10 Best “Good Guy Lucifer” Memes

There’s a new meme going around dubbed Good Guy Lucifer, and it’s pretty darn funny.

Here are my 10 favorites (with a bonus!):

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Where the Fire Comes From
Romance at Mars Hill
You Can't Keep a Bad Man Down
Bob Cargill on the Holy Grail
  • kentuckyfreethinker

    Awesome! I always thought he totally blew Johnny away too.

    • georgiaatheist

      Johnny’s piece, while fun, doesn’t have nearly the variety of that of Satan’s piece. Plus, Satan had a much more kickin groove.

      • Durka

        He did have a band of demons though. Without the back up I think Johnny would of kicked him right in the asshole.

      • Jack

        The devil sucked at violin. Don’t listen to the groove, or the band of demons, listen to the fiddle playing. It sounds terrible. XP

        • Dylan

          No, you just don’t want to admit Satan played better than Johnny.

          • Bob

            it was his demons that added texture to his fiddle solo. Johnny kicked his ass with speed and technique.

            • sam

              Johnny’s fiddle part was way better. I’d wager some of the best fiddle playing ever.

            • andy

              The devil was the only judge of that fiddle contest, he could have played one out of tune note while Jonny played the greatest solo ever, and still said “Nope my piece was better, your soul is mine.” and walked away with his soul.

      • sue

        the images above are from the comic called Lucifer. An epic journey about Lucifer trying to live with free will. He leaves hell to run a wine bar in LA and defy Gods will. Then he realises that was gods will. But the main grit from the story is acceptance of the existence of the manifestation of ideas and the loopholes we can find to justify our perspective. if an idea is real to you then it’s real. if you believe in god or lucifer then they exist. we have our imagination and our awe of our creation and the world, thats part of being human, how boring if we didnt create stories and faith to keep our awe of everything in our thoughts and to give grandeur to them.why do we have to argue with each other and feel the need to belittle other peoples fait.h. summation: more people should read comics and open their minds to new ideas – the messed up world of unreality in comics is scarily close to the reality we live in. maybe some people who have commented here could do with a dose of comic wisdom in how characters can communicate and co-exist.

        • shedontusejelly

          nobody reads long opinionated paragraphs aka dumb it down, this here is the internet

          • Myrtlejoy

            I got about 3 sentences into the previous post, got bored, moved on, and read your’s. Timing is everything, right?

            • Lisa

              yeah. me three.

            • JJ

              Am I the only one in the Internet who reads the large paragraph comments? Quite obviously those people have a lot to say and go to lengths to try explaining everything clearly, so why not take the extra 10 seconds out of your oh so busy lives to read them? What are you gonna miss, 1 or 2 clicks of the Stumble button?

            • supercatski

              yeah, got about halfway through JJ’s….stumble!

            • Zytrate

              I got halfway thr

          • jordan

            people who read it usually don’t comment b/c it’s self-explaining. people who say tl;dr and then take time to post comments…

            haha i’m explaining stupid to stupid.

            • zaktzu

              LOL best.

          • Amy

            Look, God forbid (and Satan too) that anyone read a book anymore… You know, those long boring things your teacher kept handing you? But if you seriously can’t get through thoughts cohesive enough to form a paragraph, and would instead rather see a thousand people say, LOL, OMG… Then our country might be in even worse shape than I thought.

          • Rosemary Lyndall Wemm

            Good grief! Can’t you concentrate long enough to read more than one sentence?

            • UrsaMinor

              Not if the writer can’t be bothered to punctuate and capitalize. If she’s not willing to invest a little time in her writing, you can hardly expect other people to.

          • Rion

            I read the whole post…

        • Nick

          I completely agree. If people could recognize the beauty in ideas and stories, there would be a lot less suffering and a lot more joy. If only people could see each other in a similar way…

        • me

          I read the post because I’m not a dolt. It took like a minute. The next two replies caught me by surprise. Read. Things.

        • saywhat

          Hmmm, I don’t need to believe in fairy tale shit to find life amazing. Isn’t it good enough to awe by itself, without adding bullshit?

        • CakeFarts

          If you cannot explain it simply, you must not understand it well

    • Zach

      Honestly, from a violinists standpoint, Johnny’s piece had a much larger range than the Devil’s. While double stops can be tricky at first, they’re pretty simple once you get the hang of them. Also Johnny’s piece was cleaner.

      Mad prop’s to the Devil’s band of demons though, those guys have some soul.

      • Other Zach

        The Devil’s band did an excellent job.

      • Amanda

        Millions of soul(s), one could even say.

        • Artor

          They probably use real catgut, with the live cats still attached.

          • Anonymous

            Catgut isn’t made from cat.

            • http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite

              Patheos needs a new blog – pedants’ anonymous.

            • UrsaMinor

              Catgut isn’t made from cat.

              If there are cats consigned to Hell, it almost certainly is.

    • Thomas

      I made that meme (the Johnny one). Makes me happy to see it here.

      • God

        I made you. Makes me happy to see you here.

        Not really.


        • God

          PS. I’m not an old white guy.

          • Justin Cayce

            So seeing as you brought it up, then… Are you a young black chick? Last I heard you were everyeffinthing. So maybe you should say…
            “I’m not JUST an old white guy.”

            ps. Are you Lucifer too?

            • Azel

              @Justin Cayce
              Problem is, either he’s Lucifer and he banished/tortured… himself, or he’s not and he’s not everything. And if he’s Lucifer, there’s another problem : if he’s omnibenevolent, that means Lucifer is too, if Lucifer’s descrition as THE evil is correct, that means God is THE evil, and no better master than Lucifer.

            • jordan

              it’s all jewish black magic

        • Tom Vincent

          How come you’re not tough enough to beat up Satan? :)

    • Joesomethinorother

      “Then a band of demons joined in and it sounded somthin’ like this…” Right there Johnny won, it was a battle between Johnny and the devil. not Johnny and a band.

      • Ian

        “I told you once you son-of-a-b*****, I’m the best there’s ever been.” – That would be the sin of Pride…Johnny lost his soul anyway right there.

    • Bridget

      I did too lol. I thought I was the only one.

      Btw, glad to see a fellow KY freethinker!

      • OrugTor

        There’s two of you? Not buying that.

    • Johnny

      Screw you man, Im the best there ever was. the devil ain’t shit

  • Sunny Day

    The last one is my favorite.

    • Zinn


    • Bahmanicious

      But god didn’t write the Bible. Man did.

      • John C

        Yes He did. Your victory (over your Self, that false and fallen man no longer in God’s ‘very image and likeness’ Gen 1:26) is found in your complete agreement with and surrender to the Truth Himself. And the result? Peace, glorious peace like a (gently flowing) river.

        Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays guys (and gals) and all the very best in the New Year…too!

        • kholdom0790

          Thanks so much for including the other half of the human species in your parentheses, JC.

        • Fox

          Giving yourself over to ignorance leads to to bliss. Ignorance is bliss. Thus those truly ignorant are truly at peace. I on the other hand choose knowledge and reason and am far more satisfied than I would be with bliss.

  • elivent

    Trying so, so hard not to crack up at work.


  • Nathan

    Lucifer is Jesus. Jesus is Lucifer. Or at least there’s evidence to suggest it. Guess the Christians missed that one too.

    “…..and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?” ~John 11:26

    the same as……

    “”You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman”
    ~Genesis 3:4

    “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up”
    ~John 3:14

    which refers to…..

    “So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live.”
    ~Numbers 21:9

    There are many others I won’t list for space and because it’s not exactly relevant to the blog. Just wanted to point it out though.

    • MulderFoxx

      I like fan fiction too.

      • Mark

        No i think you should tell us more.

      • Critical thinker

        I laughed my ass off when I read this comment

    • Truthsetter

      i would just like to point out that taking sentences that are similar out of context and throwing them together doesn’t make them true. This is not evidence but rather reading what you want to see read.

      now granted you don’t believe, and i’m sure 99% of those who see these pictures don’t, but saying random quotes from something you think is nonsense anyways doesn’t really support you. except to other shallow minded, bandwagon haters i suppose.

      For the first example the word “die” actually means two different things. it’s like me telling you that by staying out in the sun without sunscreen you won’t burn… while you won’t catch fire you may get a sunburn… same word different meanings. since the serpent is Satan and he was twisting words to trick Eve it is believable (even if you’re atheist) to say he was using some wordplay.

      As for the second example, I know little of these exact quotes, however I can tell that they are severely out of context and therefore not related at all. just because the words “lifted up” are in both does not mean they are related. If you have two people with the last name Smith that live on opposite sides of the world chances are they are not related, since Smith is a common last name and they are not living near each other.

      • Nathan

        You have no idea what you’re saying do you? The point of the first two is that Jesus and (supposedly) Satan said the same thing. This suggests they both had a common purpose. So no, it’s not “out of context” as Christians love to say when something doesn’t fit their dogma.

        As for the second, it was said by Jesus himself, who was relating an OT story. He apparently saw a common theme between himself being lifted up and the serpent that Moses lifted up. So if there’s a problem with what he said, might I suggest you amend you Bible to fit YOUR version? Oh wait, that would be taking it out of context.

        • Truthsetter

          in the first example however they are NOT saying the same thing. Jesus says you will not die as in you will live forever in eternity. Satan says you will not die as in your body will not stop functioning. different.

          how is “MY” version not what the bible says… i did not quote random scripture to counter you. I didn’t take anything out of context. I was simply stating my observations on what you had said. Attacking me and trying to belittle me won’t make you any more correct so that is unnecessary as well.

          If i say the sky is green simply because the grass is that doesnt make me right….which is essentially what you have done here.

          • Tom

            I think he’s having trouble with the admittedly odd constrcution “”You will not surely die,”
            Which means: It isn’t sure that you will die; which isn’t at all the same as saying, (he) will never die.
            As to the bronze snake thing, are all sankes related to Satan? Uh, no. The bronze snake was because the people had been bitten by snakes, not satan-snakes, just snakes.

            • idon’treallycare

              I think Truthsetter and Nathan should get a room.

        • http://fugodeus.com Nox

          Gonna play god’s advocate here for a second (don’t get excited TS, I’m not defending you, I’m defending your one coincidentally right statement in a sea of wrong):

          TS actually is right about part of this. Specifically in part of his response to your first example.

          There are some interesting parallels between Jesus and Lucifer. There are even some passages which could be read as suggesting they are the same character (never actually said explicitly, but not that much of a stretch either). These two examples don’t really show that connection and the use of Genesis 3:4 sort of is out of context in a way that affects its accuracy.

          First your second example. You are obviously right to assert a connection between John 3:14 and Numbers 21:9. It would be pointless for TS to claim they are not related at all (and I see he already has) since Jesus actually mentions Moses by name and refers to Moses lifting up a serpent, which according to Numbers 21 is essentially what Moses did. If you read the two verses it is clear that Jesus is comparing himself to the serpent, and saying he must be lifted up as the serpent was lifted up.

          Still a reference to a serpent is not necessarily a reference to the serpent. A straightforward reading has it as a brass serpent that Moses lifted up so that Israelites who were bitten by serpents could look at it and be healed.

          I find it more interesting to note that this is not a particularly good way to treat snakebites, that the snakes who were biting the Israelites were sent by god, that god commands Moses to violate god’s earlier commandment about graven images, that this passage references as authoritative (or perhaps as scripture) a book which no longer exists and is not in the bible, that right before Jesus says he must be lifted like a serpent he says “no man hath ascended up to heaven” (where the f*ck did Elijah ascend to) or the many interesting contrasts between the story of Moses and the brass serpent and the story of Moses and the golden calf.

          But of course none of that has anything at all to do with our topic here.

          So second your first example. Unless I’m missing some crucial piece of the duck puzzle this one just doesn’t seem right. In the John verse, Jesus is offering eternal life. Whether he was referring to an afterlife or an eternal earthly life (or whether he’d have any ability to make good on this offer) (or whether he ever actually said this) is of course subject to interpretation. But it isn’t the same thing the serpent said to Eve.

          Genesis 3:1-5
          1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
          2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
          3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
          4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
          5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

          The necessary backstory here comes from Genesis 2:17 where god tells Adam “in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die” in relation to this same fruit (side note: god was lying. The serpent was telling the truth. They eat the fruit and then live for several years).

          Then the serpent says to the woman “hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”

          She replies to the serpent “We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”

          To which the serpent responds “Ye shall not surely die. For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.”

          “This fruit won’t kill you” is not the same statement as “believe in me and never die”. There could very well be some common purpose, but these words in themselves don’t suggest it.

          Again there are many interesting things to be seen in Genesis 3. For example god later uses disturbingly similar words to the serpent’s prediction to describe the effects of Adam and Eve eating the fruit (“And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil”). But unless Jesus is one of the “us” referred to in Genesis 3:22, he does not appear in this story.

          • Carl Winslow

            Before Adam and Eve ate the apple from the tree of knowledge they were eligible to eat from the tree of life. By eating the apple of knowledge, they sacrificed their immortality

          • anon


            • Sunny Day

              Then why are you here?

      • Artor

        You’re the guy who totally misses the point of jokes, then goes on long, pedantic rants about why nobody’s jokes are funny, right?

      • andrea

        Taking things out of context, oh like so many believers do. How came “whats good for the goose, is good for the gander’ doesn’t apply?

      • Fox

        Well Christians love to just take bits and pieces that they like and ignore the rest any way. Leviticus and a host of others just as an example. Figure if they feel free to do that then they can’t judge when others use the same method against them.

    • Brian K

      Look up the Franco-Austrian musical project “Elend”. They released a three part neoclassical/black metal/opera piece based on Paradise Lost which posits this very claim.

      Fascinating…and very dark…series of albums. Especially the last disc, The Umbersun

    • Tom Vincent

      Two imaginary literary characters that ‘say’ similar things aren’t necessarily the same two imaginary literary characters.

      In the real world, a whole group of people recite the oath of citizenship when they become US citizens. Are you suggesting all those people in the room are actually the same individual?

    • Channing

      Just a quick fyi. The serpent is never named as Satan in the bible, people have just kind of assumed it. The serpent simply represents temptation. So listing a bunch of out of context bible quotes referencing the serpent doesn’t really support your theory that Satan and Jesus are the same entity.

      • Mike

        You indicate you’re not a Christian, and yet you willingly assume that the Bible can legitimately offer direct quotes when the New Testament was written at least a century after Jesus’ death; that’s a little ridiculous.

        • Sunny Day

          interesting you both seem to have the same gravitar.

      • Nick

        They aren’t out of context. they aren’t necessarily right. Grey areas people, please, they are not hard to see.

        I don’t think it’s that far-fetched to think Jesus was comparing himself to the devil. I sure do it all the time. It’s called my conscience.

    • Jonathan

      Haha someone doesn’t know their religion. In you reference of John 3:14, you forgot to mention that the snake Moses lifted up was killed, up on a staff, and when it was raised cured all who were BIT BY SNAKES during the attack by Lucifer.

      2# The only way you tied Jesus and Lucifer together was by how they both said something that looked alike. If i said “apples are red” and then you said “Apples could be red”, then according to your logic, we are the same. See the fallacy?

      3# Lucifer was thrown out of have for being jealous of how GOD THE FATHER love humanity. JESUS was the SON OF GOD who came down from heaven to cleans man of sin. Even though the Trilogy are believed to be one in the same, you specifically are speaking of JESUS, NOT GOD THE FATHER.

      • I hate religion

        Yet they are the same, but they’re not…
        It’s all full of contradictory BS.
        Now lets follow up with 666 more comments about he said, she said from the HOLY book. You know, the one written by people, from a being who IS everything, CREATED everything, is EVERYWHERE, AND nowhere, and yet not one of his followers can agree on what the fuck his book means.
        “Well no this is what I think it means…”
        “NO, your wrong it means THIS!”
        Shut the hell up already.

        A baby dies from an abusive parent who scalds them with hot water and leaves them in a dumpster – “God works in mysterious way” “Everything happens for a reason” “God has some kind of great plan”
        Joe finds a job “Praise god!”

        Fuck his great master plan, and everyone who sits around waiting for the return and the end of the world. You guys are batshit, and are killing the world. More people have died in the name of a religion than in EVERY major war COMBINED. Some of you even spread disease, and over populate in the belief that contraception is wrong. All of this crap and Santa Clause is impossible. Yet, a man who listens to billions of people murmur to him all at once, now THAT I can believe O_o

        See you in hell you fairy farting pixi dust snuffing judgmental Hypocrites, and can I get a “He’s the devil” comment for using a damn number while I’m at it.
        Have a nice day, assholes.

        • grrrlgeek

          You’re the devil, and I want to have your babies. Well, not really, because I believe in negative population growth, but you get the idea.

          • UrsaMinor

            This space for rent. And I would like to heartily thank teh srvr munkees for that.

        • charley

          so much anger… ain’t good for the soul.

          • kholdom0790

            I would have thought someone venting their frustrations like this would actually help “the soul”, whatever you mean by that. Or should people just put up and shut up if they ever want to express their understandable feelings?

            Sure, let’s pipe down and allow Christian privilege to continue unchallenged. It’s unacceptable to feel angry about people who deny reality and actively work against a peaceful society. Shame on all of us.

    • Atheistthinksyourewrong

      Dude, the serpent isn’t Satan. No textual evidence in the bible, just heavy Christian conjecture outside of the book. If you’re gonna get deconstructive, you gotta follow the rules of textual analysis.

  • http://fugodeus.com Nox

    My favorite “Good Guy Lucifer” meme:

    “The Devil has been attacked by the men of God relentlessly and without reservation. Never has there been an opportunity, short of fiction, for the Dark Prince to speak in the same manner as the spokesmen of the Lord of the Righteous. The pulpit-pounders of the past have been free to define “good” and “evil” as they see fit, and have gladly smashed into oblivion any who disagree with their lies – both verbally and at times physically. Their talk of “charity”, when applied to His Infernal Majesty, becomes an empty sham – and most unfairly too, considering the obvious fact that without their Satanic foe their very religion would collapse. How sad, that the allegorical personage most responsible for the success of spiritual religions is shown the least amount of charity and the most consistent abuse – and by those who most unctuously preach the rules of fair play! For all the centuries of shouting-down the Devil has received, he has never shouted back at his detractors. He has remained the gentleman at all times. While those he supports rant and rave, he has shown himself to be a model of deportment.”

    Maybe too long for a meme. I suppose that also rules out Genesis 3, Paradise Lost, Letters From the Earth, and Al Pacino’s speech at the end of The Devil’s Advocate.

    • Truthsetter

      Satan has cried out in return though…. who do you think smiles every time you post something like this? lol

      though i suppose it’s useless to point that out huh?

      • UrsaMinor

        Totally. Because it is a non-falsifiable hypothesis, it is not worth worrying about its actual truth value.

        Much like you do not spend time lying awake at night worrying about the invisible, inaudible, intangible vampire unicorn that is sitting on your shoulder slowly sucking your life force out through your carotid artery. Most people are age and die within seven decades because of this, and most never know why it’s happening.

        This hypothesis is also unfalsifiable. I don’t imagine that you’ll give it much thought, but that is a rather arbitrary decision because it COULD be true and you can’t prove otherwise.

      • http://fugodeus.com Nox

        I gotta stop using parables to make logical points. Too much opportunity for people to misunderstand. Even when (as in this case) the point of the parable is something that should be fairly obvious.

        The quote I mentioned is from The Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey (so saying it made Satan smile is probably not the insult to the author you think it is). I really like how LaVey stated it. That’s why I used his words instead of my own (also the fact that it comes from the holy book of satanists makes it a preexisting good guy Lucifer meme). But apparently those words are not clear enough for you TS, so let’s see if I can make this point a bit less poetically (although you already did exactly that with “Satan is shoving “the truth” down everyone’s throat like…. an atheist?”).

        I’m not gonna get into how Satan is the real protagonist of the bible, or how the idea of Satan is something I personally find inspirational (I’m referring to the proud angel who gave up his position in heaven rather than bow to a tyrant, not the red guy with horns that you blame for all your problems), or how the bible claims Satan is the one who gave humans the gift of self awareness, since that’s not what this is about. I’m just going to explain what was clearly meant by what I posted earlier.

        There Is No Devil.

        You sort of have to understand that part before the rest of this can make any sense.

        Despite there being no real evidence of any god or devil existing, many many people throughout history believed firmly in the existence of both.

        In a world where everyone believed in god and the devil, many people took it upon themselves to speak for god. Incredibly often they would use accusations of affiliation with the devil as a pretext to torture and murder those who disagreed with the god they spoke for.

        This combined with some other factors, created a society where basically everyone believed in god and the devil, many people spoke for god, and no one ever spoke openly on behalf of the devil.

        This gave everyone a tremendously unhealthy opportunity to blame all their problems on one fictional character who would never ever speak up to defend himself. The loudest claimants of perfect morality just could not resist bullying this perfect victim. And into the world was born the now ubiquitous phenomenon of ‘blaming the devil’.

        Cheated on your wife? Devil must have made you do it. Those guys over there are dicks? They must be in league with the Devil. Don’t like science? It’s the work of the Devil. Rock and roll? Devil. Dinosaur bones? Devil. Jews? Devil. Gays? Devil.

        But the scapegoat upon which christians are taught to blame their problems, is in fact the main thing that keeps christianity in business. Satan is every bit as important to the salvation scam as Jesus, and he gets none of the credit. Without the threats of hellfire to keep people in line, without the boogieman enabling god and his people to never take responsibility for themselves and what they have wrought in the world through their faith, christianity simply could not have survived for two thousand years.

        This is why it is so unfair that you guys have talked so much sh*t about your fictional embodiment of things you don’t like.

        I’m not worried about the feelings of a fictional character. But the church really should show some appreciation to the fictional character who has been their bread and butter for so long.

        It’s about time somebody said something nice about The Devil.

        • Zombie In Denial

          You sir, are a genius. I love the idea of a character who acts as a scapegoat of hatred, yet never recieves any appreciation for it whatsoever! Sadly, I think that the common quality of close-mindedness will keep them from having such a perspective. Plus, like you said, the religion wouldn’t be able to function with sympathy towards Satan. I’m glad to see that someone has some intelligence here! ^_^

  • http://www.seotechniques.eu Dave

    Scumbag god: I gave you free will. Use it exactly as I command you to.

    • Nzo

      Ohhh, can we haz this?

  • Reginald Selkirk

    I guess it’s my turn to be the wet blanket: Lucifer is as fictional as God.

    • Aric Z.

      Most people here realize that, fictional characters can still be interesting, especially the anti-hero.

  • ocp

    The Devil’s greatest trick wasnt convincing the world that he didnt exist but that god did.

    • Julian

      Dostoevski’s devil isn’t it?

  • Chris

    Great. Now I have to worship Satan.

    • Reginald Selkirk

      No, that’s a typo. You should worship Santa.
      Come to think of it, they both wear red and are credited with supernatural feats. Have they ever been seen in the same room?

      • Bob

        No, Santa lives forever, has a bag that is bigger inside than out, and has a vehicle that can take him to every home on Earth in one night. He is clearly a Timelord.

        • Matt

          Just so you know, I stole this, as I think it a comment of the utmost quality. Or, in the modern vernacular “Doctor Who 5evr, its longr thn 4eva”

        • CoffeeJedi

          That would account for all the slightly different depictions of him over the years. He just regenerates.

        • Tom Vincent

          In Harry Potter’s world, they have tents that are much bigger on the inside than on the outside, so I would suggest Santa is simply a Hogwart’s grad, not a Timelord.

      • trj

        Here’s a diagram to clear up your confusion.

      • Ian

        Satan – Often depicted as being the color red, tempts people away from Christ by offering them various gifts, and is often considered to be covered in soot.

        Santa – Often depicted as wearing the color red, gives people gifts on “Christ’s” Birthday (won’t even get into all the other deities that have a penchant for being born on December 25th/around the solstice etc.), and is often considered to be covered in ash and soot.

        Santa is an anagram of Satan…just sayin’.

    • ocp

      no but you should at least pray for Satan. The one being that needs prayers more then anyone else.

      • clove

        how so?

  • Sonofman

    one of my favorite questions to ask a devout christian is: If Satan asked for forgiveness and asked Jesus into his heart, wouldn’t God have to let him back in?

    • Bud

      I think that was covered in “Dogma”, a View Askew production (Jay and Silent Bob).

    • Truthsetter

      the point is not if he did,… the point is he wouldn’t. Satan is the embodiment of sin. He also wishes to usurp God’s kingdom. He could never fully except Jesus into his heart simply because of his very nature and therefore would not be allowed back. but to answer your question. the answer is still no because God’s word is THE law and he banished Satan forever, therefore, the law is not to be broken so Satan is forever banished. However, this question is moot point since Satan would never seek forgiveness anyways.

      kudos for the question though. I hadn’t heard that one yet.

      • Truthsetter

        also, I would like to pose a question to hard-core atheists

        “what’s the difference in believing in one ‘book’ that was ‘written by many men over centuries’ and believing in what a few men have decided through ‘experiments’ to define something they STILL cannot fully define?”

        how is the belief of not believing any different from believing…. you are still putting faith in something. Evidence is what you see it as. i can choose to say all scientist make stuff up simply to seem more credible, can i not?… food for thought

        • TrickQuestion

          yeah…you don’t exactly get us do you?
          We don’t have a “belief in not believing”
          That’s a nonsense statement.
          The difference between what we do and what you do is this. Choosing to be completely ignorant and “fingers in ears la la la la i’m not listening” to things that can be proven and shown is way different than saying “Magic!”
          Which is what you do.
          Food for rational thought.

        • Stony

          As a nominal Christian myself, I have to say: you really don’t have a grasp on reality, do you? I really try not to make attacking comments, but to come here and try to give us “food for thought” when clearly you haven’t even thought through your own comment is disingenuous at best. Those “few men” who still can’t fully define stuff: That’s called the scientific process. It means that we’re not foolish enough or childish enough to believe in absolutes. Our minds grow and change as we learn new data.

          “Man will never fly.” I get in an airplane every other week. “The atom is the smallest particle known to man.” Someone better tell that to the nuclear industry, then. In the 40s, it was UNDERSTOOD that you never opened or touched the heart during surgery…today open heart surgeries are a daily event. You can disregard scientific findings all you want, but I suggest you throw away any and all prescription drugs and turn off your electricity. At least, for our sanity, unplug your computer.

        • CoffeeJedi

          I think you have your definitions of “few” and “many” mixed up.

          And yes, I’ll take the word of thousands of dedicated men and women building on each others’ successes and correcting each other’s mistakes over the ramblings of a handful of bronze-age nomadic goat-herders any day.

          • Brian K

            This is an Atheist’s meme that bothers me a bit. It’s Atheist conventional wisdom that needs to be correct, to be honest.

            My understanding is that most of the Torah was not really compiled by “Goat Herders”. Much of the Torah was compiled during the Babylonian exile by men who would be considered very learned by the standards of the day. Now, this compilation involved quite a bit of editing of the oral traditions, as well as myth-spinning to promote community cohesion during the diaspora, but the Torah is a little more sophisticated than a compilation of “goat herders’” tales. That does not mean the Torah represents the “Word of “God”” in any way, of course…but let’s not be smug and dismissive here, either.

            I’m not concern trolling. It’s just that the “goat herders” meme is not very accurate.

            • Darwin

              We have a thread on the forum about this very topic.

            • UrsaMinor

              I’d have to agree with the goat-herder part. The Hebrew canon was not put together by illiterate nomads. But it is definitely the product of a Bronze Age society (interestingly, one which acknowledged the existence of several deities that have mostly been expunged from history).

            • trj

              Definitely have to agree with that. Every time I hear an atheist claim the (Hebrew) Bible was written by primitive bronze age goat herders I cringe inside.

              The Old Testament is from the Bronze Age, no doubt about that. And it obviously incorporates a lot of contemporary myths and folklore, not to mention how its views on morality is shaped by that time.

              But then again, we can also find a certain level of theological sophistication in the OT. And the people who compiled and edited the Bible were not illiterate goat herders but professional scribes, sometimes commisioned by heads of states.

            • Nzo

              I justify using the meme by keeping in mind that even the most knowledgeable of the time had very little useful knowledge beyond the ability to read and write.

              Calling them ‘goat-herders’ isn’t really a far cry from what they really were, and saying something like “it was written by educated people in the bronze age” doesn’t really roll off the tongue.

            • http://fugodeus.com Nox

              Biblical scholarship shows the old testament to have been written mostly by priests and scribes (and mostly after the diaspora).

              The plagiarism from other great works of the era shows that those priests were in fact particularly learned men for their time.

              The many retarded statements those learned men make shows their mentality, their lack of data, and the type of audience they were writing for.

              Just the fact that it is some words on a f*cking page should show us they were basically literate.

              So the only reason I could see for saying the old testament was written by “bronze age goat herders” is that it purports to relate events during the bronze age and that it repeatedly refers to its primary narrative characters herding goats.

            • UrsaMinor

              Perhaps it is not inaccurate to say that it was written for bronze age goat herders, or at the very least about them. But not by them.

            • trj

              I don’t know what the distribution was between rural and and urban people back then, but it’s safe to say that the various scriptures were aimed at many other people than goat herders. So yes, I’d say it’s inaccurate to claim they were written for goat herders.

          • Blood and Fire

            We should also dismiss the writings of Plato and Aristotle as the musings of goatherders.

            • Custador

              Sorry, is there a point you’re trying to make or are you being passive-agressively disingenuous? No offence, but I honestly can’t tell, so I figured I’d just ask.

        • Custador

          Arguing against your straw-man version of science (which, FYI, is totally divorced from reality) does not prove that there’s anything wrong with the scientific method. Lurk more. What you’re posting at the moment is bullshit.

        • Erik

          Yes, how IS believing different from not believing?

          Can’t answer that one! haha stupid athiests


        • Revyloution

          Truthsetter, if your’e still around, I have a question. You mentioned that Satan is banished forever, and cannot ever be granted grace. Since the only place we can learn about Satan is the bible, which verses are you interpreting for this idea?

          I’m not a bible scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but I’ve never read anything in the Bible that suggested that Satan wouldnt/couldnt ever ask for forgiveness.

        • Tom Vincent

          The bible isn’t ‘one book’, but a collection of stories written over several centuries, hobbled together and selected by various groups.

          If anything, it’s an anthology.

        • McKenzie

          I once talked about something along these lines with another atheist friend of mine. He and came up with the saying “Atheism (not-believing) is a religion (belief) the same way that not-painting is a hobby.”

          In regards to believing in science vs. the bible… I don’t hold to science because people tell me it’s true. I can reproduce the results. I took chemistry, and health, and I love to cook which is a form of chemistry. I don’t take everything said by scientists as fact. I also don’t discredit everything a religious spokesman says. While I am an atheist, I do believe some religions, like Buddhism, have wonderful messages. People often say that athiests don’t have faith, because we don’t believe in gods or prophets. I most certainly do. I have faith that mankind will change for the better, and the fear that it won’t. And I don’t know if every atheist feels this way, but I frequently wonder what happens if it turns out I am wrong. Or everyone is. I like to think that even though I don’t believe in him, God isn’t such an enormous asshole that he’d see me and say “well, she was a nice girl, did a lot of good, but she didn’t believe in me, so I’ll go ahead and send her to burn and be tortured in hell.” Really? That’s a pretty cruel God you’ve got there if he lets the druggies and murderers who believe in him into heaven and the good people who don’t are sent to hell.

          • Jabster

            “I don’t hold to science because people tell me it’s true. I can reproduce the results.”

            The reality is that we don’t this in the vast majority of cases – I don’t know about you but the last time I did an experiment was during my A levels .

            Now of course that’s fine if we can place some trust in the scientific method/community and personally I do believe you can do that.

      • UrsaMinor

        You are arguing that Satan does not have free will if he cannot have a change of heart and accept God. And if this is so, he cannot have decided to rebel against God to begin with. Moral culpability cannot be assigned to those who are not free to choose.

        If Satan does have free will, then the restriction against him being able to receive forgiveness is simply an arbitrary prohibition imposed by theologians because Christianity needs its bogeyman. It does not spring from anything resembling ethics or logic.

        • Truthsetter

          okay so let me see if i can address everyone here.

          1. science; yes i understand what science is. i also believe that while there is MUCH science has understood and has figured out. there is still much that can not be explained through science. ie, big bang theory… its called a theory for a reason. and how can you tell me that SCIENCE finds a solution that God didn’t put there? what if, heaven forbid, your “science” is understanding the way God made things to work? i have never said science doesnt work, nor did i say it was stupid or false.

          2. Ignorance/food for thought comments:
          Well this seems kind of pointless now, because nobody that replied bothered actually thinking about anything. Except maybe how to try and tear me down or belittle me. Good job. that ignores the argument all together.

          3. @Stony in particular.
          Not to call you out. but i love scientific advancements and technology actually. What i was trying to get at more was that science can’t prove that God didn’t make it. You can’t prove God doesn’t exist. Sure maybe if you don’t believe in the Bible you can say there is no proof that He does exist… but there is no proof to the contrary. That I have heard of. If there is let me know please.

          4. well i dont need to cover the goat herders comment, thank you brian.

          5. as i think i stated earlier. lots of men writing one book. lots of men and women writing other books…. same difference. so belief is belief. you are believing what science has told you. now i do not claim science is false. much of it is true, but i repeat… is it possible for it to be because God made it to work that way?

          6 Lastly, @Ursa
          Not picking on you here. However, I did not say Satan has no free will. How many rich men do you know would give up every penny they have for forgiveness from their dad they tried to kill and usurp? The fact is that Satan WON’T ask forgiveness because he feels he is right and that he has succeeded. as for ethics.. where do you think morals come from? who first came up with them? oh yea… those same Bronze Age guys that wrote the Bible…. TRUE Christianity is all about the battle of good and evil. If there is no God with ONE set of morals for all to follow and rather it is left for each man to decide how can you say murder is wrong? maybe it’s wrong to you, but since you don’t believe in ONE set of morals, obviously the murderer can say it’s fine by his morals. to say that Christianity is not based on ethics is just silly, and MAYBE it’s not based on your logic… but then Christianity isn’t about the average man is it? It runs on God’s logic.. not ours.

          • UrsaMinor

            Just to clarify, then, you’re saying that Satan does have free will, and that God will forgive him and let him back into heaven if he truly repents?

            • Truthsetter

              What im saying is your argument is moot point because Satan simply will not ask for forgiveness and truly mean it and want it. And no God wont let him back because he was banished FOREVER. Thats the law. Can’t be changed unless God banished himself from heaven just as he killed himself (Jesus) for man.

            • Sunny Day

              Not only are you saying that Satan doesn’t have free will, you’re also saying God is not omnipotent. Because there are somethings god can’t do.

              Your god seems small and weak, are you sure you are worshiping the right one?

            • UrsaMinor

              Well, at least we have established that Truthsetter believes in a god that will not under any circumstances grant forgiveness to a sincerely repentant sentient being, just to save face.

          • MalReyn

            That’s the argument you’re going with? “You can’t prove that God doesn’t exist?” There’s problems with other things you’re saying, but I take particular exception to that one.

            I’ll admit right now: I believe in God. But, to me, that’s a personal thing that I can’t prove. I’m not going to go into exactly what I believe right now, because that’s not my point here and doesn’t really factor into the current debate. I’m just telling you that I do and why this is a dumb point to make.

            You believe in God. Can you prove it? No. Can you point to weird, cool stuff that happens and say it was God? If you want, but that doesn’t mean that it was. It’s not proof, but you may interpret it to be reinforcement of your belief. And I don’t mean in the broad sense of “but ultimately everything is done by God or as a result of God.” All someone has to do is counter that it wasn’t God. Coincidence, chance, unknown science, whatever the case may be. And don’t say that God made those coincidences, chances and unknown science happen, because that’s the same thing as saying “You can’t prove he didn’t!” All someone else has to say is “You can’t prove he did.” It is, however, fairly likely that someone will have a, however implausible it may seem to you, rational explanation for it at some point.

            It’s lame and cancels itself out. It’s nice to comfort yourself with, but it’s not an argument, a point in an argument or even something worth mentioning. It’s circular and doesn’t win over anyone. I could say that I believe a long time ago in a galaxy far far away midget bears used sticks to fight off the ruling galactic empire and helped to deactivate the invisible shield protecting the empire’s orbiting battlestation. Did I get that from a movie? Yeah. That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. You don’t think it did? Prove it. You can’t. I win.

            • UrsaMinor

              Thank you for making those points, MalReyn.

              It should hardly be necessary to point out to Truthsetter (but I’m going to do it anyway) that the argument “You can’t prove my god isn’t real!” applies equally well to Rama, Vishnu, Amaterasu, Thor, Coyote, Pan, Mithras, Apollo, Thoth, Marduk, Tiamat, et cetera ad nauseum. If you accept your own claim as a valid argument, you must acknowledge that the argument works for all the other gods, too.

            • Emily

              I’ve been inclined to comment on a lot of different things so far but your piece made me feel even more so.

              For starters, you took every single thought and argument out of my mind and wrote it all out. I believe in a God, not necessarily “Christian” God or what have you, I believe there is some greater power, I just can’t exactly say what it is and I’m not about to force the idea on anyone else.

              Secondly, I’m completely loving the fact that you referenced Star Wars in a religious debate. Major kudos. You deserve a hug or cuddle from someone important.

          • Mogg

            Hey Truthsetter, I thought I’d have a go at answering your points:

            1. Theory does not mean ‘in theory,’ ie) “I’m guessing here”. In science, it means an explanation of a process which can be studied and supported or disproved by observation and experimentation. Sure, there is such a thing as the big bang theory, but there is also such a thing as gravitational theory, and we don’t all go flying off into space due to the (correct) use of the term theory. Generally speaking, in science, the longer a theory has been around and the more people have studied it, the better supported it is. It still remains a theory in the sense of an explanation of a process.

            2. Food for thought/ignorance. The problem which you do not realise is that your arguments, comments and propositions have been presented here approximately seven million times before, and refuted as often. Food for thought is not tasty if it’s last week’s mouldy leftovers which weren’t good enough the first time around. The advice to lurk was a good one, if you do a bit of reading on the site you’ll see some of what has been discussed before and not annoy regulars by rehashing the same old arguments.

            3. Nobody needs to prove that God doesn’t exist. All that most atheists and agnostics require is sufficient proof that he does in order to believe. There are quite a few people here who are ex-believers, including ex-ministers and at least one theologian, who have found that the proof for God as presented in the Bible is insufficient and/or inconsistent, and therefore not supported. If God were to actually do some of the things promised and if the world worked as described in the Bible, I would have reason to believe, but given that a) he never did and b) I found it doesn’t in around 25 years of being a believer, I feel no need to continue. It’s rather like stopping believing in Santa when mounting evidence leads to another conclusion.

            4. Already covered, and yes, it’s a meme that annoys me as well.

            5. There is absolutely a fundamental difference between lots of men writing a book of their ideas about how the world works and lots of men and women writing about their experiments to prove their idea of how the world works in such a way that others can repeat and verify results and/or use as a basis for further experimentation. In the first, they are just ideas with no evidence to support them. In the second, if the ideas can’t be verified with experimental evidence they are modified or discarded.

            6. I’m going to leave the Satan asking forgiveness one alone, I don’t think there’s any biblical evidence to support your statement, even if Satan were real.

            Morals were not written down by the people who wrote the Bible – or at least they weren’t original. To take one example, most cultures have a version of the Golden Rule (Matthew 7:12, Luke 6:31), and it was found in written form in many ancient cultures centuries before the New Testament was written.

            There is no good reason that I know of to believe that morals (not to mention the concepts of love, beauty, goodness, etc.) are external to our physical brains and social/cultural surroundings, and at least some reason to believe that they are. We can say that murder is wrong because humans are a social species and killing a member of your own group weakens it and its vital social links in all societies, and ultimately makes us less likely to survive. It is therefore a trait that has been selected against over time in all groups and societies (killing those of a different group is still pretty common and acceptable, though, hence wars and racism). This kind of morality operates in all kinds of animals, not just humans. Christianity has its ethics, but they are not ultimate ethics and in many cases not good ethics as we see them today – slavery, the subservient position of women, genocide… the list goes on.

            Christianity may be about the struggle between good and evil, but so is Norse mythology. Why is Christianity right and Norse mythology wrong?

          • http://fugodeus.com Nox

            1) I’m not sure you do know what science is. Science is a set of tools for gathering and analyzing information. Anyone who is using actual science must first understand their senses can deceive them. The scientific method was formulated to deal with exactly this. See Mogg and Ursa’s explanations of what theory means.

            2) Believing is the same thing as believing. Not believing is the same thing as not believing. Believing is not the same thing as not believing. Calling skepticism an act of faith is nonsensical. As a “hardcore atheist” (actually about 49% deist but I am vehemently anti-god, and what you were referring to as “hardcore atheists” is another thing that doesn’t exist) my answer to your question is that my “faith” in science goes only as far as I can verify the data myself, and that failing to know everything is still a far better outcome than choosing to know nothing.

            3) Science isn’t trying to prove god doesn’t exist. Science is finding better explanations for the things god was made up to explain. And there is proof that the god in the bible doesn’t exist. The proof is the bible.

            4) How about priests and scribes in the Second Temple Period with a decidedly Bronze Age perspective.

            5) You’re repeating earlier points and assigning new numbers to them. You don’t need to do that.

            6a) I’m not gonna accuse you of making up the story about Satan rebelling and getting kicked out of heaven. The story’s been around for quite some time. But you do know it’s not mentioned anywhere in the bible right?

            6b) I’m hesitant to speculate about the unstated motives of fictional characters. But if the christian god did exist, and I used to work for him, and I knew from personal observation, not from a book, not from observing the ridiculousness and sadism of christian doctrine, but from being his right hand man for countless centuries that he is the tyrant his religion claims him to be, and then I made it out of his domain and got my own domain with freedom of conscience and a sweet fireplace, and he offered to let me come back and be his errand boy if I was willing to give up my own will and submit to his authority…

            …I’d probably refuse to repent too.

            6c) We just went over why the bible is a bad source for morality. It was like three days ago. So rather than cram another thread with quotes from Deuteronomy of your god commanding genocide and endorsing rape and slavery I’ll just direct you to this thread where I already covered that.

            6d) The first people to think of the concept of ethics were the guys who wrote the bible? Unless you want to go back to bronze age goat herders, the Vedas and the Code of Hammurabi are a bit older than the bible. Still we need look no further than the bible itself to falsify your statement. In Exodus 2 Moses kills an Egyptian, then out of fear of legal repercussions for the crime of murder he flees Egypt. If this story were true it would certainly suggest that someone thought of “thou shalt not kill” before Moses went up Mount Sinai.

          • mine79

            Morals and the like existed long before Christianity and the Torah.
            The Egyptians had their own as did the Romans, Chinese, Aboriginals, Myans, Aztecs, Native American tribes and countless others that pre-date Christianity.
            This was all a building process that combines centuries of beliefs. It amazes me that you believe or don’t really want to see that the religion that you spout as truth is not original and in fact is just a retelling of stories that existed long before your “truth”. Do a little research into the peoples that inhabited this world before your religion existed and the stories that they told (which parallel your Bible) and then make a reasonable decision as to whether Christianity is any different than the beliefs that people have held throughout time.

          • Zombie In Denial


            Ah, for your idea that says that there is no proof against gods existence, bam. That’s a very interesting article to read, imho. I personally don’t believe in something becuase it might exist, some kind of proof needs to be presented to justify my belief in something. A lack of disproof is not reason to believe in something.

      • T

        As always, I marvel at the ability of the christian to know the heart/mind/motives of another. It’s a fascinating gift, but I’m glad I dropped it at the door when I walked out of that life. Now I figure people know better than I do what’s going on inside of their own minds. I can’t help but think it would be the same for poor satan, if he were real.

        Besides, as some others have pointed out, it’d be awfully unfair of god not to give satan the ability to say no. I always thought the same about Judas. He seemed to be doomed from the beginning.

        • Truthsetter

          i dont think that is a christian specific “talent”. actually a lot of atheists seem to have the same talent no?

          what was Satan gonna do if he didn’t get banished from heaven? fight back? lol basically be obliterated for eternity. it’s not that God didn’t give Satan the ability to say no, it would have been foolish for him to say no.

          If the law says you can’t do something and you simply say “no, im gonna do it anyway” dont you get punished? why should this be different?

          • T

            Sorry, I didn’t express my thought very well. According to you, satan wouldn’t say “yes” to god. I’m saying, you have no idea what a person (or an imaginary evil being) would or would not say in any given situation. You can speculate, sure, but you can’t say for certain. If you could, well, you would be god. Kudos to you.

            “the point is not if he did,… the point is he wouldn’t. Satan is the embodiment of sin. He also wishes to usurp God’s kingdom. He could never fully except Jesus into his heart simply because of his very nature and therefore would not be allowed back. but to answer your question. the answer is still no because God’s word is THE law and he banished Satan forever, therefore, the law is not to be broken so Satan is forever banished. However, this question is moot point since Satan would never seek forgiveness anyways.”

            Either way, satan is just fucked, and it seems awfully unfair.

            • Truthsetter

              I can say that I know how Satan would respond simply because his personality has been revealed in the Bible. Which I take as truth. So… let me see if I can kinda make a bridge from what you are saying to what I am…

              Satan = “imaginary” dude of evil from the Bible, who is “unfairly” punished for capital crimes against the “imaginary” dude of good that created all of everything.

              That Punishment = Banished from heaven never to return. (Capital Crimes generally ask for DEATH as a punishment.)

              Bible = Book about EVERYTHING mentioned above and more.

              Therefore, Bible should explain about Satan and this whole situation yes?

              Yes, Satan is screwed. Personally, I think banishment vs. utter destruction is rather lenient. And since when was anything about life fair?

            • http://fugodeus.com Nox

              Do you take Genesis 3 as truth?

            • Elemenope

              And since when was anything about life fair?

              What is the better explanation for this, do you think? That the universe is rather random and disorganized because it is undirected, or that there is a God directing everything and he is a fickle unprincipled ass?

            • trj

              And since when was anything about life fair?

              Not exactly the best defense I’ve heard of God being perfect and just.

            • UrsaMinor

              Personally, I think banishment vs. utter destruction is rather lenient.

              Interesting perspective. You think that spending an eternity alive and conscious and separated from God knowing that you screwed up and will never under any circumstances be forgiven is a more lenient punishment than oblivion? This is arguing that condemning a sentient being to eternal, conscious suffering is more merciful than causing him to cease to exist.

              Wow. Just wow.

              But anyway, you clearly take it as an axiom that the Bible is true. Why?

    • Iviewcomments

      Jesus’ blood is the payment for the sins of mankind. Satan/Lucifer/whateveryouwannacallhim is an angleic being, not a human. His Sins are not covered on the cross.

      But what if he did? Even though it will not happen, if Satan did accept Jesus as his King and ruler, he would then be accepting God’s system of justice, which would condemn Satan. Therefore, Satan would willingly place himself into eternal pit of fire.

      Moral of the story, Angels have different rules, punishments, etc. By the way, angels are not dead humans. I don’t understand why people think that their dead relatives are ‘watching over them’ instead of focusing at Jesus, but thats not the point I want to make.

      • Sunny Day

        I thought god was omnipotent. Why does he need angels then?
        I thought god was omniscient how could an angel choose to rebel against him.
        I thought god was omnibenevolent why create a creature who you know is going to rebel against you and fail time and time again?

  • simon soulblade

    in my occult training and experiances, have found that luicifer is still a
    arch-angel his job is that of administrator of hell. where souls are sent to cancel karma they have gathered in thier life in stead of pulling it accross into their next life. is sad the number of minds that once set in a negative mind set never leave it. and truethsayer remember the bible has been tranlated many times from the message gave buy the angels, into aremayic, into hebrew, into english, into the message we percieve. the first and last step cause enough problems, let alone the other translations. there is only one god but may perceptions of him.

    • simon soulblade

      pardon the spelling mistakes the devil made me do it lol.

    • CoffeeJedi

      Yeah, that’s all well and good, and fun way to think about it- that is if any of these fictional characters like God and Satan were, you know, real.

      • Brian K

        The Sandman Slim novels posit this theory of Lucifer as well.

    • Truthsetter

      fair enough. multiple perceptions i would agree to that. however, like you said there IS one God. and by going back and finding the true, or as close as possible to true meaning, of a word you can slowly close the gap between those perceptions. same as if a russian man discovers a scientific phenomenon and then someone has to translate it into various languages. eventually you can get his EXACT meaning, but there will always be language barriers. for anything, not just religion.

      • Sunny Day

        Except for the part where we can duplicate the unintelligible Russian’s experiments and get the same results to confirm the new scientific phenomenon. With silly god bot theists everyone means something different when they have a religious experience.

      • lulzithon

        So why don’t you believe in Zeus? Alah? Amaterasu Oomikami? Shiva?

        Atheism has been defined as a convenient strawman by the religious authorities, historically, as a viewpoint which makes a positivist statement “there is no god.”

        When you say you don’t believe in Zeus (presuming you aren’t a polytheist), are you making this claim positively? Or do you just not find enough compelling evidence that Zeus exists, so the question doesn’t really concern you?

        Most self-described atheists don’t positively assert that god doesn’t exist, just that this yaweh character is about as likely as gnomes, aether, unicorns, and teapots orbiting distant stars. It’s possible, but so improbable that until there is positive evidence proffered in support of the claim of the phenomenon of god’s existence, it’s a waste of cerebral cycles.

        You are making a positive claim. With extraordinary claims come extraordinary requirements of evidence. If you have such evidence, please let me know! What a dissertation that would be!

        • John C

          You can know in the very Way in which the Truth (Himself) says you can, friend. Indeed you can.

  • Matt P

    Does anyone remember the CW series “Reaper” starring Ray Wise as Lucifer? I always thought his portrayal was sublime, if I can use such a word to describe the prince of infernal darkness.

  • parge

    “There’s a new meme going around dubbed Good Guy Lucifer, and it’s pretty damn funny.”


    • Darwin

      Wow, the high level debating on display here has converted me. Praise the Lord! I shall leave this den of sin!! I shall use a shit-load of exclamation marks because that’s how us fundies roll!!!!

      • parge

        Que? Debate? I think I’ve been Poed. Does anybody have a napkin?

        • Darwin

          Oh, my bad. I thought that the FTFY stood for something entirely different. To be fair the change you made is minor. Sorry. Got to start paying more attention. :P

          • parge

            No worries. I thought changing “darn” to “damn” fitting given the subject matter. Jokes are my favourite! I love them more than Jesus!

  • Durf

    Ann Rice did quite a nice version in “Memnoch The Devil”.

    • Rhys Chew

      Yh, one of my fave books

  • Stony

    Donald Westlake’s book “Humans” is also a fun read.

  • Hugo Longbone

    Eh, I dunno. I always thought Lucifer was more the hater of humanity and he went into rebellion because he found God’s decision to give the hairless apes, known as homo sapiens, free will and a unique soul would ultimately lead to the suffering of all creation. That in reality he’s not the ultimate libertine, but the ultimate theo-con, always wanting to shove “the truth” down everyone throat, always judging those who come up short of his beliefs, even God. What is the truth? In Lucifer’s eyes, humans are nothing but hairless apes and no matter how civilized we act, we are always one moral lapse away from reverting to crap throwing animals. The short comings and flaws attributed to “the Devil” in the bible are more man’s ignorance or inability to cope with his origins; yes he is unique in many ways from the Animal kingdom, but deep down he is an animal, always tempted by his instincts (his passions) to act like a beast. To the extent Lucifer is the motivation behind temptations, his motivation is not human liberation but “dance, monkey, dance for my amusement and justification”. Think about it.

    • Custador

      Always wanting to shove “the truth” down everybody’s throats… Always judging those who come up short in his beliefs… Breaking News: Satan is a Southern Baptist!

      • Truthsetter

        Thank you Hugo! Much better than I could and have been saying!


        Sure you can use that Southern Baptist comment as an “example” or you could also say Satan is shoving “the truth” down everyone’s throat like…. an atheist?

        • UrsaMinor

          Watch who you’re pointing that finger at. I am not “shoving the truth” down anybody’s throat. I am quite willing, however, to point in flaws in the arguments of other people who claim to know the truth, when they are actually committing errors of reasoning.

          For example, I’ve never attempted to explain what caused the Big Bang to a theist because nobody knows (although I have attempted to explain why their dismissal of the word “theory” as synonymous with “wild ass guess” is misplaced. Yes, I’m looking at you). I do not claim to know to know what caused the Big Bang, let alone claim to know The Truth Behind the Cause of The Big Bang. I have no evidence for what might have caused it- and as far as I have seen, neither does anyone else. You can, of course, say “Aha! That leaves room for my conception of god to fill the gap!”, and I will agree with that if your god’s other claimed properties are consistent with observed reality. You must also, of course, agree that other people’s gods (or none) could also fill that gap, or you’re being neither serious nor honest in putting forth your own claim.

          • Tex

            I liked Steven Hawking’s idea on how the big bang happened. He suggested that the big bang happened when a black hole sucked enough matter through and spat everything out the other side.

          • Truthsetter

            I apologize Ursa. I was not meaning to point my finger at you or call anyone here out. My point was Custador pointed a finger at religious people (which I agree some religious people DO shove their belief down people’s throats) and I have personal experience with atheists who DO shove their belief (or lack thereof) down peoples throats. To say that atheists don’t is denial.

            Fair enough, yes other peoples’ gods (or lack thereof) could possibly fill that fact of what nobody can explain. But that is my point. There is stuff that science as of yet can’t explain. I am not here to belittle atheists. I am stating my belief and my observation. If you disagree fine. I will continue to believe and share my belief. I have no reason not to.

            • Nzo

              You let us know the next time atheist leaders try to prevent you from practicing your religion in your own home/church, telling you what you can, and cannot do with your own bodies, and saying that christians aren’t really citizens of the U.S.

              Until then, admit that you’re wrong about atheists shoving their non-religion down your throat.

            • Just Visiting

              “There is stuff that science as of yet can’t explain.”

              Quite right, if it had all the answers it would’ve stopped. Only religion claims total knowledge and for me and other agnostics – around 95% sure that a god doesn’t exist but not 100% – that is what makes us reject religion (as opposed to god) When the claims of religion are found to be wrong by actual observational, repeatable, falsifiable testing and religion keeps churning out denials and pointing at their particular holy book – you’ll notice I include all religions not just xtian – denying the facts it becomes harder and harder to take them seriously.

              Surely any religion of any value would welcome an understanding of their god’s creation rather than pointing out a book that was created by man? Isn’t that like trying to understand Michelangelo by reading a biography and never seeing a statue or painting or worse saying that the studies of his work are lies or that the work doesn’t exist because it isn’t in his biography?

      • Finis

        Or Westboro Baptist, depends on how much of an extremist he is lol

  • RationalResponse

    This response is subjective, likely incorrect in some regards, and comes as a result of the patterns of thought and belief I have experienced in the past, which are no more honest and accurate as the best I am capable of, that being no more or less than most human beings. I’d be surprised if anyone could truly claim this to not be true of them as well, and still be considered a free thinker. There are a lot of posters in these comment sections that reek of narrow-mindedness, who talk as if they know their side is true and that any opposing view is idiotic. There seems to be a pattern to these comments…they appear everywhere. On some threads, the majority of these comments come from Christians. It’s usually when Christians post the most. On this board, the majority come from Atheists. That’s probably because the majority of the comments are from Atheists. Narrow-minded, dogmatic thinking comes from both sides. The trouble is, very few people would actually hold to their arguments if they thought they were being ‘dogmatic’ in the negative connotation of the term (if you’re going to post a witty response to this saying ‘there is no positive connotation’, first think to yourself if there is anything that you value enough to stand by completely (free will, for example) before you do).
    People often criticize religious people because they congregate in groups and propagate their beliefs by only interacting with people who share a similar view. This site largely does the same thing; inevitably, those who have similar views to those discussing here will remain, and eventually the community becomes a ‘bubble’ of its own sort. This is not something that can be used to argue who is right or wrong; it is simply a sociological reality. One of the major problems with a forum is like this is that you present your arguments and ideas to no one in particular. The vast majority of your readers will be under-informed or educated about the topics being discussed, and I would hope that you weigh informed understanding much higher than opinion.
    There are many atheist commenters on this site who have interesting thoughts and ideas. However, your thoughts and ideas are fallible, capable of misinterpreting, and incomplete. Claiming ‘rational thought’ as some deity that guides you is misleading; our rational thoughts tell no more truth than our underlying assumptions allow them to. And we ALL have underlying assumptions. Don’t forget that.

    • Nzo

      Was there a point to that wall of text?

      It looks to me like you just spent a lot of time writing that in an attempt to pat yourself on the back while taking shots at people who know full-well that we are fallible. Do you think you accomplished something by playing Capt. Obvious in a disgusting, passive-aggressive manner?

      • UrsaMinor

        Why, yes. He got a rise out of you.

        • Nzo

          I don’t mind being trolled, but I’ll be damned if I let the stupid cross MY bridge.

  • lol

    The Lucifer comic book series (a spin-off of Sandman written by Mike Carey) that this image is taken from is a pretty good read if any of you haven’t read it. It follows Lucifer after he abdicated Hell in Sandman. Having realized that his “rebellion” was always part of God’s plan for the cosmos, he attempts to break free and forge his own destiny.

  • Dale Sams

    Funny thing is…the Lucifer as appears in the pic (comic) is anything but a ‘good guy’…at least up until what I read. Pretty much the most self-serving creature in reality.

    I suppose he sort of ‘trys on good’ when he creates his own universe, but it’s not really his color.

  • http://www.apocalyptictremors.com Carolyn Chapman

    Paul the apostle was a man who knew what it was like to live in faith and without faith. He said that unreasonable and wicked men have not faith in Christ (2 Thess 3:2). I have absolute trust in my Saviour, Jesus, Yeshua. Fight the good fight of faith before it is too late.

    • http://fugodeus.com Nox

      Didn’t Paul “the apostle” spend his preconversion years as a pharisee (Philippians 3:5-6)? In what sense did he know what it is like to live without faith?

      • charley

        heavy sigh… the faith that i held for years was in myself; and my “best” thinking nearly destroyed my life. it saddens me to understand that any post like this opens me to scorn and open mockery from those who know nothing about me. but let me tell you, until i discovered, and invited Truth into my life, it was nothing but a cesspool of anger, alcohol, anger, drugs, and more anger. no matter the daily assaults life throws at us all i have peace and joy, a family now. to those who knew me before my life now is a miracle; unencumbered by those bondages that so controlled my life. i am not an alcoholic in remission, i am free indeed. the Light has chased that darkness from within me. i suppose that i am a poor Christian, in that i am not good at proselytizing, i find it difficult to “force” anything down anyone’s throat. i have enjoyed reading all the posts here, even though they have long since strayed from those memes way up there. to all have a blessed Christmas, from myself, and the God that has saved my life…

        • UrsaMinor

          No one is going to mock you for following a philosophy that improves your life and makes you feel good, as long as you recognize that it doesn’t work for everyone and you do not try to force it upon others, and as long as you do not harm others while practicing your beliefs.

          If you try to claim that your concept of a deity represents some sort of objective, absolute truth, then yes, you will be mocked.

        • Custador

          Oh look, another bullshit fictional conversion backstory from another dickhead who thinks his personal anecdote carries any evidential weight. Go away, religidiot.

        • Kodie

          The “truth,” if it has to be framed this way, is that you didn’t believe in yourself and now you do. For you to take an external “salvation” figure to “believe” in you for you to make the changes you needed, that’s all any of us can tell that it is. Atheists are not all the same, it’s just that atheism (or not believing in god) is not at all equivalent to addiction. When you change, it’s you who changes, it’s you who sees that you needed to in order not to completely destruct, not someone who changes you, or saved you from yourself. Lots of addicts or people in other sort of crummy lifestyle patterns don’t need Jesus to love them, they can love themselves. Jesus didn’t save you, you applied what you were going through to a religious scheme and the method of external love from an imaginary friend appealed to you. Apparently in the state you were in, nothing else did.

        • atheisttundra

          I have all that good stuff in my life and I’m an atheist… I’m not angry, using drugs and drink, etc etc.

    • Harley Man

      Amen Brother…I pray for these lost souls that embrace Lucifer and his mind control…they are lost sheep.

      • Sunny Day

        Just because you see yourself as a sheep needing direction doesn’t mean everyone else does too.

  • Rico

    As someone who was an Altar boy for 5 years and a devote catholic at one time who is now a Pagan. That bible stole alot of Pagan beleifs

    • Harley Man

      the Catholic religion is rooted in satanic beliefs….true Christianity is God reaching down to save mankind from Satans evil twisted mind control…Jesus never said do not do this or that…he said come to me as you are. he even ate and drank with evil sinners. Jesus is not for the well…but for the un-well. he comes to heal our soul and not judge us …until the judgement day. GOD gave us freewill…Lucifer does not, because he wants “total” control of your mind and soul. God bless. and Jesus is Lord.

      • Sunny Day

        Umm Jesus had all kind of commandments. Sell your clothes, buy a sword, give away all your possessions ect…

      • Emily

        “If God had wanted me otherwise, he would have created me otherwise”- Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

        I, too, am Pagan and I believe you misinterpret what we believe. We are not anti-Christian. In fact, we believe in God. We also believe in the Goddess. There is a balance in the masculine and feminine and embrace both in our lives. I have a healthy respect for Christianity, truly, I do. I don’t necessarily believe all that is said to have transpired within the Bible, but that is neither here nor there. The truth of the matter is that, in fact, Paganism was around long before Christianity began and a lot of Christian traditions are based on our festivals that we have on the solstices and equinox.

        Easter, for example, is the day you celebrate Jesus rebirth (or something to that effect if I remember my past religious experience correctly). What exactly do you think that eggs and bunnies are incorporated into this occasion for? The answer… eggs and bunnies and sheep and all those soft cuddly baby animals are part of the fertility festival that we have around then called Ostara. Closely followed is May Day which we call Beltane. The may pole is a Pagan tradition which represented the phallus of the God and the ribbons and flowers used represent the fertile womb of the Goddess.
        Samhain is the day we celebrate what you know as Halloween, which isn’t necessarily a Christian holiday but it is widely recognized. It’s a day for remembering one’s dead and looking towards the future with hope.

        Last, but certainly not least, is Yule. “Yule-tide carols” ring any bells? It is, in the Goddess worship, the time when she gives forth again to the birth of the Divine Sun child who shall be both child and eventually lover and father of the next child in the cycle. It is a time of feasting and exchanging gifts and is the original Holiday that the Christian religions modified into their own Christmas, even up to the birth of the child (Most theologians who have spent time studying the birth of Jesus admit he was born in either March or April, not the celebrated Christmas date we all know from the standard calendar. Traditional adornments for the solstice are the Yule log, later adopted into the Christmas tree, holly and mistletoe.

        I’d like to put out there that I’m in no way attacking you or your beliefs but I did feel it was necessary to point these things out and back up, I believe, the only other Pagan on this board. Blessed be!

        • Rico

          Thank you, Brightest of Blessings ^_^

    • Ac

      Ah yes, the bible stole it.

  • http://www.halfbakedpotatoes.com/creamofthecrop Half Baked Potatoes

    You can’t take quotes from a 2000 year old book and use them in a logical argument. I don’t care what the meaning was or the definition of the word. If you look in the bible long enough you will see a rule banning the wearing of cloths made from different fabrics. Any organized faith based belief system is stupid anyway. The first person can have faith in something but if he teaches that to his kids then the kids don’t have faith. They are just believing what they are told and if they question it then they are told to have faith.

  • Harley Man

    Lucifer is a weak bully and a spineless worm.

    • Sunny Day

      Don’t hold back, tell that fictional character what you really think of him.

    • izz

      Is he now?

    • Darwin

      A guy going up against an all-powerful god who told him to bow down and be subservient? Sounds more a traditional underdog story. Does hell have wise Chinese janitors?

    • http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite

      Weak? Look at the state of the world and the power of corruption and seduction, all attributed to Lucifer whispering in the ear of god’s creation, and tell me how that’s weak.

      Bully? Like somebody who creates an impossible and at times contradictory set of commandments and creates eternal, agonising consequences for failing to live up to them, then changes the game by deciding that it isn’t all that important how you live so long as you happen to have been born in a time and place where you had the opportunity to hear about his son’s existence and you happened to believe it despite literally no evidence to support the various claims made about him one way or the other, all the while telling you how much of a failure you are and how you were a failure and dirty and sinful since before you were even born? That sounds like bullying to me, but it sure doesn’t sound like Lucifer.

      Spineless? Standing up to the almighty and encouraging mankind to do the same? Doesn’t sound particularly spineless to me. Spineless is worshipping an entity that happily murders the entire population of Earth because if you don’t, you worry something bad will happen.

      • Emily


        • Skeptical Goat


          • Miyi

            I usually never comment on posts like these..however, your comment that God continually reminds us of “how much of a failure you are and how you were a failure and dirty and sinful since before you were even born” caught my attention. A word came to mind: redeemed. The whole point of Christianity is to reconnect to an Almighty God from whom we’ve been separated because of sin. When that reconnection happens, it is the most perfect reunion anyone can imagine. Yes, at the feet of a holy God, I realize just how much sin messes up my life. But He redeems us. Because of the blood of Jesus Christ we are washed clean. Dirty no more.

            • Morpheus91

              @Miyi: You totally missed the point of the post. The bible continually comments on the depravity of man. Jesus states that any who do not come to him shall die in sin. “Cleansing” someone for something god supposedly created isn’t love, and it isn’t mercy, and being reunited with such a sadistic god isn’t my idea of a perfect union.

      • Bruce

        So John, you believe that God exists? or are you arguing against something that isn’t real? Im a bit confused coz that seems silly.

        If you do believe he is real and he is God, unfortunately what he says goes… sucks hey.

        But Kudos to you and Lucy for standing up for your rights, you tell that entity! Arrrr

  • Amazed

    I’m always amazed at just how much people can argue about a subject where there is no proof one way or another. Is it an ego thing? Or do they honestly think that they’ll change an opposing person’s views?

    …Or I guess everyone could just be trolling.

    • Darwin

      And the agnostic enters the fray in order to tell us all how much better they are than us for not having an argument at all.

      • Amazed

        Just curious what the point is. There’s not much chance anyone’s going to change their opinion.

        • Darwin

          If you’re so convinced that nobody will ever change their mind, why did you make your post?

          • Sunny Day

            Feeling superior is a game even Christians, Atheists and Agnostics can play.

          • Amazed

            To try and understand where it’s coming from. It’s always entertaining to read these threads, but I honestly don’t understand why anyone takes such offense to another persons views on something that can’t be proven. I appreciate an exchanging of opinions. But there’s not really a middle ground in this kind of topic, so I just want to understand if anyone really thinks they’ll convert someone, or if there’s another point to it.

            • http://themikewrites.blogspot.com JohnMWhite

              There’s another point. It is unlikely (but not impossible) that you’ll convert the person you are arguing with, but the more people who read through the argument, the more likely there is to be a ripple effect that reaches out to somebody, somewhere. What is important to a lot of people is that they and others be allowed to live their lives how they wish to, and so atheists and secularists are liable to try to stand up to and challenge any assertion of religious authority or correctness because otherwise all sorts of bad things happen. Like gay people being executed, women being forcibly used as incubators, and politicians thinking they have a role in the End Times that will likely start a nuclear war and get us all killed. The religious, similarly, have their issues they want to avoid occurring, such as god’s displeasure with a permissive society leading to natural disasters or economic ruin, and they at times even care about the celestial fate of those they challenge.

              Also there’s the fact that people like to feel somewhat superior to someone else and might get carried away, aghast that someone could believe something so absurd or immoral or whatever, and unexpectedly find themselves descending down the rabbit hole in a spiral of arguing. Still, I wouldn’t say these arguments are for the most part pointless.

            • kholdom0790

              No, actually you don’t seem to appreciate an exchanging of opinions, otherwise you would have kept your mouth shut.

        • Kodie

          A lot of people have changed their “opinion.” It’s not really an opinion. There’s no proof of god, just a lot of nonsense, that doesn’t make believing in god a valid “opinion.” Just because an idea is out there doesn’t make it at all a valid possibility or probability, however you like to think of it. Saying, “well, there might be a god” because a lot of people are saying there is, is to ignore the subject entirely and personally validate the option of there being a god. There’s no reason for that type of ignorance.

          On the other hand, not everything seems to make a whole lot of sense sometimes. That’s not really a good idea to say, “well, maybe there’s god.” Get a grip on how coincidences work, how your brain works, and all that. Inserting a possibility of a giant life-worker is really a figment of imagination. Straddling the fence as a position is to not really consider what might be factual by actively using your brain at all. I mean, I get that, too. “You all sort this out and get me the answer later,” I might say about certain things. So it’s not important to me that this is important to you. But shut your piehole, I think, is an apt remark. If you have given it enough thought to seek out a website, and then make a response, then you are interested enough to think it all the way through.

          • http://notebookinhand.com atheisttundra

            I really like you and your arguments, Kody. :)

    • Bill

      “…about a subject where there is no proof one way or another.”

      You honestly think the existence of god/satan is equally likely and unlikely?

  • nick

    you guys are pussies. the devil’s is evil and fucking awesome its not supposed to sound good. its supposed to sound badass. thats why johnny’s is worse, because it isnt METAL.

  • nick

    you’re also a bunch of pussies for getting into a religious debate over a meme. god is dead. but satan fucking THRIIIIVES. SLAAAYERRRRR

    • Custador

      Not sure if trolling, 12 year old, idiot or combination of those….

  • Rico
  • http://www.cynicalreviews.net Cynical Reviews


  • http://www.wakinggod.com Philip Harris

    If you want a totally new take on Lucifer, read the Waking God books, I, II, III. The last of the trilogy is titled, The Second Coming of Humanity. In the series Lucifer is humanity’s benefactor and Michael is man’s nemesis. As Mantrella (a.k.a. Lucifer) says, “It’s not about saving humanity, it never has been.”

  • http://www.bunchoffakers.com TMac

    if the Bible has all the answers and is God’s word….why have so many professed Christians not taken the time to read the whole thing?

    but have time to update facebook statuses about God, argue on meme posts and the like?

    b/c they don’t really think it is the true word. they’re just covering their bases and profess to believe.

    then they pick and choose about sex outside of marriage, divorce, abortion, the tithe etc. what a bunch of fakers.

    • trj

      Nah, I’m pretty sure most of them believe the Bible to be the true word of God. It’s just that when you already have your pastor or your family to tell you what’s in the Bible, many are too lazy to confirm it. They may read some of the nice parts, but they’ll skip the rest since they already have all they need. They’re just lazy.

  • Seth

    Well, considering neither are real, in the fictional story of the bible, god is a dick but the protagonist of the story and the devil is a nice guy getting shit on, these memes explain it well…

  • the Rabbit

    A thousand years from now, ancient manuscripts will be discovered. The “Books of Marvel” with the teachings of Stan Lee. It will be noted, that the peoples of the 20-21st Century worshiped several gods, clad in tights and capes of an array of varying colour.
    They will also find a temple, buried in the jungle of was once called Florida. These people worshiped a 4 foot mouse. After each vernal equinox, and before the summer solstice waned into autumn, they would bring their children for his blessings.

    • grrrlgeek

      +1000 points.

  • just some guy

    The Devil vs. Johnny fiddle fight raises an interesting question:
    “Can Charlie Daniels play fiddle so awesome even HE can’t beat himself?”

    • dude

      yes, then he would play an even more awesome piece by simply raising the maximum scale of awesome

  • PVC Bending

    these are freakin great. shared.

    i want every christian in the world to see this.

    ha ha ha ha ha!

  • The Devil

    Fuck you, guys. Johnny sucked. My piece was wayyyy better.

  • witness

    Very interesting, but almost all (aside from the one about Johnny, which was hysterical, I’ve always thought that) present a very flawed, and superficial understanding of Bible text, theology and Christian history.

    • Custador

      You mean we haven’t taken the time to do the absurd mental gymnastics required to change a straight reading of the Bible as a patenty absurd crock of shit, to a profoundly meaningful life-coaching manual that happens to be highly encrypted?

    • Elemenope

      In what particular way do any of these present a superficial understanding of Biblical text, theology, or Christian history? These are funny to people precisely because they effectively lampoon a theological trick with which we are all familiar (using Satan as an explanatory out for all of God’s imputed bad acts). The reason we are all familiar with this theological trick is because it is popular, commonly used, and generally endorsed one way or another by pretty much every theologian who attempts to construct a theodicy.

      • witness

        First, allow me to begin by pointing out that Theology is the study of GOD, and seeks to answer basic, fundamental questions about the nature of reality and man. Questions asked by Theologians are often very simaler to those asked by existential philosphers. What is the meaning of life? What is the nature of man? What is the nature of eternity? What is the nature of GOD, an infinite being beyond the scope of human comprehension, and how does he/it relate to man? These are all theological questions. As such, Theology is incredibly complex. Asking for a simple answer to a major theological question is like asking for a simple answer to a major philosphical question.

        But as for the images themselves, the most obvious one is the one that says “Punishes evildoers in the afterlife…”Bad guy”. The whole concept that Lucifer punishes evildoers in the afterlife is not at all a part of theology, and is nothing more than a common misconception. Hell was created as a prison for Lucifer, for him, to punish other people. He does not rule it, but is waiting here to meet his fate there. Christ reffered to Lucifer as thhe prince of this world (John 16:11), and in Job, when Satan appears before GOD, he say’s that he has been roaming about the earth (Job 1:8). The idea of Lucifer ruling Hell and punishing sinners come from mostly from pseudo myths and, renaissance artwork and modern pop culture.

        • Custador

          Theology is the art of finding creative ways to explain absolute bullshit. Religious theologians don’t ask real questions, because they think they already have all the answers: “Because God did it”. Therefore they avoid asking any question which they can’t apply that answer to, and if anybody else asks that question, then they really earn their salt, by performing all kinds of ridiculous mental gymnastics, straw-men and semantic sleights of hand.

        • Kodie

          I think you didn’t understand. The devil doesn’t exist, but everything that goes bad is blamed on the devil – if the devil has no powers, as you say, and is only waiting in prison, how does the common theological practice of blaming Satan work?

        • Sunny Day

          “Theology is the study of GOD…. GOD an infinite being beyond the scope of human comprehension.”

          So when you’re done studying god, how do you determine if you have any right answers?

        • trj

          Theology is incredibly complex.

          Theology? You mean apologetics. And the only reason it’s complex is because you must jump through hoops to make things fit your preconceived idea of God.

          It’s pretty obvious that many other theologians/apologists don’t share your ideas of God, Satan, demonic possession, etc (or maybe those other guys aren’t True Theologians?). Of course, none of you can ever establish who is right, or for that matter even show a flimsy basis for God existing in the first place. So much for the usefulness of your “theology”.

  • witness

    To clarify my post, I said Lucifer was waiting for prison, not in prison. Therefore, I never said Satan doesn’t have power, nor does the Bible. The Gospels actually record several demonic possessions, one of which causes the possessed to gain remarkable strength in addition to causing them to go mad. Nor did I or The Bible ever say Satan is to blame for all the worlds problems. In fact, most are caused by the actions if people; Satan may tempt humanity to do wrong, but they still must choose to do it. For example, a person is hurt by a drunk driver; Satan did not do it, the driver did. Satan may have tempted them to get drunk and tempted them with pride to think they could drive in that condition, but they still chose to do so as an act of free will.

    • Sunny Day

      So then you are saying god is responsible for all the evil in the world. Thats some refreshing honesty.


  • anon

    at first, reading all the comments.. i was tired of reading about who was better.. the devil or johnny.

    then, because we can’t just let a joke ride if it involves religion, it became against god or the devil.

    and on that note..

    charlie daniels can play a mean ass fiddle.

  • Shelton

    Loved the premises, but just scrolled down ’cause I don’t have the time to read ALL the posts.
    The Devil’s fiddle playing was just a lot of fast finger-work…impressive, but not music. Even with a Band of Demons.
    BTW, Lucifer means Fire Bringer or Light Bringer…otherwise we’d be in darkness.
    I mean, what is Good without Evil?

    (Time Bandits is required watching)

  • spiritanointed

    now, these comments are totally tl;dr, so no one is going to get to mine.
    but here goes nothin’.

    1. To my fellow Christians, having to argue about religion betrays your lack of faith. God does not need you to defend Him. You need Him to defend you.

    2. To counter popular misconception of Christianity: According to Revelation, Satan and his angels are tormented in Hell, they do not do any punishing.

    • Fox

      Really? Then why is hell seen as Satan’s Kingdom?

    • Fox

      After thought. Common saying where I am from. “If god won’t take you then the devil must.”

  • kaylz

    who said intelligence isn’t a curse.