News came out on Tuesday that the Church of England (CofE, what Americans would call the Episcopal Church) have decided to go ahead and ordain women bishops. To a secular person, that doesn’t seem like a big deal – gender discrimination is, after all, illegal in Great Britain – but to many in the Church, this seems to be a herald of doom. Some high-ranking “traditionalists” are even threatening to convert to Catholicism:
Bishop Broadhurst, who is the chairman of the Forward in Faith organisation, declined to say whether he would leave the Church of England, because he said he needed time to talk to the priests under his pastoral care.
“My organisation has 1,000 priests and about 8,000 lay people in it. None of those priests are happy,” he said.
“Now people have to decide whether they will knuckle under – if they do, that is not a very happy situation for them or the Church – or whether they’ll go, or whether they’ll just defy it, and I can see that happening with many people.”
Part of me finds it hard to suppress a little soupçon of glee over this; as an atheist it confirms some of my opinions of religion in general so very nicely – particularly that some people simply use religion as a cloak for bigotry and that their bigotry is far more important to them than any faith they might profess. Most of me, however, finds it deeply sad that the laws of my country still permit exemptions from anti-discrimination legislation on religious grounds, effectively allowing organisations like the CofE to remain decades behind the rest of society in their attitudes towards equality and fairness.
Background story from the BBC.
Main story from the BBC.
I would think that the liberal branch of the CofE would be GLAD to be rid of the hateful bigots and encouraging them to leave. Good riddance and all.
So they don’t want women in positions of authority in the Church of England. Who’s in charge of the Church of England?
Rowan Williams, archbishop of Canterbury.
I thought the queen is the official head of the CoE.
In name, but it’s much like she’s head of the government – as soon as she tries to exercise any authority, she won’t be anymore.
Indeed – we bumped off King Charles for getting too pushy with the Parliament!
Seems my joke fell rather flat…
Ah, sorry! I lost a very dear friend this week, so my sense of humour is not at it’s magnificent peak.
There are so many deep issues tied to why they can’t let go of bigotry, and when they tie it to their faith then not only do they not have to try to work it out, but they justify themselves whole heartedly in it. It’s a sad trap. They are in bondage to their belief. They don’t have to let go of their faith if they let go of this issue, but they don’t know that, yet. I say “yet” because I used to be in that crew( not the CofE just a christian against women in leadership), but have had my blind eyes opened with faith still intact. There is hope for those that have ears to hear.
It seems to me some of what keeps the religious so against women is a great amount of blame for their sins is put on her. Men have naturally a lot of lust toward women and are made to feel so much guilt for it that they get mad at her. Kinda like when someone says.”You make me so angry!” No, you choose anger, your emotions are yours. Equally, men seem to feel, “You make me so lusty!” People, women included, blame women for mens constant lust. So then women are bad, untrustworthy, with little character, or value.
Men were given this beautiful drive toward women on purpose and can enjoy it without guilt when channeled in healthy directions, releasing them from the need to be angry at women for their uncontrolled desires toward them.
This idea is just a tip of the iceberg concerning the issue but an interesting one to me.
Your blog just gave me opportunity to voice some of my thoughts on the subject. I’m just thinking from my experiences and observing people and myself.
I really like that, dude. Gonna try to live by it more, I think.
I don’t know that emotions are necessarily “chosen;” they are too visceral. Though, I do agree they are completely owned by the emoter.
Yes I guess I am talking about what you choose to do with them. So if you gut reaction is anger or desire you have the choice wether to go with it or not. So that’s the point in which I’m speaking of choosing your emotions.
I like the way Jchai explains in in the comment just below this one. Much better description then mine.
Then you might like to try “The Handbook to Higher Consciousness” by Ken Keyes, Jr. It may be a hokey new-agey name for a book, but the main kernel of wisdom in it is that the world doesn’t cause your feelings, your own mind does. It includes some methods to retrain your mind not to trigger fear and anger as often. Those methods were a partial success for me as I was able to reduce (but not eradicate) some of my own triggers of fear and anger.
Sounds like an interesting read. Thanks for that.
Marnee, interesting ideas about lust there. You say ‘Men were given this beautiful drive towards women on purpose’. You don’t have to go far down that line of argument to end up at homophobia. Or do you have a way of avoiding that?
Should point out, I do like the idea of viewing lust as a positive thing.
(should also point out that I added this comment as a reply to someone else comment by accident below… oops :-) )
Hi Tony,
I was thinking in terms of male/female relational issues in reference to the subject of why religious people have issues with women, so it didn’t occur to me to think on down the line of how mens lust effects homosexual relations.
Could you explain how you see it going down that direction in a negative way toward homosexuals, and maybe I can think about it or clarify where I was coming from? :)
Is it in saying that “men were given this beautiful drive toward women?” If so, I was thinking of their lust when directed toward women becoming a negative issue toward women. It doesn’t seem to touch the issue of homosexuality in men because the issues are different in the church with that subject. The discussion was on the church being behind in it’s treatment of women.
But you can say like this too….. men seem to be more lusty then women and that’s okay if they let it channel into healthy ways. And by healthy I mean ways that aren’t harmful or destructive to anyone, himself included.
Sexuality and gender relations is a many faceted subject that I don’t claim to know expertly. I was just thinking on some possible whys of what we do.
I try to explain that thinking to my children when they are fighting and one says to me, “He’s making me so mad!” Little brothers, are hard…lol! Good practice in dealing with all the annoying people you’ll come across in life though…lol!
Oh and I’m a chick not a dude, though my husband calls me dude sometimes, using it as a general habitual term. lol. “Dude! check this out!” …”Babe I’m not a dude, I think you know this.” LOL!
Sorryy dude, everybody’s dude to me :-) It’s a form of gender equality ;-)
Duuude! You gotta check out the rack on this chick.
Oh wait!
(Waits for sexual harassment suit!)
Lol! You dudes are funny! :D
I don’t care if you call me dude, I was just clarifying my gender. :)
Meh, women on the web is a myth.
Everyone on the Internets is a hairy old fat man.
LOLOL!! :D
With big, fat, old manboobs :D
I laughed when I read this the first time, but just went away. So when I came back and it was still up on my screen it made me laugh again, so it deserves an LOLOLOL!
Isn’t it fun when seriousness can digress down into just hilarity? or maybe the hilarity is going up from seriousness not down.
No I’m…..
Aw crap, I am too.
Some high-ranking “traditionalists” have already converted to Catholicism. Among them that despicable whore Ann Widdecombe.
Not a fan then?
Dude, Ann Widdecombe converted to catholicism nearly twenty years ago.
Which is a sign of how long the church has taken in making up it’s mind about this…
@matt – if you have not seen the intelligence squared debate, enjoy Widdecombe getting absolutely slaughtered….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY-mNbTxcb0
Yeah, I watched this one a while ago Fry and Hitchens went to town on it and ended up with more support at the end than at the beginning.
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So, know it is going to be ok for two priests (a man and a woman of course) to have (non-anal) sex (only in order to procreate)?
grrr… it would be easier to make jokes without all that crazy “moral” rules about sex
Marnee, interesting ideas about lust there. You say ‘Men were given this beautiful drive towards women on purpose’. You don’t have to go far down that line of argument to end up at homophobia. Or do you have a way of avoiding that?
“threatening to convert to Catholicism”
funny – one recipe of brainwashing doesn’t quite work for ya so why not try another flavor of brainwashing? I tend to be very bland in my thinking summarized in this quote, from one of my favorite movies:
“Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something…..”
<3 Princess Bride
“deeply sad that the laws of my country still permit exemptions from anti-discrimination legislation on religious grounds”
Yes. If someone is getting paid to do a job, it must be open to all qualified persons, regardless of sex.