Ugandan Minister for Ethics & Integrity says men raping girls is natural

The Right Reverend Father Simon Lokodo, the current State Minister for Ethics & Integrity in Uganda, claims men raping girls is natural, and seems to imply heterosexual rape is morally preferable to consensual homosexual activity.

Father Lokodo claims to have several degrees in theology, and apparently considers himself to be a good Christian man defending his country from the imaginary scourge of homosexuality.

Lokodo made his abhorrent remarks while speaking to English comedian, actor, writer, presenter, and activist, Stephen Fry. The following is an excerpt from Fry recounting his conversation with Lokodo:

I actually got a Ugandan Minister to say on camera- he’s the Minister for Ethics and Integrity, it’s the only such ministry in the world. I said to him… there’s so much more to worry about in your country than the odd gay person going to bed with the other gay person. For example, you have almost an epidemic of child rape in this country, which is just frightening.

And he said “Ah, but it is the right kind of child rape.”

I said “That was on camera. Do you know that was on camera?”

He said “Yes.”

I said “Can you just explain what you meant?”

“Well, it is men raping girls. Which is natural.”

Lokodo recently spoke to CNN about a draconian anti-gay bill passed by the Ugandan parliament in December that would punish gay and lesbian people with lengthy prison sentences – including, in some cases, life behind bars.

Lokodo said Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni has signed the harsh anti-gay bill into law, but has not yet handed it over to parliament.

Earlier this week President Obama issued a statement saying that he is “deeply disappointed” by the decision, and noting that “enacting this legislation will complicate our valued relationship with Uganda.”

The irrational homophobia of Lokodo and other Ugandans can be directly traced back to the influence of Christian missionaries infecting generations of Ugandans with the  most obnoxious and despicable religious bigotry, hatred and misinformation.

To think that an otherwise rational human being would imply that heterosexual rape is morally superior to consensual gay sex demonstrates the toxic nature of religious fundamentalism, and the subtle yet profound moral and intellectual evil perpetrated by generations of Christian missionaries in Africa, and elsewhere.

 
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  • http://www.smoothsailingmusic.com/ | Smooth Sailing |

    This doesn’t even seem real, thats how fucked it is

    • Timothy Burke Lines

      the largest jim crow network of churches,the assemblies of god,based in a bible belt state.

  • calesuar

    Christian Morality swings wildly from Old Testament to the New like a ping pong ball, and it heavily depends on which country they happen to reside, or are allowed to do so. It’s despicable. Its source, is simply the way in which these folks form their beliefs, FAITH, a flawed, immoral and irresponsible epistemology.

  • Timothy Burke Lines

    from the english print some 400 yrs.ago,the most evil book on earth.see on u tube,the orgines of war in child abuse.and,republican theocracy.

  • Timothy Burke Lines

    we live in the land of confusion

  • roooth

    It isn’t just the missionaries – American right wing politicians have been going to Africa and proselytizing their anti-gay bigotry as religion. We “helped” write some of the anti-gay laws there, as well as in Kenya, too. Kenya has burned some suspected gay people alive – this is what letting right wingers have control leads to, they have to force their way on everyone, no matter what.

    • Bruce Douglas

      You just can’t let them take responsibility for their own decisions eh? Never mind that this is a country filled with adults who are just as capable of free will as any other. This is the fault of Republican mind control somehow.

      • GA Hopper III

        No, roooth raises a real point here. There are American fundamentalist groups that have been helping other countries with their horrible anti-gay legislation, including Russia. It’s not about some fanciful notion of Republican mind-control. This doesn’t absolve those legislators of responsibility, but I think Americans should know what kind of ideas these groups are trying to promote and pass into law abroad, especially since this kind of discriminatory and barbaric policy couldn’t pass in the US.

        Just do a search on American groups promoting anti-gay legislation and you will see what I’m talking about.

        • CriticalDragon1177

          I agree.

          Rightwing Watch and the Southern Poverty Law Center are also good places to start, if you want to research anti gay hate groups.

          http://www.rightwingwatch.org/

          http://www.splcenter.org/

        • Jenkem Huffington

          There is absolutely nothing holding you back from going to Africa to teach all these people that there is no God but man and that a man’s rectum is the same as a birth canal.

          Socialism really is the religion of victims.

      • Sapphire Possible

        You are correct. They do have free will to choose wisely, choose humanity over culture, and choose respect of self over outside influences.

        • Audrey Mbassa-Hepburn

          You Americans and that choice of word ” Free will ” I will just laugh at that and move on because I won’t even begin to get down with the basics at how strongly the west still strings in Africa, smh

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Hey, give the right-wing haters credit where credit is due. If they didn’t think spreading hatred of gays was worthwhile, they wouldn’t be doing it, would they?

    • Eo Patel

      Lie

    • sharongibson

      I remember reading an article in the NYTimes about evangelicals who were promoting draconian laws against gays in Africa. This is a shame.

  • Anne Wilson

    Just a few centuries ago Christian theologians thought that rape was preferable to masturbation. Some men think that their sperm is very sacred and that women are quite literally secondary to men. The co-mingling of sex, sexuality and religion has an endless potential for abuse.

    • Daniel Savio

      Yes, that is true. Unfortunately, we don’t have a few centuries to wait for Islam to join Christianity and Judaism in abandoning the worst of their bullshit.

      • Sapphire Possible

        This BS still exists and is condoned in Christianity and Judaism. Culture dictates everything.

    • Cathryn Sykes

      Actually, I think that the idea of masturbation being evil goes back a bit further to Judasim. Isn’t there a prohibition against “spilling one’s seed” out on the ground?

      • Nick Driver

        The reference to ‘spilling seed’ is in Genesis 38:9. And is actually nothing to do with masturbation. “But Onan was not willing to have a child who would not be his own heir.
        So whenever he had intercourse with his brother’s wife, he spilled the
        semen on the ground. This prevented her from having a child who would
        belong to his brother.”

        To put this verse in context, it was Hebrew tradition that if a man’s brother died, it was his responsibility to bare children through his brother’s wife. Onan’s ‘spillage’ was dishonorable because he was not holding to that tradition.

        • Cathryn Sykes

          I’m sure the woman appreciated the distinction between “honorably” spilling seed in her and “dishonorably” spilling it on the ground. Oh, wait, she really had no say in the matter, did she?

  • Ryan England

    Bloody barbarians.

  • Suren
  • Mohamed Othman

    Saudi Arabia has a similar ministry. Their job is to go around whipping women in the street. You can tell its a woman because of the black garbage bag! They literally treat them like trash.

    • CriticalDragon1177

      Not all Muslims support heinous human rights abuses like that, just as not all Christians support the anti gay laws in places like Uganda or Russia. I know that horrible stuff like that happens, but I wouldn’t go around blaming the evil that Christians do, on Christianity, including when Christians use Bible passages as a justification for them. There are multiple variants of Islam. Some very liberal and peaceful, and some very draconian, and violent. The same is true for all major world religions.

  • Chuckie Cruz

    i am inviting Uganda Minister to visit the Philippines. I will personally escort you to Bilibid and Iwahig so you would know the feeling of being raped. This time, on your turn, it will be barbaric prisoner.

  • Marcia Rodrigues

    a simio shows off greater understanding and compassion..

  • Sapphire Possible

    It is never “natural” to rape any child…and it’s an act of total loss of self-control and an extreme desire to demean others, to rape anyone. I can’t believe a “person of prominence” would say that it’s normal for a man to rape a little girl. Are there no standards of conduct placed on young men in his country, or it is ok to rape anyone for any reason?

    • Cathryn Sykes

      Oh, not anyone, Sapphire. Just females!!!!

  • Cathryn Sykes

    Wow. Not only sickeningly anti-gay, but just fine with raping little girls because it’s “natural.” Actually, in the natural world, rape is pretty damn rare. And rape of an immature female even more rare. I think that when we call a man who does this kind of thing an animal, we’re insulting both nature and animals.

    • Tsedek Ogun

      Yeah. Humans are animals.

    • Andrew Thompson

      Not really…..certain orangutans have a predisposition for rape….I know I’m being picky here, but that is who I am

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Well, you should have been a little more picky and noted that I said it was RARE, not that it never happened. I happen to know of a stallion who ripped the shoulder muscles off a young filly because she wouldn’t stand when he wanted to breed her. The owner kept him entire because he was a Paint who threw color. I’d have cut him so fast he wouldn’t have know what hit him. How incredibly STUPID to risk passing on that kind of viciousness!

        • Andrew Thompson

          oh yeh, sorry about that

          And yeh, I have to agree that an animal that predisposed towards aggresive sexaul behaviour should be dealt with

  • cyb pauli

    Ah the wheel of misogyny. Round and round it goes…

  • Winston Jen

    Someone should rape him with a 60-foot bus!

    • Audrey Mbassa-Hepburn

      Agreed Jen

  • Andrew Thompson

    big round of applause for humanity!!! “crickets chirping” anyone? no? Didn’t think so :/

  • lizbit

    It is normal in a lot of African black cultures, its a form of so called marriage proposal and a way for families to elicit money from each other. The same people that come from these cultures are now our Judges in court here in South Africa so rapists get away with it becasue they don’t really see anything wrong with it. Its absolutely sick and the woman and children of South Africa are suffering.

  • Max Freeman

    Why the fuck are we funnelling money to these assholes?

    • http://www.skaheru.wordpress.com/ Simon Kaheru

      You seriously need to stop “funnelling money” to Uganda, then. If it’s Aid you are talking about it doesn’t appear to have been successful anywhere yet in achieving ‘development’ so…

  • steerpike66

    Stephen, whom I trust, has said that this statement was made on camera. Please make sure that this televised statement is released. I don’t doubt Fry but the repugnant power of seeing such a man say such a thing would be enormous. I hope that whatever footage Fry was in Uganda to film is shortly released into the public domain.

    • CriticalDragon1177

      Good point. It could be used to rally more people opposed to human rights abuses In Uganda to rally more people to the cause?

  • steerpike66

    It is colonial religious proselytizing but it’s something else too.

    Africa holds as a social ideal two things which are, to borrow a Catholic term used about gays, ‘an intrinsic moral evil’ and deeply anti-democratic. They are linked.

    One is the belief that tribalism can be a foundation for a just society. It cannot. Tribalism is inherently violent, prejudiced and anti-democratic. You cannot be loyal to the ideals of a modern nation state and a tribe.

    Secondly is the near-worship of ‘big men’ or chiefs who are venerated and elected and kept in power for decades through sheer cults of personality, respected merely for their age, their tribe and their strength.

    The chief is always a despot, and he is always male, and women and girls always suffer under him. Under chiefs, disrespect for women, rape, violence, corruption, nepotism and sectarian hatred are all endemic.

    Even enlightened leaders like Mandela profited from the cult of personality that is the big man of Africa. And big men are far more likely to be Jammeh, Amin, Mugabe or Museveni than Mandela.

    • ddlee

      I tend to agree with your views re: tribalism and the god-like worship of tribal chiefs. I do feel, however, that the introduction of Christianity did nothing but bolster the pre-existing misogynistic views held by most tribes.

      Just one bad piled on top of another.

  • Sean O’neil

    HOW ABOUT STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THESE CULTURES. ITS NOT THE FAULT OF MISSIONARIES, ITS THE FAULT OF THEIR THINKING AND CULTURE. DO PEOPLE REALLY THINK BLACK AFRICANS DIDNT HAVE THIS MINDSET BEFORE THE MISSIONARIES ARRIVED.

    • ddlee

      No need to scream. You honestly believe Africans were Christian before the missionaries arrived? That was part of that Ugandan Ministers’ statement…that he was a good Christian followed by his belief that child rape was natural. Why would he mention Christianity unless it was to point out that he was following its’ tenets.

      Secondly is the fact that there hasn’t exactly been a glut of Christians publicly speaking out against homophobia has there? Most Christian’s that I have listened to support that ministers’ views that homosexuality is unnatural.

      Lastly…the bible happily condones rape, especially virgin rape..Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, etc

      Sorry but this minister appears to be following the word of that so-called good book…the Christian bible.

      • arcanacoelestia

        “Secondly is the fact that there hasn’t exactly been a glut of Christians publicly speaking out against homophobia has there? Most Christian’s that I have listened to support that ministers’ views that homosexuality is unnatural.”
        ddlee, have you been on Facebook anytime in the past few years? Have you noticed the plethora of Christian blogs, websites, FB pages with myriads of subscribers, that speak out adamantly and publicly against homophobia (and racism, and corporate greed, and Biblical literalism)? Some of the most avid supporters of LGBT rights, marriage equality, immigration reform, social justice, etc. are Christians who are sick of right-wing fundamentalists co-opting the term “Christian” to describe their own destructive agenda — especially when they export their hatred to other nations like Uganda. Please do some online research and you will see how many Christians share your views and speak out against atrocities like the legislation of hatred.

        • ddlee

          I visit Facebook, YT and other sites on an almost daily basis, and have for years.

          For every religious-focused site/article/blog/newscast I find (and I admit I have found a few) speaking out against homophobia I still find 10x claiming it’s unnatural, it’s a perversion, comparing homosexuals to pedophiles etc. and then claiming their homophobic views are supported by their religion.

          I will also state that the religious-backed homophobia I’ve seen is NOT limited to Christianity. I only mentioned that specific religion as it was the one the Ugandan minister purports to follow.

          • arcanacoelestia

            Yep, we’ve noticed it too, which is why there are more and more progressive Christian FB groups, websites, blogs, etc. being created. It isn’t that progressive Christians aren’t around — progressive Protestant magazines like Sojourners and demographic groups like Liberation-Theology-oriented Catholics have existed for many decades. It’s just that unlike the fundies, whose goal is to make everyone in the world believe as they do, we didn’t initially feel need to trumpet our Christianity all over the web. But with the increasing political presence (and web presence) of stridently aggressive fundies and dominionists, most progressive Christians are now speaking out proactively — both online and in public — against those who have replaced the Sermon on the Mount with their own gospel of greed and hate while claiming to speak for “all true Christians”. (And yes, you’re right that legislated homophobia isn’t limited to Christianity — militant Islamist fundies have done more than their share of damage as well.) Anyway…. peace.

          • ddlee

            Thank you. I always appreciate information and an honest exchange of ideas. Peace and happiness to you.

    • Audrey Mbassa-Hepburn

      Um well I won’t go into the Whole caps lock thing like you did, but I am pretty sure Africans didn’t have that mindset before the white missionaries, yes there are loads of fucking ignorants in my continent and we shouldn’t all blame this on the colons and the fucked missionaries with the bigot sick sick minds but they are partly the blame. Simple. Now this ” Minister ” of ethics is shameful and disgusting beyond repair, it’s almost like saying you can simply wash Aids with soap and water and it is not a deadly disease I.e South AFrican president.
      Bottom Line lets not make excuses for him but let’s not forget where it forged from, and that there are sick sick pedophiles all over the world and he may just be one them

      • Sean O’neil

        you really need to go check your history

        • Audrey Mbassa-Hepburn

          And you need to read my statement above again and clearly please. Glad to know that you know my history better than I do.

          • Sean O’neil

            i did and obviously I do.

          • Audrey Mbassa-Hepburn

            Well all good then

    • ThaGoddess9

      this isn’t about Africans. It’s about Ugandans

      • Sean O’neil

        and uganda is were ??? feel free to check a map if your confused

    • Smoooom

      Since every country that went into Africa in the first place assumed that the people living there were ignorant savages who needed to be taught how to be “European” and for the most part didn’t bother learning anything about the people they were subduing we don’t actually know much at all about how Africans lived before hand. This started in 1736 with England, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands. They just kind of divided the continent up with out regards to what divisions might already exist. It’s just one more example of “White” supposed superiority.

      • Sean O’neil

        more complete ignorance on part of the lets blame Europe for everything brigade. there is a wealth of written material on sub Saharan Africa including nubia, kush, akram and the eastern city states. Christianity by the way wasn’t introduced by Europeans but much earlier in the middle ages directly from the holy land in approx. 300 tu 650 ad as was islam later on.. the present north/south split of Africa between islam and Christianity generally begane in the 1400’s with the expansion of the note arab expansion into Africa and the subsequent expansion of mainly enlish /dutch control of the southern section. the French colonies basically left islam in place.
        were you get this date 1736 from is a MYSTERY, do you mean the dutch east india company carving out land in 1652, or maybe the portugese in the 1400’s in what is now Spanish ceuta, or indeed the romans and before them the greeks in north Africa.. the accepted colonial era of Africa is 1880 to1080. I assume by tour lack of knowledge that your a product of the us education system perhaps

        • Sean O’neil

          correction 1980 and englisg/dutch in the 19th century

  • Raychel Schwartz

    The assumption that it must have been christian missionaries who caused this hateful homophobia is yet another example of agency denied. Not everything that happens in Africa is a result of the white man. There is no denying the heavy influence that missionaries had in Africa and that it reverberates in society today but Africans are people in their own right, with a long and colorful history that is full of influences, many of which have nothing to do with Europeans. This is an oversimplification that denies African agency.

    • anthonyhogg

      Indeed, and I don’t recall anything in the NT saying it’s a-ok to rape young girls. But I wouldn’t pin it down on “African agency,” as the article concerns the views of one person – who clearly has a fucked-up sense of “ethics” and “morality.”

      • Caitlyn Bottoms

        Nothing in the NT or OT says it is okay to rape. So yes the minister is wrong. However, it does say in both the Old and New Testament that homosexuality is wrong. Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

        1Timothy 1:9-10 Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, MEN WHO PRACTICE HOMOSEXUALITY, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine.
        1 Corinthians 6:9-11 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

        • Blargh

          Literally there are instructions in the bible about how much a rapist must pay a girl’s father so that he could marry his victim. Sounds like the bible you’re reading has more pictures than words

        • BuiltLikeAGorillaInTheMist

          I’m not above quoting the Bible back at you Caitlyn:

          1 Tim 2:11-14
          “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”

        • ddlee

          Please re-read your bible. Homosexuality is only mentioned briefly in several of the over 31,000 verses. The fact that it is so rarely mentioned should indicate what little importance the authors placed on it.

          The bible places far more importance on Christians looking to their own behavior towards others e.g. Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her. — John 8: 7, Colossians 3:11-13, Matthew 23: 23-24, Matthew 7:1-2, Luke 6:41-42, etc.

          Unfortunately, for you, the bible actually does condone rape…many times: Judges 21:10-24, Numbers 31:7-18, Deuteronomy 20:10-14, 2 Samuel 12:11-14, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Judges 5:30, etc.

          Your are cherry picking the very very few bits that support your own bigotry and ignoring those parts that don’t.

          The bible condones various types of marriage…polygamy, marriage of the rape victim to her rapist, husbands being allowed both wives and concubines, forced marriage of widow to her brother-in-law (providing she hadn’t born any sons), husbands having sex with both wives and female slaves etc.

          The bible also provides guidelines for the treatment of ones’ slaves and describes the right of warriors to be given virgins to rape as part of their plunder.

          If you insist that those VERY FEW verses referring to homosexuality be taken literally then you are also agreeing that slavery be condoned and concubines be made available for those husbands that want them along with a myriad of other (by today’s standards) horrific practices.

        • Lord Xantosh

          ahh but you forgot, that the bible also teaches you to “Love Thy Neighbor” which in turn is meant to be read as be friendly and get along with anyone you meet regardless or race or belief, so therefore hating homosexual people is ignoring one of your teachings!

    • Gladelaide

      You’re right, it’s not due to missionaries. Rather its roots lie in the outlawing by the British colonial power of all forms of homosexuality (it was illegal too in Britain, even at the time of decolonisation). It’s interesting that fewer of the French or Belgian ex-colonies in Africa have that intransigeant attitude towards homosexuality, even though they were awash with missionaries (and still are). France and Belgium did not outlaw homosexuality at home or throughout their colonies.

    • BuiltLikeAGorillaInTheMist

      It’s well understood that the homophobia that is uniformly present across Africa in modern times was established by the policies of European colonizers: before that time, homosexual relations were much more acceptable across a wide swath of Africa. The same goes for India.

      You are either ignorant of history — in which case you have no business commenting on it — or commiting historical gas-lighting of the worse form.

  • Markey Ambrose

    Reading this over again I think he was simply calling a bluff…. He was talking to a comedian after all….

    • rayb_baby

      Oh, give me a break! Even if he was kidding about the rape thing, which I don’t believe he was, his views on gays are still reprehensible.

  • Audrey Lively

    Martin Luther King was a Christian too. Christians are not a hive mind of people responsible for all the evil in the world. Those who hide behind a mask of righteousness and support hate can call themselves whatever they want but their savior does not claim them.

    • Blargh

      If you read this and only react to “Christians did the bad thing” then you should seriously just get the fuck out.

      “People who are suspected of being gay are being beaten and imprisoned, children are being raped, but who gives a rat’s ass? The real headline here is they’re saying mean things about Christianity, amirite?”

      • Nyman

        I think you misread what she said. I think she meant that as a Christian she cannot accept those atrocities, and that Christianity as she sees it also does not accept them. She also basically refuted Lokodo and his ideas, almost insinuating that he is a hypocrite. Please reread.

      • Squibbs

        If that what you got out of her comment, then you should seriously just take your own advice.

      • Audrey Lively

        No, I did not just get that out of the article but apparently many of commenters did and I was just responding to their hatred and stupidity. People always dislike and fear things that are different until their heart and experience teaches them otherwise. Hating on Christians is no less destructive than hating women, children and homosexuals. As a mother who is currently pregnant with her third child and has little ones not yet in school I care very much that children are victimized every day by narcissistic creeps because it hits very close to home. However, this article was about a bigoted, ignorant man who stuck his foot in his big mouth, not a story about an actual child rape victim. What I chose to comment on is not dictated by you- the comment police but thank you very much for your foul mouthed opinion. Try silencing this woman- I don’t even hide behind a fake name.

    • CriticalDragon1177

      I hope that one of his fellow Christians points out to him just how un Christ like his thinking really is. Lokodo is a sick man, and the fact that he’s able to get away with calling himself a man of God, is an insult to God.

  • calmer_than_you_are

    How about focusing on protecting the girls in this country who, through no fault of their own, were born into a horrible situation and have to suffer the consequences of these despicable leaders.

  • Naiad

    You had me until the last two paragraphs. “To think that an otherwise rational human being would imply that heterosexual rape is morally superior to consensual gay sex demonstrates the toxic nature of religious fundamentalism” Whoaaaa – hold on! How did you decide Lokodo is “otherwise rational?” He sounds pretty screwed up to me. And yeah, Christian missionaries condemned homosexuality, but they never condoned child rape. It’s enough to say forcing Christain homophobia on other cultures is despicable. You don’t have to go off the deep end and blame Christianity for child rape.

  • Morgan

    I’d like to see HIM get raped with a fire hose!

  • Friedriche Dali

    Everything is natural anyway… But it does not mean that you have the right to choose for the others against their will….

  • Jeff Horne

    Forget about supposed religious bios because evidence suggests that it doesn’t exist. Individuals within any single religious gathering do not share the same moral values. Our sexual urges are designed to ensure survival of the species. Without those hormones we would never be interested in such activities. Given its purpose, one should question one’s sexual intentions if reproduction is not the end desire with a couple jointly committed to raising a child. After considering that proposal – continuation with satisfaction of our urges is simply that – and regardless of circumstances is sexual deviation. I hasten to add that in any case it is nobody’s business but the participants unless there is the potential for hurt or corruption of a young developing body and mind.

    • Merari

      This is so wrong, it is not even wrong, it is worse. I do not even know where to begin. Let me just leave it at saying that your view of biology is overly reductionist.

      • Jeff Horne

        Hi Merari – don’t get me wrong – I have four children and can assure you that I have engaged in sexual activities far beyond that. My point is simply to ensure we know just what we are engaging in. As for rape of young girls I cannot appreciate what sort of person can be sexually aroused in the presence of a distressed child let alone when they are in control of that horror. The biology is simple and straight forward – our relationships, excitement and intimate connections introduce complications.

  • JasonTorpy
  • http://topologymusic.com Robert Davidson

    It’s not something to blame on missionaries.

  • Mandla Yende

    It is a natural consequence of believing that the Bible is a literal and infallible word of God. And that the bible is consistent and unitary in its revelation from Genesis to Revelation. Such views onhomosexuality are expressed in the Book of Leviticus and the various Epistles of St. Paul.

    Generally it is the theology that has always been taught by missionaries in Africa. And even today by American Tele-evangelists.

    • Keshnee Ramsamy

      Mandla you are an arrogant, ignorant, sexist man. I think that it is rather pathetic that you are airing your opinions in this discussion. This is not based on RACE or CHRISTIANITY but rather the rape of children. If you are defending the rape of children then you are probably guilty of the same act. Please get some education on the subject or create a forum for people like minded (rapists, paedophiles & sadistic individuals) to discuss their sordid views. People with your limited intellectual level aren’t welcome here. This so called “ethics” minister should stop bending Christian teachings to suit his immoral & primitive thinking. These comments are the reason the Western society thinks Africa is stuck in the dark ages & have the thought process of an animal, then again animals do not rape their young.

    • mechgogo

      I will now publish a comprehensive list of all the laws written by God in the United States…..

  • Lord Xantosh

    this is why Religion shouldn’t be the foundation of morals for ruling governments, most religions have been misconstrued way beyond what they were originally, eg: i had an argument a few weeks back with a Christian, over the saying “Love thy neighbor”, he was adamant that it only meant living people around you, but me being a good non-believer of any such religion who has done their homework stated to him, “Love thy neighbor, is to be kind and considerate to anyone you meet regardless of race, belief or even language!” but when he wouldn’t back down over it only meaning those who live near you, i gave up and let him believe in it. that being said, i feel sorry for people living in Africa, to have people like this running the country because a belief was pushed onto them centuries ago that was taught incorrectly and then further misconstrued.

    Religion needs to be kept out of politics due to it creates a biased opinion, the people in charge of a country need to be unbiased in their views, so they can step back and go “Hold on, this shit ain’t right!” then do something about it! I’m not saying religion should be banned, but the people in charge of a country shouldn’t be spouting words from text’s of the belief they have and trying to have it passed as law!

  • Mandla Yende

    Its amazing to read about some of these sanctimonious comments by some white readers; when its a known fact that the US army condones and abets the rape of female recruits, the persecution of gay recruits; and the french condone the ancient right of the master of the first night over his female servants, and many other atrocious practices that you turn a blind eye to. Simon Lakode has expressed himself honestly as a Christian believer which views on homosexuality he shares with many Christians in the west.

    • rayb_baby

      Yeah, I’m a white reader and most of us white readers are totally disgusted with what happens to females in the military, however there doesn’t seem to be as nearly as big a problem for the gays.
      That being said, I don’t give a damn what color you are, those vile “christian” beliefs that you are obviously defending have NOTHING to do with REAL Christianity. They are in total opposition to anything that Jesus taught and if you don’t know that then you are just as ignorant as ALL of the right-wing fundamentalist “christians”. “Simon Lakode has expressed himself honestly” and THAT’S the problem, that he would have such reprehensible beliefs which you obviously share with him.

      • Merari

        Gay (and straight) men get raped in the military as well. Like women they are also scapegoated, told it was their fault and when they attempt to get justice they are likely to be locked up by military tribunal in order to keep things from becoming a scandal. Unlike for women however, there is hardly any councelling or therapy available for them. Such as for the man recently in the news who found that in all the clinics dealing with this thing there was only one single bed available in one single clinic where men were welcome.

        It is a terrible thing, no matter who it happens to and male victims deserve to be taken as seriously as female ones.

      • Cathryn Sykes

        Honesty is a virtue…..but it’s not a virtue that in any way excuses the comments of someone who thinks its fine to rape little girls….or indeed anyone!

    • River

      I’m not arguing that the US is very homophobic as well – I agree with you on this part.
      But… the French condone the ancient right of the First Night??? Really??? Where? I think I should tell my French friends in case they’ve been doing this wrong…

    • http://coffeeandfingernails.com Coffeeandfingernails

      Readers of any race should be appalled when anyone speaks favorably of the brutalization of Ugandan children and if you are not it says a great deal about just how little value you place on the lives of little girls. Adding to that the hatred of Ugandan LGBT persons means Lakode’s statement is hate speech directed at a pretty large number of his fellow citizens. So if you want to get angry about someone sanctimoniously attacking Ugandans, Lakode looks like a pretty good candidate. To label this vicious statement as anything remotely related to Christianity is an insult to Christians all over the world.

      • Alita Wibert

        Yes. Not only is it an insult, it is made in ignorance of true christianity.

    • Mike Tragesser

      Did you say the US (United States) Army condones and abets rape of female recruits? It is not well known fact, because rape in the military is a known and punishable crime. You also say the French get to rape their servants? What are your sources for this wildly speculative information? Face it, your pal,Lakode does not have any Christians in the West that share his beliefs in the right kind of girl-raping or executing homosexuals. You are living in a dream world if you think the West shares the nightmare that exists in only the worst primitive parts of the world. You and your religous beliefs are perverted, evil, and unique to your own hellhole. Free your women, children and yourselves or God will surely judge you harshly.

  • Mandla Yende

    Its a telling fact that today only 16 states out of 51 allow same sex marriages. Is Uganda and its minister any different? Ever heard of the kettle calling the pot black? Of course just understand in America it has nothing to do with religious views. :-) :-)

    • rayb_baby

      It has EVERYTHING to do with religious views.

    • http://WelshnotBritish.com Welsh not British

      51?

      • Melv

        DC probably.

    • Keshnee Ramsamy

      In reading Mandla’s views it is abundantly clear that he is a racist & highly opinionated individual. Making excuses for the tyrants & corrupt politicians of today & comparing them to the European people who oppressed people of colour many years ago does not take away what is currently occurring in African countries. Do not attack an entire race for the mistakes of their ancestors. We all need to stop living in the past & work together to create a better future for all races.

    • mechgogo

      A)51? Since when B)There’s a subtle difference between 34 states not allowing gay marriage and a country’s President signing a law that puts gays in prison simply for existing. Plus I don’t know a street in America where you could safely advocate raping children without getting your head kicked in

  • Dan Francis

    Why isn’t he dead yet? Seriously. Someone go Dark Brotherhood on his primitive ass.

    • Sam O’Donnell

      What would that solve? He is one of millions of people in Africa who think this way, and he’s among the best-educated. We need atheist missionaries to go over there, preach the word of no-gods and show the love of humanity in the process.

      • Dan Francis

        I wouldn’t call him well educated if he thinks like that. Personally, I say get him out of the picture, put in a non-crazy leader and start getting the religious nuts out in force.

        • CriticalDragon1177

          You want us to install a dictator? No matter who we would install as a dictator over there, there would be massive potential for abuse and human rights violations, and it would be very hard to imagine it not happening. Dictators pretty much have to violate human rights to stay in power, especially if they have wide spread opposition in the country. It would also make us look like a bunch of hypocrites if we did it in the name of freedom and human rights.

          The only real hope for innocent people in Uganda, including, but especially gay people, is to change the culture over there so that a large major oppose people like Lokodo. He also technically isn’t the country’s leader. He’s only the “Minister for Ethics & Integrity.”

          • Dan Francis

            I wouldn’t say “change the culture” — It’s Christians and their invading missionaries with their Buybulls that changed the indigenous culture, turning it into what it is now. Wipe that Christianisation out, that’s what I say.

          • Til

            Actually, if i understand this correctly, homophobia was already part of their culture. That was just one of the points they and the missionaries bonded over.

          • Dan Francis

            Hm. On that, I think a little research would be in order. The indigenous, “untainted by Western ways” if you will, peoples I personally have studied, displayed no such behaviour. Now mind, I’m no doctor of anthropology or the like, I just call what I see.

          • Til

            Because all indigenous peoples are culturally identical. The extent of my research has been other news articles on this topic. Go look it up, bookworm.

          • Dan Francis

            Culturally identical? I find that hard to believe after everything I too have researched. Every indigenous people, tribe or nation the same? If so, how is it that such cultural disparity exists?

          • Alita Wibert

            No. It is evil in the hearts of people that made the culture what it is.

          • Dan Francis

            Evil, by way of influence, or was imperialist colonisation missed? No human culture is perfect but by far, the most evil I have seen has been perpetrated by Buybull-carriers more than most others.

      • Susanna Krizo

        “The word of no-gods” What is this word that humans would tell? Love your neighbor as yourself? Doesn’t that come from the Bible?

        • Dan Francis

          Actually, it predates the Buybull, by thousands of years, so, no.

      • sheenaghpugh

        Do we know he’s well educated? So-called “degrees” can be picked up for money from a lot of dodgy institutions. I would not expect any reputable seat of learning to send out people as ignorant as that.

  • http://WelshnotBritish.com Welsh not British

    Our First Minister was recently in Uganda cosying up to these bigots.
    http://welshnotbritish.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/uganda-kill-gays.html

  • DOROTHYHERSELF

    Well it is natural if you’re a rapist.

  • DOROTHYHERSELF

    Where are the men’s voices denying that they are natural rapists? Are men not offended by this? I’d be horrified if I were a man and someone were telling me that I was a natural rapist.

    • Sam O’Donnell

      Goes to show that just because you know a lot, doesn’t mean you know what’s right.

    • Spoodle

      I’m secure in the notion that I’m not a natural rapist, so the ramblings of an idiot in a far off land don’t affect me. I’m more disturbed that this man is in a position of authority. Uganda sounds like a terrifying place to live.

      • DOROTHYHERSELF

        But if you are a Ugandan man, it’s not an idiot in a far off land is it, it’s a member of the ruling government. Men are always conspicuously silent when they are being insulted in this way. Why?

        • Spoodle

          I guess you need to ask a Ugandan man, unless you can think of an example that applies to an Englishman.

          Having watched the video, I’m not sure that the minister believes men are natural rapists. I think he was referring to heterosexual sex being natural but stated this in a completely inappropriate and ill-judged context. Stephen Fry says ‘so it’s okay then?’ and he replies ‘no’. He’s callous and incompetent at best though if a reference to child rape can’t distract him in the middle of his homophobic rant.

          • DOROTHYHERSELF

            Yeah I think part of the problem is that so many people seem to think rape and sex are the same thing – that’s a problem of how we frame what sex is.

            I suppose in a British context, it’s when people say things like “girls shouldn’t get drunk because otherwise men will rape them”. Which is highly insulting to men, because of course they won’t rape drunk girls, unless they are actually rapists. The implication there, is that a perfectly respectable man only needs to be in the company of a woman who drinks a couple of wines too many, and he will suddenly find that he’s not a respectable man after all, he’s a rapist. I would find that insulting if I were a man and I’m always slightly surprised that men don’t take offence at that.

          • Spoodle

            Somebody making a sincere claim that ‘all men are rapists’ is doing so the face of a reality that suggests otherwise. I don’t take offence at that, because it’s clearly untrue and unconvincing, and the person saying it must surely be in a minority with no credibility.
            However, if their argument was convincing to anybody, then I might take offence because I would feel they were doing me an injustice.

          • DOROTHYHERSELF

            I think the argument is convincing to many people though – the idea that women should not do a) b) or c) in case it provokes men into raping them, is surprisingly widespread and usually presented as commonsense. That’s why I wonder more men aren’t offended by it or at least why they don’t speak up against it when it’s presented.

          • Spoodle

            I think this discussion should be more nuanced that it usually is. I agree that a man should be held 100% responsible for his actions, and that a woman’s clothing is not a mitigating factor. I believe you can say that, however, while still accepting that clothing does encourage unwanted attention.
            I was out in a town centre one night and there was a group of promotion girls giving out free cigarettes. They were dressed in cowboy chaps and thongs. Some men glanced over, some stared, some whistled, and a minority grabbed at and smacked their backsides.
            Those last men were crossing the line; strictly speaking you could call it groping or sexual assault, it would certainly be considered as such in an office job. But that was the reality on the street. In an ideal world, those women should be able to wear anything and not be manhandled – but that isn’t the real world. And just to reiterate – the men doing the grabbing were 100% responsible. I wouldn’t whistle at a girl in the street, never mind grabbing them.

          • DOROTHYHERSELF

            Glad to hear it! 😀 On a technical point, actually the men who grabbed them were committing sexual assault even though it’s not in an office job. The problem with this though, is the permission men give themselves and/ or each other to behave like this by arguing that clothing attracts unwanted attention. Again, it only attracts unwanted attention from entitled, yobby males. You didn’t whistle, you didn’t sexually assault the women, so therefore their clothes aren’t the important variable here, in whether they attract that sort of negative attention. The attitudes and behaviour of the men are the important factor. (Women in burkhas get groped.) If the clothes were the important variable, you’d have behaved exactly as the rapey blokes did, because you couldn’t have stopped yourself. But you didn’t because they’re not.

          • Spoodle

            I think we agree about everything but one point. For me, the incident I recounted is clear evidence of clothing attracting *undeserved* attention.

            I get the impression that I’m supposed to deny this whether I believe it or not, because if I don’t I’m giving those men an excuse. Except I’m saying, loud and clear, that I don’t think there’s ever an excuse. My opinion is that the clothing is exposing the ugly attitudes of a minority of men. Yes, women should be able to wear what they want – but are you going to wear chaps and a thong while those men are still out there? You would adjust your behaviour, however unfair it seemed, faced with the threat of any other crime.

            Everything I’m saying hinges on whether certain men behave even more inappropriately around scantily clad women. I feel I have some anecdotal evidence that they do, I can’t really add anything more.

          • DOROTHYHERSELF

            I’m not sure, I think there may be an argument that those men behave inappropriately around women who aren’t scantily clad as well – as I said, women in burkha’s get groped and cat-called and I suspect it’s the same men who are groping them, as those who grope and cat-call the women who wear chaps and thongs. But I think you’re right that they behave even more inappropriately around the scantily clad women precisely because they will get less disapproval from other people, men and women, around the scantily clad ones, than those wearing the burkha (sorry I never quite know how to spell that!).

            It’s in that sense they feel they’ve been given permission if you see what I mean, not that people are actively giving them permission, but that people are more likely to put it down to high spirits and arousing clothing, than the sexual threat and bullying that it very obviously is when doing it to the woman in the burkah. The difference is that they tend to do it to women who are dressed in non-scanty clothes, only when they know that they won’t be pulled up on it by other men. So men are largely unaware of the incredible amount of sexual harassment women are subjected to as they usually only witness the sort of harassment in the context you did – IE when there’s a lot of sexualised behaviour and clothing going on and therefore the sexual harassment is normalised. Those sorts of men don’t usually do it in a normal environment because they know that other men (and women) would instantly see their behaviour for what it is and they don’t like that – so they generally only do it in front of other men, in that sort of environment. That’s what I mean by the “permission” thing.

          • Spoodle

            I think we agree on much of what you’ve said again; those men aren’t experiencing a blip in an otherwise moral existence, they’re habitual offenders who would excuse themselves by saying it’s just a bit of fun, the women love the attention etc etc. Hopefully they’ll be extinct in a couple of decades, in this country at least.

            I don’t think the rest of us are giving them permission though. Intervening in obnoxious/criminal behaviour of any sort you have to weigh up the risks.

          • DOROTHYHERSELF

            Oh I don’t think people should intervene in those situations at risk to themselves. No, by giving permission I mean accepting the premise that it’s the wearing of clothes which causes sexual harassment – every time someone says that the clothes attract harassment, even when they caveat it with the observation that of course it’s not right, they are telling those men that in that situation, they will not be condemned as harshly as they would in another situation. It’s very, very subtle and nebulous, but I think it’s there. I think that’s why people tend to argue this in black and white and sometimes don’t go into detail about why this is so important. Thank you for being so patient as to keep coming back and engaging with the argument btw.

          • Spoodle

            And thanks to you too :)

            Well clearly I’m giving the caveat that you mention (saying ‘it’s not right’ what those men are doing), but you believe I’m also giving them the impression that they will ‘not be condemned’.

            I was once mugged at knifepoint. The idea that I was ‘asking for it’ by walking through the park late at night – I’m such a tease 😉 – would not be considered relevant, any more than clothing should be considered relevant to a sexual attack.

            Back with the mugging, if I advise my friends to avoid the park at night, am I giving ‘permission’ to the muggers by suggesting that my friends risk making themselves a target?

            Avoiding the attention of criminals *is* common sense. But it doesn’t follow that you’re giving the criminal an alibi (“they were asking for it”) if you didn’t take avoiding action.

            Which brings us back to the disputed claim of whether skimpy clothing tempts perverts like an open window tempts a burglar.

        • Alita Wibert

          Maybe they feel that it doesn’t apply to them, and so they don’t react. They figure that the insult is ill founded and untrue and not worthy of a response maybe ?

          • DOROTHYHERSELF

            Possibly. But they’re always quick to point out that “not all men are rapists/ wife beaters / violent” etc. when women talk about either individual cases or statistics. As if their priority is to point out that they’re not, rather than addressing the issue of those who are.

    • Jenkem Huffington

      You can call me whatever you like. There’s a high probability if it’s untrue and absurd on its face I will not worry about it, and will ignore it, and I’ll wager most adult men are of the same mind.
      If you’re walking down the street and somebody points at you and starts shouting that you’re the one who assassinated JFK are you going to jump to the defensive or ignore it as the ravings of a madman? Unless you’re actually the trigger man, I doubt you’ll be on the defensive.

  • khaleesi

    stephen fry had a prime opportunity in speaking to that ethics minister one-to-one. but he shouted his ideals all the way through this interview. he could have achieved more, i think.

  • Isy

    Mr. Lokodo lets assume you as a girl child for a day and let one of the gay men do this right kind of a thing to you. It would be NATURAL.

    • Alita Wibert

      He might answer that he would enjoy it. Rapists have been known to say to the victim “You know you really want this.”

  • Barry Evans

    This shows, that left unchecked by a more secularised society, Christianity is no different than Islam. If Christians elsewhere got more power an influence, then Western countries would also have these kinds of political figures. What a sick and repulsive individual, but his morals come solely from, and are warped by religion, so it is to be expected.

    • Omar

      What do you know about Islam? Or are you just another white honkey ignorant islamophobe?

    • Susanna Krizo

      “Unchecked by a more secularised [sic]society.” Ancient Rome was secular in the sense that it didn’t adhere only to one god; it had multiple gods, even its emperor was god, but its morals came from patriarchy, which knows of no religion other than Money. Circa 30 % of people who lived in Rome were slaves, who were coerced to remain slaves through the threat of crucifixion. More than one Senator had a young child as a “pet”; male and female slaves were frequently raped by their masters as punishment. Children (especially girls) were exposed as infants, or sold to brothels. Thousands of people died on the arenas as “entertainment”; Pax Romana left a wasteland of destruction behind as village after village was decimated (everyone was slaughtered, including children) to showcase the power of Rome and terrorize the other villages into obedience. You can laud the powers of a secular society, but unless it has some guiding principle other than that of pleasure and power, you get the same abuses that are committed in the name of religion. It’s the problem of evil that philosophers have in vain tried to explain.

      • Ekanem Eno

        Damn…I feel like printing ur comment and sticking it to my wall. Too much intelligence in one reply

    • Cathryn Sykes

      His morals come solely from religion? I’d say he’s using religion to bolster his own sickening idea of the role of women. There are plenty of men with no religious beliefs at all who think women are simply one step above livestock, to be valued only for sex, unpaid labor and providing offspring. In fact, I think almost all patriarchical religions were created, at least in part, to justify that view…..which is far older than most religions.

      • Alita Wibert

        Thank you Cathryn

    • Alita Wibert

      His morals come from his own base sickness – NOT a religion

  • Cheyenne

    I wonder if he’d say the same if the child was his daughter.

    • labellelaide

      It shouldn’t matter. Men shouldn’t have to be related to any woman or girl to feel how wrong this is. People always use the “but what if it was YOUR…” argument with men who are pro-rape. But that is also proprietary. All women, whether “belonging” to the man in question or not, should be free.

    • yayagoddess

      oh please. if he gas a daughter, he’s probably already raped her.

  • Merari

    There are times I wish I was not a pacifist.

  • Omar

    @Barry. What do you know about Islam? Or are you just another white honkey ignorant islamophobe?

    • Najib

      @Omar – it is a known fact that in islamic countries raping women, forced genital mutilation, child brides, and the abuse of women in general is common place. Barry was just making the comparison that Uganda is now hijacking Christianity with similarly to how certain muslims have used Islam to terrorize the world, abuse their women, force young teenage girls to marry men the age of their grandfathers, and commit female gentile mutilation. So Barry is not an islamaphobe, it is Islam that needs to change it’s marketing strategies. By the way, I am a muslim, and disgusted by things like forcing women to have a virginity test (egypt) or marrying off young girls to men the age of their grandfathers (taliban) or forcing a woman to marry her rapist to save the family honor (UAE) or throwing acid in the face of woman who rejects a man’s request for marriage (pakistan) and so on. Now Christians in Uganda are going on a genocide mission to seek out and kill their citizens for their sexual orientation? Yes, effectively, then Barry is absolutely right in making the comparison. And by the way Omar, rather than just speak with such stupidity using words such as “white honkey ignorant” – why don’t you do yourself and islam a favor, and speak with intellectual and constructive arguments. As I just did. Ya Hmaar!

      • Swartoski

        wonderful. thank you

      • Jeff Horne

        Every religion has it’s genuine element, it’s radical sector and everything in between. We are all given the ability to rationalise and apply logic and compassion. Sometimes our inaccurate or warped interpretation of religious obligations have us acting completely out of character. Listen to yourself first. I agree with Najib – we need calm and compassionate dialogue.

      • Omar

        Intellectual aguments? You don’t even know the difference between a religion and a culture! I live in a Christian country, and we have one of the highest incidence of rape, including child rape, mutilation etc.Do we blame Christianity for this?Seeing you are so intellectual and such a good Muslim, please point out where exactly in Islamic scripture does Islam condone rape, genital mutilation acts of terror, forced marriage and violence against others? If you cant, do yourself and the world a favour, pull your bottom lip over your head, then swallow.Oh, and thank you for wasting 5 minutes of my life responding to you.

        • Najib

          A good start to your argument, however, spoken with hate and fury and an appropriate example of Islam and the theological rhetoric of the islamic religion. I gave you clear indications of Islamic misinterpretations by many other countries and societies. agh!, but I did leave out the somalian apartheid created by it’s own islamic brothers agains it’s people. As well the Saudies and their hatred against women. SO…where in this muslim regilion will you allow for equal rights for women? Christianity is already a farce in women’s right, especially when it comes to the ultra orthodox religious right of the latter day saints and their polygamy, just like islam. I know well the difference between Religion and Cultural difference, so if you can make the distinction yourself, then you will accept that Barry is right!

        • Najib

          and just for the record, I don’t have to point out in Islamic scripture “where” does islam support or condone any of the cultural phenomenas that you address regarding my own response, BUT…911 was an islamic terrorist act, and a PERFECT example of what I am arguing, NOW, can we get back to the argument at hand, which is the horrific and unjustified manhunt against gay people in UGANDA. Do you OMAR agree that at least, this is a horrific act of human genoncide? Or does your islamic religion allow for this genocide to be approved? Waiting for your intelligent and coherent islamic response. Ya khara!

        • Najib

          I will pull my lip over my head when you and every other muslim make an example of stopping the condoned abuse against women in the islamic world, across all countries and all cultures. What are you arguing for OMAR? islam or the fear that you as a muslim are ignorant and a slave to the religion you so admittedly protect? Ya Hmaar!

  • David Connellan

    Oh glad to see that the author made sure to blame white Christians missionarys from what a hundred years ago for the epidemic rape of black children by black men.

    • William in Uganda

      not a hundred years ago, they are still here and still going pretty darn strong, so check the facts before yet still I do think that you cant blame just the missionaries even though they are still here preaching “the word of God”…

    • HonestMike

      I think it is implying that christian missionaries (sometimes well meaning and reasonable) opened the door to christian fundamentalists (always appalling, disrespectful, dangerous people). THEY are the ones who planted the toxic seeds that have grown ever since, in the minds of people like Lokodo.

      • Alita Wibert

        For those seeds to grow the soil had to be fertile with hate or fear in the first place

    • Spoodle

      7 up-votes for this complete misunderstanding? The article implies that missionaries have instilled such a hatred of homosexuals that consensual gay sex is now viewed as worse than child rape. And if you think this is about skin colour, you’re right down there on the level of this minister.

    • Marlon Fungai Murahwa

      Dude relax, the missionaries were white but really? That! is what you picked out of this article?

  • DrDougND

    Religion is not the REASON for all of this. It is simply a TOOL – one that can be used to better oneself or one that can do incredible harm through indoctrinated thinking without being open to reason and questioning. Secularists can fall into the same traps. I’ve met some atheistic scientists that use the religion of medicine or science to rationalize just as many horrible things as we see from different fundamentalist groups.

    Blame the user of the tool – be it religion or science. We need to stop blaming the tool. I have also witnessed beautiful acts in the name of religion and science by the way. It is an individual’s INTENT that is everything.

    • Mike Tragesser

      Who are these atheistic scientists you have met that used science or medicine to rationalize many things just as horrible as fundamental religious groups? Stoning gays, beheading adulterers, female circumcision, and child rape are pretty heinous. If you have seen as bad or worse, shouldn’t you report them to the authoritites? What have these atheist scientists done?

      • Cathryn Sykes

        In a word….munitions. Including all the weaponry of modern warfare. No group of people, of any kind, is totally perfect or totally evil. Life….and humanity….is never that simple.

        • Spoodle

          The crucial difference is that science doesn’t tell people how to treat others. Marxism-Leninism advocated violent struggle and the abolition of religion, and believers were persecuted. The Bible says that homosexuals ‘must surely be put to death’ and that homosexuality is ‘an abomination’ – and homosexuals are persecuted. Arguments can be made that both ideologies are being used incorrectly, but the problem is that they were written ambiguously and are open to abuse. Dogmatic faith is particularly problematic when it’s believed to be the word of God; nobody’s going to revise that text. Science is not in the same category as these ideologies.

      • Marlon Fungai Murahwa

        Please Mike dude really? Science has been used as a tool, excuse and or reason to do absolutely everything evil i’ll just ring out a few to get you started and others can fill in the blanks! WWII, Human Experimentation, Slavery, Experimentation on Animals, Deforestation, Pollution, Global Warming, Atomic Weaponry, Chemical Warfare, AIDS, GM Foods, Michael Jackson’s face blah blah blah I could go on and on really let’s be serious

        • leilaleis

          Thank you. btw, the scientists responsible could not be “reported to the authorities,” as Mike suggested, as they usually worked for the authorities. Science is, possibly, the most potent tool authority ever had. Religion is pretty potent, too.

        • Spoodle

          Science reveals how the world works, but it doesn’t tell us what to do with that information.
          Ideology tells people what to do. It doesn’t even need to be inherently evil to have bad results; a little ambiguity is enough.

        • Mike Tragesser

          OK I see what you are doing. Everything that ever happened is to be blamed on your bogeyman, the atheistic scientists. However these events were not perpetrated by any espoused atheistic affiliation, most of these folks have some religious affiliation. Child rape is not excused.

        • Susurringly

          Are you blaming science for aids? How is GM food a bad thing?

    • Spoodle

      What informed these ‘atheistic scientists’ when they rationalised horrible things? Why is their atheism relevant? This Ugandan minister was informed by the Bible, we can make a direct link to the text. Where is the direct link in your example?

      Re: blaming the tool – some tools are so dangerous we’d be better off without them. Guns and vague dogmatic ideologies spring to mind.

      • Marlon Fungai Murahwa

        No where in the bible does it say 1 sin is better than another or it is cool to rape people as long as you do it in their vaginas and not their anuses! Lets not get defensive here as a Christian I can safely say that this man has no reverend knowledge of the Bible or if he does he is abusing his knowledge of the word for political benefit.

        • Spoodle

          I agree with your first sentence and did not say otherwise. Lokodo’s repulsive rape argument did not come from the Bible. But he *will* have read in his Bible that homosexuality is ‘an abomination’ who’s practitioners ‘will surely be put to death’ – this is where he finds his validation to spread hate.

          • Frida

            Amen to everything you’re saying @disqus_MoGsHPWL28:disqus

        • Alita Wibert

          Thank you Marion

      • Kelly

        “Informed by the bible”
        Hilarious Quote Of The Day.

    • Alita Wibert

      Amen Doctor.

    • Frida

      Saying that religion is a tool that can be used to better oneself is just such a cop out. What can a human being accomplish by being religious that they couldn’t have done without religion? It’s just a crutch, and for people like Simon Lokodo it can be used as a weapon due to this blind faith that lacks all logic. How can people go through their lives with total assurance that God is real? I don’t buy into this whole ‘it’s a leap of faith’ thing. Why can’t people just have faith in themselves? Buying into the idea of God aiding you is just a trick of your own imagination.

      And “beautiful acts in the name of religion”. Once again it just makes me sick to think that people do things, not because it’s right, but because religion dictates that they do so?

      So yeah, I do believe that religion is the reason. Science doesn’t have an agenda. It doesn’t tell you what will get you to heaven and what will condemn you to hell. It only points out the metaphysical improbability of either of those two existing.

  • Lucifer Yahweh Orloff

    In ancient Greece, Philosophy was the Religion of Education, and it was both rational and pious. Alas! Christian Rome destroyed the Academy, snuffing out the light, followed by a thousand years of darkness.

    • http://stasisonline.wordpress.com Tom

      You gotta watch your capitalisation, or your writing becomes damn confusing.

    • Cathryn Sykes

      Rioting Christians burned the libraries of ancient Alexandria. And reportedly murdered on of the most brilliant minds of the ancient world, the female astrologer and mathematician, Hypatia. There is no significantly large group, anywhere, that is either totally evil or totally good, and it’s foolish and lazy to make such wide generalizations. There are always those who take good ideas and moral teachings and twist them to justify their own evil. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia

    • Andre Borges

      The academy was closed in the 530s AD by Justinian…. though it was the Christian church that was directly responsable for that… 600 years after the Roman conquest.

    • Alita Wibert

      Rome was not “Christian”.

  • And I’m Cute, Too

    I’m a man and a Christian. This Minister’s remarks make me want to vomit.

    • Alita Wibert

      Me too. Vomit I mean.

    • Bongs

      eish, I’m wit u there, he doesn’t deserve to be serving the country.

    • duckz

      Thing is that in the Bible rape is fine as long as you force your victim to marry you and pay her father. I don’t understand why his remarks would make you want to vomit when it’s written down in the book you revere. I don’t mean to be mean but it has to be said.

      • And I’m Cute, Too

        First things first. I don’t revere the Bible. I revere my Lord.

        I do my best to learn from the Bible, since I see it as a record of God at work in this world, trying to bring us back to Him. The part which you refer to is in the Torah, and is one of many laws given to the people of Israel. This particular law (believe it or not) was meant to provide for a woman who had been raped, and punish her assailant.

        In the culture of the ancient Near East, an unmarried woman who had lost her virginity (for any reason) wouldn’t be able to marry later. (We can see that in the case of King David’s daughter Tamar.) And since women, for the most part, weren’t allowed to work or hold property, this would have caused her financial ruin in addition to her physical and emotional anguish. The purpose of this law was to force her rapist to take responsibility for his crime, by making restitution to her family and by providing for her future. Rape was not “fine”, as you seem to think — this law describes how it was punished.

        Now, do I wish that God and Moses had come up with a more progressive remedy than this? Absolutely. This is one of many portions of the OT that I struggle to understand, especially given our current knowledge regarding the mentality of rape, and the risks of reoffending. At the same time, I think I can make some sense of it.

        But I don’t consider this law to be prescriptive for Christians today. It was meant for the people of Israel living as a theocracy. We don’t live under theocracy now, and I don’t think that we should. For Lokodo to say these disgusting things about rape now, with all of the understanding we’ve gained, betrays a level of ignorance and heartlessness which I find culpable. So, yes, his remarks nauseate me.

        I apologize if I’ve carried on a bit long. But your comment seemed to characterize Christians (or at least, me) as being tolerant of rape because of a single Israelite law. Even though you didn’t intend to be cruel, I take that personally,

        • duckz

          The fact is that god condones rape by putting this law in his book as he condones slavery and genocide. In fact, not only does he condone genocide, he orders his loyal followers to massacre millions of people. The god of the New Testament is the same one as the god of the Old Testament so to say one is for Christians and the other is for Jews just doesn’t flow. That same god that preached “Love thy neighbour” was perfectly fine with you owning another person, raping a woman, seeing a woman as property, and murdering millions.

          Sorry my comment isn’t very long but I believe that I’ve said all I need to.

  • JBirch

    Ah Christian Missionaries spreading their joy everywhere!
    Isn’t the love of God supposed to be all forgiving? How did Christianity get so screwed up?

    • Alita Wibert

      People screwed it up.

      • duckz

        I agree. People brought religion into this world and that screwed things up big time.

    • Jeffrey Black

      All that “love” is based upon trying to cover up all the evil and hatred in the OT. When you start with something really screwed up, and then try to contradict it while claiming to be from the same, divine, inerrant source, it will just end up even more screwed up.

  • CriticalDragon1177

    Michael Stone,

    There is no word in the English Language to describe how sick
    Father Simon Lokodo actually is, and this guy is supposed to promote “ethics and integrity.”

  • Guy Williams

    My Mum’s a Christian and this vileness in no way represents her faith.
    I hope this man’s views on rape do not represent the Ugandan people’s

    • CriticalDragon1177

      I would hope so to. If they are mainstream over there, then human rights activists have an even bigger fight on their hands than we thought.

      • Birungi

        Unfortunately, with the level of hate that i saw and read during the debate on the anti-homosexuality bill that has just been signed into law, I wouldnt be suprised if most Ugandans defended this guy. That is how low my country has gotten.

  • Sungoddess

    Religion has screw the world period.

    • Alita Wibert

      No. Sick crazy PEOPLE have screwed the world.

    • paulo

      Religion is created by the world. Money is created by the world. The world has screwed the world. The world has screwed itself.

  • Andre Borges

    Religion is for idiots.

    • Stu

      This Ugandan idiot does not speak on behalf of all religion. To say religion is for idiots is a strong comment Andre. Not to say I’m a devout believer as churches might want me to be, but there is some good in religion, and much more to be learnt from it than people wish to even ask. Atheism and materialism without ‘spirituality’, which religion provides to some, will be the downfall of this planet into a one world corporatocrisy, and not religion.

      • Spoodle

        “Atheism and materialism without ‘spirituality’, which religion provides to some, will be the downfall of this planet”
        Atheism gets the blame again. I sometimes wonder if people conflate the two meanings of materialism – the first where only the physical exists and can be investigated scientifically, and the second where people’s greatest motivation is to amass wealth and possessions. As an atheist I can see how the second is vacuous and unsustainable, and I would rather our schools focused on nurturing individuals and improving society than on improving the economy. I just don’t think that superstition and religious labels have a constructive role to play.

        • Roddy P. Carbonell

          Religious philosophies like Buddhism are okay, but religions are just organized superstitions. You cannot get too much good out of that.

          • Spoodle

            Yes – and I’m not aware of Buddhism making statements about ‘out-groups’ being enslaved, put to death, or going to hell. Up with Buddhism!

          • Frida

            That’s not true. There are prominent figures within the buddhist faith that preach hate and violence. U Wirathu aka “the Burmese bin Laden” for example.

          • Spoodle

            I’m referring to ideology – ie the writings of the founder (or as close as we can get). If the prominent figures you mention have found something in the teachings that inspires them to hate and violence – by which I mean something that we can identify in the text – then I would have to change my opinion. Buddhists doing bad things are not necessarily doing it because of Buddhism.

          • Frida

            Yeah, I get what your saying. I know too little of the buddhist scriptures to say anything about that. My point, I guess, is just that religion, by default, transforms into horrific acts no matter what the source material is: it’s the nature of the beast. When people are promised divine reward, the U Wirathu’s and Simon Lokodo’s of the world are born because there is profit to be made in controlling those individuals.

            That’s just a really long way of saying that, yes buddhism is a more peaceful faith originally, but because it is a religion it is just as toxic as Islam and Christianity. In my opinion.

          • Stu

            As far as Buddhism is concerned, well there we have a religion that’s also been infiltrated or bastardised by external forces/agendas just like the early Christian church was. The Chinese government has long meddled with Buddhism, so much so that the seventeenth Karmapa and the existing (eleventh) Panchen Lama are not even recognised by the Dalai Lama.

          • paulo

            Rohingya massacre by Buddhists?

          • Spoodle

            I’ve already answered this two comments down Paulo. I would distinguish between religiously inspired violence and tribal violence between religiously defined communities. Although the former could exacerbate the latter, I’m unaware of Buddhist teachings that diminish non-Buddhists or call for violent action (though I could be wrong).

        • Stu

          A worthy response Spoodle. I’m defending the study and importance of religion, past, present and perhaps future, in whatever form. Materialism? The first of your definitions. Perhaps superstition has no constructive role to play, but that’s not to say all the philosophies, teachings and wisdom contained in many of the world’s religious works are superstitious or indeed, suspicious.

      • Biff

        Dude you just defended religion above anything else in this article which includes child rape.

        • Stu

          I did not defend child rape, dude. Troll elsewhere.

          • emma_lee20

            he didn’t say you defended child rape. he pointed out that you cared more about defending religion than defending children the ugandan minister said it was ok to rape.

          • Stu

            Oh dear Emma, please look at the initial comment I responded to.

      • wayne theron

        “there is some good in religion”. Religon is responsible for the lions share of wars spanning human history. there is nothing good about religon that cannot be obtained through other means.

        • Stu

          Wayne, that’s the same boring rhetoric I hear from anti-religion, atheist-type people the world over of late. (I’m not saying you are). If you allude ‘by other means’ to things like practising yoga and meditation then I’m with you. There is some truth in what you say about wars but I somehow doubt if you succeed in convincing the world to dump religion and spiritual commune through praise of deity or nature, that you will have a planet without war. The world’s issues cannot be blamed squarely on religion. Having studied most of the world’s religious works, included in Hinduism, Sufism, Manecheism, and other mystical religions/orders like Rosicrucianism and the great work of the Theosophists like Blavatsky and Steiner, I reiterate that there is much to be learnt from religion. The fact that the Western World is waking up (by proxy of the Internet) to the wrongs of the Roman Catholic Church (and other hardline religions), doesn’t make it right to just turn one’s back on the knowledge contained and handed down by mystics, prophets and wise men of said groups. I understand exactly why, never before, has it been so tantalising to become a non-believing atheist with science as it’s god, with all the bad press around for religion. There isn’t a simple choice between reason and faith. Religion is reasonable, based on the assumptions of idealism,just as science is reasonable, based on the assumptions of materialism. Objective testing is the touchstone of science, while subjectivity, the test of human experience, is the touchstone of religion. Dawkins will have us all believe that the universe existed as matter which made mind. Age old wisdom contained in the worlds religious books say that a great cosmic mind made matter. If it’s because some have been falsely led to believe by their churches that this great cosmic mind is a man with a grey beard, then they’re just as foolish as those who wish not to seek answers on the subject and feign knowledge. I’m still seeking…and it’s exciting.

          • wayne theron

            In my opinion, religion came about as a means to control the masses and within its time there has been very smart people who have parted knowlede that should really exist outside the relams of religion. So as to your point about valuable information i do partially agree on the bases that all the knowledge within is biased towards a general direction. The problem with this is that it leaves the interpretation to the individual so as to diverge the underlying meaning enough to result in many different interpretations. This is why religion is difficult for people to talk about across cultures and fundementally why your point about it being valuable incorrect. It will only be valuable if the interpretation is without divergence.

          • Stu

            Sure, but I believe that just as there is an awakening to many facets against faith/belief/religion/spirituality, there is an equal awakening to it’s true and initial purpose, the value of which I am confident will be shared across cultures soon. I’ll add that I’ve put the cross-cultural religious talk into practice – I’ve had extremely interesting and meaningful discussions with Muslims for example, when I come from an initially Christian upbringing.

          • Biff_in_Burnaby

            wayne, religion came about to try & explain the (at that time in history) the unexplainable to children, they believed these stories and over time they became “fact”.

            The lions share of wars were started by the leaderships of these religions in centuries past recently (the last 300 years the vast majority is from politicians. Maybe we should let anarchy rule and get rid of them all.

            They were allowed to do this because of ill informed religious and party members. This is changing now as we speak. Look at The Ukraine or the middle east as people become better informed and will not allow their governments/religions to make decisions without consequences.

        • Biff_in_Burnaby

          Sure wayne, ya keep thinking that way but stay away from any logic. Are you related to Will?

      • will

        Dear Stu I strongly suggest you go back to school and try to become of use to this world. The first recorded war was about religion and people wishing to believe it never happened and they were persecuted for it. Religion is for killers, it say’s in the bible that a man with off color skin is to be a slave, its okay to rape woman, and woman should obey their masters.

        After reading your comments I have to say that you are an idiot, If you really did take all those religious courses you would know nothing good came from religion, religious people were inspired by delusions not the religion.

        I could spend all day telling you how wrong religion is but since you took all those courses, tell me who wrote the bible? just some sheep herder, no one of any importance and after he wrote it he was praised.

        All religions are murdering, sexist and racist this my friends is fact, and you as you hopefully paid attention in class and heard about the damage of religion should not be sticking up for it!
        Religion should be destroyed so no one else has to die because of it.

        • Stu

          Dear Will, you must get great joy out of sitting behind a PC screen calling people names so I’ll leave you to wallow in your self-imposed ignorance and infantile retort. Run along now lad….

        • Biff_in_Burnaby

          My gosh Will, who peed on your breakfast cereal?

          While I do not believe in any of the religions out there, I condemn a number of people that use their religion of choice to further their lot in life. A vast majority of the peoples of the world find comfort in their religion and have better, happier lives as a result.

          You can blather on all day – and into the night – giving us your views on all religions, save your time. Your views are not needed as you want to paint all members of all religions with the same brush.

          Please look at the good that the majority of religions do and stop with your narrow minded and frankly foolish thoughts on it.

          I am an atheist and I will complain to people who push their religion on others but I will not condemn a whole segment of the population because of foolish zealots. You should look in the mirror. Your views sound very close to the people you are talking about. It’s sad.

      • Miamomma

        If you really look at religion objectively, it is the root of all evil in the history of the world. Not that everyone who practices is evil…but it certainly causes a lot of harm…more than good. More evil people hide behind it than anything. We shouldn’t need a religion to tell us to be (or how to be) a good person.

        • Stu

          Miamomma, I understand where you are coming from. Evil people hide behind governments and other organisations as well, just look at the financial crisis the world is in. A simple wiki or Google search will reveal what you are alluding to though: Countless slaughters in the name of heresy of the Roman Catholic Church (one of the most horrible being the slaying of the Cathars at Montsegur), the Muslim and Christian crusades of the holy land, Hitler’s war on the Jews….the list goes on. My point is that we are all awakened to these atrocities in the ‘name of religion’ by the new information we now posses. We no longer blindly attend Church in the name of faith, and those that gave up on collective praise and reflection long ago, probably found it boring and without substance. My point throughout this thread is that there is much to be learnt about humanity’s historical record, both spiritually and factually, in all the world’s religious works: The Bhagavad Gita, The Koran, The Jewish Kabbalah and even some parts of the Bible. My view is that the greatest percentage, if not the whole of those shunning religion, even the study of it, come from a Christian background. Atheists are flocking from Christian backgounds the world over, for many reasons including your own. Christianity is in a state. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Sufism….still thriving. You say we shouldn’t need religion to be a good person? I agree. I don’t believe people need to attend church. But I do believe time should be set aside for spiritual reflection (through meditation, yoga, investigative analysis of religious works) instead of just some shunning away from religion. We might not need religion and places of worship to show us how to be a good person now, but it was the divine-given tool used throughout the ages to teach previously barbaric (have we come any further?) civilisations on how to live together. These early works were not written by some single goat herder, as some atheists will have us believe, but by men (Moses, Zarathustra, Krishna, Moses, Socrates, Jesus by proxy of his disciples, Mohammed to name but a few) who were deeply touched and enlightened by the wonders of the cosmos and the divine mind, and who produced blueprints on good living, for men of those ages to flourish. The values we have come to know on how to be a good person, have their roots embedded deeply in the religious works, and they therefore possess and demand some form of credibility and respect.

        • Jimmy

          And you don’t need a religion to be a good person, nor does having one instantly make you a good person. I am not sure you can truly say religion causes more harm than good but I won’t debate that as who really knows? What causes harm is not the religion but the people with dark intentions.

          Evil people will always exist and it isn’t just religion they hide behind, wealth, power, status..there are countless ways a person can hide. All we can really hope for is that these people can slowly be weeded out faster than they are replaced from groups/institutions/wherever that give them access to cause harm

    • Kat

      I am a Christian and i can safely say Religion is Harmful and brings suffering. Religion is about fundamentalism, rules and things made by Humans. Relationship with God is completely different it is a journey, a process, and it is personal. you and Him. the rest is everything we make it out to be and using His Name to justify their actions is even more harmful to those who know Nothing about our God who LOVES us.

  • deborah

    lokodo needs standing in public and shooting no child rape is the right kind of rape how can he preach and believe this is right sick twisted excuse for a human being

  • Denis

    Please the writer of this article stop misleading others with your perception. You may need to empathetically listen to his speech again.

    • frankiefan

      I have listened to the actual words he said a number of times. That is what he said.

      • Miamomma

        Me too. That’s what he said. Denis, are you a rapist and pedophile, too, that is ok with raping little girls? As long as the little boys don’t get raped by men, then its ok, right?

    • And I’m Cute, Too

      Then, do enlighten us, Denis. Please explain to us how we misconstrued Lokodo’s words: “men raping girls… is natural.”

    • Biff_in_Burnaby

      I hope that your ridiculous “thoughts” were some form of stupid attempt at humour or you are a part of the problem. I have seen dandruff with more intelligence than your statement.

    • Wendy from Canada

      Are you serious??? In no way could a speech or any words vindicate this man! He says that men raping girls is natural and implies that it is acceptable! Perhaps you need to move to Uganda, cause there is no place for your idiocracy in the modern world of North American!

    • EliyahuBenYisroel

      Please be so good as to explain how a statement that it’s quite natural for men to rape girls can be construed in a positive light.

  • Asa Gregard-Shafer

    So how do we get rid of this bastard and anyone who agrees with him. Hell is waiting for him and his followers.

    • Jeffrey Black

      Why would your god send someone to hell for being the evil dick he commanded them to be?

  • Charles Martin

    How about instead of worrying about religion and what not lets just be good people. i don’t need a religion or a wise man or any of that bs to tell me what is right and wrong. I know hurting someone else or treating them like anything less than human is wrong because im not a fucked up individual. If you need someone else to tell you how to behave and act and maybe even threaten you with punishment then you clearly have low morale standards.

    TLDR: Stop being dicks to each other and lets just all work together to make this world a place we can survive in.

  • Anonymous

    Being Pervert Man is Mortal Sin than Being Gay, because God never condemned gay peoples, and Our New Pope say, If you Hate Gay peoples you are not just homophobic, you are also Godophobic because God Love them, So give respect to all people who are in third sex because we don’t have part to judge them or discriminate them because we are not GOD

  • Rhonda Bishop

    So let me get this correct, You want to Kill LGBT People, But It is OK to rape Children and Young Girls? What Sick Twisted Bible do you read? Screw the Bible, What Sick Ba****D You Are!

    • Magnus O’Pus

      But the bible has many sick and twisted passages. You are shocked because you haven’t really read the book. Look at the story of Lot and his daughters, the 42 children god killed for teasing a bald man or the many others that condone rape, slavery, incest and murder. I think it should be banned or severely edited so children don’t read that crap.

      • Kat

        I suggest you also read the Bible Carefully before you pick one story out that will demonize the whole Book. So here is what i know.

        There are stories of Love, of acceptance, of healing, of the rejeceted being healed, of those who had suffered their whole lifetimes finiding purpose,

        The Good Book is about acceptance, about perseverance and people who refer only to the Old Testament are not aware of Jesus and what He did and does for the world.

        God is Love, I am a Ugandan and i love the Bible and it makes me sad when people associate this mandate with God. This is clearly the Devil working through people.

        To be honest, a lot of people are more unhappy about the perception of ugandans than the Bill itself. we have so many other problems and we know that. Adultery, rape, poverty, but the thing about a Government that is doing nothing, is that they have to pick the most contorversial things that can then stir up drama to look as though they are useful.

        I understand that this Bill upsets people and trust me, we hate when our ‘leaders’ talk in such a way, but its a step at a time

        • Jeffrey Black

          You should follow your own advice. Read the whole Bible, rather than cherry picking the “good” parts.
          The Bible is a horrid book, that states men having sex with men is an abomination worthy of death. If anything, your attitude would be from the devil, not his.

          • Kat

            Im not cherry picking. I am actually being more objective than you. If anything it says that all sin is worthy of death. not just homosecuality. I for one would never think i am above anyother because they are gay and ‘all i do’ is steal for example. i am not God and cannot judge who is worthy of what punishment. i dont however accept that all the Bible is a book of punishment. get back to me when you have read the WHOLE Book.

          • Jeffrey Black

            Bull.
            You are cherry picking and focusing on the good, while ignoring the bad parts.

            Yes, the Bible says all sin is worthy of death, which just makes it worse, especially when there is nothing wrong with lots of sin (like homosexuality). I never said anything contrary to this.

            Do you feel the same way about other sins and think that imprisoning people for murder is the devils work?

            And yes, the entire Bible is not a book full of punishment, again, I never said anything like that.

            As for reading the whole book, which book would that be? You are aware the Bible is a collection of books and the like, not a single book?

          • Kat

            yes i am in fact aware. Anyway, i didnt mean to agitate you, seems to be all i have done, or discredit your opinions, was just offering another point of view.

            I believe people should be punished and justice should be served, believe me, but it is different when you have grown up in a country like this where that is not an option nor will it be any time soon. Beacause of injustice in my country, my mother died, so i get it

            forgive me if i misunderstood any of the things you said. It irks me that this is my government,

            it grieves me that many are suffering with those elected to do something about it doing nothing. the thing is there are some things that happened in the Bible that will always be beyond our comprehension.

            Alrighty, thanks for the chat.
            i therefore choose to apply it to my life the best way i can

          • Jeffrey Black

            No. You are not agitating me, at least not yet.

            If you think people should be punished and justice should be served and are a Christian, what do you oppose about this law or his position?

          • Kat

            I oppose the fact that he is misrepresenting God in that he is picking out what he thinks is the worst of the sins, and persecuting because he has to power to do so.

            I am opposed to the fact that people just cant mind their own business and let people live knwing that if what they are doing is wrong, it is them who shall answer to God if He requires an answer.

            I am opposed to the fact that this Political leader and many of his kind are the reason our country is devoured by corruption and yet they are the voice that is heard all over the world.

            I am opposed to the fact that we the public and the majority have no voice and that we are potrayed to the western world as all being of the same opinion. There is a lot i am opposed to about his position, this law what it stands for what it doesnt. many things

          • Michelle

            It makes me so happy to see a believer who embraces the real teachings of Christianity – love others as you would like to be loved regardless of who they are or what they do. I’m fed up with the keyboard bashing between atheists and Christians both trying to change each others beliefs. It won’t happen unless you can show something that can’t be denied by the other. Showing God’s love is more likely to convert than condemning people when it is not your job to judge. I’m agnostic myself but was brought up in the Christian way so understand what it means. Please continue to spread your love and maybe some day it will reach people like this politician!

          • Jeffrey Black

            Do you feel the same way about other sins? Like murder, or theft?

            As for showing God’s love, what love would that be?
            You mean where he created a man and a woman without knowledge of good and evil, put a tree there to tempt them, threatened them with death (which they would also have no idea about) if they ate it, let a snake tell them it is fine to eat and they will just be like God, knowing good from evil, then let them eat it, just to kick them out and make them suffer?

            That’s not loving.

            How about later on, when he decided mankind was so bad, he had to kill every single person (except Noah and co).

            How about later in Sodom where he was going to wipe out the entire town, but was convinced to send some angels to see if anyone was righteous, and they found lot, who was so righteous he stopped the male angels from being raped and instead offered his daughters to be raped, yet God still saved him, but of course his wife, who looked back, got turned into a pillar of salt.

            How loving your god is.

            Not to mention Abraham, that was told to kill his son to show his loyalty, and then later on, to mutilate his genitals and those of his sons.

            How about Egypt? God first makes a famine that gets the Jews enslaved, so he then has some pathetic excuse to torture the Egyptians to show off, while preventing the Pharaoh from letting the Jews go, by hardening his heart, and going back on his deal.

            You then have the countless genocides committed by the Jews at God’s command.

            You then have him killing his own son, just to show his love, when he could have simply forgiven us.

            And of course, I can’t forget the most relevant “act of love” where God commands the death of men who have sex with men.

            How is any of that loving?
            How could anyone think a being of love or a loving being could do all that?

            How can anyone in their right mind, think the Biblical god is loving, unless they are ignorant of the Bible.

            If you think that is love, I don’t want it, and I don’t want anyone spreading it. Most people would call it evil or hate.

          • Michelle

            Honestly I didn’t really read that because you’re obviously one of the keyboard-bashing atheists I was talking about. It is also obvious that you don’t understand the teachings of the bible as your examples are from the old testament, which has very few similarities to the new testament (which is where Christianity is really hashed out). You seem to be full of hate, and have become as bad as the bible-bashers who shove their beliefs down your throat. Understand what you are fighting against before you try to use their own knowledge against them as well. I am not a Christian but I will defend any person of any belief from people like you.

          • Jeffrey Black

            So basically, as you can’t respond to a rational argument, you just dismiss it and spout some crap. How pathetic.

            Also, if you were going to defend anything, you would actually respond to the arguments put forward, not just dismiss them.

            As for me using the OT, you referred to God’s “love”. This is the same god as that found in the OT. This god is an evil tyrant that screws with humans for fun or to show off. It is anything but loving.

          • Jeffrey Black

            Is he acting like this is the worst sin? I see no indication of that.

            In what way is he misrepresenting God? God declares homosexuality an abomination worthy of death. The only misrepresentation would be imprisoning instead of killing the homosexuals.

            Your 2nd paragraph is in direct conflict with what you said before where you said that people should be punished and justice should be served (when considered alongside your Christian beliefs).

            Your 3rd paragraph doesn’t address the main issue, instead it focuses on symptoms. The big issue is Christianity. That is a very significant contributor to why your country is turning to shit. It is also one of the reasons why America is turning to shit. Don’t just focus on this guy, focus on the underlying issue.

            Your final paragraph is in conflict with your religious belief. If you believe God is in charge and gets to set rules, then you shouldn’t be wanting the majority to decide on things like if homosexuality is a crime. It should be a simple case of God says it is a crime so it is.

            Are you opposed to homosexuals being punished for having homosexual sex? If so, you are opposed to the god you claim to follow.

          • perhaps

            You’re being really nice, but there’s no need to defend your beliefs to someone who has already made up their mind about you. It seems very difficult for people to grasp that the New Testament is about reconciliation, while the Old Testament showed us the gravity of sin: people were punished for their sin, sometimes with an immediacy & urgency (e.g Sodom & Gomorrah). Christians are meant to follow Christ’s example of the New Testament: Love, Kindness, Mercy, Forgiveness, Grace & Reconciliation. However, it seems some will only focus on the Old Testament, which really, even Christ came and made some clarifications (e.g the Sabbath for man, not man for the Sabbath). And anyone with half a brain would know that if Love, Kindness, Mercy, Forgiveness, Grace & Reconciliation are characteristics of a Christian, it’s quite obvious and plain that a law like this is unChristian. But we will always have ‘Christian’ extremists and if you know anything about African politricks, it’s obvious that this is about pretending to be doing something because the so called ‘gay-agenda’ (which has been brought in by evangelical Americans by the way) is a popular topic. Meanwhile the govt will continue to be corrupt thieves and control the country while everyone else is distracted by the anti-gay bill. It’s a distraction tactic and gay people are the collateral and the govt is the beneficiary. Just watch. Oh and this is Museveni’s way of saying F U to the west and at the same time make the ignorant think that the west is the enemy. The response from the west is as expected so all this outrage is just playing into their game.

          • Jeffrey Black

            Do you feel the same way about other sins such as murder or theft?
            Do you feel we should just forgive these people and let them continue sinning if they want to and allow God to judge them?

            As for the clarification Jesus provided, do you mean where he says its fine to break the law if you deem it a good reason?

            In order to determine if this law is unchristian you must first ask if all law is unchristian. Jesus said to not judge, and turn the other cheek and so on. This should be taken to apply universally, meaning all laws, including those against murder and theft would be unChrsitian.

            If you decide that shouldn’t be taken so literally and thus you can have laws that are Christian, then there is nothing wrong with this law as God declared men having sex with men an abomination worthy of death. The laws that would be unChristian would be ones where raping your wife is a crime or slavery is a crime and so on.

            All Christians suffer a significant problem, they either follow the evil tyrant God, or they follow the slightly better Jesus who defied this god.

    • Jeffrey Black

      That would be what is commonly known as “the Holy Bible”.
      Lots of people have it.

    • phina

      hahahahahahaahahahaha

  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/Northamericandefenseleague/ Roy Mears

    If there is a drop of decency in the Western governments, all foreign aid should be cut off to Ugandan until they join the human race in the 21st century.

    • perhaps

      “until they join the human race in the 21st century” why demean them? You can say they are ignorant, but they are still humans and last time I checked my watch they are humans in the 21st century. I’m just saying in the process of expressing ourselves and our opinions it’s not very productive to dehumanising people. True, he is VERY wrong, and it is a sick and evil way of thinking, that is true. But Ugandans are still human beings in the 21st century, and many of them are not homophobic, many of them are progressive and critical thinkers. Let us not lump them all together. A lot of rotten eggs but not all rotten eggs.

      • anilg

        well said

    • Full Denim Alchemist

      The “human race” being the same group that the evangelical Americans who spread these horrible ideas in the first place came from? I’d be interested to see how traditional Ugandan society dealt with child rape and homosexuality before the cancer that is American evangelical Christianity came and spread its poison to the minds of the Ugandan people. This isn’t a problem with Uganda, this is a problem with the American Christian Right.

    • isaac

      we shall stick to our value, we are shall not be influenced by the western culture in the line of aid Africa is a rich continent for self sustainability.

    • paulo

      The human race that practised slavery for centuries, the human race that has people in Guantanamo Bay locked up without being given a day in court. The human race that killed millions of people in world wars and continues to own arsenals on nuclear arms enough to obliterate the human race? Knock it off!

    • Matt Sharp

      So in response to Ugandan government officials saying it’s ok to harm gay people and rape girls, you’re saying we should allow gay people and girls to die from malaria and TB and AIDS etc? Is that really a good answer? Why not just send the aid directly to people rather than going via governments?

      • phina

        I agree

    • Jeffrey Black

      I disagree. If the western governments were really decent they would save the Ugandans from their corrupt, terrorist government by wiping out the terrorist government.

  • Donald Knight

    The man is severely intellectually challenged!

  • terramundi

    Religion has brought about death to millions; so has science. Gunpowder alone has been a scourge to Humankind, as has the atom bomb. The professed atheist Stalin killed millions upon millions of people.

    Before everyone gets upset, my point is this: just as I will not use the example of Stalin to denigrate all atheists, I will not use religion to denigrate all the religious in the world. All science is not evil; shall I then make the mistake of staining all who participate in scientific endeavors as evil?

    Some people are stupid, some are flat out evil, some are rapists, killers, slavers… the list of our shortcomings is almost endless; there is no continent, color, or creed (or lack thereof), which can protest their innocence from the awfulness of human nature.

    There are also people who are kind, thoughtful, self-sacrificing, compassionate, intelligent, and giving. Happily, they live around the globe, in every color, continent, and creed (or lack of one). How about let’s focus on this delusional man apart from a creed– it is too easy to lay all the blame on a religion and to lessen his own personal responsibility for his hate.

    • Jimmy

      Thank you, excellent comment and very true

    • Jeffrey Black

      You know the big problem with your statement?

      Religion is an ideology with commands that people who claim to follow it are expected to obey, and a system that lots of people like claiming has a basis for morals.

      Atheism is simply the absence of belief in a god, in fact, some religions are atheistic.

      Science is simply a method to determine how reality works.

      If people use scientific knowledge to kill, it is their own doing, not that of science. Sure, science might have given them the knowledge, but they could have figured it out themselves.

      If atheists kill, there atheist is pretty much irrelevant, you cannot kill or the like for atheism.

      Religion on the other hand, as I said before, has commands that people are expected to follow and a “moral system”.
      Christianity is one of these religions. It contains commands (which due to Jesus are not necessarily meant to be followed) to kill men who have sex with men. It teaches that homosexuality is an abomination worthy of death. If people kill homosexuals, they very easily could be doing it because of their religion. Laws like this can be justified by religion.

      Similarily, his opinions on rape can also come from Christianity, where the punishment for raping a non-betrothed virgin is to marry her and pay her father for her. The punishment for raping a betrothed virgin in a city is the death of both the rapist and the victim.

      Christianity is not blameless here. So instead of focusing on the symptom and just trying to treat it, we focus on both. The delusional, bigoted, morally bankrupt man, and the evil, morally bankrupt hate-cult he is a member of (Christianity). They are both to blame, and his cult is a far greater problem than him.

      • terramundi

        I am not attempting to remove the blame for the extremist versions of Christianity that are being practiced. I am attempting to remove the knee-jerk reaction some people have when they see someone full of fear, anger, and hatred and automatically assigning those to a religion, rather than the person him/herself.
        Frankly, I don’t care whether a person believes in science, science as a god, the god of a religion, or no god at all. What I do care about is how that person treats the world around them. Too many times there are societal smokescreens (aka, excuses) for the behavior of individuals; I would like to remove those and hold the person responsible for his/her actions.

        • Jeffrey Black

          It is not extremist versions of Christianity. It is Christianity in general. Christianity declares homosexuality an abomination worthy of death.

          I am not saying to ignore the person, they are just as much to blame. But you shouldn’t just focus on the person. The person is merely a symptom of a much larger problem.

          No decent doctor would try to just treat the symptoms and ignore the underlying problem. Everyone decent person should be fighting both, the symptom (i.e. the person) and the underlying problem which caused the symptom (i.e. Christianity).

          You want to focus on the person, and not his religion, even going to such extreme lengths as pretending it is comparable to science or atheism, which has no commands to follow.

          • Jenkem Huffington

            Please cite where Jesus ever said that homosexuality is an abomination worthy of death.

      • Guest

        Christianity saw homosexuality an abomination worthy of death when God dealt directly with the people and when Moses Laws ( the ceremonial law) reigned. After Jesus, we are thought to love mankind and leave all judgement to God.
        Romans warns: Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

        All types of sin is sin. Breaking any one of the ten commandments, has the same penalty by God as being a gay person.

        • Jeffrey Black

          So we shouldn’t have murder and theft and the like illegal and those that want to should be free to go and kill and steal without consequence until God decides to judge them?

    • Joan Pfann

      I think both Terramundi and Jeffrey here make valid points. Still, I’d want to add one more consideration: I think modern history and specifically rulings by international tribunals like the ones in Neurenberg and the Hague have established that the individual conscience ALWAYS supersedes whatever general philososphy, policy, economic reasons or whatever. “The law says, my government says, befehl ist befehl, wir habben es nicht gewüsst and yes: the Bible says so” simply doesn’t cut it if challenged by a truly objective court of law. In my opinion, eventhough it may pose grave dangers to those individuals, ANY individual should search his or her own concience, whether to follow any idea or not, whether to use any part of science or not. Just my two cents worth.

    • terfull

      Atheism has killed millions more.

      • Jeffrey Black

        Can you give an example of where atheism itself demanded the death of someone and an atheist had killed that person?

        Can you even give an example of a type of person atheism declares should be killed?

        If not, you cannot honestly claim that atheism has killed anyone.

        Yes, atheists have killed, but not atheism itself. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god. It has no rules or commands. The same applies to science. The only rules are to deal with verifying facts.

        Religion on the other hand does have rules and commands, such as if a man has sex with a man kill them both as what they have done is an abomination. Their blood shall be upon them. If people follow the religion and kill someone because they follow that, then that religion has killed someone.

        See the difference between them? Religion has rules that declare people worthy of death or call for their death, science and atheism do not.

        • terfull

          Atheists want Christians dead. Just read these posts.

          • Jeffrey Black

            I take it you can’t read?

            Saying that is like saying white people want black people dead or black people want white people dead. It may be true, but the implication is not.

            When atheists kill people, they do it as individuals. Atheism didn’t make them kill these people. They didn’t kill these people to follow atheism.

            When Christians (or followers of other religions kill people), they could be doing it completely separately from their religion. However, they could also be doing it to follow their religion. If someone kills to follow their religion, their religion is at fault as well.

            This means various religions have killed so many people it isn’t funny.

            Atheism has killed no one.

            If you wish to disagree then go and read my post, and do what was requested. Give an example of a command of atheism (which don’t exist) that demands someone’s death.

  • paulo

    Hypocrisy is when you are tapping the emails and phone calls of everyone in the world including fellow presidents and then getting angry when a small country in Africa is peeps into the bedrooms of its citizens.
    Hypocrisy is when you hold people in an island prison indefinitely and without trial and then getting angry when a small country in Africa denies a tiny minority rights to their bedrooms.

    • Marcus Chan

      Why is it always the case that people always use the USA as an example for what bad they are doing and that makes it justifiable for other countries to do horrible things and deny other human beings human rights? Ridiculous

      • paulo

        Just pointing out the hypocrisy. When hypocrisy stops it becomes easy to isolate and condemn wrongs. You can’t laugh with Saudi Arabia which has similar laws against gays and even stops women from driving then pretend to be high and holy enough to condemn Uganda for doing lesser evil. Why can’t USA start by condemning its best buddy in the Mid-East? Why can’t USA start with the man in the mirror? Hypocrisy stinks.

    • Rebecccaaaa

      Are you saying two wrongs make a right? Or just making excuses for this cruel stupidity?

      • paulo

        Yes, sometimes two wrongs can make a right… but not always… just sometimes. For example, Uganda makes a law to kill gays… then USA stops funding Uganda healthcare leading to the death of innocent Ugandan villagers who lack healthcare facilities… Oh no… That is not a good example but that is what USA does. Anyway, a good example is this: A murderer is on the rampage killing people… A policeman goes over to kill the murderer… We know killing is wrong… but in this case another killing has stopped the initial killing making things right.

        • Michael

          Wow you really don’t understand how stupid these comments sound do you. Ok we get it you don’t like America, or its foreign policies, but to write some of these comments? Ah I get it your a troll.

          • paulo

            I love America. That sounds stupid too… You have a sound-detector?

        • Rebecccaaaa

          Why are you boring me with this rhetoric? Did I *really* need to be so explicit as to ask, “Are you saying these particular two wrongs make a right?” Get off the internet and go to bed.

    • Jeffrey Black

      Bullshit.

      One is invading people’s privacy, another is persecuting people because of their sexual orientation and also permitting child rape, and the final one is people who are terrorists, that can’t get tried by the countries court as they do not have jurisdiction and the country that would have jurisdiction doesn’t give a fuck.

      What is shameful is claiming there is a massive problem and then doing nothing about it. The terrorist government of Uganda should be destroyed and replaced by a decent government.

      • paulo

        Destroyed by who. Why hasn’t USA destroyed its biggest ally in the Mid-East – Saudi Arabia… and replaced it with a decent government… The cowards can only challenge the small tiny Uganda… In Saudi Arabia women can’t even be allowed to drive but I don’t hear any sanctions or embargoes. In the eyes of America oil can wash all sins!

        • Jeffrey Black

          Yes, and America is just as bad in some respects as they are discarding the rights of people. America isn’t the only country in the western world.

    • Michael

      Where were you when the rest of us were taught that two wrongs don’t make a right. Yes spying on everyone IS bad, but how does that change saying rape is ok as long as its male on female?

      • paulo

        Exactly two wrong don’t make a right. Start with the man in the mirror.

        • Michael

          ??? I don’t rape anyone, I don’t use violence, I apparently just debate positions with people who confuse me.

          • paulo

            Since when did YOU become the subject of the discussion here. Which are you… The Uganda Minister or the Actor Stephen Fry?

    • EliyahuBenYisroel

      So until mankind finds a nation that is perfect in all its ways, no country has the right to criticize human rights abuses anywhere and other countries are free to commit even the most horrible acts without interference? By your reasoning, the Holocaust was no one else’s business, nor were the atrocities of Pol Pot, Stalin or North Korea.

      • paulo

        North Korea is still no one else’s business. USA is still an ally of Saudi Arabia where homosexuals are killed and women can’t even drive. Hyprocrisy stinks. Remove first the log in your eye before you inspect other people’s eyes for specks.

  • Steve Franklin

    It might be worthwhile to consider the possibility that Christianity, or indeed any other formalised religion, may not in itself be the catalyst, rather it is those that, over the centuries and to present day, have used religion as a smokescreen to carry out wrongful acts and to even advocate them in the name if their patriarch. I see nothing here except a fundamental corruption of humanity towards humanity.

    • Stu

      If only I could have shortened my ramblings on the subject to your short paragraph. Well said…

    • Flap MacDoodle

      good point! christianity is a wonderful idea
      …but with disastrous results

      • Christopher Debattista

        Christianity is not an idea, but faith. However the Ugandan Ministry has mis-interpreted the Bible into extremist forms. Me, as a Christian am terrified of such people since they will give a bad picture to what a Christian really is. And that is a follower of Christ and not of the world.

    • Jeffrey Black

      How do you get these people to have these bigoted views? Christianity, or some other religion. Christianity is the catalyst. If you didn’t have a religion backing the persecution of homosexuality, how many people would be persecuting homosexuals today? A hell of a lot less. This is because they have nothing to defend their bigotry with.

      Christianity is to blame as well as this person.

  • citizen477

    So, who gets to choose which country is attacked by the “gay” establishment? Certainly Uganda isn’t the only nation pushing these, so-called anti-homosexual laws on its citizens, yet the international “gay” movement has chosen to single them out for revilement and rebuke.

    I find it interesting that the gay (i.e.: white, upper-middle-class, mostly-male) establishment has chosen to ignore the fact that many of these countries are receiving financial, legal and technical assistance and support from mostly-white, Evangelical & Conservative think tanks and individuals from the United States and even Canada. Where’s the ire toward them, the actual source of all this foolishness?

    • Michelle

      I think you’ll find it is one of many sad cases that has been used as an example. This one is just more forefront because it compares consensual gay sex to child rape – which is disgusting.

      • citizen477

        Michelle,

        Of course it’s disgusting. My point, however, is that I no longer trust the corporate-run, gay agenda and its propagandists. Why wasn’t the original conversation with Simon Lokodo and Craig Ferguson shown, for example?

        Also, we cannot discuss anti-homosexuality on the continent without putting it in its proper context of white/Arabic-supremacist mythology that was spread throughout that region during the periods of colonialism and Islamic domination. These institutions dismantled — and in some cases, erased — indigenous approaches, philosophies and theologies toward sexuality, which often-times included a pan-sexual perspective.

        • Michelle

          I can’t say why it wasn’t shown – maybe there is a copyright issue, data protection or the footage was destroyed. I do however think the “missionaries” shoved their beliefs down the throats of the people they were trying to help instead of giving them a choice. Misinterpretations were then taken as fact. I know religious people that support gay rights – because they don’t judge people, that is only up to God – so to blame them all for something a few did/are doing is as fair as extremists condemning gays. I think the only way to erase this homophobia is through developing society, and unfortunately a lot of countries need funding from wealthier countries to do this. BUT ultimately showing hate towards people like Lokodo isn’t going to help the situation, yet that is what is happening. I agree with you about the propaganda though, and a lot of people supporting LGBT rights are only doing so to fit in/be different (depending on social grouping) and have no real opinion of their own. You might discover whoever wrote this actually has no idea what they’re really writing about or done their own real research.

          • citizen477

            Michelle,

            You will find that most of the laws being re-implemented in, now, Christianized and Islamicized African societies and any where European and Arabic indoctrination and colonialism are found were on the books from as early as the 18th Century. Brits referred to them as “buggery laws”. Many of the buggery laws (some of which date back to the 16the Century in Europe) were simply spread — as you alluded — via missionaries to the far reaches of the human cultural experience. To suggest that that history or that historical context has no bearing on this now is not fair.

            Ugandans didn’t just get up and decide one day that homosexuals will die. There is a historical backdrop that the media aren’t addressing, at least, not in any substantive way. I mean, it does not surprise me, at least, not any more, since I am learning that the global “gay” agenda is corporate-sponsored.

          • Michelle

            I know they aren’t modern ideas – exactly why I mentioned missionaries. My real point is there is nothing to be acheived from ranting about what happened however many years ago that caused it. Yes we should all be aware where these beliefs and ideas originated, but history cannot be changed.

            To be honest, I don’t know what point you are trying to get across to me – I’m on the same page as you but it seems like you’re trying to have a debate with me. I never said anything against the points you have just raised, having barely mentioned history and I have a feeling you didn’t quite get my point about blaming the many for the actions of the few.

            About the media not adressing the root of the problems – it seems to me they don’t want the people supporting LGBT rights to turn on each other, or point fingers. I do think education and teaching people to think for themselves is crucial though, so people of all faiths interperet their scriptures themselves rather than follow the crowd.

          • citizen477

            Michelle,
            No, I’m not debating.

            What I am suggesting is that to understand the present, we have got to understand the past, so we can fix the present for a brighter future.

            I mentioned the past because, if we (in the West) remembered the history, we wouldn’t be so quick to denigrate developing nations, when part of the problem is rooted in that very history that the West created. That’s all I’m saying. And, of course, by “we”, I don’t really mean the common woman or man like you and me. I’m referring to our governments and institutions of leadership, information, etc.

            It just seems to me that we need more context on this issue. It is easy to continue to view Africa as backward, etc, while giving a pass to the nations or societies that created the mess to begin with.

          • guest

            What a horrible cunt you are. The gay movement is corporate propaganda is it? Go and hide under a 14th century rock you fuckstick

          • citizen477

            See how vile supporters of the gay establishment can be? You demonstrated my point very nicely. Thank you.

    • http://masterceadeus.zzl.org/ Jon Lambert

      I love people who are totally ignorant to what “gay” is. (Sarcasm). Being gay means you have a romantic or sexual attraction to the same gender. Your social class, race, etc. has nothing to do with it. For instance: You see just as many FEMALE LOWER CLASS BLACK gay women as you see MALE UPPER CLASS WHITE gay men. I’m speaking from the perspective of a lower-class bisexual person… Thus proving you wrong about what you thing the “gay establishment” is. And what gay establishment are you even talking about? Yeah, the gay community does a lot–mostly to try getting their own rights in EVERY country. But there is no gay “establishment” that works as a political or social “machine”, like an actual political establishment does. If there’s a gay establishment, then tell me, what are their beliefs? What do they work for? Who makes them up? Who leads them?

      And then, there MUST be a straight establishment. Tell me, what are their beliefs… Who makes them up… Who leads them.. and what do they work for?

      You can’t answer either of those questions under one set of beliefs, members, etc. because no two gay people are going to be exactly alike. No two straight people are going to be exactly alike.

      • citizen477

        They gay movement is being propped up by corporate sponsorship from Wells Fargo to JP Morgan Chase. I am a homosexual man, but I don’t believe that the gay establishment cares about you or me. Unless you are white, upper-middle class, able-bodied and educated, they have no time for you. You better walk lock-step with their agenda… or else! There are to be no cultural nuances nor any kind critical thought. We are to just blindly wave the rainbow flag in fake solidarity. Puh-lease!

        I am a Black, same-gender-loving man… But gay? NEVA!

  • Londoner2000

    Glad to see Fry tackling the massive levels of homophobia outside of countries that everyone usually focuses on like Russia and the US. Nigeria and Jamaica next?

  • Ludba Dimah Ahmad

    Earlier this week President Obama issued a statement saying that he is “deeply disappointed” by the decision, and noting that “enacting this legislation will complicate our valued relationship with Uganda.” Why this stupid President of US busybody about other peoples country? Can’t they just keep their own country safe and sound? I wonder why this US President always bother other country when they themselves have hundreds of problem yet to be solve?

    • Robyn Porteous

      I don’t see how you can sit and complain about his choice to be verbal where others will not or cannot stand up for themselves. Yes, there are many countries in one world. But it’s still one world, and no matter where you or I am from, we are still human beings. If every country took care of itself only, we’d all be in a far worse off state than we are today… It’s through the support and intervention of more equipped and able countries like America, that developing countries can play catch up and step into the 21st century on issues such as child labour, women’s rights and the rights of homosexuals. I’m not saying I support every invasion or war America has taken part in, but you cannot fault the man for speaking up and warning the President of Uganda that his policy is not only wrong, but one that will damage his country and its international relations. Stop being so close minded and look at it as a human factor! People standing up for those who cannot stand up for themselves!

    • KietaZou

      Any excuse is good enough for a bigot and a fool like yourself.

      • Ludba Dimah Ahmad

        When you said I am fool..you’re worst than me..ek?

  • Ludba Dimah Ahmad

    They may help this under developing countries by giving them all sort of help, but that doesn’t mean they can interfere their personal affairs! Helping doesn’t mean they can control everything in hands. When come to policies, they had their own right to perform their duties!

  • Odd Jørgensen

    was pleased to see the Norwegian gov halted the flow of aidmoney to Uganda monday,at least some countries seem to do the right thing in the face of these barbarians.

  • Ken F.

    Wow, that place is back ward as all fuck. What is going on with Uganda?! The laws against gay people there are insane and this is also completely inexcusable. I dont want a damn dime of my Tax money going their GOV. I wish there was a way to get the few good people out of that place and just start over else where. Just unbelievable.

  • Wan Lee

    Bubonic plague is natural, cancer is natural… what the hell is his point?

  • Jacob Theunisz

    What I don’t understand is who made this man a bishop. And who gave them the authority, even to have him as a priest. Finally if this man is minister of Ethics and integrity, I would rather be considered as unethical and having no integrity. I am A Reader in the Church of England.

  • Trader

    To imply Lodoko was implying heterosexual rape is morally superior to consensual gay sex demonstrates the toxic nature of fanatical secular humanism.

    This article is clearly just trying to blast Christianity and smear its name with child rape alongside homophobia.

    Anyone who knows anything about Christianity would know that all Sin is unacceptable to the Christian God. Whether its stealing a pen from your friend at school, or mass murder, Sin is Sin. Whether it is child rape or queer sexual relations, sin is sin.

    Christian morals are on a whole nother level than secularist humanist ones, why even try and compare them when they’re morally and ethically incomparable.

    This article is a load of shit.

    • ViertelvorNope

      Why *imply*? He was pretty starightforward about it.

      • Trader

        except not

        • ViertelvorNope

          You read a different article from the one above, I’d say.

          • Trader

            I’d say we read the same article, but what we understood from it based on our preconceptions was entirely different.

    • Vegard Pettersen

      Except slavery, because that’s a-okay for jeebus.

      • Trader

        what makes you say that ?

    • Michael

      Maybe this is why people have a problem with religion. If people rape children or if two people who have consensual sex its the same thing. What if maybe your wrong? Maybe we should worry about the rapist and so long as gay people are not raping people they get a pass. Isn’t your book big on not judging? Don’t you think Jesus will get angry if you keep doing these thing that he told you not to do?

      • Trader

        Maybe if people who had a problem with religion actually took a moment to study religion and what it says about rape and judging, and what jesus does and doesn’t like, you wouldn’t be asking that question.

        • Michael

          Ok I have read the bible (and been told that just reading it is not the way to understand it) is studying it where you take out all the bits like.

          (Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

          Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

          or how about these,

          (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)

          Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

          Clearly Moses and God approves of rape of virgins.

          (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)

          If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

          What kind of lunatic would make a rape victim marry her attacker? Answer: God.
          Finally try these gems, I wont post the whole passage

          (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
          (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
          (Judges 5:30 NAB)
          (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
          (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
          Yep a real moral book you got there.

    • Fiona

      I’m sorry to say but isn’t swearing against Christianity morals as well? So in your defense of Christianity you have just ‘sinned’ yourself!

  • Melissa Limbury

    Yes, it IS natural! For a sub-human piece of excrement throwback to the dark ages.

  • Jenkem Huffington

    Who are we to try to enforce our cultural norms on these proud people?

    • UnoNoone

      Rape is rape, there is no where in the world that rape should be seen as morally acceptable – “who are we trying to enforce “cultural norms”?” Who are we if we do not? Who are we if we do not stand up for women and girl childrenand say “This is NOT acceptable” and you are wrong Mr Minister for Ethics and Integrity.

      • Jenkem Huffington

        Nobody stopping you from heading over to Uganda and trying to civilize these primitives. 400+ years of western cultures trying to build civilizations for these “people” and pouring billions of dollars in resources to try to teach the proverbial pig to tapdance, and the minute westerners stop intervening it’s right back to decay, depravity, and barbarism.
        I’ll wager you’re the same socialist that will use that exact same line if I were to demand an immigrant to the west conform to our societal norms here, yet you’re ready for “us” intervene. And by “us” I expect you mean “somebody else” because YOU are not there to try to force your idea of right behavior on these savages.

        Really I’m quite glad you took the bait there because I saw this one was going to be a cesspool of hypocrisy.

  • Jack Dee

    So ask him how many men he’d like to rape his daughter?

  • Spoko44

    can someone order this guy to be killed…it wont be a sin

  • Spoko44

    I hope these powerful countries wont just standby and watch ,they will put up a fight against this f#^&d up piece of work