by VorJack
I’ve been told that Darwin’s Origin of the Species is the atheist Bible. That strikes me as odd, since most atheists never read it. And why, when our understanding of evolution has changed so much in the past century, and there are so many good modern treatments?
I’ve heard it said that the books of Dawkins and Hitchens are atheist scripture. I haven’t read most of these either. And I’ve heard almost as much criticism of the “four horsemen” coming from atheists as theists.
And it’s all kind of silly anyway, because “atheist scripture” makes about as much sense as “atheist creed.” If it were real, it would have to be very short.
But if we’re going to have to listen to people go on about “atheist scripture,” because, of course, “atheists are just the same as theists,” then I submit that we should get to choose our own scripture. No group allows its scripture to be defined by their opponents. The Shepard of Hermas and the Epistle of Barnabas were once very popular Christian writings, but no atheist demands that Christians accept them as scripture.
So what exactly should be atheist scripture? If we’re expected to read it, I’d like something entertaining. It should be complex and voluminous, so that there’s lots of nice contradictions that keep us from being cornered. And since this is all a bit ridiculous, it should be something less than serious.
I nominate the works of Terry Pratchett. Or, as the elect refer to him, pTerry. (and five geek points if you remember that joke.)
A reading from the books of Pratchett – taken more or less at random. Thief of Time:
They were not bad men. They had worked hard on behalf of the valley for hundreds of years. But it is possible, after a while, to develop certain dangerous habits of thought. One is that, while all important enterprises need careful organization, it is the organization that needs organizing, rather than the enterprise. And another is that tranquillity is always a good thing.
And here we see that pTerry has anticipated the problems currently faced by the Catholic Church, at least in part. The problems were exacerbated by men who wanted to protect the organization rather than see scandal shake things up. The organization was placed over the mission of the Church, and tranquility was valued over justice.
Truly, all wisdom is found in the works of Pratchett. Thanks be to pTerry.
“I’ve been told that Darwin’s Origin of the Species is the atheist Bible. That strikes me as odd, since most atheists never read it.”
Yep, same as with Christians and the Bible. What’s your point?
So you mean you blindly believe Darwin’s Origin of the Species without asking questions and deny all new papers that would indicate that there are some issues? You would yell that Origin of the Species is the only true book and the truth and that all else is blasphemie?
That would be as bad as religion.
I would happily throw Origin of the Species in the bin if there is new better evidence that checks out with reality. It is unlikely that this will be the case but this book is in no way holy to me.
Oalf -
Your kidding right? The evidence is there you oaf. He said “And why, when our understanding of evolution has changed so much in the past century, and there are so many good modern treatments?” Exactly right after. Did you read post? Comprehend? Can you read?
A good book for any on Evolution is “Why Evolution is True” by Jerry A. Coyne.
Evolution, at least at basic understanding, is understood by most atheists. The bible. I bet there are less than 1% of Christians who have read/comprehended their bible. Even its updated modern form. Thats why they believe. They know not what they do. zzzzzzzz
A good Christian Church is located in Westboro. They have read and understand its meaning. They are every bit as mean spirited, intolerant as the God of Christianity/Judaism/Islam. They are true Christians. The rest of you pick and choose like your God would allow that.
Hey look at it this way. If your God is true(which clearly he is fictitious), you will joining us for infinite torment and fun. Since he is not. Just live your life for you. Its the only one you get. @:-D
Olaf – I am the Oaf. I read further and see I misread what you wrote. I apologize.
No problems. LOL
You stole my line.
I’m glad somebody got the sarcasm ^^
I nominate Douglas Adams.
My reason is that in the HHG “trilogy” the ruler of the universe is as holy as someone could be, without even being holy. And this is just one reason.
Adams had a very deep understanding of the human nature, and managed to be a deeply spiritual person despite being an atheist. He showed me that being religious and being deeply spiritual does not have to be he same thing.
HHGTTG kind of is my “bible.” It’s what I read when I’m in a bad mood, need a laugh, am bored and want to read something, want something familiar, etc. Adams was involved / interested in so many things and always threw himself head-first into them, which is something I admire – if he thought something was neat, he’d read absolutely everything about it. Evolution, ecology, animal conservation (seriously, read Last Chance to See, which he wrote with Mark Carwardine), technology, music… Adams has always been such an important person in my life (I read HHGTTG for the first time when I was about 8) that I have a giant HH-related tattoo.
BTW, Adams was actually a huge fan of Dawkins, and the two got on fabulously. He said ‘Blind Watchmaker’ changed his life.
HHGTTG should be clearly marked as THE bible!
I second this. I find great consolation in the parable of the Babelfish and the parable of the Quest for Ultimate Truth.
Behold the uncanny insight! The name of the priest-like character even sounds like “fondle”! All hail the pure random chance (or in Multiworld theory, the undeniable ultimate probability of occurrence) that gave us Douglas Adams!
I vote for the Hitchiker’s Guide as well, this book is as entertaining as it is profound.
Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly *why* the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.
Agreed, HGTTG is definitely an atheist scripture :)
I don’t know any other person more deserving to be atheist prophet than Douglas Adams :)
I admit that I’ve never read more than snatches of Origin of Species. I’ve read some posts by Dawkins and Hitchens on the Web, but I don’t own, nor have I read, any of their books. Truth is, these guys–their works–are not my guiding lights. And though I have been influenced by a few other atheist authors since, I became an atheist myself before having read anything from any of them. (And, by the way, I read their stuff critically too. I never swallow anything whole.) The book that pushed me into unbelief was nothing less that the Bible itself.
I think most atheists even do not realize that they are atheists. And probably never heard about Darwin too.
It is hard for religious people to understand that atheists need no special book to giuid them. Atheist have control and responsibility over their own life.
I agree. I know now that I had stopped believing some years before I admitted it to myself.
I submit that the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is atheist scripture, since it is actually scripture and only atheists get it.
Oh, I get it, it just isn’t interesting.
I second Terry Pratchett and Douglas Adams. I’ve read all of Hitchhiker’s Guide and some of Discworld. Never read the Darwin o Dawkins or Hitchens.
I follow Google though. Google does have all the answers.
And the one commandment – Don’t Be Evil.
Unless you will lose money over it.
I quite seriously credit the Discworld books as a lifeline that kept me relatively sane and eventually helped me out of a church bordering on cult status – although my path has been more of a Mightily Oats liberal-leaning one since then, rather than atheist. I possibly would never have read the first book if it had been known as atheist scripture though, so perhaps it was good that it wasn’t known as such when I was first given one of the series.
I think after thousands of years of copying with errors and selecting the right canon of works the Discworld series will be a far superior volume than the bible. Think of the organisation of Ankh Morpork with its guilds for all professions. Ive often thought it would be a better system than some of the bananna republics we have operating at the moment. Also unlike the bible it has a solid theoretical underpinning for its miracles and a detailed understanding about the physics of it’s reality. Its not just turtles all the way down
Why it has to be a book? I propose Carl Sagan’s Cosmos.
OOO what a concept. I second that.
But I also propose, since it is old and obscure and no one has read it – “The Age of Reason” by Thomas Paine. It is actually pretty darn good “pamphlet.”
I have to vote for Calvin and Hobbes. Who else then a stuffed tiger and a 6 year old would be better to lead atheist.
If we are opening up the possible media to comics, then I have to vote for xkcd or Farside.
I think this illustrates the case for xkcd quite nicely:
http://xkcd.com/154/
“Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.” My favorite quote from all of Pratchett. He goes on to say that we need to practice on things like the Hogfather and the Soul Cake Duck before going on to really hard things like truth and justice.
I heartily second the nomination of the Discworld corpus. It’s a solidly humanist vision with room for everyone from Mightily Oats, who came through his crisis of faith strengthened, to Granny Weatherwax, who believes in Right and Wrong, not Good and Evil, to Cohen the Barbarian, who stormed heaven to express his dissatisfaction with mortality.
Yes – too would nominate the great Terry Pratchett’s works. ‘Small Gods’ tells me all I need to know about organised religion. The Turtle Moves.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Vobris explanation of the difference between what appear as the truth (i.e reality) and fundamental truth (i.e whatever the church say is truth) and the superiority of the latter is pure gold.
We need a poll for this. Religious truth on the Web can only be determined by anonymous poll.
I completely agree. I am perfectly willing to present the Discworld series as a work I have great faith in, and a great teacher of morality, and unlike every other piece of scripture, a joy to read.
Scripture or not I would recommend reading the origin of species. It’s not that long and surprisingly readable. And while Darwin have definitely got some details wrong due to the state of knowledge in his time on things like genetics and geology its impressive how much of his original arguments still hold 150 years later.
Yeah, but it’s not very exciting. Not too many laughs.
The laughs come later when you hear some creatard making stuff out of it’s a*s that he claim is from the origin.
Y’know, I get that a lot.
The reason is, if we stop to think about it, pretty simple – religious people can’t abide the fact that there are actually folks walking around on two legs, making decisions, living live, drinking wine and eating tapas, having babies and raising them, going to soccer games and board meetings and holding jobs and_____ — all without the ‘benefit’ of constant input from an Imaginary Friend.
“Atheism is a religion!”, I hear. “Darwin wrote your Bible!” “You only believe in yourselves!” I take pains to explain to them that (1) there is no such thing as ‘atheism’ – it’s a misnomer; atheists don’t believe in Imaginary Friends, or the trappings which go with them — including any sort of ‘ism’; (2) we don’t have a ‘Bible’ – or a Q’uran, or a Gita, or….; (3) the only thing we have in common with each other is that we don’t believe in gods of any stripe.
Of course, I’ll have to keep saying this. So will the rest of us. Don’t count on the religious types getting it – because they literally cannot get their mind around this simple set of facts – they have to view everyone within their framework – and if a framework doesn’t exist, they have to create one – complete with a dogma, a creed, and self as a ‘god’.
Explaining this usually creates conflict. I’m used to that, too. Because, once explained, you’ve really shifted their paradigms without benefit of a clutch or a torque-converter. That’s uncomfortable for anyone.
Good point, atheism is not a religion and doesn’t have a “scripture”.
Mad magazine’s not bad.
Atheistm is like the number “0″
Yep, we’re and additive identity.
Not so. Most Christians haven’t read the Bible, have they?
I nominate Calvin & Hobbes
http://atheistsofutah.org/home/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/calvin-and-hobbes_questions_about_god.gif
I second this! Stuffed tigers make far better and more responsive gods than the man in the sky anyway.
My suggestion: The Illuminatus! Trilogy! Without further justification :-p
I think YouTube’s NonStampCollector has it right:
If atheism is a “religion”, then not stamp collecting is a “hobby”.
He doesn’t have to buy non-stamp books to not put his stamps in.
While it is not written universally coherently, “Small Gods” is one of my favorites of his.
Let’s not forget Vonnegut if we are in a nominating mood, and Nietchze just to give the theists someone/thing to claim they were right about(though I’ll admit he doesn’t make a great amount of sense after being rewritten by his anti-semetic sister…but that works for scripture writers so why not). Though I will agree also with Prachett and Adams……..although I am mildly disturbed that there are new hitch-hikers books coming out….I noticed one in the new books section of the library last week.
I don’t see how there can be new Douglas Adams books, he’s been dead for ten years. The in-progress novel he was working on was the last thing to be released, and that’s a good few years old, now. They have been re-releasing the HHGTTG trilogy in conjunction with the film with new covers. Pan Books has also released scripts of the original radio series as well as CD’s of the series. But no, nothing that’s “new” or previously unreleased.
I’m afraid that actually, there are new books planned:
“Children’s author Eoin Colfer has been commissioned to write a sixth instalment of the Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy series” from the BBC – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7619828.stm
This is from 2008 so I guess the book’s bout ready for release now.
Well that’s bollocks. I can’t imagine Douglas agreeing to that. Hell, he barely even agreed to books 3 – 5; they had to be literally pulled from him.
As Atheists, we need no creed, no scripture, no dogma.
I do however, recommend Adams, Pratchett, and Sagan as useful material for those looking to come to terms with their cognitive dissonance (and possibly correct it). If this should fail, at least it’s a good read.
And yes, David B., “Small Gods” absolutely rocks.
The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan
Brethren and sistren, there’s no need for quibble or dispute! Just as the Bible is the work of multiple authors, so also for the atheist “scriptures” ! Pratchett, Sagan, Adams, all the others…all welcome! And anything that seems a bit ‘niche’ can serve as our Apocrapha.
Disc World is great. HHG is great. Mad mag is great. The Jack Reacher series from Lee Child is great. That’s the beauty of atheism – we don’t need a magic book to help us through the day. We’re not worried that ceiling cat will smite us if we mess up. It’s called freedom. enjoy :-)
While not an atheist per se (but most certainly against organised religion, especially Christianity), I consider the collected works of Henry David Thoreau central to my own “personal canon.” But it was reading Carl Sagan’s Cosmos at age 12 that really got me to thinking about things, and helped to inoculate me against a lot of metaphysical silliness.
But none of this really has to do with atheism per se– rather, it is because of my atheism that I am able to largely embrace their writings with a critical mind. Atheism is merely the lack of belief in gods (and, by extension, other supernatural nonsense). Beyond that, atheism really has nothing else to say– atheism is only the beginning of the acceptance of human responsibility. –in my case, a basic humanist outlook (mixed with existentialism and other philosophical ideas) is essential to me.
Someone claiming to be an atheist doesn’t tell me a lot. As an atheist, one could be an Epicurean, a Zen Buddhist, a humanist, a communist, an objectivist, or simply some dude who doesn’t have any belief in gods. There is no “atheist scripture” though I’m sure a lot of religious believers would like to project atheists as a mirror image to their own ideological fanaticism.
The absence of belief is a proposition that terrifies these people because they feel the need to cling to absolutes to define the world they live in. That is precisely why religious fundamentalists NEED “scripture”– it (supposedly) spells out what those absolutes are, a sort of metaphysical rulebook.
Sam Harris, ‘The End of Faith’. Most ‘atheist’ tracts just point out where the Abrahamic faiths are wrong. Harris puts forward a fantastic argument for faith itself being harmful and a childish hangover we need to be rid of.
Now look at what you have done, VorJack! I read this and had to go to Amazon and order some pTerry books…10 of ‘em. Gotta catch up on scripture you know.
Of the six Sir pTerry books that I have read Small Gods is my favorite, and, Thud! is my least favorite.
Now, I had better get Some Douglas Adams down from the shelf to read while I await the arrival of my latest order.
What about Encyclopedia Brown?
No.
The Emperor has no clothes.
Just because his supporters claim we too sport a similar raiment doesn’t mean we have to humor the little assholes and join their game of make-believe.
No for me on the scripture, thanks. Scripture leads to rules of adherence, interpretations, other preferable interpretations, excuses. I don’t think atheism is something that needs to be divided between our atheism and theirs, the right way and a lot of wrong ways, a real atheist and not a real atheist. Reading may be to some advantage, but measuring people according to how well they understand what they’ve read or agree with what is written is not. That’s why Christianity is so messed up – they have a book! It’s not that they have a god, their god is the book! Hasn’t done them any favors. Or us.
Thats a lie! The bible is not our god it is Jesus whom we serve. The bible is a written guide to direct us is the path of righteousness instead of destruction. And God has done far more great things for the whole world that we would ever know. And God loves u even when u are in sin whether u kno it or not. Jesus is very real my friend, how else would u be living this day? God created u, worship the Creator.
read Psalm 14:1
“And God loves u even when u are in sin whether u kno it or not.”
He loves me so much he wants to send me someplace for eternal torture?
Brave New World – Soma – enough said.
Soma is a hallucinogen that takes users on enjoyable, hangover-free “holidays”, and it was developed expressly for this purpose. It is also stated that it replicates religious experiences, eliminating the need for religion.
Euclid’s Elements. Universal Truth of the highest order.
Bummer about the parallel postulate. :-b
So there is no Atheist guidbook “How to become the perfect Atheist”?
Your guidebook in three words – “Don’t believe fairytales” ;-)
I would have to go with David Cross’ “I Drink For A Reason”
I think the “His Dark Materials” trilogy makes a nice addition to the shelves, alongside Pratchett, Adams, Sagan and the oft-suggested “Four Horsemen.”
Okay you need a poll!
We obviously need a Bible, not just one book. I recommend the following books, appropriately edited, distorted, translated, and chopped up into chapters and verses:
Scooby Doo (abbr. Scooby)
Age of Reason (abbr. Reason)
Calvin and Hobbes (abbr. Cartoons)
The Demon-Haunted World (abbr. Candle)
Origin of Species (abbr. Apes)
The God Delusion (abbr. Dawkins)
Discworld (abbr. Disc)
The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy Trilogy (abbr. I, II, III, IV, and V Hitchhikers)
Necronomicon (abbr. Necro)
A Brief History of Time (abbr. Time)
The Gift of Death (abbr. Others)
Of course, we will need a deuterocannon, with such works as:
xkcd (abbr. xkcd)
The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (abbr. I Noodles or Pasta)
Philosophie Zoologique (abbr. Giraffes)
The Elegant Universe (abbr. II Noodles or Strings)
A Clockwork Orange (abbr. Bog or God)
Naturally, much of the deuterocannon will totally contradict the cannon proper, and most atheists can adamantly reject those as being the word of No God, while others declare that they are. And of course the last of each is so confusing that we can pretty much claim a given verse means whatever we want it to.
Darwin’s theory is a complete lie from Satan. We never evolved from out of the water, monkeys or nothing like that. We created directly by God and for God (Genesis 1) He created us in His own image. Please people do not fall for satan’s evil lies. Satan doesnt want you to know the truth. Even though scientists shows facts about humans “evolving”, the truth always over rules facts. Jesus is the Truth, the Way and the Life.
Even though scientists shows facts about humans “evolving”, the truth always over rules facts.
Damn, you’re stupid.
Evidence please.
The Dumb is strong with this one.
“. Jesus is the Truth, the Way and the Life.”
He must mean this website. http://www.truthbook.com
It’s got the word TRUTH right in the name.