PvP: Patriarch vs. Puritan

At first glance, this doesn’t seem like it would lead to any controversy: Mark and Grace Driscoll are planning to speak at Liberty University. Not much conflict there, right?

Well, wrong, as Matthew Paul Turner is covering.

Driscoll is a big fan of sex, so long as it’s heterosexual married sex and the women folk remember to be responsive, submissive and don’t get any ideas above their God appointed station.

He’s a patriarch. Respect his authority and he’s fine. Reject his authority – by, for example, having differing opinions – and he’ll f’ck you up.

According to Peter Lumpkins, the trustees at Liberty University are of a different mind:

Sources say trustees took a vote, and the vote was unanimous indicating that Mark Driscoll is not welcome at Liberty University. In addition to Driscoll’s “potty mouth” approach to pulpit etiquette playing a role in their decision, his “Reformed” theology, Acts 29 Network, and the provocative hedonistic understanding of a___ s__ came up as well … Trustees were apparently flabbergasted that Driscoll was considered for an invitation in the first place.

These folks are puritans, desperately afraid that someone, somewhere is having fun, and then using old Saxon words to describe it.

But wait, now the Liberty U website is denying this claim:

On April 4, 2012, a Southern Baptist blogger, Peter Lumpkins, wrote an innacurate account of Liberty’s recent Board of Trustees meeting as it relates to the university’s invitation to Mark Driscoll to speak in Convocation. Lumpkin’s recent blog contains information that is defamatory and portrays Liberty University in a false light.

The Board of Trustees of Liberty University did not vote unanimously that Mark Driscoll is not welcome on campus, as the blog states, and, in fact, Mark Driscoll is still scheduled to speak in Convocation at Liberty University on April 20, 2012.

Meanwhile, Sophia at Mars Hill Refuge, a blog for recovering members of Mars Hill, is busy pouring kerosene on the flames:

So to raise curiosity about a problem (emotional and spiritual devastation coming out of Mars Hill church) that we have seen for years in our community and now spreading nationwide as Driscoll’s fame and Acts 29 church network grows, we need to spark curiosity about what is happening behind the scenes. If demand is created then news outlets will cover these devastating stories of people who were once on the inner circle of Mars Hill church. Since Driscoll is a national bestseller and getting lots of media attention we decided to petition Liberty University to rescind their invite for Driscoll to speak on their campus on April 20th. We think that would get the conservatives and fundamentalists engaged as well. Once the truth is brought to light then healing can begin, as any survivor will tell you.

I’m very curious to see how this plays out.

  • http://afrolatinoatheist.tumblr.com dantresomi

    I am really scratching my head on this. Doesn’t Liberty University support folks like Driscoll? So then why are folks petitioning NOT to have him on there if that’s what Liberty pushes?

  • vasaroti

    From the Mars Hill Refuge petition:
    ““Jesus Christ commands you to [perform oral sex on your husband]….What I would say to you as well, ladies, I probably shouldn’t, that most of your husbands wake up in the morning with an erection, and so rather than setting the alarm, if this was the way that you helped to awaken them, they would have a great day.”

    So women are now encouraged to somehow wake up before the alarm and wake hubby with a BJ? A man may work from sun to sun, but a woman’s work is never done.

    I have no way of knowing whether Driscoll or Liberty are worse when it comes to stultifying intellects or physical abuse, so I’ll just wish them both a heap of misery.

    • Elemenope

      When a prude collides with a misogynist, the results are usually amusing in a vaguely schadenfreuderiffic soft of way.

      • Darwin

        Is that the adjective version of Schadenfreude or a mash-up of that and terrific? I really can’t tell.

        • Elemenope

          I was going for the second. :)

          • Darwin

            Kudos for the portmanteau than.

            • UrsaMinor

              My favorite is still “Schadenfreudegasm”.

              It’s the feeling that the British experience when they contemplate the American health care system.

            • Custador

              Not really. I contemplate the American healthcare system and all I feel is bewildered sadness for the legions of people who needlessly suffer and die just because they’re not rich. It’s the ultimate expression of everything that’s wrong with Western capitalism – Your worth as a person judged solely according to your financial status.

  • Ty

    I do not respect Mark’s authority. He is welcome to try and f*ck me up at his convenience.

    • Custador

      I’d get that on pay-per-view.

      • UrsaMinor

        Yeah, I’d pay to see that. The smart money is on Ty.

    • Schaden Freud

      Get a venue and sell tickets. Could be a good little earner.

  • Noelle

    Am I a prude for not wanting to hear about Driscoll’s sex life? It does make me wonder how many times he runs up to Grace with Bible in hand saying he found another secret verse on what God wants her to do to him today.

    Blow jobs are still more palatable than his views on stay-at-home dads and women pastors though. If I had to choose my level of Driscoll Hell, I’d probably stick with the oral sex.

  • Paul

    While I do get a nice snicker at the interneccine fighting I find that after that all this illicits is a yawn. Liberty University and the rest should have been buried along with St. Falwell. It is a problem with being an atheist in the USA. The likes of Driscoll and the rest long ago had their 15 minutes of fame.

    I feel the I have wasted enough of my life worrying about or paying any attention to the invisible sky daddy devotees. I think its time for a schism where we separate from those mired in fairy tales of primitive man and just leave them behind in the dust. Something akin to Ayn Rand’s producers leaving the dross of society, setting out for a new home in Galt’s Gulch.

    I see no reason to keep investing our time with those who we aren’t going to sway with logic and reason. I’m not sure where that would lead from here, but its something I have been thinking of for a while. Perhaps something like the idea the libertarians had a few years ago about moving en masse to a small state where they could be a majority. They really weren’t able to pull it off but it seems like a good idea to start with.

    • vasaroti

      Some days self-ghettoization seems like a good idea. But think more, and see the serious logistic and security problems that would arise.

      For me one of the main objectives of being an out atheist is to debunk the prevalent notion that we are “the other.”

      • UrsaMinor

        Good point. I am not remarkably different from my neighbors, save for the fact that I do not worship any deities, and the only way to educate them on this point is to interact with them.

    • FO

      Secluding yourself in a ghetto would make all those cooks drool, it would make easier for everyone else to ignore reason and dwell in gullibility.
      By challenging and exposing superstition we can change society for the better.

    • Kodie

      Given the law of the land, I have no intention of picking up and moving somewhere else. It’s not like we all have to locate ourselves to our own nation to communicate either. And forgive me, I think the freedom of worship is important, otherwise we have to have “thought police.” It might seem like it would be a nicer, less bullsh1t place to live, but it would be difficult (and probably wrong) to constrain beliefs over time, although certainly possible to keep it to a minimal minority through education and culture. I’m also thinking how do we obtain a chunk of land to ourselves? Nobody wants to be displaced, and everyone doesn’t want to move there. Preference of climate and environment is pretty important to people, as is proximity to jobs and family. And giving them what they want? A theocracy? That’s not the law of the land – why give in?

      It would be different if you did live in a theocracy, then it might make sense to choose another place to live that already exists.

      • Brian K

        I would also point out that the narrow-mindedness, group think and internecine squabbles among “objectivists” rivals any Christian schism.

        Living in a Galtian Ghetto sounds mighty awful to me.

        • Elemenope

          Not to mention that in Galt’s Gulch, nobody wants to be the trash collector.

          • Revyloution

            I always feel compelled to apologize every time someone mentions Objectivism. Some people take drugs in college, I dabbled in greed based philosophy. Im sorry, I feel bad and I promise I’ll never do it again.

  • http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com stephy

    I am part of the group that initiated this petition and I talk about my reasons for it on this podcast, in case anyone is curious.

    http://dongtini.com/shows/Dongtini-Episode-038-April-2-2012.mp3

    • Kodie

      Can’t you just relay that information here? How long is this podcast? I put it on and ff’d to the part about arms and needles and laughing and wondered, what the shet, lady. You want to say something, how many hours of podcast do we have to listen to get to your point? And 2 parts? Or 2 posts linking to the same one?

      • Elemenope

        The discussion on the petition starts at 28:30.

        • Kodie

          I have no intention of listening to it then. Stephy should just sum up what she said in the podcast.

  • http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com stephy

    I am part of the group that initiated this petition and I talk about my reasons for it on this podcast, in case anyone is curious.

    http://dongtini.com/2012/04/05/dongtini-episode-38-2/


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