Thank You Jesus

The following post was submitted by Jeremy Wells, AKA the Not So Friendly Atheist, who blogs about the logical flaws in religious arguments.

On July 4th, my 67 year old father-in-law and his Christian wife got kicked out of his “Christian” daughter’s house. They moved into her house because her and her husband couldn’t afford to pay their bills. My father-in-law wanted to help them and agreed to pay their rent and power for a year until they paid off their car. My sister-in-law gave them a room and the house rules.

The rules were: 1) All guests must be out before 5pm. and 2) My father-in-law and his wife must go somewhere else every weekend so the “man of the house” could relax. After three weeks my father-in-law had enough and complained, his daughter said that it was THEIR house and he needed to show them respect because THEY were doing him a favor. My father-in-law and his wife came over to our house frustrated at the lack of gratitude and we helped them.

We live in a two bedroom apartment with two kids, but even two heathens like us want to help family in need. During the week we made them feel comfortable in our house. We found them an apartment and helped them move in. The entire week his wife respected our atheism and avoided religious comments, but the first thing she said after we finished setting up their new apartment was…. “Thank You Jesus!” I felt like telling her, “Our name isn’t Jesus, but you’re welcome.”

This inspired me to write about the most annoying act in Christianity. Thanking god for another person’s actions is illogical. If someone gets an A on a test they thank Jesus. Why is it so hard for someone to take credit for the hard work they put into studying? If someone gets a promotion at work they thank Jesus without admitting that they were qualified for the job. When someone receives help they thank Jesus. Why not just thank the person that provided the help? Religion has taught people that they are incapable of doing anything on their own and must give credit to god for every good thing.

This reasoning fails to answer the obvious questions. If god helped once then why did he choose not to help every other time? If god will respond then why study for tests or prepare for job interviews? Christians tend to say that god uses other people to deliver his supernatural miracles, but they rely on natural methods as a backup. We must show gratitude to the people that we know have helped instead of thanking a deity that occasionally appears to help.

It is easy for a Christian to believe that god used a bystander to save their child from drowning, but what about the thousands of other children which drown each year. Did god choose not to save those children? If someone believes god answers prayers then they must explain the times he doesn’t; to find the truth we must scrutinize every “supernatural” event. If something can be explained by natural means then it should be considered a natural phenomenon instead of a divine miracle.

Many Christians consider giving god credit for their lives to be an act of humility, but I don’t consider this humility. It is arrogant to believe that god would answer one prayer while ignoring millions of others. What makes them any more important than anyone else? It is more likely that someone else is the cause of your “miracle.” Thanking god for someone else’s kindness is disgraceful to humanity.

If there was a god then there would be no reason to give him praise for answering a prayer because it is something an almighty god should do. It is much more amazing that a wretched species like ours could go completely against our sinful nature to reach out to someone and become the help they need. Humanity is all we have and we owe our gratitude to every human being that helps us on our journey.

  • Custador

    There’s the proxy-thank, too – that one’s even worse. I think I’ve mentioned it here before, but one time we had a girl in the resus room in cardiac arrest, but it was a reversible cause so we worked on her for two or three hours – the battery went flat in the pacer after an hour so we had to carry on with manual chest compressions. I don’t know how many of you have done CPR on a human being, but it takes a lot more welly than it does on a Resussie Annie doll. Anyway, we got the girl’s heart started again and she had some neurological signs that made us optimistic about her prognosis, so we kept her sedated and got her off to intensive care so they could wean her off the ventilator and try to wake her up a few days later. As some of us were walking out of resus, badly in need of a break, drenched in sweat, the girl’s mother and father were in the corridor talking to their priest, who was saying something like “I’m so thankful that God heard my prayers”.

    I just stopped and stared, mouth hanging open. I’ve heard some obnoxious religious bullshit before, but that one is my all-time personal cake-taker. I have never in my adult life had to work so hard at not punching somebody’s teeth down the back of their throat. In the event we all walked off, muttering and glaring.

    • Tony

      In your story, who should we thank?? We should thank you for saving her life?? That is fair but shouldn’t we also thank God who gave her life so one day you could save her life…

      Thanks for you should have been included but why does Thanks to God have to be excluded????

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  • TrickQuestion

    To slide in a political tangent here, I find it amazingly hypocritical that fundamentalist conservatives whine about liberals wanting to do everything for everyone, and have no personal responsibility, yet invoke the name of god for everything they’ve been given.

  • blotonthelandscape

    Totally annoys me too… I wince every time my wife says grace. Occasionally I snipe at it with a prayer to the farmers who grew it and the truck drivers who transported it, as well as the supermarket who kindly marked up the price.

    • http://whohastimeforthis.com David Cowan

      In my family we sometimes say “Grace” before a meal to recognize the incredible work that went into producing the bounty – the farmers, the machinists, the truckers, the scientists, and even the supermarket (their job isn’t easy either). It’s literally awesome to ponder the complexity of human society.

      • Tony

        How long should grace be? Should we thank those who invented the food? Should we thank the sales paper who advertise the sale, that told us about the food, that we cook to go our table?

        Somebody has to be thanked? Who (in your life) do you thank and why? I guarantee you are leaving somebody off the list?

        Why not Thank you Jesus and it includes everybody?

    • http://lydiafromtexas.wordpress.com/ LRA

      Well, why should we thank “god” for food when it says right there in Genesis that man’s punishment for sinning was to toil and work the land?

      So people are going to thank “god” for the curse he put on us?

      Silly.

      • http://n/a Somedude

        Why because He could-a just smushed us then & there and been done with the whole human concept knowing well ahead that you’d all try “reason” HIS existence away.

        I thank HIM that you have the ability to choose…. to deify yourselves and ignore what you can’t explain or have hardened yourselves enough to not experience. Sorry I rant …

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  • gargirl

    I agree; this is profoundly annoying. It has the side effect of making it difficult for me to be kind to these sorts of people because the last thing I want to do is reinforce their belief in their inconstant and arbitrary deity. How is it that an invisible guy gets the credit for stuff that we do? Crazy.

  • http://triangulations.wordpress.com Sabio Lantz

    Absolutely agree!
    On an international flight, I was the only medical provider aboard when an elderly woman was having a heart attack. I went hand helped in the standard way. We kept the woman stable and happy until we landed in Mexico and an ambulance took her to a hospital. When we landed (after one hour of caring for her) when everyone realized she wasn’t going to die right there and then, two couples near us piped in “We were praying for you. God answered our prayers!”
    Wow!

  • Jack Malchow

    I agree 100 percent!

  • Veluzy

    Thank you god… for fixing the cataracts of Sam’s mum! Sums it up very well.

  • http://lydiafromtexas.wordpress.com/ LRA

    Next time someone thanks “god” (of Jesus) for your actions, quip:

    “You don’t have to call me God (or Jesus), [insert your name here] will do just fine!”

    LOL!!!

    I always have to restrain myself when my fb friends and family thank “god” for stoopid stuff that has nothing to do with “god”.

    • Noelle

      hmmm, might be where doctors get their god complexes

    • MisterPhillip

      Or, you can be the better human being and not search for a quip at all. Wanna REALLY stick it to a christian? Be a more selfless, compassionate, giving person than they are. Then….don’t brag about yourself. ;)

  • coffeejedi

    Just a nitpick:
    When you have a story that has that many characters, you might not want to throw around pronouns so willy-nilly. I’ve read the first paragraph a few times, I’m not entirely sure who “he” and “she” are every time.

    Who needed help? The older folks or the younger? It seemed like the younger, but then the daughter tells the FiL that she’s doing him a favor, so that flips the narrative.

    I know that point of the post was to comment on people thanking God or Jesus instead of the actual people who helped (that annoys me too), but I think a bit of editing on the scenario set-up would help.

    • SDE

      The only part that was a little confusing is why the daughter felt she was doing her father a favor.

      I wonder if he couched the original help in terms that she could accept without feeling she was accepting assistance (“I need a place to stay and I could help you pay rent”)

      Or if she twisted it in her mind that she was actually providing the aid when, in fact, she was not. (“You [father] provide only weekly/monthly help, while I [daughter] provide you daily attention.”)

      • http://godless.thenotsofriendlyatheist.net/ Jeremy Wells

        My sister in law said that she was helping my father in law by giving him a place to stay. She refused to see that he was paying all of her bills, but I didn’t want to go into the whole story. I briefly mentioned it to give a background. Sorry about the confusion.

  • John C

    As usual, no true understanding of God or ‘goodness’, ie its Origin/Source, how It plays out in us, where God lives (not in the sky), etc. Why dost thou call ‘me’ good?

    • TrickQuestion

      Trolling isn’t good.
      (Rationals, 4:6:18-20)

    • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

      John, don’t you bloody start. The good I do comes from ME, not some imaginary sky-daddy.

      • John C

        I didn’t say that God was in the sky Custy, just the opposite. Interesting that you mention blood though (I know ‘bloody’ is a cultural thing with you Brits). All my best.

        • Nzo

          Address the issue, not the lingo. Your god could be anywhere that anyone wants him to be, because you cannot prove otherwise. Also, any idiot knows ‘bloody’ to be a curse in some cultures, and with some people in general – any idiot could figure out from the context that ‘bloody’ doesn’t actually mean “blood” here.

          Also, I hope you only go to faith healers for the rest of your life for trying to thank your sky-daddy for the things people do.

          • John C

            Aye, I see you’ve got a little William Wallace in ya te’day eh there do ya lad, you’ve come to ‘peck a fight’ with ye fellow man?

            I see you’re still content to wander in the desert of human reasoning and pride Nzo. No sky-daddy, that is not the Truth friend, not anywhere close, its much better than that. As for the blood reference, I know very well the landscape of terminology, I was referring to something and someOne else. You have never heard the truth of the gospel, you have only (to this point) seen ‘religion’ and wisely cast its heavy yoke aside, congrats. Be assured there is much more to be dis-covered.

            • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

              Swear to my mother, I’d have marked that comment as spam if it had been posted by anybody but you, John…

            • John C

              Ok, I’ll back off now out of respect to you Custy. All my sincere best (and you know that’s true).

            • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

              Amazingly, I really do. Same to you, John.

            • http://lydiafromtexas.wordpress.com/ LRA

              JC may be a mystic, but he’s our mystic.

              :)

            • TrickQuestion

              Better than to wander the wasteland with a blindfold of faith.

            • Nzo

              I saw this today John C, and I thought of you.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZwLpguYWIc&feature=related

  • http://www.sosnomore.com Kirby Clendenon

    Years ago, when I was an elder in a Word of Faith church. A lady came up front and thanked god for healing her poodle of a bump on it’s neck. (probably an abscess that just drained on its own) while a young girl, whom we had anointed and prayed the prayer of faith for in the hospital had just died. I thought then, “Hmmmm, can I rationally believe that God healed the poodle, but left this poor girl, who was believing as hard as she could, to die. I’m glad I woke up and got out of that silly s***.

    • Yoav

      God is so busy curing mild flus and helping people find parking spots that he just don’t have the time to grow new legs or cure AIDS.

      • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

        Do you ever feel like God, if he is real, must be on the wrong side of the Dunning-Kruger effect?

        • Len

          Yes. Along with all believers.

      • http://theskippyreview.wordpress.com Skippy

        Now, Yoav. You know that AIDS is Gawd’s punishment for homoseckshuls and their nasty buttsecks.

        • Yoav

          Oh, forgot about that, I guess Malaria is yahwe punishing poor people for not having proper water treatment infrastructure or something.

          • trj

            The death and suffering teaches them a valuable lesson about… something… Besides, their dead kids are in heaven now. The Christian ones, anyway.

  • http://whohastimeforthis.com David Cowan

    Conversely, why don’t religious people curse their gods every time someone dies, or gets sick, or their sports teams lose?
    “Damn you Jesus for killing my father!”
    “Curse you Allah for losing my dog.”
    “Fuck you Yahweh, the Giants lost.”

    • TrickQuestion

      cuz it’s obviously the work of de debil, not the beloved “one goodness”

      • Melody

        Or if you’re a Calvinist, it’s God’s “perfect will” and we should praise him for it. Makes PERFECT sense, right?? *rolls eyes*

        • Skippy

          Heh. But I bet you won’t see a Calvinist thanking “God” for an F-5 tornado that destroys half a city and kills hundreds, though they should, since it’s all part of their deity’s will.

          • http://lydiafromtexas.wordpress.com/ LRA

            Did you know that the word “blessing” comes from the French word “blessure”… which means injury?

            Mmmm hmmm…

            • Tony

              Might I suggest a more expensive dictionary?

              There are three New Testament Greek words related directly to the English word “blessing”.

              (eulogeitos) is an adjective meaning “well spoken of; praised”

              (eulogew) is a verb: “to speak well of; to praise; to call down God’s gracious power”

              (eulogia) is the noun form, meaning “praise; fine speaking”

              Did you know “dodo’ in french means long sleep? Who asked you to define blessing in french??

              Mmmmm Hmmmmmm

  • Karen

    One of my pet peeves, someone mentioned above: thanking a god for the care and treatment of a physician, hospital, medical technology.
    *eye roll*

    • Malvond

      Part of the problem with thanking a god for random fortune in your life—and therefore the belief that god has been involved—is that it is necessarily accompanied or followed by the belief that for some reason, even if you don’t understand it, you are deserving of god’s help. Feeling worthy of god’s blessings while cognizant of the millions of people who, by this rationale, are for some reason not worthy, borders on hubris; acknowledging that you don’t know why you deserve god’s blessings while cognizant of the millions of people who for some reason don’t, and continuing to believe and worship your god, is, in my opinion, destestable.

      • Malvond

        *er, detestable. Also, I could have sworn I hit the reply button to Martin’s post below. This isn’t directed toward you, Karen.

    • Tony

      Who should we thank in your scenario? According to your logic, we should thank the doctor who went to school? The school who trained the doctor. The construction workers who built the school who trained the doctors so he could work in the hospital.

      We should then thank those who invented the rocks and sticks and glue to make the material to build the school who trained the doctor who works in the hospital?

      We should thank all of that but not God who gave them all life??? Where do the “thank you” starts and stop? Who qualified you to answer either question?

      By the way, thank you for your post or should I thank my dell computer for allowing me to read it… Shuks, I probably need to thank my internet and my internet provider, oh wait, what about my electricity…
      WHERE DO I START,WHERE DO I STOP? I guess, I will just say THANK YOU JESUS!

      • Zuggible

        Are you seriously arguing that a physician shouldn’t be thanked for saving someone’s life?

        You physically thank the person with whom you directly interact. They, in turn, do the same for the corresponding people. The patient thanks the doctor, the doctor (while in school) thanks their teachers, etc. You’re making this sound way more complicated than it is.

  • Martin

    Not a thing wrong with thanking God for the good things in your life. If that makes me less of a person then so be it! Maybe next time someone does that to you, tell them it bothers you. Instead of just complaining about it on here.

    • TrickQuestion

      What about the cursing of the same god for bad things happening?

    • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

      If you thank God when you should be thanking a human being who just busted their balls for you, then you’re not “less of a person”, you’re an asshole. Seriously, do you know how maddening it is to save sombody’s life and then hear a priest give himself and his imaginary boss credit for it to the person’s family? No mention that maybe imaginary boss could have stopped the person from nearly dying in the first place, nnnoooo! Fuck that shit. I thank the people who earn it.

      • Nzo

        I disagree Custy, I think thanking god DOES make someone less of a person. The sheer magnitude of both stupidity, and unawareness of how many people DIED while joe-blow got a parking spot is staggering.

        • TrickQuestion

          It also takes away from the individual achievements of the people praising it.
          If I do a good job, and worked your ass off, or even got lucky, to thank an invisible thing for it takes away a lot form your sense of accomplishment.
          Which, i guess is also a goal of the church. “Can’t survive/excel/live without “the jez”so you better give him credit for everything cuz you sure as hell didn’t do any of it yourself” keeps people from doing greater things than they might without it.

    • Skippy

      Well, Martin, the same could be said for your drive-by godbottery.

    • trj

      Of course if we actually do remark on it then you can be sure some Christian will blame us for being insensitive.

    • Tony

      Thank you Martin for your post! I stumbled onto this site and I am just taking back by such remarks. It was refreshing to read your post.
      THANK YOU JESUS…

  • exfundy

    remember All in the Family? Once Archie said they were going to pray before the meal to thank god for the food. Mike, (Meathead) then says, “Maybe you could ask him to lower his prices.”

  • ORAXX

    I’ll ‘thank god’, when I see an amputee grow a new limb.

    • Nzo

      >.< Science either has done this, or will soon – STEM CELLS FTW

      f*ck 'god'. Science has to catch up so artards can claim 'goddidit'

    • Noelle

      that’s the starfish and salamander god

  • Martin

    Sounds like someones jealous!!

    • TrickQuestion

      “My delusion is better than your delusion!”

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  • http://atipplingphilosopher.yolasite.com/ Jonathan M.S. Pearce

    I know this is sort of off-topic, but there is a tenuous link… I was watching the fairly Crass Season of the Witch with Nicholas Cage last night. The end sequence revolved around the goodies trying to stave off a demon whilst the priest spoke a ritual to exorcise the demon. Most of the goodies died whilst buying time for their matey to read the Latin. This made me think how theologically naive such films are. Why would a benevolent God demand that a ritual of Latin words be recanted in order for ‘His’ power to enact on banishing the demon? Surely, such ritual is utterly pointless in light of a benevolent God doing good for good reasons rather than because someone manages to reel off some nonsense.

    The connection with this post is intercessory prayer / thanks for intercessory action. God, with all his knowledge and wisdom is bound by his omnis to do the most loving things at every moment. Thus his mind and actions cannot be changed by prayer or ritual. He would do such things out of the goodness of the actions, not because someone demanded it or said the right words int he right order.

    Prayer and ritual have no logical part to play in God’s actions, as far as I can see. Thanks is even more ridiculous, since God knew he was going to do that since the beginning of time, and has no ability to do otherwise, given the constrainsts of omnibenevolence/potence/science.

  • Jen

    I ask this same question all the time. My brother brought up a good point last week when Chad Ochocinco tweeted “God is good” when he got signed with the Patriots. God really had anything to do with that? Seriously? Does God really care about the NFL?

    • http://theskippyreview.wordpress.com Skippy

      And if this god was so invested in the NFL, then why didn’t it handle the lockout? A lot of small towns that depend on the revenue generated by interest in training camps were almost up shit’s creek due to the lockout. Surely, “God” could have taken time out of its busy schedule of fucking over sub-Saharan Africa to offer a word or two of advice to the NFLPA.

    • Nzo

      Unacceptable response: “Of course, God cares more about getting you signed on with the Patriots than he does about the millions of starving children in Africa. Guess you’re just special.”

      • Jen

        God only gets credit for good things. Bad luck is just that. Bad luck. That seems so logical.

        • Melody

          Or it’s just the devil, as my family and former churches would have us believe.

  • Chiama

    All the nation and people that forget God will end up in hell

    • Nzo

      You’ll end up wasting the only life you have believing in fairy tales because you’re scared of the christian boogey-man (hell).

    • UrsaMinor

      I haven’t forgotten the Christian god at all. But I do not worship it, or any other.

    • http://theskippyreview.wordpress.com Skippy

      Whose god, Chiama?

      • chiama

        believe me guys there is a God who live in heaven. I don’t just know why is hard for you to believe. ok. tell me how did this world we are living come to be, if you give me a good explanation i will go along with you guys. tell me who made it.

        • TrickQuestion

          well, your say so is all the proof we needed! it’s just what we were all waiting for

          Hey guys chiama says there’s a god. Guess we better call it a day.

        • Melody

          So you’ve never heard of the Big Bang theory. I think you need to take some science classes before you even think about debating here. Debating–that would be of use to you. Thinking–study some philosophy before you try to take on people much more enlightened then yourself. Oh, and work on your spelling and grammar. People will always take you more seriously if you capitalize and punctuate.

        • UrsaMinor

          The very way that you phrased the question- “tell me who made it”- flags the fact that you haven’t thought about it very much. You’ve already made an unwarranted assumption. What are the logical possibilities?

          1. Your God made the universe.
          2. Some other being made the universe.
          3. Nothing made the universe. It came into being spontaneously.
          4. The universe has always existed, so the question of an origin is meaningless.

          You can’t just decide that Option #1 is correct without considering the evidence for the others.

          • Sunny Day

            I go with 4.

            The universe consists of Time and Space and Energy. Cause and Effect only functions within the boundaries of Time. You cannot have a “before time” scenario that has any meaning.

          • annoyed

            How does something come into being spontaneously? CAn that be replicated by science? no. You really have 2 options:
            1. The universe spontaeously came to be. In otherwords “something came from nothing”
            2. A God created it. God does not need a creator b/c the very essense of being God is that he always exhisted.

            • Jabster

              How does something come into being spontaneously? CAn that be replicated by science? no. You really have 2 options:
              1. God spontaeously came to be. In otherwords “something came from nothing”
              2. A God created it. God does not get a get out of gaol free on this point.

            • UrsaMinor

              This is remarkable illogical thinking.

              If you can assert that God is eternal and has always existed, I can assert with equal confidence that the material universe itself is eternal and has always existed.

        • Sunny Day

          <blockquote cite="" "tell me how did this world we are living come to be, if you give me a good explanation i will go along with you guys. tell me who made it." </blockquote cite=""

          I did last Tuesday.
          As for your explanation, Fuck You. I'm almighty, my reasons are mine alone and you cannot hope to comprehend them.

          Just be happy that I've revealed myself to you.

        • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

          I was having a lovely morning… And now there’s you. Meh. Going climbing instead. Can’t be arsed to talk to the stupid creatard.

  • http://jeffxstrawman.blogspot.com/ jeff

    Check out Asherah! She’s right there, next to Yahweh. Right now. Today. As you are reading this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ-P8ZvuKVw&feature=colike

    Jeff

  • Anu Anto

    God created this universe and living being including humans. All the human have very complex body and shape, very complex brain etc. Using these brain we have done lot of inventions and discoveries. With that same brain we are trying to judge God and his ways. Holy bible says that the intelligence of human is only foolishness to God. So when Jesus is thanked dont get angry. Is there any chance for clay in pot to argue with its mentor regarding its shape and purpose. we are clays to god hand and let him use us according to his Wish. For a believer, there is no co incidence in life rather a plan known by god. Even death is not something happening common, rather some thing that God allows in each ones personal life.

    • Sundog

      Ah, the “we are all children, trust in the father he knows better” argument. To which I have only to say: BS. The God of your Bible is a vicious, murderous brute. Even if you proved he existed – which you can’t – I still wouldn’t worship him. You don’t worship something less than yourself.

    • trj

      Interesting how your clay analogy completely dehumanizes us, reducing us to dumb matter that can be used without compunction by the divine clay maker. What a crude god you believe in.

    • UrsaMinor

      Like all religious people, you have failed to examine your underlying premises, let alone prove them. I.e., you have assumed that a god does exist, and that it is your god in particular. We don’t share those assumptions; they make no sense.

      I could offer you all the reasons in the world why it is important for you to be a good Hindu, but you would immediately shrug it off as irrelevant because you don’t believe in Hindu mythology and you don’t share the assumptions of the Hindu world-view. And this is how Christianity appears to non-Christians.

      The basic problem that you are facing is that to any outsider, any mythology looks equally implausible. And it is not enough to simply assert, “Yes, but my particular mythology happens to be true.” You need to provide evidence that is not circularly referential. Please don’t waste your time telling us that you know your god is real because the Bible says so, and that the Bible is reliable because it’s the word of your god.

      • Len

        Ursa, your reply should probably be required reading for anyone wishing to post on this site.

        • Malvond

          Definitely!

      • http://atipplingphilosopher.yolasite.com/ Jonathan M.S. Pearce

        I agree with Len. This is a wonderfully succinct and erudite exposition of the flaws of the poster’s poorly held views.

        Nice one.

  • jeff

    Here’s Yahweh and Asherah together for you!

    http://youtu.be/Wj0QMz20C4I

    http://youtu.be/3661LUl1Lik

  • Darwin

    You don’t have to deny the existence of an imaginary friend. It’s completely obvious to any sane person that your magic man doesn’t exist and the only “argument” you can use to convince us is a series of outlandish threats.

    Next time, just say “God will fuck you up.” since your belief in your cosmological version of a playground bully is based on just that statement.

    • Darwin

      Now I feel like an idiot because the comment I replied to has disappeared.

      • http://ohmatron.wordpress.com/ Custador

        Sorry Darwin! If it had actually said anything I would have left it up, regardless of offence levels – But a drive-by troll shouting “YOU’RE ALL GOING TO BURN IN HELL! BOW TO JEEEEESUS!” with no other message than that is just spam, and it’s not like some arsehole doesn’t say the same thing on here at least twice a day anyway. I mean, it they’re going to troll they could at least be original about it and entertain us a bit.

        • Darwin

          It’s okay. Just let me have the next one.
          Come TrickQuestion we shall ride away on our slightly annoyed steeds: WTF and Awwwkkkward.

    • UrsaMinor

      Not to worry, Darwin. Your post offers good, generic advice. If this were a D&D game, it would be the Swiss Army Knife of Rebutting.

  • TrickQuestion

    Feel better about yourself? yeah, i bet you have a good smug on right now.

  • Joe Zillmer

    Seems like you good folks got this thing all figured out…I would caution you not to base your opinion of God or lack thereof based upon the behavior/predilections of people that thank, praise, curse, beg, plead, cajole or otherwise incant-ate their perceived notion of who or whom God Almighty is…kinda like me deciding that all atheist mock, insult, belittle, condescend and basically please themselves with their mutual admiration society of deity denial…easy guys, don’t blame God or judge God based upon the behavior of those that say they know him the best…Let “sky daddy” as you call him bless you and keep you…and most of all, love you.

    • Nzo

      I’m constantly appalled at the amount of stupid that can be crammed into a single paragraph.

      No one needs to observe christians to know:
      1) the bible is a contradictory conglomeration of fairy tales
      2) the god of the bible is a bigoted, childish, stupid, lazy, evil, selfish, prick.

      Take one wild guess where you can find these things.

      Joe, it seems like you really have no clue about the website you just posted to. You seem to have no clue about atheists in general, and the ones here in particular.

      Not that it matters, but almost everyone here could SCHOOL %90 of the christian population on the bible. We don’t need moronic christians to show that your god is a moronic figment of your imagination.

      mutual admiration society

      Massive projection here. The denial is completely from your side of the court bud.

  • Tony

    According to the logic of this article, thanks should only be traced to its lowest common denominator. Instead of thanking you, they should have thanked the apartment owner for having a vacancy. And they should have thanked the bank for giving them the loan to the apartment owner to buy the apartment. Why should you and your wife be thanked? I suspect you feel your good deed needs to be acknowledge. Doesn’t that make you like GOD. But I digressy ~ thank you and your wife.

    But if thanks is traced to the lowest common denominator, it will still (at some point) point to GOD! He created the person who owns the bank, who approved the loan, who gave it to the person to buy the building, to have the vacancy and ultimately the apartment so you and your wife could feel special for helping family. THANK YOU JESUS (according to your knowledge).

    Finally, don’t worry. Trust me, at some point, on some day, you will acknowledge GOD. I just pray it is not too late. THANK YOU JESUS..

    PS
    My spell check in MS-WORD makes me spell satan with a capital “S”, please adhere to the same rule when addressing GOD!

    • http://fugodeus.com Nox

      Unlike Jesus, some of those other denominators can be shown to exist.

      PS
      Does it make you spell “Ms-Word”, “god”, or “thank you Jesus” in all caps. Cause that actually sounds like some kind of software error.

      • Tony

        Nox,

        Who do you thank for discovering electricity? Have you ever seen them?
        Who do you thank for discovering the color red or blue or green? Have you ever seen them?
        Who do you thank for discovering the television? Have you ever seen them?

        My guess is NO but you believe their historical records? Why not GOD or JESUS?

        Since when do we have to see someone or something to thank them? Who could ever be thanks according to that rule?

        NO software error, MS-WORD editing rules…

        • http://fugodeus.com Nox

          Who do I thank for discovering the color red?

          Do you mean that as an actual question?

          PS,
          “satan” is a title, same as “god”. Capitalizing “Lucifer” or “Jesus” or even “Yhvh” would make some degree of sense as those are names. You don’t have to do everything Microsoft tells you.

          PPS,
          Unlike Jesus, Benjamin Franklin thought to write his own gospel.

          • Tony

            Don’t do what Ms-Word tells you to do?? I can see you have no starting point and to that………there is no point?

            The “actual” questions were designed to spark the idea that all truth starts from somewhere. If you can believe the color red is red, you are in essence believe in something that you did not see at the time of invention or discovery?

            Try applying the same rule to the bible and you will be surprise how much you believe…

        • Custador

          Electricity was discovered by Farraday. Television was invented by John Logie Baird (as it happens, I’m related to one of his technicians, who’s still alive). Colour is simply how we perceive different wave-lengths of EM radiation in the visible spectrum.

          The reason to disbelieve the Bible is fairly straightforward: Because quite a lot of it is provably untrue.

          • Tony

            The reason to disbelieve the bible is straightforward??? Not sure your thesis here. If you can believe the color red is red, the capacity to believe the bible is in you. You choose NOT to believe.

            That is a different argument than it is just lubricious to believe.

            The point of the questions was to assert the idea that truth starts from somewhere… At some we all believe in people (stuff) we did not see??

            Why doesn’t that rule apply to the bible?
            Have you ever visited the Jerusalem? Have you ever visited Bethany? I would highly encourage you to take a trip to either of these places before you say you don’t believe? You will see stuff that was preserved from Jesus time on earth.

            • Zuggible

              Uhh… I don’t think “lubricious” means what you think it means…

            • UrsaMinor

              The reason to disbelieve the Q’uran is straightforward??? Not sure your thesis here. If you can believe the color red is red, the capacity to believe the Q’uran is in you. You choose NOT to believe.

              That is a different argument than it is just ludicrous to believe.

              The point of the questions was to assert the idea that truth starts from somewhere… At some we all believe in people (stuff) we did not see??

              Why doesn’t that rule apply to the Q’uran?
              Have you ever visited Jerusalem? Have you ever visited Mecca? I would highly encourage you to take a trip to either of these places before you say you don’t believe? You will see stuff that was preserved from Muhammed’s time on earth.

            • http://fugodeus.com Nox

              See here’s the thing Tony,

              The bible doesn’t just make claims that we can’t be sure are true.

              The bible makes several claims that we can be reasonably certain are not true.

              Matthew 27:52-53 claims that Jerusalem was overrun by zombies after Jesus’ crucifixion.

              Genesis 1:1-19 tells us that the Earth went through alternating periods of light and darkness for three days prior to the creation of the Sun.

              If you can understand why the bible is wrong about those things, the capacity to disbelieve the bible is in you.

  • Heather

    are you kidding with that story? ever thought about it this way: God gives each one of us free will, christian, atheist or not…. Sometimes the imperfections in others is there to bring out the perfection in US, not because God doesnt exist!!!! denying God’s existance doesnt make Him not exist, it just means your in denial. its ashame you wrote off God bc of some hypocrits… seems to me that those hypocrits have more power over you than you do yourself. Being spiritual doesnt mean being obsessed with being a chrisitan and going to services and preaching to anyone who will listen, do your research.. and really do it. dont go in it with the end result already determined in you mind either… we tend to get what we expect in life. give yourself a chance. there is something bigger and better out there, and it doesnt exist in a religion or a title or a place of worship…. it exists in YOU, and everyone else around you… its everything and everywhere in everyone all at once. denying it doesnt make it not the truth, the truth is the truth, just waiting for you to stop being so angry and open your eyes. good luck, its a dark world when you have no light. i once believed God didnt exist, darkest place i have ever been… and i got so sick of people preaching to me…and i was so fed up with the whole God thing…. that one day I YELLED AND CURSED AT “GOD” AND TOLD THAT @$#%%^^&&*()*&& IF He really existed to prove it!!!! and its been proven to me every day there after. i dare you to ask it be proven to you.. either way… IT IS NOT OUR DARKNESS THAT MOST FRIGHTENS US, ITS THAT WE ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN WE CAN COMPREHEND, ITS OUR LIGHT THAT MOST FRIGHTENS US. so why are you so scared?

    • Len

      denying it doesnt make it not the truth

      And wishing god was real doesn’t make him any more real.

      I’m happy for you that you had some sort of nice emotional response to your plea for help, but that doesn’t make God real – it just makes him your invisible friend.

    • Sunny Day

      “so why are you so scared?”

      Did you read what you wrote?
      You and every ignorant believer who thinks they have a direct line to a omnipotent deity and your accompanying con artists, priests and liars scare the shit out of every rational person who shares this planet with you.

      You’re fucking crazy, that’s why we’re scared.

    • Custador

      The spelling and punctuation in your post made Baby Jesus cry. I hope you’re proud of yourself.

  • Theory_of_I

    Truth? You must know that what you mean is YOUR truth, and except for an anecdote or two to which YOU assigned your own desired value you have no independently observable, much less verifiable evidence. It’s nice you are comfortable with your self-created views, but please don’t proselytize if you have no more than that to offer.

  • Jeseph

    How is it that a Moron like you can still walk upright and even know how to turn a computer on?

    Listen shit for brains, God isn’t a circus act. People are allowed to do whatever the want -PERIOD. That is what God does. He gives you free will.

    You thank God for beings alive and taking your last breath, because your next breath is guaranteed to NO ONE.

    Sadly Morons like you will meet God, for a brief second when he tell you to burn in hell.

    • Ty

      Ah, another data point in my theory on fundamentalists and their inability to sense irony.

    • Sunny Day

      I need to thank god for the stuff I’m already doing fine by myself?

      If only god showed up in the real world he wouldn’t have to have tell all those people to go burn in hell.

      Your god sounds like a really lazy schmuck.

  • Eve

    God gives us freewill so your allowed to have your opinion. I have seen people healed when their is no hope. In these circimstances do you say it is luck? When choices separate us from God and we choose not to belive in him. We are on our own and when bad things happen we blame God. Every person has a set number of days and those days are only known by God.

    I am Christian and when someone does something for me I appreciate it and tell them thank you and I also thank God.

    All Christians are not the same. I believe judge not lest be judged. I found this discussion imteresting…..thanks

    • Custador

      1) Please cite examples of God healing a condition that has never been known to go into spontaneous remission. Please also show medical records which demonstrate that the recipient of the healing was not also undergoing treatment with conventional medicine.

      2) If I save a life and somebody gives God credit for my actions, it pisses me off. Did they thank God for having a cardiac arrest? No, I bet they didn’t. But they’ll thank him for somebody else’s hard work bringing them back, won’t they? Oh yes :-/

      3) I firmly believe that we all have the right to judge one another – I can judge you, you can judge me. It’s part of the peer-pressure that keeps us all honest.

    • Kodie

      We are on our own and when bad things happen we blame God.

      Who are you including when you say “we”? When I read what you wrote, I felt like God=Nobody. I heard someone on TV the other day say “God only knows,” it’s a common expression but when I hear it, I think it’s an admission that “nobody knows.” We are all alone and you can’t handle the fact that nobody knows, so you make up a character who does, but conveniently withholds the information from us. When people are healed through faith alone – I would believe if it worked 100% instead of only sometimes. Prayer to god has the same effect as praying to a gallon of milk. I think people who are healed by medicine and also pray have a great chance of survival since the prayer has no effect on the medicine, but the medicine works.

      It’s not really a matter of opinion, but if you’re going to claim god exists, and that since he gave us freewill, we’re free to pretend that he doesn’t, you’re going to have to prove that god exists. You seem to think that we’re just ignoring the blatant fact that he’s there, and I don’t know why you think there both IS a god and THAT we’re angry with him.

    • Elemenope

      . I have seen people healed when their is no hope. In these circimstances do you say it is luck?

      Well…yeah. In circumstances in which all available knowledge indicates there is no hope, and yet someone prevails to overcome that circumstance, it is luck (from an atheistic point-of-view). Now, for a believer to, in such circumstances, attribute such extremely improbably events to divine providence actually makes a great deal of sense; if you believe in an intercessory God, then it follows that when no other explanation satisfactorily solves a particular riddle, it is *possible* that such a deity has acted.

      But there is a huge difference between there actually being no hope, and someone being mistaken from lack of info or bad judgment that there is no hope. For example, my youngest cat, who we adopted off the street after a friend brought her to us (and there were no no-kill shelters in the area that had spots available) was diagnosed very shortly after adoption with a nasty and almost certainly fatal case of feline gastroenteritis, complicated by roundworm. The vet declared that there was no hope, and suggested the kitten be euthanaized. We demurred, demanded treatment for the roundworm, and took to administering fluids and formula food by hand to keep her strength up while she fought the virus causing the enteritis. She survived. Now, the doctor had declared there was no hope, and she was very clearly wrong, but it would be just as wrong to indicate that the lack of detectable hope is consonant with an actual lack of hope, as we clearly hoped she would get better and acted to attempt to assure that that hope was maximized into an actual possibility the cat would survive.

      I would be willing to bet that much of the “there was no hope, but then a miracle occurred!” argument comes from a bad assessment of the actual probabilities in play. Sure, when a doctor says “that patient is screwed” and then the patient pulls through, there is some leeway to argue that the gap could be filled by God or whatever other invisible agent one happens to believe in–it’s not, strictly speaking, a pernicious thing to say–but that doesn’t tend to be the criteria that Christians use to attach the notion of a miracle to improbable events.

      And trust me when I say that after waking up every day for two weeks covered in kitten roundworm-infested diarrhea (as a necessary adjunct to keeping her warm and comforted every night at a time when she didn’t have bowel control) , I’d be fairly pissed if someone had the temerity to suggest that God was the primary agent in saving her, instead of the proximate ministrations of care that she received from us.

      • Custador

        “I have an apology to make. I’m afraid I’ve made a big mistake. I turned my face away from you, Lord.

        I was too blind to see the light. I was too weak to feel Your might. I closed my eyes; I couldn’t see the truth, Lord.

        But then like Saul on the Damascus road, you sent a messenger to me, and so…

        I have had the truth revealed to me. Please forgive me all those things I said. I’ll no longer betray you, Lord. I will pray to you instead.

        And I will say “Thank you, thank you, thank you God. Thank you, thank you, thank you God.”

        Thank you God for fixing the cataracts of Sam’s mum.

        I had no idea but it’s suddenly so clear now. I feel such a cynic. How could I have been so dumb?

        Thank you for displaying how praying works: a particular prayer in a particular church. Thank you Sam for the chance to acknowledge this omnipotent opthamologist.

        Thank you God for fixing the cataracts of Sam’s mum. I didn’t realize that it was so simple, but you’ve shown a great example of just how it can be done.

        You only need to pray in a particular spot to a particular version of a particular god, and if you pull that off without a hitch, he will fix one eye of one middle-class white bitch.

        I know in the past my outlook has been limited. I couldn’t see examples of where life had been definitive. But I can admit it when the evidence is clear, as clear as Sam’s mum’s new cornea.

        That’s extremely clear! Extremely clear!

        Thank you God for fixing the cataracts of Sam’s mum. I have to admit that in the past I have been skeptical but Sam described this miracle and I am overcome!

        How fitting that the sighting of a sight-based intervention should open my eyes to this exciting new dimension. It’s like someone put an eye chart on the wall in front of me and the top five letters say: I C G O D.

        Thank you, Sam, for showing how my point of view has been so flawed. I assumed there was no God at all but now I see that’s cynical. It’s simply that his interests aren’t particularly broad.

        He’s largely undiverted by the starving masses, or the inequality between the various classes. He gives you strictly limited passes, redeemable for surgery or two-for-one glasses.

        I feel so shocking for historically mocking. Your interests are clearly confined to the ocular. I bet given the chance, you’d eschew the divine and start a little business selling contacts online.

        Fuck me Sam, what are the odds that of history’s endless parade of gods that the God you just happened to be taught to believe in is the actual one and he digs on healing, but the AIDS-ridden African nations, the victims of the plague or the flood-addled Asians, but healthy, privately-insured Australians with common and curable corneal degeneration?

        This story of Sam’s has but a single explanation: a surgical God who digs on magic explanations. It couldn’t be mistaken attribution of causation, born of a coincidental temporal correlation, exacerbated by a general lack of education vis-a-vis physics in Sam’s parish congregation. And it couldn’t be that all these pious people are liars. It couldn’t be an artifact of confirmation bias, a product of groupthink, a mass delusion, an Emperor’s New Clothes-style fear of exclusion.

        No, it’s more likely to be an all-powerful magician than the misdiagnosis of the initial condition, or one of many cases of spontaneous remission, or a record-keeping glitch by the local physician.

        No, the only explanation for Sam’s mum’s seeing: they prayed to an all-knowing superbeing, to the omnipresent master of the universe, and he liked the sound of their muttered verse.

        So for a bit of a change from his usual stunt of being a sexist, racist, murderous cunt, he popped down to Dandenong and just like that, used his powers to heal the cataracts of Sam’s mum – of Sam’s mum!

        Thank you God for fixing the cataracts of Sam’s mum! I didn’t realize that it was such a simple thing. I feel such a dingaling, what ignorant scum!

        Now I understand how prayer can work: a particular prayer in a particular church in a particular style with a particular stuff and a particular book for particular problems that aren’t particularly tough, and for particular people, preferably white, for particular senses, preferably sight – a particular prayer in a particular spot, to a particular version of a particular god.

        And if you get that right, He just might take a break from giving babies malaria and pop down to your local area to fix the cataracts of your mum!”

        Sam’s Mum’s Catarats, Tim Minchin. If you ever get a chance to see this live with Tim and a full orchestra, take it. It’s brilliant.

        • Elemenope

          Excellent!

          • Custador

            When we saw the show he got as far as “So for a bit of a change from his usual stunt of being a sexist, racist, murderous cunt,” before a very rotund, very purple-faced woman stormed out, dragging a reluctant-looking man with her :-)

            • Elemenope

              Ah, so that was the context of the storm-out you described when you went to see his show some months ago. Yeah, I can definitely see believers having a hard time handling their God being called “a sexist racist murderous cunt”, even with it being quite deserved.

            • T

              I wonder what in the world she was doing there in the first place. He’s not exactly shy about his thoughts.

              PS…I absolutely love that guy! :)

            • Elemenope

              I imagine he was the one with the real interest in going, and she was the +1 out of simple relationship duties.

  • Alheri ishaku

    A blindman will never appreciate d usefulness of eyes because he does have one. So it is to someone who doesn’t have Jesus as saviour. You can never understand why you need to tell Jesus thank you but if you do, you’ll be doing that daily. Jesus loves you and he wants to save you from spiritual blindness.

    • Sunny Day

      Sense, you make none.
      I guess blind people just love bumping into shit and stubbing their fingers, toes and shins. They don’t need or even want eyes right?

      If Jesus or even you, want to save me from spiritual blindness he could always provide evidence.

  • Alheri ishaku

    The truth is, u did not creat yourself neither it’s your idea to live on earth. Therefore one day you must definately die and will meet the creator of heaven and earth who you don’t want to say thank you to.

    • Kodie

      The truth is, you don’t know what happens after you die, aside from decomposition. You won’t know you’re decomposing, though, just like you won’t know if anyone came to your funeral, or followed your instructions for how that was supposed to go down.

    • trj

      It always amuses me when a religious person says “The truth is…” followed by his personal opinion for which there is no support whatsoever.

    • Mogg

      I also love the bizarre use of the word ‘therefore’. You didn’t choose to be here, therefore you will die? I fail to see the direct connection, myself.

  • Alheri ishaku

    Is it because you don’t know what will follow after your funeral that will make you be unwise? Make sense by coming to Jesus who understands your weakness and is ready to help you live the life that God has given you. At present, you’re full of deception from the Devil which of course is what he’s here to do. Better come to Jesus to receive salvation from sin and sorrow.

    • Azel

      You are willing to end in Jahannam because you refused to accept Allah ? Don’t follow Shaitan my friend but convert while you still can !

    • trj

      Actually, the Devil isn’t needed to turn us away from Chritianity when you’re doing such a great job of it yourself. Go perform your mindless preaching somewhere else.

    • Kodie

      You can make up all the wishes you want, I’m not afraid.

  • Alheri ishaku

    However u put it, is not what is matters. The true still remains, no Jesus no life. Friends Jesus loves you the way you are. When you come to him, he’ll take away your burden and will show you the path to follow, it’s only tru Jesus that you’ll know how to say thank you Jesus.

    • Elemenope

      If Jesus loves me the way I am (an atheist), then why are you demanding that I change?

    • UrsaMinor

      And why is it that Christians always jump into a debate assuming that the existence of their Jesus is an established fact? It is silly to assert that people will suffer real-world consequences from not interacting with a hypothetical entity.

      I assume you have some reason to believe that Jesus is real? If so, you might begin by presenting your evidence.

    • Kodie

      Could you describe my burden? You only wish you were sure, and you are arrogantly certain that I need Jesus, what if this is all a big scam to get people to give the church money?

      • trj

        Surely Jesus would never do something like that!

        • Alheri ishaku

          Yes friend, Jesus is not looking for people’s money. Come to him for everything.

          • Kodie

            So, how much money did you give him so far?

            • http://W Alheri ishaku

              I don’t have money to give him. All He needs from me is my devotion.

            • Sunny Day

              Why does god need a starship?

            • Kodie

              And your devotion is expressed to Jesus by pestering others about your delusion? I must say, you’re doing a terrible job of it. I’m not convinced in the least that you are saved or have eternal life, only that someone turned on their internet box and claimed that, not even with any type of shabby attempts at logic, or lining out examples of your oh-so-many poor reasoning abilities. I’m not even convinced that you’re convinced that what you say is true! I have no idea why you think what you say is true or convincing, such that I barely even could tell you are serious.

    • Bill

      “Jesus loves you the way you are.”

      Jesus is a Billy Joel song? Excellent.

      Also, what Nope said.

  • Alheri ishaku

    Myfriend Elemenope, you cannot understand someone from afar if you don’t get closer to him, no matter how you do. Jesus loves you and the only way you can enjoy his love is when you get closer to him. Come to Jesus and be saved from sin and sorrow.

    • Elemenope

      So he doesn’t love me how I am.

      I see.

      You know, I’ve successfully maintained a long-term long distance relationship with another flesh and blood human. Why is this so difficult for your God?

      Oh, I forgot, he’s “jealous”.

      • trj

        “Love me or burn in the Hell I created for you”. That seems to be the kind of love and acceptance Jesus is capable of.

        Most ordinary people I know are capable of being a lot more loving and accepting than that.

        Maybe Jesus just has very low self-esteem. He can’t bear that people might not love him – so much so that he has to threaten them into loving him.

  • Alheri ishaku

    @ ursaminor, Jesus is truely existin since there is no record of his death. You and I know that Jesus came to the earth, did the normal thing that people do, died and resurrected. Now he’s in heaven wit God the father. He cares for whoever that show how much he understands his work on the cross. You’re welcome

    • Jabster

      I think I can speak for many people here … just fuck off with your boring, stupid, idiotic posts. What do you think they will achieve expect to make you look a bigger fuck nuggest than you already have. Go and play the mindless twat drivel with someone who cares.

      Oh and if this isn’t clear for you … fuck off you cock spanner.

      • http://W Alheri ishaku

        Thank you sir. God bless you.

    • UrsaMinor

      That’s the dumbest thing I ever heard. You are simply assuming that Jesus exists and expecting everyone else to do the same without question. Again, where is the evidence?

      • Bill

        Isn’t this what every believer does?

        • UrsaMinor

          Yup. It’s like a cult or something.

          • Bill

            Yeah but they aren’t cool like The Cult.

            “She Sells Sanctuary!”

        • http://W Alheri ishaku

          What?

          • UrsaMinor

            Where is the evidence that Jesus is anything more than a fictional character out of an old book?

          • Len

            And while we’re at it, where is the evidence that the Invisible Pink Unicorn and/or Flying Spaghetti Monster (and all the myriad of earlier gods and godesses) aren’t the ones to worship. There’s no evidence of their deaths either.

  • Alheri ishaku

    @ Kodie, your burden are those issues that are disturbing your life that you don’t know how to deal with them. Jesus knows about what you are passing through, he can help you out without your effort. Come to the saviour and be saved.

    • Yoav

      What jesus clearly doesn’t know is how to use the reply button.

      • http://W Alheri ishaku

        Don’t worry Jesus will visit you today, since that is wat you want.

        • Sunny Day

          What I really want is a Ham Sandwich. When will Jesus be by with that one?

          • Len

            I hear he makes a good fish sandwich. Enough to feed thousands.

      • http://W Alheri ishaku

        Thanks for the correction

    • Kodie

      Tell your imaginary friend to tell you that I told him you’re delusional, and he’s not real. I read it in the bible. I read very closely in the bible, it says that it’s not real, in the bible. If you don’t believe me, READ YOUR BIBLE!

      • http://W Alheri ishaku

        Where in the Bible? Did you read the book of John 3?

        • Kodie

          Why don’t you believe me? You’re obviously not very serious bible-reader.

          • http://W Alheri ishaku

            What can you offer? But Jesus can give you eternal life.

            • Kodie

              Your imaginary friend didn’t give you eternal life. I don’t think he’s given you 12 or 13 years of life yet, although perhaps as many as 80+/-. You’re in some demographic that’s naive and new to the internet. And you have no money. A lot of people have no money, sure, but 12-year-olds, good chance they don’t have any money, while an octogenarian would have been tithing for about 60 or so years, or at least as long as they’ve been born-again.

              I bet you think I’m a genie now.

      • trj

        I agree with Kodie. Even worse, I think you must be a demon, Alheri. Or should I say HELLHeri? Only a demon would say such stupid things as you do, in a devious plot to make Christians look stupid.

        Tell your buddy Satan we’re not falling for it. No true Christian can be as stupid as you pretend to be.

  • http://W Alheri ishaku

    Jesus is where you are, if you think i’m lying then invite him into your life right now. He says ‘ Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. if you hear my voice and open the door, I’ll come in and eat with you. And you will eat with me.

    • Sunny Day

      will he BYOB?

    • NoE

      You do know that vampires do that very thing. They also need to be invited in. Hmmmmmm

    • Kodie

      So, I’ve invited Jesus. And he knocked!@ And I opened the door. He looks just like the maintenance man in my building, what do you think of that? So I tried to eat with him, but he said he already ate, and he wouldn’t let me eat. He said there’s a leak downstairs and he needs to fuck up my bathtub and tear out part of the wall to get at the pipes. But don’t worry, he was done with that over 3 days’ time, during which I couldn’t use the shower. And I couldn’t run any water while he was there.

      Is this what eternal life feels like? I’m feeling it, I really really am. Without Jesus, one day I might have fallen downstairs naked in my bathtub through the floor. I think Jesus is a gremlin. This bit of advice you have given me hasn’t helped me that you promised, but you do sound like you know what you’re talking about. I don’t know why I think you do. I think you must know what you’re talking about since that’s all you know how to say.

      • http://W Alheri ishaku

        The message of the cross seems so foolish to those that are perishing and also the devil has blind folded your mind that you hardly accept the truth. No wonder the good thing in you is insult and all foolish words, i pray that one day Jesus will deliver you, and you’ll be sorry for all you’ve said. Jesus still love you all even as you’re imperfect.

        • Kodie

          I don’t know where you came from or what you hope to accomplish, but you’re kind of a dick. Jesus came over, I told you, he said tell Alheri ishaku he is a super-dick. Then he fixed the pipes in the wall in my tub. A miracle! Truly, if you do not believe what I say, why should I believe what you say? I have 10,000 hula hoops and when I’m in the holy spirit, I can hoop them all at the same time? Can your god do that?

          When are you going to start making any sense? Blind boy? (Or girl).

          • Jabster

            Hula-hoops you say – well if they’re barbecue flavour then I’m not sure I should have just got that spider crab!

        • Jabster

          Well a couple of points arse nugget … Jesus made us imperfect in the first place, according to you, and if Jesus loves us so much why is he going to send us to hell if we don’t believe in him.

          p.s. Which part of fuck off cock spanner did you not understand?

          p.p.s. I’ll pray for you …

          p.p.p.s. The devil part – the god you believe in knew about that in advance didn’t he, so what sort of god do you worship?

          • http://W Alheri ishaku

            I worship the living God who loves you, and don’t want you to go to hell. Come to him and escape hell.

            • Kodie

              You’re afraid of hell. What does that have to do with my super awesome LORD !!!! You didn’t carefully read your bible. You have turned away from the lord and you will end up in hell!

            • Custador

              You’re really not good at getting hints or polite requests, are you? Let me make this easy for you:

              1) Evangelism breaches our commenting rules;
              2) Spamming breaches our commenting rules;
              3) Spamming evangelism breaches our commenting rules.

              You have been politely asked to stop, twice. Is there any part of this that I need to explain to you in simpler terms?

            • Bill

              Who created this hell?

            • Yoav

              Basically you say that we either pay jesus or we may have some nasty accident, here in reality we call that kind of thing a protection racket and it can result in some serious jail time. Do you have jesus address so I can file a complaint with the police at the proper jurisdiction.

        • Custador

          Stop spamming please. Balloo Mc.Gibbon, chief of Teh Srvr Munkehs, is starting to get tetchy about it.

    • UrsaMinor

      - Frames everything as if the truth of Christianity is beyond question
      - Totally oblivious to the existence of non-Christian religious thought.
      - Unable to even hear repeated requests to explain why he believes what he believes

      Yup. This one is perilously close to winning his True Christian™ merit badge.

      • http://W Alheri ishaku

        You’re all good pals. I love you and I know that someday you’ll all accept Jesus as lord and personal saviour and we shall meet at His feet. Continue to follow up the scripture as you gain your salvation. Gudmorni.

        • http://talkorigins.org jatheist

          So many of us ~were~ full on Christians in our youth… you seem to be under the impression that we haven’t looked into Christianity in any detail – this is just plain wrong. It was actually reading the bible in full that drove many of us away from that religion (and also made us realize what a total dick the god of the bible truly is.)

          Until you bring some evidence, ~any~ evidence, I will continue to live my life without religion.

          • UrsaMinor

            Don’t hold your breath. Alheri deals in faith, not evidence, and I’m willing to bet that he is completely ignorant of any of the non-Christian beliefs that he refuses to acknowledge the existence of. In other words, his decision to be a Christian is a total shot in the dark; it was chosen through ignorance and not knowledge.

            It’s been kind of like discussing the merits of different makes of cars with somebody who has only ever driven a Ford and is incapable of even acknowledging that there are Hondas on the freeway.

          • http://W Alheri ishaku

            God of mercy.

            • UrsaMinor

              What is that supposed to mean? It makes zero sense given the context of the post to which you are “responding” (and I use the term very tentatively). It is nothing but a disconnected phrase, and another example of a non-answer.

              OK, Alheri, you’re Christian and you want us all to be Christian too. We get that. We got that from your very first post. And nothing that you have said since that first post has amounted to anything different from “I’m Christian and I want you to be Christian too.” You can stop hammering that particular nail any time. Yesterday would be nice.

              You have demonstrated repeatedly that you do not listen to non-Christians, and do not want to engage them in a real two-way conversation. This is why we find you annoying.

  • http://W Alheri ishaku

    I’m so sorry UrsaMinor, I don’t think I really want to hurt you or something. I luv you all.

    • Elemenope

      Then perhaps you should consider listening to the people you supposedly love. In my experience, listening is a non-optional component of actual love. You perhaps should reconsider your extravagant claims of loving everyone on that basis.

  • Ranz

    Bunch on Whiners looking for praise…If you find that there is no logic in believing in God, ok so what, wont change the fact that many people believe in God, do you think we care? its your choice. I think other than manners you ALLLLLL need to learn to respect others…what a bunch of kids you are, and the excuses and reason you give, please grow up !
    you know what kind of people you are ?Bullies

    Your ignorance of spirituality is Incredible, you dont even understand wht ppl do it yet you whine…You guys are so incredibly smart, smarter than everyone…lucky you

    • Elemenope

      Don’t you feel better, now that you’ve gotten all that anger off your chest?

      Have an Internet cookie. Heck, have all the cookies. My treat.

    • trj

      Thank you for setting things straight. I’m sure Christians are glad they have a spokesperson as mature and respectful as you.

  • scott

    Having attempted discussions with atheists before I know their first rule is, “have a quick comeback ready,” so I don’t don’t make this statement in an attempt to argue. Every single thing you said, if you would stop for one second and consider the possibility that God exists and may very well know what is best for everyone, makes a Christian say thank you to God even more because of one simple thing….faith! The proof of things unseen, for what has man done if he believes after he has seen God? But to believe without God being proved is pure faith and by faith you are saved! Did you ever consider that every good thing that happens is by the hand of God no matter who delivered it? You argue and argue but you will never understand his true blessing capabilities till you develop some faith. If he was great enough to create the whole universe with just a thought don’t you think he’s great enough to know what’s best for everyone? Whether they like it or not!

    • Troutbane

      @Scott
      This is the exact argument you are making:
      Having attempted discussions with atheists before I know their first rule is, “have a quick comeback ready,” so I don’t don’t make this statement in an attempt to argue. Every single thing you said, if you would stop for one second and consider the possibility that Flying Spaghetti Monster exists and may very well know what is best for everyone, makes a Pastafarian say thank you to Flying Spaghetti Monster even more because of one simple thing….faith! The proof of things unseen, for what has man done if he believes after he has seen Flying Spaghetti Monster? But to believe without Flying Spaghetti Monster being proved is pure faith and by faith you are saved! Did you ever consider that every good thing that happens is by the hand of Flying Spaghetti Monster no matter who delivered it? You argue and argue but you will never understand his true blessing capabilities till you develop some faith. If he was great enough to create the whole universe with just a thought don’t you think he’s great enough to know what’s best for everyone? Whether they like it or not!

      So, Truth, correct? And if not, whats the difference?

    • Sunny Day

      Scott why do you deny us the courtesy of the quick comeback?
      It allows us to expend the same thoughtless effort you just did when you sermonize and ask us to play what if games and spout off about things that you have no evidence and want no evidence for.

    • Yoav

      Chocolate dipped jesus H fukcing christ on a stick, it’s so obvious now that you explained it Scott, I can’t believe I didn’t get it the first 35874891203 times some smug christian posted the same inane argument (using the term very loosely).

  • scott

    I feel sorry and pity for you people, I will pray for you because that’s all I have. Where as you all don’t even have that, by your own choice, But you do have great quips and fancy blasphemous words. congrats!

    • Elemenope

      Pity is a crummy addiction to indulge in.

    • Jabster

      I’ll take a great quip over a prayer anytime – I mean what has prayer every done for us?

      Besides that, a great quip takes real talent – anybody can pray.

    • Troutbane

      Still haven’t answered my question. Why, without proof, we should worship your god over any other? If all it takes is faith without proof, then why do so many people try to prove to us their version of god is correct. Do you have faith or proof? If you have proof, show it. If its faith alone, explain why your is unique and correct.

    • Bill

      Why would you pity us? Can you explain?

  • scott

    I’m not telling, demanding, or trying to prove anything to you, my proof is in my heart and my beliefs for me, what i call faith you will never understand till you open your hearts to possibilities. But its much more fun and cool for you to make your case by bashing mine. You will never chang me nor I you but its my Christian duty to try and I have, now as scripture states, if they won’t listen, knock the dust from your sandles and move on….hope one day you wake up, good bye

    • Troutbane

      Actually, I was asking a legitimate question for which you have no answer because the answer makes you feel bad. Good luck to you.

    • Sunny Day

      So empty sermonizing is all you meant to do. That’s a sad faith indeed. I’m so very sorry.

    • http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite

      Troutbane, as pointed out, did not bash you. He asked you a question, and he didn’t do it for fun and coolness. You still have failed to answer it and thus you have failed Jesus. You didn’t make much effort with your supposed Christian duty to ‘try’ because you did not even offer an attempt at an answer, you have simply made assertions and vaguely waffled about what’s in your heart. Your heart isn’t reality. Scripture states many things, a lot of them contradictory, so appealing to it isn’t going to help.

      Can you truly do no better? If not, then why do you expect anyone to take your faith seriously? Be honest with yourself – why do you take it seriously?

  • scott

    Trouthbane, I guess there’s no way for me to prove to you which deity is the correct one. As i said before its in my heart. I believe that every beings the truth built into him by God and its up to them to accept or deny it. For me, my heart and head know for a fact that my God is the only God and that his son, our savior, is Jesus. If you chose another god or nothing at all and refuse to hear what can I possibly say that would make you think twice? I would say however

  • scott

    That most if not all atheists were to confess the truth, we would all hear how you’ve been hurt in the past somehow someway and blame God. Refusing to believe is payback for a bad time in your life instead of what it was meant for…. To teach. You didn’t grasp the meaning of a lesson in life that hurt you, a death, a divorce, a lost job whatever, got mad and abandoned the only God. I say you can still cone home…..pray!

    • Troutbane

      Wow, sure are assuming alot there aren’t you Scott. Its not true for me. I don’t know about the others here, but I never believed in “God” enough to blame him. I’m not sure what evangelical website you are getting these points from, but these are silly assumptions concocted to make your arbitrary belief system more real. I do not refuse to believe; I would believe in the first supernatural all powerful being that could prove its existence. There has been nothing to believe in. I could just as well say that you refuse to believe in Santa Claus or Cthulhu. Or Cthulhuclaus.
      Many atheists on here (and you can read their posts regarding this) were evangelicals who started asking questions, questions for which apologetic bullet points and feel good chanting could not answer. Please, feel free to read the other posts here, especially Nox. And, please do look up the Bible passages he references. See for yourself. If you are lucky, your tribal-think cognitive dissonance won’t kick in and a seed of reason will be sown.
      The only thing you have to fear from reason is that you might be wrong, and since you know you are right, what is there to fear?

    • Elemenope

      Moving past the whole “…and we’re talking about fairy tales” part, how exactly does a person abandon that which they never had? I never believed in a God, any God; from as young as I can remember the notion that a super-being created me and you and everything else, yet only cares about a tiny corner of that, and most peculiarly only cares about a seemingly random collection of behaviors by one incredibly self-regarding species at that, always struck me as half-baked and implausible.

      For what it’s worth, I’ve had many educational and edifying conversations with men and women of faith, and one of the things they all held in common was that they weren’t presumptuous to the point of obnoxiousness about what must “have happened to me” to result in the beliefs that I do hold. Jesus, according to the stories, called upon people to give witness and spread his offer of forgiveness. I’m pretty sure that, if he did that, he sure didn’t mean “be a smug superior-sounding prick to everyone who doesn’t believe in me”, as that would drive people away from him, rather than toward.

    • Nox

      You started in your first post on this thread by telling us faith is supposed to be without evidence. That it’s more honorable to believe something with no reason to think it’s true.

      In that same post (and in everything you’ve said since then) you jumped right from ‘there’s no reason to believe and you shouldn’t need one’ to ‘there’s something wrong with you if you don’t believe’. And now you’re up to ‘you just don’t believe because you’re mad at god’.

      The people you are talking to do not share your belief that believing something without any reason to think it’s true is honorable (or a good way to find truth). If you want to convince anyone here of anything you’ll need to give us some reason to think it is true.

    • Mogg

      Um… okay. Like, if I’m mad at a real person, a possible response would be to refuse to believe in them? Belief doesn’t work that way, Scott.

    • Sunny Day

      Scott tell me more about why I don’t believe in faerie tales.

    • http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite

      Why would you suggest to an atheist to pray? It’s like saying to a Muslim “have a ham sandwich” or telling an amputee “go for a run”. What’s wrong with you? Do you understand that other minds do not necessarily have the same thoughts in their head as are in yours? Again, all you are doing is telling people what you assume they think, and what you assume they ought to do about it, based on nothing. What result do you expect to get from telling a non-believer to engage in a practice that require faith?

      It’s especially odd that you think suggesting prayer will do anything when you continually dodge questions and refuse to offer any reason to follow your line of thinking. Also, I still want to know why you take your faith so seriously, bearing in mind that you admit to having no reason to believe it.

  • ShebaBarb

    Wow~ Interesting how different people think about life. I wonder if their is anyone who feels they are able to give breath to their self or to cause their self to wake up in the morning or what ever time it is they wake up? Most people regardless of how much they profess not to believe in God when something horrific happens they cry out “Oh God” and often times when something happens people seek out someone that knows the Lord God Almighty and their lifestyle reflects it.~~Ephesians 5:20 ~~Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. So their is nothing wrong with giving God the Glory (thanks) then turning around saying “thank-you” to the person for whatever it is they have done for you. Even so if you do something for someone and if you do it from your heart you will not expect anything other then to be a blessing.

  • Andrew Sands

    I am a christian and I give thanks to jesus but I do like to show love and respect by thanking our fellow friends and neighbors on earth when they eg, pay for a meal, give food or something, I believe we should always give thanks to people other wise your just rude!!!


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