Was Jesus a Muslim?

No.

I don’t think Jesus was a follower of Islam, and neither does Robert F. Shedinger, Associate Professor of Religion at Luther College. But you could be forgiven for thinking that Shedinger believed that if you only read the title of his book Was Jesus a Muslim?, if you read the World Net Daily article, or The Blaze article. Or if you watched this clumsy interview:

Shedinger is trying to be deliberately provocative, and I think it’s causing more confusion than it’s worth.

Just for the record, Shedinger starts off his book by saying, “Obviously, since Islam developed in seventh-century Arabia, hundreds of years after Jesus lived, it is chronologically impossible tor Jesus to have been a Muslim.” So, yeah, there’s that.

Shedinger’s discussion is driven by his experiences after 9/11, when he found himself trying to explain Islam to the public while at the same time trying to reconcile the textbook description of Islam with the perceptions of his few Muslim students. The experience led him to question the value of the word “religion” and the potted definitions of religious movements generally given in World Religion classes. This explains the subtitle of his book, Questioning Categories in the Study of Religion.

Just having poked at the book on Google Books, I think it can basically be boiled down to these points:

  1. The category of “religion” is problematic, and the usual academic definitions of religion don’t match the lived experience of of the people who practice those religions.
  2. Once you set aside the textbook definitions, it looks like Islam began more as a movement for social justice than as a theological system.
  3. Once you set aside the textbook definitions, it looks like Christianity began more as a movement for social justice than as a theological system.
  4. Therefore, Jesus and Muhammad were doing similar things. Since the category of religion is so problematic, we can discard that and focus on the fact that both men were part of – broadly speaking – the same movement.
  5. And here’s the payoff: by recognizing what Jesus and Muhammad had in common, we can find common ground to bridge the gap between Christianity and Islam, engage in dialogue and hopefully erase some of the acrimony between the two cultures.

I’ve got problems with points 2 and 3, and questions about point 4, but Shedinger can at least cite respectable scholars who agree with him and I respect his motivations. I’m not sure I agree with him, but he’s playing the game by the rules.

  • vasaroti

    A movement for social justice is not the same as a rebellion against an occupying force. There was more social justice, as we understand it, in Roman law than in the systems of government described in the Old Testament.
    Even if the two religions actually did start as social justice movements, neither religion would admit it.

  • http://www.nature.com Agnikan

    It depends on how you define “islam”.

  • Igor

    That interviewer should reconsider careers…

  • Mahousniper

    Point 4 says “Since the category of religion is so problematic, we can discard that.” That sounds less intellectual and more just lazy.

  • http://genxhumanist.blogspot.com/ GenXHumanist

    Was Jesus a Muslim? For most of the world’s 1 billion Muslims, the answer is simple: Yes. They say all the ‘prophets’ throughout history are Muslim, including Jesus. They say Jesus talked about Allah and Islam, but Christians changed the Bible to remove all these references. They not only believe Jesus was Muslim, they believe ALL humans are born Muslim. This little theological maneuver ‘improves’ upon Christian theology by giving a clear answer on the ‘salvation’ of babies and people who never heard of Islam before they die.

    • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

      And we r not 1 billion we r much more than that search and u will reach to the exact number.

  • busterggi

    As long as we’re comparing Jesus and Mohammed why not consider Superman as well – what’s one more fictional character?

    • UrsaMinor

      Because there’s very little doubt that Mohammed was a real, historical person, and Superman didn’t start a religion.

    • ItzMe

      Yeshua and Mohammed existed, the stories told of these men are questionable???? They were literally the MLKs of their error and as people forgot about them the original oppressor again rewrote these people’s story and changed the images in their favor. SuperMan is another outrageous crazy plagiarism of this.

  • sendi

    This Islamic guide is for non-Muslims who would like to understand Islam, Muslims (Moslems), and the Holy Quran (Koran). It is rich in information, references, bibliography, and illustrations. It has been reviewed and edited by many professors and well-educated people. It is brief and simple to read, yet contains much scientific knowledge. It contains the whole book, A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam, and more. The contents of this guide follow. http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1-1-a.htm

  • sendi
  • http://www.youtube.com/kwisatz73 KingdomNigh

    “Shedinger is trying to be deliberately provocative, and I think it’s causing more confusion than it’s worth.”

    I think you hit it right on the head here. How many facts can you strip away before you’ve abstracted away everything meaningful?

    It’s also chronologically impossible for the Christians to have altered all the bible manuscripts – by the time Islam was channeled to Mo, the texts had been distributed throughout the scattered churches. In fact the Quran wasn’t ever written down until Christian slaves of the Muslims invented Arabic scripts for that purpose, so how they would have identified such convenient alterations is beyond me.

    Supposing Jesus were a “precursor” to Mohammed, we’re supposed to accept that Jesus, who walked blamelessly, was not a “greater prophet” than a man who massacred caravans for profit, wasn’t sure whether he was visited by an angel or a devil, married a 9-year old, made treaties only to break them, and never healed or resurrected anyone in his life. Where is the honor and glory in this? This is all on the record, too…

    Jesus preached the Kingdom of God, which bring life and that more abundant to those who seek and enter, and proves His claims of divinity. It operates even now. Sadly even much of the church neglects to seek it. Check the link, you’ll see what I mean.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    First of all , I would like to comment on the five points, if after his research for years he discovered that Islam” began more as a movement for social justice than as a theological system”

    I am sorry to say, his research was not good enough, because when Prophet Muhammad started his mission it was to turn people from worshipping statues to worshipping one God , Allah, and when we say Allah we mean in your understanding GOd, but even this word God if u search for its meaning in the old Greek dogma, it does not mean Monotheism, anyways. I did not read the book can’t judge it, but if what u wrote is the summary of what he reached to, then he is wrong, because The core Idea in Islam was to worship one God, and after that when the Islamic society was built, later he started to teach them “social justice & human rights” and what to practice, and what not to practice, he called for high morals to prevent all human race from poverty corruption & misjustice, and it was all by revelation not from himself .
    Sorry for the long comment, I know most of you will not like my comment, but it is my obligation when I read this to clear such a misconception of our Relegion, Islam is a Relegion and it is a faith, one man research will not change this fact.

    • Sunny Day

      “….., later he started to teach them “social justice & human rights” and what to practice, and what not to practice, he called for high morals to prevent all human race from poverty corruption & misjustice, and it was all by revelation not from himself .”

      I think that’s going to be one of the funniest things I’ve read all day.

      • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

        Thank you , it is only natural to say that when u did not read properly about Islam, and u read and listen about it from only one side.

        Ask and read from the correct sources before you start laughing.

        • Sunny Day

          And then you followed it with something abjectly stupid.

          Looks like you were just an idiot with pie on their face after all.
          Sorry.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    Prophet Muhammad and his followers mentioned in the Bible
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRH_7t6OV0M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    I hope you would search what was written in this YouTube in your Bible , and think from a justified point of view without extremism.

    Thank you

    • Nox

      Everything in that video is wrong.

      The video is centered around partially quoting some verses from the bible which make no mention whatsoever of Muhammed, and declaring that they must be about Muhammed. They are not. The first example is explicitly about Moses receiving the law from yhvh. The second example is most likely referring to Joshua. If the example from Isaiah were talking about an actual book, it would have to be a book written long before the 7th Century.

      Wait? What’s that? The christian gospels claim judaism is going to be superceded by some new religion? Why they must be talking about islam. The only other possibility would be that books written specifically to claim that christianity would replace judaism, contained verses claiming that christianity would replace judaism.

      Anyone who actually looks up the parts of the bible that video pretends to quote, will immediately notice that the book does not say what the video says the book says. I’m not trying to defend the bible here. It’s actually a worse book than the Qu’ran. But the case depends entirely on people not knowing what the bible says, and not looking it up. It falls apart under even the slightest examnination.

      It won’t convince anyone here that the bible or the words of Muhammed are true. But if you really want to convince anyone anywhere that Muhammed was a bible character, here’s what you’re gonna need to find: A passage in the bible that actually makes any mention of Muhammed.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2012/07/was-jesus-a-muslim/ Zanib Sajjad

        His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem Songs (5:16)

        The following is Song of Solomon 5:16 in Hebrew
        חִכֹּו֙ מַֽמְתַקִּ֔ים וְכֻלֹּ֖ו מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים זֶ֤ה דֹודִי֙ וְזֶ֣ה רֵעִ֔י בְּנֹ֖ות יְרוּשָׁלִָֽם׃
        Note the word
        מַחֲמַדִּ֑ים
        ma cha mad dim;
        in the above link, if you click on “yea he is altogether lovely”, it will show you the root of the word machmad, however the word is mistranslated to “desirable”.
        If you copy the original hebrew text
        מַחֲמַדִּ
        and paste it in SDL Free Translation and select To English, and hit the Translate button, you will see it correctly translated to Muhammad!

        • Yoav

          And if you took a second to read the other comments instead of just making the same idiotic argument again hoping no one will notice you would have noticed that I have addressed this before. In short, Hebrew and Arabic are very similar languages so the fact that Mo’s name use a root also used in Hebrew is hardly miraculous.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    The Bible was not written in Arabic, so it will not explicitly mention the Arabic name as it is, and the Bible was changed , and how many Bibles r there confronting One Holy Quran. Here is an article that explains exactly that the name Muhammad was mentioned in the Hebrew language

    http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/comparative/Muhammad_in_Hebrew.htm

    Anyways I am not here to debate as it is not the right place, I am here to prove a point that what the researcher reached to was wrong, I am a Jurispundance sharia law student, I know my Book with its full meaning in Arabic and it’s translation, the first and main purpose was Monotheism, believing in it and then acting according to it which will eventually spread justice human rights and peace to the whole world.

    Peace to all

    • Yoav

      That article is a complete nonsense. In the two verses it cite the word is not even mahmad, as he claim, but a different word of the same root and in both cases it very clearly doesn’t refer to a person’s name. In the Haggai 2:7 it appear as hemdat (חמדת), and is referring for loot coming into the temple (hamad, the verb form of the same root mean coveted). The song of Solomon instance appear as mahmadim (מחמדים) as part of a description of a man as he is all mahmadim, i.e he’s really cute, not as a reference to a name. since you know Arabic you are obviously familiar with the way both Hebrew and Arabic are constructed in which a root can be converted to different verb and noun forms that not always share a meaning.

      • Yoav

        PS: Hebrew and Arabic share a source and are still very similar so finding a word in the Hebrew bible that resemble a word in the Koran is about as surprising as finding out a politician has been taking bribes.

        • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

          A question? Wasn’t the bible translated from Hebrew? If so , it means it was wrongly translated or deliberately mistranslated!! What do u think?

          • Yoav

            Since I was talking about how the word appear in the original Hebrew, what the fukc does translations have to do with anything?

            • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

              U can be a bit more polite , & explain your point to me if I am mistaken.

            • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

              Yes I forgot to tell u something, ru serious “that translation does not have to do with anything?”

              Suppose some one mistakinly translated a wrong statement, will it not change the meaning? Come one!

            • Yoav

              Once again, what does the fact that the site, you linked to, misrepresent the original Hebrew text in order to make a claim that the bible is talking about Muhammad has anything to do with the quality of bible translations.

            • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

              The link does not misrepresent the original Hebrew text, in fact it is saying that the originl text is “Mahmad” , but was translated to English as “Altogether lovely” , so won’t this change the meaning in the Bible?

            • Yoav

              And as I pointed, the original text doesn’t actually say mahmad but use other words of the same root and that the fact that a root used in Hebrew also being used in Arabic, a closely related language, is hardly anything to write home about. If use of the root H.M.D in the bible are such an impressive proof of islam why didn’t he include the use of it in the ten commandments
              (לא תחמוד), thou shell not covet? It’s somewhat refreshing to take a break from the usual liars for jesus we get here all the time for a liar for mo.

    • Nox

      That part is true. You clearly didn’t come here for a debate. You came here intending to make a bald assertion and not have it questioned.

      One other thing you got right. The core concept of islam is “one god”. Everything else that is the islamic religion is built upon that core concept. So I’ll grant that you understand islam better than Shedinger. But it appears islam is the only thing you understand.

      If you are just trying to correct a misconception about your religion, fine. To that I say peace be upon you. But if you can only clear up that one misconception by lying about five other things, it doesn’t help your original point.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    Excuse me what other five things ? Then I did not claim that I know every thing did I ? I have a copy of the bible I read it did not finish it though, I read some information if I misunderstood some information correct it for me , u don’t have to say I am a liar.
    As for “…You came here intending to make a bald assertion and not have it questioned.” No that is not true, it seems it is the other way round, instead of answering my questions you guys are attacking me.
    And one thing you said right, Yes I understand Islam more than Shedinger.
    Anyways thank you for your high morals, at least you are better than sunny guy.
    Peace to all.

  • Moheb

    I see that Wafa is right on all counts. And each time she proves both of you wrong, you guys attack. One uses profane words in a religion discussion and the other calls her a lier. She did lie. She provided you with a video and an article that a third party is supporting her point. And you also attacked the two supporting sources. I see that you both know something and don’t what to hear others.

    • Yoav

      I have a dollar saying Moheb is a sock puppet. Just in case you’re not then I would like to point that I both used profane language and called Wafa a liar, do I get double points? Now, just because Wafa provided an article, from an islamic propaganda site, that support her (I’ll have to take your word on it, I have no idea whether she’s male or female) position doesn’t mean we have to accept what this article say unquestionably, and instead of replying to my actual comments, all Wafa did was spin some BS arguments about unrelated issue so I stand by my liar for mo conclusion until further evidence are provided for the contrary.

      • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

        I am a female Yoav, and if you want to call me a liar it is up to you , I put some proof for you in my response to Mogg, I guess you will call the former priest and Rabbi as liars too !!

  • Moheb

    I see that Wafa is right on all counts. And each time she proves both of you wrong, you guys attack. One uses profane words in a religion discussion and the other calls her a lair. She provided you with a third party video and an article that supports her point. And you also attacked the two supporting sources. I see that you both know something and don’t what to hear others. I do understand your stance though, because this touches the core belief of both Christianity and Judaism, I don’t expect you to accept it. It is easier to defend a wrongfully taught concept for centuries.

    • Mogg

      Just because you say that someone is wrong doesn’t magically make them so. You have two people here who have actually looked up the references given in both English and Hebrew and tell you that they don’t say what you want them to, but apparently that’s not enough. Sheesh.

      In answer to your question about possible mistranslation, Wafa, the Bible was written in several languages over a long period of time, and there are multiple translations of the older texts into ancient Greek as well as documents in the original languages. As a check on the translation from, say the Aramaic sections of the Old Testament, scholars can use the Greek translations as Greek is an extremely well known ancient language and see if it translates to something similar. None of this make the Bible literally true, but it is pretty well known to be quite accurately translated with relatively few ambiguities.

      • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

        Thank you for your response , that explanation is clear , now in Arabic language if there is a slight change in the diacritic symbols , that will lead to changing the whole meaning of a sentence , and since Hebrew comes from the same origin , I guess that implies too.

        Regarding “…tell you that they don’t say what you want them to, but apparently that’s not enough.”

        Sorry to say it is not enough when there is a former priest who turned to Islam says exactly what is in that article.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPZjDErZIBo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

        Also when a Jewish rabbi says that Prophet Muhammad was mentioned in the Bible, then I will take the word of a previous priest and the Jewish rabbi

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0YbC0BJ8g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

        Now I did not come here forcing Islam on any one, I tried to clear a misconception about my Relegion , nobody liked it and started attacking and mocking , which lead me to answer back .
        I thought that democracy is being open minded , accepting others as they r without attacking them, and what I see here is the contrary . And there should be at least a bit of respect for others Relegion. I do not like any body calling our Prophet (PBUH) as mo, nor that last statement Yoav said.
        I know one thing , in scientific discussions or arguments, if u differ with the other u do not attack and mock, u try to explain politely , and that is what I saw from u only, I appreciate that.

        Peace to all

        • Yoav

          The first video is just one more selective quoting and twisting of partial verses to make it look like they mean something other then they clearly say.
          In the second video, the rabbi who speak in the beginning doesn’t say Mohammed is a prophet or anything similar, all he say is that muslims , worship yhve using the term bney-noah (suns of Noah) which in judeism refer to the way non-jews will worship, as you may know Judaism isn’t an evangelical faith so it’s end time prediction is not that everyone will convert to Judaism but that the rest of the world will accept yhve as the one true god and stop worshiping other gods. All the rabbi in the video was saying is that muslims follow yhve instead of other allah being a morph of one of the old Arabian deities. the rabbi who supposedly claimed that Mo is a prophet is just a character in a story told by the guy making the video and may or may not exist.

          I thought that democracy is being open minded , accepting others as they r without attacking them, and what I see here is the contrary . And there should be at least a bit of respect for others Relegion.

          You obviously misunderstood what free speech means, you don’t get to declare your personal fairytale of limits.

          I do not like any body calling our Prophet (PBUH) as mo,

          Then you should never visit this site, it will make baby Mohammed cry.

          if u differ with the other u do not attack and mock, u try to explain politely

          I tried that, you just ignored the arguments I made and made some unrelated claims.

          • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

            Okay , thank you for everything , it seems if I bring whatever proof you will still call it claim , selective and twisting. I wonder y so many priests turn to Islam, it seems they were ignorant priests perhaps?? Did not understand the Bible properly?
            As I said before I did not come here to force Islam on anyone, just came to clear the wrong understanding of the researcher.
            As not coming back to this site, hmmmm , I got used to coming here, I will keep reading , I must learn how others think.

            But I noticed that Athiests get angry quickly, Why ?

            The SUN rises only from one place .
            Take care all, Peace

            • Sunny Day

              Don’t mistake our disappointment in you as anger.

            • Yoav

              The site I suggested you avoid is not this one but jesusandmo.net, since if you were clitching your pearls at the disrespect I was showing to Mo (PUBAH) than that one will cause your head to explode.
              You haven’t presented anything that even resembling proof and you haven’t replied to any of the comments pointing the problems in your arguments. What many priests turning to islam are you talking about, your video talk about the story of one priest, or are you talking about the claim that half the rabbis in Medina converted, in this case I wander if that happened before or after mo and hi gang massacred the jews at haybar (خيبر), and what was the effect of that on the willingness of the survivors to convert?

  • jesus a God’s prophet

    what you ignore all of you is that ISLAM existed even before Jesus birthday, in the Mohammed era, Islam has just arrived to his climax.

    • Yoav

      And the resulting ejaculation left quite a stain.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    Yoav , oh I did not notice the link , sorry for that. About my mind exploding , it will not explode don’t worry , I am used to visiting such sites , yes it might hurt me , but then I remember that I can’ t force people to stop it, at such point I just pray that they might see the truth.

    Well , about many priests turning to Islam, there r a lot , if I put them here I will flood the site , just search google and u will find them.

    And about khaybar it is a long story , and even if I say my side of the story you will not accept it.

    And sunny, well did u know me before to get disappointed now?

    Take care
    Peace

    • Yoav

      You can probably also find muslims who converted to other religions, or figured they’re all equally ridiculous and became atheists, you basically combine several common logical fallacies here including, appeal to authority, appeal to popularity and using a biased sample. Just because you can find a bunch of priests that converted to islam doesn’t mean that they know something which the much larger number of priests that didn’t convert don’t. Why don’t you try, for a change, actually responding to the arguments instead of making pointless claims and whine about being persecuted by the mean atheists?

      • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

        The number of Muslims being atheists r just a few , and that is because of their ignorance of their relegion, they think if some Muslims act in a crooked way that Islam itself is like that.

        on the other side Christians and atheists turning to Islam reach to thousands if not millions.
        That is the problem with a lot of people, they judge Islam by actions of Ignorant Muslims, who do not act according to Islam, then come people like you who do not read or know about Islamic law and judge Islam according to these ignorant ones.

        Yoav , u r contradicting yourself, first you told me that I came here for a hidden purpose like propagating for my Relegion . And to prove that I did not come here for that I am avoiding to answer some questions, and now you are asking me to respond to the arguments here, which if I answer again you will not accept.

        You accuse us Muslims that we do not take no for an answer , but it seems the other way round.

        So now tell me exactly which argument do you want me to respond to?
        About Khaybar & Mecca or what exactly?

        And I am not whining Yoav , I just expect that there is respect in a site that as I see have a place for all Relegions and beliefs and non beliefs, or am I mistaken ?

        • trj

          The number of Muslims being atheists r just a few , and that is because of their ignorance of their relegion

          Or maybe it’s because atheists in Islamic countries tend to be shunned, beaten up or murdered by their fellow contrymen. There aren’t many Islamic countries where it doesn’t have serious consequences to your life, health or personal freedom to proclaim your atheism.

          they think if some Muslims act in a crooked way that Islam itself is like that.

          Islam is exactly the problem in this case.

          • Custador

            The penalty for apostasy in Shariah law is death. I’m sure the Christian taliban in the West would enjoy the same privilege if it was offered to them, because let’s face it, they’re all utter twunt-bags stamped out of the same twunt-bag mold.

            • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

              In Egypt just recently, after mubaraks fall, a Christian family embraced Islam father , mother and children willingly, what happened to them??

              They were burned alive in their house by Christian citizens , without giving them even chance to save themselves. And those Christians are now free not judged because there was no Governement then. And this is not the only family, many faced the same destiny , but your media never talks about it.

              While in Islam it is not the right of any citizen to do this with his own hand, he must be sent to the judge first and trialed and it depends on the judge ruling if he gets executed or not.
              And if any Muslim killed another Muslim for leaving his Relegion by his own hand then that other muslim will be trialed and might be sentenced to death because it was not his right to do so.
              So just stop accusing the Sharia Law with wrong accusations.
              I wonder why you do not see what is happening in Arakan by the Burmese democratic Governement , they are burning Muslims alive , and cooking them on fire alive just as if they are cooking a goat or cow, but then it is okay to kill millions of helpless defenseless humans, just because they are Muslims.

            • Yoav

              While in Islam it is not the right of any citizen to do this with his own hand, he must be sent to the judge first and trialed and it depends on the judge ruling if he gets executed or not.

              So you agree that converting from islam can get someone executed, do you really think it matter to the person at the sharp end if the sword currently chopping his head off is wield by a vigilantly or by a duly appointed executioner.
              A recent example is Alexander Aan who was beaten by a mob (so this happen as well) and then put in jail by the Indonesian court for the horrible crime of being openly atheist.

              In Egypt just recently, after mubaraks fall, a Christian family embraced Islam father , mother and children willingly, what happened to them??

              They were burned alive in their house by Christian citizens , without giving them even chance to save themselves.

              they are burning Muslims alive , and cooking them on fire alive just as if they are cooking a goat or cow,

              but then it is okay to kill millions of helpless defenseless humans, just because they are Muslims.

              No, but what does that have to do with the question of whether or not islam is anything other then a bunch of fairy tales, just like judaism, christianity and every other religion?

            • Yoav

              HTML fail and I also forgot to add “citation needed” after the story of muslims being cooked.

            • trj

              So let me get this straight. If a Muslim is sentenced to death before a judge for apostacy that’s ok with you?

        • Sunny Day

          When you offer someone the choice between Cake or Death, you don’t get to brag about all the people who want your cake.

          • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

            Again all your replies are judgmental , without knowing the correct rules in Islamic law. I wonder sunny why all those who wants our cake didn’t think the same way you guys did , and accepted it willingly especially in Europe and USA , no one forced them or followed them with a stick, and all the accusations you have against Islam have been answered by scholars more than once, but then you keep repeating them, because if you accepted it, it means you will not be an atheist any more.
            Anyways as I said before , I did not come here to change whatever you beleive in, or throw lectures or debates.
            But one thing I know, if a person wants to seek truth , he will keep seeking for it until God leads him to the right path, and those who do not will and happy as they are, they will never discover the truth.

            • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

              And you know, nothing in this world comes just like that from nowhere or without reason, humans r not fungus, they did not just pop out from no where. Even fungus or mushrooms will not come out from the soil if there is no rain.

              And I would like to thank Yoav a lot, because all those writings about Hebrew, added to my knowledge, and I have more proof than before.

              Peace to all

            • Jabster

              Honestly Wafa just fuck off with your judgementally crap and stupid arguements … every single post you’ve written is basically complete bollocks. You’re thick, you’re brainwashed, you’re an idiot – so just accept it. That’s the hand life has dealt you and the sooner you realise that the better.

              p.s. Did I mention just fuck off – that’s F-U-C-K O-F-F … see it’s not that difficult is it?

        • Yoav

          Even if your numbers are 100% accurate (what is your source?) that is not a proof of islam being true, just because something is popular doesn’t mean it’s worth anything (case in point: “reality” TV). You say downtread that you learned something new but you completely ignored the point I was making about the Hebrew text, that is that the actual words used in the text are not the words claimed to be used and that the presence of words similar to Arabic in a Hebrew text is not something that require any supernatural intervention due to the overall similarity between the two languages.
          Khaybar is just an example to the issue also raised by Sunny and Custador, when the options are convert to my religion out of your own free will, or I will kill you, does it really count as people converting out of their own free will?

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    Jabster, Thank you

    • Jabster

      Does that mean you’re going to fuck off Wafa or does that mean you’re going to continue to post the same old bollocks, have it pointed out to you that it’s the same old bollocks so you can then post a different the same old bollocks?

      • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

        Jabster , to you it is bollocks, to me it is not, the conversation was between me and Yoav , he is asking questions I am answering back, what is wrong with you why are you so angry, where is the freedom of speech. Oh dear

        • Jabster

          I’m not angry, I’m just pointing out that you’re and idiot and your posts are bollocks … do you not think that freedom of speech allows that?

          As for answering back … read your fucking posts you idiot – no you’re not. You’re a fucking idiot – get used to it as you have one life and that’s what it holds for you.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    Yoav , I understood your point beleive me, but if I talk more , others will get angry asking me to … Off , and I talked enough , I honestly did not come here intending to write all I did, just responding to accusations , and defending my belief just as you defend yours. But it seems that the word “democracy” does not apply here..

    The proof of my number is a video made by a Christian not an Arab or Muslim, I don’t have the link right now, but if you are interested to see it , I can search it up for you.

    • Jabster

      No you haven’t understood the point you fucking idiot … you just don’t like it that someone questions the bollocks you post. Now fuck off.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    Yoav link u asked for about rohingyas

    http://resbikt.blogspot.com/2012/07/blog-post_15.html

    There are some pictures there might not be of the rohingyas the blogger took some pictures that were spread as for rohingyas , but I assure you the one with embryos and the woman is for the rohingyas, the site is in Arabic I think there is a translation for the blogg.

  • http://saba2ek.net/ Wafa Jafar

    This is the official link for rohingyas just in case you did not like the Arabic one

    http://www.rohingya.org/portal/

  • Mogg

    Wafa, seeing as you don’t appear to believe that your videos are all so far short of adequate as evidence as to be laughable, I am going to give you a verse-by-verse context of the original video you linked to, which was supposedly proof of the existence of Islam in the Bible. While I was never a priest, rest assured that I had 20 years of Bible study and hold some formal qualifications in the area, so I know what I’m talking about. All my references are from the New International Version of the Bible, seeing as that’s what I have handy. I don’t read Hebrew, so I’ll defer to Yoav’s comments on that. Also remember that as a non-believer, I don’t think that anything here is actually true, I’m just giving a fuller context to point out that your particular version of reading the Bible is extremely poor. Mind you, probably not any poorer than many Christian readings I’ve had the misfortune to experience, but we shall see.

    To everyone else, Wall of Biblical Text warning!

    First verse referenced: Deuteronomy 32:2 – referred to in the video as a prophecy about Mohammed conquering Mecca. In the Bible, the chapter is specifically titled ‘Moses Blesses the Tribes’, and the context is Moses’ final words to the tribes of Israel before his death. In other words, _nothing_ to do with Islam, Mohammed or Mecca, and no reason to take the verse as a prophecy about anyone except the Israelites.

    Second verse referenced: Deut. 18:18 – the NIV version reads “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.” In other words, a case of choosing your translation to suit your own purposes. I have seen this many times within Christian circles, so it doesn’t surprise me that an ex-Christian Muslim would do it as well. It doesn’t impress me as something I should pay any attention to. The question the video make asked was “is this about Jesus or Mohammed?” I would personally suspect, given that it is known historically that Deuteronomy was probably heavily edited around the 5th century BC, that it refers to neither, but is about all the Old Testament prophets of Israel. I can’t see any reason why Jesus couldn’t be prophet as well as the son of God, if you happen to believe in that kind of thing, though – after all, a prophet is someone who tells the future, and Jesus did that according to the Gospels. There’s no rule that says a prophet can’t also be a supernatural being.

    Third verse referenced: Deut. 18:19 – anyone can say they speak in the name of God. So what?

    Fourth verse referenced: Is:29:12 – finding illiterate people was not exactly hard for most of human history. It’s still not that hard today. The challenge, historically, would have been to find someone who was literate. There’s no reason to think that this has anything to do with Mohammed. According to the context of the whole chapter, the whole point was that nobody in Zion, that is Jerusalem, would understand the prophecy because they were all due a smacking from God, so he wasn’t going to let anyone understand it and potentially escape the punishment to come. Historically, the context was the Babylonian and Assyrian empires conquering the whole Middle East and the destruction of the independent nation of Israel about 1200 years before Mohammed’s time.

    Fifth verse referenced: John 1:20, 21 – was a statement by John the Baptist, not Jesus. Whoever the Jews were waiting for makes no particular difference, and in any case Jesus stated that John the Baptist was, in fact, the prophesied Elijah. Remembering, of course, that all of these mythological figures are exactly that, myths, and the myth of The Prophet seems to have been conveniently forgotten by Christians, while as far as I am aware the Jews are still waiting. Or maybe The Prophet and The Messiah can be the same person. Nobody really knows. If you want to claim Mohammed is The Prophet, go right ahead, but there really isn’t much biblical grounds for you to do so. This appears to be about the best support for your thesis, and it ain’t much.

    Sixth verse referenced: Matt. 21:43 – generally interpreted in the Christian world as meaning that the grace of God was to be taken from the Israelite law-keepers who were doing it wrong, and made available for anyone who wanted it and would “produce fruit” that is, be holy. The context given by the whole chapter is that it was a condemnation of the Jewish Pharisees. Hard to see a reference to Mohammed there.

    Seventh verse referenced: John 16:7 – so Christians believe the refers to the Holy Spirit, which according to the biblical book of Acts did not come to the believers until 40 days after Jesus’ return to Heaven and, in contrast to the video’s commentator had not already come when this statement was made. You believe it refers to Mohammed. No particular reason to interpret it either way, but it’s a much, much longer bow to draw to make it mean “Mohammed is coming”, given that the New Testament later on interprets this as meaning the Holy Spirit. In fact, given that John was the last of the Gospels to be written, it is possible that this verse was made up as a confirmation of what the first century church already believed about the Holy Spirit, but there’s no real way of knowing that.

    Last verse referenced: 1 John 4:1 – I don’t think that this was meant as a definitive proof of the validity of prophets, only a first test. I personally think there was a physical (“in the flesh”) person or persons on whom the legend of Jesus Christ was built, and I’m certainly no prophet.

    Summary: Followers of Mohammed are as prone to misquoting, cherry-picking and twisting the Bible to say what they want as followers of Jesus are. I’m not impressed.

  • Mogg

    Oh, and in a further comment on John 16:7, I can’t see how any woman would find the teachings of Mohammed on women ‘comforting’, which in my mind at least excludes Mohammed from being someone called ‘The Comforter’.

  • ahmed

    Yes, Jesus was a Muslim Muslims believe in it.And not only Christ, but all the prophets and the apostles were Muslims.Islam is the message.The message of God is one.Multiplicity of the Apostles, but one message from God.Worship God alone.Mark your whole life to service this doctrine and do what you can to save people from hell

    • Nox

      No one prior to Muhammed was a muslim. Muslims appropriated previous prophets, and claimed they had proclaimed islam. The same way christians appropriated those same jewish prophets as christian. They may have all technically been talking about the god of Abraham, but muslims, jews and christians say completely contradictory things about their one god. At least two of these groups (all three in reality, but only two by this rule) are wrong or lying.

      From the same logic by which you call Jesus muslim, I could say that Muhammed was mormon.

      • UrsaMinor

        Yes, Nox, but then you always have had a tendency to blaspheme. :)

      • Jesus is not a religious person

        You are right!

  • Jesus is not a religious person

    Mr. Shedinger, you need to read more about Islam to see the difference between it and Christianity!
    Don’t let others tell you about Islam, go and read the Quran and Hadeth to see what is Islam..
    You have to recognize the suffer of Arab Christians because of Islam!!

    And Islam denied the crucifixion, so where are the common things between these two??

  • hamza

    salam alaycom evry one WAS JESUS A MUSLIM ok that a big qestion because we know in islam we can’t be a muslim if we don’t believe jesus we know that jesus was a messenger of god but we don’t believe that jesus was a god HELL NO , i have a qestion evry one spesiale for the christen if you want to be a muslim just like jesus find me in facebook Personal details redacted.

    • trj

      Claiming Jesus was a Muslim is like claiming Columbus was an astronaut.

    • Yoav

      Who is this christen and why would they want to be a muslim?

    • Sunny Day

      The only reason I would find you on facebook would be to mock you. Judging from the news articles on TV about Muslims I would expect you to go apeshit and threaten to kill me.

    • Custador

      Pro tip: Islam is 800 years old. Christianity is 2000 years old. So no. Even assuming he actually existed at all, Jesus was not a Muslim.

      • UrsaMinor

        Correction: Islam is only (approximately) 800 years old if you’re working in base 16. The decimal number is closer to 1400. But despite this, your point does stand. :)

  • Chetan Kumar

    Hi Guys,

    Why the hell we are fighting and arguing on our religion? Be it Christian or Muslim…..all teach us same lesson……BELIEVE IN ONE GOD!! RIGHT.
    Proving one right and other wrong, is not what God wants us to do……we should be good human being by heart and love our neighbors as our self…., we have got 1 life in this earth…..no one has come to us after death saying/proving that there is eternal life (except our holy books), please use this life in good cause, rather proclaiming religion. REMEMBER WE ARE BORN OUT OF SIN and we have no right to prove what is right or wrong.

    Regards,
    Chetan.

    • Kodie

      Because people with a loose grip on reality think that’s a good reason to act like dicks to other people and expect to be respected for it. Also these people want schools to stop teaching reality.

      • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2012/07/was-jesus-a-muslim/ Zanib Sajjad

        Um, people should actually discuss this kind of stuff, in a good maner. As for who cares about christianity or islam, that is like saying jesus is god, or god is god, who cares?? ‘Lets just love our neighbours’ good point, we should love our neighbours and all, but remember, god didn’t make us so that we ignore him all together. There can’t be more then one religion that is right, because we all believe diferent things. But if you don’t care, then that’s your problem. If there does end up being a god, then you’ll probably be in huge trouble. Right?

        • Sunny Day

          Fuck your manners.

        • Kodie

          Nope. There doesn’t end up being a god because he’s made up. I hear a lot of people claim that god is real, but no proof, no evidence, just a lot of telling people what their god said to do and we all have to do it, says who? Says PEOPLE. They can’t think of a good reason that everyone should do this or that arbitrary thing, and they can’t hold up their argument so why would I believe them when they talk about god being real? I know enough to rule that out, definitely enough to rule out that any person claims to know what he wants me to do. Why is it so important to you if I join your cult? You believe something that feels real to you but more importantly it is the satisfaction you get out of belonging to a group and inventing someone who loves you no matter what and threatens you like you’re a child to do “good,” like hate people unless they agree with your delusions. Also a factor, ignorance breeds in these groups. If someone tells you science is a conspiracy to lead you away from god, maybe they are right. Anything that causes you to doubt this childish nonsense would put you in danger of losing it. There’s only something wrong with that if you’ve also been made to loathe yourself like they tell you to do, and are frightened to the core of your bones to lose “salvation” which you don’t really have anyway. I am wording this in Christian terms, but I sense you are smart enough to work it out to Islam or Hindu or whatever parts apply to Buddhism or Paganism, etc. Reality isn’t that bad, since you actually live in it and cope pretty well enough I imagine.

  • Irfan Afridi

    Question for Kodie :
    why are you denying The God??


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