The following post was submitted by Jeremy Wells, AKA the Not So Friendly Atheist, who blogs about the logical flaws in religious arguments.
On July 4th, my 67 year old father-in-law and his Christian wife got kicked out of his “Christian” daughter’s house. They moved into her house because her and her husband couldn’t afford to pay their bills. My father-in-law wanted to help them and agreed to pay their rent and power for a year until they paid off their car. My sister-in-law gave them a room and the house rules.
The rules were: 1) All guests must be out before 5pm. and 2) My father-in-law and his wife must go somewhere else every weekend so the “man of the house” could relax. After three weeks my father-in-law had enough and complained, his daughter said that it was THEIR house and he needed to show them respect because THEY were doing him a favor. My father-in-law and his wife came over to our house frustrated at the lack of gratitude and we helped them.
We live in a two bedroom apartment with two kids, but even two heathens like us want to help family in need. During the week we made them feel comfortable in our house. We found them an apartment and helped them move in. The entire week his wife respected our atheism and avoided religious comments, but the first thing she said after we finished setting up their new apartment was…. “Thank You Jesus!” I felt like telling her, “Our name isn’t Jesus, but you’re welcome.”
This inspired me to write about the most annoying act in Christianity. Thanking god for another person’s actions is illogical. If someone gets an A on a test they thank Jesus. Why is it so hard for someone to take credit for the hard work they put into studying? If someone gets a promotion at work they thank Jesus without admitting that they were qualified for the job. When someone receives help they thank Jesus. Why not just thank the person that provided the help? Religion has taught people that they are incapable of doing anything on their own and must give credit to god for every good thing.
This reasoning fails to answer the obvious questions. If god helped once then why did he choose not to help every other time? If god will respond then why study for tests or prepare for job interviews? Christians tend to say that god uses other people to deliver his supernatural miracles, but they rely on natural methods as a backup. We must show gratitude to the people that we know have helped instead of thanking a deity that occasionally appears to help.
It is easy for a Christian to believe that god used a bystander to save their child from drowning, but what about the thousands of other children which drown each year. Did god choose not to save those children? If someone believes god answers prayers then they must explain the times he doesn’t; to find the truth we must scrutinize every “supernatural” event. If something can be explained by natural means then it should be considered a natural phenomenon instead of a divine miracle.
Many Christians consider giving god credit for their lives to be an act of humility, but I don’t consider this humility. It is arrogant to believe that god would answer one prayer while ignoring millions of others. What makes them any more important than anyone else? It is more likely that someone else is the cause of your “miracle.” Thanking god for someone else’s kindness is disgraceful to humanity.
If there was a god then there would be no reason to give him praise for answering a prayer because it is something an almighty god should do. It is much more amazing that a wretched species like ours could go completely against our sinful nature to reach out to someone and become the help they need. Humanity is all we have and we owe our gratitude to every human being that helps us on our journey.
There’s the proxy-thank, too – that one’s even worse. I think I’ve mentioned it here before, but one time we had a girl in the resus room in cardiac arrest, but it was a reversible cause so we worked on her for two or three hours – the battery went flat in the pacer after an hour so we had to carry on with manual chest compressions. I don’t know how many of you have done CPR on a human being, but it takes a lot more welly than it does on a Resussie Annie doll. Anyway, we got the girl’s heart started again and she had some neurological signs that made us optimistic about her prognosis, so we kept her sedated and got her off to intensive care so they could wean her off the ventilator and try to wake her up a few days later. As some of us were walking out of resus, badly in need of a break, drenched in sweat, the girl’s mother and father were in the corridor talking to their priest, who was saying something like “I’m so thankful that God heard my prayers”.
I just stopped and stared, mouth hanging open. I’ve heard some obnoxious religious bullshit before, but that one is my all-time personal cake-taker. I have never in my adult life had to work so hard at not punching somebody’s teeth down the back of their throat. In the event we all walked off, muttering and glaring.
In your story, who should we thank?? We should thank you for saving her life?? That is fair but shouldn’t we also thank God who gave her life so one day you could save her life…
Thanks for you should have been included but why does Thanks to God have to be excluded????
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To slide in a political tangent here, I find it amazingly hypocritical that fundamentalist conservatives whine about liberals wanting to do everything for everyone, and have no personal responsibility, yet invoke the name of god for everything they’ve been given.
Totally annoys me too… I wince every time my wife says grace. Occasionally I snipe at it with a prayer to the farmers who grew it and the truck drivers who transported it, as well as the supermarket who kindly marked up the price.
In my family we sometimes say “Grace” before a meal to recognize the incredible work that went into producing the bounty – the farmers, the machinists, the truckers, the scientists, and even the supermarket (their job isn’t easy either). It’s literally awesome to ponder the complexity of human society.
How long should grace be? Should we thank those who invented the food? Should we thank the sales paper who advertise the sale, that told us about the food, that we cook to go our table?
Somebody has to be thanked? Who (in your life) do you thank and why? I guarantee you are leaving somebody off the list?
Why not Thank you Jesus and it includes everybody?
Well, why should we thank “god” for food when it says right there in Genesis that man’s punishment for sinning was to toil and work the land?
So people are going to thank “god” for the curse he put on us?
Silly.
Why because He could-a just smushed us then & there and been done with the whole human concept knowing well ahead that you’d all try “reason” HIS existence away.
I thank HIM that you have the ability to choose…. to deify yourselves and ignore what you can’t explain or have hardened yourselves enough to not experience. Sorry I rant …
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I agree; this is profoundly annoying. It has the side effect of making it difficult for me to be kind to these sorts of people because the last thing I want to do is reinforce their belief in their inconstant and arbitrary deity. How is it that an invisible guy gets the credit for stuff that we do? Crazy.
Absolutely agree!
On an international flight, I was the only medical provider aboard when an elderly woman was having a heart attack. I went hand helped in the standard way. We kept the woman stable and happy until we landed in Mexico and an ambulance took her to a hospital. When we landed (after one hour of caring for her) when everyone realized she wasn’t going to die right there and then, two couples near us piped in “We were praying for you. God answered our prayers!”
Wow!
I agree 100 percent!
Thank you god… for fixing the cataracts of Sam’s mum! Sums it up very well.
Next time someone thanks “god” (of Jesus) for your actions, quip:
“You don’t have to call me God (or Jesus), [insert your name here] will do just fine!”
LOL!!!
I always have to restrain myself when my fb friends and family thank “god” for stoopid stuff that has nothing to do with “god”.
hmmm, might be where doctors get their god complexes
Just a nitpick:
When you have a story that has that many characters, you might not want to throw around pronouns so willy-nilly. I’ve read the first paragraph a few times, I’m not entirely sure who “he” and “she” are every time.
Who needed help? The older folks or the younger? It seemed like the younger, but then the daughter tells the FiL that she’s doing him a favor, so that flips the narrative.
I know that point of the post was to comment on people thanking God or Jesus instead of the actual people who helped (that annoys me too), but I think a bit of editing on the scenario set-up would help.
The only part that was a little confusing is why the daughter felt she was doing her father a favor.
I wonder if he couched the original help in terms that she could accept without feeling she was accepting assistance (“I need a place to stay and I could help you pay rent”)
Or if she twisted it in her mind that she was actually providing the aid when, in fact, she was not. (“You [father] provide only weekly/monthly help, while I [daughter] provide you daily attention.”)
My sister in law said that she was helping my father in law by giving him a place to stay. She refused to see that he was paying all of her bills, but I didn’t want to go into the whole story. I briefly mentioned it to give a background. Sorry about the confusion.
As usual, no true understanding of God or ‘goodness’, ie its Origin/Source, how It plays out in us, where God lives (not in the sky), etc. Why dost thou call ‘me’ good?
Trolling isn’t good.
(Rationals, 4:6:18-20)
John, don’t you bloody start. The good I do comes from ME, not some imaginary sky-daddy.
I didn’t say that God was in the sky Custy, just the opposite. Interesting that you mention blood though (I know ‘bloody’ is a cultural thing with you Brits). All my best.
Address the issue, not the lingo. Your god could be anywhere that anyone wants him to be, because you cannot prove otherwise. Also, any idiot knows ‘bloody’ to be a curse in some cultures, and with some people in general – any idiot could figure out from the context that ‘bloody’ doesn’t actually mean “blood” here.
Also, I hope you only go to faith healers for the rest of your life for trying to thank your sky-daddy for the things people do.
Aye, I see you’ve got a little William Wallace in ya te’day eh there do ya lad, you’ve come to ‘peck a fight’ with ye fellow man?
I see you’re still content to wander in the desert of human reasoning and pride Nzo. No sky-daddy, that is not the Truth friend, not anywhere close, its much better than that. As for the blood reference, I know very well the landscape of terminology, I was referring to something and someOne else. You have never heard the truth of the gospel, you have only (to this point) seen ‘religion’ and wisely cast its heavy yoke aside, congrats. Be assured there is much more to be dis-covered.
Swear to my mother, I’d have marked that comment as spam if it had been posted by anybody but you, John…
Ok, I’ll back off now out of respect to you Custy. All my sincere best (and you know that’s true).
Amazingly, I really do. Same to you, John.
JC may be a mystic, but he’s our mystic.
:)
Better than to wander the wasteland with a blindfold of faith.
I saw this today John C, and I thought of you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwLpguYWIc&feature=related
Years ago, when I was an elder in a Word of Faith church. A lady came up front and thanked god for healing her poodle of a bump on it’s neck. (probably an abscess that just drained on its own) while a young girl, whom we had anointed and prayed the prayer of faith for in the hospital had just died. I thought then, “Hmmmm, can I rationally believe that God healed the poodle, but left this poor girl, who was believing as hard as she could, to die. I’m glad I woke up and got out of that silly s***.
God is so busy curing mild flus and helping people find parking spots that he just don’t have the time to grow new legs or cure AIDS.
Do you ever feel like God, if he is real, must be on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger effect?
Yes. Along with all believers.
Now, Yoav. You know that AIDS is Gawd’s punishment for homoseckshuls and their nasty buttsecks.
Oh, forgot about that, I guess Malaria is yahwe punishing poor people for not having proper water treatment infrastructure or something.
The death and suffering teaches them a valuable lesson about… something… Besides, their dead kids are in heaven now. The Christian ones, anyway.
Conversely, why don’t religious people curse their gods every time someone dies, or gets sick, or their sports teams lose?
“Damn you Jesus for killing my father!”
“Curse you Allah for losing my dog.”
“Fuck you Yahweh, the Giants lost.”
cuz it’s obviously the work of de debil, not the beloved “one goodness”
Or if you’re a Calvinist, it’s God’s “perfect will” and we should praise him for it. Makes PERFECT sense, right?? *rolls eyes*
Heh. But I bet you won’t see a Calvinist thanking “God” for an F-5 tornado that destroys half a city and kills hundreds, though they should, since it’s all part of their deity’s will.
Did you know that the word “blessing” comes from the French word “blessure”… which means injury?
Mmmm hmmm…
Might I suggest a more expensive dictionary?
There are three New Testament Greek words related directly to the English word “blessing”.
(eulogeitos) is an adjective meaning “well spoken of; praised”
(eulogew) is a verb: “to speak well of; to praise; to call down God’s gracious power”
(eulogia) is the noun form, meaning “praise; fine speaking”
Did you know “dodo’ in french means long sleep? Who asked you to define blessing in french??
Mmmmm Hmmmmmm
One of my pet peeves, someone mentioned above: thanking a god for the care and treatment of a physician, hospital, medical technology.
*eye roll*
Part of the problem with thanking a god for random fortune in your life—and therefore the belief that god has been involved—is that it is necessarily accompanied or followed by the belief that for some reason, even if you don’t understand it, you are deserving of god’s help. Feeling worthy of god’s blessings while cognizant of the millions of people who, by this rationale, are for some reason not worthy, borders on hubris; acknowledging that you don’t know why you deserve god’s blessings while cognizant of the millions of people who for some reason don’t, and continuing to believe and worship your god, is, in my opinion, destestable.
*er, detestable. Also, I could have sworn I hit the reply button to Martin’s post below. This isn’t directed toward you, Karen.
Who should we thank in your scenario? According to your logic, we should thank the doctor who went to school? The school who trained the doctor. The construction workers who built the school who trained the doctors so he could work in the hospital.
We should then thank those who invented the rocks and sticks and glue to make the material to build the school who trained the doctor who works in the hospital?
We should thank all of that but not God who gave them all life??? Where do the “thank you” starts and stop? Who qualified you to answer either question?
By the way, thank you for your post or should I thank my dell computer for allowing me to read it… Shuks, I probably need to thank my internet and my internet provider, oh wait, what about my electricity…
WHERE DO I START,WHERE DO I STOP? I guess, I will just say THANK YOU JESUS!
Are you seriously arguing that a physician shouldn’t be thanked for saving someone’s life?
You physically thank the person with whom you directly interact. They, in turn, do the same for the corresponding people. The patient thanks the doctor, the doctor (while in school) thanks their teachers, etc. You’re making this sound way more complicated than it is.
Not a thing wrong with thanking God for the good things in your life. If that makes me less of a person then so be it! Maybe next time someone does that to you, tell them it bothers you. Instead of just complaining about it on here.
What about the cursing of the same god for bad things happening?
If you thank God when you should be thanking a human being who just busted their balls for you, then you’re not “less of a person”, you’re an asshole. Seriously, do you know how maddening it is to save sombody’s life and then hear a priest give himself and his imaginary boss credit for it to the person’s family? No mention that maybe imaginary boss could have stopped the person from nearly dying in the first place, nnnoooo! Fuck that shit. I thank the people who earn it.
I disagree Custy, I think thanking god DOES make someone less of a person. The sheer magnitude of both stupidity, and unawareness of how many people DIED while joe-blow got a parking spot is staggering.
It also takes away from the individual achievements of the people praising it.
If I do a good job, and worked your ass off, or even got lucky, to thank an invisible thing for it takes away a lot form your sense of accomplishment.
Which, i guess is also a goal of the church. “Can’t survive/excel/live without “the jez”so you better give him credit for everything cuz you sure as hell didn’t do any of it yourself” keeps people from doing greater things than they might without it.
Well, Martin, the same could be said for your drive-by godbottery.
Of course if we actually do remark on it then you can be sure some Christian will blame us for being insensitive.
Thank you Martin for your post! I stumbled onto this site and I am just taking back by such remarks. It was refreshing to read your post.
THANK YOU JESUS…
remember All in the Family? Once Archie said they were going to pray before the meal to thank god for the food. Mike, (Meathead) then says, “Maybe you could ask him to lower his prices.”
I’ll ‘thank god’, when I see an amputee grow a new limb.
>.< Science either has done this, or will soon – STEM CELLS FTW
f*ck 'god'. Science has to catch up so artards can claim 'goddidit'
that’s the starfish and salamander god
Sounds like someones jealous!!
“My delusion is better than your delusion!”
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I know this is sort of off-topic, but there is a tenuous link… I was watching the fairly Crass Season of the Witch with Nicholas Cage last night. The end sequence revolved around the goodies trying to stave off a demon whilst the priest spoke a ritual to exorcise the demon. Most of the goodies died whilst buying time for their matey to read the Latin. This made me think how theologically naive such films are. Why would a benevolent God demand that a ritual of Latin words be recanted in order for ‘His’ power to enact on banishing the demon? Surely, such ritual is utterly pointless in light of a benevolent God doing good for good reasons rather than because someone manages to reel off some nonsense.
The connection with this post is intercessory prayer / thanks for intercessory action. God, with all his knowledge and wisdom is bound by his omnis to do the most loving things at every moment. Thus his mind and actions cannot be changed by prayer or ritual. He would do such things out of the goodness of the actions, not because someone demanded it or said the right words int he right order.
Prayer and ritual have no logical part to play in God’s actions, as far as I can see. Thanks is even more ridiculous, since God knew he was going to do that since the beginning of time, and has no ability to do otherwise, given the constrainsts of omnibenevolence/potence/science.
I ask this same question all the time. My brother brought up a good point last week when Chad Ochocinco tweeted “God is good” when he got signed with the Patriots. God really had anything to do with that? Seriously? Does God really care about the NFL?
And if this god was so invested in the NFL, then why didn’t it handle the lockout? A lot of small towns that depend on the revenue generated by interest in training camps were almost up shit’s creek due to the lockout. Surely, “God” could have taken time out of its busy schedule of fucking over sub-Saharan Africa to offer a word or two of advice to the NFLPA.
Unacceptable response: “Of course, God cares more about getting you signed on with the Patriots than he does about the millions of starving children in Africa. Guess you’re just special.”
God only gets credit for good things. Bad luck is just that. Bad luck. That seems so logical.
Or it’s just the devil, as my family and former churches would have us believe.
All the nation and people that forget God will end up in hell
You’ll end up wasting the only life you have believing in fairy tales because you’re scared of the christian boogey-man (hell).
I haven’t forgotten the Christian god at all. But I do not worship it, or any other.
Whose god, Chiama?
believe me guys there is a God who live in heaven. I don’t just know why is hard for you to believe. ok. tell me how did this world we are living come to be, if you give me a good explanation i will go along with you guys. tell me who made it.
well, your say so is all the proof we needed! it’s just what we were all waiting for
Hey guys chiama says there’s a god. Guess we better call it a day.
So you’ve never heard of the Big Bang theory. I think you need to take some science classes before you even think about debating here. Debating–that would be of use to you. Thinking–study some philosophy before you try to take on people much more enlightened then yourself. Oh, and work on your spelling and grammar. People will always take you more seriously if you capitalize and punctuate.
The very way that you phrased the question- “tell me who made it”- flags the fact that you haven’t thought about it very much. You’ve already made an unwarranted assumption. What are the logical possibilities?
1. Your God made the universe.
2. Some other being made the universe.
3. Nothing made the universe. It came into being spontaneously.
4. The universe has always existed, so the question of an origin is meaningless.
You can’t just decide that Option #1 is correct without considering the evidence for the others.
I go with 4.
The universe consists of Time and Space and Energy. Cause and Effect only functions within the boundaries of Time. You cannot have a “before time” scenario that has any meaning.
<blockquote cite="" "tell me how did this world we are living come to be, if you give me a good explanation i will go along with you guys. tell me who made it." </blockquote cite=""
I did last Tuesday.
As for your explanation, Fuck You. I'm almighty, my reasons are mine alone and you cannot hope to comprehend them.
Just be happy that I've revealed myself to you.
I was having a lovely morning… And now there’s you. Meh. Going climbing instead. Can’t be arsed to talk to the stupid creatard.
Check out Asherah! She’s right there, next to Yahweh. Right now. Today. As you are reading this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ-P8ZvuKVw&feature=colike
Jeff
God created this universe and living being including humans. All the human have very complex body and shape, very complex brain etc. Using these brain we have done lot of inventions and discoveries. With that same brain we are trying to judge God and his ways. Holy bible says that the intelligence of human is only foolishness to God. So when Jesus is thanked dont get angry. Is there any chance for clay in pot to argue with its mentor regarding its shape and purpose. we are clays to god hand and let him use us according to his Wish. For a believer, there is no co incidence in life rather a plan known by god. Even death is not something happening common, rather some thing that God allows in each ones personal life.
Ah, the “we are all children, trust in the father he knows better” argument. To which I have only to say: BS. The God of your Bible is a vicious, murderous brute. Even if you proved he existed – which you can’t – I still wouldn’t worship him. You don’t worship something less than yourself.
Interesting how your clay analogy completely dehumanizes us, reducing us to dumb matter that can be used without compunction by the divine clay maker. What a crude god you believe in.
Like all religious people, you have failed to examine your underlying premises, let alone prove them. I.e., you have assumed that a god does exist, and that it is your god in particular. We don’t share those assumptions; they make no sense.
I could offer you all the reasons in the world why it is important for you to be a good Hindu, but you would immediately shrug it off as irrelevant because you don’t believe in Hindu mythology and you don’t share the assumptions of the Hindu world-view. And this is how Christianity appears to non-Christians.
The basic problem that you are facing is that to any outsider, any mythology looks equally implausible. And it is not enough to simply assert, “Yes, but my particular mythology happens to be true.” You need to provide evidence that is not circularly referential. Please don’t waste your time telling us that you know your god is real because the Bible says so, and that the Bible is reliable because it’s the word of your god.
Ursa, your reply should probably be required reading for anyone wishing to post on this site.
Definitely!
I agree with Len. This is a wonderfully succinct and erudite exposition of the flaws of the poster’s poorly held views.
Nice one.
Here’s Yahweh and Asherah together for you!
http://youtu.be/Wj0QMz20C4I
http://youtu.be/3661LUl1Lik
You don’t have to deny the existence of an imaginary friend. It’s completely obvious to any sane person that your magic man doesn’t exist and the only “argument” you can use to convince us is a series of outlandish threats.
Next time, just say “God will fuck you up.” since your belief in your cosmological version of a playground bully is based on just that statement.
Now I feel like an idiot because the comment I replied to has disappeared.
Sorry Darwin! If it had actually said anything I would have left it up, regardless of offence levels – But a drive-by troll shouting “YOU’RE ALL GOING TO BURN IN HELL! BOW TO JEEEEESUS!” with no other message than that is just spam, and it’s not like some arsehole doesn’t say the same thing on here at least twice a day anyway. I mean, it they’re going to troll they could at least be original about it and entertain us a bit.
It’s okay. Just let me have the next one.
Come TrickQuestion we shall ride away on our slightly annoyed steeds: WTF and Awwwkkkward.
Not to worry, Darwin. Your post offers good, generic advice. If this were a D&D game, it would be the Swiss Army Knife of Rebutting.
Feel better about yourself? yeah, i bet you have a good smug on right now.
Seems like you good folks got this thing all figured out…I would caution you not to base your opinion of God or lack thereof based upon the behavior/predilections of people that thank, praise, curse, beg, plead, cajole or otherwise incant-ate their perceived notion of who or whom God Almighty is…kinda like me deciding that all atheist mock, insult, belittle, condescend and basically please themselves with their mutual admiration society of deity denial…easy guys, don’t blame God or judge God based upon the behavior of those that say they know him the best…Let “sky daddy” as you call him bless you and keep you…and most of all, love you.
I’m constantly appalled at the amount of stupid that can be crammed into a single paragraph.
No one needs to observe christians to know:
1) the bible is a contradictory conglomeration of fairy tales
2) the god of the bible is a bigoted, childish, stupid, lazy, evil, selfish, prick.
Take one wild guess where you can find these things.
Joe, it seems like you really have no clue about the website you just posted to. You seem to have no clue about atheists in general, and the ones here in particular.
Not that it matters, but almost everyone here could SCHOOL %90 of the christian population on the bible. We don’t need moronic christians to show that your god is a moronic figment of your imagination.
Massive projection here. The denial is completely from your side of the court bud.
According to the logic of this article, thanks should only be traced to its lowest common denominator. Instead of thanking you, they should have thanked the apartment owner for having a vacancy. And they should have thanked the bank for giving them the loan to the apartment owner to buy the apartment. Why should you and your wife be thanked? I suspect you feel your good deed needs to be acknowledge. Doesn’t that make you like GOD. But I digressy ~ thank you and your wife.
But if thanks is traced to the lowest common denominator, it will still (at some point) point to GOD! He created the person who owns the bank, who approved the loan, who gave it to the person to buy the building, to have the vacancy and ultimately the apartment so you and your wife could feel special for helping family. THANK YOU JESUS (according to your knowledge).
Finally, don’t worry. Trust me, at some point, on some day, you will acknowledge GOD. I just pray it is not too late. THANK YOU JESUS..
PS
My spell check in MS-WORD makes me spell satan with a capital “S”, please adhere to the same rule when addressing GOD!
Unlike Jesus, some of those other denominators can be shown to exist.
PS
Does it make you spell “Ms-Word”, “god”, or “thank you Jesus” in all caps. Cause that actually sounds like some kind of software error.
Nox,
Who do you thank for discovering electricity? Have you ever seen them?
Who do you thank for discovering the color red or blue or green? Have you ever seen them?
Who do you thank for discovering the television? Have you ever seen them?
My guess is NO but you believe their historical records? Why not GOD or JESUS?
Since when do we have to see someone or something to thank them? Who could ever be thanks according to that rule?
NO software error, MS-WORD editing rules…
Who do I thank for discovering the color red?
Do you mean that as an actual question?
PS,
“satan” is a title, same as “god”. Capitalizing “Lucifer” or “Jesus” or even “Yhvh” would make some degree of sense as those are names. You don’t have to do everything Microsoft tells you.
PPS,
Unlike Jesus, Benjamin Franklin thought to write his own gospel.
Don’t do what Ms-Word tells you to do?? I can see you have no starting point and to that………there is no point?
The “actual” questions were designed to spark the idea that all truth starts from somewhere. If you can believe the color red is red, you are in essence believe in something that you did not see at the time of invention or discovery?
Try applying the same rule to the bible and you will be surprise how much you believe…
Electricity was discovered by Farraday. Television was invented by John Logie Baird (as it happens, I’m related to one of his technicians, who’s still alive). Colour is simply how we perceive different wave-lengths of EM radiation in the visible spectrum.
The reason to disbelieve the Bible is fairly straightforward: Because quite a lot of it is provably untrue.
The reason to disbelieve the bible is straightforward??? Not sure your thesis here. If you can believe the color red is red, the capacity to believe the bible is in you. You choose NOT to believe.
That is a different argument than it is just lubricious to believe.
The point of the questions was to assert the idea that truth starts from somewhere… At some we all believe in people (stuff) we did not see??
Why doesn’t that rule apply to the bible?
Have you ever visited the Jerusalem? Have you ever visited Bethany? I would highly encourage you to take a trip to either of these places before you say you don’t believe? You will see stuff that was preserved from Jesus time on earth.
Uhh… I don’t think “lubricious” means what you think it means…
The reason to disbelieve the Q’uran is straightforward??? Not sure your thesis here. If you can believe the color red is red, the capacity to believe the Q’uran is in you. You choose NOT to believe.
That is a different argument than it is just ludicrous to believe.
The point of the questions was to assert the idea that truth starts from somewhere… At some we all believe in people (stuff) we did not see??
Why doesn’t that rule apply to the Q’uran?
Have you ever visited Jerusalem? Have you ever visited Mecca? I would highly encourage you to take a trip to either of these places before you say you don’t believe? You will see stuff that was preserved from Muhammed’s time on earth.
See here’s the thing Tony,
The bible doesn’t just make claims that we can’t be sure are true.
The bible makes several claims that we can be reasonably certain are not true.
Matthew 27:52-53 claims that Jerusalem was overrun by zombies after Jesus’ crucifixion.
Genesis 1:1-19 tells us that the Earth went through alternating periods of light and darkness for three days prior to the creation of the Sun.
If you can understand why the bible is wrong about those things, the capacity to disbelieve the bible is in you.
are you kidding with that story? ever thought about it this way: God gives each one of us free will, christian, atheist or not…. Sometimes the imperfections in others is there to bring out the perfection in US, not because God doesnt exist!!!! denying God’s existance doesnt make Him not exist, it just means your in denial. its ashame you wrote off God bc of some hypocrits… seems to me that those hypocrits have more power over you than you do yourself. Being spiritual doesnt mean being obsessed with being a chrisitan and going to services and preaching to anyone who will listen, do your research.. and really do it. dont go in it with the end result already determined in you mind either… we tend to get what we expect in life. give yourself a chance. there is something bigger and better out there, and it doesnt exist in a religion or a title or a place of worship…. it exists in YOU, and everyone else around you… its everything and everywhere in everyone all at once. denying it doesnt make it not the truth, the truth is the truth, just waiting for you to stop being so angry and open your eyes. good luck, its a dark world when you have no light. i once believed God didnt exist, darkest place i have ever been… and i got so sick of people preaching to me…and i was so fed up with the whole God thing…. that one day I YELLED AND CURSED AT “GOD” AND TOLD THAT @$#%%^^&&*()*&& IF He really existed to prove it!!!! and its been proven to me every day there after. i dare you to ask it be proven to you.. either way… IT IS NOT OUR DARKNESS THAT MOST FRIGHTENS US, ITS THAT WE ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN WE CAN COMPREHEND, ITS OUR LIGHT THAT MOST FRIGHTENS US. so why are you so scared?
And wishing god was real doesn’t make him any more real.
I’m happy for you that you had some sort of nice emotional response to your plea for help, but that doesn’t make God real – it just makes him your invisible friend.
“so why are you so scared?”
Did you read what you wrote?
You and every ignorant believer who thinks they have a direct line to a omnipotent deity and your accompanying con artists, priests and liars scare the shit out of every rational person who shares this planet with you.
You’re fucking crazy, that’s why we’re scared.
The spelling and punctuation in your post made Baby Jesus cry. I hope you’re proud of yourself.
Truth? You must know that what you mean is YOUR truth, and except for an anecdote or two to which YOU assigned your own desired value you have no independently observable, much less verifiable evidence. It’s nice you are comfortable with your self-created views, but please don’t proselytize if you have no more than that to offer.
How is it that a Moron like you can still walk upright and even know how to turn a computer on?
Listen shit for brains, God isn’t a circus act. People are allowed to do whatever the want -PERIOD. That is what God does. He gives you free will.
You thank God for beings alive and taking your last breath, because your next breath is guaranteed to NO ONE.
Sadly Morons like you will meet God, for a brief second when he tell you to burn in hell.
Ah, another data point in my theory on fundamentalists and their inability to sense irony.
I need to thank god for the stuff I’m already doing fine by myself?
If only god showed up in the real world he wouldn’t have to have tell all those people to go burn in hell.
Your god sounds like a really lazy schmuck.