A reasonable blog on atheism, religion, science and skepticism
Follow Patheos Atheist:
There was recently an article in my local paper about Mormon missionaries, and it basically for an apologetic for the LDS church. Anyway, in the article it said that Mormons believe that 99% of us are going to heaven anyway. It didn’t state what you had to do to stay out of heaven, but if being gay is what keeps you out of heaven, doesn’t that account for about 10% of us?
Having gay tendencies or living a gay lifestyle would not keep a person or soul out of heaven in the Mormon belief system. Those excluded from heaven would be an extremely few persons who have received a personal Witness of the Divinity of Christ & then proceed to actively work against Christ & His Plan for people on earth. Actually it would be less than 99% who will be cast out & dwell with Satan. One could count those persons on the fingers on one hand. I share this to enlighten, not to argue about it. The LDS faith embraces many unique concepts, unfamiliar & seemingly strange to many people. Their theology teaches that Christ is the head of the church. He always has been & always will be. It teaches that Christ is Divine, Overcame Death, & Suffered for the sins of mankind & womankind in the Garden of Gethsemany. We believe in a Three part Godhead: God the Father, his Son Jesus Christ & the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit. I hope this brings some light to the discussion about “Mormons”.
This is confusing to me because it safely avoids calling out many Christians including Catholics, plus on a greeting card, it’s safe to mock Mormons, but not, say, Jews, like a recorded greeting card warning you not to play it on Saturday. Mormons are “kooky” with their weird underwear and golden tablets revealing bonus scripture, more akin to the sort of superstitions that most people recognize separately from popular religious beliefs. I guess it’s one thing Christians and atheists can agree on, and who’s going to complain since the recipient is probably not Mormon. I once knew online a guy who was tormented because he was a gay Mormon, extremely self-loathing and found it impossible to deny the LDS as truth.
Kodie, I think the Mormon reference is in response to Proposition 8 in California which was vigorously fought for by the LDS. I don’t believe that any other church has tried to legislate against gay marriage, or that any other church would be willing to spend the dollars that the LDS did to get it passed. IMO they deserve calling out.
I guess I wasn’t thinking about it that way. Makes sense now, thanks.
I’m not disagreeing with your assessment, but in the interests of information, I would like to point out that the Mormon history of interfering in gay marriage rights can be traced back several years, and includes them pairing up with the Catholic church (which had a better social image at the time) in Hawaii in the ’90s to stop same-sex marriage. I learned about this when I was reading an interview with the makers of that Prop 8 documentary. If I recall correctly, the internal church memos that were in the news for a bit detail the association in depth.
It was the poor public image of Mormonism that inspired them to join with the Catholics and form a Focus on the Family type group — the same strategy they used in Prop 8, with the so-called “third party” supposedly not associated with the church leading the charge against gay marriage.
The idea of 99 percent of people going to heaven is not completely true.
Mormons believe that in the end, most people will accept Christ and receive a level of salvation. This may not come until after some buffeting in the spirit world after death. Earth life is partially a testing ground to see who can abide the laws of God. There are those who have strong faith in Christ and are valiant in that testimony. They will receive a higher reward. Others are not and are more focused on the things of the world. Then there is a small few who after knowing Christ and the path to salvation, will reject it anyway. In essense, these people are like Satan who also knows the plan and rejects it. They simply choose not to receive any reward from Christ. These are they who are thrust out.
Mormons do not believe in an eternally burning hell but that our dissapointment may seem like it. Mormons do believe that the wicked who live here will live in a kind of temporary spirit prison called hell in the spirit world and will suffer until they accept Christ. This is actually a merciful process to help them to come unto Christ. Those who have not received the gospel here will be taught by a just God after they are dead.
Ahhh, more milk before meat. I look forward to the spirit world buffeting, I hope it’s all you can eat. What do you mean it’s not that kind of buffet?
I’m a gambler by nature. I’m willing to place much higher odds on the likelihood that Joe Smith was a con man who wanted to sleep with other people’s wives than on the likelihood that that theological mumbo jumbo has a shred of truth in it.
I’ll just go ahead and push all my chips to the ‘waiting for a spiritual buffeting before I buy any of this bullshit’ option.
Sounds a bit like ‘torture until you agree with me’. Seems a bit Medieval to me. I’d have hoped ‘ol Jesus was a bit more of a progressive liberal. I guess I must have hoped wrong.
Also seems like two pretty shitty options: worship me and grovel at my feet forever or I will torture you until you decide to do so, forever.
Thank god these crazies are delusional, I can’t think of anything worse than them being right.
I’m an empiricist. I expect to determine the answer to this question directly.
I am not sure why they are picking on Mormons. In fact, very few people are capable of getting into hell in the Mormon belief system. The vast majority, who either never heard the word of God or rejected it, will return to live forever on a perfected Earth where there’s no illness or war but never see God or Jesus, with only the Holy Spirit as their guide. Another portion, who tried to live the “truth” but failed will go to an even better Earth where they will help Jesus doing stuff. And the elect will go to the celestial kingdom, where they will hang around with their heavenly father and SOME of those will become gods themselves, starting their own Universes.
To get into hell in the Mormon belief system, you need to have had a clear knowledge of the “Truth” and then rejected it. And even those few will only be in hell for a while until they work out their repentance. Maybe they meant Catholics?
They are picking on Mormons because of Prop 8. You know, when the LDS church threw enormous money and resources at denying gays basic human rights. At this point, the LDS has a little of this coming to them.
I believe the Catholic church was also heavily involved but hid their tracks better.
Note that not all Mormons are against same-sex marriage; I know one group blog (Feminist Mormon Housewives) that was mostly quite happy that the appeal court upheld the overturning of Prop 8.
Well, I guess those Mormons will be going to 2nd or 3rd heaven. Bring on the buffeting!
Here’s a great example of how gloriously, creatively wrong Mormons can be: http://www.ourhollowearth.com/TheLivingEarth.htm It’s even got a map of Eden in the hollow Earth!
Thanks for the link – a great, imaginative, but wrong vision of the world.
Follow Patheos on