Secular victory: NC High School students win right to start atheist club

In a victory for young atheists, a high school in North Carolina will allow students to form a chapter of the Secular Student Alliance after initially refusing to do so.

The decision to allow the atheist club was made only after significant pressure was brought to bear by the Secular Student Alliance (SSA), the Freedom From Religion Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union.

For over a year, administrators at Pisgah High School in Waynesville, North Carolina, told students they could not form a secular student group because it would not “fit in” at the school. However, in the face of a legal challenge for violating the students’ rights, and a great deal of public pressure and bad publicity, school administrators relented, and decided to allow students to form the club earlier this month.

The Friendly Atheist reports 15-year-old Kalei Wilson and her brother Ben (who attempted, to no avail, to start the same group last semester) will each be receiving $1,000 scholarships from the Freedom From Religion Foundation for their courage and effort in the face of oppression, ignorance, and even threats.

NY Daily News reports there already is an active Christian group on the Pisgah High School campus, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, aka the “Bible Club.” The Christian group’s goals are made clear on the Pisgah High School website: “The vision of FCA at Pisgah is to see our school and community impacted for Jesus Christ through the influence of athletes and coaches.”

In a statement, August E. Brunsman IV, executive director of the SSA, said:

“We are thrilled to see this victory for Kalei and all of the students at Pisgah High School! We fight everyday to ensure students’ rights aren’t infringed upon, and are pleased with this response from Haywood County Schools.”

According to a press release from the SSA:

“The Secular Student Alliance plans to keep a close watch on Pisgah High School to ensure Kalei and her fellow students can build her community without any further violations of their rights. We are certain the administration will do the right thing and follow the law when it comes to students building communities.”

Kalei reports “about 20 students have said they are going to come to the first meeting but I don’t know if they all will,” noting “some kids have been very mean…”

Congratulations to Kalei Wilson, her brother Ben, and young freethinkers everywhere with the courage to stand up for reason in the face of superstition and ignorance. If you want to help support the SSA Club at Pisgah High, the group has a go fund me page.

Kalei Wilson, Pisgah High School Secular Student Alliance
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  • Ray

    Good for them! People will question why atheists would gather like religious followers but the reason is simple; strength in numbers. Knowing that there are others that are non-believers is comforting for those of us that witness religions on display each and everyday and are afraid to say something out of fear of retaliation (social acceptance, passed over for a promotion, etc.).

  • Kelly A

    good job! don’t expect many members though that “other group” will harass and abuse them into shame. they aren’t a very nice group of people :/ but you are brave and deserve support!

    • Amy C.

      We believers don’t want to harass or abuse or even put you to shame…We want you to know the truth and you push that away!! You guys scoff at the Bible not because of science but because of sin…Yes, you had to bring that up didn’t you is probably what you are thinking… Yes I did and I want you all to know the truth because of this life you are either going to go to Heaven(wonderful place) or Hell(Pain and separation). There is a heaven and hell!! We didn’t just happen to “appear” one day!! You and me were CREATED by GOD!!!! There is a God just look around at creation outside!!! You can’t create something from NOTHING!!! We don’t want to be mean to you,we just want you to know the truth!! Don’t surpass it any longer!!

      • Kelly A

        see, great example. you are calling millions of
        years “just happen to “appear” one day” – that’s ridiculous. nobody thinks that. no wonder you can’t comprehend evolution you can’t comprehend time. so let me ask you something amy since you brought up heaven. i’ve always wondered this, and since you claim to want to help: what (SPECIFICALLY) do you amy, plan on doing in heaven once you get there. specifics. not “love my lord”. what specifically will you be doing with your time? after a few thousand years have passed what will you do then?
        after a million? specifically. because you have thought about this so you must have some opinion. enlighten me please.

        • Amy C.

          It didn’t just appear one day. God created the heavens and the earth(Genesis 1:1 and Psalm 19:1). When we as believers(Christians) die we go to heaven and what we will do is worship God for eternity! We will sing praises to the Lord forever! We will be in heaven forever and sadly those of who reject the truth or scoff at the Bible and everything will be thrown into hell sadly! God doesn’t want you or anyone to perish(2 Peter 3:9). There’s a difference between opinion and knowledge.

          • Amy C.

            I believe what I believe because God has revealed it to me not “oh He told me this”. :)

      • Kelly A

        hey amy did you hear? she isn’t having this group anymore because christians threatened her. just like i said would happen. you violent scum are so predictable.

        • Amy C.

          Not true. We as believers are not threatening, we are just trying to share the gospel truth!

          • Mackinz

            …With threats of bodily harm?

            Also, “No True Scotsman.”

          • Amy C.

            We are not out to get you guys! We are to love you and pray that you come to know the absolute truth.

          • Amy C.

            What’s that suppose to mean?

          • Danny

            ‘No True Scotsman’ is a logical fallacy. When faced with the truth that the girl did face harassment contradicting your initial claim that ‘We believers don’t want to harass or abuse or even put you to shame’, you didn’t admit being wrong. A quote from an update of this article on this site,

            ‘This morning I was called “Satan” by one Christian girl who first called me a “dumb c&^t b*&^h!”’

            I can truly feel the love and I bet she really did too.

          • Amy C.

            Okay, I can’t help you there and she probably called you dumb because you believe in “THE BIG BANG THEORY” which is A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Danny

            Not me. I was quoting that from the article about the girl from this article who decided to stop the atheist club since she got so much hate. Christians were the ones being awful to her.

            Go on.. tell me about what you know about the Big Bang theory 😀 If you think it’s stupid, let’s see how much you know.

          • Amy C.

            How are we(As Christians) being awful?!

            The Big Bang theory is “bad science” because it contradicts the story of the creation of the world found in Genesis, according to World Net Daily contributor David Rives.

            “If you look at the science behind astronomy — the good science — it backs up what the Bible says, that in six days God created everything,” he said on an episode of Creation Today that was uploaded to YouTube on Friday.

            “Now, today we have a lot of atheistic scientists who are telling us, ‘You can’t believe the Bible,’ that everything is the result of an explosion 14 billion years ago, and I believe that is bad science,” Rives continued. “It doesn’t line up with the Bible, and it has a lot of problems that those scientists don’t want to tell you. You can study astronomy no problem at all, as long as you stick to the facts of astronomy. The scientific, empirical data that can be seen and demonstrated.”

            Creation Today host Eric Hovind asked how it was possible to simultaneously believe modern astronomy and believe the Earth was only about 6,000 years old.

            “I believe in six literal days God created everything, that on day four he created the stars, that’s what the Bible says, and the information that we are being told that a lot of universities are teaching us about astronomy is nothing but bad science,” Rives replied.

            The creationist astronomer claimed there were a number of unanswered questions about the Big Bang theory. Christians, on the other hand, had no unanswered questions regarding the creation of the universe because all the answers were provided by the Bible, Rives said.

          • Amy C.

            WHAT DO YOU SAY NOW GUYS!!!!!

          • Amy C.
          • Amy C.

            Its true we don’t we want to love you guys as God has loved us! Our goal isn’t to win a debate it is to win those we talk to to Christ!!

          • Danny

            You don’t want to love us? What happened to love thy neighbour? Jesus loved all, even the sinners. You are not a real Christian unless you love each and every person in the world. And yes, I have read the Bible. Many times.

          • Amy C.

            But just because you have read the Bible many times doesn’t make you a Christian or you are a good person. We do love you guys and we love because Christ loved us just!! “Love thy neighbor” is not just a neighbor its those who are in your life!

          • Danny

            I never said I was a Christian nor do you know the kind of person I am.

            You can’t use the Bible to prove that the Bible is true. And there is no bad science. Science just is.

          • probablysomejerk

            I love “Science just is.”

            There is, of course, falsifying data. But that’s not science, that’s lying about science.

      • Adam

        Heaven and hell dont exist. We dont want christians bothering the rest of the rational world with your illogical thought processes. You people are a nuisance.

        • Amy C.

          Okay, you can call us what you want but it doesn’t change the truth. Heaven and Hell do exist.

          • Adam

            No they dont theres no reason to believe they do. Thousands of religions older than christianity all have different versions of heaven and hell. All those religions are now considered myths . The same reason those old gods and religions are considered myths is the same reason atheists consider christianity and islam and current religions myths. Why dont you believe in zeus and the olympians anymore? Theres books and stories about them claiming their legitimacy. Prove to me they dont exist. Youve never seen heaven or hell. Nobody has. You cant detect either in any way.

  • Amy C.

    There is no such as an atheist. You guys know there is a God but you refuse to accept Him…Look outside….This didn’t happen by “chance” or the “Big Bang Theory”….We didn’t just appear! Someday you will stand before an awesome and holy God and he’s going to ask you, “Why should I let you in? “The answer to this question is because of what the Lord did on the cross!” If this happened by the “Big Bang Theory” then who is in charge of matter and where did it come from if there is NO GOD and this just HAPPENED by chance!! The evidence around us is evident that there is someone BIG out there like an awesome God perhaps? YES!!!!!! There is a God out there!!

    • Kelly A

      zero evidence. 0 (the bible isn’t evidence so don’t go there)

      • Amy C.

        There is so evidence!! Look at the world around you!! You can’t created something out of nothing and the big bang theory is a lie!

        • Kelly A

          your book is a lie. you do realize the contradictions in the bible because you have read it so i don’t need to point them out to you. either your god is not smart or that book was written by men who weren’t that smart. which is it?

          • Amy C.

            The Bible is the inspired word of God and God used men to write it! The Bible is infallible!!

          • Adam

            If the bible is infallible then why does it get basic understood facts wrong? If the bible was infallible and perfect it wouldnt need people to interpret it. Religion only ever evolves. There wouldnt be so many religions if it were perfect. People would understand it perfectly and there wouldnt be different versions and interpretations of it that has spawned so many different religions. This is proof the bible is not infallible.

          • Amy C.

            Why are you so certain that the “Big Bang” happened and that the world is a “MILLION” years old?! Give me evidence!

          • Adam

            The cosmic microwave background radiation is primordial radiation left over from some universe sized explosion of something. Also the galaxies have been observed to be speeding away in all directions. Simple logic and a little backwards extrapolation would lead one to think they mustve started closely together and just keep going back they have to get closer since getting closer is the opposite of moving away from each other lol cmon. The earth is 4.5 billion years old not a million. We know this by studying rock and ice layers and using the isotopes and half lives of elements in the rocks. We know all this because its observed

          • Amy C.

            bahahahahahaha that’s stupid!!

          • Adam

            You have no reason why its stupid and no reason for anyone to believe the bible isnt stupid

          • Amy C.

            hahahaha its not stupid!!

          • Adam

            But it actually is lol

          • Ryan

            I’m thinking that Amy C is a troll account. No one could be this clueless.

          • Adam

            I would love to believe this is a troll account but sadly there really are people this dumb lol like ken ham haha

          • Amy C.

            Ken Ham is not dumb!!

          • Adam

            I can tell you are a creationist. Ken ham is literally the definition of deluded idiot. Lol

          • Amy C.

            You are correct! I am a creationist! :)

          • Adam

            Knew it lol no wonder your claims all make no sense. Im deeply sorry for you. Whoever made you believe this stuff is truly evil

          • Amy C.

            How do they not make any sense? How can I make them clear for you?

          • Adam

            You couldnt make them any clearer if you tried. I understand what youre saying and what im saying is that your claims are ridiculous

          • Amy C.

            I’m not and I’m also not clueless.

          • Amy C.

            My Bible is not a lie

          • Kelly A

            which bible are we talking about again?

          • Amy C.

            The inspired word of God!

        • Adam

          You are claiming fallacious reasoning. Just because i see something beautiful doesnt automatically mean god did it. You base your claims off nothing. The bible is not a reliable source in the slightest.

          • Amy C.

            Yes, the Bible is reliable and God did create the universe! I’m not using fallacious reasoning. And I base my claims on the Word of God because it is my authority when sharing the gospel.

          • Adam

            No actually the bible is very unreliable. It gets many historical facts wrong. Its also full of contradictions and has been translated so many times with thousands of different versions that its statistically minuscule that its reliable. The bible got the issue of human slavery and rape completely wrong. Its dates for when camels existed are off by about 600 years. And the reason using the bible as proof the bible is true and god exist would be equivalent to me saying that this comic book says spiderman exists. How do i know well because this book says spiderman exists and this book claims to be the truth so spiderman must exist. Its called circular reasoning and its a fallacy

          • Amy C.

            The Bible is very reliable! No it doesn’t and isn’t. No what you just told me is INCORRECT MISTER!!!

          • Adam

            The bible isnt reliable. What i just told you is 100% correct. If it isnt please point out any flaws in my logic. The bible says that christians can own slaves and beat them up to the point of death. The bible condones rape and murder and if your daughter gets raped she is to marry her rapist and the rapist is to pay the father a dowry of virgins. That is what the bible says. Your logic isnt logic at all

          • Amy C.

            Give a scripture reference that it says that!

          • Ryan

            Deuteronomy 22:28-29

            New International Version (NIV)

            28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered,29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

          • Amy C.

            The passage just proves how sinful man is!

          • Ryan

            You’re the one who asked for the scripture reference. All it took was a quick search on Google.

            I can’t figure out if you’re really this clueless, or just an internet troll.

          • Amy C.

            I understood your reply perfectly.

          • Adam

            That is directly from god lol god wants a woman who is raped to marry her raper. So if you get raped by christian scripture you have to marry him

          • Amy C.

            That’s your perspective!

          • Adam

            No actually its yours lol. You said god told man what to write. God is a huge dick. Hes massacred millions of people approximately 25 million the total deaths caused by satan in the bible are about 60. God is aass murdering ego maniac.

          • Amy C.

            Okay, so you want to cuss at me now?…..Cussing is wrong and its a SIN!!

          • Adam

            Cussing is a made up idea. Words are simply words im sorry your baby ears cant handle adult concepts lol. The same still stands and that is that sin is not real. People arent born with sin. Sin was made up by religious people so people would follow their religion and give their money away to greedy bastards in the church.

          • Amy C.

            I’m actually nineteen and its wrong! And sin wasn’t a made up by religious people. People are born in sin(Psalm 51:1).

          • Adam

            Thats wonderful im also 19 lol and there you go quoting the bible again. Do you not realize the bible is useless to me. How do you know the bible is reliable? How do you know the bible isnt a lie? Why dont you think it is?

          • Adam

            Also the appeal to authority/majority fallacy is another you keep using. Just because millions of people are disillusioned by an idea doesnt mean the idea is true

        • Danny

          And your God supposedly did. Why does the constraints not apply to him?

    • Adam

      Your ignorant comments show a severe lack of understanding in basic physical principles and laws. The universe wasnt created out of nothing that is not what the big bang is. Energy created matter because all matter is energy at its core and energy is what brings life and evolution brings complex life such as humans. Nothing did not produce something there has always been energy because energy is never created or destroyed only transformed. So read a real book about real life and educate yourself dont continue reading fairy tales.

      • Amy C.

        You just don’t get it which is sad. The universe was created by God!

        • Kelly A

          ZERO PROOF

          • Amy C.

            Look outside…………..IT DID NOT HAPPENED BY the “BIG BANG THEORY!”

          • Adam

            Yeah actually given the evidence for the big bang its quite likely it did. And the big bang only gave rise to simple atoms and gases and the laws of physics. Evolution through energetic equilibrium and other thermal processes took care of the rest. You lack an understanding of time scale needed to accomplish this. Its actually very easy to create simple cells from primordial chaos. Simple rna just needs a spark of energy and life practically creates itself in its most simple single celled form. This took billions of years not 6 days

          • Amy C.

            The big bang theory is a lie! It really took six twenty-four hour days! I understand perfectly!

          • Adam

            Why is it a lie? You keep saying its a lie but dont have any evidence to prove its a lie? The earth is 4.5 billion years old its not 6000 years old. There are trees that are over 9000 years old so that proves the bible is false right there

          • Amy C.

            Okay, give me “evidence” that the big bang happened and the earth is 4.5 million years old. And how the Bible is false! It’s not a billion/million years old,the Bible is without error and trees aren’t that old.

          • Adam

            I already provided evidence in another comment. Watch the ken ham bill nye debate and youll have every question in this comment answered thoroughly

          • Amy C.

            I did watch the debate and I TOTALLY agree with Ken Ham!

          • Adam

            Ken ham said nothing to prove the bible is correct. He even disproved himself at points. His arguments were as weak as arguments get. He provided nothing logical. All he said was there is a book like 10 times and i wanted to jump through my tv and smack sense into him. All his arguments were logical fallacies. Circular reasoning, appeal to majority and appeal to authority and straw man arguments everywhere

          • Amy C.

            Same to Bill Nye!!

          • Adam

            Obviously you didnt actually watch the debate LOLOL

          • Amy C.

            How would you know? I did watch it!!!!!

          • Amy C.

            What did Bill Nye prove that the Bible isn’t correct which it is!!

          • Adam

            See the problem with humans is our need to know everything mystery is a real killer to some people. I would venture to say all religious people who freak out when challenged like you are afraid of not knowing. Science is humble we understand that we dont know everything and its the exciting possibility of discovery that fuels rational thinkers. Im not satisfied with god did it because theres no solid evidence to believe that

          • Amy C.

            You guys reject the Bible and Creation not because of “science” but because of sin.

          • Adam

            Sin doesnt exist. People exist. I reject the bible and creation because the bible is rife with scientific inaccuracy and im sorry but whens the last time anyone saw a talking snake or donkey? Also the bible got wrong how animals got their stripes and spots by saying that they mated looking at trees with different patterns on them. Thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard aside from noahs ark. That story is insanity

          • Amy C.

            So you believe that you are “prefect”? Well Adam that’s not true, sin does exist! The Flood really happened and it wasn’t a local flood but a global flood! Its insane on what you guys “believe”.

          • Adam

            I never claimed to be perfect i simply said sin is a goofy made up idea. And no a global flood did not happen. I could accept a local flood because theres evidence of that but a global flood is nonsense. If there was a global flood then all of the plants and vegetation on earth wouldve died off. And what about other peoples boats? Did their boats just stop working?

          • Amy C.

            Sin is not simply made up a goofy idea and there was to a global flood. God created more plants and the Bible doesn’t tell us about boats and really plants.

          • Adam

            So why isnt sin a goofy made up idea? I dont believe in it. Prove to me sin exists? And now youre just making stuff up lololol

          • Amy C.

            6/24 hour days!

        • Adam

          There is no reason to believe god created the universe whatsoever. What you continue to keep doing is using the god of the gaps fallacy since you dont know how we got here you just look around and say god mustve done it. This is an established logical fallacy that you keep repeating and it isnt helping your plea at all. It is you who does not get it. Your arguments are rife with logical fallacies from god of the gaps to straw man fallacies. You misrepresent the positions of accurate scientific theories and then attack them by using misinformation to assert your false point.

          • Amy C.

            Yes there is a reason to believe God did create and it did not happen by chance just as there’s no such thing as luck! I get it completely! No my arguments are that way at all!!!

          • Adam

            What is your reason for believing in god? Because the bible is not a valid reason. Neither is just saying look outside. But i agree that luck doesnt exist. Only probabilities exist the probability that something will happen is what governs actions in quantum mechanics.

          • Amy C.

            Creation……It didn’t happen by chance or a insane view of a “BIG BANG THEORY”………..The way I act, I know that God is existing because he’s living in me and changing me to be the person he wants me to be.

          • Adam

            Why capitalize big bang theory? Do you not know what a scientific theory is? Scientific theories are facts. You sound delusional. Religion is just an accepted form of mental insanity because its widely accepted

          • Amy C.

            Nope incorrect!!

          • Adam
          • Amy C.

            bahahahahaa

          • Adam

            Am i finally getting through to you??? Are you laughing at how deluded you sound? See evolution is a fact its tested and proven. Its as much a fact as gravity and i dont see you floating away. Gravity is a fact. Also evolution is better understood than the theory of gravity. Scientific theories are well thought out ideas based on confirmed observations =facts. If youre about to tell me you dont believe in gravity then i have lost all hope for you and im sorry but youll never become a functioning human being.

          • Amy C.

            Nope! Holding fast to what I believe!! Of course, I believe in gravity!

          • Adam

            Holding fast to what you believe without sufficient reason to believe it is exactly the issue. You should take a philosophy course in college

          • Danny

            Evidence that prove to the contrary of what you believe in, often strengthens your initial beliefs. You’ll never get through to her, mate. She’s trying to prove the infallibility of the Bible by using Bible quotes. You can lead a horse to water.

          • Adam

            Very true lol some people just cant be reached

        • Melli P.

          honey, YOU don’t get it CLEARLY

          • Amy C.

            No, I get it!!

      • Melli P.

        you are awesome. thank you. however I think she is severely mentally unstable and not worth it. she can’t understand because she doesn’t want to she is happy in ignorance. have an interesting link for you also

        • Adam

          Lol thank you haha its good to know theres other sensible people out there haha. Whats the link?

        • Amy C.

          I am not mentally unstable!

    • Giuliano Taverna

      Your god is a lie, and the outrages committed against my fellow secularists in its name will be avenged. You better hope you get better treatment from us than we have from you because we are only growing in number.

      As soon as you lose the right to brainwash children, you will lose everything. Worship your hateful god, soon you will have very few people with which to share your delusions.

      • Amy C.

        No, he isn’t a lie and what I believe is true because the Lord of Heaven and Earth has revealed it to me! My Savior of my life is not hateful! The friends I have believe the same thing I do! You can scoff and let me tell you there is no cure and you can reject the absolute truth and spend eternity in hell which is not a pleasant place.

        • Adam

          Firstly god hasnt revealed himself to you. An old book written by bronze age people with no understanding of the universe claimed god exists and created a religion. Not a new religion and not even an original one its copied many ideas from much older religions. Also youve never been to hell you have no idea whether it is unpleasant or not. It could be nicer than heaven because youve never been to heaven either so you wouldnt know.

          • Amy C.

            I do know God because he has revealed himself to me and even though the Bible was written long time ago(not a million)…..We didn’t create a religion and its more about a personal relationship with God then religion. No I haven’t been to hell you are so correct and I do know what its like because of the Bible. I know Heaven is pleasant.

          • Adam

            I never said the bible was written a million years ago lol christianity is a relatively new religion and is in no way original. Theres Egyptian myths in which a god born of a virgin was killed and resurrected and same with mithras and many others. And if you havent been to hell or heaven you cant know anything about it. You can believe but you cant know.

          • Amy C.

            Okay prove it. :)

          • Adam

            Just google search mithras, or the egyptian god horus which predates jesus by thousands of years. Same with the flood myths theres tons of flood myths in lots of stories older than the bibles. The epic of gilgamesh os one example. And again you are comitting a logical fallacy called switching the burden of proof. I have supplied many examples and yet you ask me for more evidence while you assert your claims yet provide no solid evidence. You simply assert your authority because of a flawed book. Prove to me why god exists. Thats is your burden not mine to disprove .

          • Amy C.

            bahahaha

          • Adam

            So its safe to assume that whenever you write bahahaha that i have thoroughly stumped you and you have nothing at all to come back with.

          • Amy C.

            No, its just funny and sad that you guys really believe what you believe!

          • Adam

            We actually dont believe anything. We know because weve seen with our eyes. We arent going off faith.

            Its extremely sad to see what you believe in so dearly and you dont even know why you believe it.

          • Amy C.

            That’s not true….I do know why I believe and why I believe it! I’m living by faith!!

          • Adam

            Thats really sad. The hardest part is denial. Once you get past denial it only gets easier

          • Amy C.

            Living by faith isn’t sad!! What I believe is true and really the only religion in this world no matter what you may argue.

          • Adam

            Yeah it is sad. I live my life knowing im a good person who isnt broken amd useless without a made up god. I live every day feeling fulfilled by mew knowledge and live every day trying to think up ways to further the future of human kind. That is being a good person not going out and preaching religion. And creationism is not the only religion and certainly not true. Islam is a religion as is hinduism and theres thousands of others that claim to have the only truth

          • Amy C.

            No, its not sad…What is sad is ALL of YOU guys!!! You are SO SINFUL as I am but with God’s grace in my life he is changing me to be the person he wants me to be! Christianity is not just a religion its about a relationship with Christ!

          • Adam

            Its very sad id hate to go around every day thinking i was made to be punished by god every day. To think im worthless without some divine made up being. Its so liberating and freeing being atheist im happier than ever. I was a christian for 17 years until i learned how to think critically and learned that doubting and asking questions was fine.
            Your thinking shows a profound lack of critical thinking and reasoning ability. I pity you because you have been so mentally abused and mistreated im sorry you think the way you do.

          • Amy C.

            You aren’t worthless Adam!!! There is a God out there and he cares so much for you! He is sad that you don’t believe that he exists! Yes, questions are fine. You don’t have to pity me because what I’ve been taught and what I’ve learned is so true!

          • Adam

            Oh im well aware im not worthless lol but christianity teaches people are worthless sinners without jesus. Thats simply not true. God doesnt get sad lol if he did he wouldnt be mass murdering millions of innocent people. Im sorry youve been so blinded by faith

  • Amy C.

    That’s what we will be doing in heaven!! How did I avoid your question?

    • Kelly A

      so you will “worship” like on your hands and knees? and “sing”. don’t you think that will get old after a few hundred years? oh yeah that’s right you have no concept of time!

      • Amy C.

        When we die we will have a new body and we will not age and yes we do have a concept of time we just know and believe in a million years because its absolutely impossible!

        • Adam

          How is a million years impossible? If you add 1 +1+ …. Etc you will eventually reach a million. Itll take less than a million years even if youre adding constantly instead of once every year

          • Amy C.

            There’s no way the earth is a million years old. I’m correct with my belief and you aren’t. I’m being gentle when I say that.

          • Melli P.

            you are severely childish and I pity you because I know why. this whole convo you have not produced a valid piece of evidence. however Adam has… numerous times. cut the childish arrogant words. you have no proof and are ignorant to what has really been revealed to you with facts that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt and you have nothing. grow up, you cant just cover your ears blowing a raspberry. actually you can and you are. this makes you look very childish. hoe does it feel to be REJECTED Amy?

          • Amy C.

            How am I childish? Don’t pity me, I am telling the truth and what you guys believe is dumb….Wait and see when you die…You will wish you would’ve listened!! I may be rejected by you guys but not by God!! I have proof you just harass and reject and surpass the truth.

          • Melli P.

            so the link that I was going to send is a dark matter 2525 video it shows why Christians act like this loon here. it is called “the real god: an epiphany I believe but most of his videos are awesome most funny but this one offers a very valid reason why they act this way I have been trying to get the link but youtube is blocked at my school however I know it is a wonderful video, kinda long but worth it. even silly little amy here should watch it. she is incredibly in denial.

          • Adam

            Im being gentle when im saying that you are seriously dangerously indoctrinated. You are ignorant to the world around you because you live in a fairy tale book. The bible was written in the bronze age by people who werent scientists. The bible is not a valid source of information

      • Amy C.

        Yes, I assume we will worship on our knees because the Lord Jesus Christ is worthy to receive honor and glory and praise!

  • Matt

    Very sad news for this story. Kalei Wilson received too many threats from aggressors. She halted her efforts in the interest of safety for her family. She has returned the money from donors. See the update at her GoFundMe page:
    http://www.gofundme.com/6y05i8

  • Amy C.

    There is no such thing as an Atheist and the Bible is without error and the world is NOT A “BILLION/MILLION” years old.

    • Melli P.

      uh because your little book says there is no such thing as an atheist doesn’t mean there aren’t any. I for one am proof of one. the bible has MANY contradictions if you would like my proof of that I will GLADLY provide it. Proove yours too. I am curious as to why you are so seriously miss informed…

      • Amy C.

        I’m positive because God has revealed himself to me!

    • Melli P.

      you sound seriously mentally impaired please consider a mental evaluation.

      • Amy C.

        I’m not!!

        • Danny

          Your answers are adorable and they remind me to of a little child trying to argue with her friend. ‘Am not! Are too!’

          • Amy C.

            Thanks, I think but I’m 19!

          • Danny

            I know, I read your comment. I’m 19 too so I know that we can behave childishly.

          • Amy C.

            Okay I will have to agree with you on that but pretty much I act like I’m a young adult!!

    • Adam

      Lol i am an atheist. I exist because i think thats a little descartes for you. The bible has plenty of errors. If im atheist and i exist then youre wrong. I dont believe in god

      • Amy C.

        You “call yourselves” atheist because you “claim you don’t believe that there is a God” but there is a God and you don’t want to admit it.

        • Adam

          If god came down from the sky and said i am the god of christianity and did some miraculous things i would be like alright so god exists. But until that happens theres no reason to believe god exists because nobodys actually seen him. Its like bloody mary or the boogie man or zeus. Just stories nothing more

          • Amy C.

            So you need to see by your eyes to believe! Its Faith in what we can’t see.

          • Adam

            Faith is by definition useless. Its blind faith. I could tell you that every night i fly to neptune and dance with leprechauns and fly back before morning. You cant say i dont because youve never not seen me do that. Theres just as much evidence that i do that as there is for the existence of god. And both are non falsifiable hypotheses so you can never prove me incorrect. Same with any religious idea.

          • Amy C.

            hahaha

          • Adam

            Can you prove that i dont fly to neptune and dance with leprechauns every night?

          • Amy C.

            Its logic!!

          • Adam

            You cant prove i dont do that every night. Just like i cant prove god doesnt exist. But like i said i was using this to point out logical fallacies. This is switching the burden of proof. Id have to prove my claim to you not the other way around just like you would have to prove to me god exists not the other way around

            My favorite quote by epicurus goes like this
            “Is god willing to prevent evil but not able, then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing , then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing, then whence cometh evil. Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him god.”

          • Amy C.

            okay….Why say there isn’t a God?

          • Adam

            Because nobody has ever seen god. Nobody has ever seen heaven or hell. There have been about 2800 gods in the entirety of human existence through different religions. You dont believe in 2799 gods and i simply dont believe in 1 more than you. You are almost just as much an atheist as i am. Theres no reason to think god is there if i cant touch taste see or detect him in any way. Its the same as the boogie monster.

            Why say there is a god? Use reasons other than the bible and personal stories because neither of those things constitute as evidence or reasons to believe god exists.

          • Amy C.

            There is a God and he is the one true God of the universe!!

          • Amy C.

            Why do you doubt me and what I believe?

          • Adam

            I see you never responded to my request foe you to look up the three bible verses showing how there is direct contradiction between the ten commandments. Also if god is supposed to be all loving and all forgiving he will not send me to hell for not believing in him because he forgives all so i dont need to worry about anything. But seeing as god sends people to hell according to you he isnt all forgiving . Another contradiction. And if god is all loving and says killing is wrong then why has god massacred millions. Another contradiction.

          • Amy C.

            It’s not useless!!!!

          • Adam

            Yes it is. You have to take what i say by faith. And because its by faith you cant prove i dont fly to neptune and because its by faith i dont have to provide any real evidence which is exactly what youve done this entire conversation. That and answering me like a 5 year old child with all your am not are too’s

    • Kruegerman

      Shut up, moron. There is no god. Everybody is born an atheist. Just because you had the misfortune of being born into a retarded family doesn’t mean only people like you exist in this world.

      • Amy C.

        I’m not a moron and I beg your pardon, you will not talk to me like that. There is to a God and not everyone is born an atheist and I am blessed in what family I am in and they are not retarded. I know we are not the only people.

        • Adam

          Nobody is born believing in any gods. You are taught that by family and church people or other outside influences. Hence born an atheist

          • Amy C.

            True but we are born in sin and the people around me shared the truth to me. I’m not an atheist and don’t plan to be one because there is no such thing.

          • Adam

            We are not born in sin you are just taught that. It isnt true. Theres no reason to believe we are born sinful. A baby that has done nothing is not sinful. Sin doesnt exist. Im an atheist and i exist so you can keep saying they dont exist all you want but you just sound stupid.

          • Amy C.

            We aren’t perfect,we are sinful! I know you exist but there is no such thing as a person is an atheist.

          • Adam

            I never said people are perfect but sin is a goofy concept and original sin is a concept that was invented by the church to get more money from its increasing amount of followers.

            The fact that i exist and dont believe in god proves you wrong about atheists not existing. Like i said youre almost as much an atheist as i am since you dont believe in 2799 gods and i dont believe in 2800

          • Amy C.

            Look buddy you are so off and its sad…Sin is not a goof concept and it was not invented(Genesis 3). There aren’t 2,799 or 2,800 “gods”….There is ONLY ONE GOD and he is really real!!

          • Adam

            Original sin is a goofy made up concept totally different from the sin the bible talks about. Again quoting the bible proves nothing. And in the history of written human language each culture has its own stories and myths about gods and there have been about 2800 up to present including christians god. The same reason you so easily dismiss all other cultures gods as false is the same reason i can so easily dismiss your god as false. Its just stories there have never been any supernatural gods. They didnt exist in any other cultures religions and they dont exist in yours.

          • Amy C.

            All “cultural gods” are a lie!!! There is one true God!!! And like I keep saying sin is true and isn’t made up nor is it goofy!!

          • Adam

            Why are all other cultural gods a lie? They are much older than your god. By thousands of years. So why are they a lie? How do you know your god is more correct than others gods?

          • Amy C.

            Because they are!

          • Adam

            But you have no reason? If you only say because they are i could just as easily say they all exist. I dont need a reason to say that because you arent giving any reason to justify your answer

          • Amy C.

            How do you know the “false gods” exists? They are man created ideas and idols and therefore they do not exist! They are like toy objects…They aren’t real!!!

          • Adam

            How do you know they dont exist? All gods are ideas and myths created by superstituous humans in order to answer questions they cant answer or dont care to look for.

          • Amy C.

            Because I know the truth and all you guys reject it!!

          • Amy C.

            When it comes to the possibility of God’s existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, “You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you.”2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God’s existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider…

            1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

            Many examples showing God’s design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

            The Earth…its size is perfect. The Earth’s size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth’s surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

            The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth’s position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

            And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

            Water…colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You’ll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

            It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

            Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

            Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

            Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

            Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

            Ninety-seven percent of the Earth’s water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

            The human brain…simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

            The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

            The eye…can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages — simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain — the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

            2. Does God exist? The universe had a start – what caused it?

            Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

            Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, “The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion…The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen.”9

            Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, “the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade…and the universe was filled with light.”10

            The universe has not always existed. It had a start…what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

            3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

            Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn’t change — on earth or in galaxies far from us.

            How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

            “The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn’t have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence.”11

            Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, “Why nature is mathematical is a mystery…The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle.”12

            4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell’s behavior.

            All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It’s made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

            Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

            Why is this so amazing? One has to ask….how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person’s body should develop.

            Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

            5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

            I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don’t believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people…to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

            I didn’t realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn’t escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God’s existence, my prayer began with, “Ok, you win…” It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

            I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, “I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued.” C.S. Lewis said he remembered, “…night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England.”

            Lewis went on to write a book titled, “Surprised by Joy” as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God’s existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

            6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

            Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you’ll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you’re looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

            He said, “I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, “follow my words and you will find truth.” He said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me.”15

            What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can’t do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people…blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects…created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature…walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I’m telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you’re seeing.16

            Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

            Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus’ death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, “I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you.”17 This is God, in action.

            Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We’re told that “God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”18

            God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth’s perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

            If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

            This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, “Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her].”19 If you want to do this, but aren’t sure how to put it into words, this may help: “Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen.”

            God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, “I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.”20

            Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.

          • Guest

            What do you have to say now?

          • Amy C.

            Okay, spend eternity in hell all of you!

          • http://aidevelopment.org/ Cato

            Well, a condemnation to eternal hell seems like a good enough spot to jump in. Amy, let me introduce myself, and my opinion, since you have decided to follow me. It is interesting that you deny the existence of atheists; you shouldn’t worry about them. You should worry about anti-theists, like me. People, like me, who used to be exactly like you. We have first hand experience of a “relationship with christ” like you do, but we were able to get away from the abusive relationships in our lives, and we realize that we were one of the many countless victims of Stockholm Syndrome, shared delusions, hallucinations, and severe brainwashing, among other things. Your pathetic displays only serve to encourage us to help save people like you. You’re right that we all need to be saved, you’re just a bit off about what we need to be saved from. I’m labelled an anti-theist, but it is such a broad term though. Since you only believe in one god, and we can agree an acceptable label for him is christ, why don’t you just go ahead and call me anti-christ? Thanks for following me, but we’re not going to heaven.

          • Amy C.

            Why should I call you the Anti-Christ?! How am I off? How do you know we aren’t going to heaven? What are we saved from?

          • Amy C.

            That the Bible is without error!!!

          • Adam

            First off stop quoting the bible. It isnt reliable and i dont give any thought to anything it says because it isnt useful. So quote it all you want it doesnt prove anything. 1 the earth isnt perfect. It varies in sizes with mountainous terrain. 2 the earths distance from the sun fluctuates by a few million miles every time it orbits the sun. I really dont have time to go through all your examples which are all natural processes that occur everywhere in the universe. Also the technical knowledge that you just commented was obviously copy and pasted from some creationist website because half the stuff you said before contradicts what you just copy and pasted. Please your ignorance is ridiculous. No natural processes ever point to any cause but natural

          • Amy C.

            You are the one who is ignorant!! The Bible is reliable and without error!

          • Adam

            Im sorry but youre just wrong. It isnt without error. In fact one major example is the different versions of the ten commandments. Theres one set in deuteronomy 5:6-21 and one similar set in exodus 20:2-17 and then another completely different set in exodus 34:12-26. If the bible was without error these verses wouldnt contradict each other.

          • Amy C.

            You’re making that up and its without error!!

          • Adam

            No im not making that up. Go look up those verses and tell me what they say because i already know. Those three different sections contradict each other. Thus proving the bible fallible. Look up the verses. I bet you wont.

          • Amy C.

            They do not contradict.

          • Adam

            Do the verses contain different ten commandments or not? Answer me with yes or no.

          • Amy C.

            No they aren’t different they are the same!!!

          • Adam

            Something perfect should be without flaw and without contradiction by definition. These verses contradict each other. Therefore it is impossible for the bible to be perfect. God contradicts himself all the time claiming to be all loving and all forgiving yet killing millions and sending people to hell. Therefore god is imperfect and since god is imperfect why bother calling him god at all.

          • Amy C.

            One of the most important questions asked by non-Christians as they look into Christianity is whether or not the Bible is trustworthy. Can the Bible be trusted? If it has been corrupted, then we cannot trust what is attributed to Jesus’ words and deeds. So, is the Bible reliable or not?

            Yes, the Bible is reliable. The original writings of the Bible have been lost. But before they were lost, they were copied. These copies were incredibly accurate, very meticulous, and very precise. The people who copied them were extremely dedicated to God and their copying tasks. They took great care when copying the original manuscripts. This copying method is so exact, and so precise, that the New Testament alone is considered to be 99.5% textually pure. This means that of the 6000 Greek copies (the New Testament was written in Greek), and the additional 21,000 copies in other languages, there is only one half of 1% variation. Of this very slight number, the great majority of the variants are easily corrected by comparing them to other copies that don’t have the “typos” or by simply reading the context. You should know that copying mistakes occur in such ways as word repetition, spelling, or a single word omission due to the copyist missing something when moving his eyes from one line to another. The variants are very minor. Nothing affects doctrinal truth and the words and deeds of Christ are superbly reliably transmitted to us.

            The science of studying ancient literature and its accuracy of transmission to is called historicity. The Bible is so exceedingly accurate in its transmission from the originals to the present copies, that if you compare it to any other ancient writing, the Bible is light years ahead in terms of number of manuscripts and accuracy. If the Bible were to be discredited as being unreliable, then it would be necessary to discard the writings of Homer, Plato, and Aristotle as also unreliable since they are far far less well preserved than the Bible.

            The Bible was written by those who were inspired by God, so it is accurate and true, and represents historical occurrences. When we look at the New Testament we realize that it was written by those who either knew Jesus personally, or were under the direction of those who did. They wrote what they saw. They wrote about the resurrection of Christ. They recorded His miracles and His sayings. It comes down to whether or not you believe what it says about Christ.

          • Adam

            This means absolutely nothing. Anyone can copy down stories with accuracy over multiple generations. It happens all the time otherwise we wouldnt have such wonderful stories such as ovids metamorphosis, or illiad and the odyssey or any number of old stories and most of them being older than the bible and with leas deviation. So everything you keep copy and pasting from the internet literally proves nothing other than people know how to copy down words over generations. Please gtfo lol you havent produced anything of substance

          • Amy C.

            Hahahaha…………What I believe is true!!!!!

          • Adam

            Lolololol you keep saying that and it just sounds dumber and dumber each time

          • Amy C.

            Believing that God doesn’t exist is dumb and believing in the big bang theory is also dumb!!

          • Adam

            Haha you are so small minded so unbeliveably foolishly gullible. Its pitiful truly

          • Amy C.

            HAHA………..HOW AM I “SMALL MINDED” and what you all believe is sad and pitiful!!!!

          • Adam

            You are seriously delusional. You are closeminded. You arent open to the more plausible possibility that gods do not exist. We are our own gods. Humans make up gods. You are foolish. Because you cannot clearly see

          • Amy C.

            Laugh all you want!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It wont change the truth that I believe!!

          • Adam

            Believe it and yell all you want it doesnt make what you believe true

          • Amy C.

            Yes it does!! It totally makes sense then what you guys “believe”!!!!

          • Adam

            It literally doesnt make any sense. We dont believe anything we knkw because we can observe . Just cause you keep yelling your views are correct does not make them correct. In fact it just shows that you are so insecure about your beliefs that you cant take criticism.

          • Amy C.

            I can take criticism and who says I was/am yelling?

          • Adam

            You obviously cant take criticism because you keep giving childish answers and putting like 10 exclamation marks after your statements. That just gives the impression that you are a small child trying to win an argument by saying things louder. Even when what youre saying makes no physical sense.

          • Amy C.

            I will NOT stop quoting the Bible because its 100% and its reliable and its useful!!

          • Adam

            If you cant find material outside of the bible to prove your points then you will never convince any rational person of your views because saying something in the bible is true because the bible says so is the fallacy of circular reasoning. Ive pointed this out before

          • Amy C.

            The Bible and Creation and what God has revealed to me is exactly what it accurate to use! I stand(not literally) on the word of God alone!!!!!!

          • Adam

            I bet you still havent looked up those bible verses have you? Lolol

          • Amy C.

            Actually I have and the Bible is accurate and what I am saying is true!!!

          • Adam

            If youve looked at all the verses i mentioned then you have to accept that they all give different accounts of the ten commandments. Thus a contradiction. You havent said anything true. Youve foolishly devoted yourself to a folly. A myth. Smoke and mirrors

          • Amy C.

            Actually I have said what is true…Either you believe it or not is your problem and someday you are going to regret it!!! You are just mocking me and thinking I’m dumb which I am not!!!

          • Adam

            I think you are a feeble minded sheep incapable of rational logical original thought.
            Your opinion that i will regret it one day is simply that. I have no reason to believe i will regret it. I do not think i will.

            Do the verses contain different ten commandments or do they not? Answer my question.

          • Amy C.

            Yes, they do contain the ten commandments!

          • Adam

            No . Are the ten commandments stated in those verses different from each other or not.

          • Amy C.

            Yes.

          • Adam

            What is the definition of a contradiction.

          • Amy C.

            To go against and something illogical

          • Adam

            To say something is one thing then go and say its a different thing or to say one thing then go and do something that goes against what you just said is a contradiction. That is all god and the bible is.

          • Roipoisson

            You are the essence of fanaticism.

          • Roipoisson

            The Bible is a work a fiction. Jesus probably existed and was a great man, like Ghandi or Mother Teresa. He was not God.

          • Amy C.

            Sir in all respect I am older than you and I know the truth that you guys surpass!!!!!!!!!

          • Darkness

            I’m pretty sure you should quit quoting the Bible. You say it’s 100% reliable and useful, yet you’re ignoring the fact that it is editted over and over countless times. You say this “God” is kind and all,then explain the mass genocide of people in the first few books of the bible. The only thing i agree about with your statement is “its useful”, because yes, it is useful, that is useful in promoting hatred, persecution, and discrimination. I am now going to quote Thomas Paine, “All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.” And as Charlie Ammen said, The Bible is a work of fiction. Therefore use your common sense instead of blindly believing in an unreliable source editted countless times over. Also, have fun saying “Go To Hell”, because frankly i don’t care. This belief in heaven or hell is for the cowardly who fear what happens after death. Have fun in your little fairy tale.

          • Amy C.

            Atheism is a fairy tale and you guys beliefs are also!!!!!!! I’m the one correct here and you sadly aren’t!!!

          • Guest

            I”VE NEVER BEEN AN ATHEIST!!

          • Amy C.

            Neither have I!!

          • Amy C.

            Okay!

          • Amy C.

            It is as real as the nose on my face!!

    • Roipoisson

      So, you deny science and history.

      • Amy C.

        No, I have a Biblical Perspective on Science and History!!

  • Amy C.

    One day all of you and all of us who believe the truth will stand before a Holy and Perfect God who made the heavens and the earth by just speaking…You guys will die even though you deny it there is a heaven and hell….You will stand and you will be judged and you will think why didn’t I listen or you will tell God…Well God I didn’t know about you! There will be no excuse!! You don’t have guarantee that you will be alive tomorrow!! You could die right now and spend eternity in hell! And its not going to be fun! And some questions we believers can’t answer because we simply don’t know!

  • Margaret Warren

    Matthew 7:12

    English Standard Version (ESV)

    The Golden Rule

    12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. I am a catholic and believe in living my life this way.

    I am sorry that Kalei and her family were threatened to the point of opting out.

    • Guest

      How were they threatened?

      • Adam

        The article states she received death threats. Thats how she was threatened.

        • Amy C.

          oh…Well its like persecuting Christians!!

          • Adam

            Christians and muslims are the whiniest group of religious people. Nobody persecutes them. We critique their ideas because their so called laws promote hate and inequality. Then religious fanatics get in everyones face trying to convert everyone and the second someone says something mean they whine and cry and bitch about being persecuted. Shut up about that already.

          • Amy C.

            John Wycliffe for an example he was burned at the stake because of his Faith and Beliefs!! Yes, you and other people persecute us!! When you do that you murder and murdering is WRONG and you guys will get the consequences for your actions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I will NOT SHUT UP!!!!!!!

          • Adam

            John wycliffe was killed by the catholic church for going against their views he wasnt persecuted by atheists. So turns out the people who persecute the most are actually christians. Because christians and their superstition led to the burning of many innocent women in salem and also many religious wars and crusades. Nobody murders you people by criticisng your beliefs. We just think your ideas are stupid and illogical because they dont follow rational thinking. So dont start claiming innocence because christians persecute the most out of any group.

          • Amy C.

            Prove it to me!

          • Adam

            http://www.wycliffe.org/About/OurHistory/JohnWycliffe.aspx

            You should research things before you just go around saying stupid stuff.

          • Amy C.

            I do research stuff you don’t have to mock me!!

          • Adam

            Its quite obvious you dont research or you wouldnt have said that incredibly ignorant statement above about john wycliffe. Im not mocking you im simply telling you that these things you say are incredibly ill thought out and borderline mentally challenged. Although entirely delusional.

          • Amy C.

            Bahahahahahahaha wow Adam!!!!

          • Adam

            Wow indeed im incredibly well thought out arent i? Wow is right thank you i do think im quite wonderful! Thank you

          • Amy C.

            I was actually being sarcastic!!

          • Adam

            Obviously. What was there even to be sarcastic about? Are you being sarcastic this whole time with your goofy religious beliefs? Is this whole thing a joke cause if so you really know how to keep a joke running

          • Amy C.

            Haha no………….I was dead serious and I believe what I believe because God has revealed it to me and because the world around me!!!

          • Adam

            You are seriously committed to your joke arent you lol

          • Amy C.

            ITS NO JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are seriously committed to your incorrect beliefs…..

          • Adam

            Its totally a joke lololol

          • Amy C.

            Your beliefs are mine aren’t!!!

          • Adam

            Yeah your beliefs are totally a huge joke lol

          • Amy C.

            No, they are not a total joke!

          • Adam

            Literally all of them are a total complete joke

          • Amy C.

            Your’s is

          • Adam

            Sorry to disappoint you but your life is based on a myth. Its all one big joke

          • Amy C.

            You didn’t disappoint me because what I believe is actually true no matter what you say!

          • Adam

            But what if you could be proven wrong beyond all doubt there was evidence so firm that there was 0% of error. Would you change your views?

          • Amy C.

            Nope!

          • Adam

            See that is an example of delusional. You are whats wrong with the world. If someone proved to me beyond all doubt god existed then i would believe it but since nobody has theres no reason to. Ive just no hope for you to ever function properly. Good bye

          • Amy C.

            You’re rejecting the truth

          • Adam

            Nothing is true, everything is permitted.

            You are being an arrogant gullible fool

          • Amy C.

            Somethings are true and I’m not being arrogant.

          • Adam

            They have eyes but they do not see. Lol yeah actually youre being the epitome of arrogance.

          • Adam

            Obviously you dont research things before you say them or you wouldnt have made that incredibly ignorant statement about john wycliffe. Im not mocking you im simply telling you that the things you say are ill thought out and not logical and are borderline mentally challenged although entirely delusional. You argue like a little child and that is not a compliment.

          • Roipoisson

            The Crusades. The Spanish Inquisition.

          • Adam

            Also if murder is wrong why does god so whimsically mass murder millions of people in the old testament. God has murdered more than satan according to that story

    • StopTheUSbecomingThirdWorld

      According to the bible Which came first

      1 Trees

      2 Birds

      3 Man

      GE 1:11-12, 26-27
      Trees were created before man was created.

      GE 2:4-9 Man was
      created before trees were created.

      GE 1:20-21, 26-27
      Birds were created before man was created.

      GE 2:7, 19 Man was
      created before birds were created.

      GE 1:24-27 Animals were created before man was created.

      GE 2:7, 19 Man was created before animals were created.

      GE 1:26-27 Man and woman were created at the same time.

  • Guest

    Give me evidence that “there are gods” and that I’m “ignorant”. And God doesn’t exist.

    • Guest

      What are your views if you are not an “atheist”?