of showing faith than spending it on greasy mass produced meat.

    • Andie

      Yeah, but fasting and charity are sooooo haaaaard. Anyone (with money) can buy and consume a chicken sandwich. If only other Christian duties were this easy to fulfill. Want to shelter the homeless? Eat a sandwich. Comfort the sick and dying? ‘Hey, watch me eat this sandwich.’

      • madame

        You are right about the ease of eating a chicken sandwich vs. sheltering a homeless person or feeding the poor. Very right.
        But you are mixing apples and oranges here. Just because these people lined up to publicly support one cause doesn’t mean they don’t support other causes, like maybe feeding the poor.
        You could throw the exact same accusation against the homosexuals who would rather go and make out in front of a restaurant to show their intolerance of their views rather than get dirty and support a worthy cause. Aren’t they all for upholding human rights and dignity? why aren’t they using their time and energy fighting against marginalization of the poor or things like that rather than getting so offended by what some conservative Christian said on TV?

        • Madamoyzelle

          Oh please. Have you never gone to a State Fair, or to an amusement park?? Who has their hands in each other’s pants and is making out in public?
          I’ll give you a hint: It isn’t “The Gays.”

        • Lisa

          By showing their love for each other publically, the LGBTQ community IS protesting for human rights and dignity. They are standing up and fighting for all of us, even the people who hate them. My heart breaks for the homophobes whose children will kill themsleves because of their parents intolerance. Or the grandchildren who will be hurt when their parents (who tried to please their anti-gay parent by denying their same-sex attraction or pretending to be “cured”) marriage disolves under the pressure of being based on a lie. We who support equality and acceptance are doing it for you and yours as well, whether or not you realize it.

  • Sandy

    Calulu,
    I was one of the Christians who proudly bought sandwiches at Chick-Fil-A on Wednesday because I believe in freedom of speech and who agrees with Cathy’s stand on homosexual marriage. I also went Wednesday to show that the boycott will not work. The attention whores ( pun intended) are the homosexuals who showed at Chick-Fil-A’s around the country publicly having kiss-ins. This is an immature reaction. I and many others, especially who have children, find making out in public regardless of orientation disgusting and offensive. People who behave like this in public show themselves to be of low moral character and no way would I or many others want to support their cause. The more mature way for the gays to make a statement would have to just not patronize the restaurant and to recognize that Cathy has as much right to freedom of speech as they do.

    • suzannecalulu

      I think making out in front of the restaurant to make a point is probably as effective as eating at Chick Fil A to show you hate a people group. The chicken is super unhealthy as well. To quote The Daily Show in ten years gay marriage will still be around and so will lots of folks with type 2 diabetes from eating all that fast food… moot point ineffectual protest.

      • Sandy

        It is not effective when it backfires and gains no respect for the cause or the people in it. They acted like bunch of children who cound not have their way.

        • http://calulu.blogspot.com Calulu

          Et tu.. so did the Christians grinning and lining up to show their hatred of others via chicken..Christians should be ashamed of themselves for acting with such hate.

      • madame

        Calulu,
        I think it’s harsh to say that the people eating a sandwich at CFA were showing hatred. I don’t like how lack of support is immediately judged as hatred. It’s not.
        IMO, it’s the other side that is flipping out and showing hatred towards people who aren’t supportive of their cause and dare express their view publicly.

    • Lotus Elan

      They lined up to show they are against a group of people’s way of life. These people have zero control over what a person does in their private lives, and yet they are actively against LGBT communities. Since when did Christians have the right to tell people they don’t even know who they can and cannot love? Since when was a person’s private life public?

      Christians are supposed to “love one another.” Or has this basic rule that Jesus taught the Christians been thrown out the window?

      • Sandy

        Part of “loving others” is warning them that they are entering a dangerous and immoral life that could kill them. And I have to say in this case it is the gays that are making their private life public by having a public kiss-in.

        • Lotus Elan

          If you wish to believe that, then I’ll respect that. I understand where that comes from because that’s what various Christian churches teach.

          The LGBT community are making their private life public, yes, but so are the Christians who are coming out and saying ‘we don’t agree with the gay community’. Now, yes, perhaps the LGBT community acted childish in their response to those who lined up outside CFA. Perhaps they should have held signs, or not even shown up at all. They gave a response to show they didn’t agree with CFA. They want respect, not hate. They want equality, not to be treated like lesser humans.

          Personally, I don’t have any problem with people kissing in public. But–what of the straight couples who publicly kiss and hug and have make-out-fests in the streets day-to-day? Is that different? If so, why?

        • Madamoyzelle

          LOL WUT?
          “a dangerous and immoral life that could kill them.”
          What are you smoking?
          You mean like that Indiana Pastor who has poked god knows how many women, and then wants to put it in his wife?? How many married women have gotten herpes, STD’s, warts, and who know what other diseases because their “husbands” were unfaithful?? Or all of a sudden, granny goes off her rocker and says all kinds of vile words–and then is discovered to have tertiary syphillis because Dear Hubby was screwing around back in the Korean War?

          You’re safer in a gay marriage than in a “straight” one.

          My god, your hate and stupidity are just incredible.

          • Sandy

            Putting one’s penis into the exit hole for feces is stupid. Feces contain all kinds of harmful microorganisms like fecal coliform. Also the lining of the interior of the anus is thin and subject to tearing easily making homosexual more supsetible to many diseases and cancers. AIDS is 50 times higher in homosexual men than straight. http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/aug/09082609 and has links to Center of Disease control. Here is a list of medical studies of diseases and cancers prevalent in the homosexual lifestyle: http://home60515.com/4.html.

            You are the one with hate here. You don’t care that the homosexual lifestyle is a deadly one.

  • http://southernxyl.blogspot.com Laura(southernxyl)

    Actually, Lizzy, it is a First Amendment issue.

    WBEZ reported last week that Chicago’s Moreno now wants Chick fil A to put into writing that it “won’t support any groups with a political agenda, including those with an anti-gay marriage stance” before he’ll consider allowing zoning rights to a Chick fil A restaurant in his ward.

    “If they’re serious about that, and they’re willing to put that in writing and they’re willing to adopt that. I think those are the grounds where we can move forward,” Moreno said.

    “Chick-fil-A may have a pretty good case under the First Amendment if the city uses their religious or political beliefs as a basis for denying a business license or ability to do business in the city. That is the kind of thing that happens in fascist states,” said Hans von Spakovsky, a Heritage Foundation senior legal fellow and former Justice Department attorney to the assistant attorney general for civil rights.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/aug/1/picket-chicago-gop-file-human-rights-complaint-aga/

  • Sandy

    Referring to your picture above, many Christians do give to food banks and help out in homeless shelters. IN my town the major food bank and homeless shelter happens to be run by a non-denominational Christian charity, Miracle Hill Ministries. And also many churches have their own food banks and shelters that serve their communities. The Catholic Church also has a large mission outreach in many cities. Also, don’t forget the Salvation Army. Yes, non-Christians donate and volunteer their time in charities also but many of them are doing it for self–aggrandizement as well. Non-Christians can have selfish motives also in giving to charities in order to “feel good”.

    • suzannecalulu

      Salvation Army has funded anti Gay hate groups as much as Chick Fil A. Both companies give to Anti Gay organizations that have been tagged as Hate Groups by both the Southern Poverty Law Center and the US Justice Dept.

      Helping out to ‘feel good’ is a far different motive than ‘look at me!’

      • Sandy

        Non-Christians donate for others to “look at me” also. Why did the Amazon founder publicly donate 2.5 million to homosexual ? iT WAS “LOOK AT ME”. He could have donated privately. And You can’t get more “LOOK AT ME” than making out in a crowded restaurant. The people who have shown hate are the gays. They have no respect for other customers in the restaurant. They only care about themselves. What they did was childish. And from what I have read, it failed and backfired on them. Mr. Cathy only expressed his views. He did not say they could not come into the restaurant, or that they could never work there .Hate is not there. It is a privately held company and thw owner can donate to whoever he wants. The Kiss-in participants had the arrogant attitude of this asshat: http://www.examiner.com/video/liberal-bullies-chick-fil-a-employee-at-drive-through-window.

        As for the Southern Poverty Center, take them with a grain of salt. Read the court document from Morris Dee’s divorce proceedings. http://www.zianet.com/web/dees1.htm The man is a child molester. It is slander to group groups like Focus on the Family with White and Black Supremist groups. I would not expect less from a man who is pervert, liar, and child molester,

  • madame

    Every church I’ve belonged to placed huge emphasis on helping the poor, reaching out to the needy, opening the door to people who were looked down upon by society, etc… Moreover, every human being was treated with dignity. My parents offered shelter to the homeless, cared for disabled people, fed (and still feed) the hungry, and generally try to help people in need in their neighborhood. They (and many other christians I know) don’t care whether anyone ever sees what they do or not.

    Now, to the Chick-fil-a topic. I live thousands of miles away from any Chick-fil-a, so no way I can go support them by eating a sandwich. I believe they have the right to support whichever causes they believe in, and don’t need to be quiet about it. Christians I’ve talked with who are against LGTB marriage are not against the rights of homosexuals per se, just against their right to redefine marriage and to show no respect for people who don’t care or would rather not know about what goes on in their bedrooms. I happen to believe that God intended marriage to be between one man and one woman, so I won’t support a more inclusive definition of marriage. If they want a legalized union, then they can work on that.

    Homosexuals should stop thinking any reluctance to support their causes means hatred towards them. It’s not hatred, just reservation. We are all entitled to show reservation when we aren’t sure about the cause.
    I also agree with Sandy. I find gay rights demonstrations are very often gross and disrespectful of the general public. I don’t want to see what goes on in the privacy of your bedroom, and don’t ask me to rubber stamp it with my approval. Tolerance is NOT support.

    • madame

      I want to add to this statement: ” I won’t support a more inclusive definition of marriage. If they want a legalized union, then they can work on that.”
      As I said in a reply above, I believe both positions make valid points and should be heard out and not judged.
      I don’t like it when Christians get all heated up and start lambasting homosexuals as if they were the greatest sinners and the ones who are driving our society to the ground, because that is hateful and ignorant. I cannot stand Fred Phelps and his ilk.
      But I also believe that the church (and other faith groups) should be able to uphold their beliefs and show their support or lack thereof, just like any other group, in a respectful manner.

    • lucrezaborgia

      God intended marriage to be between one woman and one man? Where does it say that in the bible? The bible says nothing about polygamy, for one.

      Also, since when do Christians own the term marriage? Is marriage only valid if it’s the Christian conception of marriage?

      • madame

        Lucrezaborgia,
        Every passage in the Bible that talks about human marraige (not the spiritual Christ-church ones) talk about a man and a woman. In the beginning, God created man and then woman, and the first marriage was one man and one woman. I think whatever happened pre-fall is the ideal.
        The Bible never talks about one man and his husband, or one woman and her wife. Marriage is always between a husband and a wife.

        Re. Polygamy… interestingly, it’s always one man and more than one woman. You are right that the Bible doesn’t say anything for or against polygamy, but it doesn’t seem to endorse it or consider it ideal. Church leaders were to be “husbands of one wife”.

        While Christians don’t own the term marraige, Christians do have the right to look to the Bible for it’s definition of the term, right?
        Your second question is a good one. The law of the country or state can change the definition of marriage, but I still think the church and other spiritual entities should be free to follow their moral guidelines and have the right to campaign for them.

  • madame

    Calulu,
    Salvation army also clothes and feeds the poor, right?

    I think the word “hatred” has been redefined to mean “non-supportive”. I repeat myself, but I’ll say it again: tolerance doesn’t mean support.

    • Saraquill

      So when I am called worthless and undeserving of services, it’s only the person speaking that is bad, not those who nod their heads, snicker or are glad that someone is hurt?

      Sometimes doing nothing or staying quiet is just as bad as committing the action.

  • madame

    This is a reply from the post “Why the Church Failed Yesterday” that you linked to. It’s response #8.

    “My take is different.

    While I am by no means a history scholar, I have long read, studied, and attempted to keep mindful of, world history in our not so distant past. In particular, the social, religious, Christian (as I strongly believe religious and Christian to be distinct and not necessarily the same), and political climate in the weeks, months, and year upon year, leading up to the actual days of Germany, Hitler, and the trampling/reworking/dismissal of its “constitution” as well as the political suppression of a nations free speech, individual liberties, and life at the hands of political figures.

    It didn’t happen in one day.
    It didn’t happen in one month.
    It didn’t happen in one year.
    It happened over a course of days, months, and years in the face of a largely silent citizenry.

    Given said background, I found the comments made by the Mayors of Chicago and Boston to be troubling and appalling. I was unnerved by the ego required to declare such individual “Chic-Fil-A shall not pass!” edicts in light of the those little things we refer to here in the United States as personal belief, personal opinion, freedom of speech, and the US Constitution.

    I didn’t make my way to CFA the other day but had I been waiting in my car or standing on foot, I would have been there as an American Citizen (who happens to be a Christian) supporting the right of a fellow American Citizen to be interviewed, asked “What do you believe,” questions, to respond honestly to said questions.

    God help us, all of those, if this slippery slope continues to go unnoticed, for eventually it may very well be YOUR spoken opinions, beliefs; YOUR written FB messages and posts; YOUR monitored cell phone conversation; YOUR whispered convictions which are used to destroy you.

    Okay, I’m done now.”

    I think she makes a very good point.

    And I’m done now too :)

    • Madamoyzelle

      People really don’t understand Free Speech. Free Speech means you can speak against the government. And the police cannot come and arrest you because you spoke out against the President. Supposedly.

      However. If you speak out publicly that you are against a group of people because you don’t like the way they live, then yes, there are repercussions to that speech. The councilman absolutely has the right to free speech, and to tell Mr. Cathy to take his restaurant elsewhere. And if the people the councilman represents agree with him, then CFA can go pound salt. People all across the US have done it against Wal-Mart–they said NO to Wal-Mart, and Wal-Mart could not set up shop in that city.

      Words DO have meaning. When you say something against another group, there CAN be repercussions. And why are you Christians so surprised about that? Do you REALLY think that you, as a majority, can throw your weight around, squash everybody else, set up this country in whatever image of the deity that is popular that day, and everybody else should just shut up and take it? Why don’t you take your show to Iran? They do that there. This is the United States of America. ALL people have rights here–not just Christians!

      • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com Retha

        You say: “The councilman absolutely has the right to free speech, and to tell Mr. Cathy to take his restaurant elsewhere. ”
        Does he have that right as a private citizen to say it, or also as city representative to enforce it?

        If another councillor in another city tells a (pro-)gay business owner the same, will you still say it is the counsellor’s right?

        • madame

          Good question, Retha.

        • Madamoyzelle

          He has the right as city councilman to enforce it. Remember this is a representative democracy. If his constituents DON”T want CFA, then certainly, the city has the right to deny permits to set up shop. It has been done for Wal-Mart. It can also be done for CFA.

          It is called “Politics.” People like to sneer about “Politics.” But that is how we determine how we will live in this country.

          If the councilman’s constituency does want CFA to set up shop, and he politics to prevent it, then they can vote him out. That is how politics work.

          Incidentally, for those of you complaining about “Gays making out.” I have a complaint, too. Traffic on the main thoroughfare was blocked by these selfish people who don’t care about anybody else being able to move freely on the road. People had to sit for hours because some folks want to stick their noses into somebody else’s privates. The car exhaust and air pollution were noisome. Not really a good advertisement for “Christian Love.”

        • Madamoyzelle

          People come out against porn shops. People come out against head shops. People come out against little shops that look like they sell items of “witch craft.” Most of those people coming out against these shops are Christians. And there is enough of a hubbub that the shops are forced to leave.

          I will say it again. People, both Christian and non-Christian alike, came out against Wal-Mart. They could not open a store in a California location. There was another mid-western location they could not get into, either.

          Guess what? The same tactics can be used against CFA, too. Why are you so surprised? Now the shoe is on the other foot, and it pinches?

      • madame

        You are very right, Mademoyzelle.
        Everyone has rights, and everyone should be able to express their beliefs. There is a difference between the westboro baptist church’s banners and slogans (hateful, they say things like “god hates you”) and a person answering “I uphold traditional marriage” or “I don’t want marriage to be redefined” in an interview. The latter statements offend some people, and some “feel hated”, but everyone is offended at some point by something someone else says, and some people will feel hated by what others say sometimes. As a Christian, I’ve faced my share of lack of respect from people, judgment, being called “ignorant” and “bigoted”, and being accused of hating people I don’t hate just because I can’t bring myself to accept some aspect of their lifestyle.
        What bothers me is it’s increasingly OK to call Christians pretty hateful names like “ignorant bigots” or “hateful bigots”, and nobody thinks anything of it. Christians are being told it’s not OK to find their moral standard in the Bible as they understand it. We are now told we should very quietly live our lives, never standing up for what we believe, because saying that we believe something that goes against the grain is being “hateful”. It stinks of double standards.

        Tolerance is all about living in peace with people you don’t agree with, hearing what they say and shaking your head sometimes, but living and letting live.
        I agree with the response I posted above because she is pointing out WHY it’s so important that we defend our right to freedom of belief and expression of that belief. It could be you whose belief is considered “wrong” and you who is silenced. You who is considered hateful because you can’t accept what a majority or minority is telling you you should accept.

        • Madamoyzelle

          Madame, I can appreciate what you say. However, please remember that Gays are also called names and are viciously discrimated against. Muslims in this country are dealt with suspiciously. Black men cannot drive without being pulled over by the cops and asked what they are doing in a locality. In New York, black men cannot walk the streets in peace. The cops can stop them and search them without any cause whatsoever.

          You are concerned about being silenced. Somebody else worried about a slippery slope. We have passed that long ago–at least, if you are a person of color. And it is now hitting women–our freedoms are being increasingly questioned. Two women, State Reps in the Michigan legislature, were silenced for saying “vagina” in legislative session.

          The LAST of my worries are about the rights of Christians. It is Christians who are doing their level best to turn this into a “Christian” nation and who want to take away the freedoms that many men and women have died to defend. I would bet that the men who silenced the ELECTED women were Christians.

          Christians have never had it so good. In fact, they are so strong and powerful that they want to tell other people all over the world, people in the military, people they don’t even know, how to live. And they are shocked! Shocked! when those people disagree and say, “No. We don’t like your way. We’ve got something better.” And when that happens, suddenly, the Christians are victims. Heh. It’s just because they are so spoiled, having had their own way for so long. They’ve not been challenged.

          I worry about a religious war. Look at this CFA mess.

  • http://calulu.blogspot.com Calulu

    The saddest thing about the Chick Fil A appreciation day is that those being manipulated for coporate financial profit only have no clue someone was purposely pulling their strings.

    • Madamoyzelle

      I thought about that. Do you remember JCPenney had an ad wherein a child had 2 fathers. The religious right came out in droves. They circulated a petition in which they actually said that the corporation should JUST SELL CLOTHES and not say anything! And they are organizing a boycott.

      Why hasn’t the Religious Right come out and told CFA to “Just Sell Chicken?” Why are they celebrating Mr. Cathy? Why is the Religious Right so offended that the Non-Religious Right is offended by CFA? Why is the Religious Right upset because Gays want to organize a boycott, and want to protest against the CFA? The Religious Right does that sort of thing ALL the time.

      It is the exact same action. The exact same thinking process. But undertaken by the other side! So where is all the outrage coming from? That people who disagree refuse to be silent?

  • Nancy B

    All of this reminds me of the truism: Christianity hasn’t failed, it’s just never been tried.

  • Madamoyzelle

    Calulu, thanks for the article.