The Salvation Army has banned Harry Potter & Twilight toys because they are “not in line” with Christian principles:
The Salvation Army says it refuses to distribute Harry Potter and Twilight toys collected for needy children because they’re incompatible with the charity’s Christian beliefs.
The policy has alarmed a Calgarian who volunteered to sift through a southeast warehouse full of unused, donated items and was alarmed when he was told by Salvation Army officials that the two kinds of toys are “disposed of” and not given to other charities. [...]
The Sally Ann refuses to distribute the Twilight and Harry Potter toys because of their wizardry, vampire and werewolf content, said Capt. Pam Goodyear.
“The Salvation Army is based on Christian principles, so these things are not in line with those,” said Goodyear.
I wish bell ringing was against Christian principles.
(via)
When you ask for donations and then throw them away it seems like Theft to me.
I think it may be some kind of fraud. It will be interesting to see if this diktat came before or after the toys were collected – did they let people put them in knowing they would be thrown away? That would certainly raise some legal issues. And of course, ethically speaking, this utterly fails when understanding the concept of charity, especially Christian charity.
If someone donates a variety of food to a soup kitchen run by Jews or Muslims, and they run out of everything but the pork, how well would it go down if they threw that pork away rather than feed the hungry? And the sad part is, this reactionary nonsense does not even have a shred of a foundation. Harry Potter is largely secular, with the only religious aspects being positive but vague references to Christmas and Easter. Twilight is bloody Christian fiction!
It’s waste at least – and they can’t give it to the ppl in need because its against their principles? Why not give it to other charitable institutions of the non Christian kind or that do not take offense of any other sort?
Would they also throw away things from Jewish or Muslim donors when the gifts were somewhat related to the respective religion?
This is also a kind of censorship.
I guess lots of children in need would be happy to have a doll or whatever merchandise of the series with the guy who’s not to be named…
And by the way: Not too long ago ppl were burned by the Church for being witches and such. And one of the Christian Saints slayed a dragon. So clearly witchcraft and dragons exist for the believers.
And why is Halloween still allowed? Ppl (mostly children) dress as witches, monsters and other things. The Church doesn’t ban that?
I guess they only expected True Christans (TM) to give to their charity. Because, obviously, atheists and other satan worshippers (= religious but not Christian – or not the right flavour of Christian) wouild never really give without wishing to corrupt the poor children who would get the gifts.
I’ve always dropped coins in the buckets when I pass by, and taught my children to do so also, but no more. Plenty of other charities to support. ITA Sunny Day – theft is exactly what it is.
Yet stealing pagan holidays & rebranding them under false pretenses is a very Christian principle.
I wish there was a like button
JohnMWhite likes this.
+1
*like*
me too
If it’s not theft to take a donation knowing that you will throw it away – then it’s certainly immoral. The Sally Ann has shot itself in the foot and has lost all respect I had for it. And all for the sake of some crazy religion!! Grow up and learn to live with the world we live in, which is changing – and you’re not (S.A). Anyway I’d rather live in a Harry Potter world than one where there’s a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father and can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because some rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree… yep, Christianity makes a lot of sense.
“there’s a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father and can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because some rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.”
I love this! Can I use it?
That’s some very old pasta, so you don’t need atheistical’s permission.
It’s much better than the anti-atheist counterpoint (something about how “nothing happened to nothing, which exploded,” etc.).
It’s much better than the anti-atheist counterpoint (something about how “nothing happened to nothing, which exploded,” etc.).
One of my favorite retorts.
Well, that’s irritating. I usually donate my superfluous stuff whenever I move to the SA, not least because they are generally good about turning the stuff around and doing some good with it, but also because they tended to keep their religious proclivities away from their material policies. If that’s changing, I may need to find another venue.
Salvation army’s official position:
Marriage is “one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others.”
“Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex.”
“…Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life.”
“There is no scriptural support for same-sex unions as equal to, or as an alternative to, heterosexual marriage.” (The Salvation Army position statements: http://tinyurl.com/83lz86)
In 1986, the Salvation Army gathered signatures against the repeal of a New Zealand law criminalizing homosexuality. (http://tinyurl.com/2vfpvba)
In 2000, the Salvation Army in Scotland spoke out against the repeal of Section 28, which prohibited schools from treating homosexuality as acceptable. (http://tinyurl.com/yb4hvnr)
In 2001, the Salvation Army secretly made a deal with the Bush administration to exempt them from local ordinances outlawing discrimination against gay people. The deal fell through when internal SA documents were exposed by the Washington Post. (http://tinyurl.com/5e3awh)
In 2004, the Salvation Army threatened to close all their soup kitchens and homeless shelters in New York City instead of following an ordinance requiring city contractors to provide equal benefits to domestic partners. Discriminating against gays was more important to them than helping the poor. (http://tinyurl.com/2ef7kdm)
Totally boycott the salvation army. If you’ve got shit you need to give away, give it to goodwill.
Here’s how I found out about there bullshit in the first place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXcSQ6OW6oA
Thank you very much for the info! I’ll be sending my dollars and gifts to other charities from now on.
Thanks! I think this post is a handy bit to put in the kettle (instead of spare change) as you walk by.
I heartily endorse Goodwill and/or the local foodbank.
It was only a local SA outlet in Calgary, and the national SA has been in damage control all day, emphatically stating that they have no such national policy, and Harry Potter toys are perfectly fine.
That’s good to know.
I used to think this was one of the benign Christian charities, but I’m pretty sure they’ve been awful. This may not be a national policy on the HP and Twishlt toys, but they’re not a good channel to put your donations.
Why in particular do you say that?
“but I’m pretty sure they’ve been awful”
That’s not true Kodie, the truth is rather quite the opposite. Over its long and storied history, the SA has literally fed, sheltered, warmed, clothed and generally cared for millions of needy individuals and families who desperately needed help and had nowhere else to turn to in their time of need. I personally know several families who have been positively impacted by the SA’s charitable services.
Its inception is also a heart-warming story about a man moved with sincere compassion for the homeless and under-priviliged in his own community whose vision turned into something far more reaching and beneficial than he ever imagined. It only takes one idea to make a difference. You ought to read up on it, especially this time of year, who knows, you might even enjoy it, it might touch your heart and you will learn the truth about the SA.
Season’s greetings, merry…this time of year to you Kodie.
“Over its long and storied history, the SA has literally fed, sheltered, warmed, clothed and generally cared for millions of needy individuals and families who desperately needed help and had nowhere else to turn to in their time of need.”
… as long as they didn’t put their genitals in the wrong place?
“You ought to read up on it,”
You ought to read up on the Salvation Army’s hostility to homosexuals.
At the expense of the millions, the ‘huddled masses’ over the last 140ish years JMW? I don’t think so, not too ‘reasonable’ there friend. This is what happens when one becomes so polarized, so steeped in his or her own idealogical persuasion and self-serving biases that they can no longer see the pie for the piece.
I neglected to mention disaster relief, human trafficking, prisoner rehabilitation and drug & alcohol rehab among their services. The Salvation Army has long demonstrated enduring compassion and care to millions for more than a century now, have been above reproach in their financial practices, have loved the unloveable, shown mercy upon mercy and you feel compelled, even obligated to take a shot? Bah Humbug.
I don’t think, generally speaking, that morality works like a balance sheet. That an individual or organization does good things does not in any sense erase or balance out that they also do bad things.
Think about it this way: if the Salvation Army were able to do all its good work (millions saved, etc.) and the only cost were that they had to murder one child, would the good that occurs following the murder absolve them? Or consider a hypothetical where the Salvation Army saves millions, but engages in racism; would the millions saved absolve the racism?
I think a perspective of some moral complexity is in order, and the issues (treats homosexuals like crap; benefits many people) ought to be considered separately and one should not diminish the other. For people who are engaging in social change on the matter of homosexuality, it is entirely appropriate to say that while the SA does many great things, they should still be taken to task for their treatment of homosexuals, and given that there are alternative avenues for giving, that it is reasonable to patronize similar charitable establishments that do not engage in objectionable behavior towards homosexuals.
Yes, a little leaven leavens the whole lump doesn’t it?
Quaintly insane.
I think the bolded part is key here. While what you are saying about moral complexity is entirely correct, if there is no other means of giving, that isn’t really sufficient. I mean yes, there is always the alternative of not donating at all, but then you really do have to weigh the impacts of that decision against your support for gay rights.
But as it is, there really shouldn’t be any debate.
Sorry, I gotta disagree. The Salvation Army is almost unbeatable in terms of percentage of donations that make it directly to the needy. They skim almost nothing off the top for administrative costs, unlike many other charities. And for an organization that large that has been around that long, the blemishes on their record are almost non-existent. There have been some complaints on their stance toward homosexuals (though they never use that as a reason to withhold charity), and maybe the odd localized situation like this, but I doubt you could find any charity–secular or religious–that is completely free of complaints.
They are a religious organization, but frankly the world would be a far better place if most religious people had even half the character of the Salvation Army.
“There have been some complaints on their stance toward homosexuals (though they never use that as a reason to withhold charity)”
That’s not really true. See the post from Danny Wuvs Kittens above. I wouldn’t argue with your conclusion, though. Things would be a lot better if most religious people acted more like the Salvation Army… but then what does it say about most religious people if they would be better if they acted more like these bigots?
It’s sort of like supporting the Boy Scouts of America – what sort of stuff do scouts do? It’s generally seen as good work, self-reliance, wholesome activities for boys. One would think that is a nice program to put a boy in to learn his camping and knots, etc. I bought a Christmas tree from them once. The little boy who helped me pick out my tree was an adorable salesman, very polite, and very helpful. But that was before I knew what a homophobic organization it was, and how thoroughly Christian it was, to the exclusion of other religions and atheism.
I had a rather innocent view of the Salvation Army and their deeds earlier today, but I don’t think it’s a good place to put your money. Just because they’re the biggest charity, that’s no reason to consider them the only charity.
Total Income: 113 M
Total expenses: 91M
Administrative expenses: 16% (not bad)
[source: BBB in cache -thanks google-, I can't find it on the web now]
That is so completely retarded. I mean, Harry Potter is obvious, blatant Christian allegory (even more obvious than Narnia, if possible), and Twilight is oozing with LDS references. True, LDS aren’t considered Christian by most Christians, but they’re both religiously-inclined books.
Hey, I wonder if this means you can’t buy Harry Potter or Twilight in their book section? Is Mark Twain unavailable, too? What about L. Ron Hubbard’s stuff?
Harry Potter is obvious, blatant Christian allegory (even more obvious than Narnia, if possible)
It has some allegorical elements, to be sure, but more obvious than Narnia is, I think, a bridge too far. It’s *really hard* to be more obvious about allegorical evangelism and apologetics than Narnia.
In totality that is true, but in specific passages some novels go to even greater lengths. I seem to remember Lord of the Flies occasionally bashing me over the head with Christian symbolism, for example.
But The Chronicles of Narnia are definitely extremely religious, especially Aslan.
I don’t think that religious alegory was deliberate in the case of Harry Potter, I think it was probably coincidental. How many plot devices are there in fiction, really? It’s not an infinite number – sooner or later you can probably find parallels with scripture in any work of fiction. Rowling was raised a skeptic, and I’ve never heard of her having any religious leanings; in fact I’m aware of quite a lot of her charitable work, and as far as I’m aware none of it is done through religious groups (which I would certainly expect if she was a theist of any kind). As for her writing, I find it quite funny that a writer with so little technical ability – her writing is terrible, really, look at it critically for semantic problems and blatant contradictions (do those count as biblical parallels?) – can produce books which are so enjoyable. She can certainly produce interesting characters, situations and stories, anyway.
CS Lewis… Was discussing Narnia last night with my beloved. Narnia was written for the specific purpose of introducing Biblical imagery to children in a more palatable format; Lewis was a late convert and quite evangelical in his religious zeal. But yeah, there’s no secret about it. Read The Last Battle, it doesn’t even have a plot – it’s a couple of hundred pages of RaptureGasm (I particularly liked how Susan isn’t allowed into the heaven equivalent because she grew up and started wearing makeup).
But yeah. Narnia doesn’t in any way deserve the place it has in the collective consciousness of British people of my (and many other) generations. It’s pap.
Nope, Rowling is on record as saying that Potter is Christian allegory-ish.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1572107/20071017/story.jhtml
Sure, but a person can read the whole series and not feel like he or she is being beaten senseless with Christian allegory. A comparable experience would be elusive for a reader of Narnia.
One thing that makes the allegory, if it is present, less blatant is that there isn’t an easy correspondence between characters in Potter and characters in the Biblical narrative. Potter may have come back from the dead, but it is Neville who smashes the serpent’s head. Potter comes back from the dead because of a metaphysical snarl made possible by the power of Voldemort, not Dumbledore (who is as close to a Father stand-in as the tale gets). Hermione has no ready counterpart, and Ron stands in for pretty much all the apostles.
In comparison, Aslan *is* Jesus, the White Witch *is* Satan, the Emperor over the sea *is* God the Father, the old magic *is* the Law, the older magic *is* the Word.
Oh, I agree. I was surprised to read that Potter was *supposed* to be an allegory.
I was just refudiating Custador’s suggestion that the allegory was unintentional. :)
Man, all this stuff brings back memories of the Chronicles. I really have forgotten almost the entire plot.
One significant difference, though, is that Aslan is seen creating a world on his own, which is definitely not a role typically ascribed to Jesus.
Man, all this stuff brings back memories of the Chronicles. I really have forgotten almost the entire plot.
When the first movie was about to come out, I dug out a copy of LW&W to refresh, and *hated* it. When I read them as a kid I liked them well enough (though I always liked Tolkien better), but that was before I was familiar with the Christian symbolism and apologetics. After gaining that knowledge, they become almost painfully unreadable.
re:Aslan and World-building
Good point. I think, though, that that was more of C. S. Lewis screwing up his own otherwise very careful allegory with a bit of fudging than an actual attempt to diverge from the Christian narrative.
The HP books are so much cooler for the world they create, rather than the writing itself. The writing I agree is very poor, but the books, characters and the world are cool. Unlike Twilight.
I never read Narnia (must do!), but the symbolism in the film made me want to throw something at the screen just so it’d stop hitting me over the head with it.
I never read Narnia (must do!), but the symbolism in the film made me want to throw something at the screen just so it’d stop hitting me over the head with it.
In that case, don’t read them in hardcover. You may inadvertently do property damage or injure someone you care about.
I’d reading it digital. I’m hoping my love for my computer to be stronger than my wish to hurt someone or something with it.
@Siberia: I hope you’re not saying Meyer’s writing is any good either…
I’m pretty sure there are no redeeming qualities to Twilight, and as far as I can tell Siberia agrees.
What Michael said.
It was a horrible, horrible experience, Twilight.
I guess I can understand them refusing certain donations( and accept such a policy),but not them destroying those donations they do not believe are in the xtian spirit. Then again why would people be stupid enough to buy and donate things that obviously conflict with the message of the group they are donating to? It’s kind of idiocy in both directions…..hmmm something that seems to be the NEW american way,lol.
This happened in Canada.
I mean, sure, they aren’t a real country anyway, but still, America is not about to take the blame for their stuff too!
I am sure this behaviour is not country specific….and the last line was in reference to US polotics.
Because most people are moderate Christians and/or don’t realize the SA is a Christian charity, and if so, how fundamental they lean as per their policies. Moderate Christians seem to have no problem with the Harry Potter dolls and books, and they might not imagine anyone would. I don’t know when I realized they were even a Christian charity at all. “Salvation” seemed to me to be a word in what they are actively doing – saving people from hunger, just like “Goodwill” says in the name. I didn’t make the connection, not having had a religious upbringing. Once I realized they were Christian, I had an idea they weren’t real pushy about that. I thought they take donations and they distribute them. They have a lot of thrift stores and they ring bells outside stores at Christmas.
I would literally have not even crossed my mind to think they were so thick in it they would throw out HP dolls, or withhold food until everyone was prayed at first. I’d rather not give them my money if someone else could have it, but I also want the world to know, if they do intend to donate toys, they shouldn’t spend their good money on the wrong toys.
They don’t seem to be really heavy on the advertising for their strict beliefs and policies, which keeps donations high. The details have to be ferreted out by an interested party – just like how most people still hold Mother Teresa up as an ideal to compare oneself against (although I hardly think the SA is as bad as her). I have a feeling not too many people are going to blink over this, but not having a published list of disapproved toys makes me feel sick – in good intent, a person has spent money to buy toys for children, and nobody’s going to die if they don’t get a Harry Potter or Twilight toy, maybe they will get one some other time. At least if they want those children to get toys, they should be upfront. Let a person decide if they want to choose another charity or buy an appropriate toy and give it to SA, assured that some child will get the benefit of it. They don’t seem to want people to know how they operate, and that ensures more people will donate to THEM, and throw out a small percentage of toys.
Why not just throw money in the garbage, that just kills me they would do that, probably more than the fact that they don’t approve of these specific toys. If I’m going to spend $12 or so on something for a child and give it to any charity to distribute, please don’t turn around and throw my $12 in the garbage. I would be more pleased to spend that $12 on a different toy so that a child could enjoy it, or in this case, I would like society to be more aware that if they have some idea they still want to donate a toy through the SA, anyway, a child gets to play with that toy. That’s my bottom line here, they aren’t straight with a public who might as well throw money in the garbage.
Kodie Umm it’s the SALVATION army for crying out loud( they have crosses on their uniforms exluding only the volonteer bell-ringers panhandelers), salvation almost always refers to being saved in a religious/christian sense,it has been around for way over 100 years and has never hidden the fact it’s a christian orginization,more specifically a protestant one. Like I said I don’t like what they do with such donationions,but if you are an idiot and do not check out whom you donate money or goods too,that is mostly on you and not them,assuming they do not hide what they are the SA doesn’t hide it at all,try talking to a member.
Look if you read what they put out or listen to what they say,or note that salvation for the group is being saved,as it is mostly used(the word) is about being saved by jesus…as I said they don’t hide this fact,but they do push and advertise it,really if you don’t know that at least assuming you live in north America, well you are well and truly ignorant or stupid to the point I could say not knowing that Einstien not knowing physics.
I don’t know, maybe it depends where you grew up. Their bell-ringers never say anything unless you do talk to them, and I’ve never set foot in one of their thrift shops. I’ve never heard anyone say anything about the inside of their thrift shops except what cool vintage something or other they scored.
And I was very naive growing up – religion was never mentioned in my house, I asked few questions about it, because it never seemed like that big a deal. The word “salvation” to me was explicitly a dictionary definition. They were some kind of charitable safety net “salvating” people from their hunger and need. It was a long time before I actually associated that word to Christian salvation, or this charity with anything other than being nice. That was my impression of them yesterday morning and it was changed dramatically.
I keep telling people I grew up in a world of moderate Christianity, and I think most moderate Christians also believe in salvation. They’re not going to necessarily think any church is bizarre enough to isolate certain toys from their donations and throw them in the garbage before they donate that toy to them. I think most people think their religious experience is typical, and that their ideals are the normal ones when they decide to donate.
How do you think the SA gets to be so big; if people knew how extreme they really were, they wouldn’t be. To do that, you have to be more actively inquisitive, and most people are not. They just drop a dollar in the bucket every time they go in stop ‘n’ shop, and they haul their used items in good condition over to the thrift shop for resale. As for uniforms, I’ve never seen a bell-ringer wearing a uniform, and seeing a cross on a uniform would not frighten most people enough to see what they’re really up to. Just like most people still think Mother Teresa, because she was a nun, and even if they’re not Catholic, couldn’t possibly have also been a total asshoIe.
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oops since the edit button is gone ….not knowing the the SA is a xtian group would be akin to saying that Einstien doesn’t know physics, this is ment to replace the end of the last sentance above.
Sadly, there isn’t a good secular alternative to the services they provide in my town. I usually end up tossing them coins.
They don’t seem to have any problems with toy guns…
Can’t have an army without guns…
The Salvation Army has, and will always have, a specific agenda to go along with the “good christian work” that they do. All of that hard earned cash in those jars will go to feeding and helping anyone who will comply with their agenda. “Here’s your meal. Here’s your blanket. Here’s your bible. Package deal, friend.”
I would be willing to bet a trillion dollars that if I were to enter my local Salvation Army, and explain, “I’m cold and hungry and in need of help, but I’m a devout atheist, so please, no religious teachings for me.”, that I would be shown the door, and leave hungry!
You know, after the first world war many German men and women were desperately cold and hungry, and looking for help, and a future. A little group called the Nazi Party started taking in the weak and venerable, and “helping them back on their feet with a new future”.
“Welcome, friend. Here’s your meal. Here’s your blanket. Here’s your copy of our agenda. Package deal, friend”. Cut to 100 days later. “I’m fed, I’m warm, and I have some new friends. I also have a newly discovered hatred for the Jews, and a shiny new gun. I SEE THE LIGHT!” Same thing.
Everywhere I look all I see is HYPOCHRISTIANS ( feel free to use the term liberally ). False goodness on the outside – closed minded hatred and rigid exclusion on the inside.
I think I’m going to go to the mall today, and when I walk past those “Good Christian Soldiers Doing God’s Work” I’ll tell him or her that I’m currently giving my donations to support a safe house for alter boys that have been repeatedly raped, and have nowhere to turn.
RELIGION = PEDOPHILIA! Read it. Learn it. Live it. Accept it. Ring your bell to that tune, ass holes!
I would be willing to bet a trillion dollars that if I were to enter my local Salvation Army, and explain, “I’m cold and hungry and in need of help, but I’m a devout atheist, so please, no religious teachings for me.”, that I would be shown the door, and leave hungry!
I’d be willing to bet that if you were actually cold and hungry, you’d put up with a nonsense sermon in order to get food and heat. There are worse things than talking nonsense at someone; if someone wants to spend an hour of my time as the price of feeding and clothing my ass, they are welcome to it.
Also, the Godwin is a bit too far in the context of the Salvation Army.
This. Having worked in A&E and dealt with the Sally Army in connection with homeless patients, I think that first and foremost they would feed you and give you a warm bed. They’d give you a sermon probably, but they wouldn’t refuse to help you.
gun city and the sallies all just as wistful as each other
have you ever looked up who makes weetbix cereal
they advertise “weetbix kids are kiwi kids” in New Zealand and then advertise the same stuff in Australia as “weetbix kids are Aussie kids”
(Aussie being the colloquium for Australian people and kiwi being a colloquium for New Zealand people.)
This is all just religious hype to make us buy/eat more wheat for breakfast cereal that only make us eat more food on the whole than we would if we did not eat their wheat products and of course make us regularly defecate like an elephant.
And where does the money they make go to you may wonder.
to ill will cartels around the world, such as a certain ill will shop in Christchurch.
about 30 years ago I stopped this ill will shop from advertising their products on New Zealand television and how much safer would New Zealand be now if the shop had succeeded but all is almost lost now already because ill will products are creeping their way into the New Zealand police force again. What a load of ill will rehabilitators does our government making to safe guard this beautiful country that has had the safest place in the world record some years ago.
I make this statement now in a peaceful protest of that fact! law with ill will machines are all they can accomplish, No supprises there mate. New Zealand now has an anti-smacking policy and yes we have a hard time getting some young adults to respect the law will ill will machiniery solve that I dought it. It will – it will take a leap backwards. About 150 years backwards back to the civil unrest we had with ill willed colonialist arrival in New Zealand seeking to make their own riches, they helped little then as we all know from those stories at school and they will definitely help little now in 2010, 2011 and difinately 2012 when the galactic alignment will show use more maturity of soul.
The law should have institutions that are like being wrapped in cotton wool till forgiveness for their falling by the way side is understood by those sadly mistaken perpetrators of ill will, making a bold statement that ill will is always the wrong direction for rehabilitating young adults or adults by the police and the courts. True peace is where we are heading towards and so shall we remain heading for a safer and a more loving community in New Zealand the most dangerous beast in New Zealand so far is the white tailed spider and in my opinion the second would be the wild boar in our forests and of course the sharks in our salt waters all of which we still choose to protect more than we protect our people who have obviously still run off the rails a bit too much from time to time.
I have always looked towards the Absurd and Sublime to figure out what is better or worse but I must admit in reality there is no good and bad in this world only DIFFERENT.
darkness is different than light it has only a different quality, and it’s only our rhetoric than implies good and bad therefore we receive what we ask for.
I for one have never bought weetbix or any other cereal products for over 30 years and I’m looking and feeling great without them.
It only goes to show how these so called religious groups are heavily involved in SOCIAL ENGINEERING just to make money for the ill will effort we all want to eliminate from the world.
Just look at the poem I have placed on my starling html web page and you’ll suddenly get the idea that it’s not religion we should look up to. Our world and what we really need to CARE FOR is what we all need.
Jjust my two cents worth. I hope with the grand alignment in 2012 we will all be more wise and more worldly to cease SOCIAL ENGINEERING that parts all creatures that belong to this world, it’s not what religion you follow it’s what faith you have in our earth’s the positive inclination of our rhetoric we give our future showing pleasure without pain when we ask for the inhabiting that survived including all Fauna and Flora of our planet big and small.
wat
I grew up in the Bible Belt (Texas) and I still didn’t put together “Salvation Army” with Christianity until I was pretty near grown up – and I should have known better apparently, so I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t “get it” right away. I’ve never seen a member in uniform, only the bell ringers outside shops at Christmas time. I think a lot of people just see the name and think that because there’s a charity and they run a shop they’re probably ok. Yes, maybe it’s a bit stupid not to do more research before giving someone your money, but maybe people also don’t want to be suspicious of a charity, especially one that is as pervasive as the SA.
Anyway, overall I must say I’m impressed with the level of discourse on this blog. Just discovered it today and will probably read more in the future! It’s nice to see people calmly discuss ideas without being angry and calling each other names. :)