L’AFFAIRE FLEW

Was Tony Flew’s “conversion” book ghost written by a religious apologist? It wouldn’t surprise me at all. Pious frauds and forgeries have a long history, dating back at least to the Donation of Constantine. But, really, what does it matter if Flew did convert to some form of deistic belief? Many atheists, including yours truly, were once devout Christians. Of course, being less famous than Flew, we have less propaganda value, but the fact remains that conversions go both ways. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that there are more net conversions from atheism to theism or deism than going the other way. What would that prove? Nothing at all. The spectacle of Habermas, Varghese, and their ilk parading Flew as their prize captive is both meretricious and pathetic. Maybe the fact that they are so desperate to score a PR coup over atheism shows what a bad light has recently been cast on their brand of religion (see my earlier post reviewing Michelle Goldberg’s Kingdom Coming). Besides, Flew most definitely did not become a Bible-believin’, hosanna-singin’, born-again fundamentalist. Flew, in their book, is still a hell-bound sinner. If one of their own, J.P. Moreland, say, were to convert to a deistic position such as Flew’s, then Habermas, Varghese, et al. would join their voices in a chorus of condemnation to hiss him as an apostate.

About Keith Parsons
  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12126023605395414714 Frank Walton

    No, genius, we wouldn’t hiss him. Sure, a non-Christian is an apostate, but we don’t go disrespecting someone for the mere fact that they’ve converted. Nor do we bring up conspiracy theories that Flew had absolutely nothing to do with the book. That’s for people like you to do.

    Antony Flew had everything to do with the book. Get over it.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    Here is the official press release site for Harper Collins.

    Press Releases

    Why doesn’t Varghese simply state ‘Flew wrote that and that section of the book’?

    Because he can’t.

    I wonder if Frank would like to buy some blank canvases signed by Salvador Dali that I have painted on…..

    Why doesn’t Flew’s book discuss Flew’s interest in the doctrine of eternal torture?

    Why doesn’t Flew’s book discuss in any detail what deism is?

    Because then the book would represent Flew’s interests and beliefs.

    And that would never do, would it?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    ‘There Is a God: How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind ‘

    Antony Flew approved the title calling him ‘The World’s Most Notorious Atheist’?

    Really? ‘The World’s Most Notorious Atheist’ is what Antony Flew calls himself?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12126023605395414714 Frank Walton

    First of all, Steviepoo, I doubt you even made the above comments. Keith Parsons and his organization held you down and forced you to make that comment, didn’t he? Can you prove to me that that actually didn’t happen? Also, you may want to rethink what Flew said here:

    “My name is on the book and it represents exactly my opinions. I would not have a book issued in my name that I do not 100 percent agree with. I needed someone to do the actual writing because I’m 84 and that was Roy Varghese’s role. The idea that someone manipulated me because I’m old is exactly wrong. I may be old but it is hard to manipulate me. This is my book and it represents my thinking.”
    (11/7/2007):

    It just had to have been made up by Antony Flew’s agent, I tell you! It just had to be! It’s all such an elaborate conspiracy!!!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    Welly welly welly well, hello there, “Frank Walton”.

    “Nor do we bring up conspiracy theories that Flew had absolutely nothing to do with the book.”

    Even for a dishonest theist like yourself, that would have been a pretty stupid move, don’t you think?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/03743116454273042629 Sheldon

    I have found it is just best to ignore Frank Walton. He is childishly obnoxious and insulting.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    Frank seems to think Flew wrote a book calling himself ‘The World’s Most Notorious Atheist’

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    Stalin? Mao? Pol Pot?

    The winner of the title of ‘World’s Most Notorious Atheist’ goes to – Antony Flew!

    Sadly, Antony Flew cannot be here in person tonight to collect his award, so Abraham Roy Varghese and Pastor Bob Hostetler will make a speech on his behalf.

    Later, Harper Collins will issue a press release (exclusively distributed to Amazon.Com book reviews), announcing how one of their authors beat off the competition for this prestigous award.

    Madalyn Murray O’Hair was not avaiable for comment.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12126023605395414714 Frank Walton

    ku klas_klazon,

    Welly welly welly well, hello there, “Frank Walton”.

    “Nor do we bring up conspiracy theories that Flew had absolutely nothing to do with the book.”

    Even for a dishonest theist like yourself, that would have been a pretty stupid move, don’t you think?

    *SHRUGS* No. It’s true, atheists are actually making a case that Flew had nothing to do with the writing of the book, and that Christians manipulated him in putting his name on the book in the interest of spreading the Gospel. Dude, you atheists have to drop the conspiracy theories. Leave that to Oliver Stone, please.

    Sheldon,

    I have found it is just best to ignore Frank Walton. He is childishly obnoxious and insulting.

    Oh, behave.

    Steven Carr,

    Frank seems to think Flew wrote a book calling himself ‘The World’s Most Notorious Atheist’

    Wow, you got me there, Stevie! I’m sorry, okay, I’m convinced. Varghese and Habermas and then some wrote the book. Flew had nothing to do with it. Especially the part where he… oops, I mean they wrote,

    “The subtitle, ‘How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind,’ was not my own invention. But it is one I am happy to employ, for the invention and employment of apt yet arresting titles is for Flews something of a family tradition.” (p. 1)

    *GASP* It just makes so much sense now!

    Honestly, Stevie. You should just try reading Flew’s book instead of taking name-dropping Richard Carrier’s word for it.

    Hugs and kisses,

    Frank Walton

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    Frank is so naive.

    If Varghese was telling the truth, then he would be sueing Carrier at this moment.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    The famous Flews family tradition of apt yet arresting titles…..

    ‘New Approach to Psychical Research’

    ‘New Essays in Philosophical Theology’

    ‘Essays in Conceptual Analysis’

    ‘Hume’s Philosophy of Belief’

    ‘Logic And Language’

    ‘God and Philosophy’

    ‘Evolutionary Ethics’

    ‘An Introduction to Western Philosophy – Ideas and Argument from Plato to Sartre’

    ‘There is a God – How the world’s most notorious atheist changed his mind’

    Can Frank spot the odd one out?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    “*SHRUGS* No. It’s true, atheists are actually making a case that Flew had nothing to do with the writing of the book, and that Christians manipulated him in putting his name on the book in the interest of spreading the Gospel. Dude, you atheists have to drop the conspiracy theories.”

    Frankie Boy, congratulations for not understanding a word of what I said!

    However, that Flew had very little to do with “his” new book seems like a rather reasonable assertion judging from the fact that Christians throughout history have had no problems inventing stories like for example the one about Darwin recanting on his deathbed (which AIG, to their credit, now confesses is not true). And for conspiracy theories, have you not heard of the “oppressed by the scientific community” theory by creationists and IDiots? There’s a world out there for little Walty to discover.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    This press release still has not appeared on the Harper Collins press release site.

    I wonder why not?

    This statement by Flew still only exists on an Amazon.com book review written by the literary agent for Pastor Bob Hostelter.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12126023605395414714 Frank Walton

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    IN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkxpTIbCIw Flew talks about ‘the integrated complexity argument’

    I haven’t come across this argument before.

    Is it like the ‘irreducible complexity’ argument, only Flew has forgotten the name?

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/12126023605395414714 Frank Walton

    Steven Carr,

    Frank is so naive.

    If Varghese was telling the truth, then he would be sueing Carrier at this moment.

    Oh, Stevie, you got me again! How do you keep doing it? But if Carrier was telling the truth, then Flew would be suing Varghese at this moment.

    *GASP*

    Now, that’s a conspiracy!

    The famous Flews family tradition of apt yet arresting titles…..

    ‘New Approach to Psychical Research’

    ‘New Essays in Philosophical Theology’

    ‘Essays in Conceptual Analysis’

    ‘Hume’s Philosophy of Belief’

    ‘Logic And Language’

    ‘God and Philosophy’

    ‘Evolutionary Ethics’

    ‘An Introduction to Western Philosophy – Ideas and Argument from Plato to Sartre’

    ‘There is a God – How the world’s most notorious atheist changed his mind’

    Can Frank spot the odd one out?

    Well, I’d be happy to but you’ve completely dodged the implications of my previous post why even take you seriously anymore? Dude, Stevie, buddy, you have to let go.

    ku klas_klazon said…

    Frankie Boy, congratulations for not understanding a word of what I said!

    Whatever, Ku Klas Klazon. But you still haven’t even addressed what I said. I would congratulate you on that, but you see, as a Christian I would rather reprimand you. But if you feel it’s okay to congratulate misunderstandings, have it your way.

    However, that Flew had very little to do with “his” new book seems like a rather reasonable assertion judging from the fact that Christians throughout history have had no problems inventing stories like for example the one about Darwin recanting on his deathbed (which AIG, to their credit, now confesses is not true). And for conspiracy theories, have you not heard of the “oppressed by the scientific community” theory by creationists and IDiots? There’s a world out there for little Walty to discover.

    Well, jiminy jillickers, you ever hear about the one where Jean-Paul Sartre had his deathbed conversion? Well, you might want to know that skeptics blamed it on Sartre’s old age. It’s always the old age that converts atheists, huh? Oh, the irony with Flew and Sartre!

    Hugs and kisses,

    Frank Walton

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/11983601793874190779 Steven Carr

    Frank quotes ‘Flew’

    “The subtitle, ‘How the World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind,’ was not my own invention. But it is one I am happy to employ, for the invention and employment of apt yet arresting titles is for Flews something of a family tradition.”

    The book by ‘Flew’ mentions the book written by Flew’s father as part of this Flew family tradition of calling themselves the worlds most notorious….

    The ‘apt yet arresting’ title of that book is ‘The Catholicity of Protestantism: Being a Report Presented to His Grace the Archbishop of Canterbury by a Group of Free Churchmen’

    Very arresting!

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    This comment has been removed by the author.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/05167919397164939103 klas_klazon

    Frankie Boy, my love,

    “Whatever, Ku Klas Klazon. But you still haven’t even addressed what I said.”

    Still not? My my, now that can’t be!

    “I would congratulate you on that, but you see, as a Christian I would rather reprimand you. But if you feel it’s okay to congratulate misunderstandings, have it your way.”

    As Christians, we aren’t equipped with functioning sarcasm detectors, are we, Walty dear?

    “Well, jiminy jillickers, you ever hear about the one where Jean-Paul Sartre had his deathbed conversion? Well, you might want to know that skeptics blamed it on Sartre’s old age. It’s always the old age that converts atheists, huh?”

    A quick glance at what Wikipedia has to say about the matter makes it clear as daylight that we are making ourselves guilty of a little lie here, sweetie pie. There was no conversion.

    But oh, Wikipedia? It’s written by conspiring atheists, isn’t it?

    “Oh, the irony with Flew and Sartre!”

    …and malfunctioning irony detectors seems to be what we Christians have to live with also, doesn’t it, Walty?

    Wet smooches on thy lips (tounge slightly involved),

    Klas

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/13565890121197051580 John W. Loftus

    I commented on Flew’s own description of what he believed soon after he announced it, on my blog.

  • http://www.blogger.com/profile/07613847822506260042 JayBrother

    I’m sorry but “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” is more than I can resist.


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