Quoting Quiverfull: When Are You ‘Saved’?

by Zsuzsanna Anderson from Are They All Yours? – Q & A Answers Part 2

I’ve always wondered about children getting saved. I’ve heard many stories about people who thought they were saved when they were young, only to find out they were wrong. But, at the same time, I wouldn’t want a child to grow up doubting his salvation just because he was young. How do you know a child has grasped the gospel?


Great question! I think where a lot of the confusion comes from is that there are many who, on the one hand, teach salvation by grace through faith alone, not works, even as they talk about how one must turn from their sins in order to be saved, or at least be willing to. This is often falsely referred to as “repentance.” While repenting of sins is something every Christian should always strive to do, and while repenting of unbelief or false religion is an integral part of getting saved, it is heresy to say that one cannot be saved unless they give up XYZ the sin.

Others teach that if one is truly saved, there will be tears, crying, and strong emotions. I read the testimony of the wife of a missionary a few years back who had grown up in church her whole life, but as an adult for many years still struggled with doubting her salvation, because she agonized over not having gotten saved with enough feeling or sincerity. Not until she had asked Jesus to save her, while feeling completely broken (I am paraphrasing), was she sure of her salvation. To be sure, she had understood all along that salvation was through believing on Jesus, and she DID believe on Him. My take is that she was either saved all along, or that if she thought she had to add a certain amount of emotion and tears in order to truly be saved, she still is not saved because she must not understand that believing/faith is ALL it takes.
Comments open below

QUOTING QUIVERFULL is a regular feature of NLQ – we present the actual words of noted Quiverfull leaders and ask our readers: What do you think? Agree? Disagree? This is the place to state your opinion. Please, let’s keep it respectful – but at the same time, we encourage readers to examine the ideas of Quiverfull honestly and thoughtfully.

NLQ Recommended Reading …

Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment‘ by Janet Heimlich

Quivering Daughters‘ by Hillary McFarland

Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement‘ by Kathryn Joyce

 

About Suzanne Calulu
  • Baby_Raptor

    The entire concept of salvation makes no sense. Why should we need to be saved from how god created us to be? And why should we trust the very same god who created us the way we are, and then tells us how horrible we are and *blames it on us* to save us?

    When people pull that kind of crap, we call it the abuse it is. But when god does it, somehow it’s love and he’s the ultimate moral authority.

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    In order to talk about the topic at all, you need to take the premises that believers actually adhere to, and then explain how they make no sense. We don’t have to be saved from being made the way we were, we need to be saved from how we deviated from it. I know, you don’t believe a word of it and is free to not believe.
    But the question/ rant that God created us this way and then want us to change do not have to be answered by religious believers – as we do not believe that He made us sinful.

  • Saraquill

    IT rather seems like a case of moving the goalposts. “You may be saved, but are you saved *enough?*”

  • Trollface McGee

    Yes, let’s make a bunch of confusing and legalistic obstacles to belief that would be difficult for an adult to make sense of, and lets teach it to kids, brilliant…
    I know kids who grew up in fundamentalist homes who were terrified that they weren’t saved because they did X or didn’t do Y or thought Z. Faith should be a source of comfort for a child, not a source of fear. These parents aren’t doing anything good for the child’s soul or their mental well-being.

  • Independent Thinker

    “We don’t have to be saved from being made the way we were, we need to be saved from how we deviated from it.” Who says we have deviated from the way we are born? Unfortunately, we have children come into the world in a nearly vegetative state. Years later they can still be functioning at the level of an infant. Those people have deviated from anything just stated in a perpetual state for many years. Sin is either a verbal or physical act. What if the person is incapable of verbalizing anything or performing physical acts? The only way for your theory to work is the person must progress through there development with only a few roadblocks biologically. A person with significant health problems may not be made sinful because of mental and physical disabilities make them incapable of sin.

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    You raise a valuable theological question. I don’t have all the answers, but simply objected to someone criticizing the Christian God for something which, by (a) the view Christians have of Him, or (b) the view that can be had of Him from the Bible, is not something that could be said of Him. Anyone who want to complain about His alleged actions without using either of these sources, need to prove that the actions they attribute to Him is indeed His.

    On your topic, there are several clues that people who knew less will not be judged like those who knew about Jesus and never wanted to follow Him. For example, Jesus said: ”

    Mat 11:21-23 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
    But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
    And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.”
    I am sure that He can also treat those right who are too intellectually handicapped to understand right from wrong, or who never make it past baby-hood.

  • Independent Thinker

    So under your theory salvation waivers exist?

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    I don’t get what you asked?

    waiv·er Definition:
    “relinquishing of right: the voluntary surrender of a right or claim”

    How am I saying anyone voluntarily surrender the claim to salvation?

  • Madame

    “Faith should be a source of comfort for a child, not a source of fear”.
    Amen!
    And for an adult, too.

  • Hannah

    I think people need to give up the whole “who is saved?” debate. Have your faith, and trust that the God *loves you* and all of us. I believe in a God who is looking for reasons to *let people in* to his kingdom, not one who’s trying to keep anyone not perfect out.

    Do I know if the guy sitting next to me in the coffee shop is “saved”? No. But it doesn’t matter, because it’s not up to ME to determine that. I don’t get to say “you had doubts and converted wrong, so you’re not really saved even though you think you are”. I’m not God. I don’t get to make those kinds of judgments. And neither do you, Zsuzsanna.

  • Independent Thinker

    The word wavier has more than one definition. Wavier in the context of the question I posted is ” A dispensation, as from a rule or penalty.” As in the context of an exemption.

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    I believe God is just, at the very least. (Often He is merciful, which is better.) That would mean exemption from penalty for those who did no wrong. But the Bible gives no clear teaching on who did no wrong. (I certainly won’t accept the poetic statement in Ps 51:5 as meant to be teaching on the
    subject. Poetry is a different form of literature.)

    That would not mean exemption for Tyre or Sodom.

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    “I believe in a God who is looking for reasons to *let people in* to his kingdom, not one who’s trying to keep anyone not perfect out. ”
    This.

  • Independent Thinker

    I never asked about Tyre or Sodom. I am glad you see the bible doesn’t handle the topic of salvation comprehensively. That some issues regarding salavation are not addressed in scripture thus a loophole exists.

  • brbr2424

    Why are you capitalizing he and him in the middle of a sentence. I understand that the Christian god also happens to be named God. However, he and him are pronouns, not proper nouns. Is the Christian god also named He and Him?

  • http://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/ Retha Faurie

    Thank you for the question. I’ve been blogging/ commenting on blogs for years, and only now I researched your question, I noticed that my mother tongue grammar rules (capital letters for He and Him when referring to God) does not apply in English.

  • texcee

    I was raised Southern Baptist and we were taught that you were old enough to be ‘saved’ when you were old enough to be able to understand that you were a sinner and voluntarily gave your life to Jesus. That was generally when a child was about 8 or 9. From that point you were baptized by immersion and “joined the church”. They also taught “once saved, always saved”, and that the only thing that would revoke that salvation was the total rejection of Jesus. There was no infant baptism although we had a ceremony in which parents dedicated their newborns to Christ and pledged to raise them in faith. Until these children were old enough to asked to be saved, they were considered innocent of sin. However, once you were old enough to be saved but didn’t, then you were a full-fledged sinner and eligible to go to hell. Many a kid walked the aisle to the altar out of fear (me, included) and was baptized after a hellfire and damnation sermon.

  • texcee

    Not saying anything other than this what I was raised in, btw.


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