A reader suggested we have a site forum to foster more in-depth conversations than can be had on posts. It would also let people easily create topics of discussion. I think I’m favorable to the idea. What do you guys think?
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YES!! Since finding this site I have pretty much thought of it as a forum anyway. It is rare to find a Blog with this much “conversation”. I say formalizing the conversation in a forum would be a very good Idea. But I am the noob here so…..
I would like the forum but I imagine it would be more work for you to manage a forum in addition / in place of a blog. I think forums attract more trolls and insults (white supremacist flooding the board with racist tripe, for example). So if a bigger time commitment isn’t in the cards, just leaving the blog is okay too. It is working nicely.
I hear you on the time commitment! But I don’t envision running it alone — I would pick a few regular readers to be forum moderators.
Forums can be fun, but the work load can be quite high (as cello points out).
The trick is that this topic is one that people have strong feelings about. You will get a lot of evangelists looking to save souls or work out their own cognitive dissonance on other people. And you’ll get ass holes like me that love to point out the cognitive dissonance while pointing and laughing.
I’d post on your forum for sure, but I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing.
One positive to forums is the sense of community among the regulars gets stronger. I, for one, would love to meet up at the first unfaithcon and buy Vorjack a beer.
Good idea! I vote in favor.
I only have five minutes here, five minutes there to read anything on-line, and don’t get involved in forum discussions because I don’t have the time to read everyone’s responses, so could you leave regular comments open for fly-by’s like me?
I think it’s an interesting idea, but agree with others that it would be a lot of work (even with moderators).
I’m a regular reader both here and at Friendly Atheist, and I’m pretty sure I found one of the two blogs through the other one (can’t remember which!) and I know you guys occasionally link to one another.
Hemant started a forum there back in February and I’m one of the mods. We don’t get a ton of traffic – about 25-30 regulars who post consistently and then a series of drifters. Anyway, it would be kind of neat to have a joint forum, since FA forum is so young and I imagine there are a lot of readers in common. Just a thought.
Either way, my advice is to come up with good posting guildlines/rules early on and enforce them, because an atheist forum can attract a lot of trolls (and tempers can easily flare on both sides). You know that saying about herding cats and all… :-) Forums, IMO, are only interesting and useful when they’re not a chore to read, having to sort through the spam and flames and giant image-signatures and whatnot.
Did you say beer, Ty?
Hmm.. I’m not sure what I think. I’ve definitely tried to participate in some forums and have felt incredibly frustrated because of the people that take them over, which means that they don’t facilitate new folks participating very well. It could be because the owners of the forums have become far removed, and don’t moderate the moderators. Perhaps there is a style of forum that is better than I have experienced?
Daniel, is there a forum that you have participated in that you have had in mind to model yours after? I just worry that it would become like an exclusive club of regulars that would only detract from the scene here, which I think is great.
I very much agree. Perhaps it is the common forum crap that annoys me more than anything. Signatures, the number of posts you’ve made under your name, the profiles. At least here there’s no fluff. We’re all just a name and what we have to say.
McB, I will happily buy you a beer, too.
I have one forum I participate in regularly. It started out largely writing, fiction, and gaming oriented, then spread out to be all inclusive. It is moderated almost not at all, and lacks many of the problems people note above. However, it started small and has been very good at indoctrinating newbies into the social structure.
It is also not about the lack of a deity.
I also participated in Julia Sweeney’s forum for a while, and it was largely successful I think in spite of the pitfalls. But it was well moderated with clear cut rules on the behavior that was allowed.
BTW, signatures, number of posts, and profiles can all be disabled in most forum software.
@Dutchgirl: Oh, absolutely. This won’t affect blog comments in any way. It would be a separate section of the website.
@McBloggenstein: Really I’ve only had one really positive experience with a forum, and I would model it on that. Good points about it possibly creating an “exclusive club” — really one of the goals would be to create a community where people can talk about whatever they would want.
But if there was an exclusive club, you can bet you’d be in it!
@SarahH: Great points. Absolutely agree about rules. For instance, I would ban images in signature and they couldn’t be more than two lines. Hmm, actually, I think I would disable signatures completely. They’re stupid.
* * *
Great thoughts, everyone!
Personally I know that even though I’m a huge fan of this site, I’d probably wouldn’t have time to look at the forum if you had one. I find it hard enough to keep up with all my RSS feeds without trying to keep track of forum threads too. One of the appeals of this site is the way it’s presented in a quick and easily digestible format. Digging through forums requires much more commitment from your readers.
I think your choice should only depend on what your vision is for this website Daniel. At the moment, it’s got a great character and feel to it for providing excellent atheistic and questioning topics/blog posts. It has a strong sense of the personal touch too, rather than “just another wordpress blog” (yawn). My opinion is that if you create a forum, you’ll be diluting the content and quality of the site which is essential to its success. People will start to post to forum threads instead of posting comments to the articles, and I imagine that I’d notice the difference.
I know this is all conjecture on my part, but I think it’s important to ask yourself why you want a forum and where you want it to take the website. Don’t just tack a forum onto the site for the sake of just wanting to expand it. Have good reason for doing so. The fact that you’re asking us, suggests to me that you haven’t found a good reason yet! :)
By the way, PZ Myers doesn’t need a forum. Are you sure you do?
I think it is a great idea, I am a regular reader and a sometime commented and would certainly be a regular poster.
I worry about this too. But, of course, it could be awesome. There’s only one way to find out! :)
(napoleon dynamite) yessssssssssssssssssssssssss
I would be interested in such a thing. I confess I do not post comments too often as there already appear to be so many. Maybe a forum would better facilitate a conversational atmosphere?
You got my vote for a forum. My help as well if needed.
“But if there was an exclusive club, you can bet you’d be in it!”
Fine. Go have your awesome exclusive club.
I’ll go make my own forum, with blackjack, and hookers.
In fact, forget the forum.
double yessssssssssssssssssssss
Moderating a forum can tax both your time and your emotions.
My opinion? Try it and determine for yourself if such an undertaking is worth your time and effort.
Godlessspeed!
@Andy: Great points. I know this site doesn’t NEED one. We could do without it. But my thinking was it might create a better sense of community for people who want to participate, and also give them a level of content creation, instead of me being the primary content creator. But I’m still thinking it through. I haven’t decided yet.
@Ty: Don’t worry, buddy, you’d be in the exclusive club, too. :)
I’m kind of a one-forum guy. Since 1998 or so, I’ve participated in many forums, but usually only one at a time, or at least, only one at a time in which I make regular posts.
Whatever forum I’m participating in usually becomes my home for the internet, I get used to the people there, and it’s a nice place to start off the day or check in from time to time throughout the day.
Right now my primary forum is the exmormon.org recovery board, mainly geared to those like me who have left Mormonism. It runs mostly atheist, with maybe 10-20 percent of the posters clinging to Christianity.
As you can see, I can ramble on pretty much whenever I feel like it.
If you made a forum here, I’d definitely register, but whether I stuck around would probably depend on whether the forum was consistently interesting.
I see your plans for world domination are advancing Daniel …
(say in that style of Hollywood sinister German accent played by an English actor)
I would be on board.
I don’t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing though…
:-)
Hey daniel,
If you decide to run a forum.. I have extensive knowledge of phpbb3. I run several forums with that software, design custom skins for it.
If you need any help… let me know.
Pascalle
Daniel,
If you decide to start a Forum, I plan on participating. Of course, if it would be too much of a hassle or would detract from the quality of the blog, I would advise you to stay away from it. However, I think it is a cool idea if you or others can manage it.
Daniel,
I think it would be a great idea as I like the tone at which your blog is pitched. Personally I find although Friendly Atheist and Pharyngula (the other two blogs I read) I read are good but they are either too respectful or too hostile. In addition I don’t see the level of ‘conversation’ that you get on UF.
So as other posters have said if you’ve got time go for it and thanks for all the hard work you’ve already put in making this one of my favourite blogs.
I have an unrelated question: how do you change your avatar?
Great idea. Why not?
A forum can be interesting, though I like this blog avenue.
I like the level of conversation here. Some of the other sites are way above my head. The level of sarcasm here is just my speed.
Not being an intellectual, the tone of the conversation here allows me to really think about what a person is saying(writing).
I suppose I would worry about the trolls on a forum. With such a hotheaded debate atheism can be it would be difficult to manage, I think.
Either way, you decide I’d still support you! You’ve made a path for another ex-christian to be more free. And to meet cool peeps….
Vorjack, Ty and McB are all on my party list….
I think a forum is an excellent idea…
I stumbled across this site only recently and I’m loving it
Quoting Lisa S:
“I suppose I would worry about the trolls on a forum. With such a hotheaded debate atheism can be it would be difficult to manage, I think.”
I would find it a challenge to moderate such a forum. Both amusing and interesting to find that middle road between telling people off if they go to far (in a civil manner) and keep the peace so everybody can voice their opinion on something.
Whuiskas
You can only choose your avatar if you have a WordPress account.
If you do have an account, on your dashboard on the left go to “Users” and “Your Profile”.
@Jabster: “I like the tone at which your blog is pitched.”
Totally agree with that. There’s a level headedness on this site which I love. It’s constructive, progressive, and sane (aside from the occasional nutbag), without being too confrontational.
@Whuiskas: “I have an unrelated question: how do you change your avatar?”
Actually, I don’t think you have to have a wordpress account. Just go here: http://www.gravatar.com You can sign up for a free account, and the avatar is tied in to the email address that you post comments with. It all works automatically, so if you go to another gravatar supporting site (basically, anything with wordpress), then your avatar will appear there too. The bonus is that it works with all the posts you’ve already made. It’s great!
@Daniel: “instead of me being the primary content creator”
Okay, so here’s an another idea. Why not invite occasional guest contributions from your readers? There have been many times where I’d have loved to have made a post about something particularly pertinent to the subjects on the site, but alas, I don’t have my own blog at the moment, and I feel that my work based personal website just isn’t the right place for me to promote my world views.
If any particular contributor was able to offer the commitment to the site, then you could possibly set them up as an additional author for the site. I’m sure you’ve seen the Skepchick website? It might be a viable model for UnreasonableFaith. You could even start a podcast!
Oh cool. I didn’t know about Gravatar.com!
thanks andy and mcbloggenstein!
What about your poor, neglected, forgotten Atheist Nexus group?
I know readers here aren’t atheists or agnostics but I believe in the power of numbers… perhaps you could start a discussion or 2 on there and see what arises?
@Matt L: “I know readers here aren’t atheists or agnostics”
Actually, I think a lot of us are. Certainly a good proportion of the regular commenters. Or are you being ironic?
@Matt L: Maybe. But really the goal is to have OTHER people create topics of discussion. When I want to create discussion, I do it here.
@ Andy, actually I wasn’t trying to be ironic , but unintentionally that is true. I forget the word “some”.
@ Dannyboy- I thought as much, but if it was me, I’d want the people centralized to get the most out of the discussions. Since your web log gets more views in an hour than the entirety of my logs, I’ll say do whatever it is you see fit to do.
There is a topic on the Friendly Atheist Forum right now discussing a possible merger between them and UF.
I have been on the FA Forum and it is pretty slow. There is daily activity, but only a few people post a few times each day.
If you don’t want to start something entirely new, and you want to increase your collective audiences, perhaps a merger wouldn’t be a bad idea. You could have your own area of the blog, and FA could have its own area, and you could have a common area. If we could get UF and FA at the same place, I think it would really help both of your audiences. However, this is just a suggestion. I don’t know if the people at FA would even support this, or if you would.
Great Idea I love debating these theocrats.
No harm in trying it out, and there’s no reason you couldn’t close it up if you change your mind!
Something else to throw into the mix:
WordPress.com should have an option to integrate with IntenseDebate soon. I’m pretty excited about the potential to have threaded comments with a voting system. Done correctly, this could benefit the site conversation.
I have extensive experience with SMF (Simple Machines Forum) and would also be willing to help out if needed. There are many ways to control the Trolls and other annoyances on message boards. I should know, as one of the sites I own is geared towards trolls (Hey, at least I’m keeping them off of your site).
The only reason I recommended it to Daniel is that some of these discussions get really large and unwieldy for this commenting format, particularly when trying to respond to one poster in particular. It would be tidier to link the discussion to a forum instead of the linear comments.
Signatures, avatars, can be turned off. Post size can be controlled, image embedding can be disabled, etc. Registration approval helps control the riff raff, as does graduated membership. Users can obtain greater rights the more they post.
Just a thought…
“WordPress.com should have an option to integrate with IntenseDebate soon.”
WordPress is awesome. I can’t wait for that. I can just see the up and down voting now…
“I’m pretty excited about the potential to have threaded comments with a voting system.”
I care less about the voting system and more about the threaded comments. We tend to go off in all directions, and it would be nice to have threads (collapsible?) to keep it all straight.
Can anybody point me towards a site currently using IntenseDebate?
Brilliant idea
I’ve been doing some investigating on adding a forum to one of the sites I admin and came across this plugin to WordPress:
http://simplepressforum.com/
Not sure how it performs, as my implementation is a few weeks out, but thought I’d share.
Jenny
Just for the record! I think this would be a good idea. I commented on it on the FA forums some time back, but it was mentioned there as a possibility for a merger that would go under the name of Unreasonable Friendly Atheist. UFA.
What’s a forum?
It’s not forgotten — it’ll probably happen in a few months or so. LRA, don’t worry, it won’t change the blog at all. It will just be a place readers can go to start their own topics of discussion. It can be really fun.
There’s no pressure to use it. It’s only for people who want to hang out a little more with the rest of the gang. It would also get less drive-bys, and there would be moderators to keep things in check.
I’m the only one in this world. Can please someone join me in this life? Or maybe death…
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Message board.
Ok- seriously not stupid, but what is that? :(
This is an example.
http://forum.friendlyatheist.com/
You sign up, and create a thread, and everyone can comment on it. It’s more a long term thing than a blog, and has more options for the readers to interact. With blogs, only the owner/contributors can start a thread, but with forums, anyone who registers can start a thread.
ok (and I’m in foreign territory here) but does that mean people won’t comment on Daniel’s excellent articles any more? (If so then I object!)
I mean, the titles of the folders on that forum don’t look very informative… (yes I know, my ignorance is showing!!!)
Well, I can’t predict the future, but…
I’d be extremely surprised if the addition of the forum killed UF. I know that I, personally, would still comment on the blog no matter what. And the blog is more friendly for the drive-by commenters.
In my opinion, the forum is more for we readers to interact with one another better.
But, but, but…. (can you tell that change takes time for me?) I like that our comments are for us and that we occasionally put up with the drive by people.
And that wont change.
It’d just add another facet of communication. :P
Basically, it’d just be another website to go to. One that already has some familiar faces, and can be for some topics that aren’t usually mentioned on UF.
I mean, I just worry that I won’t know where to go or what to do… (I know, I know, ignorant!)
Does not compute!
If it’s anything like Friendly Atheist, I imagine that Daniel would include a link to the forum somewhere on UF’s page.
Well, I guess I just have to ask you about how to do this forum thing in the future! Can I rely on you?
You know you can. :)
Of course, that all depends on if it’ll actually happen. >> It was a couple months ago that this was being discussed, and then it was forgotten.
That sounds like a great plan, Daniel. I also think the environment for it has much improved since you brought this up originally, since we have so many more people here. I like the concept, and I hope something works out.
Daniel-
I’ve been thinking about this for a few days. I figure that I won’t have to keep making the same arguments and posts if there is a central location to comment on things. Sounds like a good idea! (but I’m still going to have to ask Sock or you about how to do it!)
:)